As a Baptist,I love to see our Methodist brothers and sisters preserving biblical standards. I welcome the GMC. May the Lord bless this new denomination.
Except the Methodists that “preserve Biblical standards” just surrendered their traditional denomination that is in possession of beautiful historic churches, seminaries and other resources to liberals … they ran away in the face of a fight.
Why Baptist and not Methodist? Methodists take sacraments and covenants more serious and spiritual tools of God, as instruments of actual spiritual power, while Baptists just go "everything's a symbol but we take the bible seriously!" Except the things that are serious spiritual presences of sacraments and covenants rituals.
A denomination is just a collection of like-minded people, but this isn't limited to similar theology. Cultural practices feature prominently in denominational distinctives.. What kind of songs are sung? What type of musical instruments are allowed (if any)? What clothing is allowed (or banned)? Grooming styles? Hair length, make up, beards? How are violators punished (if at all)? These shared opinions about culture are unrelated to salvation. They are simply human preferences. Which is fine, as we all have them. And birds of a feather, flock together.
Matthew 7:23 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Thank you very much for this timely, concise summation of the UNC"s situation as we emerge from the Covid experience. The New Year 2022 should result in a final decision and allow all Methodists to follow their conscience and tithe accordingly without fear of loss of church property in the future under the "trust" clause. It is past time to go our separate ways.
I may be coming back to the Methodist Church. Hope they return to the traditional hymn books and the tried and true music of the original church. I want to feel like I had just been to church and not a rock concert.
I left 15 years ago about the time I fully grasped what “ covert narcissism “ is and realized I had been wallowing in it all my UMC life up to that point. It was also about that time I realized that the UMC will not only not get better but worse. Bowen theory says that the more stress a family or group feels ( like the stress of declining revenue and membership in the UMC) the more a group becomes who they really are at their core. I expected the UMC to become more autocratic and more toxic and they have lived up to that the past 15 years and it will only get worse.
GOOD for you and everyone else who had the courage to get up and leave ! I, and my family of five, took our walk on the liberal Episcopal Church USA in 1988 because we did not want our adolescent children raised in the presence of the "new moral standards" which had been embraced. Thank heavens for four Orthodox Churches in our area, and we ended up in a parish of the Orthodox Church of America. I felt as if someone had thrown me a life preserver. My only regret is that I did not "take the walk" a lot sooner. Congratulations and Godspeed to all the good people in the Global Methodist Church. May God grant you those things necessary for your life and your salvation.
As a former Methodist looking on, it looks like the UMC is a church in name only now. Glad I left it after I left home. Hey when did the hand decide it knows better than the head anyway?
The liberals have been trying for many years, like decades, to remove the explicit statement against homosexuality. Like many denominations its gotten riddled with rot and weakened to the point of a hollow shell. Do not paint all UMC churches with the same brush as there are still a few that believe and preach traditional Wesleyan. It is all dependent upon individual pastors whether a congregation is solid or spiritually incoherent. The two types can be 5 miles away in the city. So deciding on a UMC church is a roll of the dice. Its best to split up, let the liberals cluster under one umbrella and the conservative traditional Wesleyans be under their own distinct label. I will be under the conservative & traditional so as not to be confused with the liberal non-biblical "church".
@@jetpilot3714 It looks a whole lot like Black Liberation Theology, a Marxist organization. Obama has been a member for over 20 years. I’ll stick with the new Global Methodist Church. Looks awesome!
@@katherinepll You have no authority to speak on our heritage or theology if you are not a Black person involved in this tradition or church so hush and stop spreading lies. You all will label any and everybody you hate or disagree with as “marxist”. You probably couldn’t write a three sentence summation of marxism anyway without google. Stop.
Religious people seem to ignore that God backs/honors His Word and not the bylaws of a religious organization, no matter the size. Just ask Noah if it mattered what the majority thought about a potential flood.
Overwhelmingly, it was Methodists in countries outside of the US that pushed for a more conservative interpretation of things- they had more representatives. Thus the split. My congregation's denomination is now considering providing ministers for the less theologically conservative churches if they want them (some of our ministers prefer the traditional services anyway, so it works out for those ministers). Grace and peace to all.
I believe many Methodists in the US are unhappy as well with the changes in church policy. As someone who once attended the UMC this saddens me to see people who are lifelong members feeling abandoned as so many denominations go " progressive".
It is so weird to me that the churches that keep the existing practices have to leave and create a new denomination. It is more logical to say that those that want new/progressive ideology should form the new denomination. This in particular has caused real issues for older members that hold their denomination name so closely. A good example of why to keep Jesus and his examples/teaching as #1.
Thank you for that unbiased, straightforward presentation of the issue. I appreciate that rather than opinion, you relied on documented statements from both sides of the aisle.
One correction. The split is not primarily over homosexuality. That is the presenting issue, but more like a symptom. What is really deep underneath of the division is the radically different views of the inspiration and authority of Scripture. That is where the real issue is, but people, find homosexuality more exciting to talk about than theological issues like the inspiration and authority of the Bible.
I don't think that's an accurate representation of the disagreement. A different interpretation of scripture does not mean there is a difference in beliefs about the inspiration or authority of scripture.
Dear@@zacharydunn6577, "different interpretation of Scripture does not mean there is a difference in beliefs about the inspiration or authority of Scripture." Not necessarily, however the two concepts (interpretation and inspiration or authority of Scripture) are strongly related ! There are many examples of personal interpretations that have a derogatory effect on the inspiration or authority of Scripture. Any time a personal interpretation, violates sound hermeneutical and exegetical principles to manipulate the understanding of Scripture, to conform to a presupposed ideological belief, Contrary to the norms of the Christian worldview, harm is done to the concept of θεόπνευστος (God-breathed Scripture) and the authority of God's Word. Funny how people think it is ok to have a variety of different personal interpretations, as if everyone in entitled to their own personal interpretation of Scripture. One of the very basic tenets of Christianity is to understand what God is trying to communicate in Scripture, not eisegetically inject our own perspectives into the interpretation process. It doesn't matter what we think Scripture is saying; what matters is what God is communication in Scripture. He is the author, so it is His perspective. That is why we teach hermeneutics and exegetical principles in our Sunday School classes, so people can learn the process of objective interpretation, to prevent our own personal interpretations of Scripture, that "tickle" our own ears, or manipulate Scripture to fit our ideas and beliefs. "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." (Rom. 12:2) It is obvious that God does not conform to the moral and ethical norms of our culture and society, instead the culture should conform to His standards. Humans are made in His image. It is completely wrong to recreate God in our image, to fit our cultural and moral standards. Be Well, DZ
@@Silverheart1956 you talk as if there is one true interpretation of scripture, but which of the hundreds of different interpretations is it? We wouldn't have the vast number of different groups of a Christians if it were so simple to know what the "true" interpretation was. Is it the Catholics that have it right? The United Methodists? The Episcopalians? The Southern Baptists? Two Christians can fully agree about the authority and inspiration of scripture and still disagree about how to interpret language that is at least two thousand years old and has been translated through multiple languages.
Dear@@zacharydunn6577, Great Question ! (by the way great name: Zachary) There was once a group of people admiring and commenting on a work of abstract art in a museum. One says "I think it is a meadow of wild flowers", another said "I think it is a stand of trees, a forest", Another said "oh, I think it is a group of cattails by a pond", and others told what they thought is was. Finally someone in the back spoke up and said, "Nope, you are all wrong ? The group wondered who is this rude person who is telling everyone that are wrong ? Who is he to judge our interpretations of the painting ? Some shouted, "Ok just tell us what you think it is". He spoke up and said "I know what it actually is, it is a group of people standing and watching balloons in the sky." Someone immediately remarked, "what makes you think you are the only one who is right ? The man remarked, "because, ... I am the artist who painted it." Who knows the correct interpretation of Scripture ? God does, because He is the one who wrote it. "All Scripture is 'θεόπνευστος' (God-breathed)" (2 Tim. 3:16) "but which of the hundreds of different interpretations is it? " Easy question ! It is God's interpretation, that is the true interpretation. The difficult issue is, how do we ascertain God's understanding and meaning of Scripture ? Obviously that is a little harder. Steps: 1. Attitude - Understand and accept you must desire to be intellectually honest and open in understanding what God's meaning for Scripture is and avoid injecting your own suppositions and presuppositions into the process. This is very difficult. Defending our own traditions, assumptions and bias, significantly hinders an honest, objective approach. 2. You must be a genuine Christian. It is difficult for the natural man to understand and discern Spiritual matters because they are Spiritually discerned. (1 Cor. 2:14) 3. Pray for the Holy Spirit to guide your research and help you find God's understanding and meaning. 4. Follow sound hermeneutical and exegetical principles to maintain objectivity. Sadly, many Christians never take a course in hermeneutics and exegetical principles. That is one subject I teach in Sunday School (They are usually surprised when they discover I give tests). Funny how many people assume they need no training to learn how to interpret Scripture (but they need training in so many lesser things). Please tell me, would I be correct in assuming you have never had a course training you in hermeneutics and exegesis ? 5. Be thorough. Adequate research is really hard work, the more you dig in, the more complete your research will be. Many people simply do not conduct enough research and end up with a superficial, incomplete understanding. 6. Understand that we may not be able to understand and interpret every thing. Some things in history has been lost to time. However, sometimes we are able to rediscover some lost meanings through research. Examples : A. We have recently found the lost city of Ai (the one Joshua conquered) through the discipline of, archaeology. Many people questioned the historicity of Joshua's conquest because what we thought was Ai, didn't fit the time era. We had the wrong ruins, ... looking in the wrong place.. B. Koine Greek (the type of Greek the NT was written in) is different from classical Greek and some things in the NT didn't make sense because we where interpreting text based on the grammatical rules of classical Greek. Through grammatical studies we know much more about Koine Greek Grammar than we did 400 yrs. ago. For example the discovery of "Granville Sharp's Rule" has enlightened our understanding of a few passages (Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1). 7. Some things are more significant that other issues. If we use objectivity in our interpretation of Scripture, there should be very little disagreement in the "Primary Doctrines". These are the very significant, foundational teachings that separate Christianity from other religions. Interpretation of "Secondary Doctrines" are a little more difficult because there is more ambiguity in Scripture. These are more difficult to interpret because the Scriptures gives less information. "Secondary Doctrine" are what separates the different denominations within Christianity. So even though we may differ on these issues, we are united in the "Primaries". Of course, then there are the "Tertiary Doctrines". There can be lots of disagreement on these because of a lack of information to interpret by. These differences in understanding may exist within a local Church. Sorry I rambled, but a great question deserves a fairly adequate response. I hope this helps a little bit. Be Well, DZ
Chelovyek I question the membership figures cited by the UMC. Purges of membership rolls seem few and far between. Where I live there are maybe 5-6 strong Methodist churches spread over a wide area. The remaining few seem to be dwindling. Interestingly, two very different types of churches here are showing dramatic growth: non-denominational Protestant congregations and Eastern Orthodox churches.
