Here's a few other bits of information will also help explain things. 1.) What's happening with LigaMX is what happens when a league becomes TOO popular, to the point where it starves other sports (let alone the lower divisions) for oxygen. And the league's core audience is no longer its domestic audience. Instead, it's the Mexican diaspora in the US. Why is that? Money. Simply put, Mexican-Americans make more money than Mexicans, and are more willing to spend it on their favorite clubs and on El Tri. This is why El Tri hold virtually all of their non-competitive matches in the US, in front of a wealthier audience. 2.) There actually was a good reason for LigaMX's "stabilization agreement" which placed a "temporary" moratorium on promotion and relegation. LigaMX's popularity had come at the cost of the second division, then known as AscensoMX. Many clubs in the Ascenso were playing in tiny, dilapidated stadiums (and often they were both) that no longer met LigaMX's minimum standards. In theory, the "stabilization agreement" is allowing these clubs to reorganize and become more financially stable. That said, reality created a much different picture. The new second division, the Liga de Expansion (also known as Liga Desarollos) isn't much more than a reserve or u23 league. Many LdE clubs are owned either in part or in full by LigaMX clubs, who operate the LdE as a minor league, similar to Major League Baseball's multiple-tier farm system. 3.) Multiple-team ownership. We're not talking about City Football Group or Red Bull owning clubs around the world, with Manchester City and RB Leipzig at the top of their respective pyramids. We're talking about organizations that own multiple clubs within the league. Over a third of LigaMX clubs are owned by three conglomerates, and these conglomerates also own clubs in part or in full within the LdE. The FMF (Mexican Football Federation) is claiming to be in the process of outlawing multiple-club ownership, but the ugly truth is that the FMF is utterly powerless to stop LigaMX. The FMF opposed LigaMX's "stabilization agreement", but LigaMX told the FMF that it was either that or they would break away from the FMF altogether, to which the FMF responded by meekly accepting the "stabilization agreement". This outraged many supporters in the country, to the point where a rival league (Liga de Balmopie Mexicano) and FA (Asociacion Nacional de Balompie Mexicano, which is the first national governing body to be recognized by CONIFA) were formed in protest. FWIW, LigaMx has even threatened the FMF with the possibility of LigaMX MERGING with MLS, something MLS and its investor/operators have been very cool toward, if not outright dismissive of. 4.) None of this really matters. The men and corporations who control LigaMX, and by extension the FMF, are the wealthiest men in Mexico, and among the wealthiest in the world. Plummeting attendance figures are offset by handsome TV deals with American Spanish-language networks, as well as massive amounts of merchandise being sold in the US to the Mexican diaspora. At the end of the day, LigaMX is still profitable, and continuing to look north in search of more profit.
This is incredibly put, even stuff in here that I didn't know. I've been learning about Mexican football for the past 18 months, so this was a really interesting read. I've pinned it in case other people want to read it whilst watching the vid!
Damn, the idea of MLS and MX merging is nice but i get the lack of commitment cause of the risk, also asking players every week to get out their passports might lead to diva activity from players
@linsithebe7080 That said, American citizens only need a REAL ID Act-compliant "enhanced" Driver's License to enter Canada, Mexico, and most Caribbean nations. Not sure about Central America.
@@linsithebe7080 Also, a LigaMX/MLS merger could actually work - at least as far as scheduling is concerned. MLS is about to add its 30th team in San Diego FC (here's hoping they get a new pitch at Snapdragon Stadium before they start play next March, because it's basically a beach-volleyball court right now), and LigaMX has been teasing the possibility of "promoting" two teams from the Liga de Expansion, which would bring their total up to 20. For the sake of arguments, let's consider each league to now be a conference. Divide the MLS teams into three ten-team regional divisions (West, Central, East) and the LigaMX teams into two ten-team regional divisions (North and South). An unbalanced schedule would have each team playing home-and-away with with every team in their own division (18 total), one game against each team in a different division of their own conference (10 games, with the division rotating annually), and one game against each team in one division of the opposite conference (10 games, again with the division rotating annually), resulting in a 38-game regular season - the same number of games your average twenty-team league plays in a traditional double-round-robin format. FWIW, the format for the schedule is basically the same as that of the NFL, and it allows a team's home crowd to see every team in the league at least once every four years, while still making room for local/regional derbies. And one thing MLS and LigaMX can agree on is that both fanbases love post-season playoffs. MLS has its MLS Cup Playoffs, while LigaMX has the "liguilla or "little league" at the end of their Apertura and Clausura seasons, with the winners of each tournament meeting in the Campeon de Campeones, which is basically a Supercup. The easiest way to determine a champion in this mashup would be a sixteen-team single elimination tournament (higher-seeded teams hosting) consisting of the five Divisional champions plus the eleven best remaining teams league-wide.
MLS not having pro/rel makes sense, since it is first and foremost an American sports league. But for Mexico not to have it is inexcusable. They're as much a footballing country as any other in Latin America. They should know better.
I think just coming from the UK and seeing how exciting pro/rel can be makes it surprising that not only do they not have it, but they even removed it.
