Corrupting The Doctrine of Heavenly Mother - General Conference Commentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ย. 2024
- Have We Tried This Before? Same Results?
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Elder Renlund confirms first that we have a Heavenly Mother. That is the doctrine. But then shows how "speculation" on that doctrine can take us too far as it has for several. Is this what has happened previously in gospel history? Is this a repeating pattern? Is it impossible for us in mortality to worship a Heavenly Mother? We talk about "Asherah" in the Old Testament and the Tree of Life in Lehi's Dream.
Trees Represent Women Episode (Women & Veils) - • LDS Women and Veils- ...
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#HeavenlyMother #ElderRenlund #GeneralConference
It didn't even occur to me to change practices. When I pray to Heavenly Father I just assume she's in on it.
So do I. Just like when I called home as a missionary, my mom listened in on every one of my conversations. I also think that She blesses us in Her own way
She is. Men and women are designed to be as one. And one flesh
@@sarahaas183 BINGO!
As I have grown in the gospel and in my own age I have come to understand that it takes TWO to be exalted and that means it takes a father and a mother.. just as our ROLES in this life are different that doesn’t mean that they are not EQUAL. On earth as it is in heaven is the pattern.. let’s not get stuck in this power struggle of men and women.. the temple gives the most correct pattern where the Priesthood is concerned..
Here, here!
I’m perfectly fine with the man being head of household.
@@ladyjade6446 That's actually quite progressive thinking these days Jade. Feminist Mormon Housewives won't be satisfied until they can hold and bear the Priesthood, and therefore be eligible to be called to offices such as Bishop. The problem: they don't understand that breaking the covenant attached to the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood (Doc. & Cov. 84) is the second unforgiveable/unpardonable sin. Generally, women have greater faith than men, and are more obedient to the Commandments. Maybe it's not fair, but that being the case, men need the support of the women in the life, especially if they are blessed to have a wife, for her to be his "helpmeet" not just in physical and emotional things, but also in spiritual things. "The man is not without the woman, nor the woman without the man, in The Lord."
I'm beginning to think we're headed for spiritual madness because of pride and envy. I want my husband to take charge protecting our family even though I know I can and he assures our children don't disrespect their mother. Why would I want to take over? No thanks.
Being the simpleton that I admit to being, my parents taught me that when I honor my father, I am also honoring my mother, as the two of them had stewardship over me. My mother knew my father could not fulfill his role without her quiet, reverent and sometimes corrective support and counsel. She could not fulfill her divine role without his reciprocation of the same. I believe that our Heavenly Parents probably have a similar relationship, although it is a perfect one. I quess what I'm saying is what doctrine we have concerning Heavenly Mother is enough for me. When more is given following the revelatory pattern the Lord uses, I'll look into it.
If that’s true, would you be fine if we talked about Heavenly Mother in all of our gospel convos only? Should be good because we know HF is still there even though we hardly mention him right?
@@TheRestorationTable I don't have too many gospel conversations without mentioning Heavenly Father. Not clear what your point is. That's the simpleton in me.
Seems like you are looking for “fairness” when truth and commandment has already been given.
Bingo, you are so correct in my opinion!!! I want the ideologist to leave us alone, and all the faiths, it is the same destroy and conquer that all of the socialist head for, they are so miserable that when they see as pure as anything can be on this earth, they must start a WAR on all others tender and kind systems. Heavenly Father as I have always understood it from the time I found/introduced to this faith is that he HAS KEPT HER NAME OUT OF IT ALL< OUT OF RESPECT FOR HER AS HE KNEW THAT THE WORLD SICKNESS WOULD TRY TO DESTROY HER IMAGE AND PURITY, HE WAS/IS PROTECTING HIS ETERNAL WIFE AS SHOULD BE.
What more do they want to know about you have two parents . You have a mother and a father . What doctrine more do you need ? Gezz
I'm sure that our Heavenly Mother is "Glorious Beyond Description" just like our Heavenly Father and Jesus are as described by mortals that have seen them (like Joseph Smith). I personally think Heavenly Father keeps our Heavenly Mother hidden from the world largely because he loves her and wants to protect her from the profanity and cursing of the world like when people curse God and Jesus. My earthly mother and wife are awesome, I'm sure our Heavenly Mother is just amazing! I hope to see my Heavenly Parents again after I leave mortality!
Thank you for this comment, that is exactly what we think as well. 😊
My thoughts exactly!
Hmm. I like to think of Her as fierce and strong, yet with a perfect love. Since they are equals I would hope they came to this decision together.
@@kayyeaman7071 yes, I know they are in perfect unity!!! Hopeful, someday, I pray I will be in completed unity with them
That is speculation. We’ve just been cautioned against speculation.
Since I was first met by the Elders (and my mom and dad invited them for supper) back in 1976(?), I accepted the FACT that we have a Heavenly Mother... No doubt there... Anyway, I always had a problem with the Brazilians worshipping "Nossa Senhora Aparecida" (Our Lady Aparecida) in place of the Lord. Even forcing ALL businesses to close shop to "honor the Lady"....
For two years back then I kept the Book of Mormon given to me by Elder Mark Wayne Sorensen in Sao Paulo, Brazil. Then, my fiancée (my sweet, beautiful wife for 40 years), was introduced by me to this "intriguing Book" - which teaches so many things different from what the Marxist catholic priests were forcing down our throats.
*Note: Liberation theology is a Christian theological approach emphasizing the liberation of the oppressed. In certain contexts, it engages socio-economic analyses, with "social concern for the poor and political liberation for oppressed peoples."* We were baptized in the Church in 1981, and never looked back. Meanwhile, these Marxists keep busy at work in Brazil with CRT, and other false religious doctrines. However, this is another topic.
I think many scholars in the Church have become more influenced by worldly philosophy than by the writings of the prophets. I have noticed over the last 30 years that these same scholars have distanced themselves from Hugh Nibley, for instance, because he challenged worldly philosophy instead of trying to accommodate it or "make nice" with it. There is revelation and there is the philosophy of men, but many scholars appear unwilling to draw that distinction.
I think, Greg, that your perception of modern Church scholars is right on point. I have been cooling toward much of this scholarship in recent years because of its increasing use of progressive jargon and something very close to embracing secular reasoning regarding spiritual matters. This very spirit of progressivism has clearly entered the Church schools. I wonder if members are even aware of this.
Your concerns raised here are all too valid!
Hugh Nibley was VERY progressive. I've heard myself from his own lips very clear belief in such things as the idea that we've overpopulated the earth, that the notion of private property is a modern aberration, that our forests mustn't be cut down, and pretty much everything about the economics of socialism. But you didn't dare disagree with him in class. He was a fairly grumpy guy.
@@marcusrhodes1318 I've read much the same from such volumes as Brother Brigham Challenges the Saints, for instance. He understood the gospel differently than I do, but that is not what I was referring to about Nibley. He challenged the anti-Mormon crowd and its nay-sayers in such a fashion as the more modern-day scholar would never dare. This is what I am talking about.
I am an LDS woman, born in Salt Lake City in 1955. Knowledge of a Heavenly Mother was common, at least in the Ward that I grew up in. We were simply told that Father in Heaven loved her so much, that he didn't want her to become common to us, didn't want her name to be defiled as His often is.
That was, and is, enough for me.
Just want to also say, that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were two of the greatest true proponents of women who ever lived. Sadly, today, many members of the Church have a very limited understanding of Church history.
The gospel was restored to the earth by revelation. Do we believe it or not? We don't get to decide to change it.
I appreciate your stand. Thank you.
I was born in 1955, great year!
These two "great proponents of women" caused great heartache with the doctrine of polygamy. They suspended the RS when the women spoke out against this horrific practice. The Patriarchy of the LDS Church is so threatened by women that they came up with a flimsy excuse of why Heavenly mother shouldn't be talked about. They are still afraid of women, so they keep their foot on their necks. The truth of Heavenly Mother is hidden in pride and Patriarchy. Male control. Fear and repression. These are all antithetical to the ideas taught by the Savior. This monolithic bureaurocracy, which thew LDS church has become, has become an Idol.
@@actuallywhatimeant2583 Wow, you are really gaslighting there. Did Joseph Smith tell us not to talk about Heavenly Mother? I don't recall that being part of the discussion. You were told an apocryphal/made up story about why we shouldn't mention her and you swallowed it whole. Did Joseph Smith tell you that? No, he did not. Think back to when you first heard it and who told you. Probably the same person that told me that they didn't eat soup b/c it was a hot drink. True story. LDS culture just makes stuff up to negate something they are uncomfortable with i.e. The blacks were the decendants of Ham.
Sit down
Thank you for affirming that the Doctrine is about timing and Order. I believe our Heavenly Parents are the perfect team, no power struggle between Them. I believe They want us to focus on Christ and how we can progress towards Them through applying what Christ’s Atonement provides. I loved that April General Conference started with the Tabernacle Choir singing Love Is Spoken Here. What we do know is love is at it’s best in Their Home, I believe our best preparation for hastening our understanding on the doctrine on Heavenly Mother is by practising our love for Them by following Christ in our homes and all our relationships. Is our ability to understand be firm and unshaken in our faith in Them rooted in our ability to follow Christ and the teachings that we receive through The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and applying it in our daily life.