True of many areas. As a member now of a more traditional Weslyan influenced church, Free Will Baptist, we are losing members to the mega- churches and more historically orthodox churches.
Keith, you really believe that? I’d guess you have not examined the beliefs and practices of the African church. Please, for your sake and the sake of those you impact, educate yourself on the topic instead of spewing easy bromides.
@@Jack-eo5fn You might be referring to the African Charismatic Church which I agree like charasmatic churches everywhere, can have some issues. But, J M, the UMC churches in Africa are operating by God's inspired, inerrant, infallable word and some of the UMC churches in America that are compromising into a secular culture could use some serious pointers from those people.
I am Bi, raised in the UMC. We has a few open gay and lesbians in my congregation. When I was ready to come out, I talked with them about gay marriage and the church. My understanding till this day is that God loves us no matter how we love. But gay marriage is against his will and a sin. Asking a church to sanctify a sin, would be the same as asking the reverend to preach openly for turning our backs on God and embarrassing Satan. God will love me no matter what, and I will try to be worthy of that love. But I will never ask a church to violate its sacred mission, no matter how much I was in love with someone of the same sex. I got married once civilly and can do it again if needed.
@Matzu-Music For me and my beliefs, it's a matter of faith. I don't give a f#$% if anyone thinks I'm a hypocrite. How I express my faith and what I believe is between me and God. In the UMC, we don't take anyone else's belief system. We are encouraged to find our own by questioning and exploring the Bible. I don't owe you or anyone else an explanation of my beliefs. But let me say this, when I was looking for acceptance in the LGBT+ community, they turned their back on me just because I wasn't lesbian enough. My church accepted who I was and never asked or pressured me to become straight. In my life, it was the church that was more open minded then the LGBT+ community.
Read Romans. Its that simple but if you don't follow scripture you could read the entire Bible its not going to make any difference anyway. Satan will welcome you that guaranteed.
To God sin is sin. We are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God! Jesus died on the cross in payment for our sins, if you accept him as you Savior. The Bible clearly states homosexuality is a sin, but so isn't lying, cheating, swearing, etc. the list could go on forever. Jesus said all the commandments can be summarized into two. First love God with all your heart mind and soul. Second, love your neighbor! That about sums it up. I respect her position and agree that the church shouldn't in essence condone sin.
I just walked away from the UMC. I will not support evil. I grew up in the UMC it breaks my heart that the church has left the teaching of God's word. The church has followed the ways of the world. If the world says its ok then so be it. SORRY not happening in my home. I will find a church that follows God's teaching. WOW is all I can say! Just being honest!!!
Might I suggest the Catholic Church? We've got 2000 years of institution and tradition to protect us against modernism, not to mention the guidance of the Holy Spirit as promised by Christ.
@Esther "Does not follow or worship the True Messiah," huh? That's one I haven't heard yet. Is the True Messiah someone other than Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages? God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made? Because that's who Catholics worship.
@@SquirrellyFries I am sorry to say that I am unable to get past the repeated Catholic tolerance of covering up for pedophile Priests who have scarred children and took no real action to completely stop the possibility of.further abuse on other children at a later date. Simply moving around Priests to different areas and not prohibiting their access to children alone, showed no respect for innocent young children. The volume of victims that have come out is staggering. Even Nun's have come out revealing horrible torture practices along with rape by Priests that occurred over many years in Convents. Molestation by Priests on young children is the highest degree of possible betrayal. Not only are their lives shattered, but they are often left with no religion or faith to call upon as they grow older. Had the Pope and officials addressed this abuse immediately and with broad procedures to ensure abuse was addressed with prompt removal of offenders instead of simply relocating them to different places to reoffend, one could have worked to try to find resolution of this violating sin knowing children were safe from further abuse and counseling and legal avenues assured if around children. Satanic rituals involving children and child trafficking involvement ínvolving the Vatican and the Pope will be revealed in the near future. I feel for Catholic believers but do not know how the church will survive after proof is confirmed and made public without some monumental change in church procedures. I am sorry parishioners have also been so betrayed by Vatican City.
It does worldwide. However, American congregations by a narrow majority support acceptance of LGTBQ+ as pastors, and support nontraditional marriage. At the international conference it was United Methodist representatives from African nations who constituted a sufficient number to deny the progressives a win on the issue. If it were up to American UMCs only, these issues would already have been resolved in favor of LGTBQ+ membership in the clergy and nontraditional marriages. This is a very concise accurate summation of the situation as we all emerge from the Covid experience.
@@sarisigmund2115 In any case, membership figures in the US are greatly exaggerated. I would question worldwide figures as well until they are corroborated.
17 years ago when I was a Methodist a Methodist pastor in my church told me there is nothing in scripture against homosexuality and that it was natural. I knew then I did not belong in that Methodist church. It was obvious I knew more about scripture than that minister and more about natural selection as well.
Ray Vick, actually your pastor was correct. For starters, see Ezekiel 16:49 - the sin of Sodom was arrogance, gluttony and greed. The men of Sodom wanted to protect their possessions against traveling strangers so they locked the city gates. When they heard that 2 angels were already inside the gates, they went to Lott’s house and demanded he bring them out so they could rape them. This was common punishment against invading armies. The men were raped and humiliated. Ezekiel tells you what the real sins were. “The people of Sodom were greedy, gluttonous, and arrogant. “ Sounds like most Americans today.
@mineben256, actually Paul was a self proclaimed Apostle after his dream, but his authority was always the subject of disagreement among authentic apostles. You don’t get to have a dream about things you used to do and then make yourself king. If Jesus actually appeared to Paul in the sky, he would have instructed or called him to mission. But he did neither. As for Jesus utterances on any issue, it was 40 to 70 years after he died before any of the 4 gospels were written, which means we don’t know what he actually did or said about anything. Oral traditions are never considered to be reliable.
He is still in his grave. Just like when Jesus called to Lazarus and he came out of the tomb (not down from the sky), Wesley is asleep in the grave waiting for Jesus to call him out.
@@whitebeardInn Wesley was born of God. "God is a Spirit." (John 4:24) "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6) "Because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and THE SPIRIT SHALL RETURN UNTO GOD who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:5, 7) This cannot be referring to the Holy Spirit, "for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." (John 7:39) Lazarus' death was BEFORE Jesus' Resurrection: That is why he was still in his body. Bless you!
@@whitebeardInn sorry my friend, Wesley is not in the grave. Just as when Jesus told the thief on the cross...”Today you will be with me in Paradise”. When Jesus died on the cross that day, He broke the curse of sin and death. He went down to hell and set the captives free. Those who served and worshipped Him all the way from Adam. All those who died and who lived for God. Including Wesley.
@@emmanintz6448 I can understand the confusion. Although 1 Thess. 6:16 quotes it as the resurrection of the dead will happen at Christ return...it also states that John saw the Matrys and the 24 elders in heaven already before Christ 2nd coming. I am still studying to find truth.
@@hots4jc Matt. 12:40: “for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” On the day Jesus died, he did not go to paradise, he went to the grave as proved by Matthew. In the original Greek, there was no punctuation. Commas, periods, etc, were added many, many years later. The sentence, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise” could just as easily have been, “I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise”. Just like we say, “Let me tell you right now, you better…”, Jesus was using “today” for emphasis like we would use “right now” for emphasis. The Bible tells us multiple times that we sleep in the grave between physical death and the resurrection. I’m not SDA or JW, I’m just a Christian that tries to read the Bible in context and take its meaning as straight forward as I can. Don’t allow your learned biases (many we were taught from childhood) to change what the Bible really says into something people want it to say.
