Bettman, the owners, and the refs all have a strong incentive for American teams to win, since the league only expands if it expands the US market. Everyone knows which side of the bread is buttered. They don't need a grand conspiracy. It's in everyone's best interest for Canadian teams to lose.
@@byrd-is-the-word Well we kind of won. We didn't get Canada but we got everything from the Great Lakes down to the Ohio River, which the British claimed. That's why the War of 1812 is generally considered a draw.
Remember, it's always Bettman. If you stub your toe, Bettman put that object there for you to stub it on. You trip and fall? Bettman placed that curb there! The War of 1812? Bettman started it! Your food at a restaurant comes to you cold.. eh you might wanna talk to the chef about that BUT NO IT WAS BETTMAN! IT'S ALWAYS BETTMAN!!!
You should make a history video on how the team "organization" has evolved over the years. From just owners and player coaches to the huge staff for teams we see today.
Agreed on the point that the fighting stigma is still in full force among non fans in the US. Literally every single time I encounter a non fan and mention hockey, it goes this way: “Oh hockey, yeah that has fights every game, right? Bet that’s fun. No, I’ve never been to a game.” Doesn’t matter if it’s a hockey market or not. If they aren’t already fans, they seem to think Slapshot and Goon are the way NHL games go
One of the problems early on with Quebec was they were owned by Carling-O'Keefe brewers. In Canada hockey was sponsored by Molson, and Molson owned the Canadiens..
That's correct, but that wasn't a problem with Quebec. when the financial landscape of hockey changed, that spelled the end of Les Nordiques .Eric Lindros refusing to play there didn't help either and I understand about the language issues but if the Stastny brothers could go there hardly able to speak English and no French at all and learned..anyone can.
@@DBSG1976 He wasn't part of the PHWA; just normal broadcast media. Jeremy Jacobs rarely does public interviews (maybe once a year), so if you sit down with him as a reporter and don't toss him softballs, he will bury you if he can. It's pure speculation but there's a lot of evidence backing it up.
Gary Bettman is an employee of the owners. He has a job at the owner's discretion. If they wanted him out, they could fire him and find someone else. The more we hate on Bettman, the more the owners who actually set the rules we may or may not like are happy because it takes the heat off them. So let's face it, whether we like it or not, Gary Bettman does his job well. He goes out there in front of the cameras and takes the heat. He's not responsible for anything. He's just doing the job he was hired to do. He wasn't hired to make fans happy. He was hired to make money for the owners. He's done that.
Just to add to comment. Over half the current owners are now NHL owners under Bettman's tenure. They are kinda dependent on him to keep the value of their franchises by not folding. The NHL owners and their revenue sharing is kinda socialistic. Many of these new owners are dependent on the NHL revenue rich teams to partially support them.
I'm surprised that Shannon, the wrestling fan he is/was, didn't just say "Bettman is the heel of the league." He's not the bad guy but he plays the part and frankly plays it well if he doesn't outright enjoy it. He's the Hockey version of Vince McMahon (though hopefully with less sexual assault and employee abuse issues behind the scenes)
This is such a great insight and breakdown into what goes into the NHL. Interesting to see the metro population of Quebec City being smaller than some AHL teams
Very informative video. As a kid growing up in NYC, loved the fighting. Today without fighting, it’s hard to watch dumping and chasing pucks. I know it will never happen because the league depends to attendance for about 40% of revenue but, the rink needs to be widened to international hockey standards. That would create more free flowing game and more excitement.
It has always been incredibly odd to me that when people talk about Bettman they always fail to mention his involvement in the War of 1812 and all of those war crimes; and furthermore how that experience led to him being in charge of all of that false marketing 100 years later with the sinking of the titanic that was, according to Bettman “unsinkable”. I think that both of those events give a lot of insight to how Bettman has performed as commissioner of the NHL. For example, both of those experiences early in his led to him signing off on digital ads on the boards and then him telling me I’m a gambling addict because I get distracted when Matthew Tkachuk and Charlie McAvoy are battling for a puck in the corner and then both magically disappear behind a moving MGM logo. Ridiculous, the guy is obviously a vampire.
Fun fact. According to "Shorthanded: The Untold History of the Seals" Labbat's made a pitch in 1968 to buy the Seals and move them to Vancouver. I wonder how different it would have been if the NHL was ok with that deal. Who would have entered in expansion in 1970 other than Buffalo?
