The only mistake you made that I could catch was you assuming I could catch any of your mistakes. it all just looks like a start-to-finish process, and I just enjoy the ride. Yours is a channel I like watching, but I also come here to learn, and you teach well. Some that I watch, are just for that- watching. They don't really teach techniques, and to be fair, most of those channels I'm referring to don't promote themselves as tutorial videos; more just the joy of watching someone painting a miniature. But your channel is a two-for; we get the joy of watching someone paint, along with the tutelage of someone who knows what they're doing. Win-win. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
OH BOY, I ALWAYS WANTED TO WATCH VINCE PAINT A SHOULDERPAD FOR AN HOUR. But this is about 13 minutes. I personally, appreciate these "slower" videos as it helps me master that brush movement. You can tell me a hundred times how to do it, but I need to see it done slowly to fully understand.
What do you mean, futzing is stressful? That's my stress relief! I only stress over the fact that I have so much to paint and so little time. Bonus points for using the word "futzing" because it is a fantastic vocab word.
Hi Vince. Thanks for another very interesting and thought provoking video. Again it helped me accept the gulf between my perfectionist side wanting to do the best possible job and my skills not being capable of it (yet?!) Your comment about brush skills and paint knowledge having to be high before even contemplating this level of finish was very sobering but also very true. It was like saying "You can't apply to join this club until you have put the time and effort in." Through much of the video I was thinking of the parallels between this hobby and music. It has been said that it takes about ten thousand hours of practice before someone can be said to master an instrument and I suspect that the same is true here. Also, you have to spend time and effort to really "listen" to music to learn to hear every nuance in it whereas most people just listen for pleasure. In the same way you have to really "see" the mini to pick up the cues that the brain processes automatically. With that said, I don't think I have the patience or time to paint to this standard but the key is - that's okay! So long as I understand my limitations and manage my expectations I can still enjoy the hobby. I can also apply this to my guitars - I'll never be a virtuoso guitarist but so long as I understand that and get pleasure from playing - it's okay! 😆👍
Let me check if I can guess the two important corrections made : 1) The white front reflection, too small first then too large, the corrected to good size 2) The first glaze was too large and you had to redo the shadow just above the arm. Amazing as always. As an aspirant new painter who is focused reaching character and one day display level painting ,I had to the change the way is see a project. I was looking at a miniatures as a whole, working to get all part of the armor to the same level each time. Spending 20 hours before finishing the armor was discouraging, the reward was too far away. Now I don’t consider the mini as a whole, I am focusing on painting the left leg in golden NMM, painting it until I know that anymore paint would make it worse then I reward myself. Considering mini this way was the single most impactful decision I made to improve my painting.
If not for the expected (and instantly recognizable) series title, you could almost re-brand these types of videos as "the mini-painting philosopher" - because this video, in addition to the tutorial, really goes to the mindset behind painting. I think for most of us, 'futzing' is something we do even as we get to the point where we can consider display painting. Also, might just be my experience, but I think the understanding of light and volumes comes at different times for different 'textures' (I can do a pretty good red or purple cloak, starting to get leather texturing, but flesh tones are still hit and miss for example)
Wow this video lifted a lot of mental weight. For some reason I had this mental conception that experts paint well in the same amount of time it takes for me to do a 3 color minimum. I don't want to spend 45 min on a single shoulder pad. I'm going to finish this breaka boss troggoth now. Thank you.
The armor looks like a fine red wine - simply delicious! 4:00 I'll revisit in a few years because I don't think I have what it takes to get admitted to Display painting - I struggle with some of the basics because I barely ever have time to paint...
This video makes me feel better about all my futzing on the mini I've been painting for the last few days. The multiple OSL points has been challenging for me but the process sounds similar to what you describe: layering, examining, reacting, glazing (over and over again).
I'm sorry Vince, but I had to screenshot the last couple seconds. The finished work; It is beautiful! I try to touch brush to mini once a day, but during the dry spells, videos like this inspire me to continue. I love your attitude towards the craft, and am grateful to you for making these videos. Cheers!
I think your "pfutzing" might be similar to my idea of "endeavor" and I feel like it is one of the most under-rated keys to success in display painting. To me, endeavor means enlarging ones scope to observe and record smaller and smaller bits of visual information. For example, in the beginning, I thought a shoulder pad was so small that I was happy to paint within the lines--and I was happy with the result because I thought I'd achieved a level that was realistic for the scale. There was a subconscious process of simplification editing both my perception and execution that, as my skill has improved, has progressed along a scale but still exists. Probably we have to do that to prevent becoming overwhelmed. But, I feel like endeavor has to be pushed, or maybe it's like opening a door to give yourself permission to see and incorporate more subtle elements. I do know that it seems to go in steps--like, suddenly I'll realize that some feature that I'd been painting as a single element could actually be broken down into several different areas of detail, and from then on it seems effortless to incorporate that added level of detail. I just wish I could get into the habit of opening that door more often.
Great stuff as always. I struggle to visualize what I want the end result to be. At the same time if I'm being honest I think the real message here is to just sit and work at it. More of a mindset of giving significant effort to achieve something that pushes your boundaries, rather than just "getting it done".
Though I would not say I’m working on display models I sometimes find myself futzing and enjoying the futzing process. I sometimes do some futzing on models that I don’t particularly care too much about just to see what I can accomplish. Thanks for the video!
That's a pretty different approach compared to how I do it. My strategy has always been to try and shorten the time I need to paint a model as much as possible, and to use that saved time to paint more models. That's why I ultimately decided to abandon layering and glazing altogether, despite the fact I was getting some really good results with them. It took me some time, but I basicaly reinvented my painting style from scratch and can now paint much faster than before.
