Nice presentation. I haven't seen a drum switch for a few years and have to relearn it everytime. Maybe this will latch onto a corner of my cranium.. Colin ;-)
Yeehaw!!! I got the right one Stan!!! I had the "pretty sure" button pressed, but now I have the "Fur Sure, totally awesome!" switch locked down, you are the best my man. After just hoping for a bit of advice on what to buy, you got ahead of the game and provided me with a file to cross check when it comes to wiring things up, EPIC. You are one smart cookie and just saved yourself from a conversation with a stump, LOL! I did do heaps of research before calling in "the cleaner" to mop up my brain fog BTW, I've got melons(and all types of seedlings) started up in my spare bathroom all nice and toasty, and you have certainly earned a "Grande" sized bag of dried melon strips. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Please know if there is ever anything I can do to assist you, I will be down in about 6 hours, no sweat! Seriously, I'd love to come and sweep up your shop or inventory your shelves for you. Aloha...Chuck
Hello Stan, My name is John. Thank you for all the great videos that you have put out. I truly enjoy them. I have a 110 Volt single phase Dewalt Drill press and have been very interested in making it reversible and variable speed. I guess now to my question, can one of the VFD units that you have shown in an earlier video be used in a 110 setup and would it go between the drum switch and the source or between to drum switch and the motor. Thanks again for the great information!
Very good video, I know this is a long time from when u posted this video, I bought this at a flee market 20 years back. Never used it tell now it is a Furnas controller R1143 says it is for 115v and 240 v ac. Can not read thi design in the cover, want to put it on my 120v lathe, can’t find a wiring design font Hope u might have 1 Thanks
It would have helped a lot more, if You had actually showed this with a motor and a drum switch. There are tons of these videos out there, explaing on paper how it's done. Is it the same if I have an induction motor, and a starter switch type?
I'm so glad that I watch this I actually have two drums which is laying up in my garage one was 110 volt single phase for an old Wagner repulsion motor I still have to determine the layout of the wiring inside it. In the second one was 2 0 8 - 230 so you know it's old three phase criminals 1960 ish Logan 1821 I just bought a Leeson 1 horse motor that I want to run on 220 single phase because it maxes out at 15 amps on 110 so I don't want that. So the trim switch that had been running the single phase repulsion motor if it's designed in the orientation that you depict in your groin can I run 220 threw that or or would it probably be not rated for that? I don't know maybe I'd be better off just buying a new one I know I'm going to electrocute myself I can what kind of Robotics all day long but it when it comes to high voltage I'm stupid and it's really ridiculous because it's so simple if you step back and look at it.
WOW major flashback there! I used to love going to Chuck E Cheese as a kid just so I could set the high score on Pole Position. :-) I didn't think most single phase motors could even run in reverse? Doesn't it take a special class? I know some single phase motors are set with an offset brush so they will start running in the proper direction and I don't think those are reversible.
Most single phase motors can be reversed. Problem is you may have to disassemble the motor to get at the starter winding. Changing the starter winding is the key. Some motors will bring it out to the terminal block so it is easy. the motor tag will show that.
Hey! Grrreat Explanation sir! Bravo!! If I'd found your clip long ago, it'd saved me some time!! BUTT, we figured it out by trial & error, w/ emphasis on error, eventually after tripping a breaker several times; Safe-Tee 1st! Glad you shared the fact that there's 2 different types drum switches for 1phase & 3phase, I didn't know that, so thanks again. Take care from Tn. Ps, I added a link to your clip under my own clip.