MLS not having Pro/Rel is only viable because professional football is so new in United States (MLS was founded in 1996 with 10 clubs). this is for the sake for league stability. we're getting to the point now that american fans and lower leagues like USL are playing with the idea of Pro/Rel. the same parallels happened with Japan. there was no professional football league in Japan until J-League in 1990, they eventually transitioned into pro/rel into the 2000s Liga MX on the other hand, WANTS to be like MLS. the Liga MX owners want to copy our handicaps for some reason
It’s because MLS operates how it does, it’s given leagues the excuse to ditch pro/rel, with Argentina now getting rid of promotion/relegation. LigaMX has gotten more and more intertwined with MLS with the leagues cup among other marketing ideas given by the MLS’ arm Soccer United Marketing. And this is still continuing the decline as MLS is starting to siphon off talent and money away from Mexican soccer. And the U.S. has a long history of soccer in the U.S. the idea that soccer didn’t exist in the US until the MLS is as absurd as it not existing in England before the premier league was created.
@@NegaRenGenX2gay2liftUSL is not playing with Pro/Rel it’s playing with Pro/Rel truthers. They’ve been pretending they’re about to implement it forever because their entire brand is trying to be MLS while pretending to be the EFL. They’ve taken absolutely no concrete steps toward introducing pro/rel - only steps toward stringing along people who believe in it.
and i think it works better in the US because the league has roster rules set up to make it easy to turn around from a bad year. salary caps that limit how much good teams spend, drafts and allocation orders that help bad teams rebuild, DP rules that let teams sign good players with the help of the league, a team that’s bad one year doesn’t have to invest as much as a liga mx team to turn around, which in the long run doesn’t hurt the league that much in terms of fan support. MLS works without pro/rel because they’re using the heavy parity model of american sports which cycles out the good and bad teams, but Liga MX ditched pro/rel without adopting the heavy parity which means there’s not much movement over years
Another reason is that Mexican players can't leave, there is no Bosman rule in Mexico, so even if their contracts expire another team has to pay the original team for them. So they can't test themselves in other leagues, but also Mexican clubs also overpay the players to stay, instead of going to South America or Europe and be paid less, Liga MX teams offer them multi-million dollar contracts so they stay.
En realidad si se pueden ir, y la diferencia en salarios es enorme, un ejemplo es Ochoa que en el América cobraba 4.5 millones de dólares, mientras que en su paso por la Salernitana cobraba 450 mil, y para ellos era un sacrificio enorme pagar esa suma.
First off the relegation in Mexico was a joke for a while, only the small poor teams got relegated and it was basically no relegation. As even then relegated teams bought another club and changed the franchise
Y era bastante irónico que el club más jodido de primera fuera más rico que el mejor de segunda, y salía más rentable vender su lugar en la liga y listo.
@@Nicolas-1812 so i cant enjoy liga mx with my family? or watch the playoffs because the relegation is screwed and corruption and what not? who are you to judge and set bars? the amount of comments you leave bickering leaves me concerned for you, poor soul. i will pray for you.
A Canadian team beating a liga mx team isn't that big of a deal. Alarm bells will ring once MLS or any other Concacaf team start to consecutively win the Concacaf Champions Cup. The Leagues Cup doesn't matter since it heavily favors MLS teams.
While it’s possible a CPL team will beat a Liga MX team in the near future, CPL will never overtake Liga MX in the long run. CPL doesn’t have the finances nor football/soccer culture to overtake Liga MX. The best CPL can do is be the third best domestic league in Concacaf behind MLS and Liga MX.
I really don’t think pro/rel is the issue here. The league has been dipping for a while now due to team mismanagement, poor refereeing, and not making big signings.
@@wadeflores6978 i think its a lot to do with pro/rel. Playing by Merrit forces management to run the club how it should be ran, not as a free money scheme vs a closed system which breeds complacency
@@xaaviaudreek4859 I mean you can look at other sports that have a closed system, they dont breed complacency. Liga MX has been going through issues for the better part of 15 years. It is not soley because of pro/rel.
Interesting that when I was in Guadalajara in early November I looked at getting tickets to Chivas vs Pumas at Stadia Akron (Chivas home), tickets were basically sold out and the ones left I felt were way overpriced. Paying nearly $100 USD for a ticket that was literally in the top row of the stadium was crazy to me. And it's not like Pumas are a huge draw team. We opted for the stadium tour instead, which was a lot of fun. I found it interesting that a good percentage (slightly less than half?) of the people on the tour seemed to be living the US currently but Mexican nationals. This matches with what BroadwayJoe99 said about the money for LigaMX/El Tri being in the US.
One of the bigger reasons that a lot of people don’t talk about, is the disillusion in the validity of matches throughout the league. For example the last final between club America and cruz azul, everyone watching the game saw the blatant corruption at play in the biggest match of the season. I think after that, on top of all the other reasons discussed in this video it’s what’s really made a big dent in attendance and attracting new fans.
And crazy put Mexico in 2026 away for good for the US in front of the entire world and don't forget similar for the US women's team as well (idk if the women's world cup is after 2026 as well) against Mexico as well... If it's mismanagement, I think tbh with you, it's a cartel thing.... And may take over the Mexican soccer and their national team.... I don't see good here.....
@@Nicolas-1812is what it is mate, MLS is purposely handicapping itself and this is all while being the 5th most popular sport in America Compared to Mexico where Football is the biggest sport not 5th and it has huge budgets for teams
I think you were spot-on about your topics. One more topic I might add is: the purchasing of historic clubs when they're going through financial struggles. The latest major example I can think of is Monarcas Morelia. This was a very popular, historic club with everything from league titles to bone-chilling, relegation-saving matches and were bought by today's Mazatlan which barely makes you want to watch them and are constantly towards the bottom of the table. Also, if you get relegated you might "buy" the rights of a top-level club as was the case for Bravos Ciudad Juarez from Lobos BUAP. There's a ton of corruption at the end of the day.
