MIG KILLER: The USAF's First MiG Kill In Vietnam Was By An F-100 Super Sabre
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ค. 2023
- On April 4th 1965, 48 F-105 Thunderchiefs attacked the Dragon's Jaw Bridge in North Vietnam. MiG-17s arrived and bounced a flight of Thuds as they waited to attack. Minutes later the ResCAP flight of F-100D Super Sabres from the Silver Knights found themselves under attack by four MiG-17s from the 921st Fighter Regiment.
During that engagement, Captain Don Kilgus engaged Li Minh Huan in a dogfight and shot his MiG-17 down. This was the only air-to-air kill made by the Super Sabre in over 350,000 sorties over Vietnam. After the US losses on April 4th, F-4 Phantoms took on all MIGCAP sorties, marking the beginning of one of history's great air-to-air matchups.
Kilgus' story is both thrilling and fascinating. His skill and experience enable us to reach some broader conclusions about pilot quality, TAC and VPAF tactics in the early period of the Vietnam War, which will be useful in subsequent videos about dogfighting in Vietnam.
In making this one, I found myself a little in awe of Don Kilgus. An immensely skilled and brave aviator. I hope I've done him and the Silver Knights justice in this retelling.
Notes & Sources:
Extracts from the Don Kilgus interview: www.defensemedianetwork.com/s...
Multiple perspectives on the story and the full Kilgus interview that I narrate in the video: supersabresociety.com/wp-cont...
Reference for Don Kilgus' shoot down during the Son Tay raid: supersabresociety.com/this_ti...
Brilliant work dude. I’d not come across this event myself, loved your video on the F-102’s MiG encounter as well. Don Shepperd’s book ‘Bury Us Upside Down’ is a great read on the Misty ops. If you haven’t already read, I’m sure you’d appreciate it. Looking forward to the next video!
I have read it, a keeper in my library 👍
my Uncle flew for the JASDF and he told my brothers when they were young that during the 1960s and 70s he was able to fly the F-100 when they did joint training with the USAF on Misawa AFB.
He always wanted the JASDF to adopt it but he went on to fly the F-4EJ.
I love fighter Jets because of my family members joining the JASDF, I married an American who grew up on Misawa
The account by the pilot involved is quite something - thank you.
Narration was respectful to all who fought day. I appreciate that.
The thought of F-100's trying to escort F-105's makes me think how challenging that must have been. Even loaded with bombs the 105 was significantly faster than the F-100.
A friend of my older brother's was an Air Force pilot. Flew F-100s, F-101s and a F-4s in Viet Nam including Wild Weasel missions. After he got out of the military, he flew for American Airlines and eventually retired as a 777 Captain.
I was in SE Asia about this time as an engine mechanic on F-100s. There's a good chance I worked on all of those planes in that flight, so it is interesting to see a clip like this.
Thanks
Most of us where our careers like a poorly crafted suit. It doesn't really fit us but it will do until we find a replacement or no longer need it. Don Kilgus could have been a door-to-door vacuum salesman. He could have been a restaurant manager or a car mechanic, but he wasn't. Don Kilgus was born into this world to be a fighter pilot. That was his gift.
One of the reasons Kilgus’ kill wasn’t confirmed was his planes gun camera had failed. The sprockets to advance the film just tore up the film. I don’t think Johnson’s administration would have let them confirm it with film. Regarding the other two Vietnamese pilots yes, the USA does know what happened to them. If you check the Red Baron reports for this action look at Zinc 3’s account. Zinc 3 ended up with the other 2 Mig’s behind him and decided to dive to get away. He went as low possible before pulling out. Climbing up the 2 Mig-17s rocketed by him diving, one still in afterburner, to low too pull out. Zinc 3 was flown by Vern Kulla his name became known in 2019 with the publishing of “Dragon’s Jaw” by Stephen Coonts & Barrett Tillman.
It's interesting to compare this battle to a similar incident later in the Vietnam War, in which Robert Dilger engaged a Mig-17, and outmaneuvered it so completely that he literally ran it into the ground. Dilger was credited with a confirmed kill for this action, and he went on to eventually be promoted to Lieutenant Colonel, and be assigned to the role of program management for several USAF programs (notably the development and acquisition of 30mm ammunition for the A-10).
I suspect the reason why Don Kilgus and Robert Dilger were given different treatment for what was essentially an identical achievement was the USAF's attitude toward the aircraft they flew. At the start of the Vietnam War, the USAF's leadership had strong political incentive to promote the "Golden Child" F-4 Phantom II (Dilger flew an F-4), while rug-sweeping the "Scapegoat" F-100. The then-new F-4 was viewed as proof that the system's decisions were right, while the USAF viewed the F-100 as an obsolete shibboleth they had to be rid of ASAP (to make room for more F-4s).
