@@billyelliot4141 to litle controllability for normal sattelites (witch also majorily break up before). So you need a reentry vehicle. And then you are into ICBM's
The Torps are supposed to snake, the issue is that fact that IRL in this snaking mode the torp turns on its active sonar and homes in on the first target it sees, the snaking is to help it get a wider FOV. They seemed to have modeled the snaking but not modeled the homing.
I'm not sure how subs are modelled in DCS but anyone who's played Cold Waters will tell you that you're lucky you weren't instantly sunk in those Chinese subs. Starting stationary on the surface within visual range of a carrier group and then dropping only to periscope depth is not the stealthiest tactic 😅
Precisely. I mean, even if they missed the surfaced submarines, there is no way an entire fleet would miss the amount of wake he was kicking up. Hell, that submarine looked like it was producing more than even a carrier.
Cap no submarine commander would ever approach a sub at 30knts, they would either lie in wait in front of the carriers path or sneak in at a slow speed (prob around 5knts) as to limit noise and cavitation.
@@grimreapers Here is a "real life (wargame)" account of a Swedish Submarine against a US Carrier Group nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/war-games-swedish-stealth-submarine-sank-us-aircraft-carrier-116216
Hah!!! That was my boat you showed in the hurricane, the USS Kitty Hawk! I was on it 1984-1988, we went through a storm like that too off Sri Lanka, it was really not that big of deal, not terribly uncomfortable or anything. They had us prepare in advance by lashing down anything that could possibly fall over or roll away, closing major hatches and almost all watertight doors. The carrier is long enough that it rides up on a wave, comes level across the next one, and noses down after the following one causing the whole ship to give a little shiver as the bow slams into the water. To most of us, it was actually fun. They can't fit all the aircraft in the hangar, so aircraft on the flight deck are double and triple-chained, they aren't going anywhere.
One thing you forgot about Helicopters and Pulse Doppler Radars is that the rotor blades SHOULD light up like a Christmas tree, even if you were simply hovering stationary.
Very cool video. In real life, radar fails to obtain usable returns from very low-level objects over the sea, and I think you'll love the reason why. Have you ever got down low and looked over a flat surface (tarmac, desert) on a really hot, sunny day? You see a weird mirage effect. This is because there is a layer of hot air causing the light to bend. Well, just over the surface of the sea there is a similar layer (except it is cooler rather than hotter) which has the same kind of effect on radar (approx wavelength 2cm, 14GHz). Sometimes this effect can be used to extend a radar's range over the horizon, but it doesn't work for small objects very low over the surface.
I witnessed the USS Forestall launching and recovering while waves came over the stern and bow in your North Sea. It was so freaky as I was on the flight deck in 1987.
I loved that you were running at periscope depth with your periscope UP and wondered how the ships could shoot at you. 1. Fast subs with periscope up leave rooster tails. 2. Periscopes can be spotted on radar. 3. Chinese submarines are horribly noisy.
Great video!! Would be awesome to do a complete helicopter fleet swarm.... a Hind Zerg Rush (50+) vs fleet in a snow storm! As snow doesn't reflect radar as well as rain, adding to targeting issues, visibility and maybe get that "you sunk my -battle- Carrier" win we're all rooting for! This was really enjoyable, thanks guys!!
As a former US Navy sub nuclear sailor I can tell you that subs go deep under a hurricane. My first boat went under one back in ‘99 and we were still rocking and moving in a figure 8 pattern at 400ft depth. We had to move below 600ft depth for things to really smooth out. It is scary how much energy a hurricane puts into the ocean.
I was on the USS Kitty Hawk CV-63 during Vietnam. We were in 3 major typhoons in 2 years. Luckily, we never lost any ships or aircraft during our extended West Pacific cruise. Looking at your video of ships in storms sent my mind back to those amazing days serving in the US Navy. Aircraft on the flight and hanger decks are tied down with heavy chains and wheel chocks, so they aren't going anywhere. Sailors on watches outside on observation decks are attached to the ship with rope. They become soaked with seawater, of course, but few sailors become lost at sea, which is a reassuring thought. Flight operations in storms are impossible, for the fleet and the enemy. It is 110 feet (ca. 34 meters) from the flight deck of the Kitty Hawk to the waterline. I personally have seen waves break over the bow of the Hawk, so the films you showed are very realistic and common.