GOOD SENSE👍🏻💗
@@hazelwalker6570 More is to be revealed. It's one area where exercising faith is appropriate
🙏🏼🤍🕊
@@hazelwalker6570 Yes They are all the perfect team.
@@guardianangel9517 Yes faith and obedience are complicated enough for our progressive learning. We can see why it is important to focus on Christ He knows the way, and for us it is complicated enough to have love at home and within family.
When I had just joined the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints, I was newly baptized in the church, i didn't know about that truth ,I first heard about it from some pastor of pentacost church and this is what he said , that members of Our church believe that there is a heavenly mother, and he quoted it from some book titled anti mormon. That brew my mind away , and I ran to the missionaries and asked them ,do we have heavenly mother? , they were like what do you think? ,am like I don't know what to think .
They encouraged me to pray about it with real intent, which I did , and from that time I knelt on my knees and I approched heavenly father with that same question I asked the missionaries in the name of Jesus Christ , I lelt the place where I was kneeling with a confirmation that yes we have heavenly mother , I felt very peaceful , and warm feelings filled my heart and my mind was cleared up and I felt very happy ,joyfull, all the doubts flew away. For me I know we have heavenly mother and heavenly father ,there is nothing that can change that ,it's the truth for me.
Thanks for sharing - I felt your happiness in your word.
My favorite comment 💜
When I was six or seven I asked my dad why we didn’t talk about our heavenly mother. My father thought for a minute and asked me, do you remember how some of our neighbors say Gods name, and Jesus Christ’s name as profanity and not in a loving way ( we had already talked about that), and I said “yes”. Well, maybe our Father in Heaven doesn’t want your heavenly mother’s name used in that way. I know I wouldn’t want some one using your mother’s name in a mean or filthy way.
I was young, but i have never forgotten how he took the time to teach me. Our heavenly mothers are sacred and loved by our Father in Heaven. God has set up how we pray and who to pray to. We will learn more when we return to our heavenly parents.
I would like to think that, since she's as celestial and all knowing and perfect as he is, perhaps she was in on the decision making. I don't think she needs Father in Heaven to protect her from anything.
@@kayyeaman7071 I'm sure she is a very powerful woman. I know many of our sisters have that same quality now. We all haven't different gifts. I'm not married but I know on the eternities I will have a wonderful husband like our father in heaven.
Why did you say it as a plural word? "heavenly mothers are"
@@amandadangerfieldpiano our Heavenly Father has a celestial marriage in the highest degree. He has more than one wife in his family. There are many mothers. You and I could be from the same mother, or a different one, but we are still sisters and in God’s family. If we want to live with our Heavenly Parents again we too will live with a marriage of plural wives. It took me a while to accept and understand this, but it is only one of many laws we will need to learn and accept to gain the goal we want. We also must have faith in Gods plan. Our faith to accept the laws given will determine what degree of glory we will live in for the eternities. If I am faithful and love the Savior, but will not live the law of consecration, or celestial marriage in its entirety, or any new laws God may give us, than God will place us in the kingdom where we will be happy. Micah English has a wonderful channel and hundreds of lessons taken from the Prophets and apostles you can learn from. His channel is The II . Also : Limnah (by Joseph) has some papers that explain plural marriage. Go to any of the Old Prophets, and those early in our dispensation and they all teach the principle as well.
@@lynneb.2357 Hmm. Do all of the videos have comments turned off?
One of my favorite questions, answered by Hugh Nibley, and especially important to me as a former Catholic was this, "When did the Ancient Church lose its authority and become just "the church"? The answers about how the Ancient Church went from guidance through Revelation to guidance through philosophy relate directly to what you are asking here. It IS a pattern, a pattern which Satan has used to take down Christs Church MANY times throughout the ages...Hugh Nibley "The World and The Prophets" Chapter 9, "The Schools and the Prophets".
Good reference!
I'll have to find that book.
Where can we fix that book?
Great comment Johnny
The real answer to this question is: fall of Jerusalem in AD70...Jesus said Judgment (wrath was to come in the Generation HE was living in, Matt 23.35. The major sign would be the destruction of the 2nd Jewish temple. This was when prophecy was sealed, when all Israel was gathered in, according to Paul. If this statement was false, then the Mosaic covenant and temple would still be standing...as if this was a soon to be, future event.
I love the Proclamation on the Family❣️
One thing that Elder Renlund said that is true but I think you have to pay attention to nuance and potential wrong impressions. The statement that you cannot force revelation is true, but the problem, at least to my mind, is the implication that Heavenly Father doesn't want to reveal things to you and it is hard to get answers. I'm 57 years old, temple endowed and sealed, returned missionary, former relief society president, and just in the last few years I have learned that Heavenly Father is EAGER to communicate with me. What a joyous surprise! You cannot imagine my shock when revelation began to flow. Wendy Nelson gave a talk that really helped. She said to ask Father a question and then randomly open the scriptures, usually within 3 openings I find something relevant and specific. Then I write it down to show that I appreciate it. I started to use the Journal Edition of the scriptures, and began to receive impressions as I wrote my thoughts. The truth is that revelation is often flowing freely but we think it's our own thoughts. Ever have a good idea, or even a recurring thought, probably a prompting. Let me close with D&C 121:33 "What power shall stay the heavens? As well might man stretch forth his puny arm to stop the Missouri river in its decreed course, or to turn it up stream, as to hinder the Almighty from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints."
I think that many of Joseph Smith s revelations came as answers to his questions in prayer
I was exposed to Eastern philosophy while serving as a missionary in Korea (more than 30 years ago, yikes!). Both Confucianism and Taoism have many fascinating principles that are fully compatible with the Gospel. Take a look at the Korean flag: that symbol in the center (known to Koreans as the "TaeGuk") is from Taoism; often called "Yin and Yang" in Anglicized form. This is symbolic of a basic universal concept: that there is truly opposition in all things. The Chinese characters that form the "Yin and Yang" are used all over Chinese-derivative language, which includes Korean and Japanese. Word origins using these include: Light and dark, moon and sun, wet and dry, and many more. Most importantly it symbolizes male and female. Two equal forces in constant balance and harmony. What does this mean in regards to this discussion? The very concept of "male" cannot exist alone. It must be balanced, on a cosmic level, with female. Like everyone else in the Church, I will patiently wait for our Mother to be revealed.
Well said!
I loved thinking of the Yin and Yang with the command for Adam and Eve becoming one. I think it help you understand how both sexes bring balance to the relationship as well as the family.
I'm so excited. I have a friend in Texas who was very an eastern religionist. A few weeks ago she told me she'd bought a Bible and she was going to read it all from from to back. She said she'd read The Book of Mormon too. She's such a good friend, her name is Kathy.... Please pray for her!!!
@@franciegwin She sounds like a religion scholar. I'll pray the Holy Spirit touches her soul
🤍🕊
I have a personal theory that when Adam and Eve fell, and the earth fell from a Terrestrial to a Telestial glory, that certain things were taken away because they are not had in Telestial worlds. I believe the aspects of our Heavenly Mother(s?) are being withheld until we again are raised to the Terrestrial in the millennium (paradisiacal glory). It is possible that Terrestrial women will have a form of whatever priestesshood that Mother holds, but it is not something we call forth, or beg for, or anything else. It is simply not given to our present world. I am excited to see what is revealed after this world is raised to its former paradisiacal glory.
I had to share.
O My Father
1. O my Father, thou that dwellest
In the high and glorious place,
When shall I regain thy presence
And again behold thy face?
In thy holy habitation,
Did my spirit once reside?
In my first primeval childhood
Was I nurtured near thy side?
2. For a wise and glorious purpose
Thou hast placed me here on earth
And withheld the recollection
Of my former friends and birth;
Yet ofttimes a secret something
Whispered, “You’re a stranger here,”
And I felt that I had wandered
From a more exalted sphere.
3. I had learned to call thee Father,
Thru thy Spirit from on high,
But, until the key of knowledge
Was restored, I knew not why.
In the heav’ns are parents single?
No, the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason; truth eternal
Tells me I’ve a mother there.
4. When I leave this frail existence,
When I lay this mortal by,
Father, Mother, may I meet you
In your royal courts on high?
Then, at length, when I’ve completed
All you sent me forth to do,
With your mutual approbation
Let me come and dwell with you.
The original title of this poem was, "Invocation, or The Eternal Father and Mother."
Truth is reason; truth eternal tells me - there are million/billions of Heavenly Mothers there - sealed to one Eternal Father.
How is it reasonable to think that our Father has more than one wife?
I had a blessing about Heavenly Mother and how much she loves me. My life is so hard right now. I needed to know she knows and loves me too💗
Clear thinking! You certainly nailed it on the head. This topic has become divisive. As a mother I want to gather my family into one and my heart breaks when there is divisiveness in my family. I can only imagine how this must bring a bit of sadness to our Heavenly parents. Thank you for pointing out the division this has created and working to bring us into the unity of faith.