If you want to get rid of pro/rel then fine, but you really have to cap how much teams can spend to keep things competitive. Either keep or bring back pro/rel, or get rid of it and put in a salary cap. Otherwise you’ll just get the same teams getting the same results year after year. Hopefully they bring it back and soon.
In Mexico we don't have real fans. We have a few people that might watch games on TV but people don't go out of their way to go to stadiums. We are a very apathetic culture. Promotion and relegation really won't fix anything. It was the same mediocre fans that barely went to stadiums when there was promotion and relegation. There is no passion for local teams either. Most people root for the same three or four teams regardless of where are they from. Also, we are a culture that is very negative. If our team is playing bad nobody goes to watch them out of pure passion for the team. Also we say we understand football, but we don't.
They need to bring back relegation and promotion and the corruption from the fa needs to be stopped. That and hording young talent while not giving them game time until their 23-25
IMO as an outsider there is also the fact that Mexico’s other major pastime Baseball might grow due to the success of the Mexican National team in the World Baseball Classic. Not to mention there is an effort to grow the Mexican summer league (Liga Mexicana de Beísbol) as it seems that the sport might grow as the domestic fans continue to get diluted from Liga MX and the failure of the men’s Football team. Though there are some caveats one most of the bigger market teams are barely Mexican (30% is the required minimum) and I bet football will still dominate just not Liga MX probably foreign leagues.
Also MLB is playing regular season games (usually selecting teams in California and Texas that popular with the diaspora) in Mexico so they’re going to attract some fans too.
Sorry if this is a stupid question but if the MLS is considered more valuable how come Liga MX teams always seem to win the concacaf Champions League? With a few exceptions
because MLS Clubs have a salary cap to curb them from overspending. Meanwhile the few good Mx Clubs have no cap on spending, so they have a far higher payroll. but eventually with the money they are losing, they eventually will have to cut costs or go under.
MLS is much less top heavy. MX also has a better home field advantage. So while the top 2-3 teams in MX will still usually beat the top of MLS in a 2 leg tie the average MLS team is better as we saw in leagues cup. (though the gap is closing very quickly look at how MLS performed in the last 5 years compared to the previous 5)
Honestly, it comes down to form. When CCl starts the MLS season is just getting started and squads are still figuring each other out. While Liga MX sides have been playing for the better part of 3-4 months.
La Leagues Cup nadie en México se la toma en serio, se lo puedes preguntar a cualquier mexicano, y realmente los clubes de la Liga MX son mejores, solo hay que ver el promedio salarial, el de la MLS es solo un poco mejor, pero la mayor parte de la nómina se la lleva la estrella, y las migajas van para el resto de los jugadores. Y el que perdió la concachampions (Pumas), es el Tottenham mexicano, literalmente perdió la anterior vez con un equipo de Costa Rica, y es considerado una vergüenza por esa actuación tan desastrosa. México está más preocupado por tratar de volver a la Libertadores que por ganar una copa inventada como la Leagues Cup, o por la Concachampions que lo único bueno que da es el pase al mundial de clubes. De hecho la liga importa más, incluso la Copa MX cuando existía importaba más. Y ni hablar de que la MLS tiene más equipos, y hasta no hace mucho era más valiosa que la Liga Argentina aún y con sus 30 equipos, solo que con el mundial se revalorizó.
USL is pushing pre/reg for their own leagues in the US AND I think this will have an unexpected affect on Liga MX and MLS. Here's my 10 year prognostication, Liga MX and MLS ( NOT the MLS) will merge and create a N. American "super league" with pro/reg. How that might work or look is beyond knuckle dragging mind but remember this post.
As an outsider the argument to get rid of pro/rel to save some LigaMX clubs seems to me like hidden nepotism & corruption. Football and the pyramid is not about Aristocracy. This mentallity reminds me of European Kings who believed they have a god given place on earth (or league). Some Club owner in Europe also argue like that, when it comes to champions league spots. But what about the lower league mexican clubs, who earned their spots and now got denied? The free market of the pyramid will fix itself. "Management" is also part of the sport and if you "mismanage" your club, well you deserve it, yet you have the chance to come back.
Liga Mx has certainly fallen I was a Morelia supporter they destroyed my team stopped following the league completely until recently I’ve caught a game here and there and notice people aren’t at the stadiums either
I love football, I love Mexico and I love this league. I hate the board. I hate the federation. I hate the decline. And this is a little personal, but I hate hate hate Mazatlan FC. Another issue that needs some spotlight is franchising. My old club Monarcas Morelia with tradition, history dating back to the 1920s, and success, was relocated mid pandemic to Mazatlan. A city that has not seen not even second tier club football. They’re a low table club which is a pretty big difference to Morelia’s consistent appearences in liguilla. A very clear difference in quality. The federation approved the relocation and that sealed it from there. I saw nothing but failure after failure for Mexico after 2020, and I was right.
Promotion and relegation are almost all the drama and the stories in football. Isn’t that why we all love it. Get rid of that you’re gonna start losing fans. eventually.
Oh well. Liga MX is a North American league. And it makes sense for them to tie themselves closer to what the United States and MLS is doing. They just need to wait until the culture adjusts to being more North American style oriented instead of Central and South American style oriented. And they need to sign some bigger names as well. That would obviously help some. And also they need to take into account the fact that the economy hasn't been quite the same since COVID either. This will right itself eventually. Especially with the World Cup coming in 2026. But Liga MX will just have accept they will have to play second to MLS sometimes. Since they are competing with MLS these days.
