Yup, its how all those cluster B types act, and you don't want to be friends with ANY of them- a lot of people keep throwing this narc word around when in reality their situation is much worse and scarier because a psychopathic cannibal will act just like a narc because they have Narcissism too, and all the issues that go along with it PLUS some MORE xtra baggage.. like YOU winding up in the baggage in pieces. Please be careful out there people, in this world of Uber drivers and internet dating, bad stuff can happen. It is how it happened to me.
No you have to know what type of therapist you are visiting and we shouldn't need therapy in this world if everyone was forced or chose to take the same oath. No one has an oath to anyone or anything
My ex accepted her toxic behaviour and asked I give her a chance to change. It took her 1 therapy session to convince the therapist she was the victim and come back to me saying "see, they think you're the problem too!" Was actually good for me to realise that even a professional cannot help her.
The Perry Como theme song regarding change in narcissistic behaviour - "It's Impossible". It's impossible, tell the sun to leave the sky it's just impossible. It's impossible, tell a narc to stop their lies it's just impossible. Can a narc change? It's just impossible.
So you diagnosed your partner, your partner listens, speaks to a qualified mental health professional,and reports the qualified medical opinion is that you might be the problem. Have you ever considered giving your partner the same consideration that you might be wrong and get a qualified medical opinion on yourself? Also, did your partner find a therapist who treats NPD, or did your partner go to a" life coach" who treats people claiming to be victims of narcissistic abuse?
@normanreichwald6158 great questions. So firstly I did nothing to diagnose my partner. I raised concerns about a pattern of behaviour that I felt was toxic. It seemed to fit with npd but as you rightly assume I am not a qualified professional. One of the forms of this toxic behaviour was to describe a situation but deliberately leave out any details or context that would paint her in a bad light. Thus when family or friends would challenge me regarding these situations they would suddenly find out that the situation was completely different. When asked about this she would explain it with "but if I'd told them that they would have hated me" or some such variation. Secondly I have received support from a professional who specialises in victims of npd. Lastly no the therapist she went to was not trained in npd and sadly just reinforced her victim mentality.
@nietwojinteres7278 because most therapists are scarily not trained to deal with npd, and someone with npd has spent a lifetime working out how to manipulate people. Search up Dr Ramani when you get a chance.
They will make your life a nightmare. You can speak to them in the nicest possible way and they will still snap on you and twist everything you say. Manipulate it so you apologize. Not only did I go through that nightmare during the relationship I'm now dealing with the aftermath. Peace, love and light to everyone ❤.
My narcissistic ex says that the reason she attacked me was validated by her therapist as “compassion fatigue” for always dealing with my emotions. 😕 just….bizarre.
Wow. I have not heard a therapist explain the relationship that a NPD has with therapy in such a clear manner. I also love the cut-ins with movie clips. I think it makes the production value go up.
Agreed. I found this video after feeling confused and disappointed with how a psychologist was talking about [and arguably confronting] a narcissist mother that has been gaining some attention on YT. The professional was making some claims that didn’t feel appropriate to me (a mere Psych grad), so I wanted to see if anyone had further information on the therapy process for NPD. This video didn’t specifically address what I was looking for, but it does suggest that any confrontational method is ineffective and/or harmful.
My ex covert narc would not go to therapy of any sort. Couples therapy online was attempted but only for me to change. Funny now that I look back on it.
Wild...my ex wife only seems to go to therapy even 7 yrs after our divorce and her infidelity that never stopped, to talk about ME and how she is a perpetual victim. Its always so crazy for me to listen to these videos and realize just how clinical and predictable a narcissist is without ever admitting to, or realizing they are not well
I can relate to this mans story. My ex of 2 years was very toxic. I always thought it was narcacissm but i think she has BPD. She is the victim in every relationship shes been in, every guy was "abusive" and she took no accountability. She lied daily and even cheated in our relationship. She started going to therapy and she got drastically worse. The childhood trauma from her toxic parents has haunted her,her whole life and has caused bpd in her i believe. Shortly after she started therapy i became the villian in her story and we broke up. Although it was hard the first month or so, now 4 months later i feel much healthier and realized i dodged a huge bullet.
I took the time with my bpd partner who eventually made a full recovery, but the experience was life threatening - I agreed to that at the outset and knew about her history of violent behaviour, but there were rays of hope which came to fruition - it was more than worth the effort
@@rhettbaldwin8320 not if the attachment style shifts - when two people are secure in a relationship, there are no mistakes to make. The bpd partner becomes like a brand new person and evolves their own ways to express intimacy which goes far beyond anything I've ever experienced, but very similar to when I re-break a problem pony and they smother me with kisses. There is no going back either way, because the cause was neurosis which begins in childhood and when it has been resolved, there is nothing to tempt that individual back into their old thought patterns. Once you grow into an adult, nothing can turn you back into a child again - that was just the beginning part, things are different now and for always.
My experience: In hind-sight I believe she built her entire persona around getting people to feel sorry for her. Everything from her little-girl voice, to the never-ending and exhausting stream of problems. When I ditched her, she moved onto the next person. I experienced her at the time as drag to be around.
Brother, congrats on getting rid of that toxic relationship. I can say with a hand on my heart that my experience with my covert ex looked similar to yours. Everything from her looks, way of talking, and even in public. But FORTUNATELY we’re able to see right through and know there’s nothing anyone can do to help them. Pff I even tried atleast taking her to church for some type of awakening but forget it. Never happened and never will. . Feel proud that you’ll know at the end. And feel sorry for the next person.
In my experience they like to roleplay the type of manic pixie dream girls you’ll see in movies like Eternal Sunshine or Breakfast At Tiffany’s (my ex’s favourite movies for a reason) - they’ll start off timid and demure, then gently open themselves up to reveal this exciting depth and unpredictability completely unrivalled elsewhere. You’ll feel special because she’s only showing this side of her to you. Once you’re hooked she’ll emotionally dump all of her trauma on you to activate your protective/hero instincts. Then next thing you know you’re being taught what a “twin flame” is. It’s all a mask. I don’t think they actually know who they are. It’s as cold and callous as predators are out in the wild. Very unnerving once you’ve identified how dangerous the intentions are and survived it. Congratulations on setting yourself free, my friend
You definitely had a Narc or historioic. More so a historioic when the two year old shows her self. Your lucky brother. This type is worse of all. They make a Sociopath look empathic. This type tried to murder me.
@@kevinowens6010 histrionic, yes. Screaming tantrums, obsessive blame and an inability to ever let problems go. She was so sweet and nice when I met her and I was young and stupid, so I hung around longer than I should have hoping it would get better.
This video hits the nail on the head once again. I've found it quite surreal. With my vulnerable narcissistic ex girlfriend we started out as "friends through mutual hobby". As long as our relationship didn't have a romantic turn, I've found her quite pleasant to be around. She was a cute and kind girl who always happened to "just have bad luck in everything". But oh my gosh once we started dating, after the mandatory love bombing, she turned out to be absolutely reckless. Her whole personality literally revolved around being a "victim". Romantically: all of her exes were liars and cheaters. Professionally: all of her bosses and co-workers were either hitting on her, harrasing her or being mean to her for no reason. Family: her mom was a helicopter mom, her dad had dementia Sports: people didn't like to compete her because she was above her league Health: she's always had rare diseases which required tons of attention from doctors and people around her. She also combined these things. Almost always when she competed in sports, she got "injured" before or during the competition so she was getting a lot more attention. Sometimes going so far that people were carrying her on their backs to the finish line. Absolute madness. Everything else has been mentioned by Lise in her other videos. My rating is 0/10 stars for dating a person with NPD. Wouldn't recommend.
wow the "helicopter mom" is the reason she was like that in the first place, buzzing about the both of you and your relationship like flies on shit I bet ? Thats what mine did. By the time she was done with me, I was applying for disability and questioning my sanity, especially after being thrown into a mental place for 2 weeks, where I was abused even further and almost killed. When I got back it was all my fault of course and now she pays my lawyer bill, which gives her control AND recognition as the "hero" for getting me out of prison time. I saw a major red flag on the first date, but believe it or not my last date was even worse so I thought I was getting a treat. Far from it. Don't date people from online !! they have had all the time to plot, plan, catfish, and destroy your life before you even meet them. there will be few red flags as she will have figured those out. In the end it wound up the same way as her last ex. (who she still insists its ok to be friends with after 14 years past)
This was my experience EXACTLY 😳 Honestly, we had an objectively great relationship when we were 'just friends', but when we eventually took things a step further, often the very same day, she would develop some rare medical condition, or some problem with her 'crazy' family, or some issue at work, or some problem with me. All of a sudden I had to work overtime to help her, to provide for her, to sympathise with her, to 'win her back', prove my love or worth to her, etc. Most exhausting relationship I ever had, also the most expensive. And here's the kicker, after everything I did for her, she eventually excused ME of being so abusive that she feared for her life - a total lie that she told numerous trusted contacts of mine. EXACTLY what she did with her previous boyfriend, a person who was apparently also so abusive that she feared for her life.!Until the bitter end, I was nice, tried to reason with her, tried to do things for her, tried to be friends. But no, I was brutally discarded and then also slandered behind my back. These people are not well.
This mirrors my current situation, we have only been stable as friends. My wife and I are basically ‘friends with privileges’. I realized long ago that she wasn’t capable of being authentically intimate with me and I accepted it and we have four beautiful children.. unfortunately, she rejected our counseling and won’t take any of the advice, including separation from her affair partner, which is her friends husband. She so expertly manipulated our entire friend group to make this all about me being a bad husband due mistakes of the past, being jealous, insecure, that they are all trying to counsel me. She’s the victim and so justified in her infidelity. Meanwhile, I keep paying the bills, getting the cold treatment, gaslighted, trying to be a good Dad, and not drink away the pain… still, I have hope as a devoted Catholic. Our family prays together still, but it’s a road that I’m still unsure where it will lead. I’m kinda just waiting for her next attempt at NPD supply outside of our relationship.
THANK YOU! I never would have seen myself as a covert narcissist before my daughter confronted me a year ago...twice... before I would take her seriously and look into it. I was appalled to see how much of that list of characteristics I admittedly exhibit! I went to therapy for a few months, but my therapist ended up saying I was NOT a narcissist. I'm even more confused now but feeling like therapy is a waste of time and money because almost EVERY article says we can't/won't change, and yes, the incredibly hard work at 70 sounds like more than I can do to make any significant change.
When i told the therapist what i had gone through with the covert narcissist I was married to for 24 years she told me he sounds like he just has a substance abuse problem! I told her some of the cruel things he's done and said to me and she took his side! Ill never go to therapy again unless they are specifically trained in narcissist abuse. Thank God I was strong she could have sent me over the edge!
I was in an abusive relationship and I know how hard it is to leave and how long it can take to recover, but I also know that part of that recovery process, eventually, also required me to look at why I was in that relationship and what part of me was getting something it needed (in an unhealthy way, of course) from being in that terrible relationship. I think that's a part that's often missing from discussions of toxic relationships with people who may be obviously abusive, mentally and/or physically, or who may suffer from a personality disorder or another difficult mental condition. It's natural to want to understand what you went through or have your trauma validated after feeling so alone in it and so lost for so long, but especially when it happens more than once, we need to ring ourselves to a point where we can interrogate what about us and our behaviors or needs or histories or traits contributes to us entering and/or remaining in relationships with people who are harming us..
I didn't mention I'm a woman. I now see this channel is mostly geared toward men, and I think it's a tremendously needed resource. I think my comment is applicable to both sexes.
Usually it is the people with high empathy and weak boundaries. Either you are one, and I am saying it (without shame, femininity involves vulnerability, flexibility, nativity which are wonderful traits in a healthy scenario ), or you are a stronger person, but wounded, which also leads to weakened boundaries. Also, they are very good manipulators by the fact, they also believe, what they are saying, so they can be very persuasive. It is only the details you can figure out, and by the time they are starting to happen, you are emotionally involved, and now you are desperate trying to fix the relationship. Anxious attachment style is also a huge risk factor to get trapped. But again, even if you were secure, you are prone to became anxious next to an avoidant or a narc. Only exit is when you are able to draw the line, that this was it, no more, and you can stick to it no matter what. Richard Grannon had a good insight to the healing process. "There are times to be yang, but you need to be ying too." You have to be humble, and accept it you are hurt. You need to heal. You need to reflect what led you to there, where you were, what responsibility you have, and what can be done to not be in another one. This does not makes them irresponsible, or makes their deed any better. But looking at the narc, focusing them only will not lead give you all the answers, and until gun is not pressed to your head, you are a free willed person, and also have a responsibility, that you are where you are. Of course self-reflecting on this is also a painful.