The leadership of the USAF is infamous for this kind of thing --- but that's a rant for another time.
Very interesting info, thanks. Always wondered why the Super Saber seemed to get shafted historically.
The brass always wants the newest thing, even after they get it
That's the type of video that I find most interesting; perfect video, my friend.
Thank you for this incredible presentation about the courage of our pilots ….especially in the early stages of the Vietnam War.
To be fair, quite a lot of F-100 sorties were as forward air control, not as a fighter, so the sortie:kill discrepancy isn’t as stark as it seems. The story of the “MISTY” Fast FACs is another interesting facet of the Hun service record.
Thanks for the comment. I agree on the FAC - I’m thinking about a video on them, although afraid that the channel is being taken over by Super Sabres :)
The F-100 was employed only briefly in the air-to-air role and the great majority of its work was interdiction and close air support, for which the C and D models had been produced. The Misty FACs were indeed a very daring part of its prodigious SEA service.
Fast fac and mud bombers , heros to the guys on the ground . Same for the B52's
I’d call Misty Fast FAC a niche role. Not “quite a lot.”
The F100 was built in an era that aircraft were evolving so fast that they could be obsolete in 2 years. People that criticize it forget how groundbreaking the F100 was. There must be some reason the Thunderbirds used it for so long.
If you put a pointy nose on an F-100, and move the air intake to the sides, it looks a lot like the F-105.
They were available, not very good though. I went to grade school with two kids whose fathers were killed in F-100’s at Homestead AFB Florida. When test pilots were employed to evaluate the new F-100 they recommended not buying them. They were dangerous at low speed as well as high speed.
@@keithsargent6963 at that time sadly there was very much a lot of times when "dangerous but the least dangerous" was often the best option
Both the MiG-17 and the F-100 were successors to their famous Korean War counterparts. The F-100 may have been outdated, but it was the perfect foil against the MiG.
Nice analysis and conclusion. You put a lot of work into this! Well done!
It was always said F-4s from the USS Midway scored the first MIG kills of the Vietnam War.
Ironic Vietnam confirmed the kill.
FABULOUS BRIEF/STORY, BRAVO ZULU!!
I really appreciate your analysis and observations on the videos I've watched from you so far, this one included.
I served 4 years back in that era...early 70's. never went overseas, and was never impressed with the reasons we were there. Howevah', this dog fight story caught my attn. Feel bad for the Mig driver, too. Thanks.
My USAF time was late 1970s. I served at Tyndall AFB, Fl. as an avionics tech on T-33A, F-101B/F and F-106A/B. We had a bunch of QF-100 and QF-102 target drones operated by Sperry-Rand.
The f 100 was always my favorite jet. In the 1970s they used to fly over my house in north Atlanta all the time. Later in life I learned that this incident occurred the day I was born. April 4 1965
Really first rate stuff -- great narrative style and unbelievable stories!
Thank you!
Great presentation. Thanks
Great video, thanks.
I follow a good number of military aviation channels on youtube, and yours has just become my favorite. Great job man! Super entertaining video
Really great channel, glad I happened upon it!
Great vid mate!
Thanks!
Great vid! Hope you did one about the F106 Delta Dart
Thanks! Good vid.
Man I love this channel
Well presented account.👍🏻
Thank you.
Great commentary. I forgot the 4× 20 mm ,M39 guns around the nose. Great narrative..more. Weapons guys never heard how well their weapons work in the Air.
Great video dude fkn love the hun. I am not sure you take requests but i would love to see a video abt 104 s in the vietnam campaign
Why, they were a complete failure.
One of my friends flew a 104 there, I'm interested as well.
@@chriscarbaugh3936 They were not a complete failure. They kept MiGs from attacking the assets for which they flew escort or BARCAP, and even performed successful ground attack missions.
The _F-100 Super Sabre_ is a REALLY COOL looking fighter.
Kind of sad that he flew that many combat missions in the Super Sabre and the Thud, but was killed in a car. Says a lot about highway safety.
Basically you are claiming that driving on a highway is more dangerous than being a fighter pilot in war...
@@stejer211 I didn't claim anything troll. Just said that it was sad that a car accident claimed him after a career as a combat pilot. Lousy drivers on the roads.
@@kevinmccorkle7476 That's not what you said, read your OP again.
And is berating people how you win arguments?
@@stejer211 I didn't berate anyone, I only described your actions.
@@kevinmccorkle7476 You clearly called me troll. This is the second time you say something and then deny it afterwards.