For God is not the author of confusion...1 Cor 14:33. God did not start these groups... May those who are seeking to serve Christ in Spirit and Truth be delivered from these false churches...
Agreed! They should join the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that Jesus started and has had an unbroken line of leadership led by the Holy Spirit from St. Peter to Pope Francis.
@@PianoForte9096 beg you pardon? The catholic church has nothing to do with God. It's full of abominations. Everybody who reads the Bible and has the holy Spirit can see that. Don't be fooled. Read the scriptures,repent of your sins and turn to Jesus and be baptized by immersion in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and be filled with the Holy spirit(Acts 2:37-38)/John 3:5-7) Unless you are born again of the water and the Spirit you won't see nor enter the kingdom of God.
@@CalledUntoHoliness I was born into Protestantism and spent my teenage years trying to find the truth in every Protestant denomination, including non-denominationalism. I read through the entire Bible, was "re-baptized" by immersion by a Baptist missionary (though I had been baptized as an infant), went on mission trips, and was studying collegiate-level theology daily. Then, I found the history behind the Catholic Church and, one by one, found that their beliefs totally align with Scripture and Apostolic Tradition. Baptism by sprinkling dates to the Apostolic Tradition in the 1st century (see the Didache), and to be "born again of water and Spirit" is to be baptized. Baptism is not "in the name of Jesus Christ" alone, but "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," as Jesus directs in Matthew 28. To be Confirmed, as I was this Easter Vigil, is to be sealed with the Holy Spirit, just as the Apostles realized in Acts 8:14-17. I do repent of my sins to Jesus -- both privately and in front of a priest, who has been vested by Christ to forgive sins as a successor of the Apostles (John 20:19-23). Do you?
@@PianoForte9096 All I can say is keep reading the scriptures daily, fast and pray and repent and ask the Lord Jesus to lead you in all truth. It's not about being born in protestanism. You got to be born again. The baptist church is false also, they baptize wrong and do not believing in the infilling of the holy Spirit . The truth is not protestanism, the truth is Jesus Christ and his word. I am not preaching protestanism to you but I do warn you about the catholic church. This church is satanic and full of idolatry and perversion and vain traditions that contradict the word of God. Try to find a church that will baptize you correctly. In the name of JEsus Christ for the remission of your sins and ask the Lord to fill you with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in another tongue as in the day of pentecost (Acts 2:4,Acts 1:8, Act 2:38). God is pouring out his Spirit still and you need the Holy spirit to help you discern what is true and what is a lie. I will keep you in my prayers. Put not your trust in no organization but Christ and him only!
@@CalledUntoHoliness Any justification for, "the Catholic Church is satanic and full of idolatry and perversions and vain traditions that contradict the Word of God"? Most Baptists baptize correctly: "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". What they believe it does ("just a symbol") does not take away from the action itself. Je parle français, c'est mon deuxième langue. Notice that when "speaking in tongues" is named in Acts on the day of Pentecost, the result was that others could spontaneously understand the Apostles: "and each heard his own language." Your verses conveniently skip this detail. This gift of the Spirit was not given to many (see the writings of Paul) and is exceedingly rare nowadays, if not non-existent. In order to count, a "tongue" must be an understandable human language. You are right in that the Spirit is still being poured out today -- through the Sacraments, especially Confirmation, by which Catholics are sealed with Him. With prayer and the constant aid of the Holy Spirit, I joined the original Church that Christ founded.
Yes, isn't it horrible? But every institution today is peecee to the hilt. Mark my word, even new allegedly traditionalist Methodist groupings will be shot through with this evil.
@@scronx No, more and more people understand that the church has always been wrong and the bible is garbage lies. "Traditionalism" IS the evil inherent in false phony religion and the lying bible.
When we are picking and choosing which SIN is " ok" , we are no longer following God' law. If a pastor stood up and said I am a murderer, I am going to continue murdering, would people allow THIS.. no difference in sin . Sin is sin. Period
Great example Shelly. Imagine a Pastor saying "I'm going to continue drinking heavily and beating my wife because I was born that way. This is how God made me. I'm living out MY truth".
True. I assume you've stopped eating shellfish and mixing fabrics? Actually, Shelly, why am I listening to you? Women aren't to have a place of teaching over men, according to the Bible, so why are you commenting on this?
Yes - bc love between two ppl who just happen to be of the same sex is most certainly akin to murder. (-_-) Seriously, get a life. Or perhaps an update on Christ bc you clearly have nothing in common with him.
These "independent" minded churches need to take it step further and disengage themselves from any hierarchal structure which would have oversight into their function - such as a General Conference or general assembly. This is what has caused so much grief within the church in general. General conferences are the product of mankind, and are therefore inherently flawed. You will not find the existence of a general conference in the early church (the first century church) . Each church was its own independent entity, guided by elders (and deacons) and following the simple order of worship enjoyed and practiced by the equally simple label of "Christians". It may be the optimal time to entertain such a thing - putting general assemblies behind them and be done with them - for they have run their course and have proven to be utterly divisive.
I believe that the United Methodist Church name came as a tip of the hat to both denominations, each getting a part of their name included. The bigger story is that the two dominations decided that they were compatible enough in doctrine that the merger would work well. Things went south after the merger and probably not because of it. I could be wrong...
The Methodist Church in the US split over the issue of slavery. So the pro-slavery side became the Southern Methodists. Years later they all decided to reunite so it became United Methodists. The pro-slavery Southern Methodists were more Calvinist leaning or sympathetic to Calvinist "theology".
@@Baltic_Hammer6162 The MEC and the MEC South reunited to form the Methodist Church (the term "episcopal" was dropped), and after uniting with Evangelical United Brethren, it became the United Methodist Church.
I look forward to the creation of the Global Methodist Church as a new group of confessing Christians who support Biblical teaching and morality, and I say that as a former Methodist who is now happily Eastern Orthodox.
Dear Joseph Stine, True. Somethings should not be polarized, but there are some things that are legitimately polarized. Wisdom is knowing which aspects should and shouldn't be polarized. Be Well, DZ
Dear@@saul2paul540 , Thank You, for your response, Thank you for your verse. It is so true; "reverence of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom". Reverence of the Lord, is the foundation of the beginning of wisdom. Let's continue in growing our wisdom beyond the beginning into maturity. I like your previous comment. Sin in the church should be rather polarizing ! We should stand with God against anything that is contrary to His Standards. Those who stand with sin, stand against God and His standards. Be Well, DZ
The original Methodist Church of our Founding Father John Wesley is Biblical, Scriptural and Holiness, our denomination is not responsible for what you experienced in a so-called Methodist Church.
@@Hovsep231 I experienced the same thing as David H. The youth were entertained not discipled and no clear moral standards were taught. Female clergy and other practices that clearly run afoul of scripture were embraced. The only thing that surprises me about the UMC breakdown is that it took this long. Committed believers should have left ago.
This is sad. I have a better understanding of who’s who and what’s what, thanks to these videos. Still … No matter how you look at it, we’re in the final hours of the last days and this is just (a form/part of) the 2 Thessalonians 2: 3 apostasy. Mankind gets a week here on the planet beginning with Adam; By the time The LORD Jesus began His ministry, we were indeed in the last days. 2Peter 3:8 All these things MUST come to pass… and THEN the end shall come. Don’t be deceived. And don’t be distracted, either. Major on Christ Jesus - His words. Watch (for His Appearing), and pray that you be counted worthy by HIS cleansing blood to escape all these perilous times that SHALL come to pass, just as He said. Maranatha! 🙏🏽☁️🙌🏽❤🎺
I just joined a GMC church after years in a non-denom charismatic church. There is something of a pall in the air when the UMC is discussed or the term “UMC” is used (often as habit).
This is a good presentation and mostly accurate, however the UMC did not always embrace women clergy. When I entered ministry 44 years ago there was only 1 female clergy in the Conference. Groups like Nazarene, Church of God, 4 Square were way ahead of the UMC in this area. Thanks for the helpful presentation, I plan to share it with others.
Southern Baptists began ordaining women then backed off as the denomination became more conservative and now there are indications it's swinging left again with recent debates on gay issues and women demanding openess in handling bad behavior of clergy. This too is part of the pandemics influence. Look at the religious turmoil in the church during the plague outbreaks in Europe.
I do not understand how people can decide to ignore God's word in the Bible (ex. Deut. 23:17,18), ( Rom. 1:24-32), (1Corr. 6:9), (Lev. 20:13), (1Kings 14:24).
Video request: Where does this leave the Free Methodist Church and the Wesleyan Methodist Church in relation to this schism, and are those two denominations having the same internal fight?
@@miss_naomi7377 Correct. The Free Methodists, Wesleyan Church, and the Nazarenes preceded the GMC in splitting from the establishment Methodist Church of their time. The Wesleyan Church left over being anti-slavery; the other two groups felt the Methodist Church wasn't doing enough ministry to the poor and needy.
They just lost any moral ground to consider any of the sins mentioned in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. So...for the liberals; drunkenness, fornication, greed, gossip, etc are no longer sins.