I am painting my first competition mini right now for a local small entry, there was one really good painter that always wins and my girlfriend said "you could do that" so now i have less than 10 days to refine my entry
You can do it! THe important part is even if you don't get him this time, you'll learn a bunch and come back next time even stronger, the learning is the best part of competing for sure.
Great video! I'm still painting my 3d printed totally-not-Sister-of-Battle 75mm mini. I'm trying to achieve NMM black metal armor. It's not looking perfect yet, but I'm on a journey to discover how to paint it. So far no secondary reflections, perpahs it's bad idea to leave them for later, but that makes it a little bit easier for me. I'm also trying to limit my palette as much as possible.
This is why I could never paint like Angel Giraldez or Jose Davinci. Aside from the obvious, those guys are masters of layering, they know exactly what each individual layer should look like on the mini, so they never need to futz backwards and forwards between the shade, base and tinted tones. I had a brief chat with Kijo as well, he also glazes in just the one direction, from base to highlight then from base to shade.
They primarily work of the Chiaroscuro principal, and it’s very approachable. It’s is verry effective, when you paint just like for one light lane of each vector!
I'll say this, everyone does this to some degree. Some people might take longer on the road to get their with more precise layers but often that can amount to the same thing. Everyone is going to do some kind of adjustments sometimes. :)
Art and adjustment are often the same. #14 Scott mentioned he is constantly reacting. Reactions seems par for any art focused on realism. It’s hesitation over how to fix (root of futsying) that defines the experience time wise. Vince, great exhibit on glazing! The most drastic correction I noticed was darkening the red at the very top between your two reflective strips.
As always thank you for the video it's always very informative I enter painting competitions not to win but to improve because I know I'm not going to win but through the constructive criticism the judges are going to give me I know where I can improve
Its funny how one can start this hobby and feels all educated and skilled after a year only to find out that is just the entry of the rabbit hole. But as always, Uncle Vince will put you in the right place 😉
@@VinceVenturella That is true. It definitely teaches you to lower expectations and stay determined at the same time. A fun roller coaster of frustration and excitement.
Amazing stuff as always bud ☺️ now imagine someone trying to paint a whole blood angels army like this 😜 RIP but I totally agree you need to learn, try new things force yourself to develop in order to get to a decent standard for "Display" painting. Many people just stay where they are out of laziness, not wanting to try new things and sticking to a pre set way of painting (this paint is for that, now we highlight with this and then use a wash) also a major help I have found is painting of course in different styles, lighting on the models (blue moon light, red fight lights, blue or green plasma etc...) also different types of models I also paint Batman miniatures game models totally different style of minis all of this stuff helps inform you how to paint. Oh and one last thing I will always tell people paint a busy or two. By the time I "finished" my first bust I learned so much, done my second one shortly after and it was nearly twice as good half way though the painting of it. Best way to learn how to blend in my opinion is a bust or a vehicle because of the space you have Inna given area 🙂
I saw an error practically as you were talking about making errors. And I saw you correct it but fixing it up with a darker shade. It was like at 12:40
Futzing around, ok grandma Vince………. Seriously great video and good advice. Love the resurrection of a word us Gen X’ers haven’t used since we were teens
Thanks for the video! If you go back this far on comments, curious how you know when to stop when "futzing." I think your point about adding visual interest over time is really interesting, but when it gets past the point of each individual step being clear in the difference it makes, how do you know when you have achieved the goal? Or maybe my eye just isn't as trained as yours when it comes to how each step on the shoulder pad created a specific change.
There is certainly a bit of art to it and it does come with experience. The short answer is when you have achieved the full effect and goal you are looking for. If you are trying to get a display effect, then obviously smoothness can also come into play.
I'm glad there are people who can paint like this but I have realised it is 100% not for me; I would get about 3 layers in, completely mess it up by covering over everything with a layer that was too thick and then probably want to throw the model out the window. I'll gladly stop at "they look ok from about 3ft away in a squad if you don't look too hard" quality - drybrushing and contrast paints are a lifesaver lol
I always thought the secret to display painting was picking a figure you are prepared to spend the time on, cause as you say, all that futzing takes a while, and no one wants something half futzed :)
I’m not sure if it was a mistake, but the one that I thought I saw was the edge highlight on the back of the shoulder pad at the bottom seemed like it. It looked a little further onto the pad than intended. If it was a mistake, did you draw it out further to create an area that allowed for easier blending? The “correction” looked intentional so I was curious to understand “making the problem bigger”. In theory, it makes sense. Although, in practice, I’m sure I’d face frustration before it clicked in my brain.
Thanks for the great video! From my experience futzing is a good way to learn lighting, osl and nmm. Paint a highlight, hmmm doesn't look right. Make it brighter, intensity is right but maybe it's too small? Hmm make it bigger, hmm now it's too big, make it smaller. Hmm maybe it's placement is off, let's move it a bit. So basically I just futz around till it looks "right". Unrelated question, do you know if there are any persons who won a golden demon and a grand tournament?
I've won GD and won Best in X, never taken first, but I would think there has to be someone certainly, especially back in the day when GD was more focused on army style miniatures.
A bit surprised you do one shoulder pad at a time, instead of the two shoulder pads together. In my mind, I want to do both of them to keep myself in the same mindset throughout the process. Then if I mess up one, I'm messing up in the same way on the other - or if I get it right, I got both right.
In this case, I basically do each panel one at a time, there are some exceptions, but it just makes everything sqaure in my brain, no reason you couldn't do both.