It totally depends on whether the narcissist is willing to change. I do have BPD and NPD. My NPD is submissive and covert. When I learned I had this I wanted to change. I don't meet the diagnostic criteria for NPD anymore and all of my BPD symptoms have weakened within the three years since then. I will keep going to therapy, the next will be a DBT therapy beginning in two months to hopefully help me deal even better with the strong emotions I have because of the BPD. But I had a massive crisis and really wanted to change. And I found joy and satisfaction in growth. I know some other NPDs and most are not willing to walk the path I have chosen.
Are you more confident now ? And did you cry in the process, while telling your story and having a therapeutic relationship which allow to « integrate » the trauma ? I think I have these same conditions and I just want to be a normal, confident guy, and I know that by keeping narcissistic tendencies it will not work as it’s not authentic growth
@@commontouch1787 My confidence level is still rather low, but it is slowly rising I think. I don't think you should aim to be a normal and confident guy. Aim at growth and just be open to the process and honest in relationships. If you can reflect your narcissistic traits, you are already far ahead of most people on the journey as most people with NPD or NPD traits won't even admit their flaws. Just keep going and working on yourself!
She once admitted to me that she felt I only went to therapy to learn 'new tactics' on how to manipulate people.....this projection was shocking to me because I know for sure that is not why I have gone to therapy for 10 years yet in that moment I realized that is exactly how she viewed and views therapy - a place where she can learn new tactics to manipulate.
On one hand therapists need to "believe" their patients but as an expert pf psychology they need to always recognize that people with personality disorders are often if not almost always full of shit. They need to read between the lines of what is being told and cross examine the patient otherwise they'll just validate their delusional thoughts and essentially harm the patient by enabling their behavior.
This video is very valuable info. I totally understand what you are suggesting will likely happen. As an HSP deep thinker I have analyzed the reasons for what I see as NPD.. severe childhood neglect. She had a rare drunken meltdown where I witnessed how much oain and shame she feels about her life. Maybe best not to wake those demons more fully in therapy 😢
We saw 2 different therapists. My narc made 100% effort to get the therapist on her side, crying, claiming i had done the things she had done, etc. She used the techniques the therapist suggested to try to “win” even more of the relationship. I “lost” the counseling sessions because i was trying to work on the relationship, not get the therapist on my side.
It is hard to detect covert narcissism, but a therapist should be able to detect it, or at least expect it in my opinion. However their tools are also limited, their job is to try to support you, and also if you are not honest, they cannot see inside you, only detect inconsistencies, and even if they detect, they cannot go like, "ok, you are sus, we are doing an npd test", but even they would do... test is based on honest answers... Only close to certain way to detect it is to be in a relationship with them and monitor them over a yearish period of time at least, meanwhile hoping you are not losing yourself... So.. in the end, it is kind of unresolvable issue. No resolution, no real answers. Only thing one can do is using their feelings, intuitions, and if you feel unsafe, and you tried to work on it without success, then leave, whatever is explanation is. You can only safe yourself, you can only reflect on yourself. So if you feel unsafe, exit the relationship no matter what, and reflect on it later when you are safe already.
I'm going through something like this now. I've been with this person 24 yrs. I see her repeat the same cycle of behaviors over and over again. I genuinely believe it tears her apart from the inside. Unfortunately, it tears me apart, too. I know they can put on an act. I'm all too familiar. I've found her alone crying, and she'll open up about it. I don't know if she's crying because she wants to change or if it's because of the fact her reality fell apart. It's a really hard thing to be a part of.
My mom went to therapy after my parents got divorced, and sought out a male therapist and then did not take any accountability for her role in the divorce, so he comforted her and fed her need for male validation. She still, to this day, thinks of herself as the savior to me and my sister. I’m glad my sister opened her eyes too.
I recently realized a long term friend has been manipulative for years now but I didn't clock it because we hadn't been together in person since I started therapy and learning to spot narcissistic traits and manipulation. I had always had issues with her being selfish etc but didn't put the whole picture together until we reunited and I watched how she positions herself and treats me differently when other people are around. Anyway having now shifted my understanding of her as a person I am realizing that she absolutely has her therapist in the palm of her hand and uses her therapist against her husband to deepen her control over him. It was the weirdest and most harrowing feeling to suddenly realize that the narrative I'd been fed for YEARS and supported her through was a full on fabrication to milk me for sympathy and validation. I'm currently still working out how to deal with this and safely extricate myself so I just wanted to say I appreciate this video.
So sad. My case, revolving door counselors for her. BUT, after 4 marriage counsels seperate from those, each discovered her. She fired first three and fourth threw her out when she attacked her for calling her out. One even wanted to commit her when they realized. Last counselor told me to stay if soley to protect my daughter. The alternative was unthinkable. Teaching daughter boundries and have set mine. Watching mask come off as she ages. No cure, no acceptance and anger grows as she has no friends or family who can stand her. Again, so sad. My parole will be here soon. All you can do is work on yourself and protect and teach your kids. Thank you for the video.
Lise, you nailed it again! Concise, informative, and useful! I appreciate your information as I transition our of one of the worst years of my life. Thank you
This is so hard to accept. I struggle with this (probably because I'm raw, I just left my narcissistic partner last week). I struggle to comprehend that if we can't sort things out with these people in counselling, we can't confront them about being narcissistic, the narcissist is incapable of growth with their partner and all we can do is leave the situation; when we ourselves are not qualified to diagnose a narcissist in the first place. What gives us the right to perform a litmus test on the situation, when we are not a qualified professional? I know I do feel like garbage around this person 80-90% of the time, she crossed boundaries more than she respected them, yet I feel that by not addressing the issue for real it feels very avoidant (by leaving). How is our gut & emotional state the true litmus test of whether or not our partner is the narcissist, if we ourselves are not subject matter experts? Is a gut feeling and emotional state correct enough to go on? I suppose I still have this seed of doubt in my mind because of the trauma bonding, but what if I'm wrong? What is the true test to know if what we are feeling is correct? I've watched so many videos on this subject now and I can't shake the 'what if' portion of my emotions. It's an endless void. I don't know what to do.
I dealt with exactly this, and I'm sorry to hear you're going through this too. It's very difficult. Trust your own judgement, like you used to before this relationship. You feel bad 80-90% of the time, what else do you possibly need than that to make up your mind? That is why the trauma bond is so strong, the 10% that you're feeling great is what keeps you stuck. I went no contact a month ago, so I know how hard it is. If you leave the door open, these people will make you wonder why you ever tried to leave. Like, what was I thinking, she's GREAT!? 🤷♂️ Until you're back in a relationship with them, that's when the games and the drama and the gaslighting and the 'help me I'm a victim in every imaginable area of my life' starts again. You already have all of this data. You already know what to do. You're watching videos from real professional confirming everything you're experiencing. What more do you need? My advice would be, walk away. No, RUN away. And then see how you get stronger and more capable and gain more perspective every day. It really is uncanny, I didn't believe it either, but once you get some distance and you're not so emotionally involved anymore, you'll actually get angry when you start seeing all of the ways that this person abused you - how they manipulated you, how they made you doubt your own judgement (like you're doing now), how they exploited you, kept you on your toes, kept you working harder than you've ever worked in any relationship of any kind, how they isolated you, made you question your own self worth, your own sanity, etc. Trust me, you're better than this. You've been here before, many times probably? Get out for good now. Go and spend your time and money and love on people who genuinely care about you, who don't make you feel like garbage "80 - 90%" of the time, there's your answer right there.
P.s.-Do NOT try to convince them they're a narcissist. They will turn that situation around and become so sweet and caring and seemingly in touch with you and with themselves that you will think you really were the problem all along. If the overarching feeling is one of confusion and self doubt, if you're constantly second guessing yourself or defending yourself, you're dating a narcissist. As someone who is deeply empathetic, who believes that every situation - no matter how bad - can be resolved, I didn't want to believe it either, but going no contact really is the only way to fully extract yourself from these relationships. You'll be in this same loop for many more years.
You can tell because if you follow good relationship communication advice, if you avoid their usual triggers, and they're STILL managing to pick fights and avoid accountability for their actions, then the answer is it's all on them. They don't have to be a narcissist per se. You just need to know they have many abusive behaviours that they refuse to change and you're well within your rights to leave and go no contact.
You're doing it to yourself. You still want security, safety, certainty, belonging and comfort. Immature people will keep trying to get this and stubbornly try to get it from old sicko narcy. Mature people will grow the hell up, accept they are not going to get what the want, grit their teeth and move on. Time to grow the hell up.
Oh yeah... Suddenly it became "you and this therapist are ganging up on me..." Lise, you are recounting the last decade of my life and I simply cannot express to you how grateful I am to you, for this. I'm passed most of the healing stages already but to see it so succinctly packaged like this, makes me feel so much less alone and so hopeful that others might be saved in time.
Thank you for this video. I just had this insight that the therapist is the perfect person to triangulate. If you are questioning the advice a therapist gives, you can’t actually verify it with the therapist because of confidentiality agreements. So narcissists could make up anything to try and get their way and use the therapist as the foil.
The problem is, even after going no contact for years, my mind was hijacked. I had no sense of self. Because my thoughts and words were not mine. I took on all the personality traits of the abusers.
@SidneyWells I cut my parents and siblings out of my life four years ago. The problem is they are in love with their problems, and they don't want to get better. I worked on myself, exercising and lifting. I practiced self-discipline. I feel good these days. I was a size 42 waist four years ago, now size 32. Healthy body healthy mind. I never thought I would feel this good at sixty.
@@soundscapes4619 Good to hear that! Could you shed some light on your original comment as well? How do you mean your words was not yours? Also, so it looks like now you overcame on it?
my covert narc ex started going to therapy and then magically I became "emotionally unsafe" for her when picking up and dropping off our child. She has now used what she's learned in therapy to weaponize her victimization even more towards especially within her family and friends. The only change that has happened is she has gotten worse.
my ex talked me in to seeing her therapist with her in the very beginning of our relationship (she had an abusive past with a narcissistic mother). The meaning of that, in my opinion, was to get me to see things her way and go along with it. At some point her therapist agreed with me on an issue and my ex got SO mad and never went back to her again. She claimed "I turned her own therapist against her". A year later we went to another therapist for couples counseling and the same thing happened again, only she claimed "She'll always agree with you because you're the one paying the bill". She went to two more therapists (alone) after that but she left them both too. Its sad to think she'll never get the help she needs. I pray she does, but deep down I know that will never happen.
It's an all round sad situation. There are victims of emotional abuse on both sides of the fence and the suffering endured by all involved deserves some measure of sympathy. Let's hold onto the hope of healing for everyone.
At my insistence, my ex went to therapy. Well, neither of us knew what we were dealing with. I was operating under the traditional therapy narrative that he had an abusive childhood and he just needed therapy to help heal the inner child. Well, of course, he turned the therapist into a source of supply and it took her a couple of years to twig. Before she figured him out, it had flipped a switch and he became less communal/covert/white knight and far more grandiose and aggressive. At the same time, I became less willing to collude in the narrative that he was a victim and began insisting on the truth and making hard boundaries [I had had it]. This was a dangerous cocktail. Literally. Dangerous. I'm 5'4" and he's 6'3". Therapists who know nothing about narcisissm [and most in my city don't, or at least, didn't throughout my 30 year roller coaster marriage] are putting people at real risk.
I appreciate the deep understanding and compassion you have for those with NPD. But honestly, after listening to you and other experts on this issue, I would say it is very rarely advisable to stay in a relationship with an NPD. As a Christian, I don't want to believe anyone is broken beyond repair - but only God can heal people this broken.
I hope to believe that my ex was not a narcissist because it’s something I wouldn’t want anyone to have to endure. Although there were so many characteristics I can now identify that’s could be considered narcissistic, it not in me to make that call. I separated myself from her and it’s been a while and I haven’t heard anything about or from her. I pray she’s well. I hope she’s safe and the grace of God keeps her in good spirits. Stay healthy and safe inside your body 😉
I ve been trying to figure out what I’m doing and my disaster of a life. For years I feel clinicians skirt around pinning down any diagnosis and focus on the process. I cannot diagnose myself, so I’m not saying that I have this, but it’s strongly resonates, and if it is the actual obvious answer that I was oblivious to well, I wish somebody just clued me in a few decades ago And could’ve spared everybody disasters
Awesome video. A lot has changed from this is just software to recognizing that its biological as well. Explains why it continues generation after generation with some variation.
Wow, I am pretty sure this is what my ex has done with her therapist, as she's been going to them for years yet no change in her behaviour and they said exactly the same thing that I'm good and supportive for her.
I became a narcissist when I lost my short and long term memory and I had a game plan with my therapists and then moved away this is all pre COVID and then began to not follow the plan and make the plan a priority and then it consumed me. Right now I'm trying to figure myself out and get back in that plan but I can't remember it. And I'm not mad at myself I just know that I'm at fault and I should be better than this in order to help my wife's problems and my own
Before i even knew about Narcist. My partner suggested we went to counseling after coming back from her having an affair. She opened with i have never got over loss of my wife 20 years earlier .and never even mentioned the affair. The councilor just focused on this being the issue. And my partner just steered the conversation towards this in every session.
