I-VTM4/AWD Test: Honda Ridgeline | Diagonal and Offroad test! | complete review: Part 6/8
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- I-VTM4/AWD Test: 2017-2018 Honda Ridgeline | Diagonal and Offroad test! | The MOST complete review: Part 6/8
Here is the sixth part of our famous "Most complete review EVER" of the 2017 Honda Ridgeline! THERE IS MORE TO COME! Feel free to share us what you want us to show you!
2017 Honda Ridgeline
• 2017 Honda Ridgeline
1st Part: Exterior Walkaround
• Honda Ridgeline | Exte...
2nd part: Interior Walkaround
• Honda Ridgeline | Inte...
3rd part: Specs and Road handling
• Honda Ridgeline | Spec...
4th part: Compare Truck | Honda Ridgeline 2017 VS Toyota Tacoma | Chevrolet Colorado | GMC Canyon | Nissan Frontier | Ford Ranger | Mitsubishi L200
• Honda Ridgeline VS Tac...
5th part: The good and the bad!
• Honda Ridgeline | The ...
6th part: Diagonal and Offroad test
• I-VTM4/AWD Test: Honda...
7th part: 0-60mph / 0-100kmh
• Honda Ridgeline | Acce...
8th part: Rolling Shots
• Honda Ridgeline | Roll...
The Honda Ridgeline 2017 is the second generation of Honda’s midsize pickup truck! It's redesigned to offer both recreational and work users a higher degree of utility and versatility! It has a lot of cool features like the World’s first available Truck Bed Audio system! You have plenty of power from its new powerful V6 engine and advanced torque vectoring all-wheel drive system (iVTM-4) extend on-road and off-road performance! Inside the truck you can find a button-operated Intelligent Traction Management System that offers different operating modes, Normal, Snow, Mud and Sand. The system allows the driver to select the operating mode that best suits the driving conditions on the road ahead. Based on the setting selected, the system adjusts the drive-by-wire map, transmission shift map, Vehicle Stability Assist and i-VTM4 torque distribution for optimal performance in a variety of road or surface conditions.
After testing the new Ridgeline on our test track, we can see how well it handles. There is some wheelspin but keep in mind that this is not an "offroad" truck. Also when going up our big sand hill, we could not get the transmission to give us full power in first gear so we ran out of power at the end of it. There is not a lot of suspension travel but the Ridgeline is still one good and realiable truck.
Check out the test!
Spécification 2017 Honda Ridgeline Touring
- Engine: 3.5-liter, V-6, 24-Valve SOHC i-VTEC, Direct Injection
- Power: 280 hp @ 6000 rpm / 262 ft-lbs. @ 4700 rpm
- Transmission: 6-Speed Automatic
- 4WD/AWD: Intelligent Variable Torque Management (i-VTM4) AWD System
- Intelligent Traction Management: Normal/Snow/Sand/Mud
- Wheels : 18-inch aluminum alloy wheels with 245/60R18 light truck all-season tires
- Brakes: Power-Assisted Ventilated Front Disc 12.6" / Rear Solid Disc Brakes 13"
- Towing Capacity: 5000 lbs
- Payload capacity : 1584 lbs
- Fuel Economy(l/100km): 12.8L ( City ) / 9.5L ( Highway )
- Price: 36,590$ LX - 48,590$ Black Edition
Competition:
- Toyota Tacoma
- Chevrolet Colorado
- GMC Canyon
- Ford Ranger
- Fiat Toro
- Mitsubishi L200
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Gentlemen:
I would like to congratulate you on an excellent video. I have been fascinated by the Ridgeline ever since they first came out. Unlike most people, I was never put off by the "Flying buttress" look of the first Generation. I thought it gave the truck a distinctive look, but I could see where some people would prefer more traditional lines. I confess I have only owned one pickup truck in my lifetime. It was a 1986 Ford F-150 standard cab short bed 5.0 V8 with a 4speed OD Transmission. I bought it when I was single as a daily driver and for when I went hunting and camping. I had it outfitted with limited slip rear differential to enhance the 4wd capability, but the reality is, aside from the graveled /dirt roads that I travelled to get to the hunting / camp sites, the truck never saw true off road duty and I never towed anything.
