@@nd_0176 I personally hate the Star Hawk but that's largely because it's an awful carrier design if your goal is to be anything except a Star Fox 64 boss. It's not a bad looking ship but putting the launch bay in the nose is a horrible idea.
What bothers me is how underpowered the resistance was. Their predecessors, the alliance struggled to collect manpower and materials. That I can understand since it was a collection of cells unifying. But Leia formed this group as a paramilitary essentially. They should’ve had more from the get go. I’d even believe if they were a well funded branch of the new republic intelligence service instead.
The way I see it, if they wanted it to be the Rebellion still fighting the Empire then it should have been ROTJ cut the head off the snake, but the Empire didn't actually fall and remains the primary force in the galaxy. That would serve to fix a good bit. All the celebrating happening at the end of ROTJ could be just before the Empire regroups and the hammer comes down
@@RealSensationalBeing Wasn't that the original plan anyway? There was supposed to be a massive last stand at the end of the Civil War taking place in Coruscant.
@@pugasaurusrex8253What continuity are we going to? Before or after Disney? Before Disney it read to me like the Empire didn't put up very much of a fight until Thrawn went into action. After Disney, for some reason the Empire's last stand is beyond Coruscant, which is another thing I never understood. But anyway, the Empire's ability to hold Coruscant in my proposal could theoretically break the Rebellion's momentum in the war. And if we keep Snoke (which I also have my better canon for) then we have someone for the Empire to rally to in order to remain intact after the loss of the Emperor.
@@RealSensationalBeing Before Disney they put up a pretty good fight actually. The whole Rogue Squadron series is about the reorganized New Republic like a year or two after Endor fighting against the primary Imperial Warlord. There's a whole pretty large battle in space around Coruscant before she retreats leaving a plague behind that was cured by Bacta. Which she indirectly controlled the supply of so the Empire got rich off of the New Republic dealing with a plague on its new capital. Thats just one series but my point is there were several major wars and campaigns that the New Republic fought against the Imperial Remnants. Thrawn's campaign was just the largest of them. There was a ton of infighting though in the old canon which did weaken them a lot. Primarily in the outer and mid rim. The core worlds afaik were conquered in that campaign primarily fought in the rogue squadron series. Also also, there were mass rebellions I think in the old canon, once it became clear the rebellion had a solid chance of winning. But they did put up a fight. Quite a few super star destroyer engagements proves that
Leia Organa: "We need your help!" Everyone in the Galaxy: "We sleep." Lando Calrissian: "I need your help." Everyone in the Galaxy: *"WE ARE ON OUR WAY, COMRADE!"*
@@2pumpedupforu The alternative (assuming of course the 2 people who ask remain the same) would be Lando asking and not being heard. Which would be racism.
In each of Prequel episodes we saw numerous of completely new ship designs, while in Sequel episodes it's the same TIE Fighters and X-Wings (slightly modified)
well, when TFA was made, people on the internet were screaming how bad the prequel designs are and that they hate them and that they want X-Wings and Tie-Fighters back.
Disney owns those designs for marketing, they can resell old stock without having to go through a new toy process, and they don't have to pay new designers for their models. There is a reason they didn't licence out a razorcrest model until the 3rd season of The Mandelorean was announced, they didn't want to take a risk on a new product line (Baby Yoda was a proven hit because OG Yoda was hit, therefore the same thing again is also a guaranteed hit). Disney runs on spreadsheets and market predictions, not creativity or risk.
@@littlekong7685 so in other words, disney is a business lol maybe they'd be more open to taking risks if people didn't react to anything new with ridiculous levels of rage and hate lol
@@littlekong7685 I think its not about takins risks, but lack of imagination. Prequel era ships were super cool both on screen and as toys. Cool new ships for Sequels would also sell well in stores, I think.
@@Olochgu I get it. But why did they have to ALL be X-Wings in The Force Awakens? Even the original Star Wars in 1977 had two types of fighters for the Rebels. The solution is simple. Have half the ships be X-Wings and put Poe in one. Have the rest be a smattering of Y-Wings, A-Wings, and B-Wings plus, one new design in the same sort of industrial style. You still have it be focused on nostalgia, but you also have the variety so the squadrons don't look so sanitized for what's supposed to be a motley fleet.
I don't hate sequel stuff a lot but Resistance's lack of an original identity was a big problem. The First Order had the advantage of cool redesigns that even though originated from the Empire looked different enough to make them somewhat unique
I think we were robbed. Could have rolled out the E-Wing much earlier (or later depending on your point of view), made it the successor to the X-Wing, or at least made it a major presence in the Resistance Fleet, given us something new(ish), AND payed homage to Legends. It deserved more than the glorified cameo it got in Ashoka.
I find it very hard to believe that Filloni would invest the production time and resources to bring the E-Wing to life just for a single scene appearance.
I'm fine with the X-Wing being given the biggest role since it and the TIE are easily the most iconic fighters. But it would have been nice to get more variety. Especially in The Force Awakens.
@@JonSmith-hk1bqBut that makes the galaxy seem stagnant. Let me give you an example, Star Trek has multiple ships named the USS Enterprise but they look different. Compare the original Enterprise from TOS to the Enterprise-D from TNG they are distinct ships.
@@emberfist8347 That's not exactly true. Star Trek re-used many ships. I believe the Enterprise and Enterprise-A even shared a model. The Miranda and Excelsior classes plus Klingon Birds of Prey were from Kirk's time and remained in heavy use through the Dominion War. And that's a lot less time than between RotJ and TFA. Like I said, I didn't mind returning to the iconic designs of the Original Trilogy. I just wish they had more variety than X-Wings vs. TIE Fighter in TFA.
@@KRobinson-ko1neomg, you're right! Han's first ship is a box, and Leia's little shuttle is a box. It's such a box, I couldnt tell which end was the front. Stormtroopers also travel in boxes
@@histguy101 JJ apparently had a HUGE role in the ship designs pretty much up until the last movie when they had the studio build that fleet from scratch at the last minute (When there just wasn't time to micromanage them). He apparently likes boxes. He wanted the Klingon ships to be boxes but paramount wouldn't let him.
@@histguy101The last two at least had some cool ideas. The Resistance ship was a Chinook turn on its side while the First Order one was clearly based on the LCVP and Marine Corps amphibious assault ships.
The issue I always had was the ships never evolving despite it being around 2 decades after the OT. The leap in tech from WWII (which the OT was based around) to Vietnam was huge. And George designed ships in the PT to look like natural evolutions to what comes in the OT. In Star Wars the PT Y wings were covered since the republic was well funded. The rebels were using scraps so it made sense for them to look less new. In the ST only the X wing looked like a natural evolution with new engines at least. All other fighters even in the First Order were just reskins for the most part when neither the New Republic or First Order were lacking in funds to make ship upgrades. Demilitarizing the Republic was beyond dumb, and probably to make them weaker than they should have been and an excuse to have less new designs. But It especially doesn’t make sense for the First Order to not upgrade when the Empire lost the conflict and all they did was keep old designs.
With the first order it makes sense since their entire ideology is about fetishizing the old empire and its iconography, so most of the improvements are below the surface (giving ties better weapons and proper shields, building star destroyers with shorter more well protected bridges and an auxiliary bridge deep within the hull so they can’t be knocked out easily by targeting the main bridge). The resistance on the other hand mainly just uses the old ships since that’s basically all they can get their hands on, scraps and hand outs. Why there’s nothing new or interesting is a question for lucasfilm
Still tho, why weren’t there mass production TIE Defenders? And why didn’t the Resistance use “obsolete” E Wings or B Wing Mk2’s? It’s a major missed opportunity no matter how you rationalize it.
Today the F15 and F16 are over 50 years old and still in common service across the world receiving upgrades, The B52 is over 70 years old. Its pretty consistent overall and on a galactic scale it would probably be the same or even slower with time, distance, money and paperwork inflating the numbers by massive margins.
Late Rebel Alliance: at open war, holds territory, has a combat fleet that the Empire is genuinely worried about. Late Resistance: about 200 people on a single planet.
I always felt that star wars is in a very weird stage right now where theyre almost scared to to tell new stories in fear of alienating old fans or scaring away new fans. I'm probably wrong, but I feel like the stories really havent changed since I was a kid.
Its not that theyre scared its that they wanted to bank off of nostalgia which is cheap but effective in the short term in getting ppl to watch your stuff. And they're still trying to capitalize on it with baby yoda and boba fett. Imo thats what it is anyways. God I fucking hate baby yoda
I hadn't thought about Rise of Skywalker in a while, my heart sank a bit at seeing shots of the Battle of Exegol. As a Star Wars fan, I feel like I have enormous tolerance for goofy and weird stories set in the universe. I wasn't expecting Disney to come up with stuff that felt so bland and soulless.
Stores weren't selling anything unique to the Sequels even when TFA came out, they had OG Yoda and Vader. There just isn't anything noteworthy about the new Star Wars content that isn't the fluke that was the combo of Mando and Grogu. Heck, even Thrawn for how iconic he looks is nowhere near as interesting as the casts of either the Prequel or Original Trilogy.
my head cannon is that what disney is making the resistance Y-wing was created in the NR era more for sector forces who were used to using the old Y-wing but needed an updated model, while the true sequel to the y-wing is something like ec henry's design. Same for the b-wing
I can imagine that the same craft, at least upgraded versions, would still be in service. Jet fighters from the 1960s were in service in a number of second tier militaries up until recently, in particular the F-4 Phantom and MiG-21. Slightly newer fighters from the 70s and 80s are not only still in front line service, but with upgrades, aren't likely to go out of service any time soon, see the F-15, F-16, F-18, MiG-29, and the various Flanker variants. And don't even get me _started_ on the B-52.
Civil War era designs being present in smaller faction militaries makes a ton of sense, and therefore being present in small quantities in some paramilitary group also makes a degree of sense. Emphasis on small. But tbh I disagree with the frontline NR stuff being from that era too just cuz the US and Russian military cant stop using cold war era shit. That's for several reasons. Costs to design new things, politics which is probably a big one, super long development times. The F22 should honestly have become our main fighter. And the F35 will eventually most likely replace the F15, F16, and F22. But yeah it took like fucking 20 years to develop the F22 and like 15 to develop the F35. Hard to replace things when development programs are that long. And so so so overbudget. Thats like the motto of the US military procurement programs. Too long and too expensive. The army has tried to replace the Abrams and its SPGs multiple times and 113s and shit and the programs all failed. Likewise the Navy's programs to replace their stuff have also mostly failed. My point is that the reason the US military uses upgraded cold war era equipment isn't really cuz its good and they like it and in all honestly probably shouldn't be emulated in a story. You certainly dont want to emulate the Russian military and its use of non-upgraded cold war era shit either lol. A lack of reason is also involved. Russia hasn't been a serious near-peer threat for awhile and the middle east ofc isn't. Now that China is a real threat the entire military is suddenly like oh fuck all our shit is super old and shitty. Like across the board the US military is trying to get new models. New rifles, new tanks, new helicopters, new fighters, new tankers, new bombers, new destroyers, new carriers, new arty, new missiles. Everything is getting replaced as quickly as they can manage it cuz yeah shit from the 70s and 80s is still in service but holy hell it shouldn't be. God I legit used a tank from Vietnam in the army in the late 2010s. The AVLB. Shittiest fucking thing ever
The newest B-52 airframe is at least 60 years old. And while they aren't combat craft, the KC-135 and C-130 designs are in the same ballpark in terms of original entry to service.
Yes but still, not all of them are still used today. This is what bothers me in Star Wars, there isn't one original ship in the whole resistance. Imagine going to a dogfight using a F-15 while your opponent have a F-35.
