How to MAGICALLY finish every song you write
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2023
- Can you take the ring to Mt. Doom? Or will your song never leave the Shire?
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John Petrucci's new ToneMission cab sims that I used in this: tonemission.com
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MANS CRAZY! nah this is a really cool idea thanks
The great thing is that your video is structured exactly as you say songs should be structured. Good work. ;D
Well after minute 7 it's still the same: develop your theme and not side characters. I had to stop the video sorry.
Well after minute 7 it's still the same statement: develop your theme and not side characters. I had to stop the video there, sorry. The topic itselfvwould be very interesting.
Even though Petrucci wrote intro first, he was aware that there needs to be a pay off. Concept and structure is all that matters. I believe the reason why Trey is urging everyone to start at the end is because it is a safety net until you internalise those concepts, and when you do, you can change up your approach depending on a project, idea etc. And that why Petrucci is a master, he has all those concepts internalised and he can play with ideas however he wants.
Definitely, experienced songwriters can do whatever. _Petrucci laughs in Grammy award winner_
Great advice. Watching your videos always help me improve my songwriting. Thank you. 👍
This is one of the best videos on songwriting I've ever seen. Great work Trey.
Absolutely the best explanation and motivation we all needed. Thanks Trey!
The quality of the information you shared in this video is incredible
This was special ❤
This is great!
i love stopping work and watching Sherley's videos.
Such a headslapping moment this video is amazing. I am going to now have to take your courses as a thank. you.
This is an underrated video 🤌🏽 I love this!
My guy, this is gold. I love your gong show and the Friday livestream (and you've Eviserated me lol). But this, this is so good. Thanks my guy
Such an amazing video Trey
Great video, Trey!
Killer advice Trey!!
Finally someone talks about Peruvian Skies. I frickin love that song! 🤘I generally feel that Falling Into Infinity is actually an amazing record that just gets overlooked pretty often
Great video and a fantastic way of explaining this approach to writing. I totally agree with a lot of it!
I've been guilty myself of a too "linear" writing approach, thinking I would have to work my way from beginning to end and sometimes ending up writing a songs that seemed a little aimless or that started repeating themselves because that "character development" happened (or didn't happen) before I knew where to go, so I just circled musical redundancies.
Still haven't mastered that top down approach. But I do enjoy integrating it into my workflow so far and not unnecessarily forcing out unrelated new ideas like you described, just to keep it moving.
I've been doing this method. It was where I instinctually always went first. The hardest part for me has been writing the verses and figuring out the turn arounds.
I have struggled to even start writing a song but this made so much sense! Now I finally know where to start and where to go.
You deserved a subscribe! 😊
That's great explanation! Thanks
This video is a masterpiece.
Writing the final run of the song first is such a great approach. Thanks for the great idea Trey.
Damn dude the insight of this video is extremely effective
I've never thought about my song writing like this before..... But I can't believe why I haven't.... I mean, it's absolutely a no brainer.
Thanks for the slap upside the head Brother. I really appreciate your channel and advice.
Take care,
~Jonny5🥁
Dude this is like fucking gold dust!!! For ages now I’ve been stuck and I never thought of this perspective 😱🥰. Thank you pal!
Took me a few hard drives full of side quests and intros to get the backwards thing. Still relapsing from time to time ;) maybe I do have to take your course.... 🤔Excellent choice of words once again!
Oddly enough I usually write the chorus/verse first. then the intro/ending last.
That being said, this idea of figuring out where you are going first like a story is a really great idea! i'll have to try it sometimes!
Eu amo esse canal.
I'm glad you included footage from the greatest movie of all time - Walk Hard The Dewey Cox Story
That scene is burned into my subconscious, whenever I think I’m doing too much stuff in a song I always think of it
@@treyxaviermusic I have to think about my entire life before I write a song
This is very similar to how I wrote with my last band that is now dead sadly. When trying to do this myself I find that the biggest issue is deciding what the part actually is. I often have so many variations on a part/riff that I never settle for something that is the actual song, just suggestions for what could happen. I miss my bandmates telling me "nah that is good enough now let's continue on the next part after this".
I was thinking about this last week. Story board the song.
I loved this video dude. Aside from seeing loads of LOTR, I feel like this tactic is going to be super useful. Always good to have tools to turn to when you need a different approach. Thanks for the quality info as always man 🤘
Every day I have to keep reminding myself that the order I right the song in doesn’t have to be the order of the song itself 🤦♂️
Love the added effect of trailer music, particularly as it builds @8:35.
Thanks! Spent some time getting it right, I think it helped illustrate my point a bit too
I really like this. Instead of starting with a riff and trying to find variations to grow it, I think it can be better to write the most climactic version of it and then strip it down for it's build up.
You're trying really hard to lessem yours and our suffering on your song contest... But seriously, you're a poet and your metaphores are amazing. You can not really deliver a how to write a song better than you do. Thanks bro.
I've always framed songs as stories!
Trey Xavier, The Song Savior™
We always write the main riff. I say "write." One of us starts playing something, then everyone jumps in. That becomes the main riff of the song, and everything else comes later.