On the flip side, it was not the most comfortable daily driver and had it's share of mechanical problems. Still, I endured it in my 20's. However, now I'm 57 , married and have a child and while I still think pickup trucks are great vehicles given the availability of crew cabs and the utility the bed provides, I now look at them in a different way. Now I'm more concerned with what the truck can do for me in inclement weather on paved roads ( rain, snow, ice ) rather it's off road capability since 97% of the time my truck will be on pavement. That's where this Ridgeline shines. I have test driven it and it rides beautifully, handles extremely well and is definitely something my wife would not mind driving. She would never enjoy a full size truck or even a Tacoma or Frontier. If I had to pick one truck as my daily driver, this would be it. It is FAR better on pavement than any of the others, especially on roads with intermittent patches of snow where one might not be able to engage a traditional 4WD system without damage and it could easily handle the gravel/ dirt roads I travelled in my youth. These days the only off roading I would do is on the beaches of long island taking my son surf casting and the "sand mode" in the new Ridgeline should make that a breeze. I thought it did great going uphill in the sand in your video especially since it didn't appear to me that you had "aired down" the tires which is standard practice ( required in fact on Long Island ) when driving in sand.
I think Honda did an excellent job designing and building a truck that fills a niche no other truck can and as far as build quality and reliability, you can't beat Honda. I've owned three of their vehicles and they have been the best I have ever owned. Lastly, to the obvious troll who can't say enough bad things about this truck. The Ridgeline's unibody construction is NOT a weakness. This vehicle has a fully boxed ladder frame underneath to which the body is welded, rather than bolted on like conventional trucks. It is extremely rigid and strong which is probably why it outperforms all other pickup trucks in crash tests, a big concern for me now that I have a family. Keep up the work work CQ.
wow thanks for sharing this great comment! We will try to get out the full review soon about this truck. Cant make any promess but it's only gonna be a matter of weeks.
Frank Trainor excellent write up. Like you I test drive it and fell in love with it's driving characteristics. I actually went ahead and bought it. It was the AWD RTS I got a phenomenal deal. I say this because so many people argue that it's not worth it at it's price point. I don't have all the bells and whistles but it has everything I need and I picked it up for 30,000. So when can pick it up affordably. You spoke very highly And i hope you decide yourself to purchase it if you're in the market
Thanks for the kind words. In fact, I AM in the market for a new vehicle. I owned a pickup truck years ago and my life has now changed to the point where I would be better served by a pickup truck than a car or SUV. I have no need for a Full Size Truck ( which have only gotten bigger since I had my F 150 years ago ) so i was looking midsize. Tacoma is a great truck as is the Nissan even though it's a little dated. And then I had to level with myself. I never really took my F 150 off road except for some dirt /gravel roads in upstate New York, which, in good weather, could be negotiated by a car. Plus, I have owned three Honda vehicles and they have all impressed me with their reliability and build quality. So I had to level with myself. Did I really want a killer off road truck that would punish me the other 95% of the time on pavement? The answer was no. The Ridgeline was the perfect solution as I suspect it will be for a many people. One of the biggest Honda dealers in NY is here in lower Westchester and I also happen to have a business relationship with them. They tell me that production of the lower trim levels (RT & your RTS) is very low. They Trim levels that they have the most of are RTL's and RTL-T's. They also told me that since they are behind the projected sales numbers, that they are making all kinds of deals. My dream would be to have the RTL-E, but it's a little rich for my blood. So I guess I'll wind up with an RTL or RTL-T. I'm sure I'll be as happy with it as you are with yours.
Frank Trainor Frank, to your knowledge, is there a problem with getting a NYS recreational vehicle permit for a Honda Ridgeline? It doesn't seem to be an issue when it comes to the Suffolk county beaches (the Smith Point beach, for example); however, it appears to me that the state beach access is only limited to the low gear 4×4 vehicles. Thanks.
That was a long write up but hit all the valid points. My lifestyle has also changed over the years. I'd like to scale down from my current Ram 1500 and I think the Ridgeline fits the bill. I've only put my truck in low range once to pull a subaru out if a ditch two winters ago and I don't offroad. The old school 4x4 system is actually quite sloppy on snowy roads and any modern AWD system would would be vastly superior.
The VTM-4 system in my 2007 Honda Pilot is awesome off-road. I bet this Ridgeline would be awesome off-road too with a 2” lift, all terrain tires, and sway bar disconnects.
Love your videos. You're the only guys that really show off the vehicles 4wd / AWD. Thanks!!!