No first world nation uses the F-4 or MiG-21 anymore as they are obsolete even as target drones. The MiG-29 and F-15 are also being phased out for newer designs like the Su-57 and F-35 respectively. The issue in the Sequels there are no clearer newer designs to phase out the old.
@@GoranXIIBut most of those in service aren’t the same craft that flew all those years ago. Comparing a Vietnam C-130 to a modern Super Hercules is apples to oranges.
Even the fucking animated series has good designs! Yeah the Tie Baron is basically an interceptor, but it’s still got a more unique shape! The curved instead of angled wings, the cut outs on the back of the wing, it’s unique!
I find it hilarious that the Empire managed to crank out such legends as the Defender, Avenger, Oppressor and Phantom whilst the New Order - decades later - somehow managed to regress to the old, crappy basic models that their predecessors had phased out of service for being so helplessly obsolete.
Based on irl history, after WWII, the world market was filled with prop fighters and bombers that were not needed and were increasingly outdated by newer jet aircraft, so basically they ended up in the hands of every post-colonial country, some until the 1970s.
Sure, but the thing there is that they were *outdated* and were used by places that couldn't afford, or didn't need, cutting edge stuff. Unless the point of the Sequel Trilogy is that this is some backwater dispute instead of a fight with major repercussions on the galaxy
@@austinreed7343 Yeah, but we love the shows because they feel important and have a good plot, the sequels just feel completely irrelevant and basically meaningless. Maybe if they were shows instead, with proper build up and good lore they'd be great.
Hell, the B-wing was barely in it for no reason. Its the OT ship that most acceptable to make front and center in the ST since its got 3 seconds of screen time in 6 and is very unique.
The Y-Wing part "even adding little surprises for enemy fighters" made me imagine that some rebels got a hold of old buzz droids, releasing a swarm of them to completely dismantle several elite tie fighter squads who have never even seen anything like it. Absolutely terrifying
Well, an A-Wing did participate in the Death Star run and, along with a Y-Wing, drew the majority of TIE Fighters off of Lando and Wedge so they could complete the run. It was Tycho Celchu back when the EU was still a thing if I recall.
Well destroying the flagship of the enemy is a big deal. And it wasn’t 9/11ing it was more akin to the B-25 that tried to crashed into the Akagi at Midway.
@@sethb3090 The R-22 Spearhead (A-Wings weren't invented yet so it would be an R-22) were coming from independent spacers who joined the Rebellion it was popular among them.
The Y-Wing is my favorite Star Wars ship probably ever. If they just wanted to use all the classic ships they should have gone all out and embraced it. Instead they don't use Y-Wings that much if at all and don't give them any screen time.
For me while I like the Y-Wing removing it made sense. It was already obsolescent during the Galactic Civil War-era and the B-Wing was designed to replace it in the Alliance. To give some context in Legends, the Y-Wing was out of frontline service by the time of the Yuuzhan Vong invasion 25 years after Yavin which made all the spaceframes at least 40 years old. The X-Wing was still in service but it wasn’t the same model as the ones from the OT and the New Republic had many many newer craft in their inventory too.
@@emberfist8347 The A wing and X wing were obsolete as well that's why they made a redesign, dude. Instead of the T-65B X-Wing it's gone over to the T-70 and now even the T-85. They made a redesign of the Y Wing as well but they just didn't really put them in the movies unless they "technically" snuck them in the background of that ugly fleet battle in the 9th movie.
Really enjoy this laid back, conversational style for some videos. The co-learning approach gets my brain going in all the ways that make me love Star Wars. Never even heard of the D-Wing or The Razor Assault Ship The latter being especially inspiring. It reminds me of a canted T-16 Skyhopper, which to this day is one of my favorite "Star Wars-y" designs.
Except in the opening crawl of Force Awakens it says the Resistance has direct support from the New Republic. - "With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE." So the whole unsanctioned resistance idea is a little loose and kind of tacked on later after the Last Jedi. So the resistance still was using Republic credits to source all of their fighters in the end.
The Republic was also something like 5 planets in 2 star systems too... and ALL of the Republic capitals got blown up at once leaving no government, no industry, and no military. And they had also apparently completely demilitarized 2 years after Endor while still fighting Imperial remnants who also spontaneously demilitarized at the same time?
What drives me crazy the most is that EC Henry made many custom updated designs which manage to combine the fuzzy nostalgia with feeling of in-universe progress and worldbuilding
So you're telling me Disney's explanation for lack of creativity in ship design is a cash grab both in and out of universe? Damn they do not understand irony do they
I like the idea that Y-wing engines are big conventional engines for the purpose of being a planetary quick reaction force. Y-wings are the Saab JAS 39 Gripen of Star Wars. When someone rolls up to your planet looking for a fight you need to go up and go fast, pop off, then get back to do it all over again. Anyone rolling up to a planet would need to bring a ground invasion force, meaning big ships rather than only small fighters. The Y-wing can be seen as a reaction to the Naboo blockade from the Phantom Menace: everyone suddenly understood: "omg, we need to be able to fight back if something like that happens to us." ... end head-cannon.
I definitely see the slight upgrades to the ships making sense from an in universe perspective. Although I could also see several of the original models in the resistance or some Z-95 Headhunters or E-Wings.
Where was the New Republic in the sequels? That is so stupid a literal remnant of the empire led by one warlord (Hux) was able to take over the entire Galaxy in the span of a week (after their homebase, most of their fleet, and everyone on Starkiller was destroyed and killed no less). Almost as crazy as Rey being the most powerful Jedi the galaxy had ever seen in the span of a week as well. The Star wars Galaxy in the sequels felt so small, might as well have been a minor skirmish compared to the scale of the Clone wars.
We started the trilogy with the Resurgence class, then it was pretty much downhill from there to the ISD-I with a dong class. We had fairly good smaller capital ships! Why did everything else have suck so much!? We had the Chiss clawcraft, the Eclipse, World Devastators, a metric ton of abandoned concept arts, and EU background ships! Why did we end up with an 8km long pizza slice, with repainted TIE/Ins, and a direct scaled up ISD-I with a DONG!!!? (I do like having X-wings though.... Y-wings at that pushing a bit too much for my taste.)
The lazy stardong was because JJ literally had no plans and the CGI department had to make something up on the fly, last minute, with no heads up, using ONLY listed, licensed Disney pre-approved designs (That already had a toy line in production). This severely limited their options in style, and probably affected their crappy scaling decisions. They didn't use legacy designs because it means less profit for Disney, since many of those designers retain some right to those designs and could ask for money (That Disney famously doesn't pay anyways).
@@littlekong7685Really because in the Prequel era George would show up one day tell the crew to make a pickup truck with guns and they would produce the Gian Speeder.
They could have had the Tie Hunter from Rogue Squadron which was basically a Tie with X-Wings and a shield. Instead we get a "Sith" Tie Fighter with Dorito wings that serves no purpose compared to a regular Tie Fighter and isn't even an upgrade from the Tie Interceptor
At least Disney gave us the T-70 and the Resistance bomber. The Xyston destroyer -now that is true laziness. The big cannon is fine, but the fact that they literally upscaled the ISD model, and didn't bother changing the proportionate size of any of its components...I could do that myself in 3D software in about 2 minutes.
Honestly, as much as I hate to say it, it does make some sense. Look at the F-15. The fighter has been in service for well over 30 years. Yes, it's not the same model, but unless you have a big plane buff, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between the F-15A and the modern F-15EX. While I wish they came up with new fighters, the idea of just updating proven models is a good idea. However, the first order has no excuse for still using a fighter that has been proven to be infective. The first order needed a new design desperately, and all we got was a recolour.
Sure, but the difference is that we have the previous 30 years before the f15 to look at, planes in 1942 were very different, even if you want to say hey that's an extreme jump, even if you use the 20 years earlier in universe the republics desighns put into the empire and rebels were changed to make them more distinctive and make them flow better, it doesn't make sense that the resistance has the same exact ship lineup, except for a transport that would be hell to fly in, and a brick wall called a bomber
@calebbarnhouse496 I'm not saying that they shouldn't have more variety in their starfighters. They definitely should. I'm just trying to use a real-world example of a fighter sticking around for decades to give context. I mean, they still use the same half century old bomber design. Sometimes it's really just if it ain't broken, don't fix it. Saying that the fact that the new Republic demilitarised shortly after the end of the war, it does make some sense why we don't see more variety. As dumb as it is, they have given a reason. And you could also say since most if not all of the resistance leaders will have been rebels, them going for fighter they now work over new designs is plausible, but I agree they should have been more variety. Odd you didn't mention anything about the first order lacking variety in its starfighers?
@@supernaturalstudies6736 well because I wanted depth to width, I went all in on the resistance because there new ideas have been shit, the first order have one new idea, kylo rens ship, and that thing is pretty sweet, oh yea and I think there was a unique transport on the last jedi battle scene, but I don't care about that cause I don't remember much about ut
@calebbarnhouse496 okay, fair. The transports are okay, but silly, they have the opening ramp at the front, sending the troopers staight into enemy fire. If it was the empire, it'd be fine since they can lose a few troops, no problem, but the first order need every trooper they can get, I think it's just silly. I don't like Kylo's fighter, again its just another tie. Is it better, yes, but then why not make it the standard, why stick with the objectively worse tie figher. They keep trying to make the tie fighter work, and they just don't. I can't think of one-time ties that have proven themselves to effective bur for some reason, imperials can seem to stop using them.
@@supernaturalstudies6736 I actually forgot about that first order transport, I think the one I was talking about was closer to a lamda then that one, having said that I liked the front facing ramp, it's dumb, but it fits the idea that the soldiers exist to fight and the first order doesn't care about them
As we all know if a military vehicle gets legendary status it will continue to he used for decades That’s why the US military continues to roll out new versions of the M4 Sherman tank and continues to fly the P51 Mustang
The US Air Force is still operating 150 F-15C Eagles, a 45-year-old fighter. Actually they're working on retiring the F-15C this decade, and are planning to replace most of them with a "brand new" plane ... the F-15EX Eagle II
#AskEck I've had the idea for a little while now that Lucasfilm should pursue adapting George Lucas's sequel treatments in comic form and getting Lucas himself to consult on it. This may sound like an out-there idea but Lucas was clearly unhappy that the story of his sequels was never told, he's had a life long love of comic books as a medium and even though he's retired, he's always been happy to consult on projects whenever Lucasfilm have asked him to (Solo, The Mandalorian, Dial of Destiny, etc). For Lucasfilm's part, they're fine with producing non canonical content like Visions and the rumored 'What if?' series. Marvel Comics has also just announced they'll be publishing 'What if?' Alien comics and Dark Horse recently published a comic adaption of one of James Cameron's old drafts for an Avatar sequel, so I don't see why Lucasfilm can't get either company to give Star Wars the same treatment. It could even be nice way to celebrate the upcoming 10 year anniversary of the beginning of the sequel trilogy, taking a look at what it could have been. So, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think it's an idea Lucasfilm should pursue?
Unless the New Republic ordered a new batch of B-Wings post RotJ, which wouldn't jive well with the whole demilitarization plotline, I can't see any way that a meaningful number of them would end up in Resistance hands. The ship was designed by a rebel sympathizer during the Dark Times, would've been pretty hard to produce, let alone maintain. I almost feel like what we see in RotJ is more or less what exists as far as B-Wings go. I mean, the Rebel Alliance are the exclusive manufacturers at the time and the Battle of Endor seems like it involves most, if not all, of the Alliance Fleet. Unless I'm missing something, these ships should be really, really, really rare. And Y-Wings were already being held together by melted-duraplast and duct-tape before the Battle of Yavin. At least those were mass-produced by the Old Republic, so a large surplus at least makes sense. Still just doesn't feel thought out, though.