@@VinceVenturella Certainly just different ways or organizing how you attack a figure. You also work much faster than I do - so the 2nd shoulder pad would be fresh in your head after the first. I need to be on roughly same stage for both to keep them similar, since I may have to put a figure down for over a week at a time (thanks grad school). Your videos go on in the background while I'm writing - I get more time listening than I do painting!
Goddammit Vince, get some decent lights and mic! You are one of the best/most helpful YT'ers in this genre and I certainly appreciate what you do for this community. BUT, much like improving painting skills, there are simple things you can do to better present your product. I started writing this in a tongue in cheek, ribbing to type mood but realized half-way through that it actually bothers me at this point. It's with constructive criticism in mind and apologize for the harsh tone. (I mean, it's not 'that' harsh. Maybe mad Ned Flanders harsh.) I'll keep watching either way. Cheers.
@@VinceVenturella I mean, it's not like you don't have a friend or two ask about it. ;-) Even though I'm sounding like a d**k it's with good intentions. Tough love?
I love watching this, it's so fantastically useful. Would you consider getting a bright set of lights though? Sometimes it can be hard to see the detail and true colours of what you are doing, and sometimes the white balance feels off. I can't get enough of your content :)
It's amazing how much useful infos you can put in a 15 minutes video :) How different would the technique be if you were using oil paints? It's not layers over layers so how would someone approach this?
FOr oil paints, it's about repeated applications, so you would create the general color tones, but they will all blend. Then you go back and apply a second time, you want to use a dry brush to then smooth out the transitions.
Thank you very much for this and all your other fantastic videos. I have to say I was waiting for Payne's Grey to make an appearance but would that not work for NMM red?
Interesting video. Perhaps I'm wrong, but while futzing can yield a great result, you can't get that super smooth blend. Part of me still like the unrealistic super smooth technique of Bobby Wong's Blood Angles and Jennifer Haley's technique from the early 2000s.
@@VinceVenturella In your opinion do you get the silky smooth color transition from wet blending very similar colors or though working with glazes and filters?
@@Stormtrooper1787 So first, let me refer you to this video here - th-cam.com/video/k84npvSDpsI/w-d-xo.html Now, I don't want to assume anything about your level of experience, so if this is already known information, I apologize. The important thing to know here is that Acrylic paint isn't meant for blending, it's actually really poor at that task. This is like hammering with the reverse side of a screwdriver. Acrylic paint is meant for lightfastness, durability and fast drying time (that last part is the issue). Acryllic medium forms a sort of crystal lattice bond when the solvent (water) dries and traps the pigment in a very regular (hence bright, even) color. It was moved to from other older types of paint because it's just MUCH easier to work with and largely non-toxic. Now, The reality is, all of those techniques are generally necessary to achieve a smooth blend with acrylic paint and more. There are many tactics (wet blending, two-brush blending, feathering, layering, glazing, filtering, et al), and that's not counting additional additives like drying retardent or glaze mediums. If you are trying to acheive something truly smooth, it takes TIME and usually multiple of those techniques in combination. Hope that all helps.
So better explanation is one in the worth of Alan Quartermaine take your time you have all the time you need and do you want to play and quality over quantity
3:05 this is something I honestly needed to hear since I've been on a Death Guard project and I've been deeply frustrated because every miniature isn't exactly how I want. A few weeks ago I spent two hours highlighting stormhost silver on five models. Keep in mind, these aren't Grey Knights or Stormcast Eternals, but Death Guard, dominated by greens, browns, and flesh tones. I really need to rethink my approach to the project. I'm aiming for higher than normal quality but I'm honestly getting too anal. Now painting my Mortarian model, that'll probably be another story.
Nice recommendation of video vince, I really liked it. Just a question, which colours would you use to do the same among vallejo or citadel (as I own a couple of reds from them) range? I started red brown (dark siena + matt red) some time ago for the base coat but stopped for other projects becouse I was unsure 🙈
Hello Vince! Thank you for another awesome video. In previous hobby cheating videos you talk about Varnishing throughout the process. During this video I never saw you varnish the shoulder pad. Do you varnish throughout the process when painting for competition? Do you give a final ultramat coat with your airbrush to protect the miniature? Thank you in advance! -horacio
I'm guessing that the varnishing is done after major steps/elements are completed. So in the case of doing NMM this whole is just a single part of the NMM painting element. Now that part has many steps in it, but the varnishing process would come after all of the NMM is done.
In this case, I didn't need to varnish mid-step, just at the end, but often, yes, for competition I will varnish throughout depending on the needs of that piece.
id watch you paint shoulderpads for weeks vince, no worries!:D thanks for a great video as always:) i had one question tho, do you generally do one section of the mini for display like "finishing" up a shoulder, then going to another shoulder and so on, and ajust for cohearancy when its all up to 90%? or was this just to keep the video a normal length so you did not have to finish an entire ratcast?:)
I vary honestly. In this case, I am taking everything up to finished because I need to work each individually, but it's purpose driven. This isn't always the path I follow, more based on what I want to achieve.
Aside from the tutorial, which I find very interesting and helpful, your "Scavencast" look a little bit...uncanny. The paintwork is great as always, but seeing our craven ratfolk in shiny armors and humanoid postures seems a little to weird for me ;-) Still waiting to see the whole army. I'm sure it will be fantastic :D:D
Screw oils and color theory and steaks on my table; where do I get me one o dem aprons? Also: my futzing only makes things worse. I’m doing *something* wrong. My futzing is reacting to my mistakes and repeating and refining them until I can’t see what I’m painting anymore.
One question I have had on my mind for awhile, most of the time we lay paint down it dries darker. To compensate for this, adding multiple layers brightens it back up. But is their a point of diminishing return, besides the obvious to much paint?