My dad was in the North Atlantic (USS San Diego, AFS-6) during roughly the same period. By what he used to tell: Much the same, but add "testicles in your ribcage" cold. They once lost a Sea Knight over the side.
So the torpedoes normally trail wires (or fibreoptic cable) behind them which would enable you steer them onto the target. If you cut the wires (or they break) the torpedo then does its own guidance and will swing left and right looking for a target, (although actually you can program different modes) if they find a target they will then lock onto that noise and home in. It looks like they just haven't modelled it very well/at all in DCS.
We went through two hurricanes while I was on the IKE. Our escort ships went around the best they could we did not go straight through just on the edge, no waves came over the deck. But the wall of water thrown up in front of the bow we would sail through it. The CO came on the 1MC and said anyone who goes on deck or on any weather deck and gets washed overboard he would not try and rescue you. Basically saying if you are dumb enough to go on deck, you are not with risking the lives of the helicopter and motor whale boat crews.
HMCS Athabaskan was in Sea State 9, with winds at 65 knots or 120 km/hr., the Royal Canadian Navy noted. Sea State 9 is defined as having waves higher than 14 metres.
The student that made this free software should be commended. Sure it's buggy and crashes when you lock a target, and the weapons don't work, and even veterans can't figure out how to fire a missile from a helicopter, nor even make a submarine turn, but it looks like once it comes out of alpha it will be interesting. Oh, I'm being told this is a commercial product that is sold for real money.... oh dear.
The missiles on the helicopters absolutely do work, there are plenty of videos you can find elsewhere showing them functional; the GR guys just screwed it up multiple times trying to make them work while "on the clock". The subs are pretty ridiculous, though, they clearly just did the absolute bare minimum to say "we have player-controlled subs"
Yeah a Modernized aircraft with similar capabilities would be known as the Tu22m3... but a ground effect missile carrier with VLS would be Amazing. The TU22M3s can and likely would kill a carrier, just a matter of saturation and land bases having more ammunition, eventually the carrier escorts run out of missiles.
modern, sonar guided torpedoes generally do a snake pattern to search for targets after reaching a certain distance while air dropped and rocket launched torpedoes usually do circle patterns. Although they might be programmable to do either or something entirely different.
Information is not easy to come by for torpedoes, but modern ones (according to sonar operators) are silent until they go active in their final approach, and by then it's too late. They will also hang out/seek in a defined area (box) autonomously waiting on a target. During practice there have been subs "sank" by their own torpedoes when they ended up in the box area doing evasive maneuvers. Modern torpedoes don't run at the surface.
I would dispute the weather survival of modern battleships, because of watertight doors, compartments ect they can and do cope with this weather, this was one forgotten factor about the Falklands, most of the harrier losses were due to crashes on take off in abysmal weather
I don't know if this will make it onto the list but here's a try...Combo attack! Attempt to use combinations of previous attacks but with smaller numbers for each attacking type (that is controlled by AI). Example instead of 100 Fast Attack Boats try 25 FAB, 4 Kamikaze aircraft and some land based Anti-Ship missiles or two Chinese Destroyers.
Hey Cap, since you did a Star Destroyer from StarWars how about 'either' the USS Enterprise D (Galaxy Class from Star Trek) OR the ENTIRE US Navy fleet with the first carrier called Enterprise, but then use all the ships the US had available during that time.
Basic Carrier Group attack is as follows. Dive early go slow separate yourselves. Do not put your Periscope up it can be seen on radar. Use passive sonar just absorb their sound and follow it till your close. On a predetermined one pulse signal. Go to Periscope depth and immediately deploy all weapons. Crash dice and pray because those submarines have all launched on you and your dead. At the speed and depth you were traveling they would have heard you 500 miles away. You must use thermoclines in the water, different temperatures cause sonar and radar reflection. To hide, run silent run deep.
about the storm: the super carrier survives easily the ticonderogas will slow down a lot and maybe get slight damages but survive the destroyers will either get obliterated or survive with only minor damages, depends on their maneuvers
Yes, ASW is slow. We called it Awfully Slow Warfare. The whole ASW mode seems buggy. The battle group would have helos dropping torps on you, and the ships would be firing ASROCs. Plus the other warships would be positioning for and over the side torpedo shot. In the rough weather, money is on the DDGs. The CGs are top heavy and ride like shit on even moderately severe weather.