Captain KIlgus did 5 very dangerous tours in Nam and dies in a car accident when he is retired. That's like in one of the recent mass murders, a woman in her nineties got shot and died. You go through your whole long life and some nutcase shoots you for his own insane reason and sends you out in a violent death. It's a crazy world.
Yes. And all the despots and communist and fascist dictators and all the wars they caused trying to take land that wasn’t theirs, cutting tens of millions of lives short, and counting. And yet, there are free people who want to blame it all on the freedom lovers who tried to stop them. Crazy world, indeed. But if not for that, then we’d have no jet combat machines to marvel over. Anyway, here we are. Not criticizing your comment, just adding my thoughts. I’ve been a fan of all these various jets and the history of aviation all my life. I like flying the F-4, F-5, A-4 and F-86, etc. in the DCS simulator in VR. An incredible way to experience these jets as first-hand as possible.
A top pilot.
Respect and salut for vietnames pilot .
They were immensely brave pilots. Given the amount of training they had vs the US pilots, their lack of numbers and the technical deficiencies of their hardware, I'm sure not many people would have been willing to take on the USAF.
"Sea spray on the windshield"❤️
Great video. Very informative. Thanks for taking the time to put these together for our enjoyment and education
“ Education” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@oreticeric8730 What's so funny about that? Do you not learn anything from these videos? I know a lot of military history, but every day is a school day
Great👍👍
Are you going to do a video on the North Vietnam Mig Aces?
Heaven is for Heroes, R.I.P.
Almost forgotten by history. Even the History Channel says nothing about this.
Great stuff as always. Another one to look up. Not sure if there’s much for first hand accounts. But the football war had some of the last combat action of prop vs prop aircraft.
For some reason the Air Force wouldn't give him credit.
It was listed as a "probable" becuse it had been hit, but nobody saw the aircraft destroyed. Thems the rules.
No witness confirmation of kill.
Are the Hun v Fresco clips from a movie?
Amazing how many great pilots have been killed in auto accidents.
I thought dang all those years flying combat and flying after the war to die in an automobile 😢
Similar story with racing drivers, so many end up dying not on the racetrack when doing 150mph, but in regular activities outside of racing.
What foreign film did you use for the footage?
Who was the first MiG kill of the Vietnam War?
Correcting the Record on first confirmed MiG-killing Phantom ...
On their MiG-killing mission of Jun. 17, 1965, Commander Lou Page (pilot) and Lieutenant JC Smith (RIO) were flying F-4B bureau number (buno) 150646 - not 151488 as sometimes reported. This mission is of special interest as it was the first confirmed MiG kill of the Vietnam War
Nice CGI as Good as the History Channel Series "Dogfights"
Thanks again for another truly excellent presentation. I've been learning a ton from this channel, and have really been enjoying it.
By the way, would a feature on the Gloster Javelin be a possibility? That was one cool looking aeroplane.
I’m really glad you enjoyed it! Javelin is in production - it’s going to be a bit more in depth than this one so I’m taking my time :).
Fantastic; looking forward to it!@@notapound
Dude did a tour as a Wild Weasel, including expeditious departing an aircraft due to unscheduled disassembly, and then dies in a car crash. Sad man.
I heard that the original F-100 Super Sabre proposal was intended as an improved version of P-86 Sabre. Then with the advent of newer Soviet Heavy Bombers, the F-100 Super Sabre's aerodynamics were altered to fulfill the high altitude and high speed interception criteria, so the F-100 Super Sabre technically became the USAF's first Supersonic Interceptor in history before the F-102 Delta Dagger took flight.
People hear all sorts of things, but there is nothing to indicate the aerodynamics of this aircraft were modified to make it a bomber interceptor. It was designed as an air superiority fighter, and like all such aircraft it was designed to be faster and fly higher than opposing fighters because that conferred advantage in aerial combat. It was later modified to serve as a fighter-bomber. Any fighter can intercept a bomber, but the F-100 didn't even have a radar or radar homing missiles. The F-102 was the first supersonic purpose-built all-weather bomber interceptor, designed to be directed at bombers by ground control until being able to complete the intercept with its own radar and fire radar homing missiles.
What's a P-86? Also what you hear is usually flawed.... that's why there's Google.🤣🤣🤣
@@fighterjetsteve Oh, during induction of the F-86, USAAF still exist, then after the National Security Act, the "Pursuit" changed to Fighter designation.
@ReviveHF the AF changed the designation long before that. The F-80 was the first to be changed from a pursuit designation to the fighter designation. The P-51 designation was also changed to F before the Korean War. The Sabre was never called a "P-86" , that's hogwash.