I hope the women's team for Mexico is good, because that may be the team for Mexico to watch tbh to take on US Women's Team as well, the chapter of Dos a Cero may not close just yet....
Liga MX has always ranked higher than MLS all of a sudden Messi arrived and mls breaks top 10 what a joke. What happened to inter Miami when they played a top liga mx team(Monterrey)? How many mls teams have won the concacaf champions league in the past 20 years? Exactly why is mls ahead of liga mx?
I have a pickle with you.. -1st graph is wrong. It has Mexico with 77.6 points behind others with a lower score. Mexico should be just behind the MLS -On the 2nd graph you are comparing total value of the league. Ok, but Mexico has half the league size at 20 teams. Then you proceed to compare the quality of the players. Using your same numbers, Mexican league players are more valuable per player than MLS. This would invalidate your 3rd point; liga Mx has just better players. -the no-relegation decision was actually 2 fold: some clubs where failing, but also certain nefarious groups where “investing” in football. Last time this was discussed, 3 clubs involved in the promotion were detected as infiltrated. This is the main reason for continuing with the no-relegation -Mexico did not “decided” to leave libertadores, it was MADE to leave libertadores by CONCACAF to promote concachampions. We were also made to leave copa America to promote concacaf’s gold cup. Other than that, good analysis…
@@SamsCornerTalk this is the case for a lot of football fans i know in the states, they consider all leagues this side of the atlantic inferior and only watch european sides. kinda sucks bc with them the mls could be way more popular, ofc i'm not saying the talent compares but to me it's way cooler cheering for a team in my state versus one in another country with different culture and games starting usually at 6am lol
The average MLS player is younger than the average MX player by about a year. MLS does have some big name retirees but that’s not what the bulk of league is made up of. The average age is 26.1 while the average age in MX is 27
Pro rel doesnt pro anything really why would anyone in oursode of the globe wanna watch two or 3 teams that play other bad teams to see who the least bad??? Its all about making the playoffs
@ yeah and yet it’s some of the worst defending in the world with old washed players dominating (besides Messi). You have to be very delusional to think mls is better than the championship, eredivisie, Argentinian league, Turkish league, etc. mls is becoming a feeder league but by no means is it better than those leagues I named. It’s harder to not make the playoffs then to actually make it in mls 🤡🤡
@ league structure matters wise ass. It makes teams more competitive and has more than one league of football in the country not just teams who can be trash and suffer no consequences. Pro-rel is a MUST if mls wants to be a serious league
@ what does “competitive” mean? Because if it has anything to do with y’know … competition than MLS is more competitive than any major European league because which team is gonna win is actually not a forgone conclusion (imagine that! Actual competition!)
@ btw the average age in MLS is lower than any of the big 5 European leagues Liga MX or really most any notable league in the world. I get eurosnob is your whole personality but when you’re yelling “delusional” the bare minimum would be to tune in to some games. I know it’s causing an identity crisis for some hipsters that MLS is emerging as a good league. So many deeply held borderline religious beliefs are being challenged
@kalmenbarkin5708 by who and by what, who cares what the rest of the world think!! MLS needs to make it in America.. by your statement it just shows soccer is in a much sadder state
@@PoppinC-l3w it’s course of improving slowly and sustainably building infrastructure and academies from the ground up? What exactly in MLS’ “trajectory” suggests a crash? Wishful thinking like “but I don’t like this structure” doesn’t count.
Here's a few other bits of information will also help explain things.
1.) What's happening with LigaMX is what happens when a league becomes TOO popular, to the point where it starves other sports (let alone the lower divisions) for oxygen. And the league's core audience is no longer its domestic audience. Instead, it's the Mexican diaspora in the US. Why is that? Money. Simply put, Mexican-Americans make more money than Mexicans, and are more willing to spend it on their favorite clubs and on El Tri. This is why El Tri hold virtually all of their non-competitive matches in the US, in front of a wealthier audience.
2.) There actually was a good reason for LigaMX's "stabilization agreement" which placed a "temporary" moratorium on promotion and relegation. LigaMX's popularity had come at the cost of the second division, then known as AscensoMX. Many clubs in the Ascenso were playing in tiny, dilapidated stadiums (and often they were both) that no longer met LigaMX's minimum standards. In theory, the "stabilization agreement" is allowing these clubs to reorganize and become more financially stable. That said, reality created a much different picture. The new second division, the Liga de Expansion (also known as Liga Desarollos) isn't much more than a reserve or u23 league. Many LdE clubs are owned either in part or in full by LigaMX clubs, who operate the LdE as a minor league, similar to Major League Baseball's multiple-tier farm system.
3.) Multiple-team ownership. We're not talking about City Football Group or Red Bull owning clubs around the world, with Manchester City and RB Leipzig at the top of their respective pyramids. We're talking about organizations that own multiple clubs within the league. Over a third of LigaMX clubs are owned by three conglomerates, and these conglomerates also own clubs in part or in full within the LdE. The FMF (Mexican Football Federation) is claiming to be in the process of outlawing multiple-club ownership, but the ugly truth is that the FMF is utterly powerless to stop LigaMX. The FMF opposed LigaMX's "stabilization agreement", but LigaMX told the FMF that it was either that or they would break away from the FMF altogether, to which the FMF responded by meekly accepting the "stabilization agreement". This outraged many supporters in the country, to the point where a rival league (Liga de Balmopie Mexicano) and FA (Asociacion Nacional de Balompie Mexicano, which is the first national governing body to be recognized by CONIFA) were formed in protest. FWIW, LigaMx has even threatened the FMF with the possibility of LigaMX MERGING with MLS, something MLS and its investor/operators have been very cool toward, if not outright dismissive of.