I have a question. I'm no electrician and I've got a 50-year old multi-operation woodworking machine with three 3-phase motors (one for the circular saw, one for the planer and one for the router), all connected to the same 380V power line cable. Each motor has its own switch - the three of them being 16-terminals switches; but only the router one uses three positions (Slow speed-OFF-High speed) and has 6 terminals connected. I need to change the saw's switch because it keeps arcing and won't start the saw more than half the time (the contacts are pitted, probably due to the fact they are installed right inside the body of the machine and near the saw, with no protection whatsoever against dust. Arcing + wood dust = a recipe for fire hazard). Each switch is connected to the other ones so that each motor can work while the two others are off. Since only three terminals are used on the switches for the saw and the planer, my question is this: do I need this exact model (16 terminals) of switch to replace the one on the saw or is a model with 8 or 12 terminals enough? Those switches are quite pricey and I only need "on-off" on that one since the saw doesn't need reverse or two speeds; but I still need to have each motor working independantly from the other two. I have a hard time finding information on the net about which model to use for which application. I hope my explanation was clear enough... No need to say, I'm planning on re-installing all of them in a sealed enclosure outside the body of the machine. Less hassle when needing to investigate, and probably a longer life span for the replacement switch(es) - I plan on changing all of them eventually, but as I said, those things are quite pricey.
Howdy, did you just read my mind? Im working on my SB lathe and it came with an old GE 1hp single phase reversing motor ... The reversing porting is a mechanical relay attached to the side of the motor to be wired separately with the drum switch. Ive got the motor running with new capacitors im just a little stumped at how the reversing relay works. A cool video to make would be to show the entire schematic with the start/run coils, capacitors and switch all laid out. Ill probably make a video soon showing me working on the problem. Thanks for the info.
So if I just switch the L1 and L2, all others wire into the the same spots. L1=White(pwr)+goes with Motor red (Rd) and L2=Black(pwr)+goes with Motor white(Wt.) and the Blue #5 is in the center pole, is that right? That's how I read the diagram to get it to run CW + CCW respectively, is that correct? I'm pretty sure I've got it, just one last check...ya know. Thanks Stan...Aloha, Chuck
If you had to, couldn't you use the 3ph drum switch on 120v 1ph, but obviously NOT the other way around? Seems like L2 & L3 on the 3ph are doing basically the same or similar thing that the 1ph is doing only if you were just using 120volts w/ the 1ph. B/c since I'm just using 120v, I only use 4 of the 6 terminals. I just noticed that & thinkin' out loud a little. So that might save you a trip to the store or having to order another switch.
@ John McDonnell, I cant reply to your post for some reason, you cant use a VFD with a single phase motor. you would need to switch out the motor, buy a VFD and install a control, is this drill press worth that?
Level3-RC Shadon HKW See how I did that? I typed up your TH-cam handle with a "+" sign in front of it and then you are sent a message on your drop down that someone has commented to you...he has changed his settings though, but he who snoozes, loses :D
Hello again. looks like we have a few things in common base on your above pic. need help though. below I mentioned I am using 115v service and the marathon motor has the 5 wires shown on the schematic like this: yellow/white tie together black brown blue Where in the hell do these go on this 12 terminal(numbered 1-12) 3 position barrel switch? electronics for dummies was no help. Thanks for any guidance
Hey. Bought a milling machine off craigslist and forward/reverse switch doesn't work correctly. The switch is a 3 position 12 terminal 380vac. Pretty sure it is wired incorrectly but got a new switch just in case (ebay cheaphy but same switch). can't find any info on the web. I am set-up for 115V and the motor has 5 wires coming out not including the power source wires. All 12 terminals are wired as it is now so I figure this is what I need to follow. Switch worked in forward and stop but in reverse it goes in forward. Any thoughts?
Hi Mike, I would need the wiring diagram for both the motor and drum switch to make an informed suggestion. It is only going to be a matter of switching one wire to make it work correctly, but I cant tell you which one without more information.
Okay now I'm totally confused because I just took apart my drum switch from an old Logan 820 and it was single phase and it's exactly like you said it shouldn't be so I'm at a loss
Your Logan probably has a drum switch manufactured by the Furnas Co which was popular in the '50s...and closes different terminals than shown here. Mine does anyway. Use this diagram instead. Sorry, TH-cam is no letting me paste the diagram here. Try to Google Furnas drum switches. You probably can find the right diagram to use.