I love that the name for God that is used in the Temple is Elohim. This is a plural form. One of its direct translations can be 'Gods' as is used in the Book of Abraham. There are lots of essays in the christian world trying to explain away why this is so. Truth eternal tells me I've a mother there.
When I think of heavenly mother I am led to the verse where Phillip said, "Show us the Father" and Jesus said, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father."
I believe that theirs is a marriage of complete and absolute unity, while their roles differ, they are both deeply invested in bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
Everything that he is, she is also. like Christ and the Father are one, they are one. Remember that Elohim in Hebrew is plural. I don't think you can worship the Father and not accidentally be simultaneously worshiping his wife, remember they are as one. I suppose the mistake is in singling her out.
This is what I was thinking too! We'll put!
Such a sweet thought and aspiration!
...and leaving Her out. I appreciate more explicit inclusion of Her. I always use They and Them or Heavenly Parents when talking about God, because I believe God is both of Them, united. If I'm only talking about one of Them, them I'll specifically use Heavenly Father or Mother, depending on which I'm referring to.
I like your use of plural - as in - we have more than one Heavenly Mother - so we just let the worship of Her slide - since it's a multiple person calling.
Hmmmhmm…
Thank you for your awesome content on your channel! I just discovered it and I am loving your perspectives.
Heavenly Mother wears a veil. When we find veils in the scriptures, the temple, and many other places, we should consider that one purpose is to control access. Veils can be pierced or withdrawn, but only after all of the necessary preparations have been made. Thus, the veil protects us as much if not more than it protects the person, object, or sacred space behind it. I have heard it expressed many times that Heavenly Father protects our Mother from profanity and mocking, but I believe there’s much more to the idea that we will only know more of her when we reach a certain purity and preparation both individually and as a people. We are protected from the higher knowledge because we are not yet ready for God to reveal it.
Think of all instances in the scriptures where individuals and groups are given knowledge that is not lawful to utter: Christ’s prayer for the people at Bountiful, the babes whose tongues were loosed, the unwritten aspects of Joseph Smith’s vision of the kingdoms of glory, and Paul’s heavenly visions are just a few examples. The truths involved are not lawful to utter. What truths could be so amazing and profound that they can’t be uttered under our current spiritual law? I’ve often wondered what hasn’t yet entered into my mind or heart from a doctrinal perspective: truth more wonderful than Celestial marriage? The Degrees of glory? The Second Comforter? Yes! I believe the details concerning Heavenly Mother are more exalted and transcendent and can only be more fully revealed when we have been invited to pass through Her veil.
The prevailing feminist arguments are analogous to a rush on the temple and a demand to part the veil without the necessary endowment of power and preparation. Such demands fall flat before the awesome presence of an All-powerful Father whose purpose it is to prove us in all things, whether we will be faithful in all things (including prescribed methods of worship).
I am so glad he addressed this in the setting he did. The caution he admonished was also so great. This speculation has gotten out of control. We are such a microwave society- we want instant gratification. The concept of just “not knowing” is inexcusable to so many. Somethings, we just don’t know and we need to be okay with that.
There is absolutely a feminist movement inside of the LDS faith with an effort to diminish the position of The Father and place our Mother in Heaven in a place above him. There are popular artists who literally place her above him in their paintings.
Women are being deceived by social media influencers just as they were by Korihor. They are following these influencers as prophets. They are attempting to pray to Her but by doing so, they are bypassing the source of all light and by so doing, they are withdrawing themselves from the spirit. You cannot gain more light by bypassing light.
Well said.
The gospel is so simple- like Red, yellow and blue. Prayer, scriptures, temple. If I have those three primary colors I am able to make purple and green and orange- I am able to receive revelation for more knowledge. But it seems that people are trying to seek out more understanding without the basics- the basics aren’t enough; they want more. They are attempting to make purple without red and blue and it doesn’t work.
Social media "influencers". The word makes me cringe! I grew up in a different faith. We prayed to Mary and asked her to pray for us. She was the intercessory. It never made sense to me. At 24, I found the doctrine that did make sense. Of course we have a Heavenly Mother but even in this earth life, my mother would say "Go ask your father.", which now makes me giggle a bit thinking about it.
Several years ago, I listened to a sister in R. S. demand to know why there were only male apostles. She felt slighted as a daughter of God. She didn't like any of the comments, lovingly given by several sister to her 'question', and still demanded to know. I got the impression that it may have been the sole reason she was attending that day since i had not seen her before. She was not happy. Since I was sitting close to her, and after the lesson continued, I asked her if she had made that a part of her daily prayer to Heavenly Father since we were not able to answer her question as she wanted. I said that she could receive assurance that God knew of her concern, and a feeling of His love for her personally and maybe even an understanding of why our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ called only male apostles also. I am so grateful for the persoal assurances we receive in prayer. I hadn't remembered this luntil I watched this video, but yes it's been going on a long time. I never saw her again; Ihope she found some peace that we all seek.
There are so many people on social media that fit this. The ones that stand out the most to me are artists, and therapists (and other lds influencers who talk about being cafeteria Mormons). It's so toxic and is glaringly obvious to me. Having the group mentality of commenting and people liking comments and agreeing as though they are a prophet themselves, is really what is adding to the problem. People feel like the more people that agree or might think it can be true, it then must be true.
It's hard to comprehend why any members of the church would choose to use the doctrine of the existence of our Heavenly Mother as an adversarial weapon against the Lord's Anointed and against the church itself.
Notice the tenor of the comments in Mr. Park's Twitter thread, the tone is accusatory towards the Brethren. We know who the original accuser was. His accusations and deceptions led one third of the host of Heaven to their eternal doom.
The whole basis for "wokeness" and critical theory is to accuse others of being inferior, of actually being less of a human than the "woke" mob... And once the mob decides and identifies who the accused are, then they are immediately judged to be "guilty"... And the guilty must conform to the demands of "wokeness", or be cancelled.
Those following adversarial strategies against the church, with the hope that they will force doctrinal changes to the Gospel are in for deep disappointment.
Thanks, Greg, for another great video.
I lived in the same ward as Jeff and Pat Holland for a time. One Sunday, Elder Holland got up and was fawning over Pat for some reason. I was sitting close enough to Pat to hear her grumble, " Oh, Jeff, don't tell them that." I like to think Heavenly Mother is a lot like that. "Don't put me out there. I'm content, going unnoticed for Heaven's sake!"
That's a cool thought
I wonder if she uses the phrase "for Heaven's sake"? 🤔😄
I love your videos. This one is great. I realized studying the BOM in Come Follow Me that the tree of Life is Heavenly Mother. I really like your pointing out the way a lot of scholars are making M in H decisive. I look at is as Genesis “they shall be one flesh” when I pray to Heavenly Father I am sure HM is listening also and wanting to help me with HF. So to me there is no need to pray to her separately. She would not want us to pray to her. I feel like a true feminist and the fact that we even know there is a M in H is part of why I love this church so much. And as a true feminist I love this church and how we as women are honored. The fact that we honor Eve shows how amazing our church is to women.
The tree of life is not heavenly Mother . Stop this stuff . Of course he would be shown Mary she gave him birth . All people are represented by trees . Trees are always people . Tree of life is Jesus Christ .
There are groups of women in the Church who are worshipping the Heavenly Mother now. This is a timely subject and thank you for talking about this. I have actually been confronted by a few of these women for my testimony that we worship the Father. I was not surprised that this subject was brought up in Conference. I love Margaret Barker, and her scholarship. Thanks Greg.
You could ask them why they have such a low opinion of Heavenly Mother that they think she is not a primary decision maker that we are to pray to the Father only. Why do they dismiss her so easily? I've not known very many marriages in the church where the husband did not do the wife's bidding. I doubt it's much different in heaven. However you slice it, our Heavenly Parents are one and equal in their decisions. If the direction from God is to pray to the Father in the name of the Son, then it was just as much Mother's decision that it should be so as it was the Father's. Anyway, just another perspective to help when confronted like you have been.
God's house is a house of order not confusion. Prayer is supposed to be directed to our Father. We are not ready to understand higher things yet. NOT READY.
@@ensenadorjones4224 Amen!