4.) None of this really matters. The men and corporations who control LigaMX, and by extension the FMF, are the wealthiest men in Mexico, and among the wealthiest in the world. Plummeting attendance figures are offset by handsome TV deals with American Spanish-language networks, as well as massive amounts of merchandise being sold in the US to the Mexican diaspora. At the end of the day, LigaMX is still profitable, and continuing to look north in search of more profit.
This is incredibly put, even stuff in here that I didn't know. I've been learning about Mexican football for the past 18 months, so this was a really interesting read.
I've pinned it in case other people want to read it whilst watching the vid!
Damn, the idea of MLS and MX merging is nice but i get the lack of commitment cause of the risk, also asking players every week to get out their passports might lead to diva activity from players
@linsithebe7080 Vancouver Whitecaps, Toronto FC and CF Montreal have entered the chat.
@linsithebe7080 That said, American citizens only need a REAL ID Act-compliant "enhanced" Driver's License to enter Canada, Mexico, and most Caribbean nations. Not sure about Central America.
@@linsithebe7080 Also, a LigaMX/MLS merger could actually work - at least as far as scheduling is concerned. MLS is about to add its 30th team in San Diego FC (here's hoping they get a new pitch at Snapdragon Stadium before they start play next March, because it's basically a beach-volleyball court right now), and LigaMX has been teasing the possibility of "promoting" two teams from the Liga de Expansion, which would bring their total up to 20. For the sake of arguments, let's consider each league to now be a conference. Divide the MLS teams into three ten-team regional divisions (West, Central, East) and the LigaMX teams into two ten-team regional divisions (North and South). An unbalanced schedule would have each team playing home-and-away with with every team in their own division (18 total), one game against each team in a different division of their own conference (10 games, with the division rotating annually), and one game against each team in one division of the opposite conference (10 games, again with the division rotating annually), resulting in a 38-game regular season - the same number of games your average twenty-team league plays in a traditional double-round-robin format. FWIW, the format for the schedule is basically the same as that of the NFL, and it allows a team's home crowd to see every team in the league at least once every four years, while still making room for local/regional derbies.
And one thing MLS and LigaMX can agree on is that both fanbases love post-season playoffs. MLS has its MLS Cup Playoffs, while LigaMX has the "liguilla or "little league" at the end of their Apertura and Clausura seasons, with the winners of each tournament meeting in the Campeon de Campeones, which is basically a Supercup. The easiest way to determine a champion in this mashup would be a sixteen-team single elimination tournament (higher-seeded teams hosting) consisting of the five Divisional champions plus the eleven best remaining teams league-wide.
MLS not having pro/rel makes sense, since it is first and foremost an American sports league. But for Mexico not to have it is inexcusable. They're as much a footballing country as any other in Latin America. They should know better.
I think just coming from the UK and seeing how exciting pro/rel can be makes it surprising that not only do they not have it, but they even removed it.
MLS not having Pro/Rel is only viable because professional football is so new in United States (MLS was founded in 1996 with 10 clubs). this is for the sake for league stability. we're getting to the point now that american fans and lower leagues like USL are playing with the idea of Pro/Rel. the same parallels happened with Japan. there was no professional football league in Japan until J-League in 1990, they eventually transitioned into pro/rel into the 2000s
Liga MX on the other hand, WANTS to be like MLS. the Liga MX owners want to copy our handicaps for some reason
It’s because MLS operates how it does, it’s given leagues the excuse to ditch pro/rel, with Argentina now getting rid of promotion/relegation. LigaMX has gotten more and more intertwined with MLS with the leagues cup among other marketing ideas given by the MLS’ arm Soccer United Marketing. And this is still continuing the decline as MLS is starting to siphon off talent and money away from Mexican soccer.
And the U.S. has a long history of soccer in the U.S. the idea that soccer didn’t exist in the US until the MLS is as absurd as it not existing in England before the premier league was created.
@@NegaRenGenX2gay2liftUSL is not playing with Pro/Rel it’s playing with Pro/Rel truthers. They’ve been pretending they’re about to implement it forever because their entire brand is trying to be MLS while pretending to be the EFL. They’ve taken absolutely no concrete steps toward introducing pro/rel - only steps toward stringing along people who believe in it.
and i think it works better in the US because the league has roster rules set up to make it easy to turn around from a bad year. salary caps that limit how much good teams spend, drafts and allocation orders that help bad teams rebuild, DP rules that let teams sign good players with the help of the league, a team that’s bad one year doesn’t have to invest as much as a liga mx team to turn around, which in the long run doesn’t hurt the league that much in terms of fan support. MLS works without pro/rel because they’re using the heavy parity model of american sports which cycles out the good and bad teams, but Liga MX ditched pro/rel without adopting the heavy parity which means there’s not much movement over years
Another reason is that Mexican players can't leave, there is no Bosman rule in Mexico, so even if their contracts expire another team has to pay the original team for them. So they can't test themselves in other leagues, but also Mexican clubs also overpay the players to stay, instead of going to South America or Europe and be paid less, Liga MX teams offer them multi-million dollar contracts so they stay.
It's annoying to see as there's so much potential but it's being wasted to some extent.
En realidad si se pueden ir, y la diferencia en salarios es enorme, un ejemplo es Ochoa que en el América cobraba 4.5 millones de dólares, mientras que en su paso por la Salernitana cobraba 450 mil, y para ellos era un sacrificio enorme pagar esa suma.