The problem with "Denominations" is they think the Bible is a bag of Trail Mix... Pick out the pieces you like and ignore those you don't... Many pastors in churches today are nothing more than motivational speakers preaching the "Prosperity Gospel." They tickle our ears and make us feel good about ourselves and that our sins have no eternal consequences. The teaching of these churches has little relevance to what is stated in the Bible. If a church isn't teaching Biblically, then it is nothing more than a motivational rally. I grew up in the UMC and there was was very little taught about salvation. I left 15 years ago and found a Bible Teaching Church (Freewill Baptist.) I am sorry to say that the Methodist Church along with many other Denominations, is simply giving their followers what they want to hear and not what they need - A relationship with Jesus Christ.
The Methodist Church is like the Baptist, Presbyterian, Episcopal, United Pentecostal, and Jehovah's Witnesses in very important ways. Some of the ways are: nowhere in God's word do we read about the Methodist Church. Jesus promised to build his group, congregation, or assembly. (Matthew 16:18) All man-made traditions and religions are opposed to the New Testament plan, and they are eternally wrong. (Matthew 15:1-14) Paul never said the Methodist churches, or Baptist churches, or Lutheran churches "greet you." He said "the congregations of Christ greet you." (Romans 16:16) The word of God is perfectly true and stands as our rule of faith and practice! (John 12:48-50) Leave man-made religion and take your stand with God.
That argument isn' particularly practical. At best, the only way to achieve such a thing is to firmly decide to just never call any other people without proper doctrine Christians or anything such as that. Otherwise there has to be some other distinguishing factor between true followers or Christ and heretics developed somehow, which has been denominations. If not that, we need some other way, I suppose just calling people heretics could work and would even be accurate, but I suspect it wouldn't be a good tool for reconcilation between groups.
@Mike Richards you sound like a member of the iglesia ni cristo. maybe not, but your belief that there is only one true church of christ is similar. if your church is the only true church of christ, it follows that the vast majority of humankind wiil end up in hell. how could you believe that god wills to save all people from hell if this is the case? it would have been better if god had not created any human being than have only a small portion of people to join him in heaven for all eternity, leaving the rest of humankind to eternal damnation. this kind of god is highly questionable and does not deserve to be worshipped and loved.
@@amadoramos5040 when you have the time to read the word of God, please, yes please read (Matthew 7:13-14 and Matthew 7:21-29). Those are Jesus' words. He specifically says most people will take the broad road. Few will take the narrow road. Why? Because most people choose to "choose to do it their way," regardless of what God's word says. Human traditions and opinions are more important to the masses of people. Jesus says a person must choose him over the closest family members we have on earth. (Matthew 10-34-39; Luke 14:26)
A very nice presentation. It looks like "don't ask - don't tell" for the Global Methodist denomination. This does not resonate with folks under 35. What happens when the old ones die off? 🤔
I never knew about the Book of Discipline when I was in the UMC. I never believed, even then, that traditions of men should be added to scripture, and alot of Methodists I know believe the same way.
People are going to create their own personal churches using YT...... it’s easy: find a preacher you like and watch his/her sermons.... watch all the christian praise music videos you like.... and use the comment sections like this to fellowship with like minded christians..... and of course read the Bible slowly for yourself..... enjoy your own personal church!
The north-south merger between the Methodist Episcopal Church, Methodist Episcopal Church South and also the Methodist Protestant Church happened in 1939 to form the Methodist Church. The 1968 merger was between the Methodist Church and the Evangelical United Brethren Church.
@@dmacc1206 Thank you for this information. I totally forgot about the UBC merger. When I was a child my grandmother would tell me stories of her childhood Sunday School class (in the 1920s) having little chairs that said Methodist Episcopal South. I love church history!
Anybody who has appropriated grace should never confess and ask for forgiveness. Asking for something that has already been given to you shows that you did not believe that it was in the first place. Thus, you have not appropriated grace through faith, and without it, you are lost.
To clarify, the Book of Discipline specifies that it is the _practice_ of homosexuality that is incompatible with Christian teaching, not the person. This is much like the differentiation between the act of theft as opposed to the thief themselves. No person is "incompatible" with Christian teaching. The discipline clearly states that "All persons are individuals of sacred worth, created in the image of God."
It's so odd to me when churches argue for "biblical views" on marriage, and then say they want one-man-one-woman. That isn't biblical at all. None of the fathers of the faith lived that way. Marriage in the Bible was one man, multiple wives, and multiple concubines. No one in the Bible ever argued against that. The only restriction was for Church leadership later on, and that was in one verse, written to one local congregation. So, polygamy was just fine. Anyone still want that? I don't for myself. But it's biblical.
I went to a Methodist Church for 5 years before I realized the pastor was not a real Christian - he was not born again. He was not indwelled with the Holy Spirit. It’s very very sad and tragic that most mainline Protestant denominations do not teach how to be born again correctly. Most of them teach that salvation happens as an infant is baptized and then you learn some religious concepts and get “confirmed.” This leaves the congregants thinking they are saved when they are not. “But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.” Mathew 7:14
If they except the Holy Spirit stop practicing sin ask for give forgiveness like all Christian the Father Son Hoiy Spirit yes than fat people soldiers or astronauts can be Christian
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You know, I was just sitting here in my office thinking, "I really hope he does a video on the new Methodist denomination." You didn't disappoint!
This is the #1 TH-cam channel for theological politics. Thank you, and keep doing great work.
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As a Baptist,I love to see our Methodist brothers and sisters preserving biblical standards. I welcome the GMC. May the Lord bless this new denomination.
Except the Methodists that “preserve Biblical standards” just surrendered their traditional denomination that is in possession of beautiful historic churches, seminaries and other resources to liberals … they ran away in the face of a fight.
Why Baptist and not Methodist?
Methodists take sacraments and covenants more serious and spiritual tools of God, as instruments of actual spiritual power, while Baptists just go "everything's a symbol but we take the bible seriously!"
Except the things that are serious spiritual presences of sacraments and covenants rituals.
When the church reflects the culture, it is no longer the church. It is just the local recreational center.
A denomination is just a collection of like-minded people, but this isn't limited to similar theology. Cultural practices feature prominently in denominational distinctives.. What kind of songs are sung? What type of musical instruments are allowed (if any)? What clothing is allowed (or banned)? Grooming styles? Hair length, make up, beards? How are violators punished (if at all)? These shared opinions about culture are unrelated to salvation. They are simply human preferences. Which is fine, as we all have them. And birds of a feather, flock together.
Stick to what Scripture says.
@@withamarshview1436 stick to Scripture.
@@EE-qn4ks Please tell me what scriptures you think my comment violated.
Martha Canady.... Well said and Well put . ✝️
Thank you for a clear and concise explanation of the split developing within the Methodist Church. An excellent video, and very informative.
Matthew 7:23
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Thank you very much for this timely, concise summation of the UNC"s situation as we emerge from the Covid experience. The New Year 2022 should result in a final decision and allow all Methodists to follow their conscience and tithe accordingly without fear of loss of church property in the future under the "trust" clause. It is past time to go our separate ways.
I may be coming back to the Methodist Church. Hope they return to the traditional hymn books and the tried and true music of the original church. I want to feel like I had just been to church and not a rock concert.
I left the Methodist church 30 yrs ago. They continue to affirm my decision
I left 47 years ago.
I left 15 years ago about the time I fully grasped what “ covert narcissism “ is and realized I had been wallowing in it all my UMC life up to that point. It was also about that time I realized that the UMC will not only not get better but worse. Bowen theory says that the more stress a family or group feels ( like the stress of declining revenue and membership in the UMC) the more a group becomes who they really are at their core. I expected the UMC to become more autocratic and more toxic and they have lived up to that the past 15 years and it will only get worse.
It was that natural result of apostates leaving the Church that Christ founded. Your heart lead you to the right OUT door.
Hope you became Catholic..
@@bill7101 Why?
This general statement on our situation was very well done.
GOOD for you and everyone else who had the courage to get up and leave ! I, and my family of five, took our walk on the liberal Episcopal Church USA in 1988 because we did not want our adolescent children raised in the presence of the "new moral standards" which had been embraced. Thank heavens for four Orthodox Churches in our area, and we ended up in a parish of the Orthodox Church of America. I felt as if someone had thrown me a life preserver. My only regret is that I did not "take the walk" a lot sooner. Congratulations and Godspeed to all the good people in the Global Methodist Church. May God grant you those things necessary for your life and your salvation.
These are "new" moral standards. Do you not believe what Jesus said ---Love thy neighbor as thyself.
Furthemore , read Galatins.
I followed their debate on the matter loosely until COVID hit. I was wondering what happened with it. Thanks for the video!
As a former Methodist looking on, it looks like the UMC is a church in name only now. Glad I left it after I left home. Hey when did the hand decide it knows better than the head anyway?
That’s right. It’s really become just an extension of the democratic national party progressive movement.
The liberals have been trying for many years, like decades, to remove the explicit statement against homosexuality. Like many denominations its gotten riddled with rot and weakened to the point of a hollow shell.
Do not paint all UMC churches with the same brush as there are still a few that believe and preach traditional Wesleyan. It is all dependent upon individual pastors whether a congregation is solid or spiritually incoherent.
The two types can be 5 miles away in the city. So deciding on a UMC church is a roll of the dice. Its best to split up, let the liberals cluster under one umbrella and the conservative traditional Wesleyans be under their own distinct label. I will be under the conservative & traditional so as not to be confused with the liberal non-biblical "church".