Thank you for sharing Kimberly. Last night I couldn’t sleep. So sometimes I listen to this Christian meditation online. It wasn’t doing it for me. So I came across this QWIK Presentation talking about our mother in heaven. For some reason it was just what I needed. As he spoke Thoughts of my childhood went through my head. I too was a victim of abuse. My mother and father were sealed in the covenant. My mother suffered from depression and my parents separated. My mother was not there for me as a child. As I listened to the Qwik presentation. I had been praying for help sleeping and as I was listening I thought of my mother in heaven. I imagined her as a mother holding me as I imagined I had hoped my mother would’ve held held me as a child and she never did it. My mother’s needs became greater than her ability to be there for me As a child. I don’t have any memories of her ever holding me or Loving care
.....Continued. Or loving me. The divorce took her away from mothering. last night as I listened I imagined our mother in heaven. I had the thought that in order to sleep that is what I needed to Beheld and cuddled by a mother in a loving way. I imagined my mother in heaven playing that part. As time passed and my mother healed and we could talk she often said you have never slept since you were a child. I felt last night as I petitioned our father in heaven for an answer I received one. The role of a mother is so sacred and holy. A mother gives such subtle gifts of comfort in the womb and at birth and especially those first years of life. I came into a world where because of choices made I lost the comfort of a mother as she had no time from my birth on to give that comfort. I seldom saw my father and my life as a child was filled with neglect and abuse. Last night as I pleaded for sleep listening to this presentation filled my thoughts of the role of a mother in heaven and my thoughts were so comforting of being held and comforted by her. Thank you for sharing your journey. I’m so grateful Elder Renlund as he discussed her role, QWIK gave his perspective and you shared you journey and H F answered my prayers last night. I will continue to pursue my relationship and understanding of our Heavenly Mother. Mothers roles are so sacred. It is even more interesting to realize my mothers pattern as a child mirrored mine. She too was taken at an early stage in life and never received the nurturing of a mother. As I think of my grandmother she too was robbed through similar circumstances. In my mind after receiving the answer I did last night I have a desire to better know and understand my Mother in heaven. 💕🕊and her gifts so the pattern doesn’t continue. I would like to pattern my choices after her or the impression I had of her.
I lost my mother at age 6. I think this is one doctrine that drew me to the church. A group I belong to on Facebook and this subject of praying to Heavenly Mother. Is there a difference between praying to her and just talking to her. I tried it twice praying to both off them together and it just didn't feel right. Also, I was sexually abused by my Dad from the crib and when I left home and It took me 3 yrs before I could comfortably pray, saying Heavenly Father. I had prayed to Jehovah as a JW.....I knew that Jehovah was Jesus but I didn't feel s safe praying to God and HFather. It just took time. I knew Heavenly Father understood. On a regular basis(I don't know if this is proper) I ask Heavenly Father to tell Heavenly Mother how much I love her and to please give her a big hug from me and my inner child. But, there are times when I need a feminine presence especially in my emotional healing. I also have memories on the pre-existance of my interactions with Heavenly Father, Heavenly Mother,. And Jesus, counseling me before I was born. I have kind of felt her calming safe presence or angels she has sent. I really don't know exactly where it was her or feminine angel. I know it worked. But I do not pray to her. Thanks so much for this talk on this talk by Elder Renlund and the overview of this information. I'll keep praying to Heavenly Father to balance out my views.
I had a good friend asked me this question about women and abuse. His wife had suffered severe abuse and was not comfortable praying to male God and she was really torn. As I pondered it, the quote from Elder Boyd K Packer entered my mind: “True Doctrine, Understood, Changes Attitudes and Behavior”. As we understand the doctrines of the gospel, the spirit is allowed to soften our hearts. In some cases of abuse, I believe the spirit is the only way that a soul can be reached. Study the doctrines.
I am convinced that we do not know everything there is to know on the subject. Also there are things we think we know that are only part of the picture.
I trust the prophet and I'm not a feminist in the slightest, but the reasons you have stated make complete and total sense as to why a kind and compassionate father would not have a problem with you speaking to your mother. When they bring this topic up I am so uncomfortable. I don't even pray to heavenly mother necessarily, but I understand those who feel so moved. This is the point where I wish we would just stop talking about it. 😂😮😢😅
@@TomkatJen I feel so blessed with the church coming along through a friend exactly when I needed it. There was an inactive couple that lived in my apt building. They didn't go to church and never thought of asking the missionaries to knock on my door. But 2 yrs after my friend to send the missionaries to me a set of make missionaries came in through the lobby. I said "Halt, I have to speak you you guys.". The next day they were moved out BUT we got sister missionaries that day. I started getting the lessons and was baptized less that a months later. I have just been so blessed since 2005. I'm even grateful for several things that I used to view as negative. I had to have those painful experiences to learn difference thing. My parents are both dead, but I have a beautiful relationship on the other side of the veil now. They have both excerpted they're with on the temple. Yrs ago while watching conference the spirit promised me that in the eternities my family would be healed. That is the most beautiful promise the spirit could have given me. Have a blessed day!
@@dorar6123 I look forward the day to where I can hug her and my Heavenly Father on person!!
@@franciegwin Awesome! Sweet testimony 👍🏻💗
Do we accept these men as prophets, seers and revelators? If so, where is the power structure? The power is with God. These men are just His spokesmen. If we don't accept them as such, why are we even members of a church in which we don't believe? That's my biggest argument. Either you believe or you don't. Create your own church and run it the way you want. Teach the things you want. Or follow truth. Truth is not a political view that can be changed by persuasion or coercion. I think of Joshua and choose you this day whom ye will serve. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Seems so simple.
Amen.
Creating something new is way too much work: You can get a lot more attention destroying something someone else created.
This is Satan's MO from the beginning.
Yes!
Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has said, “Our theology begins with heavenly parents. Our highest aspiration is to be like them.”
President Joseph Smith
The prophet Joseph Smith spoke about our Heavenly Mother to the third Relief Society president of the Church, Zina D. Young. After losing her mother to "the most trying of circumstances," Zina was speaking to the prophet about her intense grief and asked the question: "Will I know my mother as my mother when I get over to the Other Side?" (History of the Young Ladies' Mutual Improvement Association of the Church of Jesus Christ of L.D.S., from November 1869 to June 1910, 16).
To which Joseph Smith responded:
"Certainly you will. More than that, you will meet and become acquainted with your eternal Mother, the wife of your Father in Heaven" (History of the Young Ladies' Mutual Improvement Association of the Church of Jesus Christ of L.D.S., from November 1869 to June 1910, 16).
2. President Joseph Fielding Smith
President Joseph Fielding Smith also confirmed our Heavenly Mother's existence and divine role:
"Latter-day Saints believe that not only have we a Father in heaven, but a mother there. Why not have a mother as well as a Father?" (Restoration of All Things, Ch. 26).
Elder Orson F. Whitney
Elder Orson F. Whitney shared that we can become like Heavenly Father and our Heavenly Mother:
"No pain that we suffer, no trial that we experience is wasted. It ministers to our education, to the development of such qualities as patience, faith, fortitude and humility. All that we suffer and all that we endure, especially when we endure it patiently, builds up our characters, purifies our hearts, expands our souls, and makes us more tender and charitable, more worthy to be called the children of God . . . and it is through sorrow and suffering, toil and tribulation, that we gain the education that we come here to acquire and which will make us more like our Father and Mother in heaven" (Faith Precedes the Miracle, 98).
President Rudger Clawson
In 1910, President Rudger Clawson wrote of the godhood women possess as a birthright from our Heavenly Mother:
“It doesn’t take from our worship of the Eternal Father, to adore our Eternal Mother, any more than it diminishes the love we bear our earthly fathers, to include our earthly mothers in our affections. . . . We honor woman when we acknowledge Godhood in her eternal prototype" (“Our Mother in Heaven,” Millennial Star 72, September 29, 1910).
Elder John A. Widtsoe
Elder John A. Widtsoe of the Quorum of the Twelve wrote of our Heavenly Mother and Her radiance:
“The glorious vision of life hereafter . . . is given radiant warmth by the thought that . . . [we have] a mother who possesses the attributes of Godhood” (“Everlasting Motherhood,” Millennial Star 90, May 10, 1928).
Elder Melvin J. Ballard
Elder Melvin J. Ballard shared that Heavenly Mother is equal to our Heavenly Father:
"No matter to what heights God has attained or may attain, he does not stand alone; for side by side with him, in all her glory, a glory like unto his, stands a companion, the Mother of his children. For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother. That is a startling doctrine, I recognize, to some folk, and yet we ought to be governed by reason in giving consideration to this doctrine which is a revelation from God" (Sermons and Mission Services of Melvin Joseph Ballard, 205).
President Harold B. Lee
President Harold B. Lee taught of the concern and love our Heavenly Parents demonstrated in the pre-existence:
"There came a day, then, when Mother and Father said, 'Now, my son, my daughter, it is now your time to go. This is the greatest time in the history of the world. This is the fulness of times, and now because of your faithfulness you are permitted to go down in this fulness of time upon the earth.' I suppose as Father and Mother bade us good-bye, there may have been some sadness there because they knew Satan was here and one-third of all the hosts were here [with him]. We walked, as it were, through an open door. The door was closed behind us" ("The Teachings of Harold B. Lee," Clyde J. Williams).
President Harold B. Lee also shared how that concern lasts through our mortal journey and how we can feel the influence of our Heavenly Mother and Father:
"There are forces that work beyond our sight. Sometimes we think the whole job is up to us, forgetful that there are loved ones beyond our sight who are thinking about us and our children. We forget that we have a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother who are even more concerned, probably, than our earthly father and mother, and that influences from beyond are constantly working to try to help us when we do all we can" ("A Sure Sound: Quotations from President Lee," Ensign, Feb 1974).