I agree. It may not be perfect but he has evolved the sport and the business side, which just happens to be vital for any commercial pro sports. Sure, I don't agree with the NHL player safety of many of the cases where pretty ugly stuff gets laughable fines instead of even short suspension but probably anyone who has watched NHL at least from since 90's like me agrees that the game is much less (unnecessarily) violent and has created space for the skill. Give some love for Gary. Oh boy. I'm going to get flak for that. 😂
@@Bob-wy6zv I absolutely love Canadian hockey at it's best so my stance as a Finn is yep. It is not pitch perfect. Given a god mode, I'd have all of Canada have mnajor cities teams. But I don't. Commercialism of NHL is a thing to factor in. What Shannon said... Billion for mere expanding contract? You go easily north of 2 with all the rest. Oh my dog. If you have ideas how hockey works here.... I say NHL is a clean cut nice league. Would take a long convo to explain "SM Liiga". Better but we do give trollys of shit for what it is. Peace bro. :D
@@Bob-wy6zv I think realistically you are spot on on and there is most likely never ever Anchorage team as much as it viles me. This is an economic circut. What I am saying is, with all that is certain from business standpoint isn't what I love. As a hockey lover... There is no team in foreseeable future in Anchorage. I mean I want it but do not get it. Oh boy. :) Anyway, interesting thing I started to think about expansionss and conferences. NHL has certain uniqueness how conferences play out. You really don't see that in Finnish hockey league. Just saying... They done at least something right. :)
That's the best take. Bettman represents the owners like how sports agents represents their clients. He is the owners' buffer and their executor. If he didn't serve the owners, they would just oust him and replace him, pure and simple.
Seems to me Toronto could easily support two franchises. Yankees/Mets, White Sox/Cubs, Giants/Jets... (And the bonus for Toronto: the new team wouldn't be cursed!)
A few years a Toronto area businessman wanted to have a NHL franchise in Markham (just north of Toronto). The problem was he wanted the land to build the arena to be donated by the city (taxpayers). He agreed to build the arena, but the city (taxpayers) would have to pay for any operating loses caused by the arena. Kinda of the same issue in Arizona. The Skydome in Toronto was built and owned by the city and cost 600 million to build. Due to swelling operating costs and loses, the city sold Skydome years later for 78 million.
i will admit i used to say Bettman Hated Canada and Canadians Teams As a Joke cause other people were saying it lol. Tho Despite the ups on Downs with Bettman, he has done some Good things for the NHL during his time
When the WHA was going to fold, the NHL owners certainly didn't want any "merger" teams, they wanted true expansion team. David Molson owner of the Canadians and Senator told the other owners that he would be be the most hated person in Quebec if Nordiques didn't get an NHL franchise. Ben Haskins owners of WHA Jets, told Molson, he (Molsons) wouldn't sell a beer west of Ontario if Winnipeg was denied an NHL franchise. Quebec, Winnipeg, Edmonton got their franchises.
In these years, media companies have replace beer companies. While I still think Quebecor would be a good owner for a team in the province of Quebec, I think also that the position of Quebecor in a market against Bell, Rogers and other partners, like the Thomson family in WPG, of actual NHL owners, have tempered Quebec City odds to get a team. The NHL board of governors is a tight ship of 32+ business partners, never forget that.
That franchise was poorly financed and operated throughout its entire existence. They played in Oakland, which gave an excuse for San Francisco to ignore them. The team had some talent. Dennis Maruk, Charlie Simmer, Bob Stewart and Gllles Meloche, to name a few. They moved to Northeast Ohio in 1976 and lasted two years in the most miserable winters in my 61 year life. The Gund brothers merged them with the North Stars in 1978.
The municipalities in and around Phoenix don't seem to want an arena. They turned down rehabbing a landfill to block an arena. I think a Hamilton team probably makes more sense than Quebec unfortunately. Saskatoon's opportunity passed in the 80's. If Bill Hunter had been able to establish a team then Saskatoon might have thrived but current costs probably exclude a team going there now. It probably would be a great place for an AHL franchise though. Perhaps the Oilers should consider relocating Bakersfield to Saskatoon.
NHL’s focus should be (probably already is) to lower their dependence on attendance money… this single thing probably eliminates any Canadian expansion… Canada is great for hockey, but it’s difficult from business perspective… Winnipeg is the major example of great hockey market struggling… btw, I’m mildly surprised that we don’t have more teams in Toronto/Montreal as we see in New York… 😅 they would definitely work (I thought more as past expansions not future)
Of the 4 major North American professional sports commissioners, (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL), Bettman has been the best. Hockey is the most challenged because you need ice and expensive equipment, which eliminates many, many potential players and participants. Despite those challenges, Bettman has done a good job of growing and promoting the sport. The worst, by far and away, is Rob Manfred of MLB.
Hockey in atlanta and arizona can work. The biggest obstacle would be the board actually vetting ownership candidates and habing some sort of financial plan and actual vision for the franchises lasting 10+ years with all sorts of short term goals to meet along with the long term plans.
Houston AHL team drew 10k fans a game. NHL will do great. Why do you think Dallas advertises as "Texas Hockey"? Because they KNOW Houston is getting the next expansion franchise.
@@ronreinhold8997The NHL doesn’t have to compete with baseball! Their seasons don’t overlap that much. And I think Houston will support the NHL and NBA at the same time. Greater Houston is over 7.5 million and there are an enormous amount of ex-Canadians and ex-Northerners in Houston who supported the IHL/AHL Aeros and will support an NHL team even more passionately.