OK, here's a Logan instruction manual. Wiring diagrams for the rotary drum switch are on the last page. vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2093/22616.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,-176,792
If you have the R-1143A Furnas rotary switch use the diagram on page 16 which uses a jumper between terminal 3 and 5 vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2093/22616.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,-176,792
hello again. here are the pics of the motor schematic, switch and wires at switch location from motor. It is already wired for 115v. thanks for any input. plus.google.com/105027075712320300951/posts/D4xjhzZCPDr
Hi Mike, Your black and red wires are your "flop" wires, these need to be alternated for fwd - rev operation, as far as your drum switch goes, I just cant tell what the pole positions are from the picture, I'm sure the information is there, but I cant read Chinese. If there is a terminal chart showing terminal numbers and "X's" and "O's" for the pole positions, I searched for HZ-5 20/4 and couldn't come up with a pole chart, that would be extremely helpful. In the absence of this, you will need a means of checking continuity, draw three diagrams (one for each switch position) draw in your terminal numbers for each, connect the terminals with a line for those that have continuity and leave open for the ones that have no continuity. Has this switch worked on this machine before? I am hoping you have the single phase version.
Thank you much for the info. You should check out the manual for this milling machine...a Chinese work of art. I guess I am not understanding why there are 12 terminals instead of 6. I have figured out the pole positions for 6 terminals just not the 12 terminal i.e. why are there several jumper wires required? Is this possibly the 115v wiring requirement?
Did you end up figuring this out? I also have a marathon motor with red and black flop wires. My electrician told me a drum switch would not do the job and tried to sell me a $3200 contraption to do the switching. Id love to see a diagram if you have one.
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Nice presentation. I haven't seen a drum switch for a few years and have to relearn it everytime. Maybe this will latch onto a corner of my cranium..
Colin ;-)
Yeehaw!!! I got the right one Stan!!! I had the "pretty sure" button pressed, but now I have the "Fur Sure, totally awesome!" switch locked down, you are the best my man. After just hoping for a bit of advice on what to buy, you got ahead of the game and provided me with a file to cross check when it comes to wiring things up, EPIC. You are one smart cookie and just saved yourself from a conversation with a stump, LOL! I did do heaps of research before calling in "the cleaner" to mop up my brain fog
BTW, I've got melons(and all types of seedlings) started up in my spare bathroom all nice and toasty, and you have certainly earned a "Grande" sized bag of dried melon strips. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Please know if there is ever anything I can do to assist you, I will be down in about 6 hours, no sweat! Seriously, I'd love to come and sweep up your shop or inventory your shelves for you. Aloha...Chuck
Hello Stan, My name is John. Thank you for all the great videos that you have put out. I truly enjoy them. I have a 110 Volt single phase Dewalt Drill press and have been very interested in making it reversible and variable speed. I guess now to my question, can one of the VFD units that you have shown in an earlier video be used in a 110 setup and would it go between the drum switch and the source or between to drum switch and the motor. Thanks again for the great information!
Very good video, I know this is a long time from when u posted this video, I bought this at a flee market
20 years back. Never used it tell now it is a Furnas controller R1143 says it is for 115v and 240 v ac.
Can not read thi design in the cover, want to put it on my 120v lathe, can’t find a wiring design font
Hope u might have 1
Thanks
It would have helped a lot more, if You had actually showed this with a motor and a drum switch. There are tons of these videos out there, explaing on paper how it's done.
Is it the same if I have an induction motor, and a starter switch type?
I'm so glad that I watch this I actually have two drums which is laying up in my garage one was 110 volt single phase for an old Wagner repulsion motor I still have to determine the layout of the wiring inside it. In the second one was 2 0 8 - 230 so you know it's old three phase criminals 1960 ish Logan 1821 I just bought a Leeson 1 horse motor that I want to run on 220 single phase because it maxes out at 15 amps on 110 so I don't want that.
So the trim switch that had been running the single phase repulsion motor if it's designed in the orientation that you depict in your groin can I run 220 threw that or or would it probably be not rated for that? I don't know maybe I'd be better off just buying a new one I know I'm going to electrocute myself I can what kind of Robotics all day long but it when it comes to high voltage I'm stupid and it's really ridiculous because it's so simple if you step back and look at it.