Helicopters produce such a strong doppler pulse with their advancing and receding rotors. Helicopters are doppler noisy, no stealth there. I tracked many helicopters that were flying parallel to us and at the same speed with our targeting radar when I was in the Navy. The radar locks onto the spinning rotors, ours had a sound feedback system, and I could always tell when I locked onto a helicopter, the sound in the headphones was 'swiss-swiss-swiss-swiss-swiss-swiss'. I operated and maintained those Seasparrow launchers/radars that you see on the side of the carrier.
It seemed to me, and this is totally just a guess, but everytime you would change your view, spin camera angles, or just begin to track onto another target, the movent of the whole sub, or weapon system would be effected. As if controling the camera, somehow effected the subs and weapon systems
My father served in the United States Navy from Korea through the Vietnam War. Destroyers have to put to Sea and evade or ride out hurricanes and or force 10 gales. I have photographs of these ships returning to Harbor with three feet of solid ice on their upper works
Nice video! Amazing simulation of the ships in rough weather - 46 m/s. About slow helos and RADAR: You seem to forget that the ships have sea-RADAR, capable of seeing everything like a small sailboat and small speedboats. Those RADARs will interpret the low flying helos as speedboats. Subs and sub surface sensors are so poorly modelled that you can just forget about it. For that you need another sim. (Nothing bad in that - this is a flight sim).
The modeled storm was worse than that shown in the video of the carrier. The difference was that in the video, it was white water on deck - ie, mostly spray and foam. As modeled, it was definitely showing green water on deck - ie, unbroken water - which translates out to tons of water on deck. Odds on, that would cause the carrier to ship so much water it would sink, even if the back was not broken. Of course, as modeled the ships were pitching far more than would be expected given the wave length shown; so I would draw no conclusions about the ability of a 90 knot wind to sink a carrier.
you need to submerge and be close to sea bottom and move slowly silent running and use missiles.then quickmove and release jamming for torpedoes and also asdic etc.
Radar can lock on to rotor blades. I was a navy fire controlman and the CIWS radar will pick up the rotors but at a range inside the horizon of course. Also. Perry frigates can carry 20 harpoons and the 76 mm automallara (sp?) can fire 6 miles at air targets and 9 nm at surface with great accuracy up to 120 rounds per min
Subs can actually easily defeat a US Carrier group. its been proven time and time again in military ex's. Especially non nuclear subs. Non nuclear subs, with no systems running are holes in the water, they simply don't make noise. next in an area like the Persian gulf, there are TONS of ship wrecks, sunken oil rigs, and other "clutter". A sub captain can very easily Find one of these clutter points on the map, and set his sub on the bottom, right next to it. So now you have a silent sub, sitting next to a large metallic structure that will mess up MAD Detection's AND mess up active sonar detection. the sub then just waits for the carrier group to travel over its position. Since there are very limited shipping channels... a captain can likely ensure the carrier will pass within between 0 and 10 nautical miles of their sub. From there, they can fire torps at almost point blank range. this could be anywhere from 4 to 8 torpedoes...
IRL Submarines are the most serious threat for carrier group. This is why carrier needs ASW escort and ASW helos. All other threats are easy to detect from far away (horizon is not a problem there when you got aircraft). The only way to hide is in the deeps, this is the easiest (still very risky) way to sneak to the carrier. What DCS is not showing is effect of ECM on anti ship missiles, those escort ships probably can jam ARH anti ship missiles, also ships carry passive countermeasures that are missing in DCS. Helos are quite harmless against carrier. They lack proper weapons to sink large ships. Also getting like
the destroyers lost during typhoon cobra were fletchers modern arleigh burks are close to the size of a Atlanta class cruiser which historically braved typhoon cobra without major damage or loss of life.
Can’t see this working as anti missile defence systems like sea wolf, Cwizz ect are designed to take out things like Exocet which are sea skimming missiles
A ww2 destroyer was a about 2500 tons loaded...a modern destroyer is 8300 tons loaded and over 100 ft longer. A huge difference when it comes to storms sinking them.
I wonder if it will be possible to add the level of sim to DCS subs that Deep Waters has. With layers and proper sonar and all that. I'd imagine that the hardest part will be having a system that can run everything at once, Probably need a damn 64 core EPYC server to run it.
There would be no flight ops going on in winds and seas that strong. Everything would not only be chained down and there would be extra tie-down chains applied and those chains will not snap. And the ship handling/modeling in DCS apparently Sucks big time. One last note about the ships lost in Typhoon Cobra, they were ordered to keep in formation and not allowed to sail into the wind which would have kept them safer.