Trey: Deliver the ring to Mt. Doom first, then write the rest of the song aiming for the end.
Nik: How to Shirecore in 30 seconds!
6:30 am but here we fookin go
An idea for another video/short. Different kinds of outros. Something other than droning out.
As a beat producer, I actually do the same kind of thing where I produce as much as I can on an 8 or 16 bar loop, and when I don't see that it needs more, I then start arranging that loop into verses, choruses, etc.
I've never really thought about it like that for my non-hiphop/trap music, but I think I should start trying that out. Thanks Trey!
I wish writers in other styles would get hip to this idea, beat makers have been doing it for a long time and it's such a good way to go about it, even if you don't do it EXACTLY like that, it's such a smart thing to learn how to do
@@treyxaviermusic Absolutely! I've managed to crank out beat after beat using that kind of technique. I guess that's how professional artists get to produce more than an album's worth of actual songs within, say, a year. Could you imagine how much more good musical ideas could be out there that's been lost to bad songwriting choices/techniques. Interesting thought really.
this TN slaps HARD!
I like this idea and am excited to try it out to help finish some of my incomplete songs.
It did however get me thinking of exceptions to this rule that the ending shouldn't be a new part not related to the main theme of the song. There are some famous ones. Ref.the finale of Alice In Chains' "Would?"
Sent here by Sean from Rifshop and Vocal Academy!
Rough counting just now, I have over 300 songs in various states of 'initiation entropy" on my computer. I'm hoping to check this weekend to see if this method is enough to keep my OCD from wandering off into the paralysis-inducing fields of infinite possibility.
It’s not the worst place to be actually - you’ve got all the raw material you need. Now just go make some hard decisions
Inspiration is the One MacGuffin to rule them all...
Hey man, does the songwriting course ever go on sale? I was waiting for a Labor Day special… Thanks.
As a writer (words) I love these kinds of videos because they track 100%.
It’s crazy how much storytelling will transfer between mediums, you can really utilize the same basic skills in so many different places
4:10am good way to start the day.🤘🤘
Interesting... when I wrote my most successful song (Give You My Love), I came up with the ending first (long held note, 6/8 outro) and wrote the rest of the song just to get to that note.
Great perspective. Well explained. I'm interested in your opinion regarding bridges. Sometimes they are related to the main theme. Sometimes they are not. Both can be effective. So, is this a side-quest or something that gives the listener a chance to relax, build anticipation, or what?
That’s a great question - because the bridge is by definition sort of a break from the rest of the song, an intentional departure, it seems like it should be different - but it doesn’t mean unrelated, just a different perspective on the same story. It still needs to take us to the final destination, and it’s the trickiest thing because it’s now a new thing transitioning to one of the old parts, so you need a new way of getting there. But it’s still gotta be the same story
This was excellent! Would it be fair to say you are describing a “sonata” song arrangement?
Random comment, but it's funny. I think I originally discovered GearGods from your The Armed rig rundown, which was one of the most bizarre things to see. But man, the Armed have quickly become my favorite band over the last few years. Have you kept up with them, Trey?
I have a little bit, I think they're masters of hype and mystery, really really really good to study for top-notch marketing for a band
Meaningful character growth! Yes, you also described what's wrong with most movies today. And thank you for using Lord of the Rings as your example... except that Tom Bombadil comment. I'll forgive you... :)
THIS is good shit.
Maybe while I'm on vacation I'll finally release my first thing. It'll probably confuse people because it'll sound like it was recorded in 1968, but that's how I hear music. All theoretical of course.
There is no end
Trey: "what can i make a video about to show people that i got to hang out with John Petrucci....." 😉
hahaha I had already written most of this before I thought to include him, but hell if it wasn't perfect timing that the band was playing in town 2 days ago, and hell if I'm not gonna grab that opportunity hahahaha
10:51pm let’s go
Deus ex machina? You gettin' all faincy on us, Trey? Great advice here. I'll try it! My problem is I have notebooks full of lyrics but when I try to make a song out of them, they sound stupid to me. Or I'm too hard on myself? I don't know how to tell the difference. Any advice?
It might have to do with the syllabic stressing, like you're emphasizing awkward syllables within the words when you sing them out loud. When you're writing them, do you sing them? Do you hear them as lyrics with rhythm or do you just write words? It's possible you've just been writing poetry - the main difference is that lyrics have a specific rhythmic phrasing. Try writing something new and singing it against any kind of beat as you go, so you can hear where everything falls
@@treyxaviermusic Great idea. I've been writing poetry! Thanks for the help, Treymond!
I get my inspiration from Queen 💪😎🎸
Very interesting take on songwriting, thanks, that's something to think about!
I'm playing solo with my Boss RC-300 for my TH-cam-Channel at the moment, so my options for songwriting are a bit limited, but I've learned to use this limitation as an asset (was a years-long journey ;-)).