WOW major flashback there! I used to love going to Chuck E Cheese as a kid just so I could set the high score on Pole Position. :-) I didn't think most single phase motors could even run in reverse? Doesn't it take a special class? I know some single phase motors are set with an offset brush so they will start running in the proper direction and I don't think those are reversible.
Most single phase motors can be reversed. Problem is you may have to disassemble the motor to get at the starter winding. Changing the starter winding is the key. Some motors will bring it out to the terminal block so it is easy. the motor tag will show that.
Hey! Grrreat Explanation sir! Bravo!! If I'd found your clip long ago, it'd saved me some time!! BUTT, we figured it out by trial & error, w/ emphasis on error, eventually after tripping a breaker several times; Safe-Tee 1st! Glad you shared the fact that there's 2 different types drum switches for 1phase & 3phase, I didn't know that, so thanks again. Take care from Tn. Ps, I added a link to your clip under my own clip.
I have a question. I'm no electrician and I've got a 50-year old multi-operation woodworking machine with three 3-phase motors (one for the circular saw, one for the planer and one for the router), all connected to the same 380V power line cable. Each motor has its own switch - the three of them being 16-terminals switches; but only the router one uses three positions (Slow speed-OFF-High speed) and has 6 terminals connected. I need to change the saw's switch because it keeps arcing and won't start the saw more than half the time (the contacts are pitted, probably due to the fact they are installed right inside the body of the machine and near the saw, with no protection whatsoever against dust. Arcing + wood dust = a recipe for fire hazard).
Each switch is connected to the other ones so that each motor can work while the two others are off. Since only three terminals are used on the switches for the saw and the planer, my question is this: do I need this exact model (16 terminals) of switch to replace the one on the saw or is a model with 8 or 12 terminals enough?
Those switches are quite pricey and I only need "on-off" on that one since the saw doesn't need reverse or two speeds; but I still need to have each motor working independantly from the other two. I have a hard time finding information on the net about which model to use for which application.
I hope my explanation was clear enough... No need to say, I'm planning on re-installing all of them in a sealed enclosure outside the body of the machine. Less hassle when needing to investigate, and probably a longer life span for the replacement switch(es) - I plan on changing all of them eventually, but as I said, those things are quite pricey.
I'll take some pics and get em to you. thanks for your effort in trying to help us electronic dummies.
Howdy, did you just read my mind? Im working on my SB lathe and it came with an old GE 1hp single phase reversing motor ... The reversing porting is a mechanical relay attached to the side of the motor to be wired separately with the drum switch. Ive got the motor running with new capacitors im just a little stumped at how the reversing relay works. A cool video to make would be to show the entire schematic with the start/run coils, capacitors and switch all laid out. Ill probably make a video soon showing me working on the problem. Thanks for the info.
Always glad to hear my vids are useful. Good luck with your project.
Thanks for sharing this with us.
So if I just switch the L1 and L2, all others wire into the the same spots. L1=White(pwr)+goes with Motor red (Rd) and L2=Black(pwr)+goes with Motor white(Wt.) and the Blue #5 is in the center pole, is that right? That's how I read the diagram to get it to run CW + CCW respectively, is that correct? I'm pretty sure I've got it, just one last check...ya know. Thanks Stan...Aloha, Chuck
If you had to, couldn't you use the 3ph drum switch on 120v 1ph, but obviously NOT the other way around? Seems like L2 & L3 on the 3ph are doing basically the same or similar thing that the 1ph is doing only if you were just using 120volts w/ the 1ph. B/c since I'm just using 120v, I only use 4 of the 6 terminals. I just noticed that & thinkin' out loud a little. So that might save you a trip to the store or having to order another switch.
You show a 220v 1ph, what's the difference for 110v 1ph for a duel voltage motor?