No chance of flying Airwolf against them? 9I’m aware that this doesn’t actually exist - but if I remember correctly it was supposed to be a mach2 capable stealth helicopter - I think, lol). You just Stringfellow Hawk to pilot it….. memories, memories 😔😔😪
Periscopes can be detected by radar. During WWII, the allies used radar to detect the submerged subs with nothing but their periscopes up. Modern radars are a tad better.
When I was flying in the S3 operating our mode 1 radar (periscope detection) we could see dolphins jumping in and out of the water, trash bags, waves, and of course sub periscopes. The periscope was easy to see in some cases.
Interesting. The Imperial Japanese Navy had to travel through a big storm during their cruise to get into position for the big Midway battle. Their carriers and support ships made it through the storm and that was 1930-40s tech.
They say the carrier top speed is actually classified due to they don’t want enemy’s to know how fast they can really go, in case of subs or other things firing at them. So they probably go faster then 60 knots, sounds crazy but I believe it.
That rear end of the carrier with the opening, is there an actual DOOR that can be closed? These ships, all of them, are made for war and have more armor than your average freighter or container vessel. Still those vessels in reality can survive a big storm. I don't think these Destroyers would 'sink' so low below the ocean in the swell as here depicted, and they should be strong enough (hull wise) to withstand high waves. And the carrier is practically a floating city. I think if they just prepare for bad weather, close everything down then the carrier is just fine.
It's not that easy; if the waves are high and strong enough they can actually tip a ship over. All the armor in the world won't save you from the wrath of mother nature.
If a you did a sub attack like that in real life running on parascope you would have so many anti sub helos on you and droping topedos. they would do that even if you were submeged
Very rarely are all planes in the hold, there usually isn't enough room. They are ratcheted to the deck at multiple points and rarely does more than a few inches of water hit them.
in my experience experimenting with ships and helicopters, in dcs model you cna be hovering still a centimeter above the ground and ships are still gonna fire at you the only way to beat them in hteory, at least within dcs is if they ever got close enough to land so you can fire at them while taking cover behind terrain or objects though that's not really a realistic scenario then
But what’s the alternative? Just running your unarmored aluminum box with fan blades straight at the enemy with zero tactics or survival sense? Great way to get yourself killed by enemy small arms fire, and lose a multi-million dollar attack helicopter with multi-million dollar armaments in the process. A helicopter hovering in the open may as well have a giant “shoot me” sign. In a real combat scenario, an attack helicopter _would_ be hiding behind terrain and objects, popping out to take a few shots, and then ducking back into cover, because otherwise the enemy will shoot it down, and unlike jet aircraft, a helicopter can be taken out by a single soldier with nothing but a rifle and a mag or two of ammo. On top of that, there’s no ejection system in a helicopter. If your tail gets torn off by machine gun fire, or if your rotors get shot out, you’re now sitting in an aluminum brick falling at terminal velocity, while surrounded by high-power, military-grade explosives and _very_ flammable fuel, and the only way you’re coming out of that is as a cloud of red mist and flash-roasted chunks of muscle and fat as your body gets pancaked and evicerated by colliding with the ground and exploding violently.
I can asure you that despite the comments, i have spent nezr on two weeks in a hurican tnat took place just after an exercise started with three navies taking part. Many of the ships made a a run for Lisbon and got more damaged in there than if they had stayed at sea. We stayed at sea, and managed to save a private sea going boat that had flooded its engine room, rather than try and tow it they bought it alongbside and kept it there by setting springs that kept it tight along side we got a repair team to pump out the engine room and dry a few thing out while the crew were taken care of in sick bay. It wascthe only time that i knew of where the gallies were closed because all the cooks were bad with sea sickness, if you wanted anything you could cook it yourself this included the officers! We stayed at sea for the whole storm and basically kept the ship moving forward very slowly and travelling with the weather to try and keep the props at least in touch with the water. It was the only time i have seen a ship almost surfing the inside of a water tube, i stood on the quaterdeck with a wave going over the ship about twenty foot above my head, and just made it back inside and closed the latches on the door before the water went over the quater deck. We lost a boat and its davits ripped out of the deck, leaving a hole that was just over a fuel tank which was double skined so water did not get into the ship purely because of the waybthe ship,was built, the ship was built in 1943 and had it been a newer ship i dont thinkmitbwould have donevso well
cap, a 5 inch shell can and will do damage and eventual sink a sup at parascope depth, a 16 inch shell form a battleship could sink a sub at a depth of over 100 feet if it lands ontop of it.