First off the relegation in Mexico was a joke for a while, only the small poor teams got relegated and it was basically no relegation. As even then relegated teams bought another club and changed the franchise
Y era bastante irónico que el club más jodido de primera fuera más rico que el mejor de segunda, y salía más rentable vender su lugar en la liga y listo.
Great video! As an avid Liga mx enjoyer you’ve summed it up perfectly!!!
Thank you so much, it really means a lot!!
@ no problem! keep it up! you’ve earned yourself a subscriber 💪🇲🇽🤝🇪🇺🏴
“an avid liga mx enjoyer” the bar is so low
@@Nicolas-1812 so i cant enjoy liga mx with my family? or watch the playoffs because the relegation is screwed and corruption and what not? who are you to judge and set bars? the amount of comments you leave bickering leaves me concerned for you, poor soul. i will pray for you.
@@pouplurlolboy8157 you need new standards and you’re concerned for me (?) why don’t you pray for some decency lmao
The day a Canadian Premier League side beats a Liga MX is when the alarm bells will ring.
Unfortunately when that happens it will be too late.
To think that less than 10 years ago they had clubs reaching the Copa Libertadores final.
@ if a CPL team like Cavalry (which is my team based out of Calgary) beats them in a Champions Cup game…oh boy.
@@SamsCornerTalkPachuca also won a Sudamericana in 2006. So…yeah. Baffling.
A Canadian team beating a liga mx team isn't that big of a deal. Alarm bells will ring once MLS or any other Concacaf team start to consecutively win the Concacaf Champions Cup.
The Leagues Cup doesn't matter since it heavily favors MLS teams.
While it’s possible a CPL team will beat a Liga MX team in the near future, CPL will never overtake Liga MX in the long run. CPL doesn’t have the finances nor football/soccer culture to overtake Liga MX. The best CPL can do is be the third best domestic league in Concacaf behind MLS and Liga MX.
Hope to God that Promotion/Relegation returns, can't see a way for the league to improve if we don't have even that.
I will be shocked if it's not back in the next few years!
I really don’t think pro/rel is the issue here. The league has been dipping for a while now due to team mismanagement, poor refereeing, and not making big signings.
@@wadeflores6978 i think its a lot to do with pro/rel. Playing by Merrit forces management to run the club how it should be ran, not as a free money scheme vs a closed system which breeds complacency
@@xaaviaudreek4859 I mean you can look at other sports that have a closed system, they dont breed complacency. Liga MX has been going through issues for the better part of 15 years. It is not soley because of pro/rel.
I don't think its ever coming back @SamsCornerTalk
Interesting that when I was in Guadalajara in early November I looked at getting tickets to Chivas vs Pumas at Stadia Akron (Chivas home), tickets were basically sold out and the ones left I felt were way overpriced. Paying nearly $100 USD for a ticket that was literally in the top row of the stadium was crazy to me. And it's not like Pumas are a huge draw team.
We opted for the stadium tour instead, which was a lot of fun. I found it interesting that a good percentage (slightly less than half?) of the people on the tour seemed to be living the US currently but Mexican nationals. This matches with what BroadwayJoe99 said about the money for LigaMX/El Tri being in the US.
Chivas is one of the biggest teams in Mexico. You cant really compare your experience with Chivas to the other teams
One of the bigger reasons that a lot of people don’t talk about, is the disillusion in the validity of matches throughout the league. For example the last final between club America and cruz azul, everyone watching the game saw the blatant corruption at play in the biggest match of the season. I think after that, on top of all the other reasons discussed in this video it’s what’s really made a big dent in attendance and attracting new fans.
Stop it your taking the piss you’re saying that cause your anti American supporter your wouldn’t be saying that if it was chivas right 🤡🤡🤡
I don’t think the issue is Pro/rel. it’s just more of mismanagement from top to bottom of the league as whole.
I won't be surprised if MLS starts winning not only Leagues Cup, but CONCACAF Champions League titles, and sweeps the next few years.
And crazy put Mexico in 2026 away for good for the US in front of the entire world and don't forget similar for the US women's team as well (idk if the women's world cup is after 2026 as well) against Mexico as well...
If it's mismanagement, I think tbh with you, it's a cartel thing.... And may take over the Mexican soccer and their national team....
I don't see good here.....
“starts” you people really do live in a bubble
@@Nicolas-1812is what it is mate, MLS is purposely handicapping itself and this is all while being the 5th most popular sport in America
Compared to Mexico where Football is the biggest sport not 5th and it has huge budgets for teams
I think you were spot-on about your topics. One more topic I might add is: the purchasing of historic clubs when they're going through financial struggles. The latest major example I can think of is Monarcas Morelia. This was a very popular, historic club with everything from league titles to bone-chilling, relegation-saving matches and were bought by today's Mazatlan which barely makes you want to watch them and are constantly towards the bottom of the table. Also, if you get relegated you might "buy" the rights of a top-level club as was the case for Bravos Ciudad Juarez from Lobos BUAP. There's a ton of corruption at the end of the day.
If you want to get rid of pro/rel then fine, but you really have to cap how much teams can spend to keep things competitive. Either keep or bring back pro/rel, or get rid of it and put in a salary cap. Otherwise you’ll just get the same teams getting the same results year after year.
Hopefully they bring it back and soon.
In Mexico we don't have real fans. We have a few people that might watch games on TV but people don't go out of their way to go to stadiums. We are a very apathetic culture.