Mercedes Benz Sprinter vans are built in unibody construction. RAM ProMaster vans are built in unibody construction. You will see more and more light to medium duty vehicles built in this fashion.
Grand Cherokee ... Cherokee
The most underrated Truck in America.
Excellent demostration as always! Your videos have been a big help for folks who can't decide on what to AWD/4WD vehicle to get.
To bad you didn't do the diagonal test with the different traction controls ON like the snow mud and sand options on the pavement section. Would have liked to see what the rear end does is Sand mode with both clutch packs locking the rear end.
That torque vectoring system kicks ass! I love mine!
This is a great truck and it is perfect for most Americans (I am even thinking about buying one) but I just finished watching the Forester video and by the looks of it the Forester did better on some the tests shown. The Subaru AWD system is just plain better than the Honda system. I saw lots of front wheel spin on the Ridgeline and not enough "torque Vectoring". I didn't see that much front wheel bias on the Forester. Also even in the sand test it seemed to struggle a little while the four cylinder Forester just plowed through. Someone please chime in and tell me if I'm wrong or agree with what I saw. I wish Subaru would just make a true midsize truck like the Ridegline but with their awesome AWD technology.
shedrick s Great comment, I agree with you. Both vehicles you mentioned are on my radar, if I chose the Forester I'd definitely have to go with the XT. I'll probably go with a used Ridgeline in a year or so because I need the open bed from time to time.
shedrick s The previous ridgeline had superior drivetrain logic in my opinion
youngblood23rb I hope u bought the 2017/2018 forester XT...sadly it’s discontinued now with the current 2019 treating more like add sport trim and that 2.0 turbo gone from the line up
They are both great vehicles, but my 2020 Sport, is all the vehicle I need! It fixed my cravings for a new vehicle! My sister has an Outback and loves hers, and the service department! I love my service department also! I can’t think of anything I’m missing. Just a comfortable vehicle to get in and out of! Love the trunk in the bed, and not needing a gas cap to deal with! With the competition today, they are all great vehicles, or they would be out of business. My truck is fancy enough for me, if I wanted something fancier, I would have bought a luxury vehicle, not a truck!
I would like to see someone do this same test with a Ram 1500 that has the "4WD AUTO" capable Transfer Case. I know you have one similar of an eco Diesel in the snow, But, I would like to see footage of Ram trying to do what this little Ridgeline did in this video on dry Pavement with one rear wheel up in the air like that climbing up slowly, then stoping and re-starting it's assent part way through the climb. I think many people would be very surprised/disappointed with the results while using "4WD Lock" and "4WD Low" mode from the "On-Demand" T-Case.
what is hard with full-size pickup is their suspension travel that can help a lot in our test. i will check what we can do for 2017 :)
With Nokian AT All Weather, it's amazing even winter in Northern Ontario and winter trips to Northern Quebec
Awesome! I love my 2009, and my 2017
Can you retest this in Sand mode? I would like to see it with the rear end electronically locked on the diagonal test.
Yeah the iVTM4 is amazing on and off road.
2nd Gen RL did well even with factory street tires
Thinking of getting 2" lift kit and New More rugged Nokian tires
nice tests. you should also test the truck 1/2 loaded to make it an everyday realistic scenario?
Just purchased a 2020 RTL-E and love it.
Very informative video. I may buy a Ridgeline someday. Question: Have you done or are planning to do a similar test on the 2019 Ford Ranger? Specifically, I am more curious how the 4X2 Ranger would perform in a similar test.
One can speculate on how the 4X4 would perform. I think those that do not choose the 4X4 option would gain considerable knowledge from such a review when deciding on their purchase.
honestly pretty impressive for what it is
Bad Drivers Of Bartow County Georgia Not for the price.
the price is a bit high but for the standard features and tech it's not completely absurd. i wouldn't buy one, but for someone who needs the cargo space of a truck bed without sacrificing the practicality of a fuel efficient and comfortable SUV it's good. it's a niche market, but there's still money to be made there.
Richard Mosqueda I bought a new AWD RTS for 30k I'd say that's excellent for the price!
Really? REALLY? Did you really say that? You hate this car. There's no way one can be that stupid
john smith or you just hate it because you don’t think it’s a “real truck.”
I love these tests!