In trying to control the light very precisely, so the broad highlights won't work and I am using the black as part of the scheme. I am actually going to talk about it soon in a video.
Vince: *paints red on model in a few shades...stops* Me: Holy hell that looks like red metal! Vince: *paints more red and glazes* Me: make that polished metal! Vince: *spends 45 minutes and finishes* Me: I need to learn NMM 😞
@@VinceVenturella I'll check those out then! Trying to get over the hurdle of choosing a model to try it on...what are your thoughts on armies with a mixture of models with NMM & TMM?
Did you paint all that over straight black? I’ve never seen you do that before. On another subject have you seen James Wapples content recently where he talks about oil metallics and color shifts? I’d be interested to see your take
@VinceVenturella fair enough. Not being a skill I have learned yet, I don't fully appreciate it yet. Nmm is definitely next on my list to learn, and you can bet I'll be back here. Really appreciating your content, thank you.
Ah the "Just the Tip" method. What sexually active person hasn't used that technique... oh... wait you're talking about painting. I'm sorry Vince, but sometimes I just can't resist a dirty joke. An sometimes when you say that in your videos, that is what pops in to my dirty mind. What can I say other then I'm rude, crude and socially unacceptable at times. Thank you for the video. Also I found ZERO mistakes or errors, because all of it just turned out to be happy little accidents which give it character in the end!
So summarized, "futzing" is yiddish for "fussing" and the point is to be overly concerned for detail, which... should be a given if someone wants to do more detailed painting. I get why this is hard to convey, because in order to explain someone that you need to do it over and over, you need to show how and why. I would've skipped the clickbait entirely and written something like 'Display pieces: How I paint meticulously' or 'When perfectionism pays off: Display painting' :)
Well, that's always the challenge. Those titles work and I really wanted to get this message into people's ears. :) - But I am generally against Clickbait - I'm okay with the title though as long there is real information contained. :)
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
The only mistake you made that I could catch was you assuming I could catch any of your mistakes. it all just looks like a start-to-finish process, and I just enjoy the ride. Yours is a channel I like watching, but I also come here to learn, and you teach well. Some that I watch, are just for that- watching. They don't really teach techniques, and to be fair, most of those channels I'm referring to don't promote themselves as tutorial videos; more just the joy of watching someone painting a miniature. But your channel is a two-for; we get the joy of watching someone paint, along with the tutelage of someone who knows what they're doing. Win-win. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Well thank you for all of that. :)
OH BOY, I ALWAYS WANTED TO WATCH VINCE PAINT A SHOULDERPAD FOR AN HOUR.
But this is about 13 minutes. I personally, appreciate these "slower" videos as it helps me master that brush movement. You can tell me a hundred times how to do it, but I need to see it done slowly to fully understand.
Hey yeah where's the rest?
I'll see what I can do for the future. :)
@@VinceVenturella Do what other content creators do: Set up a Patreon and upload full footage there :)
What do you mean, futzing is stressful? That's my stress relief! I only stress over the fact that I have so much to paint and so little time.
Bonus points for using the word "futzing" because it is a fantastic vocab word.
*poke poke*
*rinse*
*grab tiny bit of paint*
*poke poke*
*repeat*
It really is a wonderful word. :)
You could have called it “I paint a shoulder pad for 20 minutes” and I would have clicked anyways. 😂
ANd I appreciate that. :)
This is exactly how I approach my sculpting & converting. Keep working until it’s right, sometimes remaking the same thing over and over.
Great video!
Exactly!
Hi Vince. Thanks for another very interesting and thought provoking video. Again it helped me accept the gulf between my perfectionist side wanting to do the best possible job and my skills not being capable of it (yet?!) Your comment about brush skills and paint knowledge having to be high before even contemplating this level of finish was very sobering but also very true. It was like saying "You can't apply to join this club until you have put the time and effort in." Through much of the video I was thinking of the parallels between this hobby and music. It has been said that it takes about ten thousand hours of practice before someone can be said to master an instrument and I suspect that the same is true here. Also, you have to spend time and effort to really "listen" to music to learn to hear every nuance in it whereas most people just listen for pleasure. In the same way you have to really "see" the mini to pick up the cues that the brain processes automatically. With that said, I don't think I have the patience or time to paint to this standard but the key is - that's okay! So long as I understand my limitations and manage my expectations I can still enjoy the hobby. I can also apply this to my guitars - I'll never be a virtuoso guitarist but so long as I understand that and get pleasure from playing - it's okay! 😆👍
That's exactly right and glad I was able to help. :)
Let me check if I can guess the two important corrections made :
1) The white front reflection, too small first then too large, the corrected to good size
2) The first glaze was too large and you had to redo the shadow just above the arm.
Amazing as always.
As an aspirant new painter who is focused reaching character and one day display level painting ,I had to the change the way is see a project. I was looking at a miniatures as a whole, working to get all part of the armor to the same level each time. Spending 20 hours before finishing the armor was discouraging, the reward was too far away. Now I don’t consider the mini as a whole, I am focusing on painting the left leg in golden NMM, painting it until I know that anymore paint would make it worse then I reward myself.
Considering mini this way was the single most impactful decision I made to improve my painting.
That's exactly the right idea, get those little victories!
Tbh I am considering subscribing to Trovarion's and Marco's Patreons just because they post long form footage there, so such content is appreciated.
If not for the expected (and instantly recognizable) series title, you could almost re-brand these types of videos as "the mini-painting philosopher" - because this video, in addition to the tutorial, really goes to the mindset behind painting. I think for most of us, 'futzing' is something we do even as we get to the point where we can consider display painting. Also, might just be my experience, but I think the understanding of light and volumes comes at different times for different 'textures' (I can do a pretty good red or purple cloak, starting to get leather texturing, but flesh tones are still hit and miss for example)
I apprecaite that, my degree is in philosophy so I guess it bleeds through.