Promotion and relegation really won't fix anything. It was the same mediocre fans that barely went to stadiums when there was promotion and relegation.
There is no passion for local teams either. Most people root for the same three or four teams regardless of where are they from.
Also, we are a culture that is very negative. If our team is playing bad nobody goes to watch them out of pure passion for the team.
Also we say we understand football, but we don't.
wow an actual mexican with common sense (?)
They need to bring back relegation and promotion and the corruption from the fa needs to be stopped.
That and hording young talent while not giving them game time until their 23-25
IMO as an outsider there is also the fact that Mexico’s other major pastime Baseball might grow due to the success of the Mexican National team in the World Baseball Classic.
Not to mention there is an effort to grow the Mexican summer league (Liga Mexicana de Beísbol) as it seems that the sport might grow as the domestic fans continue to get diluted from Liga MX and the failure of the men’s Football team.
Though there are some caveats one most of the bigger market teams are barely Mexican (30% is the required minimum) and I bet football will still dominate just not Liga MX probably foreign leagues.
Also MLB is playing regular season games (usually selecting teams in California and Texas that popular with the diaspora) in Mexico so they’re going to attract some fans too.
wait until argentina gets going with baseball, might as well start choosing another sport lmao
The whole structure of the league needs a change and the owners are super greedy
nice one , from Atlas fan
Thanks mate! Best of luck with the Chivas game tonight 🤝
As long as the cartel is involved, it will always be a mess.
Yep definitely...
but, but economy-
Sorry if this is a stupid question but if the MLS is considered more valuable how come Liga MX teams always seem to win the concacaf Champions League? With a few exceptions
because MLS Clubs have a salary cap to curb them from overspending. Meanwhile the few good Mx Clubs have no cap on spending, so they have a far higher payroll. but eventually with the money they are losing, they eventually will have to cut costs or go under.
MLS is much less top heavy. MX also has a better home field advantage. So while the top 2-3 teams in MX will still usually beat the top of MLS in a 2 leg tie the average MLS team is better as we saw in leagues cup. (though the gap is closing very quickly look at how MLS performed in the last 5 years compared to the previous 5)
Honestly, it comes down to form. When CCl starts the MLS season is just getting started and squads are still figuring each other out. While Liga MX sides have been playing for the better part of 3-4 months.
La Leagues Cup nadie en México se la toma en serio, se lo puedes preguntar a cualquier mexicano, y realmente los clubes de la Liga MX son mejores, solo hay que ver el promedio salarial, el de la MLS es solo un poco mejor, pero la mayor parte de la nómina se la lleva la estrella, y las migajas van para el resto de los jugadores.
Y el que perdió la concachampions (Pumas), es el Tottenham mexicano, literalmente perdió la anterior vez con un equipo de Costa Rica, y es considerado una vergüenza por esa actuación tan desastrosa.
México está más preocupado por tratar de volver a la Libertadores que por ganar una copa inventada como la Leagues Cup, o por la Concachampions que lo único bueno que da es el pase al mundial de clubes.
De hecho la liga importa más, incluso la Copa MX cuando existía importaba más.
Y ni hablar de que la MLS tiene más equipos, y hasta no hace mucho era más valiosa que la Liga Argentina aún y con sus 30 equipos, solo que con el mundial se revalorizó.
@ bullshit. Monterrey fired their manager for failing at leagues cup. This is copium. MX takes it seriously - and fails anyway.
USL is pushing pre/reg for their own leagues in the US AND I think this will have an unexpected affect on Liga MX and MLS. Here's my 10 year prognostication, Liga MX and MLS ( NOT the MLS) will merge and create a N. American "super league" with pro/reg. How that might work or look is beyond knuckle dragging mind but remember this post.
This will never happen. Logistics is just way too much for an area as big as Mexico and the US. It's why Leagues Cup (I don't like it) exists.
Without relegation, no league cannot compete against the Brasileirão. It's a shame that Argentina is making the same mistake as Mexico.
As an outsider the argument to get rid of pro/rel to save some LigaMX clubs seems to me like hidden nepotism & corruption. Football and the pyramid is not about Aristocracy. This mentallity reminds me of European Kings who believed they have a god given place on earth (or league). Some Club owner in Europe also argue like that, when it comes to champions league spots. But what about the lower league mexican clubs, who earned their spots and now got denied? The free market of the pyramid will fix itself. "Management" is also part of the sport and if you "mismanage" your club, well you deserve it, yet you have the chance to come back.
Liga Mx has certainly fallen I was a Morelia supporter they destroyed my team stopped following the league completely until recently I’ve caught a game here and there and notice people aren’t at the stadiums either
Wasn't expecting to see Eaton Park when I opened up this video lol
Hahahaha no way, I didn't expect anybody to notice the park watching this!
@SamsCornerTalk filmed in The Fine City
I love football, I love Mexico and I love this league.
I hate the board. I hate the federation. I hate the decline. And this is a little personal, but I hate hate hate Mazatlan FC.
Another issue that needs some spotlight is franchising. My old club Monarcas Morelia with tradition, history dating back to the 1920s, and success, was relocated mid pandemic to Mazatlan. A city that has not seen not even second tier club football. They’re a low table club which is a pretty big difference to Morelia’s consistent appearences in liguilla. A very clear difference in quality.
The federation approved the relocation and that sealed it from there. I saw nothing but failure after failure for Mexico after 2020, and I was right.