The exclusive manufacturer wasn’t the Alliance by Slayin & Korpil a Verpine shipwright which was still active at the time of the Sequels. Even if we buy this demilitarizing crap for a second, the Verpine would make more B-Wings or more new starfighters just because they can. It is what they do make advanced ships and equipment.
Its hilarious how SW has basically a comic book sliding scale on tech. On the one hand the xwing has had multiple models created, but the hammerhead been around forever with little change. Then you have fighters from prehistory that seem to be able to keep up with modern ship stats. Youve got how many planets and species able to develop new stuff, but in 25k years weve seen what? maybe 50 designs mentioned?
I want to see a B-wing paint scheme that when viewed from the left makes it look like the pilot is flipping you off with an extended arm brandishing a middle laser finger.
It absolutely makes since for backwater worlds strapped for cash to buy obsolete military equipment. It happens all the time in our own history. After World War 2, surplus tanks and planes from all sides were given out to anyone that wanted them. The US Army was still fielding Sherman tanks during the Korean War because of reliability issues with the new Pershing tanks. Many European countries inherited German equipment. For a while the French Army had Panther and Tiger tanks. Czechoslovakia upgraded their German fighters for a while, and eventually donated them to Israel. Israel fought it's Independence War using mostly donated WW2 vintage equipment, and even had their own version of the "Tie-Ugly" by combining parts from several different fighters to make a working one. The Soviet Union gave away T-34 tanks to any country that claimed they were socialist. Every country that fought in WW2 still had and used equipment from the First World War, some ships in the US and Royal Navy were build BEFORE WW1. I could go on, but the point is that governments never throw away stuff if they can help it. I can absolutely believe that the Resistance was maybe stealing gear from New Republic warehouses or that Outer Rim worlds gave them some old star fighters they had in mothballs.
You are leaving out a few things here. First the Sherman used in Korea was the Easy Eight from the absolute tail end of the war. Second the Panther was phased before the decade ended I could find no evidence the Tiger I or Tiger II were used at all after the war ended. Third Israel and Czechoslovakia are not big powers so it is a bad example to use. Fourth. You ignore what capacity The WWI equipment was used in. It was almost used for rear-echelon personnel and rarely ever on the frontlines. Fifth when it comes to warships you ignore how both warships are built for decades of service and that interwar treaties by the victorious Allies meant every major player in the war except for Germany and the Soviet Union were forbidden for several years to make new Battleships and Battlecruisers and in almost all cases the WWI-era ships were extensively refitted in the interwar period. Germany itself only used some WWI-era ships as they were all they were allowed by the Versailles Treaty and the Soviet Union had to finish the ships which were waiting the in dry docks since the Russian Revolution and subsequent Russian Civil War started before they could make any new ones and the Soviet Navy itself was a historical footnote compared to the navies of the other major Allied and Axis nations.
Another factor could be just who's building this Resistance-presumably Leia's not just grabbing senators, since frankly the whole point is that the Senate doesn't believe in the threat (or at least a majority isn't helping), presumably she's grabbing whoever she can get ahold of-and a lot of her initial picks are almost certain to be former Rebels, all of whom are already trained on the A, B, X, and Y-wings and so would favor them or their 'descendants'. Because by this point these initial recruits are, well, old, they then wind up training the new recruits, naturally picking them out according to similar rules for how they picked Rebel pilots, and hey-if the models are slightly old, well, that just makes them easier to get ahold of. It's not like they have any reason to expect the Empire to suddenly have worthwhile fightercraft anyways.
The A-Wing getting more production seems iffy. It was explicitly described as so hard to properly fly it was only the best of the best who could effectively fight with them. They were originally based on a fighter designed for Jedi, after all.
Like, sure. I can see where the idea comes from in this. "The starfighters used by the Rebels are legendary because they were pivotal in defeating the Empire." I can see how they become incredibly popular and famous... And though stuff like the T-70 and T-85 seemed like reasonable upgrades to the T-65B, the A-Wing, B-Wing and Y-Wing did not. I feel like their designs should have been a bit more drastic. Just look at the Z-95 to ARC-170 to T-65B design language, they all share similar characteristics but are vastly different. Meanwhile, the T-70 has just different engines pretty much. But sure, let's say the Resistance had these ships because they were donated to them and all that... And besides, the Z-95, ARC-170 and T-65B are likely all just different models, it sorta sits within their names even. Like, there might be a T-50 or a Z-75 or a ARC-100 too, who's to say? Incom Corporation and Sublights products corporation likely made similar models of various different starfighters, some we have never even seen yet either. But what makes me even more livid is the First Order TIE Fighter... Seriously... So the Empire made the TIE Interceptor as a means to phase out TIE Strafighters, though they ended up being used in tandem with one another. TIE Starfighters was after all cheaper and easier to mass produce than TIE Interceptors. So, the TIE Interceptor is in essence the next-gen TIE Starfighter... Why then does the First Order think backwards and RE-INTRODUCE a modified variant of the TIE Starfighter, when it makes more sense if they made a modified TIE Interceptor? Or hell, what about a TIE Defender or TIE Avenger type starfighter? Why the same bloody design the Empire used to ineffective effect against the Rebels??? THAT I never truly understood. Like is it because it's cheaper? The First Order is less about the expendable soldiers than the Empire is, the First Order is more elite, one might say. Their Stormtroopers have better training. Hell, why not go for a fleet of TIEs similar to the one used by Vonreg? or a TIE Silencer like Kylo Ren uses? At least that one looks like it makes sense! I swear to God, Sienar-Jaemus have no clue what they are doing...
the B-Wing was really done dirty by the new canon. turning a legends fighter/attacker craft into a bomber slower than the decades older Y-Wing. Squadrons redeemed it a little, but damn my boy got screwed.
I'm not exactly sure what the canon was on it at the time, but it was a pretty lumbering craft in Rogue Leader on Gamecube as well. From the novels, I mostly remember it being armed to the teeth.
@JonSmith-hk1bq Yeah, it kinda depends on the media. For Legends novels, TIEs went 100 MGLT, X-W 80, Y-W 70, Slave I 70 and B-W 60. For the XvT games, TIEs and X-Ws were equal at 100 MGLT, while the B-W flew 91 MGLT, faster than the Y-W's 80 (which is weird because the Slave I also flew 91 MGLT, even though Slave I and Y-W is said to fly at the same speeds).
@@AetherStryfe Well there's a caveat with XvT: The B-wings were "faster" than the Y wings, but they had a massive hitbox and the 3 lasers/ion cannons sucked up so much juice you had to pump that extra engine energy into the shields and weapons leaving it frustratingly slow lol
Because Disney's purchase of Lucasfilm came from a source of greed, the antithesis of artistic creativity. That greed carried over into the Sequels as Disney/LucasFilm tried to capitalize off the nostalgia of the OT by essentially rehashing the OT for the first 2 episodes of the ST, then rehashed the Dark Empire with 9 as damage control from 8.
I liked the enhancement to the X-wing lines that produced the ChaseX and StealthX in the EU. They also had a few other ships added in from time to time, like the Mandalorian Basalisk (I can't remember how to spell the official name anymore), or the Chiss Clawcraft. But in order for that nostalgic feeling to hit, Disney Star Wars is stuck relying on the purely familiar. They can't make something original or new and still have the audience go "oh, that's a [blank]." I still think they could've made something stronger by going for original ships and characters, though. They trapped themselves too deeply, and then they failed to show that they cared at all. Which brings audiences to the same thought: If they don't care, why should we?
If George had down the sequels there certainly would have been a lot more bold and varied designs front and centre, just like he did with the PT. He could have used things like X-Wings etc for the clones but he didn't. We know from Bob Iger's book that George got angry when he saw The Force Awakens complaining "There's nothing new". JJ hates the PT and played it far to safe by not using new designs for just about anything. At least Rian tried with the bombers, they looked very different but their design as craft to use in battle in the story sucked ass. Remember "Bombers keep that formation tight" that way when one blows up for a couple of shots two others do too.
idk how JJ felt on the prequels, but the fans certainly still hated them when TFA was in production, so a lot of its returning to OT themes and designs was specifically reacting to fan criticism. A flaw that is shared by the whole ST tbh. Also, you comment about the TFA bomber makes me think you maybe misunderstood the scene, or maybe have just never rewatched it/not watched it in a long time. If you are interested in a discussion about it, you can say so, if not, i wish you a good day.
@@emberfist8347 it's obviously not ideal tactics, the movie itself even draws attention to that. But that's not because the Resistance were idiots or because the writers didn't know what they were doing, but because the Resistance was desperate and had to resort to using ships build for a different purpose, in bad formations, to even have the smallest chance of accomplishing their target.
Honestly this should have been a deisgn slam dunk: First Order obsessed with the past, the Resistance flying whatever the heck they could get hold of: M3A Sycks, Mining Ties...
The idea of the Resistance using MilSurp honestly *isn't* a bad idea...but we should definitely see a lot more variety to what they use than what we do, especially in TFA (where they don't have *anything* but the new model X-Wing). Think about how cool it'd have been to see them using Venator Star Destroyers or Lucrehulks, or watching First Order TIEs mix it up with ARC-170s and Vulture Droids. But no, just like everything else about the current continuity, it's more about brand recognition than logic or world building.
To be fair it'll be completely unrecognizable if they used new ships. Would look like some new sci-fi franchise because they often fail to follow McQuarrie rules of design. Prequels have the advantage of using existing characters and keeping them consistent with the OT unlike ST which just shoves the OT trio into the background.
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о I don't agree, especially if they'd used EU ships, which borrow design elements from OT and PT ships, the way Filoni does. You can't look at the E-Wing or the K-Wing or the Claw Craft and not immediately understand these are all Star Wars ships.
@@AJadedLizard well, I don't think we'll see EU designs reused, instead we'll see something similar to Mandator IV and Resurgent that kinda don't scream Star Wars ship. Or the TLJ bomber, which is super generic. It'll be even less recognizable as Star Wars and look more like a spoof of the franchise.
@@АлексейМомот-щ7оExcept new Sci-Fi franchises have some good designs like the Solar Sailers from Avatar that could land on a planet use their exhaust to clear the landing zone.
The lack of innovative new ship designs was SUCH a let down for the sequels. I loved that the prequels gave us a lot of GREAT stuff. I liked this "journey" method for the video.
In terms of the writers of the sequels, I understand why they went back to the X-Wing and Tie Fighter for Force Awakens. Same reason they had another planet killing weapon. They wanted to draw on the popularity of these things from the OT. And honestly, I loved TFA. But once that movie was done and they established how the torch was being handed over, they should have brought in fresh ship designs. Eck's video tries to make sense of the decision to re-use all 4 Rebel ships, and he did a great job with it. But there was no reason they couldn't have done something new in TLJ and ROS.
The real answer is of course, Disney doesn't want to fund new unproven toy lines. there is a reason we had no new merch released for the new movies/shows until after they were basically all done, and instead got the OG toys re-re-re-released again with a new box. Disney won't open to new designs because they mean less profit in either designer fees, toy production spool-up, or royalties for old designs.
If Disney wanted to make an original trilogy, they could have decided to do it. Complete with a new artistic vision and aesthetics of the post-Empire galaxy. They did not! Time will tell how successful their long term strategy with their shiny billion dollar IP acquisition is.