Uncle Gary helped keep my penguins where they belong in the steel city. I say 10 hail Gary's in the morning and another 10 hail Gary's before I go to bed. Long may he reign
Oakland at the time had a very aggressive "sports committee", and had great success for a while selling their city as a major league market, including inducing both the MLB A's and the NBA Warriors to move to Oakland and the NHL to expand there. The Raiders were the only team native to Oakland. The success was short lived because Oakland is no more a Major League market than Quebec is and all four teams left, the A's finally going out the door 50+ years after the original mistake was made. The NHL was sold a bill of good moving into Oakland and financial realities hastened their departure to the not much greener grass of Cleveland. Oakland also built a brand new stadium and arena as an inducement to teams, but within 15 years, the original Oakland team, the Raiders, was bailing out and escaping to LA. Thus, the NHL choosing Oakland over Vancouver in the original expansion.
I understood, as a Canadian, that he saved a few teams in Canada, Quebec died because of the owner, I am not sure about what happened in Winnipeg the first time around, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was ownership as well. Ya, it happened to two Canadian teams, it has happened to quite a few American ones as well.
IMO, best thing for the NHL to do for Quebec if they don’t get a franchise if they expand to 36, is to have teams play regular season games in Quebec. Similar to what the NFL does in London.
I agree that team 36 will likely be in Canada. Of course, the smart move would be to put that team in GTA rather than Quebec City. But if there's two things in this world that go hand in hand, it's Maple Leaf's ownership and preventing smart moves.
Halifax is a bit of different situation, I think. A team in that city, because there isn't any other team remotely close to the Maritimes, would have a wide reach in terms of garnering new fans. I'm from PEI, and I know that I'd jump on the bandwagon of a Halifax team if they ever expanded to there. The city of Halifax, as big and sprawling as it is already, would have considerable area reach to fans who are in close proximity, likely encompassing a large majority of people who live in NB and PEI as well. People would be willing to make the trips to travel there. I'm not saying I think Halifax is there yet, but I don't think they are a poor option as well. They would definitely have to build a better and bigger facility, but I don't think there would be any trouble supporting a team. Using HRM's population alone isn't enough to measure the amount of people who would come to see their games.
I rank Gary Bettman poorly on several fronts, esp. work stoppages and how he handled Phoenix. But people tend to pin things on him that have nothing to do with him. Moreover, no one complaining about him (myself included) ever names a suitable alternative. It's more the absurdity of sports commisoners in general we're criticizing than Bettman himself.
There is going to be a John Spano video? That should be fascinating...two key features...Due Diligence and the Stars ownership change and why Spano was rejected the first time but not the second time.
I’ve only ever made one AI Image Prompt…. I asked it to make a rendering of Gary Bettman wearing a crown. I wish I could post it here. It’s now my phone background. Forever King Bettman! 🤣
I find that Bettman was perhaps one of the best things to happen to the NHL. Without him being the punching bag of the league, among other things, I don't think the NHL would be as big as it is today - not to mention the sheer crop of talent that plays in the NHL today. Even the Arizona Coyotes made a big impact; both Austin Matthews and Matthew Knies are Phoenix natives, and they likely were drawn to the game because of that team. Only one question for you though, THG... ...How much did Bettman bribe you for this video? :P j/k
I was really learning the game in early 90’s. It was exciting and fast paced. Loved watching the Pengs skate. Then the strike and lockout in 2-3 years. It was the players and league telling fans screw you, so I bailed. When you tell me you don’t want my dollars I can oblige. Now with team in Utah I’m coming back. Hopefully there won’t be a screw you to the fans like they did in 90’s.
Last year, Bettman surpassed David Stern (commissioner of the NBA from 1984 to 2014) as the longest-tenured commissioner in the history of major North American sports leagues.
Someone that's more motivated than me needs to do a compilation of the Scooby Doo gang pulling off masks and every time it's Bettman. "And I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for you pesky GMs!"
I had a friend that worked in the same department as Bettman in the NBA offices in the late 80s. She described him as a miserable joyless human being that enjoyed being hated. The type of person who would be the lawyer for a Bond villian
The league was in a hard spot as that was concerned. Norm didn't want to sell the team to someone else wanting to move it, he wanted to keep it *and* move it. And based on the precedent the Feds established when they ruled in Al Davis' favour, it was going to be tough to work around that. Mind you, it all looked ridiculous when he just ended up selling it to another owner less than a year after moving them. 🥵🤢😡
Not sure if anyone else here has commented this, but from what I've always read, for the 1967 expansion, Toronto & Montreal didn't want a team added in Canada because they didn't want to share tv money with a third team. In fact, if US tv networks didn't tell the NHL that they were considering broadcasting WHL games instead of NHL games, I don't think the NHL would have ever expanded beyond six teams. I believe a big reason Vancouver was added to the league was to try to keep the WHA out of that market, not because Toronto or Montreal wanted a team there & were suddenly ok with sharing the tv money. I have the impression that the owners back in the 1960s didn't like sharing revenue at all, and didn't feel like any other city was a real "hockey market" worthy of an NHL team. As far as Bettman goes, he has done a good job growing the audience for a sport that isn't easy to get into. It might never have the kind of numbers that football, baseball or basketball has, but it doesn't need to in order to be successful.