President Spencer W. Kimball
President Spencer W. Kimball shared the attributes of our Heavenly Mother and her influence in our lives:
"Finally, when we sing that doctrinal hymn and anthem of affection, 'O My Father,' we get a sense of the ultimate in maternal modesty, of the restrained, queenly elegance of our Heavenly Mother, and knowing how profoundly our mortal mothers have shaped us here, do we suppose her influence on us as individuals to be less if we live so as to return there?" ("The True Way of Life and Salvation," Ensign, May 1978, 4).
President Gordon B. Hinckley
In 1991, President Gordon B. Hinckley gave a detailed explanation of why Latter-day Saints do not pray to our Heavenly Mother and instead follow the example of the Savior in the New Testament. He then added:
"Logic and reason would certainly suggest that if we have a Father in Heaven, we have a Mother in Heaven. That doctrine rests well with me. . . . The fact that we do not pray to our Mother in Heaven in no way belittles or denigrates her. . . . [N]one of us can add to or diminish the glory of her of whom we have no revealed knowledge" ("Daughters of God," Ensign, 1991).
Elder Dallin H. Oaks
In 1995, Elder Dallin H. Oaks taught that we should aspire to be like our Heavenly Mother:
“Our theology begins with heavenly parents. Our highest aspiration is to be like them” ("Becoming Like God").
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland
In an October 2015 conference address, Elder Jeffrey R. Holland expressed his gratitude for our Mother in Heaven:
"To Mother Eve, to Sarah, Rebekah, and Rachel, to Mary of Nazareth, and to a Mother in Heaven, I say, 'Thank you for your crucial role in fulfilling the purposes of eternity.' To all mothers in every circumstance, including those who struggle-and all will-I say, 'Be peaceful. Believe in God and yourself. You are doing better than you think you are. In fact, you are saviors on Mount Zion, and like the Master you follow, your love ‘never faileth’" ("Behold Thy Mother").
Thanks for sharing this great list of quotes!
@@kurstenmason7132 , You are more than welcome. I do the best I can to help those who care to understand the true restoration of this Gospel- Revelation 14:6-7.
Thank you so much for this!
@@RV43888 you are welcome! I understand how Anti- LDS critic's like to use our leaders words against them. Even go about altering their talks to fit their agendas in hope people leave our Church.
As a mother and having children with my husband, we work in concert to guide or lead our children. Someone else commented it is not a power struggle between men and women. The husbands and fathers are the head of the household we go to them for counsel and guidance, and as mothers our husbands council with us to know what is best for our children. It is an equal guardianship over our children. And I feel that this is how God runs his family.
It's sad that so many couples make it a competition or adversarial relationship!
Many years ago....many, I was waiting on an Endowment Session to start and I was given a singular experience. By Revelation I was given to understand that yes, there is a Heavenly Mother.....and not just A Heavenly Mother but specifically MY Heavenly Mother. From that experience I dudced that there are more than One. Oddly, along with that, I came to realize that even there are enumerable numbers of sons and daughters of God, and that some may end up near twins in exactness there will always be at least One quality that is unique to only you.
I’ve had it up to my eyeballs with critical social justice. The whole of humanity isn’t even smart enough to define it, let alone to exercise it. I’m glad I’m old. I’m just sorry for my granddaughter and my kids who will have to survive in this world so beset with arrogant narcissism. Isaiah 5:13-21 is worth deep consideration. It is a principle of Christian practice our “enlightened” world seems to have forgotten. Enlightened? My … .
2nd Nephi 27: 16
@@rconger384 for those who need to look up the reference, it says, “And now, because of the glory of the world and to get gain will they say this, and not for the glory of God.” Here is some homespun wisdom, the result of nearly half a century of observation in the setting of medical practice. Depending on how you look at it, there is not a living thing that does not “get gain.” Life is impossible without it. The issue here is this: Is it fair that some people are rich and some are poor? I suppose you can philosophize about it until the cows come home and long thereafter, but fairness has nothing to do with anything. The reality is that every single attribute of any individual within a population exists in a Gaussian distribution, the proverbial bell-shaped frequency curve. Some are tall, some are short, some smarter and some less so. Wealth is no different. Some are rich and some are poor. And the obvious corollary is in this passage: Matthew 14:7. You can argue in favor of “redistribution of wealth” but the Gaussian distribution will remain while you practice satanism by forcing the rich to give to the poor through force of legislation. How do you deal with that? Are you ready to give up your divine agency in order to shift the wealth distribution cure a little to the right? Wouldn’t it be better to make whatever sacrifice is necessary for the sake of better education and a more remunerative occupation?
I’m 50 and am glad I’m old. Lol
@@ladyjade6446 50 ain't old. 90 is when it starts. 😄
I'm willing to wait for the Lord to reveal and restore all things. It's very freeing to trust Him.
Here's maybe another way of looking at it. You know how mothers and fathers have different roles in raising children? And how which role is predominant depends on the stage of development of the child? When a child is a baby, the role of the mother is close to 100%. By the time a child is a teenager and is learning to be on their own, a switch has occurred and the father's role becomes most important. So perhaps we're at a point in our development where Heavenly Father's role and relationship with us is what we need to continue progressing and our Heavenly Mother has stepped back into the background because she has already done her part., Maybe fixation on our Heavenly Mother and her role at this point in our development is an unnecessary distraction and may even distort our growth. Or something to that effect. (Just speculating here, not revelation.)
That's an excellent hypothesis. I can well imagine she (or they) is busy with the upcoming little ones.
I've often thought about this in similar terms. Kind of like, he's teaching us discipline right now...and when we've learned to behave ourselves well enough and he can trust us to treat her properly...THEN we can have more of her.
Those have been my thoughts, too. She worked tirelessly to get us ready to come to earth. Now, if 1,000 years is as one day to God, maybe she is just asking for a week off, as it were. Of course - just conjecture on my part.
However you slice it, one thing for sure is that She and the Father are one in the plan of salvation. So, if the direction from God is to pray to the Father in the name of the Son, then it was just as much her decision that it would be that way as it was the Father's.
I appreciate your caution, holding onto truth--and respect of doctrine of the gospel---the things that are known. Continued revelation surely does keep the train on the rails....during these really confusing and times of commotion, of pretty much anything worthy
Sorry, if Heavenly Mother is deity, I do worship her along with our Heavenly Father and the Savior. She’s His equal and they couldn’t have been exalted without each other, so how can I not worship her in my heart? I adore her! I don’t pray to her, but I talk to her in my heart sometimes.
Study how apostates are created and you’ll see a pattern to avoid. Bottom line: Follow the prophet. Period. Continually study the standard works. Read them aloud to and with your spouse. The patterns are found in them and as life experience is aggregated the truths within them will increase in significance and application. Sophistries and philosophies hold little power over those who know better.
Gender is in existence for the purpose of unification and creation. Perversion, in any form, takes us away from unification and creation. Thank you for pointing out the divisive aspects of a gender-based God and the separation that occurs through the speculation about matters for which we have a small amount of revelation.
Absolutely!!!
Thanks for keeping this subject reasonable and honestly seeking for further light and knowledge.
My thoughts of a Heavenly Mother through the years is that the understanding of the word Elohim (spelling? 🤔 I think this was the name used, it could be another word used and I just don't remember it? 🤔 ), whichever Name it was it incorporates both male and female. It's too many years ago that I studied that to remember all I read. I was happy with what I learned then and I still am. I've always seen a Heavenly Mother being a loving nurturing person that works quietly with our Father in Heaven and has very specific roles that she plays. She has a very important role, but because we don't know what it is does not diminish her importance. Much like a family that we try to build here on earth so is a Heavenly Home, it's just the perfect home.
I know that we have a Heavenly Mother and she loves us but her role is unknown to us at this time. I don't know if it makes any sense to anyone else, but I talk to my Heavenly Father through the Saviour. I believe our Heavenly Mother is aware of us just as is our Heavenly Father and Saviour.
We have our separate roles to play and Satan is pulling out all the stops to have people fail. I have NEVER felt lesser to any man (or women). I know my worth to My Heavenly Father and I know he has a very special love for his daughters. It has been shown in Scripture and revelation, and in personal experience.
Love the quote "Reason cannot replace revelation" (unreasonable cannot either) 😉 Much to think about.
#TopDown
Thanks for the the video.
Sorry if I don't explain my feelings very well here. This is spur of the moment after not sleeping for more than a couple of hours sleep over four days. 😴
There could certainly be something to this line of thinking. He stands in representation of “many”.
precisely!
The understanding is best understood by talking to Jews. While El is plural, it translates as “the forces” or “the energies”. It is so confusing. 🤷🏼♀️
@@rachelczumaya2806 I have seen this but I think it is a weak interpretation. The direct translation is simply "many Gods" or "many" which can also be used in titles. Like "Eve" - the mother of ALL living" and Adam - "many" according to the Book of Moses.