I think it's possible that either I or my wife may be covert narcissist types. I really do love her, and want to stay together and have it work. We're finally starting therapy now, I can't wait to see how it goes. I'm actually excited.
3:12 and 4:37 can be related 😉 It sure is with my brother who doesn’t realize he’s the narcissist. My brother was brutal enough for me to need years of therapy starting in my 20s. Ultimately I’m thankful for the therapy. Anyway, I was shocked when after one of his violent breakups he decided that like me he’d get therapy (I was 5 years in at the time). Within 2-3 months he said his therapist “graduated” him as the fastest patient he’d ever had, that all his problems were behind him, and he should go straight back into the same relationship situation “just to be sure” things didn’t repeat. His next gf was a “non-single mother” who left her husband for him and she was actually just as abusive to my brother as he’d been to me growing up. Everything’s worse than ever before for him but he only sees himself as the “fastest psychotherapy patient to graduate ever” so obviously he’s permanently immune to any relationship issues. Either he played the therapist like a fiddle or the therapist figured him out and flattered him to make him leave. I sure hope it wasn’t the former because that would be one terrible therapist running around.
My mom has bpd or some sort of cluster-b. I'm 37m and I was always subconsciously attracted to covert narcs. I ended up with anxious attachment fear of abandonment and self-worth issues with the people pleasing tendencs. That means if one of your parents is npd it's not necessary for you to become one. But you are definitely attracted to what is familiar. In the begining of dating stages chose the girl that doesn't spark your anxiety which you might confuse for chemistry.
WOW!! Every word you speak is so intelligent. This one is one of the best I heard from you. And, that is saying a lot. This video is so educational. Thank You!!!!
I am wanting to learn about the overlap between a Quiet BPD and a Vulnerable Narcissist, which is appartently where my ex partner lies. Ugh the levels of reality distortion really messed with my head 😵💫😮💨
This happened to me. Didnt know I was dealing with BPD until the bomb went off. Couples counseling started after potential infidelity. We were referred to the counselor by her therapist. 2 years in we had healed tremendously. I insisted we keep going as she would breathe sanity into the marriage. Well we got to around 5 years of seeing this woman and my wife nagged me until I exploded during a session. They later had a one on one and talked about how abusive I am. Im not perfect. I definitely have issues of my own, but the discard was fueld from this encounter and was outrageously disproportionate. Marriage over. Officially divorced last month. 15 year relationship over with our entire history rewritten and guess who is the eternal victim? Life sure has been peaceful since, but that trauma bond is rough.
Yeah, when they've brought increasingly more drama and taken up so much real estate in our head, then the void rages at us when they are gone. That's a visceral description of the trauma bond. We're left trying to figure it all out.
There's no counseling these people You need to use your energy and heal your self You didn't cause what is wrong with these people ,can't control them Can't help them RUNAWAY as fast as you can
@@paultownsend8443 I wouldn't say there's no counseling these people. Studies show that 53% w/ NPD can go into a type of remission. It's still almost a 50/50 crapshoot. They have to really want it, work really hard, and get a very qualified counselor w/ enough skill and balance themselves to not be manipulated, like some of the stories Lise was telling. What the hell was wrong w/ that therapist that narcissist could convince them she should be able to have contact w/ her ex that she cheated w/? The therapist was as crazy as the narcissist, holy smokes.
You can feel good within yourself that this is well known and explained here. You are not alone and am free to try stuff (freedom). Dont drink to much. 🙂
I went to therapy with my Narcopath Ex after I left her for the second time and she tried to "kill herself" for the second time...she went to 4 or so sessions before I was asked to attend...I arrived, sat down and then proceeded to be attacked by her and her therapist...she somehow managed to turn the whole thing around on me, even though the reason I was leaving was that she cheated and was caught red handed...stupid stupid, confused me stuck around and eventually ended up getting attacked with a steak knife and stabbed...I packed my shi*, quit my job, booked a plane ticket and fled from South Africa to the UK...that was 7 years ago now and I have ZERO interest in women any more...I live a nice, quiet and drama free life! Listening to this video it`s kind of soothing to know that it wasn`t just me that got walked willingly into that mine field...
I've been manipulated, gaslighted, and threatened on a daily basis. Some of the threats were he was going to kill himself if I didn't do what was asked, he would punch pillows or sofa, stand up against me and yell at my face, stand behind the car and not let me leave, sometimes we would be driving and he would threaten to swerve and hit any truck, hold my arms and shake me, push me aside to a wall, and much more. My in-laws were also very verbally abusive towards me. I wasn’t allowed to visit my family or friends. If I did or wanted to, I had to be ready for an argument. Every day I was reminded that I am nothing and that I was not worth fighting for and that I don't meet the standards of being married to their son. Recently, I found out he was cheating on me and had a girlfriend. After seeing the texts and pictures, I became numb. I've been a good wife, I listened to every insult and fight. I never gave up what I knew, thanks to this hacker who's helped me to extract enough information from his device. Someone on here shared a link to the hacker who helped cloned his phone without physically touching it. All I did was send his phone number to him and through a remote link sent to my email, I was able to access all of his texts, emails, Facebook and Instagram chats, real-time call listening and his long deleted messages as if the phone was physically with me. Perhaps, you are in a similar situation and you need help you can get in touch with him Email: instagram.com/markclinton2424/
narcissists have only one goal when they go to therapy: to gain information so that they can adjust their behavior, to manipulate even more sophisticatedly, and therefore continue their game
Are you guys narcissists? Do you know anything about narcissism because I am a diagnosed narcissist who is looking for true healing and your judgmental and condemning crap isn’t encouraging anyone to try and strive to be a better person.
@@MrBurkistan If you are indeed a diagnosed narcissist and are going to therapy, looking to heal and make yourself a better person; then, good on you. I am glad that you are on that path. Don't let others put you down as you are doing things to improve your life and be good in the world. If you are indeed a narcissist, by going to therapy to improve, to heal past wounds, you are in the minority and that is something to be truly proud of that you are on a path to enlightenment. I only say that you are in the minority as statistics show that true narcissists, not ones that are misdiagnosed, do not seek therapy and such to improve themselves. They use it as a game to get the upper hand; that is what statistics seem to indicate. If you were properly diagnosed, in your case, it is different and you are trying to heal from old wounds, to be a better person. I applaud you for that.
@@MrBurkistan I’m sorry, but you don’t heal narcissism it’s a personality style that doesn’t go away. You just learn how to manage it, but these commenters have been abused by your people, so forgive us for venting our frustrations.. disordered thinking people do not change how they think they just manage how they react but they never really change.
I am a narcissist can confirm everything told is this video is true. Even now that i know my defenses thr first thing is always blaming others and feeling immense anger, like bloodthirsty anger. My mind is a curse. This organ is too powerful and its diseases are insane compared to other parts of the body
I sincerely thank you for sharing. I hope my thanks helps you if even only a little. You see you are helping others like me to understand and it’s very hard to come by since the go to advice (including in this video) is to run away. Or at best to keep relationship shallow. But I love my son and at least seek to understand where he is coming from and your comment is incredibly helpful. Many 🙏 thanks.
@@eddybella9073 three months since this comment and improving everyday. I agree with the runaway though. Don't try to understand him, just support him but he needs to go therapy and figure out himself you can't enter his mind. Hell its hard af to even enter my own mind, so hard I've need more than a year of therapy to get to the soon to become good spot I am almost in. Just support him, don't try to understand, let the therapist and him do the work. Only they two can change him. Seek therapy yourself if you need him.
Aš I understood, things are looking better for you? All I found today, not yet diagnosed but a lot of things clicks for me, is that basically this NPD type is doomed for life. Please tell me I'm wrong and it actually somehow gives hope
I don’t understand why they make medication for the ones who get traumatized by the narcissist, but they don’t make any medication to try to rewire the narcissist.
My mother and stepfather had my brother, sister, and me go to therapy with them when we were kids.. The therapist said that us kids did not have to be there.. Then later in life I went to therapy with my mom.. The therapist said that they wanted to be my mom's therapist so I would have to find one of my own.. My experience is that my mom wanted to go to therapy so that she could get her way.. This is a very dangerous person.. Even with watching all the different people talking about Narcissism I still can't understand why she does the stuff she does.. She is also and alcoholic and there is so much similarity of behavior.. I have read in the AA and Alanon Literature that alcoholism is a cunning and baffling disease and I find that is true between alcoholics and narcissists..
My ex wife is a covert narcissist victim who arnt trying to fix anything. She went for over a year and every month she got more distant and worse. Gilt and shame that they fell is self inflicted wounds.
During the discard, when he didn't bother with masking, I asked him why he used the same technique to love bomb his new supply i.e love emails and texts (I caught him cheating) as he did with me all those years ago. He smirked and said "because it works". He also said he wished he could experience unconditional love like I had with my children as he didn't feel the same about his own children. I told him he had a problem with love. He agreed. It was his most honest moment in our entire decade long abusive nightmare relationship.
On the one hand, I want to be empathic, I want to help. But on the other hand, I can't stand all of this abuse, anger, accusing me of all bad things, blaming me....I don't want to be a bad person. Who am I? How can I help myself and not to hurt my narcissistic husband? Is it possible that I am narcissistic too and I don't know it? God help me...
I’m a covert narcissist and I don’t say it proudly. I need help I don’t want to live like this . I want a normal life and long lasting relationships. I’m the f… problem. I’m scared , please help me
Start with the likely source of the narcissism - CPTSD. Spend a few years (or 10!) working on treating your complex trauma and the narcissistic symptoms should weaken
My partner recovered fully from bpd and related disorders. The therapy she had didn't involve any couples work, and had failed in the past until i came up with home treatment for her neurological impairment. I promoted her subconsciously to use her therapist and never mentioned the subject. She never mentioned to me that she had been to therapy but it became obvious as her behaviour improved rapidly, and i saw the letterhead. It didn't take long before she had abandoned all ideas of toxicity and become a thoroughly likeable and caring person. It was like magic!
@@mubarakbrar9937 it was surprisingly simple. She already had a CBT therapist but the treatment had stalled. I had already begun a self improvement regime and I leveraged my partners hyper-criticism to make a list which I then took to an informal meeting with the therapist. We made a vision board. I hid the vision board where it could be found, and it had the letterhead from her clinic. Because the therapist was female, on discovering my interaction my partner became insanely jealous and resolved to intervene, and to take over the interaction by excluding me. However, she was also jealous of my progress because several items on the board had been crossed out. I made her feel that she would be the only kid at the disco without a clean bill of mental health. She also felt validation because the contents of the vision board were derived from her missives to me. The therapist offered her a free session. It only took three sessions in all to complete the treatment. I must add that the reason that the treatment had failed initially was due to neurological impairment, which we had managed to reduce to a manageable degree by an extended home treatment schedule that I had devised for her.
@@AboutThatLIFE207 probably not, since she lived happily until her untimely death last year! Nice try but something went missing down the line bro - ask a grown up to help you next time.
@@AboutThatLIFE207 she became a completely different person after going through 'reconnection' and we reached a level of intimacy far beyond anything I've experienced. Why would she turn back to shunning physical contact? It's exactly the same as horse-whispering, which I've done. I used to get horses that were terrified of people and make them into workers in a very short time. These animals would come running over when they saw the bridle, whereas the home reared ones would kick up a fuss, occasionally. When they get rebroken, they go through an emotional catharsis, and smother the handler with affection. It was my partners first time ever experiencing these emotions, and they were unique to me - no-one had ever seen this side of her before, and never will. This only happened at the end of the treatment, when her attachment style shifted from insecure to secure. She then became able to think and act like an average person, free from all mental illnesses. By the time she passed away, all her wrinkles had vanished, except for laugh lines around her jaw and eyes.
It’s a strategy such as yours which you put together to get through to her in a method that resonated with her that is superior to the common advice of “just run the other way”. I would so love to speak with you I’m so trying to understand my adult son AND ME
My beautiful wife doesn’t do counseling if criticism turns on her. She tends to only go to find out what’s wrong with me. She does see herself as a victim.