Wow this video lifted a lot of mental weight. For some reason I had this mental conception that experts paint well in the same amount of time it takes for me to do a 3 color minimum. I don't want to spend 45 min on a single shoulder pad. I'm going to finish this breaka boss troggoth now. Thank you.
Kind of like when people are impressed that I can carry ten eggs in one hand. Buddy I do this for a living
Awesome, always happy to help.
The armor looks like a fine red wine - simply delicious! 4:00 I'll revisit in a few years because I don't think I have what it takes to get admitted to Display painting - I struggle with some of the basics because I barely ever have time to paint...
Always happy to help and no issue, we are all on our own journeys, your is your own at your own speed.
This video makes me feel better about all my futzing on the mini I've been painting for the last few days. The multiple OSL points has been challenging for me but the process sounds similar to what you describe: layering, examining, reacting, glazing (over and over again).
Glad I could help!
I'm sorry Vince, but I had to screenshot the last couple seconds. The finished work; It is beautiful!
I try to touch brush to mini once a day, but during the dry spells, videos like this inspire me to continue.
I love your attitude towards the craft, and am grateful to you for making these videos. Cheers!
Thank you and that's wonderful to hear. :)
I think your "pfutzing" might be similar to my idea of "endeavor" and I feel like it is one of the most under-rated keys to success in display painting. To me, endeavor means enlarging ones scope to observe and record smaller and smaller bits of visual information. For example, in the beginning, I thought a shoulder pad was so small that I was happy to paint within the lines--and I was happy with the result because I thought I'd achieved a level that was realistic for the scale. There was a subconscious process of simplification editing both my perception and execution that, as my skill has improved, has progressed along a scale but still exists. Probably we have to do that to prevent becoming overwhelmed. But, I feel like endeavor has to be pushed, or maybe it's like opening a door to give yourself permission to see and incorporate more subtle elements. I do know that it seems to go in steps--like, suddenly I'll realize that some feature that I'd been painting as a single element could actually be broken down into several different areas of detail, and from then on it seems effortless to incorporate that added level of detail. I just wish I could get into the habit of opening that door more often.
Sounds similar.
Loving the display cabinets! Futzing around here!
Yeah, I really love those cabinets.
Great stuff as always. I struggle to visualize what I want the end result to be. At the same time if I'm being honest I think the real message here is to just sit and work at it. More of a mindset of giving significant effort to achieve something that pushes your boundaries, rather than just "getting it done".
Exactly right.
Omg...it took me far too long to realise this is one of the fabled ratcast eternals we've heard so much about!
Can't wait to see them done.
I'm excited to be able to share them soon.
Good stuff Vince. I am eager to get back into display painting myself
The army painting goes ever onward. ;)
Always appreciate these valuable bits of knowledge that you pass on to us Vince. Also really loving the ratcast conversion!
Glad you like them! :)
Though I would not say I’m working on display models I sometimes find myself futzing and enjoying the futzing process. I sometimes do some futzing on models that I don’t particularly care too much about just to see what I can accomplish. Thanks for the video!
Absolutely, it's just fun. :)
That's a pretty different approach compared to how I do it. My strategy has always been to try and shorten the time I need to paint a model as much as possible, and to use that saved time to paint more models. That's why I ultimately decided to abandon layering and glazing altogether, despite the fact I was getting some really good results with them. It took me some time, but I basicaly reinvented my painting style from scratch and can now paint much faster than before.
Nothing wrong with building up the speed muscle as well.
I am painting my first competition mini right now for a local small entry, there was one really good painter that always wins and my girlfriend said "you could do that" so now i have less than 10 days to refine my entry
You can do it! THe important part is even if you don't get him this time, you'll learn a bunch and come back next time even stronger, the learning is the best part of competing for sure.
Great video! I'm still painting my 3d printed totally-not-Sister-of-Battle 75mm mini. I'm trying to achieve NMM black metal armor. It's not looking perfect yet, but I'm on a journey to discover how to paint it. So far no secondary reflections, perpahs it's bad idea to leave them for later, but that makes it a little bit easier for me.
I'm also trying to limit my palette as much as possible.
Secondary reflections are the sort of thing you can absolutely build in at the end, just make sure you are placing them in areas of deep shadows.
Love the way you explain the process. You make it super interesting
Also the shields on these guy are incredible.
Glad you like them! - Happy to help.
This is why I could never paint like Angel Giraldez or Jose Davinci. Aside from the obvious, those guys are masters of layering, they know exactly what each individual layer should look like on the mini, so they never need to futz backwards and forwards between the shade, base and tinted tones. I had a brief chat with Kijo as well, he also glazes in just the one direction, from base to highlight then from base to shade.
They primarily work of the Chiaroscuro principal, and it’s very approachable. It’s is verry effective, when you paint just like for one light lane of each vector!
I'll say this, everyone does this to some degree. Some people might take longer on the road to get their with more precise layers but often that can amount to the same thing. Everyone is going to do some kind of adjustments sometimes. :)
Art and adjustment are often the same. #14 Scott mentioned he is constantly reacting. Reactions seems par for any art focused on realism. It’s hesitation over how to fix (root of futsying) that defines the experience time wise.
Vince, great exhibit on glazing! The most drastic correction I noticed was darkening the red at the very top between your two reflective strips.
100% agreed.
Magnificent result! Well done Vincent!
Thanks!
Amazing vince! So Good. 👍 Will most definately try this red nmm and i Love this topic. More displaypainting for the people!!