If there is a business case for Quebec City, it needs to be marketed as Quebec’s second team, like Alberta and Ontario. The media market and corporation networks of the whole province are so intertwined that the answer will come from the Montreal Canadiens. When a prospective owner in QC will demonstrate that they can increase revenues from the whole province for the league and both teams, they will get a team. Until then forget it.
They wanted San Francisco but there was no suitable place to play. Oakland had the new Alameda County Coliseum which drew the San Francisco Warriors of the NBA to the East Bay. The problem was no one from San Francisco wanted to come over to Oakland to watch the Seals and of course the comedic ownership of Charlie Finley made things worse like having the players wear white skates...
Re: expansion Yes, it was faster back then - but new talent pools opened. There were SOME Scandinavians, but not many. Now, we added Eastern Europeans and Russians. So you largely increased the talent pool to draw from. What talent pool opens with the next expansion? And yeah., that is not just Bettman. But if you want to be the frontman for an Axis of Evil (Darth Jacobs, et al) you get some of the hate
I thought Vancouver didn't get a team because Toronto and Montreal didn't want to share tv revenue with another Canadian team? At least going by Wikipedia.
imagine seeing Crosby, Mackinnon and Marchand come back to play in Halifax? it would be such a great story, but as much as I'd love Halifax to have an NHL team, I dont think it would be sustainable. The economic health of Nova Scotians is terribly fragile right now. If Quebec City cannot support a team, then Halifax in no way can support a team.
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.15 (3/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IVwR87OH0_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Surprised that you do not have Gary Bettman as being responsible for the war of 1812.
He's even responsible for it ending in 1815. Truly a man of false advertising
Bettman, the owners, and the refs all have a strong incentive for American teams to win, since the league only expands if it expands the US market. Everyone knows which side of the bread is buttered. They don't need a grand conspiracy. It's in everyone's best interest for Canadian teams to lose.
People (American expansionist war hawks) like Bettman did indeed start the War of 1812 to 1814 .. and lost it .. !!
He will get to that , part 2 comes out in a few hours
@@byrd-is-the-word Well we kind of won. We didn't get Canada but we got everything from the Great Lakes down to the Ohio River, which the British claimed. That's why the War of 1812 is generally considered a draw.
For a second I thought Gary was going to call you again which would’ve been perfect timing because I was just thinking of those videos today! 😂
Were you the chap who commented on the earlier video? First thought when I saw this video came out
Remember, it's always Bettman. If you stub your toe, Bettman put that object there for you to stub it on. You trip and fall? Bettman placed that curb there! The War of 1812? Bettman started it! Your food at a restaurant comes to you cold.. eh you might wanna talk to the chef about that BUT NO IT WAS BETTMAN! IT'S ALWAYS BETTMAN!!!
I think your videos on the business side of Pro Sports is some of your best work THG.
100%. It's rare to see anyone do deep dives into the business side of sports.
Gary Bettman's aura is so strong that he served 40 years from 1993 to 2023
@@antoinesauve2695 sure feels like 40
He's not the emperor of the NHL, he just represents and speaks for the ownership group as a whole. That said, I still enjoy blaming everything on him.
I swear, some people think he controls everything.
Exactly. Gary works for the owners. Lmao. That includes the canadian team owners.
You should make a history video on how the team "organization" has evolved over the years. From just owners and player coaches to the huge staff for teams we see today.
He's literally behind everything. Literally actually. He's right there! We can all see him on the file cabinet!
Sometimes Gary actually is Shannon. Shannon is played by 3 people, Gary is one of them. 😆
Feel like the Vader jersey fits nicely, especially with the topic on hand
The jersey/video subject pairing is inspired.
Agreed on the point that the fighting stigma is still in full force among non fans in the US. Literally every single time I encounter a non fan and mention hockey, it goes this way:
“Oh hockey, yeah that has fights every game, right? Bet that’s fun. No, I’ve never been to a game.”
Doesn’t matter if it’s a hockey market or not. If they aren’t already fans, they seem to think Slapshot and Goon are the way NHL games go
That’s always been a selling point amongst the people I know. Even an uncle who grew up playing hockey.
One of the problems early on with Quebec was they were owned by Carling-O'Keefe brewers. In Canada hockey was sponsored by Molson, and Molson owned the Canadiens..
That's correct, but that wasn't a problem with Quebec. when the financial landscape of hockey changed, that spelled the end of Les Nordiques .Eric Lindros refusing to play there didn't help either and I understand about the language issues but if the Stastny brothers could go there hardly able to speak English and no French at all and learned..anyone can.
Bettman actually caused my parents divorce. He didn’t do anything but he is behind everything so 🤷🏼♂️
Barkov could probably save the marriage
That quote about Quebec City likely got Doug MacLean fired from Sportsnet for asking said question.
I wasn't familiar with MacLean but I heard he was a very popular sportscaster.