Interesting subject. My ex-wife had severe depressions a few years into the marriage. She has been unhappy all the time anyway, but the main trigger was, that we had a kind of contract, that I would bring home the bacon, while she would be concentrating on university in order to finish her education and to take care of our two kids. I delivered on our contract big time (house, two cars, extensive trips, etc...), she didn't. After 8 years she still didn't have her degree and an end to this was not in sight. Depressions was how she dealt with the situation. Causing her basically being unable to do anything and me practically having 3 kids to take care of and running the whole family like a single father, while working full time in a management position in IT. I was able to convince her to go to therapy in order to get her depressions under control and she eventually gave in. The therapist never talked to me, only knew her side of the story. It didn't take long that she convinced the therapist of her never-ending self-pity as a victim of her environment and the therapist made me out as the root of every problem and she had a "pro" now to back up her narrative. It had been complicated before already, but from that moment on everything went downhill even more quickly. Her narcissistic behavior went through the roof. I was the one always being grumpy, she couldn't talk to me, I was handling the kids wrong, I was not caring for her desires and problems, I am the one who should get therapy, etc... the whole program. I gave in to do couples therapy after she threatened me with divorce. Right from the start she was playing her victim role again and in the beginning successfully, so the therapist focused on me as the "dominant and controlling husband" who would have to change to give his wife more freedom. She wanted to utilize the therapist to get me under control and to gaslight me even more. I was defending myself wholeheartedly, because this perception of me was not correct in my opinion, since I was the one who put myself completely into the service of my wife and the family since years. But then something interesting happened. My wife had problems to keep up that narrative and she started to contradict herself more and more. After a few sessions the therapist sided more and more with me, resulting in the therapist calling my wife out: "Don't you think that you are a big part of the problem? The way how you are treating your husband doesn't leave him any chance to make things right for you without giving himself up completely as a person, leaving no room for his own dreams and desires!" My ex-wife became furious. She started crying and accused the therapist to not understand her problems. Telling her that she was the one having depressions and not me, etc... No surprise... that was the last session we had together! Things at home didn't improve either. A few years later... our oldest daughter having psychological problems and being in therapy, life at home was not pleasant. We had a few family sessions with our daughter's therapist and my ex-wife was playing again the victim card for herself, but also for our daughters. That I was the ugly dominant husband/father and that all problems in the family were my fault. The therapist was very experienced. In the beginning she was falling a bit for my ex-wife, but after the 3rd session I got a call from her. She told me that her suspicion was, that my ex-wife was a covert narcissist, because she watched the way she interacted with me (gas lighting, passive aggressive, etc...) and that I appeared to be under complete control of her and I had not a chance against her (deja-vu from couples therapy), She called my ex-wife an "iron fist in a velvet glove". And she suggested that a separation is not always a bad solution. That was the first time I really started to consider this,. It was an eye-opener. I need to mention that my ex-wife ceased all contact to our daughter's therapist shortly after that, calling her an "evil witch". My ex-wife noticed my change in behavior and that she had partially lost control over me. She kept me even further on distance emotionally and physically. We had constant discussions about the huge problems she had with me and that I had to change, but she couldn't not talk about some of the things, because it was too hurtful for her. She kept things as always mostly vage. And whenever I was pointing out something she did wrong, she was constructing immediately a causal chain, that in the end the root for her behavior was always something I did and that she just reacted to me. By definition, I was the cause for everything that was wrong in her life. When I asked her why she was still with me, if I was such a bad guy, she always replied that she loved me and gave me the Darth Vader talk:" Yes, you are on the dark side, but I love you, because I know the there is still good in you." She eventually started to have an affair behind my back. Skipping a few other hurtful things... when I found out, I made finally my decision and demanded a divorce. Did she fight for me? Nope... The first things she did was going on dating platforms and having dozens of one-night-stand with random men... catching an STD along the way., And all this while we were still married and living under the same roof with our youngest daughter and in a fashion that I would subtly know what was going on. One Sunday morning I was sitting with my daughter at the breakfast table, She came into the kitchen, looking like sh*t after a long night with drugs and sex, sporting several highly visible hickeys on her neck. My first reaction was (sounding completely indifferent): "Looks as if you had a rough night...!?" She didn't find it funny though how I asked. Our daughter asked what that was on her neck and she explained that she was kissing with some men and that's what is happening sometimes. Another F in parenting for her. This long story only contains a fraction what I had to endure over all the years in this relationship. But what really broke my heart was, that she alienated my oldest daughter towards me over many years. I was always wondering why she kept more and more distance to me, before she moved out, since we are pretty much alike and always got along great before she was a teenager. My ex-wife had made her her ally and my daughter was completely convinced that I was a bad guy and causing harm for her and her mother. My daughter lives alone now and is in therapy herself (diagnosed borderline, caused by a toxic mother-child binding) and now she starts to realize what her mother did to her all the years and that I am the complete opposite of how my ex-wife portrayed me all the years. That I was the one keeping the family running all the years with unconditional dedication and love. We are starting to have great relationship again (still a long way to go though), while she minimizes the contact to her mother to the absolute necessary since a few months. To all people having a covert narcissist as a partner: RUN!!! AND DON'T LOOK BACK!!! Because it will never get better, only worse... I have wasted more than 20 years of my life on this person who didn't deserve it. Giving up my dreams and myself a long the way. Ruining my health and sanity. If you are in the same position, get professional help. You got abused and your mental wounds need to be taken care of, properly: It will take me years to heal and to become myself again, but at least I have a positive perspective in life again for the last third of my life time...
I'm so sorry you had to endure all of this. Just listening to it sounds sickening. Covert narcissism in women is notoriously hard to recognise on first glance, but the more one observes and digs a little deeper, the truth always, always comes to light. ❤ I'm glad you are rebuilding your relationship with your daughter. I'm sure she appreciates it more than you realise. I wish you and your children all the happiness and peace you deserve. It is never too late to enjoy life. 😊❤ The past remains in the past where it belongs.
If you do see them as great and amazing, more than likely there will be a problem. They may not like it when you point out their faults so that they can change.
I tried taking my x to Marriage Counselling but the therapist took his side. When I look back I should have ended the relationship then, but I thought it would be better for my son to have 2 parents. Gor most of the time I eas content, despite ring run ragged by his and my sons demands. Then i fell seriously ill. I was neglected and then abused as my business fell apart and the income dwindled I was accused of stealing and hoarding money from him. It wasnt untill then that I started becoming educated on Covert Narcissistic Abuse. Just as I was about the leave he walked out claiming I was abusing him.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the narcissist because I'm call selfish, cause I gave it all since dating up until now marriage of 3 years, but was always struggling to fit between her and her friends. Now i gave up, so I just became a workaholick cause I at least fell more appreciated there, and at least some people would ask me how my day is going, fast forward now got a toddler and in process of divorce, going to try counseling but what she wants from me I will never be good enough. It's a mountain I will forever climb with no end, and I'm tired and defeated, at 29 years, she's 34.
I’ve had therapy for years. Been in many support groups therapy groups. It doesn’t matter what you are in therapy for it is not going to be easy. And nobody ever gets completely free of whatever issue brings them to therapy. In fact most people make 25 to 50% progress at best with issues like codependency. So I don’t see anything really harder for a narcissist if they really want freedom and healing than anyone else. Most people with codependency when they realize they are going to be going against their family or spouse they settle for crumbs of healing. Narcissism isn’t any difference. Yes it’s a personality disorder but again anything you bring to a therapist that began in the formative years is going to be like pulling teeth.
Thank you so much for the content and awareness you bring! I have an idea for a video. Maybe you can show some actual examples of the behaviour of the narcissistic partner? Especially female. As far as I have noticed, many men are likely not able to notice something like that or treat it as partner’s bad mood or smth. Female narcissism is often described in abstract (in my opinion) terms like „emotional discard“ but I hardly see any actual examples of that. So maybe it would be easier to recognise a toxic behaviour if you recognise actual example of it from your practice or day-to-day life ❤
I had to get out, but she has been going to solo therapy and it’s.. interesting. I can’t find much info about this side of things online but am extremely curious. She says she’s had this “death of ego” and ostensibly been working to change a bunch of stuff, but to me it’s the surface level stuff and she’s either using forceful tactics to try and get me back because of “how much she has changed”. Fine, not the way to do it but great she’s making some progress, however, she calls me fairly often in a really negative place and many of the old underhanded communication tactics come straight back out in the face of me trying to explain my position even a little bit. So I’m just not sure what to make of it.
Please deal with grandparent alienation. I overcompensated for my abusive childhood by indulging my now adult daughter. I believe that she has traits of covert narcissism like her father. Her therapist has encouraged her to cut me off from her family, which includes my precious three-year-old grand daughter. This type of alienation is becoming widespread with one out of four grandparents now being estranged from their grandchildren in the US. There's so much misery and social stigma associated with parental estrangement from adult children that it's not being talked about. I've been traumatized by this and have been in therapy myself, but this cutting off of family members without contact, warning, or discussion seems to be widely accepted now. It's unbelievably sad and detrimental to both the grandchildren and grandparents.
Look into getting grandparental custody with an attorney. My friend and their attorney won court ordered weekend custody here in Texas. You still have to deal with the headgames the Narc plays but get to see the grandchild. Best Wishes
I understand this. My son slowly started alienating us. We are asked him. Tried to find out why. His wife had been sociable towards then slowly started to stop coming with them when invited. He no longer has his life time friends. We are totally alienated. No communication. No not alone to see our only grandchild. We met him for 4 x days only... our time slot. Her mum is allowed to live with them, holiday with them etc. We are broken . Nobody talks about this
Immeasurably painful to be falsely deemed abusive towards grandchildren you adore. Adult N daughter denies both my granddaughter and I any contact with each other. The crudest vindictiveness I have ever experienced.
In order to initiate & follow through any kind of treatment for NPD they must first consider that THEY are the source of stress in their life. One of the most common traits of narcissism is not taking responsibility for their own decisions. It's always someone else's fault.
2 sessions after therapy with my covert narc (now) ex and he cruelly discarded me and told me to move out with our 4 month old son, out of nowhere, the week of the third session.
Thank you for this very thoughtful reply to this important question implies that the individuals involved a Have suffered enough to accept a painful change in their deeply ingrained outlooks in life. A person who has accepted a relationship with an NPD for any length of time needs to question his own vulnerabilities. As for addiction disorders, I believe that it is the relationship that requires a long term mediation and accompagnement and not merely the individuals involved.
My ex covert narcissist gf went to therapy for 6 years, nothing was resolved. I asked her, do you think the therapist is helping you? She said yes, but I think it was a waste of time and payed for validation, or both of them were crazy, no idea, but thank god she is out of my life
They go to get, exactly like in the example, confirmation that they’re not the problem and tomcomfi their point of view. Often times it comes to the problem, if the covert narcissist came out by validating himself to much in childhood. Like the golden child. So they seek revenge with anyone who calls them out and takes off their mask.
I'm doing couples therapy, and it feels to me that the therapist is taking my wife's side on a lot of things. I'm not sure on if this comes from what she told the therapist about her childhood and the trauma she dealt with growing up. I starting to feel that her childhood shaped her into what might be narcissism.
Heard similar things about therapy for psychopaths : seems to make them worse - they learn to say what ppl want to hear
Yup, its how all those cluster B types act, and you don't want to be friends with ANY of them- a lot of people keep throwing this narc word around when in reality their situation is much worse and scarier because a psychopathic cannibal will act just like a narc because they have Narcissism too, and all the issues that go along with it PLUS some MORE xtra baggage.. like YOU winding up in the baggage in pieces. Please be careful out there people, in this world of Uber drivers and internet dating, bad stuff can happen. It is how it happened to me.
They learn to feign empathy
No you have to know what type of therapist you are visiting and we shouldn't need therapy in this world if everyone was forced or chose to take the same oath. No one has an oath to anyone or anything
Makes them more dangerous.
My ex accepted her toxic behaviour and asked I give her a chance to change. It took her 1 therapy session to convince the therapist she was the victim and come back to me saying "see, they think you're the problem too!" Was actually good for me to realise that even a professional cannot help her.
The Perry Como theme song regarding change in narcissistic behaviour - "It's Impossible". It's impossible, tell the sun to leave the sky it's just impossible. It's impossible, tell a narc to stop their lies it's just impossible. Can a narc change? It's just impossible.
Relatable. And shocking at the same time. How comes even therapists are so easily manipulated by narcs?
So you diagnosed your partner, your partner listens, speaks to a qualified mental health professional,and reports the qualified medical opinion is that you might be the problem. Have you ever considered giving your partner the same consideration that you might be wrong and get a qualified medical opinion on yourself?
Also, did your partner find a therapist who treats NPD, or did your partner go to a" life coach" who treats people claiming to be victims of narcissistic abuse?
@normanreichwald6158 great questions. So firstly I did nothing to diagnose my partner. I raised concerns about a pattern of behaviour that I felt was toxic. It seemed to fit with npd but as you rightly assume I am not a qualified professional. One of the forms of this toxic behaviour was to describe a situation but deliberately leave out any details or context that would paint her in a bad light. Thus when family or friends would challenge me regarding these situations they would suddenly find out that the situation was completely different. When asked about this she would explain it with "but if I'd told them that they would have hated me" or some such variation.