Holy fuck! I can’t believe Honda’s AWD system actually does what it is supposed to do! Compared to Subaru and Toyota AWD systems! God I’m impressed!
Great video.
that is some impressive rigidity from a unibody truck. :O
Did you use sand mode in the sand?
Thanks
Hey Honda how about a 3" lift on the truck with some real tires
on TFL channel, they took ridgeline on small offroad course and the ridgeline has to be sidelined due to hot trans tempature
the only problem we had in the sand... the trans was not going back to 1st and sending full power to the wheels. So it was able to do the hill barely.
check out their gold mine hill vid, though, where they didn't have a problem. turns out you just have to know how to handle the ridgeline because it's not a 4x4 and you can't treat it like one.
During the uphill sand testing were you in the sand mode or just using normal mode on the first attempt??
James C sand mode all the time
The first time we wanted to go slowly and see how it reacted
@@CarQuestion how would you say the ivtm4 performed in the sand relative to traditional 4WD systems?
This is the HondaJet of pickup trucks.
It's performed better than I thought
It really is a great all round truck I just wish it was more like a truck. Dose that make sense?
It handled pretty well!
So why are the tires aired down ?....
you guys should do 2017 toyota tacoma sr 4 cylinder 4x4
I love the AWD
Also, do rear axle flex make a difference.
nice awd! would you say that since it shares majority from the pilot construction, that the pilot would also behave like that doing those tests?
I know this is an old post but yes. They're basically have the same drivetrain and awd system.
Honda's new i-VTM-4 shares NOTHING in design to the old VTM-4 from the old model. In fact, mechanically it is actually Acura's SH-AWD with its name filed off & different software.
I think Acura is owned by Honda
And go and check out the new Honda passport with the bed awd
New*
@@MavvyChiew Everyone knows that lol
So difficult to find out difference between normal, snow and mud modes -
all I want to know is which mode locks up rear wheels
None
Thank - you- I had a 2006 Ridgeline and I could - a bit disappointed
Simple no.?You don’t sound too informed- I really don’t think you know
you think we don't know!?
Car Question if you know, then can’t u tell me difference between normal snow sand modes. I think your video is great and I don’t mean to be insulting-thanks for all the info - Jim
Awd system getting better.
Is this with traction on or off
My key question is, “which has the best stability between multi link and solid rear suspension.”
I think it depends on what terrain and how fast because both have their best abilities on different areas
it good for what it was built for reliable and safety and not shake your spine handle like a car on the road good mpg and its a honda
Was the iVTM-4 engaged for these tests?
There's no on or off or engage or disengage.
this truck need some tires to tackle off road
No, it needs a new truck to tackle off road.
there are no set of tires that can make AWD work as good as 4x4, see how it has no tires spinning at the struggling points? that truck will get stuck on the most basic stuff
@@Phil_Goodman it depends on the 4wd were talking if it just a regular 4wd with no lsd or diff lock then the awd system will do better because with the awd it can distribute power to the wheel with traction unlike a open diff 4wd
I want a Ridgeline so bad!
I want to see a 2018 Ford F-250
Not too shabby :)
AWD + All-Weather Tires = Zero Worries ;-)
How can someone fit one piece 7 ft fishing poles on this thing?
in a PVC pipe mounted to the roof rack.
edit: it would also fit in the back seat when the seats are folded up.
Did you ever try that truck on 1:58?
?? not sure i understand the question
CarQuestion i meant you should take the truck thats unloading stuff on the background and do a diagonal. :p
Your videos are awesome, keep up the good work.
It could've been worse. But at least honda did manufacture its first truck
2:09 That's pretty impressive stiffness for a unibody truck.
If that thing flexed, do you think it would make it to production?
@@squidusn71 yes :)
great video i really like the sand spots but i can almost guarantee that i can do the same stuff in my pathfinder. ive walked up sand hills in it.
thanks for the comments! for the pathfinder maybe, we will have to test it :P
oooh that would be great! please do.
If he held the break just a little it would have helped him
Without a low range, i can see a lot of transaxle failures from overheating.
CACressida The "transaxle" or 6spd auto trans is cooled from the factory. The rear diff is not, but it only manages up to 70% torque and is essentially a wet multi-plate clutch, but it's fluid is also pumped and cooled to a certain degree. You'd have to be doing some very serious off roading to damage it
jjjrickey transcoolers only function at highway speeds, not slow crawls. It's easy to overheat and transmission by spinning up the torque converter trying to get the tires to rotate in off-road situations. Part of the low gearing of a two speed transfer case is controlled momentum and unstrained engine and transmission loads. Torque converters are the source of heat.