@@littlekong7685 "Of course?" Disney makes new product ALL THE TIME. All of those movies they made the past 2 years that bombed? (Lightyear, Little Mermaid, etc) New toy product for every one of them. Not to mention that the ships are still different. They can't just re-use the original tooling, they are all completely new designs though influenced heavily by OT. This is a ridiculous take.
The sequel x-wing engines and wings always bother me. They took a craft balanced between firepower & speed (with slight preference to speed/agility) and made it look more fragile. It looks like it's supposed to be the new A-wing, but then... What's the purpose of the new A-wing itself? The engines used to be round - makes sense for an engine which uses rotary parts in a cylinder. But slitting it into 2 "hemispheres" really doesn't make sense for any reason. It would just be and entirely new, non-cylinderical engine. Making the top & bottom wing pieces fit into each other just to get a single flat plane doesn't make sense either. It introduces mechanical complications while providing no practical benefits (hard to argue wind resistance as any issue). And the decease in wing material makes the craft appear so much more fragile. The entire design motif of the Sequels is all about "wouldn't it be cool if..." and zero focus on things actually making sense. Star Wars isn't "real" sci Fi, so they didn't need to have all the science thought out - we only need enough to say "yeah this is something that makes sense" and move on. But when things don't make sense it's easy to get distracted and caught up on them
Disney could have easily brought in Expanded Universe designs like the E-Wing, M-Wing, and the epic K-Wing. Instead, they just recycled older designs because they're creatively bankrupt.
The Resistance either has dumb designs that hurt to watch or just reuse Rebel ships. Neither were a good idea for a faction that suffers from being discount Rebels but worse in any way.
I think it’s kind of sad how creatively bankrupt the sequels were. With the prequels, when you saw a Venator and an AT-TE with clone batallions by the dozen or a MTTs supported by Hailfire droids or the AATs mixed with super battle droids, everyone cheered and epic fanfare was playing and it was so beautiful. But instead we got basically a rebel and empire 2.0, but that’d be an insult to a second revision, it’s more like rebel and empire 1.2
well when fans keep screaming about how they hated the prequels and how all their designs sucked, i think it's definitely understandable that LF wanted to go back to the roots with the Resistance and FO.
I never really had an issue with the Resistance using some of the sameish ships. But the fact they had literally no new designs for dogfights was just lazy. The other shocker was the FO. Ties clearly weren't the best choice and yet they doubled down on them, to the point one even has a gunner. They should have focused more or the ships that were more successful at defeating the Rebels (such as the Interceptor). At least the FO did have a couple varients of the Interceptor. They just still treated it as a special craft instead of a standard craft.
I feel the best representation of post war star ship designs is by EC Henry. His concept for Y-Wings and B-Wings being more support vessels rather than attack shuttles is an interesting take on the New Republic’s anti-war bills. Check him out if ya wanna see his amazing Star Wars content
While I dislike the sequels, the concept of it being Rebels 2.0 vs Empire 2.0 is... interesting. I have a love-hate relationship with it. On one hand, in universe it means that this tech was good enough to make new models, but out of universe it's like they don't care to make new stuff.
Honestly sounds a little like the situation with Ukraine at the moment, the larger Republic doesn't really want to acknowledge the first order threat and break out into full war, but some planets and groups will donate surplus and outdated ships and equipment for someone else to fight for them. I think the force awakens had a lot of potential that to explore a two nation galaxy, with a declining republic giving ground to a (up until the firing of the starkiller base) relatively tolerated imperial remnant. Its a shame that nostalgia for the original trilogy and a lack of planning hampered the world building potential.
If the Resistance was that hard up for fighters, it probably would have made more sense for them to have surplus TIES in their ranks. Lucas knows there sure were a lot of them! But that's the *bad guy* ship, so damn logic.
Regarding the X-wing l. I was completely fine with it. It’s super iconic and I love the fact that it is similar but way more streamlined. It looks like an updated x-wing. The issue is they did that with every ship….. and the xwing is the only one that looks new rather than just a modification
The BTA-NR2 Y-Wing being in-universe nostalgia bait is such a horribly contrived scenario that it somehow loops back to being acceptable in my mind. The whole "here have a worse version of a thing you loved" situation is nothing if not relatable.
Pablo needs to take the job seriously or quit lmao. Didn't he brag about spending hours with JJ Abrams on a phone talking to him about lore, why couldn't he ask him to make ships more original or reuse ships from EU? Then he makes a 180 stance that he never liked TFA and writes lore like this for TROS.
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о the legends version of those companies didn't have to experience 10 years of fans screaming at them how bad the prequels were and how all their new designs sucked and how they wanted their X-Wings and Tie-Fighters back.
@@louischerik4557 i know it's popular to pretend that the star wars fandom was all peace and flowers before the sequels, but that was not the case. You can try to deny it all you want, but the Prequel hate was real and it was immense. It was part of why Lucas even sold the franchise.
The RZ-2 going faster "because its slimmer" is an odd phrasing BUT a reduction in volume = reduction in mass = increase in power : weight = faster. It makes sense with the miniaturization of hyperdrives and abandonment of hyperspace rings for ships in its class around that time, especially with the other "standardised modifications". A-wings are densely packed by design so they'd likely have similar average density, which would make volume the deciding factor if the engine doesn't change too much. Also, starfighters do enter and fight in atmosphere regularly and I'd assume the requirements on your particle shield's scale up as you get less aerodynamic. So being more aerodynamic would decreases the weight overhead at a given in atmosphere performance for shield systems. In comparison TIE fighters are unshielded, don't handle in atmosphere fantastically and rely on repulsors, which are vulnerable to even basic energy shielding.
The only good thing about the final space battle was when Palps agreed with us on how stupid it was, and just fried the whole thing. No fleet, no tactics, just a bunch of copy and pasted ships flying in circles. Disney seriously just copied every single bit of the final battle of Avengers: Endgame, and replaced the Marvel stuff with Star Wars stuff. Good guys fight, almost loose, are saved by a huge fleet, almost loose again, but then the hero saves the day and dies in the process. No new ships, no new battle, just everyone vomiting on each other until one side wins by default because the bad guy disappears due to his own power being used against him. UGH! Couldn't even give us a good space battle!
Because under Disney Lucasfilm recycled old rejected Ralph MacQuarrie designs. If you have enough art of star wars books, you can see all the pilfering. The reason they don't look as good as the old stuff is because they were rejected or remade to work. They're literally giving us garbage.
For the RZ-2, Making it a bit longer and such to be a little faster is more about balance and the leverage of the RCS and thrust vectoring systems, making the ship overall more controllable and confidence inspiring. This allows the pilot to feel more able to push the A-wing, a fighter infamous for being a touchy and skiddish ship demanding a master to fly even remotely as intended, much closer to its limits and so faster.
I think the same way. The RZ-2 likely fixed the flaws of the RZ-1 that made it so dangerous to pilots. It likely still needs above average skill to pilot, but is much safer and forgiving than its predecessor
To play Devil's Advocate for a moment, the New Republic fleet in Legends often fielded ships that were identical or very similar to those of the Rebel Alliance, with authors frequently turning to the same old OT designs despite stories like Dark Empire introducing all sorts of cool new ones. It wasn't until the very end of the Galactic Civil War that the NR fleet started properly upgrading with New Class Modernization ships. But yeah, I'm not going to let Abrams and company off the hook for their laziness and over-reliance on 'member berries. It's one thing when you're a single author writing a book for a niche audience; it's another entirely when you're making a blockbuster film with a practically infinite budget and the most talented artists, designers and special effects teams Hollywood can buy. The new lore does kind of soften the blow, but it's still a messy retcon that didn't have to exist if they had just showed a little more creativity in the first place.
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о It is faster than the A-Wing (keep in mind the A-Wing is canonically the fastest ship of the Galactic Civil War) armed with heavy laser cannons, has more proton torpedoes. And is stated to have little to have little in common with the models from OT. This variant is called the T-65AC4.
![TAKING CONTROL OF BASTION... [#3 Thrawn's Revenge: Galactic Empire]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4WzAIwsVcMM/mqdefault.jpg)
I think it’s a shame that there are so few original new ship designs out of Star Wars now a days especially capital ships
I guess thats why I loved the starhawk design so much. It feels so original
@@nd_0176 I love the starhawk too. The funny thing is that the design was made by fantasy flight games not Lucas film
@@nd_0176 I personally hate the Star Hawk but that's largely because it's an awful carrier design if your goal is to be anything except a Star Fox 64 boss. It's not a bad looking ship but putting the launch bay in the nose is a horrible idea.
I was very disappointed about the size of their “fleet”
@@generalsmite7167No it wasn't - The design was funneled from Lucasfilm to Fantasy Flight Games. FFG revealed the design for the first time.
I’m never gonna get over the description of the republic Y-wing as “uncircumcised”. I’m never gonna unhear that. Thanks Eck
you're welcome
I was howling 😂😂
@@schitflowsdwnhilyou furries are too much
What bothers me is how underpowered the resistance was. Their predecessors, the alliance struggled to collect manpower and materials. That I can understand since it was a collection of cells unifying.
But Leia formed this group as a paramilitary essentially. They should’ve had more from the get go. I’d even believe if they were a well funded branch of the new republic intelligence service instead.
The way I see it, if they wanted it to be the Rebellion still fighting the Empire then it should have been ROTJ cut the head off the snake, but the Empire didn't actually fall and remains the primary force in the galaxy. That would serve to fix a good bit.
All the celebrating happening at the end of ROTJ could be just before the Empire regroups and the hammer comes down
@@RealSensationalBeing Wasn't that the original plan anyway? There was supposed to be a massive last stand at the end of the Civil War taking place in Coruscant.
@@pugasaurusrex8253What continuity are we going to? Before or after Disney? Before Disney it read to me like the Empire didn't put up very much of a fight until Thrawn went into action. After Disney, for some reason the Empire's last stand is beyond Coruscant, which is another thing I never understood.
But anyway, the Empire's ability to hold Coruscant in my proposal could theoretically break the Rebellion's momentum in the war.
And if we keep Snoke (which I also have my better canon for) then we have someone for the Empire to rally to in order to remain intact after the loss of the Emperor.
@@RealSensationalBeing
For the remakes I believe with Disney. The original stories as far as I know were supposed to be done with the prequels.
@@RealSensationalBeing Before Disney they put up a pretty good fight actually. The whole Rogue Squadron series is about the reorganized New Republic like a year or two after Endor fighting against the primary Imperial Warlord. There's a whole pretty large battle in space around Coruscant before she retreats leaving a plague behind that was cured by Bacta. Which she indirectly controlled the supply of so the Empire got rich off of the New Republic dealing with a plague on its new capital. Thats just one series but my point is there were several major wars and campaigns that the New Republic fought against the Imperial Remnants. Thrawn's campaign was just the largest of them. There was a ton of infighting though in the old canon which did weaken them a lot. Primarily in the outer and mid rim. The core worlds afaik were conquered in that campaign primarily fought in the rogue squadron series. Also also, there were mass rebellions I think in the old canon, once it became clear the rebellion had a solid chance of winning. But they did put up a fight. Quite a few super star destroyer engagements proves that
Resistance is the Rebel Alliance that you get from Wish.
"Rabel ayleunce"
Woulda guessed Timu or SOME similar app
The film or the website?
Ha! So true!
The rebel alliance we have at home.
"The Republic era Y-Wing was uncircumcised"
Poetic
I was caught off guard by that one, yeah
I almost missed him saying it, but he's really not wrong about it is he?
@@scarletcrusader5431 that doesn't make any sense
Rebel Alliance Y-Wing is a Y-Wing in a Bikini.