Secondly I have received support from a professional who specialises in victims of npd.
Lastly no the therapist she went to was not trained in npd and sadly just reinforced her victim mentality.
@nietwojinteres7278 because most therapists are scarily not trained to deal with npd, and someone with npd has spent a lifetime working out how to manipulate people. Search up Dr Ramani when you get a chance.
They will make your life a nightmare. You can speak to them in the nicest possible way and they will still snap on you and twist everything you say. Manipulate it so you apologize. Not only did I go through that nightmare during the relationship I'm now dealing with the aftermath. Peace, love and light to everyone ❤.
Going through this now 😣💀
My narcissistic ex says that the reason she attacked me was validated by her therapist as “compassion fatigue” for always dealing with my emotions. 😕 just….bizarre.
Wow. I have not heard a therapist explain the relationship that a NPD has with therapy in such a clear manner. I also love the cut-ins with movie clips. I think it makes the production value go up.
Thanks for your feedback, I appreciate it!
Agreed.
I found this video after feeling confused and disappointed with how a psychologist was talking about [and arguably confronting] a narcissist mother that has been gaining some attention on YT. The professional was making some claims that didn’t feel appropriate to me (a mere Psych grad), so I wanted to see if anyone had further information on the therapy process for NPD. This video didn’t specifically address what I was looking for, but it does suggest that any confrontational method is ineffective and/or harmful.
My ex covert narc would not go to therapy of any sort. Couples therapy online was attempted but only for me to change. Funny now that I look back on it.
Wild...my ex wife only seems to go to therapy even 7 yrs after our divorce and her infidelity that never stopped, to talk about ME and how she is a perpetual victim. Its always so crazy for me to listen to these videos and realize just how clinical and predictable a narcissist is without ever admitting to, or realizing they are not well
I can relate to this mans story. My ex of 2 years was very toxic. I always thought it was narcacissm but i think she has BPD. She is the victim in every relationship shes been in, every guy was "abusive" and she took no accountability. She lied daily and even cheated in our relationship. She started going to therapy and she got drastically worse. The childhood trauma from her toxic parents has haunted her,her whole life and has caused bpd in her i believe. Shortly after she started therapy i became the villian in her story and we broke up. Although it was hard the first month or so, now 4 months later i feel much healthier and realized i dodged a huge bullet.
Same here ! Where are all these crazy ppl coming from :/
I took the time with my bpd partner who eventually made a full recovery, but the experience was life threatening - I agreed to that at the outset and knew about her history of violent behaviour, but there were rays of hope which came to fruition - it was more than worth the effort
@@disdroid good luck with that long term, they most often revert to the behaviors, all you have to do is make a single mistake and they will split.
@@rhettbaldwin8320 not if the attachment style shifts - when two people are secure in a relationship, there are no mistakes to make. The bpd partner becomes like a brand new person and evolves their own ways to express intimacy which goes far beyond anything I've ever experienced, but very similar to when I re-break a problem pony and they smother me with kisses. There is no going back either way, because the cause was neurosis which begins in childhood and when it has been resolved, there is nothing to tempt that individual back into their old thought patterns. Once you grow into an adult, nothing can turn you back into a child again - that was just the beginning part, things are different now and for always.
Hey, how is she doing after 6 months?
My experience: In hind-sight I believe she built her entire persona around getting people to feel sorry for her. Everything from her little-girl voice, to the never-ending and exhausting stream of problems. When I ditched her, she moved onto the next person. I experienced her at the time as drag to be around.
Brother, congrats on getting rid of that toxic relationship. I can say with a hand on my heart that my experience with my covert ex looked similar to yours. Everything from her looks, way of talking, and even in public. But FORTUNATELY we’re able to see right through and know there’s nothing anyone can do to help them. Pff I even tried atleast taking her to church for some type of awakening but forget it. Never happened and never will. . Feel proud that you’ll know at the end. And feel sorry for the next person.
@@Tololo86 The next dummy. Glad you escaped too.
In my experience they like to roleplay the type of manic pixie dream girls you’ll see in movies like Eternal Sunshine or Breakfast At Tiffany’s (my ex’s favourite movies for a reason) - they’ll start off timid and demure, then gently open themselves up to reveal this exciting depth and unpredictability completely unrivalled elsewhere. You’ll feel special because she’s only showing this side of her to you. Once you’re hooked she’ll emotionally dump all of her trauma on you to activate your protective/hero instincts. Then next thing you know you’re being taught what a “twin flame” is. It’s all a mask. I don’t think they actually know who they are. It’s as cold and callous as predators are out in the wild. Very unnerving once you’ve identified how dangerous the intentions are and survived it. Congratulations on setting yourself free, my friend
You definitely had a Narc or historioic. More so a historioic when the two year old shows her self. Your lucky brother. This type is worse of all. They make a Sociopath look empathic. This type tried to murder me.
@@kevinowens6010 histrionic, yes. Screaming tantrums, obsessive blame and an inability to ever let problems go. She was so sweet and nice when I met her and I was young and stupid, so I hung around longer than I should have hoping it would get better.
This video hits the nail on the head once again. I've found it quite surreal. With my vulnerable narcissistic ex girlfriend we started out as "friends through mutual hobby". As long as our relationship didn't have a romantic turn, I've found her quite pleasant to be around. She was a cute and kind girl who always happened to "just have bad luck in everything". But oh my gosh once we started dating, after the mandatory love bombing, she turned out to be absolutely reckless.
Her whole personality literally revolved around being a "victim".
Romantically: all of her exes were liars and cheaters.
Professionally: all of her bosses and co-workers were either hitting on her, harrasing her or being mean to her for no reason.
Family: her mom was a helicopter mom, her dad had dementia
Sports: people didn't like to compete her because she was above her league
Health: she's always had rare diseases which required tons of attention from doctors and people around her.
She also combined these things. Almost always when she competed in sports, she got "injured" before or during the competition so she was getting a lot more attention. Sometimes going so far that people were carrying her on their backs to the finish line.
Absolute madness. Everything else has been mentioned by Lise in her other videos.
My rating is 0/10 stars for dating a person with NPD. Wouldn't recommend.
wow the "helicopter mom" is the reason she was like that in the first place, buzzing about the both of you and your relationship like flies on shit I bet ? Thats what mine did. By the time she was done with me, I was applying for disability and questioning my sanity, especially after being thrown into a mental place for 2 weeks, where I was abused even further and almost killed. When I got back it was all my fault of course and now she pays my lawyer bill, which gives her control AND recognition as the "hero" for getting me out of prison time. I saw a major red flag on the first date, but believe it or not my last date was even worse so I thought I was getting a treat. Far from it. Don't date people from online !! they have had all the time to plot, plan, catfish, and destroy your life before you even meet them. there will be few red flags as she will have figured those out. In the end it wound up the same way as her last ex. (who she still insists its ok to be friends with after 14 years past)
This was my experience EXACTLY 😳 Honestly, we had an objectively great relationship when we were 'just friends', but when we eventually took things a step further, often the very same day, she would develop some rare medical condition, or some problem with her 'crazy' family, or some issue at work, or some problem with me. All of a sudden I had to work overtime to help her, to provide for her, to sympathise with her, to 'win her back', prove my love or worth to her, etc. Most exhausting relationship I ever had, also the most expensive. And here's the kicker, after everything I did for her, she eventually excused ME of being so abusive that she feared for her life - a total lie that she told numerous trusted contacts of mine. EXACTLY what she did with her previous boyfriend, a person who was apparently also so abusive that she feared for her life.!Until the bitter end, I was nice, tried to reason with her, tried to do things for her, tried to be friends. But no, I was brutally discarded and then also slandered behind my back. These people are not well.
This mirrors my current situation, we have only been stable as friends. My wife and I are basically ‘friends with privileges’. I realized long ago that she wasn’t capable of being authentically intimate with me and I accepted it and we have four beautiful children.. unfortunately, she rejected our counseling and won’t take any of the advice, including separation from her affair partner, which is her friends husband. She so expertly manipulated our entire friend group to make this all about me being a bad husband due mistakes of the past, being jealous, insecure, that they are all trying to counsel me. She’s the victim and so justified in her infidelity. Meanwhile, I keep paying the bills, getting the cold treatment, gaslighted, trying to be a good Dad, and not drink away the pain… still, I have hope as a devoted Catholic. Our family prays together still, but it’s a road that I’m still unsure where it will lead. I’m kinda just waiting for her next attempt at NPD supply outside of our relationship.
THANK YOU! I never would have seen myself as a covert narcissist before my daughter confronted me a year ago...twice... before I would take her seriously and look into it. I was appalled to see how much of that list of characteristics I admittedly exhibit! I went to therapy for a few months, but my therapist ended up saying I was NOT a narcissist. I'm even more confused now but feeling like therapy is a waste of time and money because almost EVERY article says we can't/won't change, and yes, the incredibly hard work at 70 sounds like more than I can do to make any significant change.
We can change if we want to
Very informative video! Most Narcissistic people carry around the victim card everywhere they go!
When i told the therapist what i had gone through with the covert narcissist I was married to for 24 years she told me he sounds like he just has a substance abuse problem! I told her some of the cruel things he's done and said to me and she took his side! Ill never go to therapy again unless they are specifically trained in narcissist abuse. Thank God I was strong she could have sent me over the edge!
I was in an abusive relationship and I know how hard it is to leave and how long it can take to recover, but I also know that part of that recovery process, eventually, also required me to look at why I was in that relationship and what part of me was getting something it needed (in an unhealthy way, of course) from being in that terrible relationship. I think that's a part that's often missing from discussions of toxic relationships with people who may be obviously abusive, mentally and/or physically, or who may suffer from a personality disorder or another difficult mental condition. It's natural to want to understand what you went through or have your trauma validated after feeling so alone in it and so lost for so long, but especially when it happens more than once, we need to ring ourselves to a point where we can interrogate what about us and our behaviors or needs or histories or traits contributes to us entering and/or remaining in relationships with people who are harming us..
I didn't mention I'm a woman. I now see this channel is mostly geared toward men, and I think it's a tremendously needed resource. I think my comment is applicable to both sexes.
Usually it is the people with high empathy and weak boundaries. Either you are one, and I am saying it (without shame, femininity involves vulnerability, flexibility, nativity which are wonderful traits in a healthy scenario ), or you are a stronger person, but wounded, which also leads to weakened boundaries.
Also, they are very good manipulators by the fact, they also believe, what they are saying, so they can be very persuasive. It is only the details you can figure out, and by the time they are starting to happen, you are emotionally involved, and now you are desperate trying to fix the relationship.
Anxious attachment style is also a huge risk factor to get trapped. But again, even if you were secure, you are prone to became anxious next to an avoidant or a narc.
Only exit is when you are able to draw the line, that this was it, no more, and you can stick to it no matter what.
Richard Grannon had a good insight to the healing process.
"There are times to be yang, but you need to be ying too."
You have to be humble, and accept it you are hurt. You need to heal. You need to reflect what led you to there, where you were, what responsibility you have, and what can be done to not be in another one.
This does not makes them irresponsible, or makes their deed any better. But looking at the narc, focusing them only will not lead give you all the answers, and until gun is not pressed to your head, you are a free willed person, and also have a responsibility, that you are where you are.
Of course self-reflecting on this is also a painful.
It totally depends on whether the narcissist is willing to change. I do have BPD and NPD. My NPD is submissive and covert. When I learned I had this I wanted to change. I don't meet the diagnostic criteria for NPD anymore and all of my BPD symptoms have weakened within the three years since then. I will keep going to therapy, the next will be a DBT therapy beginning in two months to hopefully help me deal even better with the strong emotions I have because of the BPD.
But I had a massive crisis and really wanted to change. And I found joy and satisfaction in growth. I know some other NPDs and most are not willing to walk the path I have chosen.
Are you more confident now ? And did you cry in the process, while telling your story and having a therapeutic relationship which allow to « integrate » the trauma ? I think I have these same conditions and I just want to be a normal, confident guy, and I know that by keeping narcissistic tendencies it will not work as it’s not authentic growth
@@commontouch1787 My confidence level is still rather low, but it is slowly rising I think. I don't think you should aim to be a normal and confident guy. Aim at growth and just be open to the process and honest in relationships. If you can reflect your narcissistic traits, you are already far ahead of most people on the journey as most people with NPD or NPD traits won't even admit their flaws.
Just keep going and working on yourself!
She once admitted to me that she felt I only went to therapy to learn 'new tactics' on how to manipulate people.....this projection was shocking to me because I know for sure that is not why I have gone to therapy for 10 years yet in that moment I realized that is exactly how she viewed and views therapy - a place where she can learn new tactics to manipulate.
I don't mean to be corny but you're truly an angel ❤ you've inspired me to repair my self worth and overhaul my entire life.