@@DBSG1976 He wasn't part of the PHWA; just normal broadcast media. Jeremy Jacobs rarely does public interviews (maybe once a year), so if you sit down with him as a reporter and don't toss him softballs, he will bury you if he can. It's pure speculation but there's a lot of evidence backing it up.
Gary Bettman is an employee of the owners. He has a job at the owner's discretion. If they wanted him out, they could fire him and find someone else. The more we hate on Bettman, the more the owners who actually set the rules we may or may not like are happy because it takes the heat off them. So let's face it, whether we like it or not, Gary Bettman does his job well. He goes out there in front of the cameras and takes the heat. He's not responsible for anything. He's just doing the job he was hired to do. He wasn't hired to make fans happy. He was hired to make money for the owners. He's done that.
Just to add to comment. Over half the current owners are now NHL owners under Bettman's tenure. They are kinda dependent on him to keep the value of their franchises by not folding. The NHL owners and their revenue sharing is kinda socialistic. Many of these new owners are dependent on the NHL revenue rich teams to partially support them.
I'm surprised that Shannon, the wrestling fan he is/was, didn't just say "Bettman is the heel of the league." He's not the bad guy but he plays the part and frankly plays it well if he doesn't outright enjoy it. He's the Hockey version of Vince McMahon (though hopefully with less sexual assault and employee abuse issues behind the scenes)
This is such a great insight and breakdown into what goes into the NHL. Interesting to see the metro population of Quebec City being smaller than some AHL teams
Very informative video. As a kid growing up in NYC, loved the fighting. Today without fighting, it’s hard to watch dumping and chasing pucks. I know it will never happen because the league depends to attendance for about 40% of revenue but, the rink needs to be widened to international hockey standards. That would create more free flowing game and more excitement.
I like your take on the situation. it’s very pragmatic without any emotional arguments. good job.
It has always been incredibly odd to me that when people talk about Bettman they always fail to mention his involvement in the War of 1812 and all of those war crimes; and furthermore how that experience led to him being in charge of all of that false marketing 100 years later with the sinking of the titanic that was, according to Bettman “unsinkable”. I think that both of those events give a lot of insight to how Bettman has performed as commissioner of the NHL. For example, both of those experiences early in his led to him signing off on digital ads on the boards and then him telling me I’m a gambling addict because I get distracted when Matthew Tkachuk and Charlie McAvoy are battling for a puck in the corner and then both magically disappear behind a moving MGM logo. Ridiculous, the guy is obviously a vampire.
Fun fact. According to "Shorthanded: The Untold History of the Seals" Labbat's made a pitch in 1968 to buy the Seals and move them to Vancouver. I wonder how different it would have been if the NHL was ok with that deal. Who would have entered in expansion in 1970 other than Buffalo?
Cleveland, Baltimore, maybe Seattle.
I absolutely LOVE this business videos. More of these, I'm like a sponge soaking up the knowledge here!
We got The Hockey Guy being claimed as an NHL industry plant before GTA 6
2023 was bettman’s 30 year anniversary of being commish (not 40th
A video about Bettman needs to start off with the obvious.
"Booooooo!"
- Agatha - Bettman all along
😅
I don't hate bettman. That man made nhl more money. There is stuff i don't agree. But , the league wouldn't be where it is at without him.
I agree. It may not be perfect but he has evolved the sport and the business side, which just happens to be vital for any commercial pro sports. Sure, I don't agree with the NHL player safety of many of the cases where pretty ugly stuff gets laughable fines instead of even short suspension but probably anyone who has watched NHL at least from since 90's like me agrees that the game is much less (unnecessarily) violent and has created space for the skill. Give some love for Gary. Oh boy. I'm going to get flak for that. 😂
I do agree but I believe that the city of Anchorage would get an NHL team before another Canadian City as long as he is Commissioner
@@Bob-wy6zv I absolutely love Canadian hockey at it's best so my stance as a Finn is yep. It is not pitch perfect. Given a god mode, I'd have all of Canada have mnajor cities teams. But I don't. Commercialism of NHL is a thing to factor in. What Shannon said... Billion for mere expanding contract? You go easily north of 2 with all the rest. Oh my dog. If you have ideas how hockey works here.... I say NHL is a clean cut nice league. Would take a long convo to explain "SM Liiga". Better but we do give trollys of shit for what it is. Peace bro. :D
@@Bob-wy6zv I think realistically you are spot on on and there is most likely never ever Anchorage team as much as it viles me. This is an economic circut. What I am saying is, with all that is certain from business standpoint isn't what I love. As a hockey lover... There is no team in foreseeable future in Anchorage. I mean I want it but do not get it. Oh boy. :) Anyway, interesting thing I started to think about expansionss and conferences. NHL has certain uniqueness how conferences play out. You really don't see that in Finnish hockey league. Just saying... They done at least something right. :)
That's the best take. Bettman represents the owners like how sports agents represents their clients. He is the owners' buffer and their executor. If he didn't serve the owners, they would just oust him and replace him, pure and simple.