Televisa Is the problem
Promotion and relegation are almost all the drama and the stories in football. Isn’t that why we all love it. Get rid of that you’re gonna start losing fans. eventually.
Oh well. Liga MX is a North American league. And it makes sense for them to tie themselves closer to what the United States and MLS is doing. They just need to wait until the culture adjusts to being more North American style oriented instead of Central and South American style oriented. And they need to sign some bigger names as well. That would obviously help some. And also they need to take into account the fact that the economy hasn't been quite the same since COVID either. This will right itself eventually. Especially with the World Cup coming in 2026. But Liga MX will just have accept they will have to play second to MLS sometimes. Since they are competing with MLS these days.
but but economy
Mexican teams should play in the copa
Our historic rivalry with the Argentinian teams is gone. Replaced with artificial MLS teams.
“historic rivalry“ you mexicans do live in a bubble
liga mx femenil is going pretty well though haha.
Wonder why
@@ytpboss2357They are super aggressive and fights break out all the time. I love it!
I hope the women's team for Mexico is good, because that may be the team for Mexico to watch tbh to take on US Women's Team as well, the chapter of Dos a Cero may not close just yet....
Liga MX has always ranked higher than MLS all of a sudden Messi arrived and mls breaks top 10 what a joke. What happened to inter Miami when they played a top liga mx team(Monterrey)? How many mls teams have won the concacaf champions league in the past 20 years? Exactly why is mls ahead of liga mx?
quality. that kind of thing you and your people lack of since the very first world cup.
@ your prejudice is showing here haha. i will pray for you! hopefully you stop projecting your misery onto others!
@ “you people” that just sounds so rude in general 🤨
Ese ranking es una falopa total que Argentina este arriba de la Eredivisie es un chiste
I have a pickle with you..
-1st graph is wrong. It has Mexico with 77.6 points behind others with a lower score. Mexico should be just behind the MLS
-On the 2nd graph you are comparing total value of the league. Ok, but Mexico has half the league size at 20 teams.
Then you proceed to compare the quality of the players. Using your same numbers, Mexican league players are more valuable per player than MLS. This would invalidate your 3rd point; liga Mx has just better players.
-the no-relegation decision was actually 2 fold: some clubs where failing, but also certain nefarious groups where “investing” in football. Last time this was discussed, 3 clubs involved in the promotion were detected as infiltrated. This is the main reason for continuing with the no-relegation
-Mexico did not “decided” to leave libertadores, it was MADE to leave libertadores by CONCACAF to promote concachampions. We were also made to leave copa America to promote concacaf’s gold cup.
Other than that, good analysis…
okay now say it without crying
I am from California and can honestly say I have not watch neither mls or liga Mx. it is only European football for me.
What do you think the main reason for that is?
@@SamsCornerTalk I am not invested in the teams. Low quality of play.
@@SamsCornerTalk this is the case for a lot of football fans i know in the states, they consider all leagues this side of the atlantic inferior and only watch european sides. kinda sucks bc with them the mls could be way more popular, ofc i'm not saying the talent compares but to me it's way cooler cheering for a team in my state versus one in another country with different culture and games starting usually at 6am lol
Lol the majority of their players are in prime wat is this guy saying? Lol hes probably thinking of gignac while mls has so many old players im lost?
The average MLS player is younger than the average MX player by about a year. MLS does have some big name retirees but that’s not what the bulk of league is made up of. The average age is 26.1 while the average age in MX is 27
It's been good for yrs , Mexican league has been super boring n bad
Pro rel doesnt pro anything really why would anyone in oursode of the globe wanna watch two or 3 teams that play other bad teams to see who the least bad??? Its all about making the playoffs
MLS should contract or promote its ten best teams and combine with Liga MX in a new NA league
That leagues around the world ranking is utter nonsense and stupidity. How could a league without pro/rel be 9th? Not even close
Because the ranking is based on the quality of the sides not how much you like the league structure.
@ yeah and yet it’s some of the worst defending in the world with old washed players dominating (besides Messi). You have to be very delusional to think mls is better than the championship, eredivisie, Argentinian league, Turkish league, etc. mls is becoming a feeder league but by no means is it better than those leagues I named. It’s harder to not make the playoffs then to actually make it in mls 🤡🤡
@ league structure matters wise ass. It makes teams more competitive and has more than one league of football in the country not just teams who can be trash and suffer no consequences. Pro-rel is a MUST if mls wants to be a serious league
@ what does “competitive” mean?
Because if it has anything to do with y’know … competition than MLS is more competitive than any major European league because which team is gonna win is actually not a forgone conclusion (imagine that! Actual competition!)
@ btw the average age in MLS is lower than any of the big 5 European leagues Liga MX or really most any notable league in the world. I get eurosnob is your whole personality but when you’re yelling “delusional” the bare minimum would be to tune in to some games.
I know it’s causing an identity crisis for some hipsters that MLS is emerging as a good league. So many deeply held borderline religious beliefs are being challenged
No Pro / Rel kills leagues. Who knew?
No it doesnt
Is that why MLS is the fastest improving league in the world?
@kalmenbarkin5708 Money can buy a lot of things. But it can also a crash. MLS most likely will at some point at its current course.
@kalmenbarkin5708 by who and by what, who cares what the rest of the world think!! MLS needs to make it in America.. by your statement it just shows soccer is in a much sadder state
@@PoppinC-l3w it’s course of improving slowly and sustainably building infrastructure and academies from the ground up?
What exactly in MLS’ “trajectory” suggests a crash? Wishful thinking like “but I don’t like this structure” doesn’t count.