Thank you, always happy to help. :)
As always thank you for the video it's always very informative I enter painting competitions not to win but to improve because I know I'm not going to win but through the constructive criticism the judges are going to give me I know where I can improve
Exactly the right idea. :)
Its funny how one can start this hobby and feels all educated and skilled after a year only to find out that is just the entry of the rabbit hole. But as always, Uncle Vince will put you in the right place 😉
The wonderful part is it's a feature, not a bug, there is always more to learn. :)
@@VinceVenturella That is true. It definitely teaches you to lower expectations and stay determined at the same time. A fun roller coaster of frustration and excitement.
great fig, and thought process.
Thanks!
Great topic and approach as usual Vince!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Amazing stuff as always bud ☺️ now imagine someone trying to paint a whole blood angels army like this 😜 RIP but I totally agree you need to learn, try new things force yourself to develop in order to get to a decent standard for "Display" painting. Many people just stay where they are out of laziness, not wanting to try new things and sticking to a pre set way of painting (this paint is for that, now we highlight with this and then use a wash) also a major help I have found is painting of course in different styles, lighting on the models (blue moon light, red fight lights, blue or green plasma etc...) also different types of models I also paint Batman miniatures game models totally different style of minis all of this stuff helps inform you how to paint. Oh and one last thing I will always tell people paint a busy or two. By the time I "finished" my first bust I learned so much, done my second one shortly after and it was nearly twice as good half way though the painting of it. Best way to learn how to blend in my opinion is a bust or a vehicle because of the space you have Inna given area 🙂
Sounds correct to me all around.
Immensely helpful! Thank you, Vince!
Glad it was helpful!
Those ratcast are looking fab!
I am happy with where they are for sure.
I saw an error practically as you were talking about making errors. And I saw you correct it but fixing it up with a darker shade. It was like at 12:40
You got one of them for sure. :)
Futzing around, ok grandma Vince………. Seriously great video and good advice. Love the resurrection of a word us Gen X’ers haven’t used since we were teens
In many ways, it never left. ;)
Thanks for the video! If you go back this far on comments, curious how you know when to stop when "futzing." I think your point about adding visual interest over time is really interesting, but when it gets past the point of each individual step being clear in the difference it makes, how do you know when you have achieved the goal? Or maybe my eye just isn't as trained as yours when it comes to how each step on the shoulder pad created a specific change.
There is certainly a bit of art to it and it does come with experience. The short answer is when you have achieved the full effect and goal you are looking for. If you are trying to get a display effect, then obviously smoothness can also come into play.
Love the skaven heads
Thank you!
Those redeemed rats are looking super killer 👍
Thank you. :)
I'm glad there are people who can paint like this but I have realised it is 100% not for me; I would get about 3 layers in, completely mess it up by covering over everything with a layer that was too thick and then probably want to throw the model out the window. I'll gladly stop at "they look ok from about 3ft away in a squad if you don't look too hard" quality - drybrushing and contrast paints are a lifesaver lol
Nothing wrong with that at all. :)
Your ratcast are looking neat! Cant wait seeing the army on parade :)
Very excited. :)
A master at work.
Thank you, always happy to help.
Absolutely awesome video. Thank you it was very helpful.
Glad it was helpful!
Nice work Vince.
Thank you! :)
I always thought the secret to display painting was picking a figure you are prepared to spend the time on, cause as you say, all that futzing takes a while, and no one wants something half futzed :)
Oh, it's important for sure. You need something you can actually put the time in, but of course then you have to do the hard work, the futzing. ;)
I’m not sure if it was a mistake, but the one that I thought I saw was the edge highlight on the back of the shoulder pad at the bottom seemed like it. It looked a little further onto the pad than intended. If it was a mistake, did you draw it out further to create an area that allowed for easier blending? The “correction” looked intentional so I was curious to understand “making the problem bigger”. In theory, it makes sense. Although, in practice, I’m sure I’d face frustration before it clicked in my brain.
Thanks for the great video!
From my experience futzing is a good way to learn lighting, osl and nmm. Paint a highlight, hmmm doesn't look right. Make it brighter, intensity is right but maybe it's too small? Hmm make it bigger, hmm now it's too big, make it smaller. Hmm maybe it's placement is off, let's move it a bit. So basically I just futz around till it looks "right".
Unrelated question, do you know if there are any persons who won a golden demon and a grand tournament?
I've won GD and won Best in X, never taken first, but I would think there has to be someone certainly, especially back in the day when GD was more focused on army style miniatures.
A bit surprised you do one shoulder pad at a time, instead of the two shoulder pads together. In my mind, I want to do both of them to keep myself in the same mindset throughout the process. Then if I mess up one, I'm messing up in the same way on the other - or if I get it right, I got both right.
In this case, I basically do each panel one at a time, there are some exceptions, but it just makes everything sqaure in my brain, no reason you couldn't do both.
@@VinceVenturella Certainly just different ways or organizing how you attack a figure. You also work much faster than I do - so the 2nd shoulder pad would be fresh in your head after the first. I need to be on roughly same stage for both to keep them similar, since I may have to put a figure down for over a week at a time (thanks grad school). Your videos go on in the background while I'm writing - I get more time listening than I do painting!
Goddammit Vince, get some decent lights and mic! You are one of the best/most helpful YT'ers in this genre and I certainly appreciate what you do for this community. BUT, much like improving painting skills, there are simple things you can do to better present your product. I started writing this in a tongue in cheek, ribbing to type mood but realized half-way through that it actually bothers me at this point. It's with constructive criticism in mind and apologize for the harsh tone. (I mean, it's not 'that' harsh. Maybe mad Ned Flanders harsh.) I'll keep watching either way. Cheers.