The old diesel Canadian submarines would sink American aircraft carriers in war games. At first the Americans said that was impossible, so they put a spotter on a Canadian submarine and the spotter verified a carrier getting sunk again while he was on board.
Typhoons can wreak havoc on destroyers and frigates of the type in WW2 up to the 1980's. Burke Class would probably be okay with a few bumps and bruises. They're pretty solid when battened down against both fire and water. Broad hull, superstructure well inboard= a very stable ship. Ticos are very narrow and more top heavy with superstructure to the gunnels, and also vertical surfaces to the waves. As long as bulkheads hold tight, should be okay, but a scary ride for sure. Carriers - no problem except fo battening down for the ride. They ave lots of items on wheels from planes to forklifts that can break loose and cause fires. Adm Halsey's fleet suffered more storm damage during that infamous WW2 typhoon than by any Japanese attack. Those little destroyers, so narrow and top heavy with all the armament had a hard time, and some were lost. Just my opinion.
A lot of these “under the radar sneaking tactics” would pretty much be voided by the surface search radars on carrier/crudes helos that are literally flying 24/7 over the strike group. You can’t get under that radar because it’s emanating from above you and looking down to prevent that very thing from happening.
How to beat carrier fleet: MIG-21 nuclear kamikaze
th-cam.com/video/1K8LGTwy6Zw/w-d-xo.html
@@grimreapers Shame the bomb fell off/glitched or got damaged in each scenario it could work otherwise... maybe?
@@thegamingbrit4677 it does, ralfidude did it
@@killian9314 ah that’s good then
tecnicly the p700 granit the sandbox the onix, zircon and kyzal can be armed with nuclear warheads to destroy carrier groups with only one hit
CAN AN ASTEROID DEFEAT A US CARRIER GROUP?
cool
@@grimreapers what about a satellite? If they programmed reentry carefully📡🛰️😳
@@billyelliot4141 to litle controllability for normal sattelites (witch also majorily break up before).
So you need a reentry vehicle.
And then you are into ICBM's
That is y ballistic missiles exist
The Aliens probably could IRL.
The Torps are supposed to snake, the issue is that fact that IRL in this snaking mode the torp turns on its active sonar and homes in on the first target it sees, the snaking is to help it get a wider FOV. They seemed to have modeled the snaking but not modeled the homing.
bingo, you can try it in a game called cold waters, if your good enough, you can sink every ship in that group.
I'm not sure how subs are modelled in DCS but anyone who's played Cold Waters will tell you that you're lucky you weren't instantly sunk in those Chinese subs. Starting stationary on the surface within visual range of a carrier group and then dropping only to periscope depth is not the stealthiest tactic 😅
Haha
I've pulled off similar attacks in Dangerous Waters., so it is doable even if going around with your periscope's mast up isn't the wisest thing to do.
"could they see me" well yea because your going 30 MPH with a periscope out
Precisely. I mean, even if they missed the surfaced submarines, there is no way an entire fleet would miss the amount of wake he was kicking up. Hell, that submarine looked like it was producing more than even a carrier.
Not to mention apparently the type 093 are noisy.
I love this series, so much fun to watch and think of ideas myself!
Cap no submarine commander would ever approach a sub at 30knts, they would either lie in wait in front of the carriers path or sneak in at a slow speed (prob around 5knts) as to limit noise and cavitation.
thx
@@grimreapers Here is a "real life (wargame)" account of a Swedish Submarine against a US Carrier Group nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/war-games-swedish-stealth-submarine-sank-us-aircraft-carrier-116216
@@Madcat1975 ah yes the 80mil sub that sunk a carrier
@@iplaygames8090 #JustSwedishThings
Hah!!! That was my boat you showed in the hurricane, the USS Kitty Hawk! I was on it 1984-1988, we went through a storm like that too off Sri Lanka, it was really not that big of deal, not terribly uncomfortable or anything. They had us prepare in advance by lashing down anything that could possibly fall over or roll away, closing major hatches and almost all watertight doors. The carrier is long enough that it rides up on a wave, comes level across the next one, and noses down after the following one causing the whole ship to give a little shiver as the bow slams into the water. To most of us, it was actually fun. They can't fit all the aircraft in the hangar, so aircraft on the flight deck are double and triple-chained, they aren't going anywhere.