Leia Organa: "We need your help!"
Everyone in the Galaxy: "We sleep."
Lando Calrissian: "I need your help."
Everyone in the Galaxy: *"WE ARE ON OUR WAY, COMRADE!"*
Can you blame them?
Despite the progress made, it is symbolism that the patriarchy reigns supreme.
@@2pumpedupforu The alternative (assuming of course the 2 people who ask remain the same) would be Lando asking and not being heard. Which would be racism.
@@sophisthemlock246 tough choices huh…
@@2pumpedupforu Yes, maybe they should've simply had no one ask for help in order to avoid the meaningless choices
In each of Prequel episodes we saw numerous of completely new ship designs, while in Sequel episodes it's the same TIE Fighters and X-Wings (slightly modified)
well, when TFA was made, people on the internet were screaming how bad the prequel designs are and that they hate them and that they want X-Wings and Tie-Fighters back.
Disney owns those designs for marketing, they can resell old stock without having to go through a new toy process, and they don't have to pay new designers for their models. There is a reason they didn't licence out a razorcrest model until the 3rd season of The Mandelorean was announced, they didn't want to take a risk on a new product line (Baby Yoda was a proven hit because OG Yoda was hit, therefore the same thing again is also a guaranteed hit). Disney runs on spreadsheets and market predictions, not creativity or risk.
@@littlekong7685 so in other words, disney is a business lol
maybe they'd be more open to taking risks if people didn't react to anything new with ridiculous levels of rage and hate lol
@@littlekong7685 I think its not about takins risks, but lack of imagination. Prequel era ships were super cool both on screen and as toys. Cool new ships for Sequels would also sell well in stores, I think.
@@Olochgu I get it. But why did they have to ALL be X-Wings in The Force Awakens? Even the original Star Wars in 1977 had two types of fighters for the Rebels.
The solution is simple. Have half the ships be X-Wings and put Poe in one. Have the rest be a smattering of Y-Wings, A-Wings, and B-Wings plus, one new design in the same sort of industrial style. You still have it be focused on nostalgia, but you also have the variety so the squadrons don't look so sanitized for what's supposed to be a motley fleet.
I mean the entire resistance is lazy...
It's literally a desperate attempt at copying the Rebellion. Basically, everything in Ep. 7 is an OG Trilogy copy.
The entire sequel trilogy is lazy haha
@@PresidentMystry Facts
I don't hate sequel stuff a lot but Resistance's lack of an original identity was a big problem. The First Order had the advantage of cool redesigns that even though originated from the Empire looked different enough to make them somewhat unique
PresidentMystry ...No lie detected.
Go in Peace and Walk with God. 😎 👍
I think we were robbed. Could have rolled out the E-Wing much earlier (or later depending on your point of view), made it the successor to the X-Wing, or at least made it a major presence in the Resistance Fleet, given us something new(ish), AND payed homage to Legends. It deserved more than the glorified cameo it got in Ashoka.
Well, here's hoping that we'll see more of it as the Thrawn stuff picks up steam.
I find it very hard to believe that Filloni would invest the production time and resources to bring the E-Wing to life just for a single scene appearance.
I'm fine with the X-Wing being given the biggest role since it and the TIE are easily the most iconic fighters. But it would have been nice to get more variety. Especially in The Force Awakens.
@@JonSmith-hk1bqBut that makes the galaxy seem stagnant. Let me give you an example, Star Trek has multiple ships named the USS Enterprise but they look different. Compare the original Enterprise from TOS to the Enterprise-D from TNG they are distinct ships.
@@emberfist8347 That's not exactly true. Star Trek re-used many ships. I believe the Enterprise and Enterprise-A even shared a model. The Miranda and Excelsior classes plus Klingon Birds of Prey were from Kirk's time and remained in heavy use through the Dominion War. And that's a lot less time than between RotJ and TFA.
Like I said, I didn't mind returning to the iconic designs of the Original Trilogy. I just wish they had more variety than X-Wings vs. TIE Fighter in TFA.
The highlight of sequel ships: Tie-Dorito and the shoebox class transport.
Everything in the JJ Movies that isn’t an OT ship is a box
@@KRobinson-ko1neomg, you're right! Han's first ship is a box, and Leia's little shuttle is a box. It's such a box, I couldnt tell which end was the front. Stormtroopers also travel in boxes
@@histguy101 JJ apparently had a HUGE role in the ship designs pretty much up until the last movie when they had the studio build that fleet from scratch at the last minute (When there just wasn't time to micromanage them). He apparently likes boxes. He wanted the Klingon ships to be boxes but paramount wouldn't let him.
@@histguy101The last two at least had some cool ideas. The Resistance ship was a Chinook turn on its side while the First Order one was clearly based on the LCVP and Marine Corps amphibious assault ships.
TLJ had cooler looking designs, even if it's in universe a bad ship the resistance bomber is good looking ship
The issue I always had was the ships never evolving despite it being around 2 decades after the OT. The leap in tech from WWII (which the OT was based around) to Vietnam was huge. And George designed ships in the PT to look like natural evolutions to what comes in the OT. In Star Wars the PT Y wings were covered since the republic was well funded. The rebels were using scraps so it made sense for them to look less new. In the ST only the X wing looked like a natural evolution with new engines at least. All other fighters even in the First Order were just reskins for the most part when neither the New Republic or First Order were lacking in funds to make ship upgrades. Demilitarizing the Republic was beyond dumb, and probably to make them weaker than they should have been and an excuse to have less new designs. But It especially doesn’t make sense for the First Order to not upgrade when the Empire lost the conflict and all they did was keep old designs.
There was the two seater tie in FA that was pretty cool, but they kinda forgot they existed after that…
With the first order it makes sense since their entire ideology is about fetishizing the old empire and its iconography, so most of the improvements are below the surface (giving ties better weapons and proper shields, building star destroyers with shorter more well protected bridges and an auxiliary bridge deep within the hull so they can’t be knocked out easily by targeting the main bridge).
The resistance on the other hand mainly just uses the old ships since that’s basically all they can get their hands on, scraps and hand outs. Why there’s nothing new or interesting is a question for lucasfilm
Still tho, why weren’t there mass production TIE Defenders? And why didn’t the Resistance use “obsolete” E Wings or B Wing Mk2’s? It’s a major missed opportunity no matter how you rationalize it.
Lazy writing
Today the F15 and F16 are over 50 years old and still in common service across the world receiving upgrades, The B52 is over 70 years old. Its pretty consistent overall and on a galactic scale it would probably be the same or even slower with time, distance, money and paperwork inflating the numbers by massive margins.
Me: Mum I want a rebel alliance.
Mum: we have a rebel alliance at home
Rebel alliance at home= resistance
Late Rebel Alliance: at open war, holds territory, has a combat fleet that the Empire is genuinely worried about.
Late Resistance: about 200 people on a single planet.
@@BjornTheDim mid resistance: 2 dozen people on the falcon
I always felt that star wars is in a very weird stage right now where theyre almost scared to to tell new stories in fear of alienating old fans or scaring away new fans.
I'm probably wrong, but I feel like the stories really havent changed since I was a kid.
I mean episodes 7-9 are basically just reskins of the original trilogy.
Its not that theyre scared its that they wanted to bank off of nostalgia which is cheap but effective in the short term in getting ppl to watch your stuff. And they're still trying to capitalize on it with baby yoda and boba fett. Imo thats what it is anyways. God I fucking hate baby yoda
@@jatzi1526exactly. Star Wars is actually dying it’s insane
I hadn't thought about Rise of Skywalker in a while, my heart sank a bit at seeing shots of the Battle of Exegol. As a Star Wars fan, I feel like I have enormous tolerance for goofy and weird stories set in the universe. I wasn't expecting Disney to come up with stuff that felt so bland and soulless.
Stores weren't selling anything unique to the Sequels even when TFA came out, they had OG Yoda and Vader.
There just isn't anything noteworthy about the new Star Wars content that isn't the fluke that was the combo of Mando and Grogu.
Heck, even Thrawn for how iconic he looks is nowhere near as interesting as the casts of either the Prequel or Original Trilogy.
Even the in universe explanation is "remember when?" Lmao
'Member Berries....
my head cannon is that what disney is making the resistance Y-wing was created in the NR era more for sector forces who were used to using the old Y-wing but needed an updated model, while the true sequel to the y-wing is something like ec henry's design. Same for the b-wing
“The y wing was uncircumcised” that going into an eckhartsladder out of context compilation isn’t it?
Except... the Clone Wars vs Rebellion Y-Wing is more like... inverted circumcised? The "skin" is taken off everything except the head...
I can imagine that the same craft, at least upgraded versions, would still be in service. Jet fighters from the 1960s were in service in a number of second tier militaries up until recently, in particular the F-4 Phantom and MiG-21. Slightly newer fighters from the 70s and 80s are not only still in front line service, but with upgrades, aren't likely to go out of service any time soon, see the F-15, F-16, F-18, MiG-29, and the various Flanker variants. And don't even get me _started_ on the B-52.
Civil War era designs being present in smaller faction militaries makes a ton of sense, and therefore being present in small quantities in some paramilitary group also makes a degree of sense. Emphasis on small. But tbh I disagree with the frontline NR stuff being from that era too just cuz the US and Russian military cant stop using cold war era shit. That's for several reasons. Costs to design new things, politics which is probably a big one, super long development times. The F22 should honestly have become our main fighter. And the F35 will eventually most likely replace the F15, F16, and F22. But yeah it took like fucking 20 years to develop the F22 and like 15 to develop the F35. Hard to replace things when development programs are that long. And so so so overbudget. Thats like the motto of the US military procurement programs. Too long and too expensive. The army has tried to replace the Abrams and its SPGs multiple times and 113s and shit and the programs all failed. Likewise the Navy's programs to replace their stuff have also mostly failed. My point is that the reason the US military uses upgraded cold war era equipment isn't really cuz its good and they like it and in all honestly probably shouldn't be emulated in a story. You certainly dont want to emulate the Russian military and its use of non-upgraded cold war era shit either lol. A lack of reason is also involved. Russia hasn't been a serious near-peer threat for awhile and the middle east ofc isn't. Now that China is a real threat the entire military is suddenly like oh fuck all our shit is super old and shitty. Like across the board the US military is trying to get new models. New rifles, new tanks, new helicopters, new fighters, new tankers, new bombers, new destroyers, new carriers, new arty, new missiles. Everything is getting replaced as quickly as they can manage it cuz yeah shit from the 70s and 80s is still in service but holy hell it shouldn't be. God I legit used a tank from Vietnam in the army in the late 2010s. The AVLB. Shittiest fucking thing ever
The newest B-52 airframe is at least 60 years old. And while they aren't combat craft, the KC-135 and C-130 designs are in the same ballpark in terms of original entry to service.
Yes but still, not all of them are still used today. This is what bothers me in Star Wars, there isn't one original ship in the whole resistance. Imagine going to a dogfight using a F-15 while your opponent have a F-35.
No first world nation uses the F-4 or MiG-21 anymore as they are obsolete even as target drones. The MiG-29 and F-15 are also being phased out for newer designs like the Su-57 and F-35 respectively. The issue in the Sequels there are no clearer newer designs to phase out the old.
@@GoranXIIBut most of those in service aren’t the same craft that flew all those years ago. Comparing a Vietnam C-130 to a modern Super Hercules is apples to oranges.
JJ: why don’t I put in a TIE fighter
Disney: TIE fighters already exist
JJ: what if we put an antenna on it
Disney: *slaps table* GENIUS
Even the fucking animated series has good designs! Yeah the Tie Baron is basically an interceptor, but it’s still got a more unique shape! The curved instead of angled wings, the cut outs on the back of the wing, it’s unique!