The ironic part is I have a good mic and good camera, it's user error, but I have been really trying to improve it.
@@VinceVenturella I mean, it's not like you don't have a friend or two ask about it. ;-) Even though I'm sounding like a d**k it's with good intentions. Tough love?
Took me a while to realise that it is a skaven head on a stormcast body and not just a skaven model
You are correct.
I love watching this, it's so fantastically useful. Would you consider getting a bright set of lights though? Sometimes it can be hard to see the detail and true colours of what you are doing, and sometimes the white balance feels off. I can't get enough of your content :)
So actually the lights I shoot with are normally too bright, getting the right amount of light is really hard. :)
It's amazing how much useful infos you can put in a 15 minutes video :) How different would the technique be if you were using oil paints? It's not layers over layers so how would someone approach this?
FOr oil paints, it's about repeated applications, so you would create the general color tones, but they will all blend. Then you go back and apply a second time, you want to use a dry brush to then smooth out the transitions.
Thank you very much for this and all your other fantastic videos.
I have to say I was waiting for Payne's Grey to make an appearance but would that not work for NMM red?
It could be used, just didn't need it in this case.
Good call on not calling it "Watch Vince paint a shoulder pad."
Yeah, that might have been tough.
I love Vincey technomancer Vee! 🥰🐶
Well thank you. :)
@@VinceVenturella are u going to be a guest on the next season of Terped andar plersik?? I hope u do 🥰🐶
Interesting video. Perhaps I'm wrong, but while futzing can yield a great result, you can't get that super smooth blend. Part of me still like the unrealistic super smooth technique of Bobby Wong's Blood Angles and Jennifer Haley's technique from the early 2000s.
I would say it's one of the paths to that super smooth blend. Much of futzing is basically glazing and adjustments to smooth things out.
@@VinceVenturella In your opinion do you get the silky smooth color transition from wet blending very similar colors or though working with glazes and filters?
@@Stormtrooper1787 So first, let me refer you to this video here - th-cam.com/video/k84npvSDpsI/w-d-xo.html
Now, I don't want to assume anything about your level of experience, so if this is already known information, I apologize. The important thing to know here is that Acrylic paint isn't meant for blending, it's actually really poor at that task. This is like hammering with the reverse side of a screwdriver. Acrylic paint is meant for lightfastness, durability and fast drying time (that last part is the issue). Acryllic medium forms a sort of crystal lattice bond when the solvent (water) dries and traps the pigment in a very regular (hence bright, even) color. It was moved to from other older types of paint because it's just MUCH easier to work with and largely non-toxic.
Now, The reality is, all of those techniques are generally necessary to achieve a smooth blend with acrylic paint and more. There are many tactics (wet blending, two-brush blending, feathering, layering, glazing, filtering, et al), and that's not counting additional additives like drying retardent or glaze mediums. If you are trying to acheive something truly smooth, it takes TIME and usually multiple of those techniques in combination.
Hope that all helps.
Came for the clickbait, stayed for the reassuring advice.
Glad I was able to do both. :)
Great video! 🥰🐶
Thank you! 😊
So better explanation is one in the worth of Alan Quartermaine take your time you have all the time you need and do you want to play and quality over quantity
Exactly
3:05 this is something I honestly needed to hear since I've been on a Death Guard project and I've been deeply frustrated because every miniature isn't exactly how I want. A few weeks ago I spent two hours highlighting stormhost silver on five models. Keep in mind, these aren't Grey Knights or Stormcast Eternals, but Death Guard, dominated by greens, browns, and flesh tones. I really need to rethink my approach to the project. I'm aiming for higher than normal quality but I'm honestly getting too anal.
Now painting my Mortarian model, that'll probably be another story.
Nice recommendation of video vince, I really liked it. Just a question, which colours would you use to do the same among vallejo or citadel (as I own a couple of reds from them) range? I started red brown (dark siena + matt red) some time ago for the base coat but stopped for other projects becouse I was unsure 🙈
Just a Hull Red or Black Red, Flat Red and Deck Tan would be the same.
@@VinceVenturella may pallid wych flesh work instead of deck tan? Thanks for the fast answer 🤩
Great stuff friend 👏 👍
Thank You. :)
@Vince Venturella i have to be that guy and ask, but where can i get one of those display cases from for my minis?
It's a commercial display case, so you have to hit up a place that sells cases for retail outlets.
Come on down to Vincey's Pauldron Cauldron!
:)
@@VinceVenturella pob fifteen is some weird ass autocorrect. Should have proofread that one
Hello Vince! Thank you for another awesome video. In previous hobby cheating videos you talk about Varnishing throughout the process. During this video I never saw you varnish the shoulder pad.
Do you varnish throughout the process when painting for competition? Do you give a final ultramat coat with your airbrush to protect the miniature?
Thank you in advance! -horacio
I'm guessing that the varnishing is done after major steps/elements are completed. So in the case of doing NMM this whole is just a single part of the NMM painting element. Now that part has many steps in it, but the varnishing process would come after all of the NMM is done.
In this case, I didn't need to varnish mid-step, just at the end, but often, yes, for competition I will varnish throughout depending on the needs of that piece.
wowww those cabinets at the start are greeeat!!!! looks expensive! heheh
They were not cheap. :)
@@VinceVenturella well worth it, concidering the amount of time you have spent painting whats beeing beautifully displayed inside them.
Watched!❤
So the bid thing to really understand is color ? Or how they work together?