To close the circle to your video: With live-looping I only have the option to ad (simple speaking, and to fall back to the intro-riff), so I try to keep the loop small at the beginning and make the song bigger and bigger to get back to the intro. With the inspiration from your video I may find some of adjustments for my songwriting.
Here's an example: th-cam.com/video/tWCmS4yu4tY/w-d-xo.html
The movies may have been more cohesive without Tom, but the books woulnd't have been as whimsical without him, also, the Council of Elrond scene was a lot more fun with them bickering about whether the ring should be handed off to a god who would lose it out of disinterest. The movies are a much more compelling analog for songwriting. Tolkien would spend three pages describing a single landscape.
Yeah I actually HATED reading the books hahaha, it was just too much detail. Stuff that you can just SEE in a movie so there's no reason to describe it
@@treyxaviermusic I'm 33 and didn't watch the movies until recently, so I was in the unique position to, as an adult in the 2020's, read the books before watching the movies. Holy shit were those books hard to get through. I did like them, but each book could've been a couple hundred pages shorter. I didn't even finish Return of the King before just breaking down and watching the movie for it. The amount of vocabulary I had to learn just to understand his landscape descriptions was crazy. Like, Tolkien, my guy, pinch it off.
Good advise. When they make a movie they actually film the ending first!! I never thought about that......hmmmmmmmm.
I'm not sure if they FILM it first, but I think a lot of script writers will write it first, or at least know what is going to happen in it
Like Memento?
@@aaronwentz3190 that movie rules
Sorry but i don’t play power metal lol, i prefer create the foundation first and surprising myself with the ending. I create my story with the beginning and i don’t really know 100% what will be the ending and sometimes i am: "Oh my god this is too great!!!" But nobody works the same way and that’s ok!
I can't believe you called Petrucci a horse 😢
Yes
9:22 ily for this joke 😂
So you're telling me that the reason I'm not finishing the song is cause I'm fiddling with mix EQ instead of rerecording the rough verse tracks?!
That is one of the many side quests that plague our hero
what's your obsession with LOR?
actually I'm not that into it, but it is a story with a very clear journey and end goal, so I talk about it a lot as a metaphor for songwriting and storytelling in general
Hmm, this could be a potent antidote to prog salad. Doing some good thinking Trey!
Potent Antidote sounds like a prog salad band name hahahaha
@@treyxaviermusic lmao it does. I can see the vague, ethereal-ish spacey looking album art and band logo now
@@treyxaviermusic and hear the vague, ethereal-ish, spacey sounding music lmao
I’ll add laziness to not finishing my songs too and why I wouldn’t have gotten the ring to Mordor. 😂
laziness isn't real, only priorities
How I think when song writing: Imagine you aren't the one who wrote the song. You just randomly heard it on the radio or somehing. Ok, how quickly are you changing the channel? How should the song go, so you wouldn't?
That’s a good way to think about it
🤌
There is no right or wrong way to write a song
You are talking about all Disney movies. All side quests and no story LOL.
Heresy!! Repent and write a Tom Bombadil now!!
I'm not sure this is helpful at all, as the "don't write the intro first" wasn't. I am not a super accomplished songwriter, but I wrote some complete songs and I think both approaches you presented would hinder my process. The best advice in this video for me is the sidequest, you don't need to write a thousand ideas, if you have 3 musical ideas that fit together, you most likely already have a complete song.
I'll say this - there's a ton of different ways to write a song, but it certainly can't hurt to try it like this, right? What's the worst thing that could happen?
Generally good advice. Songs are progressions that require movement. The ending is the resolve.
The average listener often needs a breather or a hint with what’s happening next and the outro brings them in for a landing.
Unresolved endings can occasionally be used for tension, especially if placed in an album sequence. Not all movies have a happy ending.
I still think Disco Sucks !
Hey man, brilliant conent. Your video gets a "like" from me. :)
But I disagree with you. Not on the method of writing the ending first. Worth trying and I write all of my songs with many different approaches including just one word that enters my head or one melody or even an intro idea or a simple concept. But I disagree with there needing to be a conclusion in the story you're telling within a song. I like the relation you are making between songs and films. But you definitely do not have to conclude or make the listener feel like there is a conclusion in the story you're telling within a song.
In music if I go to the five (V) chord by theory it feels like there is tension and it wants to resolve to the one (I) chord.
But lyrics, I do not believe are the same. You can tell a story lyrically and take the listener through the woods and over the hills. And teleport them literally to where you were, but you do not have to make them feel like they leave or return home. Or that there is a conclusion to the story within the lyrics. Let's say the lyrics are talking about a relationship that went bad. Well it doesn't have to conclude with "Fuck you." It doesn't have to conclude with "I forgive you." It doesn't even have to conclude with "Hey, we were both wrong. Let's just go our separate ways." It can just be a story about a bad relationship. And it can even end on something very vague lyrically. Something that is more expressing a feeling rather than a part of the story.
How every time you do all crazy things man ?I'm impressed LOL .Very helpful
I don't sleep when I should
@@treyxaviermusic I'm Greek I can relate.
The movie is better without Tom Bombadil.
For me it's the complete lack of skill plus talent.