@@jetpilot3714 It looks a whole lot like Black Liberation Theology, a Marxist organization. Obama has been a member for over 20 years. I’ll stick with the new Global Methodist Church. Looks awesome!
@@katherinepll tell me more about the Global Methodist Church. :)
@@katherinepll You have no authority to speak on our heritage or theology if you are not a Black person involved in this tradition or church so hush and stop spreading lies. You all will label any and everybody you hate or disagree with as “marxist”. You probably couldn’t write a three sentence summation of marxism anyway without google. Stop.
Religious people seem to ignore that God backs/honors His Word and not the bylaws of a religious organization, no matter the size. Just ask Noah if it mattered what the majority thought about a potential flood.
Agreed! You might wanna go back to 1800s and emphasize Ephisians 6:5
Great video. I found it on Facebook. Wish I could share it with my friends. Okay I found the share button.
Great Overview! Thank you for your thoughts and insight!
These are always done well. They never seem heavy-handed as is often the case in this sort of reporting.
Overwhelmingly, it was Methodists in countries outside of the US that pushed for a more conservative interpretation of things- they had more representatives. Thus the split.
My congregation's denomination is now considering providing ministers for the less theologically conservative churches if they want them (some of our ministers prefer the traditional services anyway, so it works out for those ministers). Grace and peace to all.
I believe many Methodists in the US are unhappy as well with the changes in church policy. As someone who once attended the UMC this saddens me to see people who are lifelong members feeling abandoned as so many denominations go " progressive".
Well done and very informative. Thank you.
Reading God's Word and setting up a church is located in Gen. Lev. Tom. 1st & 2nd Timothy.
It is so weird to me that the churches that keep the existing practices have to leave and create a new denomination. It is more logical to say that those that want new/progressive ideology should form the new denomination. This in particular has caused real issues for older members that hold their denomination name so closely. A good example of why to keep Jesus and his examples/teaching as #1.
Thank you for that unbiased, straightforward presentation of the issue. I appreciate that rather than opinion, you relied on documented statements from both sides of the aisle.
One correction. The split is not primarily over homosexuality. That is the presenting issue, but more like a symptom. What is really deep underneath of the division is the radically different views of the inspiration and authority of Scripture. That is where the real issue is, but people, find homosexuality more exciting to talk about than theological issues like the inspiration and authority of the Bible.
I don't think that's an accurate representation of the disagreement. A different interpretation of scripture does not mean there is a difference in beliefs about the inspiration or authority of scripture.
@@zacharydunn6577 Yes is because otherwise what is someone going to do with the plain reading of the text?
Dear@@zacharydunn6577,
"different interpretation of Scripture does not mean there is a difference in beliefs about the inspiration or authority of Scripture."
Not necessarily, however the two concepts (interpretation and inspiration or authority of Scripture) are strongly related ! There are many examples of personal interpretations that have a derogatory effect on the inspiration or authority of Scripture.
Any time a personal interpretation, violates sound hermeneutical and exegetical principles to manipulate the understanding of Scripture, to conform to a presupposed ideological belief, Contrary to the norms of the Christian worldview, harm is done to the concept of θεόπνευστος (God-breathed Scripture) and the authority of God's Word.
Funny how people think it is ok to have a variety of different personal interpretations, as if everyone in entitled to their own personal interpretation of Scripture.
One of the very basic tenets of Christianity is to understand what God is trying to communicate in Scripture, not eisegetically inject our own perspectives into the interpretation process. It doesn't matter what we think Scripture is saying; what matters is what God is communication in Scripture. He is the author, so it is His perspective.
That is why we teach hermeneutics and exegetical principles in our Sunday School classes, so people can learn the process of objective interpretation, to prevent our own personal interpretations of Scripture, that "tickle" our own ears, or manipulate Scripture to fit our ideas and beliefs.
"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal
of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God,
what is good and acceptable and perfect." (Rom. 12:2)
It is obvious that God does not conform to the moral and ethical norms of our culture and society, instead the culture should conform to His standards. Humans are made in His image. It is completely wrong to recreate God in our image, to fit our cultural and moral standards.
Be Well,
DZ
@@Silverheart1956 you talk as if there is one true interpretation of scripture, but which of the hundreds of different interpretations is it? We wouldn't have the vast number of different groups of a Christians if it were so simple to know what the "true" interpretation was. Is it the Catholics that have it right? The United Methodists? The Episcopalians? The Southern Baptists? Two Christians can fully agree about the authority and inspiration of scripture and still disagree about how to interpret language that is at least two thousand years old and has been translated through multiple languages.
Dear@@zacharydunn6577,
Great Question ! (by the way great name: Zachary)
There was once a group of people admiring and commenting on a work of abstract art in a museum. One says "I think it is a meadow of wild flowers", another said "I think it is a stand of trees, a forest", Another said "oh, I think it is a group of cattails by a pond", and others told what they thought is was. Finally someone in the back spoke up and said, "Nope, you are all wrong ? The group wondered who is this rude person who is telling everyone that are wrong ? Who is he to judge our interpretations of the painting ? Some shouted, "Ok just tell us what you think it is". He spoke up and said "I know what it actually is, it is a group of people standing and watching balloons in the sky." Someone immediately remarked, "what makes you think you are the only one who is right ? The man remarked, "because, ... I am the artist who painted it."
Who knows the correct interpretation of Scripture ? God does, because He is the one who wrote it.
"All Scripture is 'θεόπνευστος' (God-breathed)" (2 Tim. 3:16)
"but which of the hundreds of different interpretations is it? " Easy question ! It is God's interpretation, that is the true interpretation.
The difficult issue is, how do we ascertain God's understanding and meaning of Scripture ? Obviously that is a little harder.
Steps:
1. Attitude - Understand and accept you must desire to be intellectually honest and open in understanding what God's meaning for Scripture is and avoid injecting your own suppositions and presuppositions into the process. This is very difficult. Defending our own traditions, assumptions and bias, significantly hinders an honest, objective approach.
2. You must be a genuine Christian. It is difficult for the natural man to understand and discern Spiritual matters because they are Spiritually discerned. (1 Cor. 2:14)
3. Pray for the Holy Spirit to guide your research and help you find God's understanding and meaning.
4. Follow sound hermeneutical and exegetical principles to maintain objectivity. Sadly, many Christians never take a course in hermeneutics and exegetical principles. That is one subject I teach in Sunday School (They are usually surprised when they discover I give tests). Funny how many people assume they need no training to learn how to interpret Scripture (but they need training in so many lesser things). Please tell me, would I be correct in assuming you have never had a course training you in hermeneutics and exegesis ?
5. Be thorough. Adequate research is really hard work, the more you dig in, the more complete your research will be. Many people simply do not conduct enough research and end up with a superficial, incomplete understanding.
6. Understand that we may not be able to understand and interpret every thing. Some things in history has been lost to time.
However, sometimes we are able to rediscover some lost meanings through research. Examples :
A. We have recently found the lost city of Ai (the one Joshua conquered) through the discipline of, archaeology. Many people questioned the historicity of Joshua's conquest because what we thought was Ai, didn't fit the time era. We had the wrong ruins, ... looking in the wrong place..
B. Koine Greek (the type of Greek the NT was written in) is different from classical Greek and some things in the NT didn't make sense because we where interpreting text based on the grammatical rules of classical Greek. Through grammatical studies we know much more about Koine Greek Grammar than we did 400 yrs. ago. For example the discovery of "Granville Sharp's Rule" has enlightened our understanding of a few passages (Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1).
7. Some things are more significant that other issues. If we use objectivity in our interpretation of Scripture, there should be very little disagreement in the "Primary Doctrines". These are the very significant, foundational teachings that separate Christianity from other religions.
Interpretation of "Secondary Doctrines" are a little more difficult because there is more ambiguity in Scripture. These are more difficult to interpret because the Scriptures gives less information. "Secondary Doctrine" are what separates the different denominations within Christianity. So even though we may differ on these issues, we are united in the "Primaries".
Of course, then there are the "Tertiary Doctrines". There can be lots of disagreement on these because of a lack of information to interpret by. These differences in understanding may exist within a local Church.
Sorry I rambled, but a great question deserves a fairly adequate response. I hope this helps a little bit.
Be Well,
DZ
The Evangelical Methodists saw the writing on the wall and came out in 1953, before it was cool.
God bless them for their courage and faithfulness in taking a biblical stand.
Chelovyek
I question the membership figures cited by the UMC. Purges of membership rolls seem few and far between. Where I live there are maybe 5-6 strong Methodist churches spread over a wide area. The remaining few seem to be dwindling. Interestingly, two very different types of churches here are showing dramatic growth: non-denominational Protestant congregations and Eastern Orthodox churches.
True of many areas. As a member now of a more traditional Weslyan influenced church, Free Will Baptist, we are losing members to the mega- churches and more historically orthodox churches.
The churches in Africa need to be missionaries to US here in America, to convert us to Christianity. We are now a pagan mission field.
Very much so
Yep. Most mainline denominations refuse to admit it but it is true!
AMEN
Keith, you really believe that? I’d guess you have not examined the beliefs and practices of the African church. Please, for your sake and the sake of those you impact, educate yourself on the topic instead of spewing easy bromides.