I totally agree with you. I marched against the ERA in the 70's.I have always thought and felt equal.I don't need the Priesthood to feel of worth. If I held the Priesthood and all that goes with it I would literally be so overwhelmed I could not do what I feel is my calling and that is to be a mother, wife and create a setting of love and safety in my home. Motherhood, is a full time job and it never ends. My husband and I compliment each other. We are a team and we share our duties. I love being a wife and a mother. This is my destiny!!
Love this.
It’s almost taboo to speak of a Heavenly Mother. The very idea blows the mind of most, especially outside of our faith. My speculation (sorry) is our Heavenly Father knows the wickedness of man and a means of protecting her sacred nature, keeps that knowledge from the world. I imagine He would not want her name blasphemed in any way.
You are correct. I remember as a youngster my mother taught me that Heavenly Mother isn't talked about because of the sacredness surrounding her.
That's a beautiful explanation.
That explanation doesn't sit well with me. God, the Father, is just as sacred and has also been blasphemed extensively, yet there is no injunction against worshipping Him. I'd look elsewhere for an explanation.
The idea that “heavenly mother is too sacred to talk about” doesn’t come from any revelation. We’ve actually traced the idea back to one seminary teacher. That was their explanation for why we don’t know more about her.
@@KnuttyEntertainment Hence the use of the words “my speculation.” I don’t pretend to KNOW these things.
If LDS Doctrine is that men and women can become Gods and Goddesses, and by extension that there is a Mother in Heaven, then would also follow that the partnership (Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother) are, unified, omnipotent. And if the two of them cannot be exalted without each other, then it follows that Heavenly Mother is as omnipotent as God is. So if in fact that is all true, then Heavenly Mother, in her infinite wisdom and power, has CHOSEN to remain unknown, and silent about her own identity. If anyone suggests otherwise, then they are suggesting she is not all-powerful and all-knowing and is instead a subject of God the Father. So the only remaining logic is that Heavenly Mother has CHOSEN the state of things. Therefore, It falls on us to ask the question "Why?" and to try to understand her choice as a loving, wise effort to help her children. Could any insistence that she is somehow oppressed and needs her children to be her voice be interpreted as anything less than a rebellion? I'd like to hear the logic that justifies it.
If I ever become a heavenly mother, I would want to let my husband deal with the mortals, while I stay home and play with the kids (And nurture them). 😉
You idea works if there was only one "Mother" - but since there are millions - they down play the role as not to discourage the women in this life.
If we set aside the philosophies of men and the false traditions, and focus on the gospel of Jesus Christ, as explained in the scriptures, then we understand that Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother are two exalted beings who have been sealed together and they are perfect and they function as ONE. So, when we pray to Heavenly Father we are addressing both of them. Neither can be God without the other. One of our main goals here on earth is to develop a relationship with God, such that we know how and what to do to continue our eternal progression to become like Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. We are given knowledge and understanding through personal revelation, after we do the work through much faith. It is so important to remember that there is no man or woman on this earth, nor will there be, who can dictate what our relationship is or should be to our Heavenly Parents, this can only be found through much prayer and personal revelation.
I accept the doctrine of the Church as it is. It has worked for us since the beginning of times, why do we need to change it? It has been revealed in these latter days that we also have a heavenly mother, it is not a mystery. Heavenly Father is perfect in everything He does. I trust him with the revelations that he gives us through his prophets from time to time. We don’t know what revelations we’ll have in the future of our heavenly mother, but for now, I trust him. I feel heard, I feel validated, I feel protected, I feel loved, I feel blessed. These kind of feminism is a cancer that’s penetrating society and also the church through academia, where they want to take the information Heavenly Father has revealed to us and study it but without an ounce of spiritual understanding, so much that they get confused but also cause confusion.
Asa former member of the Catholic Church we certainly prayed to Mary and there are many chapels and statues where I think some individuals wrongly worship her as in mother of Jesus on earth. So a similarity there.
I agree with you Cwic. This is the same fight we experienced in the pre-existence. Essentially the tact that was taken by the adversary in that fight was one of Critical Theory. 'Tear down the existing hierarchy through critical means'
In some cases, hierarchies might need to be taken down. But in a gospel case, if one is trying to take down the existing hierarchy then that person is in essence in opposition to the rule of the Father.
I find it rather funny that the feminists in the church who want to pray to Heavenly Mother and make her a focus of their worship think that she is powerful enough for such veneration, but it never crosses their minds that maybe a big reason that we are to pray to the Father is because SHE wanted it that way. In most marriages the husband does the wife's bidding, not the other way around.
My wife has a quote above the bed that says, "If you love me, let me sleep." That is for HER - not for me. She often pleads with me to protect her from the kids harassing her for stuff all the time. She wants them to come to ME so that she can get some rest. If 1,000 years is as one day to God, then maybe Heavenly Mother just wants a week off. Can't we give her a week off? She is probably running the pray answer programs as it is anyway. Of course, this is all conjecture on my part. What I do not believe is conjecture, though, is that Heavenly Mother is the equal to the Father in deciding how we worship. I do not dismiss her as a primary decision maker in the plan of salvation like the feminists do.
As a mother I’ve had the same thought!
I think our heavenly mother and Heavenly Father are pointing us to Jesus.
It is indeed the social influence that will try and pervert these things. Having been in a bad marriage and now in a good marriage where my husband and I work together, I now understand better, the ways of the Lord. There are many many women in bad marriages who are bitter towards men. I was one of them. I feel like with the increase in divorce over the years, Satan has capitalized on that and in the name of “empowering women” this kind of worshiping heaven.y mother has created a false sense of women feeling equal. If only they really understood the real power of man and woman together.
Great words. Thank you.
I would say that the bitterness that some women feel from a bad marriage almost makes them feel superior over men, as if they believe that all men would treat their wives badly. Unfortunately, they allow their bad experiences to cloud their judgment. I'm sure if we were to look into the backgrounds of the more radical feminists out there, we would probably find that they had traumatic experiences with the men in their lives, which shaped their views.
@@trishcrowe5474 yes I agree. I went thru a period of time after my previous marriage thinking really distorted things and really believing that all men are bad, chauvinistic and would cheat on their wives. It was a long road to get to reality.
@@trishcrowe5474 I think we all project our personal experiences
Yes. Both together. That's why I wonder why general conference speakers leave out Heavenly Mother. Our doctrine is that God's plan is Their plan (God is Father plus Mother) and we are Their beloved spirit children.
Psychology shows that mothers are more important when children are younger and need care and nurturing. Fathers are more important when children get older. Fathers help children mature. It's simple to me that we are on earth to mature therefore a father should be prominent in our lives.
You are right. Most Mormon women don’t feel this way. We follow and support the prophet and apostles. The time to understand this is in the future.
I have spent much of my life working in male only or mostly male environments. I have heard a lot of rough talk invoking the name of deity accompanying perverse and sometimes filthy language. It is my belief that it is the duty of men to protect the honor females especially their wives and daughters. I have felt that our Father in Heaven protects his wife our heavenly mother from such speech by not revealing much about her. I also believe that Jesus was married and his wife was kept from public scrutiny for the same reason. This may come off as sexist to some but it is not the way I think about it.
Richard Marble, I agree with your totally. There was a time that women were treasured, protected, and shielded by the stronger sex. That's the way it should be, in my opinion. The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world. That's enough for me.
I agree, and I was going to say the same. I believe he has so much love and respect for her, that he didn’t want her name to be disrespected like he knew his would. I have shut down people trying to do the “your mom “ jokes , because my mom has earned, and deserves full respect. I know it is the same with our heavenly mother.
@@davden965 Yes the same with my mom. She scrimped and saved, sacrificed, took us six kids to church by herself, guided all spiritual matters in the home, called a spade , a spade (spoke truth) and was faithful to her last breath. If I can be one half of my mother, I have it made!
Agree
The only reason I can think of for any desire to worship anyone other than the true and living God is dissatisfaction with Him. Sad.
My true feelings is that Heavenly Mother has something to do with the symbolic Tree of Life. When we partake of covenants with God we abide in "their love." But it is a gift that we actually have to come into and it is for the Father to give. If we freely give it to ourselves we exalt ourselves rather than allowing God to give his gifts to us. It is also something he holds sacred to his heart. I have glimpses where I can feel her influence in my life. But those are sacred experiences. If we cannot have respect for Heavenly Father's laws and especially chastity we fall into lusting her or ourselves rather than loving her with that pure love. She is guarded by the things that guard the Tree of Life. We will have so.much joy in the eternities when we have the highest reward of their presence. ❤️
It has always been a problem having two heads. Which one do you listen to? Which one is most important? What role do each get assigned? People just get confused enough having one God with a son and a 'helper' as 'councilors. If there was another co-equal with God for us to sort out I guarantee that mankind would not be able to sort it out. Look at what many do with Mary. Some place her above God as it is. Do we really want to have women worshiping our heavenly mother and men worshipping our heavenly father? Talk about divisive.