That is an interesting video, at least Honda put a nice warning light in. I would however stand by my original comment, "you'd have to be doing serious off roading to damage it". Now no, I wouldn't call that serious. I do stuff like that in my CR-V, only not as long around here, highest hills are only 500ft. But they were as hard on the truck as possible, I would have been going faster to avoid such heavy throttle to get over rocks, rather use some momentum.
All in all, it did overheat. My dad has a '16 pilot awd with dealer installed trans cooler: should be identical driveline as the ridgeline. The thing is a dog off the line when towing! First gear is way too high (numerically low) for mpg reasons, so it can't get into the powerband until 30-35mph. I wish they tweaked the transmission in the ridgeline to give it more gears lower. No huge need for hi-low, just a lower first gear. Our Pilot is however excellent at highway towing, plenty of power, no trouble at all stopping, got 16mpg towing a 3,800lb boat over 1,200miles.
jjjrickey the 2006 to 2016 ridgelines acutally have different tranny and engine then the pilot.
tranny has different gear ratios and an actual cooler in front of rad . and other internal parts
engine has bigger oil passages and different ecu mapping etc..
ridgeline has 5000 lb tow capacity
pilot has 4500 with 4wd and tranny cooler installed.
ridge has heavier suspension. dual piston brake calipers.
people say the ridge is just a pilot.
its not its also has a full frame welded to a unibody. not just a pilot with back chopped open.
this is just info off the top of my head from memory. there may be more differences.
also i tow a 20 ft poontoon once in a while 3500lb ish acceleration is fine.
2012 had a tranny gear change btw
even when i tow my boat 22 ft cuddy cabin. it accelerates fine. but i do drive light footed when towing.
3200 dry weight
1000lb trailer
plus 80gal of fuel
and 200 lbs of gear.
im right at the 5000lb mark.
also i haven't looked into comparisons to the new ridge and pilot.
Also not really built for off roading. Still does basic shit like a champ. 0-60 in like 6.6 seconds. Not great but not shit.
I want to like this because I’ve been a fan of Honda for a long time. Honestly though it’s not a very attractive vehicle and it’s off road capability is subpar. If you think it’s ok looking and you don’t ever go off road than I can understand buying it but I think there’s a lot better options for the price range.
Dear Honda. Take. My. Money! And let me trade in my AWD Sienna!!!
A better way would have been here’s truck going over hill in normal, snow, mud or sand - then you could see if wheels lock up
There is no mode that will make a wheel that will lock up
Car Question the older Ridgeline did
Central lock yes not side to side
What an amazing 4 inches of suspenson travel in this "truck" :P.
you have 4 inches and think its amazing, except the truck knows how to use it
@@turboearl 🥹
I think that on the sand, you should have used low range mode.
you need to keep up speed on sand.
Low range mode? it doesn't have a transfer case.
Jake Tow he talking about stuck mode
i think this truck have no suension and spring
soo much wheel spin on the tire that has no traction. need SH-AWD system
iVTM4 is SH-AWD
Ridgeline can tow 5000 lbs. load of rocks, 280hp engine competes with most ford or Chevy, don’t even bother arguing reliability,seen “4 wheel drive” full size pick-ups Chevy, Ford Stuck on little bump from street to drive way, wheels that spin are the ones on ice, limited slip useless, not Ridgeline - rides like a luxury car - sport model lights are pitiful dim, suburbu back up camera better
Typical front-biased AWD behavior... Would be perfectly adequate for a city truck duties.
sdfasdfvccvvc Typical? It's the only front wheel drive biased awd that can send 70% of its torque to the rear and then over drive either of the rear wheel faster than the front. Far from typical.
I can hear the lifter making noise already
OneNation 77 that’s just because it’s direct injected, all the new Honda V6’s sounds like that from the factory. You can’t hear it from inside the car
it's only because those tires are really bald
Good lord, you don't even understand the basics of what this video is about
Not bad, but definitely not the best performer we've seen
but one that can handle the road more than any other medium truck right now :)
CarQuestion agreed
Sorry 2017
.