@ John McDonnell,
I cant reply to your post for some reason, you cant use a VFD with a single phase motor. you would need to switch out the motor, buy a VFD and install a control, is this drill press worth that?
Level3-RC Shadon HKW See how I did that? I typed up your TH-cam handle with a "+" sign in front of it and then you are sent a message on your drop down that someone has commented to you...he has changed his settings though, but he who snoozes, loses :D
Knolltop Farms Bam!
thanks that helps me out too.
what goes on the 3rd connection terminal between l1 and l2 on the left side of your single phase drawings
Hi Billy,
That would be your "flop" terminal, so you can easily switch your (blue in this case) wire to make your CCW or CW adjustments.
Hello again. looks like we have a few things in common base on your above pic. need help though. below I mentioned I am using 115v service and the marathon motor has the 5 wires shown on the schematic like this:
yellow/white tie together
black
brown
blue
Where in the hell do these go on this 12 terminal(numbered 1-12) 3 position barrel switch? electronics for dummies was no help.
Thanks for any guidance
hi
i have a single phase drum motor. i need help. What is the capacitor value to start the motor?
Hey. Bought a milling machine off craigslist and forward/reverse switch doesn't work correctly. The switch is a 3 position 12 terminal 380vac. Pretty sure it is wired incorrectly but got a new switch just in case (ebay cheaphy but same switch). can't find any info on the web. I am set-up for 115V and the motor has 5 wires coming out not including the power source wires. All 12 terminals are wired as it is now so I figure this is what I need to follow. Switch worked in forward and stop but in reverse it goes in forward. Any thoughts?
Hi Mike,
I would need the wiring diagram for both the motor and drum switch to make an informed suggestion. It is only going to be a matter of switching one wire to make it work correctly, but I cant tell you which one without more information.
Okay now I'm totally confused because I just took apart my drum switch from an old Logan 820 and it was single phase and it's exactly like you said it shouldn't be so I'm at a loss
Your Logan probably has a drum switch manufactured by the Furnas Co which was popular in the '50s...and closes different terminals than shown here. Mine does anyway. Use this diagram instead. Sorry, TH-cam is no letting me paste the diagram here. Try to Google Furnas drum switches. You probably can find the right diagram to use.
OK, here's a Logan instruction manual. Wiring diagrams for the rotary drum switch are on the last page. vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2093/22616.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,-176,792
If you have the R-1143A Furnas rotary switch use the diagram on page 16 which uses a jumper between terminal 3 and 5
vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2093/22616.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,-176,792
should be page 16 on here:
vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2093/24925.pdf
hello again. here are the pics of the motor schematic, switch and wires at switch location from motor. It is already wired for 115v. thanks for any input.
plus.google.com/105027075712320300951/posts/D4xjhzZCPDr
Hi Mike,
Your black and red wires are your "flop" wires, these need to be alternated for fwd - rev operation, as far as your drum switch goes, I just cant tell what the pole positions are from the picture, I'm sure the information is there, but I cant read Chinese. If there is a terminal chart showing terminal numbers and "X's" and "O's" for the pole positions, I searched for HZ-5 20/4 and couldn't come up with a pole chart, that would be extremely helpful.
In the absence of this, you will need a means of checking continuity, draw three diagrams (one for each switch position) draw in your terminal numbers for each, connect the terminals with a line for those that have continuity and leave open for the ones that have no continuity.
Has this switch worked on this machine before? I am hoping you have the single phase version.
Thank you much for the info. You should check out the manual for this milling machine...a Chinese work of art. I guess I am not understanding why there are 12 terminals instead of 6. I have figured out the pole positions for 6 terminals just not the 12 terminal i.e. why are there several jumper wires required? Is this possibly the 115v wiring requirement?
Mike Palmer Yes, you may have to make some crossover jumpers, I am thinking this switch is multi function, thus the 12 terminals.
Did you end up figuring this out? I also have a marathon motor with red and black flop wires. My electrician told me a drum switch would not do the job and tried to sell me a $3200 contraption to do the switching. Id love to see a diagram if you have one.