The prophets and apostles have revealed to us that we have a heavenly mother. I believe that this is where the discussion should end we shouldn’t wonder, spend too much time thinking about or trying to justify and come up with a reasons about a heavenly mother we should just accept that there is has been revealed to us so far is all that is for right now until further revelation and not worry about it anymore and not make a big deal about it. Seems to me the heavenly father isn’t making a big deal about it right now but one day he will and when he does, that will be our time to make a big deal out of it. I know that there are people out there against the church, saying we have a heavenly mother, and they want us to prove an expound upon. I look at it this way you can’t really have a father without a mother. You can’t have a child without a mother. It just makes sense and that’s where I leave it. I like this program is very enlightening, so keep up the good work.
Speculation is dangerous. Knowing the Heavenly Mother exists is encouraging. When it is time we will learn of her
Great video, definitely think this is an important and fascinating topic especially when talking about the Old Testament.
Thank you!
Several months back our Bishop happened to be away on a Sunday and it happened that his wife was our final speaker. The topic she spoke on was Heavenly mother. This woman is intelligent, well educated and articulate. Unfortunately her talk included a little scripture and plenty of the philosophies of men, particularly BYU men. Almost of necessity, given the whole talk was on the one topic, it devolved into a lot of very self assured speculation and assumptions. I was and am appalled. No correction, retraction or moderation was ever offered and I'm sure it never will be. It is indicative of the doctrinal slide underway among too many of the membership. It was a nice nutshell example of so many of thing things mentioned in this video.
Unless it was a visiting member of the First Presidency or Quorum of the Twelve Apostles speaking, why would the topic of Heavenly Mother ever be the topic for a Sacrament meeting speaker? We're supposed to focus on the Savior's atonement and the revealed principles of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.
@@digdudemoose2536 Unfortunately some members take it upon themselves to give a talk on whichever “topic” THEY choose, not the one given to them 😱
Excellent! Thank you for teaching doctrine/Truth. I’m 80 and have watched this play out in the lives of my sisters. I have been a Stake Relief Society President twice, once in my 20’s and once in my 40’s. Sadly, many of those who get diverted into praying to Heavenly Mother don’t remain in the church. No wonder President Nelson has asked the sisters to study the doctrine of the priesthood. In the words of Elder James E. Faust “Priesthood is not gender; it is blessings from God for all at the hands of the servants He has designated.” April 1993, “Father, Come Home”
I really like that if all could just understand that. It is to bless others.
I love the doctrine of the divine female contained in the teachings of having a Heavenly Mother. However, there is a huge gap b/w what we think we know and anything resembling truth about her. We have very littlle scriptural references about her and we don't know about her attributes. I think it's safe to assume she possesses all the same attributes that our Father in Heaven possess b/c she is perfect but the issue is we don't know. How can you worship something you know so little about? You can't. Worship = emulation of, copying someone or something. We can't even begin to worship Heavenly Mother until we know more about her and that can only come through revelation.
I think you have a key principle there. Since we have no informatioin on heavenly Mother beyond Her existence, what exactly are the people worshipping who worship her? They are worshipping something, but not from God. That's a mighty dangerous path to follow.
Well I worship God the Father in his Son Jesus Christ's name.
Personal revelation reveals Heavenly Mother to some, but only a KNOB would worship anyone (or anything) outside of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit until more is properly revealed🦋🌻
🤍🕊🙏🏼
I have always felt, pretty much instinctually, that as soon as you form or join a faction, you are already in the wrong.
Bruce R. McConkie gave a talk in ‘82 called “Our Relationship with God” where he flat out said “stay in the mainstream of the church”. Wise council.
Thanks for going into this subject. I feel that there's a reason that she isn't mentioned much and I feel that that's because Heavenly Father holds her in reverence from the world. I feel as though the Elders practice this perfectly with their own wives as seen in General Conference. They don't need to say anything to be held in respect and high regard even though they have the opportunity to do so. Thanks for all you explain on these scary things going on in our world and in the culture of our church. Thanks! 😊
You're welcome!
I feel that heavenly Father in a way is protective of heavenly mother and to keep the world's criticism and negative ism from her. And in heaven like here women have total different roles to perform
As an adult, I left the Roman Catholic church and joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and never looked back. I have never felt the need to care about what the Pope has to say about anything because I don't believe in him or that church's doctrine. So, I don't understand why people who don't like our doctrine think they have the right to demand the church changes it's position for them. If you don't like the church, leave it, AND LEAVE IT ALONE. If you believe the doctrine is changeable move on to a church that meets your needs. Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans etc. do it all the time. If the pastor doesn't have the same views, congregants simply find a different church home. Maybe we should encourage more of that.
However, I believe doctrine is eternal and is given to us to make us better. Instead of trying the change the doctrine and teachings of the church, I try to change my life in such a way as to be able to live the doctrine more fully. Change myself, not the church.
Professors who are glad to be paid by a church they don't believe in should likewise move on. Perhaps they can start their own chuch
I am not a Biblical language scholar, but jealousy is not maybe the right concept. I believe Heavenly Father is protective of our Heavenly Mother. I have always accepted the doctrine of a Heavenly Mother, but as a young woman someone once said much of what you spoke on. People have sworn in the name of deity throughout time, and this person said Heavenly Father didn’t want that for our Heavenly Mother. Made total sense to me.
The idea that “heavenly mother is too sacred to talk about” doesn’t come from any revelation. We’ve actually traced the idea back to one seminary teacher. That was their explanation for why we don’t know more.
And the word “jealous” in scripture doesn’t mean envy so much as it does sentimental. God is a sentimental God, he is pained to see us take a path that leads us farther from him and our own joy.
The Priesthood is a protection. Fathers and Mothers have different rolls. But the way I see it is that our Heavenly Mother is just as important as our Heavenly Father, they are equal heirs. We should be responsible enough to keep our Heavenly Mother sacred by not speculating about her. Since Our Father is the protector, he is the one we honor by also protecting our Mother. In today society so much is slandered and not revered as they should be.
I agree with your supposition that part of the problem is elevating one aspect of the office of God, and diminishing the other.
D&C 20:17-21 are more than explicit that the office of highest celestial expectation that we know of can only be filled, and properly exercised by a Male and female equally yoked, and in our case made eligible by the atonement of Jesus Christ. His grace and mercy, and our willingness to repent and try in our pitiful way to follow Him.
I like your testimony and admire your good works.
Thank you!
I agree that beauty and love can be found in the mother image. It is also an attribute of our Heavenly Father. People who try to divide the two and ascribe social justice to their motives are out of line. They must face their choice as an act of rebellion against the gospel, or they will waste their time in mortality and never find the peace they claim to offer others. Our God is a God of Order. He decides, not an academic professor or a beloved poet, what our roles are and whom we worship. Nephi was shown the tree of life in answer to his question about the mother of Christ; he was shown in what honor and love she is held; he didn't mistake that as an invitation to build a shrine and begin to worship and direct prayers to her. He understood her role because an angel of God was there to reveal it to him. The revelation in this Church comes from Heavanely Father, starting with angels of God revealing truth to Joseph Smith and continueing as Heavenly Father promised, through his annointed servants, our prophets, seers and revelators,and we can have faith in His love for his children The only force that always, from the beginning of the earth, teaches division, promotes idolatry and encourages virtue signaling 'reasonable' rebellion to God's annointed is Satan. In the last days we are invited to choose which church we belong to, and this is another reminder that there are only two churches at the end, and only one way to happiness on earth, and eternal life with the Father and Mother of us all, and it's not through rebellion, or 'forced change' , identity politics or academic fervor.
It is interesting that these MARIST CHRISTIANS (SO CALLED) ARE ALWAYS SO ANGRY AND WHIPPED UP IN EMOTION SO THEY CAN'T REASON.
I see where this subject, along with DEI
can lead to a schism in this church.
I had heard in a talk, that it’s because Heavenly Father protects Heavenly Mother.
I knew there is a HEAVENLY MOTHER due to the fact the HYMN - O MY FATHER has point out HEAVENLY MOTHER in the third chorus, It says: Tells me I've a mother there. PG 292.
This is a very interesting analysis. Thanks so much.
My pleasure!
Concerning the September 6...
Isaiah scholar, Avraham Gileadi, was one of the September 6 who were excommunicated. His version of the events is fascinating, but too complicated to share here...
He was eventually reinstated to full fellowship. The Brethren removed the excommunication from all Church records, and it officially never happened. He was undeserving of any Church discipline, and the fact that he endured discipline due to false charges was corrected.
Love his work!
@@CwicShow Me too. I have been studying Isaiah pretty hard-core with Brother Gileadi's tools for the last 7 years or so. The literary devices Isaiah uses are consistent throughout scripture, and I consider Isaiah to be the "Rosetta Stone" of holy writ. Understanding Isaiah has helped me to understand all other scripture in ways I had never imagined. I discovered that even my patriarchal blessing is rich in Isaiah imagery and word links. Incredible!
Agreed! Especially the Book of Mormon.
If we had more revealed truth about heavenly mother, we would teach it. She could certainly define for us what a woman is.
I know that we have a Heavenly Mother with all my heart. Why else would our Heavenly Father be so adamant about us keeping ourselves together in our family. He wants us to be sealed together as Families, in the Temples here on earth. What is joined on earth will be joined in Heaven and what is loosed on earth will be loosed in heaven also.