Gaslight the therapist and play the victim. They are not rational. Don't expect rational behavior! They will punish you exponentially.
On one hand therapists need to "believe" their patients but as an expert pf psychology they need to always recognize that people with personality disorders are often if not almost always full of shit. They need to read between the lines of what is being told and cross examine the patient otherwise they'll just validate their delusional thoughts and essentially harm the patient by enabling their behavior.
This is soo spot on, it’s unreal.
This video is very valuable info. I totally understand what you are suggesting will likely happen. As an HSP deep thinker I have analyzed the reasons for what I see as NPD.. severe childhood neglect. She had a rare drunken meltdown where I witnessed how much oain and shame she feels about her life. Maybe best not to wake those demons more fully in therapy 😢
Mine ended up sleeping with the therapist.
Hi. How’s she doing and what do you mean by waking up demons?
@@Stopcolonizinglebanon this tells things from both of them. wild...
We saw 2 different therapists. My narc made 100% effort to get the therapist on her side, crying, claiming i had done the things she had done, etc. She used the techniques the therapist suggested to try to “win” even more of the relationship. I “lost” the counseling sessions because i was trying to work on the relationship, not get the therapist on my side.
It is hard to detect covert narcissism, but a therapist should be able to detect it, or at least expect it in my opinion. However their tools are also limited, their job is to try to support you, and also if you are not honest, they cannot see inside you, only detect inconsistencies, and even if they detect, they cannot go like, "ok, you are sus, we are doing an npd test", but even they would do... test is based on honest answers...
Only close to certain way to detect it is to be in a relationship with them and monitor them over a yearish period of time at least, meanwhile hoping you are not losing yourself...
So.. in the end, it is kind of unresolvable issue. No resolution, no real answers. Only thing one can do is using their feelings, intuitions, and if you feel unsafe, and you tried to work on it without success, then leave, whatever is explanation is. You can only safe yourself, you can only reflect on yourself.
So if you feel unsafe, exit the relationship no matter what, and reflect on it later when you are safe already.
I am so glad I found this video. Thank you, I needed to hear this.
Thanks!
Thank you!
This has been the single most helpful video of all time for me. Thank you so much
I'm going through something like this now. I've been with this person 24 yrs. I see her repeat the same cycle of behaviors over and over again. I genuinely believe it tears her apart from the inside. Unfortunately, it tears me apart, too.
I know they can put on an act. I'm all too familiar. I've found her alone crying, and she'll open up about it. I don't know if she's crying because she wants to change or if it's because of the fact her reality fell apart. It's a really hard thing to be a part of.
My mom went to therapy after my parents got divorced, and sought out a male therapist and then did not take any accountability for her role in the divorce, so he comforted her and fed her need for male validation. She still, to this day, thinks of herself as the savior to me and my sister. I’m glad my sister opened her eyes too.
Never, NEVER tell them you think there’s a problem.
Quietly plot your escape.
I recently realized a long term friend has been manipulative for years now but I didn't clock it because we hadn't been together in person since I started therapy and learning to spot narcissistic traits and manipulation. I had always had issues with her being selfish etc but didn't put the whole picture together until we reunited and I watched how she positions herself and treats me differently when other people are around. Anyway having now shifted my understanding of her as a person I am realizing that she absolutely has her therapist in the palm of her hand and uses her therapist against her husband to deepen her control over him. It was the weirdest and most harrowing feeling to suddenly realize that the narrative I'd been fed for YEARS and supported her through was a full on fabrication to milk me for sympathy and validation. I'm currently still working out how to deal with this and safely extricate myself so I just wanted to say I appreciate this video.
So sad. My case, revolving door counselors for her. BUT, after 4 marriage counsels seperate from those, each discovered her. She fired first three and fourth threw her out when she attacked her for calling her out. One even wanted to commit her when they realized. Last counselor told me to stay if soley to protect my daughter. The alternative was unthinkable. Teaching daughter boundries and have set mine. Watching mask come off as she ages. No cure, no acceptance and anger grows as she has no friends or family who can stand her. Again, so sad. My parole will be here soon. All you can do is work on yourself and protect and teach your kids. Thank you for the video.
I wish you and your daughter the best of luck getting through this incredibly challenging situation
Lise, you nailed it again! Concise, informative, and useful! I appreciate your information as I transition our of one of the worst years of my life. Thank you
This is so hard to accept. I struggle with this (probably because I'm raw, I just left my narcissistic partner last week). I struggle to comprehend that if we can't sort things out with these people in counselling, we can't confront them about being narcissistic, the narcissist is incapable of growth with their partner and all we can do is leave the situation; when we ourselves are not qualified to diagnose a narcissist in the first place. What gives us the right to perform a litmus test on the situation, when we are not a qualified professional?
I know I do feel like garbage around this person 80-90% of the time, she crossed boundaries more than she respected them, yet I feel that by not addressing the issue for real it feels very avoidant (by leaving). How is our gut & emotional state the true litmus test of whether or not our partner is the narcissist, if we ourselves are not subject matter experts? Is a gut feeling and emotional state correct enough to go on?
I suppose I still have this seed of doubt in my mind because of the trauma bonding, but what if I'm wrong? What is the true test to know if what we are feeling is correct? I've watched so many videos on this subject now and I can't shake the 'what if' portion of my emotions. It's an endless void. I don't know what to do.
I dealt with exactly this, and I'm sorry to hear you're going through this too. It's very difficult. Trust your own judgement, like you used to before this relationship. You feel bad 80-90% of the time, what else do you possibly need than that to make up your mind? That is why the trauma bond is so strong, the 10% that you're feeling great is what keeps you stuck. I went no contact a month ago, so I know how hard it is. If you leave the door open, these people will make you wonder why you ever tried to leave. Like, what was I thinking, she's GREAT!? 🤷♂️ Until you're back in a relationship with them, that's when the games and the drama and the gaslighting and the 'help me I'm a victim in every imaginable area of my life' starts again. You already have all of this data. You already know what to do. You're watching videos from real professional confirming everything you're experiencing. What more do you need? My advice would be, walk away. No, RUN away. And then see how you get stronger and more capable and gain more perspective every day. It really is uncanny, I didn't believe it either, but once you get some distance and you're not so emotionally involved anymore, you'll actually get angry when you start seeing all of the ways that this person abused you - how they manipulated you, how they made you doubt your own judgement (like you're doing now), how they exploited you, kept you on your toes, kept you working harder than you've ever worked in any relationship of any kind, how they isolated you, made you question your own self worth, your own sanity, etc. Trust me, you're better than this. You've been here before, many times probably? Get out for good now. Go and spend your time and money and love on people who genuinely care about you, who don't make you feel like garbage "80 - 90%" of the time, there's your answer right there.
P.s.-Do NOT try to convince them they're a narcissist. They will turn that situation around and become so sweet and caring and seemingly in touch with you and with themselves that you will think you really were the problem all along. If the overarching feeling is one of confusion and self doubt, if you're constantly second guessing yourself or defending yourself, you're dating a narcissist. As someone who is deeply empathetic, who believes that every situation - no matter how bad - can be resolved, I didn't want to believe it either, but going no contact really is the only way to fully extract yourself from these relationships. You'll be in this same loop for many more years.
You can tell because if you follow good relationship communication advice, if you avoid their usual triggers, and they're STILL managing to pick fights and avoid accountability for their actions, then the answer is it's all on them. They don't have to be a narcissist per se. You just need to know they have many abusive behaviours that they refuse to change and you're well within your rights to leave and go no contact.
You're doing it to yourself. You still want security, safety, certainty, belonging and comfort. Immature people will keep trying to get this and stubbornly try to get it from old sicko narcy. Mature people will grow the hell up, accept they are not going to get what the want, grit their teeth and move on. Time to grow the hell up.
@@raccuia1 👍
Oh yeah... Suddenly it became "you and this therapist are ganging up on me..." Lise, you are recounting the last decade of my life and I simply cannot express to you how grateful I am to you, for this. I'm passed most of the healing stages already but to see it so succinctly packaged like this, makes me feel so much less alone and so hopeful that others might be saved in time.
Thank you for this video. I just had this insight that the therapist is the perfect person to triangulate. If you are questioning the advice a therapist gives, you can’t actually verify it with the therapist because of confidentiality agreements. So narcissists could make up anything to try and get their way and use the therapist as the foil.
The problem is, even after going no contact for years, my mind was hijacked. I had no sense of self. Because my thoughts and words were not mine. I took on all the personality traits of the abusers.
Do you have BPD?
Yep they definitely erode a persons sense of self and poison your mind via repetition of abuse! You can definitely find yourself again
Hi, are you there still? Could you tell me some details on it?
@SidneyWells I cut my parents and siblings out of my life four years ago. The problem is they are in love with their problems, and they don't want to get better. I worked on myself, exercising and lifting. I practiced self-discipline. I feel good these days. I was a size 42 waist four years ago, now size 32. Healthy body healthy mind. I never thought I would feel this good at sixty.
@@soundscapes4619 Good to hear that! Could you shed some light on your original comment as well? How do you mean your words was not yours? Also, so it looks like now you overcame on it?
my covert narc ex started going to therapy and then magically I became "emotionally unsafe" for her when picking up and dropping off our child. She has now used what she's learned in therapy to weaponize her victimization even more towards especially within her family and friends. The only change that has happened is she has gotten worse.
my ex talked me in to seeing her therapist with her in the very beginning of our relationship (she had an abusive past with a narcissistic mother). The meaning of that, in my opinion, was to get me to see things her way and go along with it. At some point her therapist agreed with me on an issue and my ex got SO mad and never went back to her again. She claimed "I turned her own therapist against her". A year later we went to another therapist for couples counseling and the same thing happened again, only she claimed "She'll always agree with you because you're the one paying the bill". She went to two more therapists (alone) after that but she left them both too. Its sad to think she'll never get the help she needs. I pray she does, but deep down I know that will never happen.
It's an all round sad situation. There are victims of emotional abuse on both sides of the fence and the suffering endured by all involved deserves some measure of sympathy. Let's hold onto the hope of healing for everyone.
At my insistence, my ex went to therapy. Well, neither of us knew what we were dealing with. I was operating under the traditional therapy narrative that he had an abusive childhood and he just needed therapy to help heal the inner child. Well, of course, he turned the therapist into a source of supply and it took her a couple of years to twig. Before she figured him out, it had flipped a switch and he became less communal/covert/white knight and far more grandiose and aggressive. At the same time, I became less willing to collude in the narrative that he was a victim and began insisting on the truth and making hard boundaries [I had had it]. This was a dangerous cocktail. Literally. Dangerous. I'm 5'4" and he's 6'3". Therapists who know nothing about narcisissm [and most in my city don't, or at least, didn't throughout my 30 year roller coaster marriage] are putting people at real risk.
I am a covert narc/borderline. I have done this in a much softer fashion, but I still did it. I don't want to do that kind of thing anymore.
I really enjoy your videos and I have learned much from them. Please keep up the great work.
I appreciate the deep understanding and compassion you have for those with NPD. But honestly, after listening to you and other experts on this issue, I would say it is very rarely advisable to stay in a relationship with an NPD. As a Christian, I don't want to believe anyone is broken beyond repair - but only God can heal people this broken.
Can't fix a inner species. That is exactly what they are. God I believe gets our attention one way or another.
I hope to believe that my ex was not a narcissist because it’s something I wouldn’t want anyone to have to endure. Although there were so many characteristics I can now identify that’s could be considered narcissistic, it not in me to make that call. I separated myself from her and it’s been a while and I haven’t heard anything about or from her. I pray she’s well. I hope she’s safe and the grace of God keeps her in good spirits. Stay healthy and safe inside your body 😉
I wouldn’t wish this disorder on anyone either. It is painful for everyone involved.
Wow, I totally agree, I noticed our daughter changing 100% after it
I need to talk you ASAP! This is the worst part about therapy.. I can never talk to anyone when I need to.
I ve been trying to figure out what I’m doing and my disaster of a life. For years I feel clinicians skirt around pinning down any diagnosis and focus on the process. I cannot diagnose myself, so I’m not saying that I have this, but it’s strongly resonates, and if it is the actual obvious answer that I was oblivious to well, I wish somebody just clued me in a few decades ago And could’ve spared everybody disasters
Another excellent Video.
Imagine asking Cruella de Vil to go to therapy and then set your expectations accordingly. 😂
One word, excellent. Thank you
Thank you for your positive feedback, I appreciate it very much!
Awesome video. A lot has changed from this is just software to recognizing that its biological as well. Explains why it continues generation after generation with some variation.
Wow, I am pretty sure this is what my ex has done with her therapist, as she's been going to them for years yet no change in her behaviour and they said exactly the same thing that I'm good and supportive for her.