A little of both, but it's something that you pick up over time. A simple color wheel will really guide you.
id watch you paint shoulderpads for weeks vince, no worries!:D thanks for a great video as always:) i had one question tho, do you generally do one section of the mini for display like "finishing" up a shoulder, then going to another shoulder and so on, and ajust for cohearancy when its all up to 90%? or was this just to keep the video a normal length so you did not have to finish an entire ratcast?:)
I vary honestly. In this case, I am taking everything up to finished because I need to work each individually, but it's purpose driven. This isn't always the path I follow, more based on what I want to achieve.
Aside from the tutorial, which I find very interesting and helpful, your "Scavencast" look a little bit...uncanny. The paintwork is great as always, but seeing our craven ratfolk in shiny armors and humanoid postures seems a little to weird for me ;-) Still waiting to see the whole army. I'm sure it will be fantastic :D:D
Disturbing is good in this case I suppose. ;)
@@VinceVenturella Stormdrain Eternals?
@@VinceVenturella Well, if that was your intention, then power with you ! ;-D
Not paint related per se, but those display cabinets look magnificent! Where did you find something that size / that spacious?
Those are commercial display cabinets (like for a retail store). You can order them from retail supply stores.
Screw oils and color theory and steaks on my table; where do I get me one o dem aprons? Also: my futzing only makes things worse. I’m doing *something* wrong. My futzing is reacting to my mistakes and repeating and refining them until I can’t see what I’m painting anymore.
My wife had this one special made for me - so I guess from her. ;)
I think the error was on the angle next to the back of the model on the flat side of the shoulder pad
One of several. :)
Hey, Vince, why don’t you make a book with all your art and technics nicely explained?
That seems like a really big project I am not sure I would be able to do, but it would be very cool. :)
One question I have had on my mind for awhile, most of the time we lay paint down it dries darker. To compensate for this, adding multiple layers brightens it back up. But is their a point of diminishing return, besides the obvious to much paint?
Eventually yes, you are just not making any change.
Futz had two meanings for me….yours and for my life experience as an old guy…Futz the movie, a sexual satire!
Now that's one I hadn't heard of. :)
Hey Vince! Any reason you didn't do your usual Zenithal here?
In trying to control the light very precisely, so the broad highlights won't work and I am using the black as part of the scheme. I am actually going to talk about it soon in a video.
When is the Stormvermin Eternals Battletome coming out?
When I bring my army to the tourney. :)
Alternate title "What is flexing: How to paint red NMM."
It's a really challenging paint scheme for sure.
Anybody have any recommendations for good resources on studying lighting and its effects?
Also, great video
It's actually something I want to make a really detailed video on - but Kujo Painting have a nice one in NMM.
Vince, what are those display cabinets and where did you get them?
They are commercial retail display shelves. You can buy them from distributors for retail stores. Warning, they are expansive and HEAVY.
Futz around and find out
Exactly.
8:01 that’s what she said 😂😂🐶
;)
Vince: *paints red on model in a few shades...stops*
Me: Holy hell that looks like red metal!
Vince: *paints more red and glazes*
Me: make that polished metal!
Vince: *spends 45 minutes and finishes*
Me: I need to learn NMM 😞
Well, fortiunately, I have plenty of videos on that as well. :)
@@VinceVenturella I'll check those out then! Trying to get over the hurdle of choosing a model to try it on...what are your thoughts on armies with a mixture of models with NMM & TMM?
@@adamb3455 As long as they are discreet items (like the weapons are all NMM and the armor is TMM or something), it's fine.
Is that model a rat-cast? Cool convertion
It is indeed.
Did you paint all that over straight black? I’ve never seen you do that before. On another subject have you seen James Wapples content recently where he talks about oil metallics and color shifts? I’d be interested to see your take
I did in this case, this army is going over black because I need to precisely control the color and I'm using the black as part of the overall scheme.
You are good.
Thank you! :)
Mistake spotted: there is a Skaven head on this Stormcast Eternal
Oh, you got it. ;)
Can you make more videos on gold non metallic metal
Yep, I was actually going to revisit it in the next few months. :)
Uncanny valley right?
Yep, that's it.
Is true metallic not accepted in competition painting?
It certainly is, it’s just often the case you can do more with NMM. :)
@VinceVenturella fair enough. Not being a skill I have learned yet, I don't fully appreciate it yet. Nmm is definitely next on my list to learn, and you can bet I'll be back here. Really appreciating your content, thank you.
This confirmed that I will never be a display painter 😅
Never say never. :)
Ah the "Just the Tip" method. What sexually active person hasn't used that technique... oh... wait you're talking about painting.
I'm sorry Vince, but sometimes I just can't resist a dirty joke. An sometimes when you say that in your videos, that is what pops in to my dirty mind. What can I say other then I'm rude, crude and socially unacceptable at times.
Thank you for the video. Also I found ZERO mistakes or errors, because all of it just turned out to be happy little accidents which give it character in the end!
It's the best part of the brush, little errors that do provide visual interest.
Time for a new camera buddy
?
Pedicure God no I don't want to red non-metallic metal
Yeah, it's a real great choice for a whole army...
😁
Second :)
:)
So summarized, "futzing" is yiddish for "fussing" and the point is to be overly concerned for detail, which... should be a given if someone wants to do more detailed painting.
I get why this is hard to convey, because in order to explain someone that you need to do it over and over, you need to show how and why.
I would've skipped the clickbait entirely and written something like 'Display pieces: How I paint meticulously' or 'When perfectionism pays off: Display painting' :)
Well, that's always the challenge. Those titles work and I really wanted to get this message into people's ears. :) - But I am generally against Clickbait - I'm okay with the title though as long there is real information contained. :)
hmmmm. finding errors in your work? inconceivable!
maybe ...
6:47, i think your glaze was still too wet and the bright tone flooded out a bit
Yep, there are several throughout the video for sure. :)
: )
:)