I find it hilarious that the Empire managed to crank out such legends as the Defender, Avenger, Oppressor and Phantom whilst the New Order - decades later - somehow managed to regress to the old, crappy basic models that their predecessors had phased out of service for being so helplessly obsolete.
Based on irl history, after WWII, the world market was filled with prop fighters and bombers that were not needed and were increasingly outdated by newer jet aircraft, so basically they ended up in the hands of every post-colonial country, some until the 1970s.
Sure, but the thing there is that they were *outdated* and were used by places that couldn't afford, or didn't need, cutting edge stuff. Unless the point of the Sequel Trilogy is that this is some backwater dispute instead of a fight with major repercussions on the galaxy
@@0giwan Honestly, the conflict in the Sequels literally feels like a backwater dispute, so it's not a stretch to believe that it is
@@infinitespace2520keep in mind the NR’s major planets got nuked in TFA
@@infinitespace2520
Thus they’d be more fitting in the shows, which really ARE backwater… and we love them all the more for it.
@@austinreed7343 Yeah, but we love the shows because they feel important and have a good plot, the sequels just feel completely irrelevant and basically meaningless. Maybe if they were shows instead, with proper build up and good lore they'd be great.
Hell, the B-wing was barely in it for no reason. Its the OT ship that most acceptable to make front and center in the ST since its got 3 seconds of screen time in 6 and is very unique.
Lego never even made a set based off it. I had to modify my own lego B-wing based on the concept art.
The Y-Wing part "even adding little surprises for enemy fighters" made me imagine that some rebels got a hold of old buzz droids, releasing a swarm of them to completely dismantle several elite tie fighter squads who have never even seen anything like it. Absolutely terrifying
When they mean by key role in the battle of Endor They Really mean that one A wing responsible for 911ing into Vader’s SSD
Well, an A-Wing did participate in the Death Star run and, along with a Y-Wing, drew the majority of TIE Fighters off of Lando and Wedge so they could complete the run.
It was Tycho Celchu back when the EU was still a thing if I recall.
Well destroying the flagship of the enemy is a big deal. And it wasn’t 9/11ing it was more akin to the B-25 that tried to crashed into the Akagi at Midway.
Meanwhile in Rebels they lost A-Wings so fast it broke immersion for me (where is Phoenix Cell replacing this many escort fighters and pilots at??)
@@sethb3090 The R-22 Spearhead (A-Wings weren't invented yet so it would be an R-22) were coming from independent spacers who joined the Rebellion it was popular among them.
@@emberfist8347 my question was more how did they keep finding independent spacers to throw themselves into the meat grinder...
The Y-Wing is my favorite Star Wars ship probably ever. If they just wanted to use all the classic ships they should have gone all out and embraced it. Instead they don't use Y-Wings that much if at all and don't give them any screen time.
For me while I like the Y-Wing removing it made sense. It was already obsolescent during the Galactic Civil War-era and the B-Wing was designed to replace it in the Alliance. To give some context in Legends, the Y-Wing was out of frontline service by the time of the Yuuzhan Vong invasion 25 years after Yavin which made all the spaceframes at least 40 years old. The X-Wing was still in service but it wasn’t the same model as the ones from the OT and the New Republic had many many newer craft in their inventory too.
@@emberfist8347 The A wing and X wing were obsolete as well that's why they made a redesign, dude. Instead of the T-65B X-Wing it's gone over to the T-70 and now even the T-85. They made a redesign of the Y Wing as well but they just didn't really put them in the movies unless they "technically" snuck them in the background of that ugly fleet battle in the 9th movie.
Really enjoy this laid back, conversational style for some videos. The co-learning approach gets my brain going in all the ways that make me love Star Wars.
Never even heard of the D-Wing or The Razor Assault Ship The latter being especially inspiring. It reminds me of a canted T-16 Skyhopper, which to this day is one of my favorite "Star Wars-y" designs.
Except in the opening crawl of Force Awakens it says the Resistance has direct support from the New Republic. - "With the support of the REPUBLIC,
General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE." So the whole unsanctioned resistance idea is a little loose and kind of tacked on later after the Last Jedi. So the resistance still was using Republic credits to source all of their fighters in the end.
The Republic was also something like 5 planets in 2 star systems too... and ALL of the Republic capitals got blown up at once leaving no government, no industry, and no military. And they had also apparently completely demilitarized 2 years after Endor while still fighting Imperial remnants who also spontaneously demilitarized at the same time?
@@littlekong7685That is stupid as hell.
the real reason is that Disney doesnt know how to make star wars good without trying to rely completely on nostalgia
I like Legends NR designs
What drives me crazy the most is that EC Henry made many custom updated designs which manage to combine the fuzzy nostalgia with feeling of in-universe progress and worldbuilding
So you're telling me Disney's explanation for lack of creativity in ship design is a cash grab both in and out of universe? Damn they do not understand irony do they
I'm still miffed the sequel trilogy factions and ships are all palatte swaps.
The B-Wing always deserved more love!
I like the idea that Y-wing engines are big conventional engines for the purpose of being a planetary quick reaction force. Y-wings are the Saab JAS 39 Gripen of Star Wars. When someone rolls up to your planet looking for a fight you need to go up and go fast, pop off, then get back to do it all over again. Anyone rolling up to a planet would need to bring a ground invasion force, meaning big ships rather than only small fighters. The Y-wing can be seen as a reaction to the Naboo blockade from the Phantom Menace: everyone suddenly understood: "omg, we need to be able to fight back if something like that happens to us." ... end head-cannon.
I definitely see the slight upgrades to the ships making sense from an in universe perspective. Although I could also see several of the original models in the resistance or some Z-95 Headhunters or E-Wings.
It also sucks the only new design was apparently armored with tin foil and moved like a broken down Lincoln Towncar.
That and Snoke’s flagship which was taken from a manga.
Where was the New Republic in the sequels? That is so stupid a literal remnant of the empire led by one warlord (Hux) was able to take over the entire Galaxy in the span of a week (after their homebase, most of their fleet, and everyone on Starkiller was destroyed and killed no less). Almost as crazy as Rey being the most powerful Jedi the galaxy had ever seen in the span of a week as well.
The Star wars Galaxy in the sequels felt so small, might as well have been a minor skirmish compared to the scale of the Clone wars.
We started the trilogy with the Resurgence class, then it was pretty much downhill from there to the ISD-I with a dong class.
We had fairly good smaller capital ships! Why did everything else have suck so much!? We had the Chiss clawcraft, the Eclipse, World Devastators, a metric ton of abandoned concept arts, and EU background ships! Why did we end up with an 8km long pizza slice, with repainted TIE/Ins, and a direct scaled up ISD-I with a DONG!!!? (I do like having X-wings though.... Y-wings at that pushing a bit too much for my taste.)
The lazy stardong was because JJ literally had no plans and the CGI department had to make something up on the fly, last minute, with no heads up, using ONLY listed, licensed Disney pre-approved designs (That already had a toy line in production). This severely limited their options in style, and probably affected their crappy scaling decisions. They didn't use legacy designs because it means less profit for Disney, since many of those designers retain some right to those designs and could ask for money (That Disney famously doesn't pay anyways).
@@littlekong7685Really because in the Prequel era George would show up one day tell the crew to make a pickup truck with guns and they would produce the Gian Speeder.
They could have had the Tie Hunter from Rogue Squadron which was basically a Tie with X-Wings and a shield. Instead we get a "Sith" Tie Fighter with Dorito wings that serves no purpose compared to a regular Tie Fighter and isn't even an upgrade from the Tie Interceptor
“The Republic era Y-Wing was uncircumcised.” Ok, that was good.
At least Disney gave us the T-70 and the Resistance bomber. The Xyston destroyer -now that is true laziness. The big cannon is fine, but the fact that they literally upscaled the ISD model, and didn't bother changing the proportionate size of any of its components...I could do that myself in 3D software in about 2 minutes.
Well, one thing can sum this video up
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
Honestly, as much as I hate to say it, it does make some sense. Look at the F-15. The fighter has been in service for well over 30 years. Yes, it's not the same model, but unless you have a big plane buff, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between the F-15A and the modern F-15EX.
While I wish they came up with new fighters, the idea of just updating proven models is a good idea. However, the first order has no excuse for still using a fighter that has been proven to be infective. The first order needed a new design desperately, and all we got was a recolour.
Sure, but the difference is that we have the previous 30 years before the f15 to look at, planes in 1942 were very different, even if you want to say hey that's an extreme jump, even if you use the 20 years earlier in universe the republics desighns put into the empire and rebels were changed to make them more distinctive and make them flow better, it doesn't make sense that the resistance has the same exact ship lineup, except for a transport that would be hell to fly in, and a brick wall called a bomber
@calebbarnhouse496 I'm not saying that they shouldn't have more variety in their starfighters. They definitely should. I'm just trying to use a real-world example of a fighter sticking around for decades to give context. I mean, they still use the same half century old bomber design. Sometimes it's really just if it ain't broken, don't fix it.
Saying that the fact that the new Republic demilitarised shortly after the end of the war, it does make some sense why we don't see more variety. As dumb as it is, they have given a reason. And you could also say since most if not all of the resistance leaders will have been rebels, them going for fighter they now work over new designs is plausible, but I agree they should have been more variety.
Odd you didn't mention anything about the first order lacking variety in its starfighers?
@@supernaturalstudies6736 well because I wanted depth to width, I went all in on the resistance because there new ideas have been shit, the first order have one new idea, kylo rens ship, and that thing is pretty sweet, oh yea and I think there was a unique transport on the last jedi battle scene, but I don't care about that cause I don't remember much about ut
@calebbarnhouse496 okay, fair. The transports are okay, but silly, they have the opening ramp at the front, sending the troopers staight into enemy fire. If it was the empire, it'd be fine since they can lose a few troops, no problem, but the first order need every trooper they can get, I think it's just silly.
I don't like Kylo's fighter, again its just another tie. Is it better, yes, but then why not make it the standard, why stick with the objectively worse tie figher. They keep trying to make the tie fighter work, and they just don't. I can't think of one-time ties that have proven themselves to effective bur for some reason, imperials can seem to stop using them.
@@supernaturalstudies6736 I actually forgot about that first order transport, I think the one I was talking about was closer to a lamda then that one, having said that I liked the front facing ramp, it's dumb, but it fits the idea that the soldiers exist to fight and the first order doesn't care about them
Thanks Mar Mar for editing this. She is awesome and does good work
It’s not pictured in this video, but I love the design of the T-85 x wing despite its lack of missile launchers.
That seems like a serious drawback for a starfighter.
As we all know if a military vehicle gets legendary status it will continue to he used for decades
That’s why the US military continues to roll out new versions of the M4 Sherman tank and continues to fly the P51 Mustang
The US Air Force is still operating 150 F-15C Eagles, a 45-year-old fighter. Actually they're working on retiring the F-15C this decade, and are planning to replace most of them with a "brand new" plane ... the F-15EX Eagle II
#AskEck I've had the idea for a little while now that Lucasfilm should pursue adapting George Lucas's sequel treatments in comic form and getting Lucas himself to consult on it. This may sound like an out-there idea but Lucas was clearly unhappy that the story of his sequels was never told, he's had a life long love of comic books as a medium and even though he's retired, he's always been happy to consult on projects whenever Lucasfilm have asked him to (Solo, The Mandalorian, Dial of Destiny, etc). For Lucasfilm's part, they're fine with producing non canonical content like Visions and the rumored 'What if?' series. Marvel Comics has also just announced they'll be publishing 'What if?' Alien comics and Dark Horse recently published a comic adaption of one of James Cameron's old drafts for an Avatar sequel, so I don't see why Lucasfilm can't get either company to give Star Wars the same treatment. It could even be nice way to celebrate the upcoming 10 year anniversary of the beginning of the sequel trilogy, taking a look at what it could have been. So, what are your thoughts on this? Do you think it's an idea Lucasfilm should pursue?
when you realize all Disney Star Wars material is repurposed OG concept art, you realize how little interest they have in making anything new.