@@Jack-eo5fn You might be referring to the African Charismatic Church which I agree like charasmatic churches everywhere, can have some issues. But, J M, the UMC churches in Africa are operating by God's inspired, inerrant, infallable word and some of the UMC churches in America that are compromising into a secular culture could use some serious pointers from those people.
I am Bi, raised in the UMC. We has a few open gay and lesbians in my congregation. When I was ready to come out, I talked with them about gay marriage and the church. My understanding till this day is that God loves us no matter how we love. But gay marriage is against his will and a sin. Asking a church to sanctify a sin, would be the same as asking the reverend to preach openly for turning our backs on God and embarrassing Satan. God will love me no matter what, and I will try to be worthy of that love. But I will never ask a church to violate its sacred mission, no matter how much I was in love with someone of the same sex. I got married once civilly and can do it again if needed.
And what exactly makes gay marriage a sin in a way that hetersexual marriage isn't?
@Matzu-Music For me and my beliefs, it's a matter of faith. I don't give a f#$% if anyone thinks I'm a hypocrite. How I express my faith and what I believe is between me and God. In the UMC, we don't take anyone else's belief system. We are encouraged to find our own by questioning and exploring the Bible. I don't owe you or anyone else an explanation of my beliefs. But let me say this, when I was looking for acceptance in the LGBT+ community, they turned their back on me just because I wasn't lesbian enough. My church accepted who I was and never asked or pressured me to become straight. In my life, it was the church that was more open minded then the LGBT+ community.
Read Romans. Its that simple but if you don't follow scripture you could read the entire Bible its not going to make any difference anyway. Satan will welcome you that guaranteed.
@westrotter7847 hate is also a sin, so if I'm going to be in that line so will you.
To God sin is sin. We are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God! Jesus died on the cross in payment for our sins, if you accept him as you Savior. The Bible clearly states homosexuality is a sin, but so isn't lying, cheating, swearing, etc. the list could go on forever. Jesus said all the commandments can be summarized into two. First love God with all your heart mind and soul. Second, love your neighbor! That about sums it up. I respect her position and agree that the church shouldn't in essence condone sin.
I just walked away from the UMC. I will not support evil. I grew up in the UMC it breaks my heart that the church has left the teaching of God's word. The church has followed the ways of the world. If the world says its ok then so be it. SORRY not happening in my home. I will find a church that follows God's teaching. WOW is all I can say! Just being honest!!!
Might I suggest the Catholic Church? We've got 2000 years of institution and tradition to protect us against modernism, not to mention the guidance of the Holy Spirit as promised by Christ.
@Esther "Does not follow or worship the True Messiah," huh? That's one I haven't heard yet. Is the True Messiah someone other than Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages? God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made? Because that's who Catholics worship.
@@SquirrellyFries I am sorry to say that I am unable to get past the repeated Catholic tolerance of covering up for pedophile Priests who have scarred children and took no real action to completely stop the possibility of.further abuse on other children at a later date. Simply moving around Priests to different areas and not prohibiting their access to children alone, showed no respect for innocent young children. The volume of victims that have come out is staggering. Even Nun's have come out revealing horrible torture practices along with rape by Priests that occurred over many years in Convents. Molestation by Priests on young children is the highest degree of possible betrayal. Not only are their lives shattered, but they are often left with no religion or faith to call upon as they grow older.
Had the Pope and officials addressed this abuse immediately and with broad procedures to ensure
abuse was addressed with prompt removal of offenders instead of simply relocating them to different places to reoffend, one could have worked to try to find resolution of this violating sin knowing children were safe from further abuse and counseling and legal avenues assured if around children. Satanic rituals involving children and child trafficking involvement ínvolving the Vatican and the Pope will be revealed
in the near future. I feel for Catholic believers but do not know how the church will survive after proof is confirmed and made public without some monumental change in church procedures. I am sorry parishioners have also been so betrayed by Vatican City.
I can direct you to information and resources about the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod if you'd like.
The UMC does not have over 12 million. They may have that many on their unpurged rolls, but their membership is much lower!
I believe he ment worldwide.
It does worldwide. However, American congregations by a narrow majority support acceptance of LGTBQ+ as pastors, and support nontraditional marriage. At the international conference it was United Methodist representatives from African nations who constituted a sufficient number to deny the progressives a win on the issue. If it were up to American UMCs only, these issues would already have been resolved in favor of LGTBQ+ membership in the clergy and nontraditional marriages. This is a very concise accurate summation of the situation as we all emerge from the Covid experience.
Absolutely. I posted a similar observation.
@@sarisigmund2115 In any case, membership figures in the US are greatly exaggerated. I would question worldwide figures as well until they are corroborated.
17 years ago when I was a Methodist a Methodist pastor in my church told me there is nothing in scripture against homosexuality and that it was natural. I knew then I did not belong in that Methodist church. It was obvious I knew more about scripture than that minister and more about natural selection as well.
Ray Vick you were absolutely correct when you said "I knew more about scripture than that minister.." you were correct. Don't change
Ray Vick, actually your pastor was correct. For starters, see Ezekiel 16:49 - the sin of Sodom was arrogance, gluttony and greed. The men of Sodom wanted to protect their possessions against traveling strangers so they locked the city gates. When they heard that 2 angels were already inside the gates, they went to Lott’s house and demanded he bring them out so they could rape them. This was common punishment against invading armies. The men were raped and humiliated. Ezekiel tells you what the real sins were. “The people of Sodom were greedy, gluttonous, and arrogant. “ Sounds like most Americans today.
@@Jack-eo5fn There are other verses in scripture that deal with the subject. Try Romans, Leviticus, 1 Timothy.....
@@LC-ok5nw, of course. Everyone knows the verses. Don’t need to know what Paul said on the subject; tell me what Jesus said about it. Crickets.
@mineben256, actually Paul was a self proclaimed Apostle after his dream, but his authority was always the subject of disagreement among authentic apostles. You don’t get to have a dream about things you used to do and then make yourself king. If Jesus actually appeared to Paul in the sky, he would have instructed or called him to mission. But he did neither. As for Jesus utterances on any issue, it was 40 to 70 years after he died before any of the 4 gospels were written, which means we don’t know what he actually did or said about anything. Oral traditions are never considered to be reliable.
Thank you for these great videos. Could you please do what Ordination looks like in these differing denominations? Thank you!
If Wesley was still in his grave, he would be rolling in it.
He is still in his grave. Just like when Jesus called to Lazarus and he came out of the tomb (not down from the sky), Wesley is asleep in the grave waiting for Jesus to call him out.
@@whitebeardInn Wesley was born of God. "God is a Spirit." (John 4:24) "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6) "Because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and THE SPIRIT SHALL RETURN UNTO GOD who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:5, 7) This cannot be referring to the Holy Spirit, "for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." (John 7:39) Lazarus' death was BEFORE Jesus' Resurrection: That is why he was still in his body. Bless you!
@@whitebeardInn sorry my friend, Wesley is not in the grave. Just as when Jesus told the thief on the cross...”Today you will be with me in Paradise”. When Jesus died on the cross that day, He broke the curse of sin and death. He went down to hell and set the captives free. Those who served and worshipped Him all the way from Adam. All those who died and who lived for God. Including Wesley.
@@emmanintz6448 I can understand the confusion. Although 1 Thess. 6:16 quotes it as the resurrection of the dead will happen at Christ return...it also states that John saw the Matrys and the 24 elders in heaven already before Christ 2nd coming. I am still studying to find truth.
@@hots4jc Matt. 12:40: “for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”
On the day Jesus died, he did not go to paradise, he went to the grave as proved by Matthew. In the original Greek, there was no punctuation. Commas, periods, etc, were added many, many years later. The sentence, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise” could just as easily have been, “I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise”. Just like we say, “Let me tell you right now, you better…”, Jesus was using “today” for emphasis like we would use “right now” for emphasis.
The Bible tells us multiple times that we sleep in the grave between physical death and the resurrection. I’m not SDA or JW, I’m just a Christian that tries to read the Bible in context and take its meaning as straight forward as I can. Don’t allow your learned biases (many we were taught from childhood) to change what the Bible really says into something people want it to say.
For God is not the author of confusion...1 Cor 14:33. God did not start these groups... May those who are seeking to serve Christ in Spirit and Truth be delivered from these false churches...
Agreed! They should join the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that Jesus started and has had an unbroken line of leadership led by the Holy Spirit from St. Peter to Pope Francis.
@@PianoForte9096 beg you pardon? The catholic church has nothing to do with God. It's full of abominations. Everybody who reads the Bible and has the holy Spirit can see that. Don't be fooled. Read the scriptures,repent of your sins and turn to Jesus and be baptized by immersion in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and be filled with the Holy spirit(Acts 2:37-38)/John 3:5-7) Unless you are born again of the water and the Spirit you won't see nor enter the kingdom of God.
@@CalledUntoHoliness I was born into Protestantism and spent my teenage years trying to find the truth in every Protestant denomination, including non-denominationalism. I read through the entire Bible, was "re-baptized" by immersion by a Baptist missionary (though I had been baptized as an infant), went on mission trips, and was studying collegiate-level theology daily. Then, I found the history behind the Catholic Church and, one by one, found that their beliefs totally align with Scripture and Apostolic Tradition.