That is not a truck it is a car lifted with a pickup bed why spend a crap tone of money for a ugly truck when you can get a real ford dodge or Chevy truck these things are way to small for a trucks job.
Bob Smith I can carry anything just about with a Ridgeline that a ford 150,. can I bought an extension that fits into 3 pt hitch for about 100 from jc Whitney,
And carry 16 ft lumber in back, can also make this extension to carry longer pieces on roof. Ridgeline rides like a continental and won’t break down like a ford or Chevy will.
@@jameshallahan4376 ok tell me this can your ridgeline haul a fully loaded dump trailer with rock? My f150 can also these ridgelines are built cheaply and lighter the new f150 still outweigh the ridgeline and still pack a punch with there engines. Where I live I do not see them doing truck work i see them with people wanting to feel big and powerful when in fact they are driving a lifted car with a pickup bed.
@@BobSmith-qi5di Why are trying to compare a midsize truck to a full size?
@@prettysheddy that's the thing these ridgelines do not even do truck work they are for people who want to say they own a truck without even using it as such. These things can barely tow a small uhaul trailer let alone a 20ft camper my ford ranger can tow more then these rolling piles of crap.
@@BobSmith-qi5di 90 percent of trucks are not utilized for truck purposes. They are literally people movers for men who just doesn't want a car. Secondly the Ridgeline is class competitive for towing and a class leader behind the new ranger for healing. Also I have a old ranger and that thing can't tow much as the power just isn't there.
It would work better if he'd quit driving it like it's made of glass. Afterall Honda did design it with a bit of abuse in made. LMAO
lol, it's not the point to jump the hill but to get the AWD system to work hard to get it higher!
@@CarQuestion the system is designed to not have to baby it up the hill. I.E. not varying the throttle. That's how the system knows what to do. Read the manual.
@@jamesheichel9465 sorry we hurt your feeling but we don't need any manual to figure it out... anyway, go check out the other video if this one got you too emotional :) The sand drive is also cool and faster, just how you like it!
@@CarQuestion are you mad because you read the manual??? I didn't know stating facts was an emotional response. But if you are that type of person good luck out there. But any certified mechanic, like myself, would tell anyone that owns a car to read their owners manual.
@@jamesheichel9465 we are not mad at all! we just do it like that in that test! it's no the #sendit type of test! maybe another time :) there is no link with the owners manual in that demo or vs a recommendation! how about you show us how you do it and send us the video? a+
Your intro is long and annoying.
Comes from the factory with "stuck mode" selection button. Yup
Joe Orcutt You got it. That button disables traction control, thus allowing the wheels to spin. Normally traction control limits engine output to keep the grocery getters from sliding off the road.
VTM-4 works flawlessly according to its intended purpose. Honda knows that 99.9% of the time this vehicle will be on dry pavement, they conveniently added the disable button for the 0.1%
Did Honda cut the back of a van off? Holy hell that thing is God awful ugly.
+American Born zzzzzzzz
Youd be better off buying a suv and a utility trailer. This is not a truck
Curious why you say it's not a truck.
+DrScopeify says people who know nothing about trucks or the history of trucks...
@DrScopeify And a jet is not an airplane because it has no propeller. And Amazon will never threaten shopping malls because they have no real stores. Your illogic is most amusing.
Junk!
Not impressed with the Ridgeline everything about it seems mediocre at best
Might be the offroad side (and I'm not it's mediocre) and the tow rating, everything else is best in class. Check your facts.
TataruRoman
Best at being an Accord as far as being a truck it is the worst .
4x4 no, frame no, it is a failure at being a real truck
and it is even too expensive to be a delivery vehicle.
Complete and utter useless vehicle
Honda should of learned with the first attempt
instead they are a sucker for punishment.
Honda should start making a real truck and leave the Accord project in the dust bin of history
You are very ignorant. If you're not in the market for such a vehicle, I don't get your hate towards it, I mean I would, if you had one and somehow found an accord under its unibody with an integrated frame... For the sake of trolling, you aren't that good at it...
TataruRoman
The truth about the vehicle has escaped you
the price is too high and the chassis is like an Accord ion
David Stanley I don't agree with any of what you said earlier but I must agree that the price is too high. This truck should be cheaper or at least slightly cheaper than competitors because uses a cheaper to manufacture unibody design plus front wheel drive chassis. I just don't think it should be priced as high as it is.