We don't know much about our Heavenly Mother because that is the only way God can protect her from slander and having her name used for slanderous name calling or taking her name in vain like so many on earth about God our Father.
People blame God our Father for anything that goes wrong in a day. Anything at all. It breaks my heart to hear people do that. And they do the same thing to our Elder Brother, Jesus Christ, right!! How many times I shudder in a day at the many people who seem to have no respect at all for our Brother Jesus Christ who put His life on the line to Save all of us from being punished for Our Sins or our Father in Heaven. Let's get real here and we'll know very well why we know little about God's Beloved Wife, our Mother! ❣️💔
When people choose to not study the gospel, and to pray with real intent, but partake of general conference, and then continue their patterns of laziness, it is no shock or mystery that these individuals fall off the path into strange roads.
If I had a world full of children who would profane me and my son whom I would send to save them, why would I expose my dear wife to such profanity and abuse? Now having said that, I too await further light and knowledge. It is enough to know that I have Heavenly Parents. Certainly, Women played a role in the Counsel in Heaven, we see the pattern in our counsels here on earth. We have that model in our homes as well so why so much fuss?? I find it interesting how many look beyond the mark... JMO.
Great episode!
I find that a lot of "Mormon Feminists" tend to talk about Heavenly Mother in the same way that feminists outside the Church talk about Lilith. I wonder if she has anything to do with ancient Asherah worship, as at first glance they seem different.
I really like this idea that the Tree of Life is a representation of Mary, and possibly even Heavenly Mother, and I can't help but wonder what this means when there's two trees mentioned in the Garden of Eden story.
Thank you. I do think it is important to understand that the Tree of Life is more encompassing. It is to me, the Doctrine of Christ. Mary, the mother, would be a part of that, especially in regards to the "condescension of God." We all "condescend" to earth through the gift of a mother.
Totally agree with statements made. Why is this not being handled in a doctrinal manner. If we believe there is a heavenly mother then would she not want us to honor and worship our Father, her husband. They are as much one in purpose and order as the Savior and the Father... they rule together and out of deference for her and my love and trust in my Heavenly Father I want to even more follow Father and worship according to father's directive and mother in Heaven would absolutely want the same. She supports God the father and is not in competition with him.. All things in order...
In a recent Come, Follow Me or the seminary manual, I learned that what was translated as "jealous" actually means "sensitive" or "strict."
Yes the connotation has changed the last 400 years.
It means zealous .
We gotta have a HEAVENLY MOTHER, because of this CHURCH belief in ETERNAL MARRIAGE
Only vain mortal men and women would think the our perfected Mother would need our verbal mention in prayer so She and the Father have "equal time". Please God bring the cleansing. We are quite ripe for destruction.
I appreciate the overview of this topic. I am waiting anxiously for further revelation regarding my HM. The argument that she is too holy to be discussed always falls flat for me. But in any argument between academics and church leaders, I side with the church every time!
I agree on both of your points. Too dismissive.
Brigham Young tried to get the saints to accept further light on that subject, but he wisely spoke on it less forcefully and less often when they rejected his teachings.
My mom knew Sonia Johnson, who began receiving "revelations" from Heavenly Mother, was excommunicated, and is now atheist.
The notion has also floated about that the Holy Ghost is our Mother in Heaven and as such part of the Godhead. This is so wrong in so many ways that one cannot understand why anyone would throw this out there without thinking it through. The Holy Ghost does not have a body of flesh and bones as does the Father and the Son (D&C 130:22; 129:2) ... How can our Mother in Heaven BE our Mother in Heaven without Her resurrection and exaltation with a glorified body of flesh and bones? And this point is only the FIRST objection to such a hypothesis as there are many other objections just as definitive.
Yes, this idea has had legs. Not consistent with doctrine however.
It's been some people's ways of trying to squeeze Heavenly Mother into the Godhead. Essentially ignoring the doctrine and making up their own.
It is very interesting to me that Ashera's symbol is the tree, and the Savior was crucified on a "tree". It could be that there is some more symbolism there. DISCLAIMER: I am not attempting to tout some obscure doctrine, it just dawned on me.
God also uses Trees to mean humanity and sons.
@@nanizon it's just interesting that the concept of nailing His body to the symbol of the tree, whether it be a symbol for Heavenly Mother, or the children of men, is intriguing and poignant.
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is also the Tree of Death (Judgement )
@@CwicShow dang I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing!!
It's mentioned in a line in the Hymn Oh My Father. I think in a good way
Time stamp 21:12 - "Jealous God" as used in Exodus 20:5 is a Hebrew word qannah meaning "possessing sensitive and deep feelings" (see footnote 5b). Nothing to do with the word jealous as we use it.
Pearson’s “Ghost of Eternal Polygamy” validates women’s fears by saying hundreds of women are struck with anxiety and turmoil at the implication but then leaves them without hope or a faith-affirming message.
Yes. A good woman who has done some great things, but she believes that polygamy was man-made by Joseph Smith.
I don't think it's several, I think the celestial standard is one of monogamy.
Our heavenly parents are one. To think of them separately is perhaps to mislead ourselves about their most enduring characteristics. Truly worshiping one means worshiping the other.
It is comparable to the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost being one. The world frequently confuses the concept. Are they separate? Well, physically, yes. In mission and mind? They are one. Unity is the preeminent lesson of this issue.
I am an educated working woman with a double major and an associates degree. I do not understand academia mixing in religion. I love Heavenly Father and I consider the corruption and pollution of precious things that God holds most I
Portent to him. Why on earth would He give us information to attack the most precious thing to him? I hope He does not give us more right now. It’s already repulsive to see what the world does to our Father and Savior.
It’s interesting and laughable, really, the way some judge God through the lens of human carnal sensitivities and/or political agendas. If we know that God is perfect then we also know that He can’t be a sexist, misogynistic, respecter of persons. The fact that we don’t know much about our Heavenly Mother shows that God knows it is best for it to be that way.
Personally the suggestion that you stated in this video make so much sense to me. There needs to be only one God if there is a to be order and unity among His children.
Thank you!
I would imagine also that the information that talked about Heavenly Mother has been tampered with, by those who didn’t want Her to be known.
It seems clear that, as Greg pointed out, we just wouldn't be able to handle the full spectrum. Essentially, we already worship two deities-the Father and the Son. Navigating the differences between how we worship each one is already somewhat difficult (for example, we must form a relationship with Christ, and yet we do not pray to him).
Throw in a third deity, and a female one at that? That's truth overload. How would we integrate that relationship into our worship? Even if we were given strict rules (e.g., only pray to the Father), we would inevitably mix things up and start worshipping trees, so to speak. Many women would likely be tempted to replace the Father with the Mother, perhaps even replace Christ with the Mother.
The fact is that only through Christ can we be saved and exalted. Not even through the Father can those two things be achieved. For lack of a better way to put it, more doctrine on Heavenly Mother would perhaps be a distraction-only because we are too weak and easily distracted.
Think of it like this: there are very few instances in scripture in which the Father speaks. Very few. Why? Because even the Father knows that our relationship with Christ is too important to risk distraction. Even Heavenly Father himself does not want to "get in the way" of that crucial relationship. Now obviously we come to the Father through the Savior. I don't mean to discount our relationship with the Father. Perhaps my wording could be more nuanced, but I think the basic point I'm trying to make is essentially correct.
As a side note, missionary work would likely be much much harder if we openly included Heavenly Mother in our worship. Mainstream Christians have a hard enough time accepting our view of the Godhead as it stands. I can't imagine the tantrums they would throw if we openly worshipped a Mother in Heaven, the wife of God.
Ben Shapiro addressed the issue of molding God to our own standards. He made the point that we change God to be a being who accepts us as we are. Who makes no demands and doesn’t expect us to grow and become better than we are: as you’ve spoken of, a “Teddy Bear”. I think God has also been changed to a female through speculation. As we do this, God himself becomes our golden calf.
The West is caught up in Expressive Individualism.
Elohim in Hebrew is plural. I don't think it's far-fetched to think of father and mother as being one as the father and the Savior are one. I believe she is his equal in every way even though they do play different roles. I think about what Jesus said to Phillip, "if you have seen me you have seen the father" but that would be speculation. Or would it.
That would be what Feminists believe, that God is Female when we know that God is male and female, all in all.
@@dorar6123 I don’t doubt that you are correct- that makes sense. The truth is though, we don’t have all of the answers and that’s okay. I think that’s what Elder Renlund was saying.
@@CwicShow I don't feel like molding God in my own image, what I feel to imagine is that he is so much incredibly bigger and better than I am.
I have no problem with the idea of Heavenly Mother. Something about the idea is incredibly appealing to me, and I would love it if we got more knowledge on the topic. I've settled on this being like the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. Why don't we have it? Well, have we really made the most of what we already have? I don't think so. Do you want the Church learn more of Heavenly Mother? Make the most of your knowledge of, and relationship with, Heavenly Father.