@@fighterjetsteve I
Plane Encyclopedia lists the XP-86 Sabre as the original designation of the airplane. "In June of 1948, the new US Air Force redesignated all Pursuit aircraft as Fighter aircraft, changing the prefix from P to F. Thus the XP-86 became the XF-86. XP-86 number one was officially delivered to the USAF on November 30, 1948. The three prototypes remained in various test and evaluation roles well into the 1950s, and were unofficially referred to as YP-86s."
Apparently the MiG-17 had the manoeuvrability of a brick above 450 knots.
In Koreabrand new plane but the F-100 became obsolete very quickly. And even guided missiles did not help him, in Vietnam he only performed combat and bombing tasks as an F-105
Which feature film does the aerial combat footage come from?
"The First Swallows (2019)" - A Vietnamese documentary-movie about they first air victories.
@@Sokol10 Thanks a lot!
What film is this video from?
It’s from a Vietnamese documentary called ‘Vietnam Air War - The First Swallows’
I tried to check out your video content, but it says your channel has no content!
I always thought the “Hun” was a great plane. In the hands of a skilled pilot, they are still dangerous.
Mon père a été pilote sur F100 super sabre 11 escadre armée de l air.
What is the name of the background movie?
"The First Swallows (2019)" - A Vietnamese documentary-movie about they first air victories.
What’s this footage from
"The First Swallows (2019)" - A Vietnamese documentary-movie about they first air victories.
"Semper-Fi"
Couldve done without the Steve Bannon ad.
They didn’t want the 1st kill to go to a mere F-100. So they ignored it on behalf of the military industrial complex
The F-100 looks sweet
Is this from a movie?
"The First Swallows (2019)" - A Vietnamese documentary-movie about they first air victories.
Jesus, Killed in a freak'n car crash !!!
God Damn Angel of Death "Never" gives up !!!! 🤔 Sgt, Semper Fi
As cool as it looked the F-100 was not an outstanding airplane. Dangerous at both low and high speed.
Where did that amazing flight footage come from? After all that time in those amazing planes he dies in a lowly auto accident how ironic.😐
"The First Swallows (2019)" - A Vietnamese documentary-movie about they first air victories.
I support our soldiers but believe the Vietnam war and every war we've been in since has been wrong.
It wasn't a lot of fun.
US lost over 3k.fixed wing aircraft in Vietnam that's an ass kicking
My Dad was Waco 1 if you were a F100 pilot trained at Luke you knew my Dad .
昔!!福岡の板付に、居ましたね
Very interesting to know. My b-i-l flew these at Myrtle Beach AF Base late 50s and early 60s. Transferred to Davis-Monthan, then Da Nang. Had F-100s there and, I think some F-4s. As a teen loved hanging out with them and watching the 100s take off and land over the highway and ocean. Wonderful memories to appreciate. So many of those pilots have gone ahead now.
The Colt 20mm worked better on the Hun than the Crusader which consistently jammed due to high G loads. As a result the Crusader never shot down a MiG with cannon.
The Super Sabre did not use the Colt.
It used the Pontiac M39 revolver cannon
Also, the Crusader did score 2 gun kills, though I believe they weren't in turning engagements
Pretty much every big weapon the Soviets make are punching bags.
Guess which US aircraft shot down the first Mig in history? (Korea) 🤔
I'm sure a few Migs were shot down by Bf 109s during WW2.
@@KevinSmith-vv2jd Conceptually correct.
too bad this jet is so usless in warthunder
Mig 15 does not have a after burner!
Sorry! He is fighting a Mig 17!
It's a mig 17F. Has a burner.
You know you can delete a comment, right?
It must have been hard fighting Migs when everything was so pixelated.
I was trying to sift through the bullshit. Skipped the video 😂
Had a friend that lobbed napalm with a 100 as an Assassin. He was good at it.
Took out control targets. All knuckles to the boards at low level all the way. He'd
pull duty sitting in the aircraft under a makeshift awning waiting for the next target.
And they kept coming. All clear daylight missions. After the hit he had to take
photos. A very gruesome job.
sorry I find your narration very drone like. Maybe its your accent that doesn't jive with me.
Thanks for the comment. It is fair to say that I am not renowned for my animation.
A sloppy video featuring phony or fabricated digital clips, bits from movies(?) F-105s, F-4 Phantoms and who know what else with the Super Sabre thrown in. A bad video full of at minimum poor authenticity. By the way, the Mig shot down was forever listed as "probable" only by the Air Force. This video should at least post a disclaimer in at the beginning.
"I didn't see unnah-thing..." Why do Brits pronounce "Anything" like that? It's "Enny-thing".
F 100 Thor Hummer stay at Gate Guardian at Aviano Air Base ,
Home of a
555 Fighter Squadron
Yay! The Triple Nickel!