I became a narcissist when I lost my short and long term memory and I had a game plan with my therapists and then moved away this is all pre COVID and then began to not follow the plan and make the plan a priority and then it consumed me. Right now I'm trying to figure myself out and get back in that plan but I can't remember it. And I'm not mad at myself I just know that I'm at fault and I should be better than this in order to help my wife's problems and my own
In retrospect I am not a narcissist I was just dealing with TBI not having medication that I actually need
Before i even knew about Narcist. My partner suggested we went to counseling after coming back from her having an affair. She opened with i have never got over loss of my wife 20 years earlier .and never even mentioned the affair. The councilor just focused on this being the issue. And my partner just steered the conversation towards this in every session.
I think it's possible that either I or my wife may be covert narcissist types. I really do love her, and want to stay together and have it work. We're finally starting therapy now, I can't wait to see how it goes. I'm actually excited.
3:12 and 4:37 can be related 😉
It sure is with my brother who doesn’t realize he’s the narcissist.
My brother was brutal enough for me to need years of therapy starting in my 20s. Ultimately I’m thankful for the therapy. Anyway, I was shocked when after one of his violent breakups he decided that like me he’d get therapy (I was 5 years in at the time). Within 2-3 months he said his therapist “graduated” him as the fastest patient he’d ever had, that all his problems were behind him, and he should go straight back into the same relationship situation “just to be sure” things didn’t repeat.
His next gf was a “non-single mother” who left her husband for him and she was actually just as abusive to my brother as he’d been to me growing up. Everything’s worse than ever before for him but he only sees himself as the “fastest psychotherapy patient to graduate ever” so obviously he’s permanently immune to any relationship issues.
Either he played the therapist like a fiddle or the therapist figured him out and flattered him to make him leave. I sure hope it wasn’t the former because that would be one terrible therapist running around.
My mom has bpd or some sort of cluster-b. I'm 37m and I was always subconsciously attracted to covert narcs. I ended up with anxious attachment fear of abandonment and self-worth issues with the people pleasing tendencs. That means if one of your parents is npd it's not necessary for you to become one. But you are definitely attracted to what is familiar. In the begining of dating stages chose the girl that doesn't spark your anxiety which you might confuse for chemistry.
WOW!! Every word you speak is so intelligent. This one is one of the best I heard from you. And, that is saying a lot. This video is so educational. Thank You!!!!
I am wanting to learn about the overlap between a Quiet BPD and a Vulnerable Narcissist, which is appartently where my ex partner lies. Ugh the levels of reality distortion really messed with my head 😵💫😮💨
This happened to me. Didnt know I was dealing with BPD until the bomb went off. Couples counseling started after potential infidelity. We were referred to the counselor by her therapist. 2 years in we had healed tremendously. I insisted we keep going as she would breathe sanity into the marriage. Well we got to around 5 years of seeing this woman and my wife nagged me until I exploded during a session. They later had a one on one and talked about how abusive I am. Im not perfect. I definitely have issues of my own, but the discard was fueld from this encounter and was outrageously disproportionate. Marriage over. Officially divorced last month. 15 year relationship over with our entire history rewritten and guess who is the eternal victim? Life sure has been peaceful since, but that trauma bond is rough.
Yeah, when they've brought increasingly more drama and taken up so much real estate in our head, then the void rages at us when they are gone. That's a visceral description of the trauma bond. We're left trying to figure it all out.
There's no counseling these people
You need to use your energy and heal your self
You didn't cause what is wrong with these people ,can't control them
Can't help them RUNAWAY as fast as you can
@@paultownsend8443 I wouldn't say there's no counseling these people. Studies show that 53% w/ NPD can go into a type of remission. It's still almost a 50/50 crapshoot. They have to really want it, work really hard, and get a very qualified counselor w/ enough skill and balance themselves to not be manipulated, like some of the stories Lise was telling. What the hell was wrong w/ that therapist that narcissist could convince them she should be able to have contact w/ her ex that she cheated w/? The therapist was as crazy as the narcissist, holy smokes.
You can feel good within yourself that this is well known and explained here. You are not alone and am free to try stuff (freedom). Dont drink to much. 🙂
I went to therapy with my Narcopath Ex after I left her for the second time and she tried to "kill herself" for the second time...she went to 4 or so sessions before I was asked to attend...I arrived, sat down and then proceeded to be attacked by her and her therapist...she somehow managed to turn the whole thing around on me, even though the reason I was leaving was that she cheated and was caught red handed...stupid stupid, confused me stuck around and eventually ended up getting attacked with a steak knife and stabbed...I packed my shi*, quit my job, booked a plane ticket and fled from South Africa to the UK...that was 7 years ago now and I have ZERO interest in women any more...I live a nice, quiet and drama free life!
Listening to this video it`s kind of soothing to know that it wasn`t just me that got walked willingly into that mine field...
Holy fuck
😅😳 I'm relieved that you got out of there. Wow. And I'm so sorry that happened to you.
I've been manipulated, gaslighted, and threatened on a daily basis. Some of the threats were he was going to kill himself if I didn't do what was asked, he would punch pillows or sofa, stand up against me and yell at my face, stand behind the car and not let me leave, sometimes we would be driving and he would threaten to swerve and hit any truck, hold my arms and shake me, push me aside to a wall, and much more. My in-laws were also very verbally abusive towards me. I wasn’t allowed to visit my family or friends. If I did or wanted to, I had to be ready for an argument. Every day I was reminded that I am nothing and that I was not worth fighting for and that I don't meet the standards of being married to their son. Recently, I found out he was cheating on me and had a girlfriend. After seeing the texts and pictures, I became numb. I've been a good wife, I listened to every insult and fight. I never gave up what I knew, thanks to this hacker who's helped me to extract enough information from his device. Someone on here shared a link to the hacker who helped cloned his phone without physically touching it. All I did was send his phone number to him and through a remote link sent to my email, I was able to access all of his texts, emails, Facebook and Instagram chats, real-time call listening and his long deleted messages as if the phone was physically with me. Perhaps, you are in a similar situation and you need help you can get in touch with him
Email:
instagram.com/markclinton2424/
Very similar story to mine. Enjoy the peace and lack of drama.
Narcopath? Why are you making up terms? You should know that makes zero sense.
narcissists have only one goal when they go to therapy: to gain information so that they can adjust their behavior, to manipulate even more sophisticatedly, and therefore continue their game
or to manipulate the therapist
Are you guys narcissists? Do you know anything about narcissism because I am a diagnosed narcissist who is looking for true healing and your judgmental and condemning crap isn’t encouraging anyone to try and strive to be a better person.
Love this
@@MrBurkistan If you are indeed a diagnosed narcissist and are going to therapy, looking to heal and make yourself a better person; then, good on you. I am glad that you are on that path. Don't let others put you down as you are doing things to improve your life and be good in the world. If you are indeed a narcissist, by going to therapy to improve, to heal past wounds, you are in the minority and that is something to be truly proud of that you are on a path to enlightenment. I only say that you are in the minority as statistics show that true narcissists, not ones that are misdiagnosed, do not seek therapy and such to improve themselves. They use it as a game to get the upper hand; that is what statistics seem to indicate. If you were properly diagnosed, in your case, it is different and you are trying to heal from old wounds, to be a better person. I applaud you for that.
@@MrBurkistan I’m sorry, but you don’t heal narcissism it’s a personality style that doesn’t go away. You just learn how to manage it, but these commenters have been abused by your people, so forgive us for venting our frustrations.. disordered thinking people do not change how they think they just manage how they react but they never really change.
Never tolerate any disrespect
I am a narcissist can confirm everything told is this video is true. Even now that i know my defenses thr first thing is always blaming others and feeling immense anger, like bloodthirsty anger. My mind is a curse. This organ is too powerful and its diseases are insane compared to other parts of the body
You are not alone.. this is so relatable
I sincerely thank you for sharing. I hope my thanks helps you if even only a little.
You see you are helping others like me to understand and it’s very hard to come by since the go to advice (including in this video) is to run away. Or at best to keep relationship shallow.
But I love my son and at least seek to understand where he is coming from and your comment is incredibly helpful. Many 🙏 thanks.
@@eddybella9073 three months since this comment and improving everyday. I agree with the runaway though. Don't try to understand him, just support him but he needs to go therapy and figure out himself you can't enter his mind. Hell its hard af to even enter my own mind, so hard I've need more than a year of therapy to get to the soon to become good spot I am almost in. Just support him, don't try to understand, let the therapist and him do the work. Only they two can change him. Seek therapy yourself if you need him.
Aš I understood, things are looking better for you? All I found today, not yet diagnosed but a lot of things clicks for me, is that basically this NPD type is doomed for life. Please tell me I'm wrong and it actually somehow gives hope
@@ilcorbellodipianoia8646 sounds like you’re on a great path!
Your insight is very valuable. Thank you.
I don’t understand why they make medication for the ones who get traumatized by the narcissist, but they don’t make any medication to try to rewire the narcissist.
this 😢
My mother and stepfather had my brother, sister, and me go to therapy with them when we were kids.. The therapist said that us kids did not have to be there.. Then later in life I went to therapy with my mom.. The therapist said that they wanted to be my mom's therapist so I would have to find one of my own.. My experience is that my mom wanted to go to therapy so that she could get her way.. This is a very dangerous person.. Even with watching all the different people talking about Narcissism I still can't understand why she does the stuff she does.. She is also and alcoholic and there is so much similarity of behavior.. I have read in the AA and Alanon Literature that alcoholism is a cunning and baffling disease and I find that is true between alcoholics and narcissists..
My ex wife is a covert narcissist victim who arnt trying to fix anything. She went for over a year and every month she got more distant and worse. Gilt and shame that they fell is self inflicted wounds.
During the discard, when he didn't bother with masking, I asked him why he used the same technique to love bomb his new supply i.e love emails and texts (I caught him cheating) as he did with me all those years ago. He smirked and said "because it works". He also said he wished he could experience unconditional love like I had with my children as he didn't feel the same about his own children. I told him he had a problem with love. He agreed. It was his most honest moment in our entire decade long abusive nightmare relationship.
The one true video to help me. I will change. I don't want to be a narcissist anymore. Il will do it.
I have always depended on the kindness of strangers...
On the one hand, I want to be empathic, I want to help. But on the other hand, I can't stand all of this abuse, anger, accusing me of all bad things, blaming me....I don't want to be a bad person. Who am I? How can I help myself and not to hurt my narcissistic husband? Is it possible that I am narcissistic too and I don't know it? God help me...
I’m a covert narcissist and I don’t say it proudly. I need help I don’t want to live like this . I want a normal life and long lasting relationships. I’m the f… problem. I’m scared , please help me
Start with the likely source of the narcissism - CPTSD. Spend a few years (or 10!) working on treating your complex trauma and the narcissistic symptoms should weaken
My partner recovered fully from bpd and related disorders. The therapy she had didn't involve any couples work, and had failed in the past until i came up with home treatment for her neurological impairment. I promoted her subconsciously to use her therapist and never mentioned the subject. She never mentioned to me that she had been to therapy but it became obvious as her behaviour improved rapidly, and i saw the letterhead. It didn't take long before she had abandoned all ideas of toxicity and become a thoroughly likeable and caring person. It was like magic!
Can you tell me how you got her to subconsciously use her therapist without telling her?
@@mubarakbrar9937 it was surprisingly simple. She already had a CBT therapist but the treatment had stalled. I had already begun a self improvement regime and I leveraged my partners hyper-criticism to make a list which I then took to an informal meeting with the therapist. We made a vision board. I hid the vision board where it could be found, and it had the letterhead from her clinic. Because the therapist was female, on discovering my interaction my partner became insanely jealous and resolved to intervene, and to take over the interaction by excluding me. However, she was also jealous of my progress because several items on the board had been crossed out. I made her feel that she would be the only kid at the disco without a clean bill of mental health. She also felt validation because the contents of the vision board were derived from her missives to me. The therapist offered her a free session. It only took three sessions in all to complete the treatment.
I must add that the reason that the treatment had failed initially was due to neurological impairment, which we had managed to reduce to a manageable degree by an extended home treatment schedule that I had devised for her.
@@AboutThatLIFE207 probably not, since she lived happily until her untimely death last year!
Nice try but something went missing down the line bro - ask a grown up to help you next time.
@@AboutThatLIFE207 she became a completely different person after going through 'reconnection' and we reached a level of intimacy far beyond anything I've experienced. Why would she turn back to shunning physical contact? It's exactly the same as horse-whispering, which I've done. I used to get horses that were terrified of people and make them into workers in a very short time. These animals would come running over when they saw the bridle, whereas the home reared ones would kick up a fuss, occasionally. When they get rebroken, they go through an emotional catharsis, and smother the handler with affection.
It was my partners first time ever experiencing these emotions, and they were unique to me - no-one had ever seen this side of her before, and never will.