I really like how informative you are in these more business sided hockey videos, and would love to see more
Seems to me Toronto could easily support two franchises. Yankees/Mets, White Sox/Cubs, Giants/Jets... (And the bonus for Toronto: the new team wouldn't be cursed!)
A few years a Toronto area businessman wanted to have a NHL franchise in Markham (just north of Toronto). The problem was he wanted the land to build the arena to be donated by the city (taxpayers). He agreed to build the arena, but the city (taxpayers) would have to pay for any operating loses caused by the arena. Kinda of the same issue in Arizona. The Skydome in Toronto was built and owned by the city and cost 600 million to build. Due to swelling operating costs and loses, the city sold Skydome years later for 78 million.
Might want to send the Marlies out of town - remember, they also have their AHL team there. Hamilton would almost be a second Toronto team too
i will admit i used to say Bettman Hated Canada and Canadians Teams As a Joke cause other people were saying it lol. Tho Despite the ups on Downs with Bettman, he has done some Good things for the NHL during his time
One point about Oakland in 1967 is that having two teams in California was a condition of getting s network TV desl in the states
When the WHA was going to fold, the NHL owners certainly didn't want any "merger" teams, they wanted true expansion team. David Molson owner of the Canadians and Senator told the other owners that he would be be the most hated person in Quebec if Nordiques didn't get an NHL franchise. Ben Haskins owners of WHA Jets, told Molson, he (Molsons) wouldn't sell a beer west of Ontario if Winnipeg was denied an NHL franchise. Quebec, Winnipeg, Edmonton got their franchises.
In these years, media companies have replace beer companies. While I still think Quebecor would be a good owner for a team in the province of Quebec, I think also that the position of Quebecor in a market against Bell, Rogers and other partners, like the Thomson family in WPG, of actual NHL owners, have tempered Quebec City odds to get a team. The NHL board of governors is a tight ship of 32+ business partners, never forget that.
Gary Bettman let my lawnmower run for 7 hours and drained the tank. Dude sucks
Great vid again THG, informative, educational and in depth thank you for all your hard work 👍👍👍
Remember, Oakland gave two of 12 teams in the West, similar to the Dodgers/Giants move. Was travel costs and national TV an issue?
That franchise was poorly financed and operated throughout its entire existence. They played in Oakland, which gave an excuse for San Francisco to ignore them.
The team had some talent. Dennis Maruk, Charlie Simmer, Bob Stewart and Gllles Meloche, to name a few. They moved to Northeast Ohio in 1976 and lasted two years in the most miserable winters in my 61 year life. The Gund brothers merged them with the North Stars in 1978.
Clicked thinking it would be another funny Gary call. Turns out this was a serious off the cuff essay!
I knew it was all Gary's fault. He probably knows where Jimmy Hoffa is.
in 1967 Bettman was 15, I believe he is a lifelong fan of the New York Rangers he is from Queens
Is Bettman even a fan of hockey??🤔. He's a fan being a commissioner in North America.
The municipalities in and around Phoenix don't seem to want an arena. They turned down rehabbing a landfill to block an arena.
I think a Hamilton team probably makes more sense than Quebec unfortunately.
Saskatoon's opportunity passed in the 80's. If Bill Hunter had been able to establish a team then Saskatoon might have thrived but current costs probably exclude a team going there now. It probably would be a great place for an AHL franchise though. Perhaps the Oilers should consider relocating Bakersfield to Saskatoon.
This is a very important video for many who don't understand the business side of the NHL. Thank you Shannon! I'll share this.
NHL’s focus should be (probably already is) to lower their dependence on attendance money… this single thing probably eliminates any Canadian expansion… Canada is great for hockey, but it’s difficult from business perspective… Winnipeg is the major example of great hockey market struggling…
btw, I’m mildly surprised that we don’t have more teams in Toronto/Montreal as we see in New York… 😅 they would definitely work (I thought more as past expansions not future)
On balance Bettman has been an excellent Commissioner. Not perfect, but he has done great work
Ok a series about various owners would be cool including Jacobs, Illitch, Ballard, and Lemieux among others.
Never loved that picture being there. But I understood it.
Of the 4 major North American professional sports commissioners, (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL), Bettman has been the best. Hockey is the most challenged because you need ice and expensive equipment, which eliminates many, many potential players and participants. Despite those challenges, Bettman has done a good job of growing and promoting the sport.
The worst, by far and away, is Rob Manfred of MLB.
Hockey in atlanta and arizona can work. The biggest obstacle would be the board actually vetting ownership candidates and habing some sort of financial plan and actual vision for the franchises lasting 10+ years with all sorts of short term goals to meet along with the long term plans.
We need Gary to step in and fix the EA hockey game, it's a disservice to the great game of Hockey.
Excellent video as always!
Flames nearly relocated in the late 90s. It was an awful time :(
In 1967, they had to put 2 teams in California in order to get a TV contract.
Very informative. Thanks, Shannon.