“Uncircumcised Y wing”
Yep that’s gonna be hard to forget.
Unless the New Republic ordered a new batch of B-Wings post RotJ, which wouldn't jive well with the whole demilitarization plotline, I can't see any way that a meaningful number of them would end up in Resistance hands. The ship was designed by a rebel sympathizer during the Dark Times, would've been pretty hard to produce, let alone maintain. I almost feel like what we see in RotJ is more or less what exists as far as B-Wings go. I mean, the Rebel Alliance are the exclusive manufacturers at the time and the Battle of Endor seems like it involves most, if not all, of the Alliance Fleet. Unless I'm missing something, these ships should be really, really, really rare.
And Y-Wings were already being held together by melted-duraplast and duct-tape before the Battle of Yavin. At least those were mass-produced by the Old Republic, so a large surplus at least makes sense. Still just doesn't feel thought out, though.
The exclusive manufacturer wasn’t the Alliance by Slayin & Korpil a Verpine shipwright which was still active at the time of the Sequels. Even if we buy this demilitarizing crap for a second, the Verpine would make more B-Wings or more new starfighters just because they can. It is what they do make advanced ships and equipment.
Its hilarious how SW has basically a comic book sliding scale on tech.
On the one hand the xwing has had multiple models created, but the hammerhead been around forever with little change.
Then you have fighters from prehistory that seem to be able to keep up with modern ship stats.
Youve got how many planets and species able to develop new stuff, but in 25k years weve seen what? maybe 50 designs mentioned?
I want to see a B-wing paint scheme that when viewed from the left makes it look like the pilot is flipping you off with an extended arm brandishing a middle laser finger.
They're lazy because JJ didn't know what he was doing.
Fun Fact: This video spends 11:25 more minutes thinking about "Why?" certain rebel ships were used than Dizney ever spent
It absolutely makes since for backwater worlds strapped for cash to buy obsolete military equipment. It happens all the time in our own history. After World War 2, surplus tanks and planes from all sides were given out to anyone that wanted them. The US Army was still fielding Sherman tanks during the Korean War because of reliability issues with the new Pershing tanks. Many European countries inherited German equipment. For a while the French Army had Panther and Tiger tanks. Czechoslovakia upgraded their German fighters for a while, and eventually donated them to Israel. Israel fought it's Independence War using mostly donated WW2 vintage equipment, and even had their own version of the "Tie-Ugly" by combining parts from several different fighters to make a working one. The Soviet Union gave away T-34 tanks to any country that claimed they were socialist.
Every country that fought in WW2 still had and used equipment from the First World War, some ships in the US and Royal Navy were build BEFORE WW1.
I could go on, but the point is that governments never throw away stuff if they can help it. I can absolutely believe that the Resistance was maybe stealing gear from New Republic warehouses or that Outer Rim worlds gave them some old star fighters they had in mothballs.
You are leaving out a few things here. First the Sherman used in Korea was the Easy Eight from the absolute tail end of the war. Second the Panther was phased before the decade ended I could find no evidence the Tiger I or Tiger II were used at all after the war ended. Third Israel and Czechoslovakia are not big powers so it is a bad example to use. Fourth. You ignore what capacity The WWI equipment was used in. It was almost used for rear-echelon personnel and rarely ever on the frontlines. Fifth when it comes to warships you ignore how both warships are built for decades of service and that interwar treaties by the victorious Allies meant every major player in the war except for Germany and the Soviet Union were forbidden for several years to make new Battleships and Battlecruisers and in almost all cases the WWI-era ships were extensively refitted in the interwar period. Germany itself only used some WWI-era ships as they were all they were allowed by the Versailles Treaty and the Soviet Union had to finish the ships which were waiting the in dry docks since the Russian Revolution and subsequent Russian Civil War started before they could make any new ones and the Soviet Navy itself was a historical footnote compared to the navies of the other major Allied and Axis nations.
Another factor could be just who's building this Resistance-presumably Leia's not just grabbing senators, since frankly the whole point is that the Senate doesn't believe in the threat (or at least a majority isn't helping), presumably she's grabbing whoever she can get ahold of-and a lot of her initial picks are almost certain to be former Rebels, all of whom are already trained on the A, B, X, and Y-wings and so would favor them or their 'descendants'. Because by this point these initial recruits are, well, old, they then wind up training the new recruits, naturally picking them out according to similar rules for how they picked Rebel pilots, and hey-if the models are slightly old, well, that just makes them easier to get ahold of. It's not like they have any reason to expect the Empire to suddenly have worthwhile fightercraft anyways.
The A-Wing getting more production seems iffy. It was explicitly described as so hard to properly fly it was only the best of the best who could effectively fight with them. They were originally based on a fighter designed for Jedi, after all.
Actually the oldest inspiration was the Aurek-class which was standard issue for Republic pilots.
Like, sure. I can see where the idea comes from in this. "The starfighters used by the Rebels are legendary because they were pivotal in defeating the Empire." I can see how they become incredibly popular and famous... And though stuff like the T-70 and T-85 seemed like reasonable upgrades to the T-65B, the A-Wing, B-Wing and Y-Wing did not. I feel like their designs should have been a bit more drastic. Just look at the Z-95 to ARC-170 to T-65B design language, they all share similar characteristics but are vastly different. Meanwhile, the T-70 has just different engines pretty much.
But sure, let's say the Resistance had these ships because they were donated to them and all that... And besides, the Z-95, ARC-170 and T-65B are likely all just different models, it sorta sits within their names even. Like, there might be a T-50 or a Z-75 or a ARC-100 too, who's to say? Incom Corporation and Sublights products corporation likely made similar models of various different starfighters, some we have never even seen yet either.
But what makes me even more livid is the First Order TIE Fighter... Seriously... So the Empire made the TIE Interceptor as a means to phase out TIE Strafighters, though they ended up being used in tandem with one another. TIE Starfighters was after all cheaper and easier to mass produce than TIE Interceptors.
So, the TIE Interceptor is in essence the next-gen TIE Starfighter... Why then does the First Order think backwards and RE-INTRODUCE a modified variant of the TIE Starfighter, when it makes more sense if they made a modified TIE Interceptor? Or hell, what about a TIE Defender or TIE Avenger type starfighter? Why the same bloody design the Empire used to ineffective effect against the Rebels??? THAT I never truly understood. Like is it because it's cheaper? The First Order is less about the expendable soldiers than the Empire is, the First Order is more elite, one might say. Their Stormtroopers have better training. Hell, why not go for a fleet of TIEs similar to the one used by Vonreg? or a TIE Silencer like Kylo Ren uses? At least that one looks like it makes sense!
I swear to God, Sienar-Jaemus have no clue what they are doing...
I cometary agree. I was expecting TIE Interceptors in TFA and was very disappointed.
the B-Wing was really done dirty by the new canon. turning a legends fighter/attacker craft into a bomber slower than the decades older Y-Wing. Squadrons redeemed it a little, but damn my boy got screwed.
I'm not exactly sure what the canon was on it at the time, but it was a pretty lumbering craft in Rogue Leader on Gamecube as well.
From the novels, I mostly remember it being armed to the teeth.
@JonSmith-hk1bq Yeah, it kinda depends on the media. For Legends novels, TIEs went 100 MGLT, X-W 80, Y-W 70, Slave I 70 and B-W 60. For the XvT games, TIEs and X-Ws were equal at 100 MGLT, while the B-W flew 91 MGLT, faster than the Y-W's 80 (which is weird because the Slave I also flew 91 MGLT, even though Slave I and Y-W is said to fly at the same speeds).
@@AetherStryfe Well there's a caveat with XvT: The B-wings were "faster" than the Y wings, but they had a massive hitbox and the 3 lasers/ion cannons sucked up so much juice you had to pump that extra engine energy into the shields and weapons leaving it frustratingly slow lol
Because Disney's purchase of Lucasfilm came from a source of greed, the antithesis of artistic creativity. That greed carried over into the Sequels as Disney/LucasFilm tried to capitalize off the nostalgia of the OT by essentially rehashing the OT for the first 2 episodes of the ST, then rehashed the Dark Empire with 9 as damage control from 8.
I wish they rehashed Dark Empire, because the plot is nothing alike, just a mcguffin chase and another ROTJ throne room scene.
I liked the enhancement to the X-wing lines that produced the ChaseX and StealthX in the EU. They also had a few other ships added in from time to time, like the Mandalorian Basalisk (I can't remember how to spell the official name anymore), or the Chiss Clawcraft. But in order for that nostalgic feeling to hit, Disney Star Wars is stuck relying on the purely familiar. They can't make something original or new and still have the audience go "oh, that's a [blank]."
I still think they could've made something stronger by going for original ships and characters, though. They trapped themselves too deeply, and then they failed to show that they cared at all. Which brings audiences to the same thought: If they don't care, why should we?
Because what South Park said in 2015: civilization destroying nostalgia
If George had down the sequels there certainly would have been a lot more bold and varied designs front and centre, just like he did with the PT. He could have used things like X-Wings etc for the clones but he didn't. We know from Bob Iger's book that George got angry when he saw The Force Awakens complaining "There's nothing new". JJ hates the PT and played it far to safe by not using new designs for just about anything. At least Rian tried with the bombers, they looked very different but their design as craft to use in battle in the story sucked ass. Remember "Bombers keep that formation tight" that way when one blows up for a couple of shots two others do too.
idk how JJ felt on the prequels, but the fans certainly still hated them when TFA was in production, so a lot of its returning to OT themes and designs was specifically reacting to fan criticism. A flaw that is shared by the whole ST tbh.
Also, you comment about the TFA bomber makes me think you maybe misunderstood the scene, or maybe have just never rewatched it/not watched it in a long time. If you are interested in a discussion about it, you can say so, if not, i wish you a good day.
@@OlochguNo he didn’t.
@@emberfist8347 I'm unsure what you are referring to. Could you elaborate?
@@Olochgu OP didn't misunderstand the scene it was textbook stupid tactics.
@@emberfist8347 it's obviously not ideal tactics, the movie itself even draws attention to that. But that's not because the Resistance were idiots or because the writers didn't know what they were doing, but because the Resistance was desperate and had to resort to using ships build for a different purpose, in bad formations, to even have the smallest chance of accomplishing their target.
Honestly this should have been a deisgn slam dunk: First Order obsessed with the past, the Resistance flying whatever the heck they could get hold of: M3A Sycks, Mining Ties...
The idea of the Resistance using MilSurp honestly *isn't* a bad idea...but we should definitely see a lot more variety to what they use than what we do, especially in TFA (where they don't have *anything* but the new model X-Wing). Think about how cool it'd have been to see them using Venator Star Destroyers or Lucrehulks, or watching First Order TIEs mix it up with ARC-170s and Vulture Droids. But no, just like everything else about the current continuity, it's more about brand recognition than logic or world building.
To be fair it'll be completely unrecognizable if they used new ships. Would look like some new sci-fi franchise because they often fail to follow McQuarrie rules of design.