This only happened at the end of the treatment, when her attachment style shifted from insecure to secure. She then became able to think and act like an average person, free from all mental illnesses. By the time she passed away, all her wrinkles had vanished, except for laugh lines around her jaw and eyes.
It’s a strategy such as yours which you put together to get through to her in a method that resonated with her that is superior to the common advice of “just run the other way”.
I would so love to speak with you I’m so trying to understand my adult son AND ME
Ma'am can you make a video as to what a convert narcissistic who is willing to change themselves should do ?
This happened when my former brought mom to the session and made matters worse at home
End this toxic relationship. NO WIN
My beautiful wife doesn’t do counseling if criticism turns on her. She tends to only go to find out what’s wrong with me. She does see herself as a victim.
Interesting subject. My ex-wife had severe depressions a few years into the marriage. She has been unhappy all the time anyway, but the main trigger was, that we had a kind of contract, that I would bring home the bacon, while she would be concentrating on university in order to finish her education and to take care of our two kids. I delivered on our contract big time (house, two cars, extensive trips, etc...), she didn't. After 8 years she still didn't have her degree and an end to this was not in sight. Depressions was how she dealt with the situation. Causing her basically being unable to do anything and me practically having 3 kids to take care of and running the whole family like a single father, while working full time in a management position in IT. I was able to convince her to go to therapy in order to get her depressions under control and she eventually gave in.
The therapist never talked to me, only knew her side of the story. It didn't take long that she convinced the therapist of her never-ending self-pity as a victim of her environment and the therapist made me out as the root of every problem and she had a "pro" now to back up her narrative. It had been complicated before already, but from that moment on everything went downhill even more quickly. Her narcissistic behavior went through the roof. I was the one always being grumpy, she couldn't talk to me, I was handling the kids wrong, I was not caring for her desires and problems, I am the one who should get therapy, etc... the whole program.
I gave in to do couples therapy after she threatened me with divorce. Right from the start she was playing her victim role again and in the beginning successfully, so the therapist focused on me as the "dominant and controlling husband" who would have to change to give his wife more freedom. She wanted to utilize the therapist to get me under control and to gaslight me even more. I was defending myself wholeheartedly, because this perception of me was not correct in my opinion, since I was the one who put myself completely into the service of my wife and the family since years. But then something interesting happened. My wife had problems to keep up that narrative and she started to contradict herself more and more. After a few sessions the therapist sided more and more with me, resulting in the therapist calling my wife out: "Don't you think that you are a big part of the problem? The way how you are treating your husband doesn't leave him any chance to make things right for you without giving himself up completely as a person, leaving no room for his own dreams and desires!"
My ex-wife became furious. She started crying and accused the therapist to not understand her problems. Telling her that she was the one having depressions and not me, etc...
No surprise... that was the last session we had together! Things at home didn't improve either.
A few years later... our oldest daughter having psychological problems and being in therapy, life at home was not pleasant. We had a few family sessions with our daughter's therapist and my ex-wife was playing again the victim card for herself, but also for our daughters. That I was the ugly dominant husband/father and that all problems in the family were my fault. The therapist was very experienced. In the beginning she was falling a bit for my ex-wife, but after the 3rd session I got a call from her. She told me that her suspicion was, that my ex-wife was a covert narcissist, because she watched the way she interacted with me (gas lighting, passive aggressive, etc...) and that I appeared to be under complete control of her and I had not a chance against her (deja-vu from couples therapy), She called my ex-wife an "iron fist in a velvet glove". And she suggested that a separation is not always a bad solution. That was the first time I really started to consider this,. It was an eye-opener. I need to mention that my ex-wife ceased all contact to our daughter's therapist shortly after that, calling her an "evil witch". My ex-wife noticed my change in behavior and that she had partially lost control over me. She kept me even further on distance emotionally and physically. We had constant discussions about the huge problems she had with me and that I had to change, but she couldn't not talk about some of the things, because it was too hurtful for her. She kept things as always mostly vage. And whenever I was pointing out something she did wrong, she was constructing immediately a causal chain, that in the end the root for her behavior was always something I did and that she just reacted to me. By definition, I was the cause for everything that was wrong in her life. When I asked her why she was still with me, if I was such a bad guy, she always replied that she loved me and gave me the Darth Vader talk:" Yes, you are on the dark side, but I love you, because I know the there is still good in you."
She eventually started to have an affair behind my back. Skipping a few other hurtful things... when I found out, I made finally my decision and demanded a divorce.
Did she fight for me? Nope... The first things she did was going on dating platforms and having dozens of one-night-stand with random men... catching an STD along the way., And all this while we were still married and living under the same roof with our youngest daughter and in a fashion that I would subtly know what was going on. One Sunday morning I was sitting with my daughter at the breakfast table, She came into the kitchen, looking like sh*t after a long night with drugs and sex, sporting several highly visible hickeys on her neck. My first reaction was (sounding completely indifferent): "Looks as if you had a rough night...!?" She didn't find it funny though how I asked. Our daughter asked what that was on her neck and she explained that she was kissing with some men and that's what is happening sometimes. Another F in parenting for her.
This long story only contains a fraction what I had to endure over all the years in this relationship. But what really broke my heart was, that she alienated my oldest daughter towards me over many years. I was always wondering why she kept more and more distance to me, before she moved out, since we are pretty much alike and always got along great before she was a teenager. My ex-wife had made her her ally and my daughter was completely convinced that I was a bad guy and causing harm for her and her mother.
My daughter lives alone now and is in therapy herself (diagnosed borderline, caused by a toxic mother-child binding) and now she starts to realize what her mother did to her all the years and that I am the complete opposite of how my ex-wife portrayed me all the years. That I was the one keeping the family running all the years with unconditional dedication and love. We are starting to have great relationship again (still a long way to go though), while she minimizes the contact to her mother to the absolute necessary since a few months.
To all people having a covert narcissist as a partner: RUN!!! AND DON'T LOOK BACK!!! Because it will never get better, only worse...
I have wasted more than 20 years of my life on this person who didn't deserve it. Giving up my dreams and myself a long the way. Ruining my health and sanity. If you are in the same position, get professional help. You got abused and your mental wounds need to be taken care of, properly:
It will take me years to heal and to become myself again, but at least I have a positive perspective in life again for the last third of my life time...
I'm so sorry you had to endure all of this. Just listening to it sounds sickening. Covert narcissism in women is notoriously hard to recognise on first glance, but the more one observes and digs a little deeper, the truth always, always comes to light. ❤ I'm glad you are rebuilding your relationship with your daughter. I'm sure she appreciates it more than you realise. I wish you and your children all the happiness and peace you deserve. It is never too late to enjoy life. 😊❤ The past remains in the past where it belongs.
@@dollynina8992 ❤
If you do see them as great and amazing, more than likely there will be a problem. They may not like it when you point out their faults so that they can change.
his first problem is trying to stay in a relationship with a narcist and expecting them to change
Truly helpful. Not a wasted word. Thank you
I tried taking my x to Marriage Counselling but the therapist took his side.
When I look back I should have ended the relationship then, but I thought it would be better for my son to have 2 parents.
Gor most of the time I eas content, despite ring run ragged by his and my sons demands. Then i fell seriously ill. I was neglected and then abused as my business fell apart and the income dwindled I was accused of stealing and hoarding money from him.
It wasnt untill then that I started becoming educated on Covert Narcissistic Abuse. Just as I was about the leave he walked out claiming I was abusing him.
Ok. But what if someone really wants to heal?
Where do we find the trauma bonding videos? Thank you. ❤️🙏
Sometimes I feel like I'm the narcissist because I'm call selfish, cause I gave it all since dating up until now marriage of 3 years, but was always struggling to fit between her and her friends. Now i gave up, so I just became a workaholick cause I at least fell more appreciated there, and at least some people would ask me how my day is going, fast forward now got a toddler and in process of divorce, going to try counseling but what she wants from me I will never be good enough. It's a mountain I will forever climb with no end, and I'm tired and defeated, at 29 years, she's 34.
Another great video. So helpful. Thanks Lise!!
I’ve had therapy for years. Been in many support groups therapy groups.
It doesn’t matter what you are in therapy for it is not going to be easy. And nobody ever gets completely free of whatever issue brings them to therapy. In fact most people make 25 to 50% progress at best with issues like codependency.
So I don’t see anything really harder for a narcissist if they really want freedom and healing than anyone else. Most people with codependency when they realize they are going to be going against their family or spouse they settle for crumbs of healing. Narcissism isn’t any difference. Yes it’s a personality disorder but again anything you bring to a therapist that began in the formative years is going to be like pulling teeth.
What if your former covert narcissist best friend IS a therapist?
What happens when they train to be a therapist! 😳
Thank you so much for the content and awareness you bring!
I have an idea for a video. Maybe you can show some actual examples of the behaviour of the narcissistic partner? Especially female. As far as I have noticed, many men are likely not able to notice something like that or treat it as partner’s bad mood or smth.
Female narcissism is often described in abstract (in my opinion) terms like „emotional discard“ but I hardly see any actual examples of that. So maybe it would be easier to recognise a toxic behaviour if you recognise actual example of it from your practice or day-to-day life ❤
Lise has already made a video covering this if you look at her back catalogue. 👌🏼
I had to get out, but she has been going to solo therapy and it’s.. interesting. I can’t find much info about this side of things online but am extremely curious. She says she’s had this “death of ego” and ostensibly been working to change a bunch of stuff, but to me it’s the surface level stuff and she’s either using forceful tactics to try and get me back because of “how much she has changed”. Fine, not the way to do it but great she’s making some progress, however, she calls me fairly often in a really negative place and many of the old underhanded communication tactics come straight back out in the face of me trying to explain my position even a little bit. So I’m just not sure what to make of it.
Please deal with grandparent alienation. I overcompensated for my abusive childhood by indulging my now adult daughter. I believe that she has traits of covert narcissism like her father. Her therapist has encouraged her to cut me off from her family, which includes my precious three-year-old grand daughter. This type of alienation is becoming widespread with one out of four grandparents now being estranged from their grandchildren in the US. There's so much misery and social stigma associated with parental estrangement from adult children that it's not being talked about. I've been traumatized by this and have been in therapy myself, but this cutting off of family members without contact, warning, or discussion seems to be widely accepted now. It's unbelievably sad and detrimental to both the grandchildren and grandparents.
Look into getting grandparental custody with an attorney. My friend and their attorney won court ordered weekend custody here in Texas. You still have to deal with the headgames the Narc plays but get to see the grandchild. Best Wishes
I understand this. My son slowly started alienating us. We are asked him. Tried to find out why. His wife had been sociable towards then slowly started to stop coming with them when invited. He no longer has his life time friends. We are totally alienated. No communication. No not alone to see our only grandchild. We met him for 4 x days only... our time slot. Her mum is allowed to live with them, holiday with them etc. We are broken . Nobody talks about this
Immeasurably painful to be falsely deemed abusive towards grandchildren you adore. Adult N daughter denies both my granddaughter and I any contact with each other. The crudest vindictiveness I have ever experienced.
In order to initiate & follow through any kind of treatment for NPD they must first consider that THEY are the source of stress in their life.
One of the most common traits of narcissism is not taking responsibility for their own decisions.
It's always someone else's fault.
2 sessions after therapy with my covert narc (now) ex and he cruelly discarded me and told me to move out with our 4 month old son, out of nowhere, the week of the third session.
The voice to lip movement is off
Thank you for this very thoughtful reply to this important question implies that the individuals involved a
Have suffered enough to accept a painful change in their deeply ingrained outlooks in life. A person who has accepted a relationship with an NPD for any length of time needs to question his own vulnerabilities.
As for addiction disorders, I believe that it is the relationship that requires a long term mediation and accompagnement and not merely the individuals involved.
My ex covert narcissist gf went to therapy for 6 years, nothing was resolved. I asked her, do you think the therapist is helping you? She said yes, but I think it was a waste of time and payed for validation, or both of them were crazy, no idea, but thank god she is out of my life
My husband used therapy to make himself look like the victim while continuing to emotionally abuse me.
Get out and stay out!!!
They go to get, exactly like in the example, confirmation that they’re not the problem and tomcomfi their point of view. Often times it comes to the problem, if the covert narcissist came out by validating himself to much in childhood. Like the golden child. So they seek revenge with anyone who calls them out and takes off their mask.
One thing I noticed/ She was overreacting a lot - Toxic is an understatement with my situation.
My dad wanted to attend therapy with me so he could control me, the therapist and any staff. Dad did not accompany me!
I'm doing couples therapy, and it feels to me that the therapist is taking my wife's side on a lot of things. I'm not sure on if this comes from what she told the therapist about her childhood and the trauma she dealt with growing up. I starting to feel that her childhood shaped her into what might be narcissism.