This was great information. Thanks for doing this video
Houston is a giant sports market. I think the nhl will do well
Houston AHL team drew 10k fans a game. NHL will do great. Why do you think Dallas advertises as "Texas Hockey"? Because they KNOW Houston is getting the next expansion franchise.
@KellanMarr2 I know the Rangers and Astros dislike each other, the nhl could create a great rivalry by adding houston
Houston is an MLB town with the best team over the last 10 years. Going to be tough for NHL to compete with this.
@@ronreinhold8997The NHL doesn’t have to compete with baseball! Their seasons don’t overlap that much. And I think Houston will support the NHL and NBA at the same time. Greater Houston is over 7.5 million and there are an enormous amount of ex-Canadians and ex-Northerners in Houston who supported the IHL/AHL Aeros and will support an NHL team even more passionately.
It's honestly a when rather than an if
They wanted the Bay area so that CBS would be interested in a TV deal.
This was pretty informative. Thanks!
Obligatory BOOOOOOOO
Uncle Gary helped keep my penguins where they belong in the steel city. I say 10 hail Gary's in the morning and another 10 hail Gary's before I go to bed. Long may he reign
Bettman slept with Lumbergh, and moved my stapler. I feel it in my flair.
Oakland at the time had a very aggressive "sports committee", and had great success for a while selling their city as a major league market, including inducing both the MLB A's and the NBA Warriors to move to Oakland and the NHL to expand there. The Raiders were the only team native to Oakland.
The success was short lived because Oakland is no more a Major League market than Quebec is and all four teams left, the A's finally going out the door 50+ years after the original mistake was made. The NHL was sold a bill of good moving into Oakland and financial realities hastened their departure to the not much greener grass of Cleveland. Oakland also built a brand new stadium and arena as an inducement to teams, but within 15 years, the original Oakland team, the Raiders, was bailing out and escaping to LA. Thus, the NHL choosing Oakland over Vancouver in the original expansion.
I understood, as a Canadian, that he saved a few teams in Canada, Quebec died because of the owner, I am not sure about what happened in Winnipeg the first time around, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was ownership as well. Ya, it happened to two Canadian teams, it has happened to quite a few American ones as well.
Bettman caused all of the traffic on the LA freeways
IMO, best thing for the NHL to do for Quebec if they don’t get a franchise if they expand to 36, is to have teams play regular season games in Quebec. Similar to what the NFL does in London.
can you look into making a video on how houston could/will/can get a team and the expansion process as a whole?
I agree that team 36 will likely be in Canada. Of course, the smart move would be to put that team in GTA rather than Quebec City. But if there's two things in this world that go hand in hand, it's Maple Leaf's ownership and preventing smart moves.
Halifax is a bit of different situation, I think. A team in that city, because there isn't any other team remotely close to the Maritimes, would have a wide reach in terms of garnering new fans. I'm from PEI, and I know that I'd jump on the bandwagon of a Halifax team if they ever expanded to there. The city of Halifax, as big and sprawling as it is already, would have considerable area reach to fans who are in close proximity, likely encompassing a large majority of people who live in NB and PEI as well. People would be willing to make the trips to travel there. I'm not saying I think Halifax is there yet, but I don't think they are a poor option as well. They would definitely have to build a better and bigger facility, but I don't think there would be any trouble supporting a team. Using HRM's population alone isn't enough to measure the amount of people who would come to see their games.
I rank Gary Bettman poorly on several fronts, esp. work stoppages and how he handled Phoenix. But people tend to pin things on him that have nothing to do with him. Moreover, no one complaining about him (myself included) ever names a suitable alternative. It's more the absurdity of sports commisoners in general we're criticizing than Bettman himself.
I know you mentioned windsor, but it’s literally Canadian Detroit.
I may or may not thought Gary was about to call
There is going to be a John Spano video? That should be fascinating...two key features...Due Diligence and the Stars ownership change and why Spano was rejected the first time but not the second time.
I’ve only ever made one AI Image Prompt…. I asked it to make a rendering of Gary Bettman wearing a crown. I wish I could post it here. It’s now my phone background. Forever King Bettman! 🤣
I find that Bettman was perhaps one of the best things to happen to the NHL. Without him being the punching bag of the league, among other things, I don't think the NHL would be as big as it is today - not to mention the sheer crop of talent that plays in the NHL today. Even the Arizona Coyotes made a big impact; both Austin Matthews and Matthew Knies are Phoenix natives, and they likely were drawn to the game because of that team.
Only one question for you though, THG...
...How much did Bettman bribe you for this video? :P j/k
I was really learning the game in early 90’s. It was exciting and fast paced. Loved watching the Pengs skate. Then the strike and lockout in 2-3 years. It was the players and league telling fans screw you, so I bailed. When you tell me you don’t want my dollars I can oblige. Now with team in Utah I’m coming back. Hopefully there won’t be a screw you to the fans like they did in 90’s.
Kraken tickets are like $200 for the nosebleeds 😅
Tickets nationwide have gone through the roof. The seats I liked for Stars games have doubled. Scalping has made it near triple.