Baptism by sprinkling dates to the Apostolic Tradition in the 1st century (see the Didache), and to be "born again of water and Spirit" is to be baptized. Baptism is not "in the name of Jesus Christ" alone, but "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit," as Jesus directs in Matthew 28. To be Confirmed, as I was this Easter Vigil, is to be sealed with the Holy Spirit, just as the Apostles realized in Acts 8:14-17.
I do repent of my sins to Jesus -- both privately and in front of a priest, who has been vested by Christ to forgive sins as a successor of the Apostles (John 20:19-23). Do you?
@@PianoForte9096 All I can say is keep reading the scriptures daily, fast and pray and repent and ask the Lord Jesus to lead you in all truth. It's not about being born in protestanism. You got to be born again. The baptist church is false also, they baptize wrong and do not believing in the infilling of the holy Spirit
. The truth is not protestanism, the truth is Jesus Christ and his word. I am not preaching protestanism to you but I do warn you about the catholic church. This church is satanic and full of idolatry and perversion and vain traditions that contradict the word of God. Try to find a church that will baptize you correctly. In the name of JEsus Christ for the remission of your sins and ask the Lord to fill you with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in another tongue as in the day of pentecost (Acts 2:4,Acts 1:8, Act 2:38). God is pouring out his Spirit still and you need the Holy spirit to help you discern what is true and what is a lie. I will keep you in my prayers. Put not your trust in no organization but Christ and him only!
@@CalledUntoHoliness Any justification for, "the Catholic Church is satanic and full of idolatry and perversions and vain traditions that contradict the Word of God"?
Most Baptists baptize correctly: "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". What they believe it does ("just a symbol") does not take away from the action itself.
Je parle français, c'est mon deuxième langue. Notice that when "speaking in tongues" is named in Acts on the day of Pentecost, the result was that others could spontaneously understand the Apostles: "and each heard his own language." Your verses conveniently skip this detail. This gift of the Spirit was not given to many (see the writings of Paul) and is exceedingly rare nowadays, if not non-existent. In order to count, a "tongue" must be an understandable human language.
You are right in that the Spirit is still being poured out today -- through the Sacraments, especially Confirmation, by which Catholics are sealed with Him. With prayer and the constant aid of the Holy Spirit, I joined the original Church that Christ founded.
It may become necessary to form home or rental space churches and where you keep the Sabbath, too! This might be a serious wake up call...
Challenge question: How many denominations will we have in heaven regardless of affiliation and doctrine?
I surely would rethink using "global" in this day and age.
Yes, isn't it horrible? But every institution today is peecee to the hilt. Mark my word, even new allegedly traditionalist Methodist groupings will be shot through with this evil.
I think it fits them. Their commitment to diversity and hesitation to call homosexuality "incompatible" is all but a globalist dog whistle
@@scronx
Traditionalism IS evil!
@@rstevewarmorycom That's totally wacky.
@@scronx
No, more and more people understand that the church has always been wrong and the bible is garbage lies. "Traditionalism" IS the evil inherent in false phony religion and the lying bible.
When we are picking and choosing which SIN is " ok" , we are no longer following God' law. If a pastor stood up and said I am a murderer, I am going to continue murdering, would people allow THIS.. no difference in sin . Sin is sin. Period
Great example Shelly. Imagine a Pastor saying "I'm going to continue drinking heavily and beating my wife because I was born that way. This is how God made me. I'm living out MY truth".
And not only would he stand up and say I am a murderer but he would also say that murdering is normal.
So where do we go if the UMC is going to be this way?
True. I assume you've stopped eating shellfish and mixing fabrics?
Actually, Shelly, why am I listening to you? Women aren't to have a place of teaching over men, according to the Bible, so why are you commenting on this?
Yes - bc love between two ppl who just happen to be of the same sex is most certainly akin to murder. (-_-)
Seriously, get a life. Or perhaps an update on Christ bc you clearly have nothing in common with him.
Love, joy, peace, patience, faithfulness, goodness, kindness, gentleness and self control are the fruits of the spirit. Any human can have these!
Does anyone know the update on this? They should have had the GC by now... unless it's been delayed again!
What was wrong with the Wesleyan Covenant Association becoming the Wesleyan Covenant Church?
These "independent" minded churches need to take it step further and disengage themselves from any hierarchal structure which would have oversight into their function - such as a General Conference or general assembly. This is what has caused so much grief within the church in general. General conferences are the product of mankind, and are therefore inherently flawed. You will not find the existence of a general conference in the early church (the first century church) . Each church was its own independent entity, guided by elders (and deacons) and following the simple order of worship enjoyed and practiced by the equally simple label of "Christians". It may be the optimal time to entertain such a thing - putting general assemblies behind them and be done with them - for they have run their course and have proven to be utterly divisive.
Doesn't the "united" just reflect the merger with the Evangelical United Brethren?
Were the EUB's even given a voice in the UMC?
I believe that the United Methodist Church name came as a tip of the hat to both denominations, each getting a part of their name included. The bigger story is that the two dominations decided that they were compatible enough in doctrine that the merger would work well. Things went south after the merger and probably not because of it. I could be wrong...
The Methodist Church in the US split over the issue of slavery. So the pro-slavery side became the Southern Methodists. Years later they all decided to reunite so it became United Methodists. The pro-slavery Southern Methodists were more Calvinist leaning or sympathetic to Calvinist "theology".
@@Baltic_Hammer6162 The MEC and the MEC South reunited to form the Methodist Church (the term "episcopal" was dropped), and after uniting with Evangelical United Brethren, it became the United Methodist Church.
@@souveniehollande979 Thanks for that detailed info.
I look forward to the creation of the Global Methodist Church as a new group of confessing Christians who support Biblical teaching and morality, and I say that as a former Methodist who is now happily Eastern Orthodox.
God Judgement will start from his house .
I agree. The word says that but the Methodist Church is not the house of God.
I joined the UMC 3 years ago..... best church I’ve ever been to!...... ❤️❤️❤️✌️✌️✌️👍👍👍
So we change the Word of God to fit our sinful passions. Wonder if God agrees?
How true! That is what all this is about.😔
So, can I preach the Holy Scriptures? Or zigzag around those holiness texts?
So sad to see.
There is no separation.
We are all One in Christ.
Everything in this world is getting polarized!....., either or
True... The idea of allowing sin to be a part of the church IS rather polarizing!
Dear Joseph Stine,
True. Somethings should not be polarized, but there are some things that are legitimately polarized. Wisdom is knowing which aspects should and shouldn't be polarized.
Be Well,
DZ
@@Silverheart1956 The reverence of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do His commandments...." Psalm 110:10.
Dear@@saul2paul540 ,
Thank You, for your response,
Thank you for your verse. It is so true; "reverence of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom". Reverence of the Lord, is the foundation of the beginning of wisdom. Let's continue in growing our wisdom beyond the beginning into maturity.
I like your previous comment. Sin in the church should be rather polarizing ! We should stand with God against anything that is contrary to His Standards. Those who stand with sin, stand against God and His standards.
Be Well,
DZ
I want to attend a church teaching the Bible and word of GOD. I don't want cultural events being the driving force. It's GOD, his words and the Bible.
Well it's literally impossible to read anything without your own cultural lens.
✅ interesting video
Was raised in the Methodist church; COMPLETELY REPROBATE, UNBIBLICAL, AND LOST.
The original Methodist Church of our Founding Father John Wesley is Biblical, Scriptural and Holiness, our denomination is not responsible for what you experienced in a so-called Methodist Church.
Nothing wrong with Methodism, it's the people in the Methodist Church who have gone astray
@@Hovsep231 I experienced the same thing as David H. The youth were entertained not discipled and no clear moral standards were taught. Female clergy and other practices that clearly run afoul of scripture were embraced. The only thing that surprises me about the UMC breakdown is that it took this long. Committed believers should have left ago.
Yep
This is sad. I have a better understanding of who’s who and what’s what, thanks to these videos. Still … No matter how you look at it, we’re in the final hours of the last days and this is just (a form/part of) the 2 Thessalonians 2: 3 apostasy. Mankind gets a week here on the planet beginning with Adam; By the time The LORD Jesus began His ministry, we were indeed in the last days. 2Peter 3:8 All these things MUST come to pass… and THEN the end shall come. Don’t be deceived. And don’t be distracted, either. Major on Christ Jesus - His words. Watch (for His Appearing), and pray that you be counted worthy by HIS cleansing blood to escape all these perilous times that SHALL come to pass, just as He said. Maranatha! 🙏🏽☁️🙌🏽❤🎺
I just joined a GMC church after years in a non-denom charismatic church. There is something of a pall in the air when the UMC is discussed or the term “UMC” is used (often as habit).
This is a good presentation and mostly accurate, however the UMC did not always embrace women clergy. When I entered ministry 44 years ago there was only 1 female clergy in the Conference. Groups like Nazarene, Church of God, 4 Square were way ahead of the UMC in this area.
Thanks for the helpful presentation, I plan to share it with others.
The A/G would be alongside the 4 Square et al
Southern Baptists began ordaining women then backed off as the denomination became more conservative and now there are indications it's swinging left again with recent debates on gay issues and women demanding openess in handling bad behavior of clergy. This too is part of the pandemics influence. Look at the religious turmoil in the church during the plague outbreaks in Europe.