Prequels have the advantage of using existing characters and keeping them consistent with the OT unlike ST which just shoves the OT trio into the background.
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о I don't agree, especially if they'd used EU ships, which borrow design elements from OT and PT ships, the way Filoni does. You can't look at the E-Wing or the K-Wing or the Claw Craft and not immediately understand these are all Star Wars ships.
@@AJadedLizard well, I don't think we'll see EU designs reused, instead we'll see something similar to Mandator IV and Resurgent that kinda don't scream Star Wars ship. Or the TLJ bomber, which is super generic. It'll be even less recognizable as Star Wars and look more like a spoof of the franchise.
@@АлексейМомот-щ7оExcept new Sci-Fi franchises have some good designs like the Solar Sailers from Avatar that could land on a planet use their exhaust to clear the landing zone.
The lack of innovative new ship designs was SUCH a let down for the sequels. I loved that the prequels gave us a lot of GREAT stuff. I liked this "journey" method for the video.
In terms of the writers of the sequels, I understand why they went back to the X-Wing and Tie Fighter for Force Awakens. Same reason they had another planet killing weapon. They wanted to draw on the popularity of these things from the OT. And honestly, I loved TFA. But once that movie was done and they established how the torch was being handed over, they should have brought in fresh ship designs. Eck's video tries to make sense of the decision to re-use all 4 Rebel ships, and he did a great job with it. But there was no reason they couldn't have done something new in TLJ and ROS.
The real answer is of course, Disney doesn't want to fund new unproven toy lines. there is a reason we had no new merch released for the new movies/shows until after they were basically all done, and instead got the OG toys re-re-re-released again with a new box. Disney won't open to new designs because they mean less profit in either designer fees, toy production spool-up, or royalties for old designs.
If Disney wanted to make an original trilogy, they could have decided to do it. Complete with a new artistic vision and aesthetics of the post-Empire galaxy. They did not!
Time will tell how successful their long term strategy with their shiny billion dollar IP acquisition is.
@@littlekong7685 "Of course?" Disney makes new product ALL THE TIME. All of those movies they made the past 2 years that bombed? (Lightyear, Little Mermaid, etc) New toy product for every one of them. Not to mention that the ships are still different. They can't just re-use the original tooling, they are all completely new designs though influenced heavily by OT. This is a ridiculous take.
I imagine the resistance looking around at the world around them and thinking, "I wish my writers weren't so terrible."
I literally laughed out loud when you said the clone wars era y-wing was uncircumcised, 🤣
The sequel x-wing engines and wings always bother me. They took a craft balanced between firepower & speed (with slight preference to speed/agility) and made it look more fragile. It looks like it's supposed to be the new A-wing, but then... What's the purpose of the new A-wing itself? The engines used to be round - makes sense for an engine which uses rotary parts in a cylinder. But slitting it into 2 "hemispheres" really doesn't make sense for any reason. It would just be and entirely new, non-cylinderical engine. Making the top & bottom wing pieces fit into each other just to get a single flat plane doesn't make sense either. It introduces mechanical complications while providing no practical benefits (hard to argue wind resistance as any issue). And the decease in wing material makes the craft appear so much more fragile. The entire design motif of the Sequels is all about "wouldn't it be cool if..." and zero focus on things actually making sense. Star Wars isn't "real" sci Fi, so they didn't need to have all the science thought out - we only need enough to say "yeah this is something that makes sense" and move on. But when things don't make sense it's easy to get distracted and caught up on them
Easily one of the Resistance videos out there!
Disney could have easily brought in Expanded Universe designs like the E-Wing, M-Wing, and the epic K-Wing. Instead, they just recycled older designs because they're creatively bankrupt.
The Resistance either has dumb designs that hurt to watch or just reuse Rebel ships. Neither were a good idea for a faction that suffers from being discount Rebels but worse in any way.
I still demand the K-wing being added to canon
Please do more tactics and structures like the cis navy structure and ranks
Appreciated this type of video for sure. It’s a nice added touch to what would otherwise be a typical lore video
Everything about Disney's Star Wars was super bloody lazy (except Rogue One). The ST was the PT and OT rehash.
I think it’s kind of sad how creatively bankrupt the sequels were. With the prequels, when you saw a Venator and an AT-TE with clone batallions by the dozen or a MTTs supported by Hailfire droids or the AATs mixed with super battle droids, everyone cheered and epic fanfare was playing and it was so beautiful. But instead we got basically a rebel and empire 2.0, but that’d be an insult to a second revision, it’s more like rebel and empire 1.2
well when fans keep screaming about how they hated the prequels and how all their designs sucked, i think it's definitely understandable that LF wanted to go back to the roots with the Resistance and FO.
@@Olochgucan you find people actually saying the designs in prequels sucked?
#AskEck what do you think of ECHenry's designs?
I never really had an issue with the Resistance using some of the sameish ships. But the fact they had literally no new designs for dogfights was just lazy.
The other shocker was the FO. Ties clearly weren't the best choice and yet they doubled down on them, to the point one even has a gunner. They should have focused more or the ships that were more successful at defeating the Rebels (such as the Interceptor). At least the FO did have a couple varients of the Interceptor. They just still treated it as a special craft instead of a standard craft.
The resistance ships weren’t lazy, the writers are the lazy ones
Disney Star Wars, in a nutshell:
Who will out-stupid whom first: the good guys, or the bad guys?
More like 'Why are Star Wars writers so damn talent-less'
That sandtrooper assaulting the beach of Kashyyyk just looks so right btw, I'd love if the "new" BF release included such cool mods
I feel the best representation of post war star ship designs is by EC Henry. His concept for Y-Wings and B-Wings being more support vessels rather than attack shuttles is an interesting take on the New Republic’s anti-war bills. Check him out if ya wanna see his amazing Star Wars content
While I dislike the sequels, the concept of it being Rebels 2.0 vs Empire 2.0 is... interesting. I have a love-hate relationship with it. On one hand, in universe it means that this tech was good enough to make new models, but out of universe it's like they don't care to make new stuff.
"The republic era Y-wing was uncircumcized." WIll remain in my head rent free forever
Honestly sounds a little like the situation with Ukraine at the moment, the larger Republic doesn't really want to acknowledge the first order threat and break out into full war, but some planets and groups will donate surplus and outdated ships and equipment for someone else to fight for them.
I think the force awakens had a lot of potential that to explore a two nation galaxy, with a declining republic giving ground to a (up until the firing of the starkiller base) relatively tolerated imperial remnant. Its a shame that nostalgia for the original trilogy and a lack of planning hampered the world building potential.
Overreacting to criticism is where a lot of the flaws in the sequels came from.
If the Resistance was that hard up for fighters, it probably would have made more sense for them to have surplus TIES in their ranks. Lucas knows there sure were a lot of them! But that's the *bad guy* ship, so damn logic.
as long as it's not those god awful bombers
being literal B-17 flying fortress dropping literal bombs IN SPACE
Regarding the X-wing l. I was completely fine with it. It’s super iconic and I love the fact that it is similar but way more streamlined. It looks like an updated x-wing. The issue is they did that with every ship….. and the xwing is the only one that looks new rather than just a modification
I wish they introduced a new version of the Z-95 since we never saw it in live action. Call it the Z-105 Bloodhunter
The BTA-NR2 Y-Wing being in-universe nostalgia bait is such a horribly contrived scenario that it somehow loops back to being acceptable in my mind. The whole "here have a worse version of a thing you loved" situation is nothing if not relatable.
Pablo needs to take the job seriously or quit lmao. Didn't he brag about spending hours with JJ Abrams on a phone talking to him about lore, why couldn't he ask him to make ships more original or reuse ships from EU?
Then he makes a 180 stance that he never liked TFA and writes lore like this for TROS.
So the in universe and real world explanations are the same...brand recognition
Did the Legends version of these companies not care about brand recognition?
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о the legends version of those companies didn't have to experience 10 years of fans screaming at them how bad the prequels were and how all their new designs sucked and how they wanted their X-Wings and Tie-Fighters back.
@@Olochgu they can't hear that, they're fictional ;)
@@Olochgu that never happened
@@louischerik4557 i know it's popular to pretend that the star wars fandom was all peace and flowers before the sequels, but that was not the case. You can try to deny it all you want, but the Prequel hate was real and it was immense. It was part of why Lucas even sold the franchise.
The RZ-2 going faster "because its slimmer" is an odd phrasing BUT a reduction in volume = reduction in mass = increase in power : weight = faster. It makes sense with the miniaturization of hyperdrives and abandonment of hyperspace rings for ships in its class around that time, especially with the other "standardised modifications". A-wings are densely packed by design so they'd likely have similar average density, which would make volume the deciding factor if the engine doesn't change too much.
Also, starfighters do enter and fight in atmosphere regularly and I'd assume the requirements on your particle shield's scale up as you get less aerodynamic. So being more aerodynamic would decreases the weight overhead at a given in atmosphere performance for shield systems. In comparison TIE fighters are unshielded, don't handle in atmosphere fantastically and rely on repulsors, which are vulnerable to even basic energy shielding.
Yeah this video format works well. You've been consistently my favorite Star Wars content creator in part because you do switch things up.
The only good thing about the final space battle was when Palps agreed with us on how stupid it was, and just fried the whole thing. No fleet, no tactics, just a bunch of copy and pasted ships flying in circles. Disney seriously just copied every single bit of the final battle of Avengers: Endgame, and replaced the Marvel stuff with Star Wars stuff. Good guys fight, almost loose, are saved by a huge fleet, almost loose again, but then the hero saves the day and dies in the process. No new ships, no new battle, just everyone vomiting on each other until one side wins by default because the bad guy disappears due to his own power being used against him. UGH! Couldn't even give us a good space battle!
I love TCW era of *uncircumcised* Y-wing
Because under Disney Lucasfilm recycled old rejected Ralph MacQuarrie designs. If you have enough art of star wars books, you can see all the pilfering.
The reason they don't look as good as the old stuff is because they were rejected or remade to work.
They're literally giving us garbage.
For the RZ-2, Making it a bit longer and such to be a little faster is more about balance and the leverage of the RCS and thrust vectoring systems, making the ship overall more controllable and confidence inspiring. This allows the pilot to feel more able to push the A-wing, a fighter infamous for being a touchy and skiddish ship demanding a master to fly even remotely as intended, much closer to its limits and so faster.
I think the same way. The RZ-2 likely fixed the flaws of the RZ-1 that made it so dangerous to pilots. It likely still needs above average skill to pilot, but is much safer and forgiving than its predecessor
To play Devil's Advocate for a moment, the New Republic fleet in Legends often fielded ships that were identical or very similar to those of the Rebel Alliance, with authors frequently turning to the same old OT designs despite stories like Dark Empire introducing all sorts of cool new ones. It wasn't until the very end of the Galactic Civil War that the NR fleet started properly upgrading with New Class Modernization ships.
But yeah, I'm not going to let Abrams and company off the hook for their laziness and over-reliance on 'member berries. It's one thing when you're a single author writing a book for a niche audience; it's another entirely when you're making a blockbuster film with a practically infinite budget and the most talented artists, designers and special effects teams Hollywood can buy. The new lore does kind of soften the blow, but it's still a messy retcon that didn't have to exist if they had just showed a little more creativity in the first place.
Except they didn’t the X-Wing from the Jedi Academy Trilogy was different beast from the ones from the films.
@@emberfist8347how different?
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о It is faster than the A-Wing (keep in mind the A-Wing is canonically the fastest ship of the Galactic Civil War) armed with heavy laser cannons, has more proton torpedoes. And is stated to have little to have little in common with the models from OT. This variant is called the T-65AC4.