So use your influence with Bettman to stop the stupid blackout rules for TV and let ESPN+ steam the NHL network games not everyone gets that channel.
I’m still waiting on the expansion to Greenland, go Nuuk Narwhales!
LOL the hockey guy has been cursed i could care shit to watch the video but support you because i trust your views enough...
The long term should be that the Swedish elite league is affiliated with the nhl somehow. Perhaps other big European leagues too.
Last year, Bettman surpassed David Stern (commissioner of the NBA from 1984 to 2014) as the longest-tenured commissioner in the history of major North American sports leagues.
Representative for Gary Bettman here, the answer is yes.
Someone that's more motivated than me needs to do a compilation of the Scooby Doo gang pulling off masks and every time it's Bettman.
"And I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for you pesky GMs!"
You can add Bill Wirtz to the list of bad owners. The Blackhawks didn't flourish until his son took over.
I had a friend that worked in the same department as Bettman in the NBA offices in the late 80s. She described him as a miserable joyless human being that enjoyed being hated. The type of person who would be the lawyer for a Bond villian
No reason taxpayers should subsidize a team like Quebec.
Especially when they could subsidize Saskatoon instead
@@donkeysaurusrex7881 lol
Spot on Shannon!
This American wants the Nordiques - Habs rivalry back
0:40 sums up the NHL. Bettman works for the owners; he's not some all powerful Sauron
Can we blame Bettman for letting the North Stars leave Minnesota?
The league was in a hard spot as that was concerned. Norm didn't want to sell the team to someone else wanting to move it, he wanted to keep it *and* move it. And based on the precedent the Feds established when they ruled in Al Davis' favour, it was going to be tough to work around that.
Mind you, it all looked ridiculous when he just ended up selling it to another owner less than a year after moving them. 🥵🤢😡
Not sure if anyone else here has commented this, but from what I've always read, for the 1967 expansion, Toronto & Montreal didn't want a team added in Canada because they didn't want to share tv money with a third team. In fact, if US tv networks didn't tell the NHL that they were considering broadcasting WHL games instead of NHL games, I don't think the NHL would have ever expanded beyond six teams. I believe a big reason Vancouver was added to the league was to try to keep the WHA out of that market, not because Toronto or Montreal wanted a team there & were suddenly ok with sharing the tv money. I have the impression that the owners back in the 1960s didn't like sharing revenue at all, and didn't feel like any other city was a real "hockey market" worthy of an NHL team.
As far as Bettman goes, he has done a good job growing the audience for a sport that isn't easy to get into. It might never have the kind of numbers that football, baseball or basketball has, but it doesn't need to in order to be successful.
Yep . I just made that comment a little bit ago you are spot on. and it was the future formation of the WHA that helped Vancouver get into the league
If there is a business case for Quebec City, it needs to be marketed as Quebec’s second team, like Alberta and Ontario. The media market and corporation networks of the whole province are so intertwined that the answer will come from the Montreal Canadiens. When a prospective owner in QC will demonstrate that they can increase revenues from the whole province for the league and both teams, they will get a team. Until then forget it.
If I recall correctly part of the reason they went to Oakland was because the new tv contract required two California teams.
They wanted San Francisco but there was no suitable place to play. Oakland had the new Alameda County Coliseum which drew the San Francisco Warriors of the NBA to the East Bay. The problem was no one from San Francisco wanted to come over to Oakland to watch the Seals and of course the comedic ownership of Charlie Finley made things worse like having the players wear white skates...
Bro that jersey is awesome, I want one
If Saskatoon was in the states it would be the 187th largest metro area ahead of Lynchburg, Virginia and behind Erie, Pennsylvania
Re: expansion
Yes, it was faster back then - but new talent pools opened. There were SOME Scandinavians, but not many. Now, we added Eastern Europeans and Russians. So you largely increased the talent pool to draw from. What talent pool opens with the next expansion?
And yeah., that is not just Bettman. But if you want to be the frontman for an Axis of Evil (Darth Jacobs, et al) you get some of the hate
I thought Vancouver didn't get a team because Toronto and Montreal didn't want to share tv revenue with another Canadian team? At least going by Wikipedia.
If the NHL had any integrity they would ban the Alcohol ads in memory of johnny hockey
If Kitchener got a team would they be the Lords or the Tommys?
@@WoozyPolarBear Lord Kitchener or what they called British soldiers in the Great War. Probably less creative than I thought.
THG for commissioner!
Yeah, let’s all boo the man who’s helped increase profitability & exposure for this sometimes-still-niche sport
I found out about this: the CJF Jackman Award for Excellence in Journalism. If your work is not excellent journalism, I don't know how to describe it.
Jacobs and Molson doesn't have any financial advantage to have the Nordiques back and it fricking sucks.
imagine seeing Crosby, Mackinnon and Marchand come back to play in Halifax? it would be such a great story, but as much as I'd love Halifax to have an NHL team, I dont think it would be sustainable. The economic health of Nova Scotians is terribly fragile right now. If Quebec City cannot support a team, then Halifax in no way can support a team.