I do not understand how people can decide to ignore God's word in the Bible (ex. Deut. 23:17,18), ( Rom. 1:24-32), (1Corr. 6:9), (Lev. 20:13), (1Kings 14:24).
I'm a United Methodist Church clergy spouse ..and walked away from it. I'm now in The Filipino Evangelical Methodist
Unfortunately, the area I'm in, there's no global methodist churches near me. The closest is 77 miles.
Same here. The majority of disaffiliating churches in our area went non-denom.
Video request: Where does this leave the Free Methodist Church and the Wesleyan Methodist Church in relation to this schism, and are those two denominations having the same internal fight?
@David Rynkowski, I think they were alway more conservative. This shouldn’t affect other denominations.
@@miss_naomi7377 Correct. The Free Methodists, Wesleyan Church, and the Nazarenes preceded the GMC in splitting from the establishment Methodist Church of their time. The Wesleyan Church left over being anti-slavery; the other two groups felt the Methodist Church wasn't doing enough ministry to the poor and needy.
Will this new denomination only have congregations in the US, or will it be a truly Global affair?
Actually I think more of their congregations will be outside of the US than in it (mainly in Africa)
@@kron5637 sounds about right.
Daughters of the Mystery Babylon fighting among one another trying to be holier than thou.
They just lost any moral ground to consider any of the sins mentioned in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.
So...for the liberals; drunkenness, fornication, greed, gossip, etc are no longer sins.
It’s 9 months and we still don’t have any Global MC churches around!
God loves lgbtq people. My family is Methodist and I’m trans.
The problem with "Denominations" is they think the Bible is a bag of Trail Mix... Pick out the pieces you like and ignore those you don't... Many pastors in churches today are nothing more than motivational speakers preaching the "Prosperity Gospel." They tickle our ears and make us feel good about ourselves and that our sins have no eternal consequences. The teaching of these churches has little relevance to what is stated in the Bible. If a church isn't teaching Biblically, then it is nothing more than a motivational rally. I grew up in the UMC and there was was very little taught about salvation. I left 15 years ago and found a Bible Teaching Church (Freewill Baptist.) I am sorry to say that the Methodist Church along with many other Denominations, is simply giving their followers what they want to hear and not what they need - A relationship with Jesus Christ.
Precisely
Beautiful Service
Now we have even more protestant denominations Which number in the thousands. But still stands the Catholic Church. Not either or just an Observation.
I've been watching your videos and hearing about this news but I didn't realize it happened 9 months ago oops
The Methodist Church is like the Baptist, Presbyterian, Episcopal, United Pentecostal, and Jehovah's Witnesses in very important ways. Some of the ways are: nowhere in God's word do we read about the Methodist Church. Jesus promised to build his group, congregation, or assembly. (Matthew 16:18) All man-made traditions and religions are opposed to the New Testament plan, and they are eternally wrong. (Matthew 15:1-14) Paul never said the Methodist churches, or Baptist churches, or Lutheran churches "greet you." He said "the congregations of Christ greet you." (Romans 16:16) The word of God is perfectly true and stands as our rule of faith and practice! (John 12:48-50) Leave man-made religion and take your stand with God.
The "scriptures" are a story, they are NOT real and never happened. Your god and jesus are myths!
That argument isn' particularly practical. At best, the only way to achieve such a thing is to firmly decide to just never call any other people without proper doctrine Christians or anything such as that.
Otherwise there has to be some other distinguishing factor between true followers or Christ and heretics developed somehow, which has been denominations. If not that, we need some other way, I suppose just calling people heretics could work and would even be accurate, but I suspect it wouldn't be a good tool for reconcilation between groups.
@Mike Richards you sound like a member of the iglesia ni cristo. maybe not, but your belief that there is only one true church of christ is similar. if your church is the only true church of christ, it follows that the vast majority of humankind wiil end up in hell. how could you believe that god wills to save all people from hell if this is the case? it would have been better if god had not created any human being than have only a small portion of people to join him in heaven for all eternity, leaving the rest of humankind to eternal damnation. this kind of god is highly questionable and does not deserve to be worshipped and loved.
@@amadoramos5040 when you have the time to read the word of God, please, yes please read (Matthew 7:13-14 and Matthew 7:21-29). Those are Jesus' words. He specifically says most people will take the broad road. Few will take the narrow road. Why? Because most people choose to "choose to do it their way," regardless of what God's word says. Human traditions and opinions are more important to the masses of people. Jesus says a person must choose him over the closest family members we have on earth. (Matthew 10-34-39; Luke 14:26)
Thank God for the Orthodox church....
Agree
I'd like to see this new denomination really get on fire for Jesus. They have the potential to really do great things for Jesus.
I can’t find a GMC in my area and not sure what to do for now?
There wasn't quite the buy-in from the former United Methodist congregations that the GMC founders predicted; many churches chose to go independent.
Lost sound half way through.
Why can't the individuals and churches that are guilty of violating the discipline just be removed from the denomination?
A very nice presentation. It looks like "don't ask - don't tell" for the Global Methodist denomination. This does not resonate with folks under 35. What happens when the old ones die off? 🤔
This is a theological issue not all age related. That is the big mistake denominations make and hence schisms.
Under 35 adult Christians, who are practicing, are much more traditional than over 50s. They might be dissatisfied, but not in the direction you think
@@kylejacobson9587 I was referring to the under 35 demographic in general - society at large.
I am a non-celibate homosexual and I love the fact that I am now treated equally like everyone else!
Why didn’t the break away Lutherans just join the LCMS???
Excellent news!
I never knew about the Book of Discipline when I was in the UMC. I never believed, even then, that traditions of men should be added to scripture, and alot of Methodists I know believe the same way.
Excellent point.
Well done.
People are going to create their own personal churches using YT...... it’s easy: find a preacher you like and watch his/her sermons.... watch all the christian praise music videos you like.... and use the comment sections like this to fellowship with like minded christians..... and of course read the Bible slowly for yourself..... enjoy your own personal church!
I go to a more conservative UMC church, and I love it there. But I’m debating whether or not to convert to baptist.
How about considering the A/G or an ARC church
@@henrymagoun3230 exactly
Do it.
Where is biblical truth? The scriptures are the authority not man!
@Eremias Ranwolf The Holy Spirit
God made man in His image, since that time man has tried to create a god in their own image, this is just another example of this.
I once was a member of the UMC, many former Catholics were members, the term for them was Metholics.
The Assembly of God has a tad more members than the UMC.
Aog is a cult
Didn't the United Methodist Church form in 1968 when Methodist North & South became United? I know I am off-topic, I was just curious.
The north-south merger between the Methodist Episcopal Church, Methodist Episcopal Church South and also the Methodist Protestant Church happened in 1939 to form the Methodist Church. The 1968 merger was between the Methodist Church and the Evangelical United Brethren Church.
@@dmacc1206 Thank you for this information. I totally forgot about the UBC merger. When I was a child my grandmother would tell me stories of her childhood Sunday School class (in the 1920s) having little chairs that said Methodist Episcopal South. I love church history!
We're waiting for a real and new confessing Methodist Church in Germany!
Anybody who has appropriated grace should never confess and ask for forgiveness. Asking for something that has already been given to you shows that you did not believe that it was in the first place. Thus, you have not appropriated grace through faith, and without it, you are lost.
Become Biblical Christians to worship God and fellowship at any time and in any place without Christian organizations and their buildings.
And a thick burn at the end.
To clarify, the Book of Discipline specifies that it is the _practice_ of homosexuality that is incompatible with Christian teaching, not the person. This is much like the differentiation between the act of theft as opposed to the thief themselves. No person is "incompatible" with Christian teaching. The discipline clearly states that "All persons are individuals of sacred worth, created in the image of God."
It's so odd to me when churches argue for "biblical views" on marriage, and then say they want one-man-one-woman. That isn't biblical at all. None of the fathers of the faith lived that way. Marriage in the Bible was one man, multiple wives, and multiple concubines. No one in the Bible ever argued against that. The only restriction was for Church leadership later on, and that was in one verse, written to one local congregation. So, polygamy was just fine. Anyone still want that? I don't for myself. But it's biblical.
That's a rather interesting interpretation of what constitutes a Christian church. As such, the numbers stated here are off.
I went to a Methodist Church for 5 years before I realized the pastor was not a real Christian - he was not born again. He was not indwelled with the Holy Spirit. It’s very very sad and tragic that most mainline Protestant denominations do not teach how to be born again correctly. Most of them teach that salvation happens as an infant is baptized and then you learn some religious concepts and get “confirmed.” This leaves the congregants thinking they are saved when they are not. “But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.” Mathew 7:14
The fruit of the Spirit is , among other things...SELF CONTROL...not sinful sexual anarchy
It's time for a new logo anyway. The old logo is a bit scary to those who don't know its original meaning.
So much for "united."
Hope GMC works..
Can soldiers, fat people, lawyers, or astronauts be christian?
If they except the Holy Spirit stop practicing sin ask for give forgiveness like all Christian the Father Son Hoiy Spirit yes than fat people soldiers or astronauts can be Christian
@@columbusjustice5183 but they would have to stop being astronauts and fat people!
Nice concise summery. God is going to do a new thing!
No, not new.
Nothing new is true,
and nothing true is new!
Oremus. Jesus is Lord. Stay In a state of Grace.