33:22 most underrated situational breakdown I’ve ever heard
One thing you forgot about Helicopters and Pulse Doppler Radars is that the rotor blades SHOULD light up like a Christmas tree, even if you were simply hovering stationary.
Yup good point!
witch he said in the video^^
Very cool video. In real life, radar fails to obtain usable returns from very low-level objects over the sea, and I think you'll love the reason why. Have you ever got down low and looked over a flat surface (tarmac, desert) on a really hot, sunny day? You see a weird mirage effect. This is because there is a layer of hot air causing the light to bend. Well, just over the surface of the sea there is a similar layer (except it is cooler rather than hotter) which has the same kind of effect on radar (approx wavelength 2cm, 14GHz). Sometimes this effect can be used to extend a radar's range over the horizon, but it doesn't work for small objects very low over the surface.
thxx
I witnessed the USS Forestall launching and recovering while waves came over the stern and bow in your North Sea. It was so freaky as I was on the flight deck in 1987.
I loved that you were running at periscope depth with your periscope UP and wondered how the ships could shoot at you. 1. Fast subs with periscope up leave rooster tails. 2. Periscopes can be spotted on radar. 3. Chinese submarines are horribly noisy.
lessons learned: Iran needs to hire thor to bring on a massive storm
Great video!! Would be awesome to do a complete helicopter fleet swarm.... a Hind Zerg Rush (50+) vs fleet in a snow storm! As snow doesn't reflect radar as well as rain, adding to targeting issues, visibility and maybe get that "you sunk my -battle- Carrier" win we're all rooting for!
This was really enjoyable, thanks guys!!
As a former US Navy sub nuclear sailor I can tell you that subs go deep under a hurricane. My first boat went under one back in ‘99 and we were still rocking and moving in a figure 8 pattern at 400ft depth. We had to move below 600ft depth for things to really smooth out. It is scary how much energy a hurricane puts into the ocean.
I was on the USS Kitty Hawk CV-63 during Vietnam. We were in 3 major typhoons in 2 years. Luckily, we never lost any ships or aircraft during our extended West Pacific cruise. Looking at your video of ships in storms sent my mind back to those amazing days serving in the US Navy. Aircraft on the flight and hanger decks are tied down with heavy chains and wheel chocks, so they aren't going anywhere. Sailors on watches outside on observation decks are attached to the ship with rope. They become soaked with seawater, of course, but few sailors become lost at sea, which is a reassuring thought. Flight operations in storms are impossible, for the fleet and the enemy. It is 110 feet (ca. 34 meters) from the flight deck of the Kitty Hawk to the waterline. I personally have seen waves break over the bow of the Hawk, so the films you showed are very realistic and common.
My dad was in the North Atlantic (USS San Diego, AFS-6) during roughly the same period. By what he used to tell: Much the same, but add "testicles in your ribcage" cold. They once lost a Sea Knight over the side.
I survived hurrican hugo on board the cvn 59 forrestal, on our way to fleet week in new york, The hanger deck was like walking on the moon.
So the torpedoes normally trail wires (or fibreoptic cable) behind them which would enable you steer them onto the target. If you cut the wires (or they break) the torpedo then does its own guidance and will swing left and right looking for a target, (although actually you can program different modes) if they find a target they will then lock onto that noise and home in. It looks like they just haven't modelled it very well/at all in DCS.
Interesting...
We went through two hurricanes while I was on the IKE. Our escort ships went around the best they could we did not go straight through just on the edge, no waves came over the deck. But the wall of water thrown up in front of the bow we would sail through it. The CO came on the 1MC and said anyone who goes on deck or on any weather deck and gets washed overboard he would not try and rescue you. Basically saying if you are dumb enough to go on deck, you are not with risking the lives of the helicopter and motor whale boat crews.
HMCS Athabaskan was in Sea State 9, with winds at 65 knots or 120 km/hr., the Royal Canadian Navy noted. Sea State 9 is defined as having waves higher than 14 metres.
US carrier fleet VS US carrier fleet. Epic battle
The student that made this free software should be commended. Sure it's buggy and crashes when you lock a target, and the weapons don't work, and even veterans can't figure out how to fire a missile from a helicopter, nor even make a submarine turn, but it looks like once it comes out of alpha it will be interesting. Oh, I'm being told this is a commercial product that is sold for real money.... oh dear.
The missiles on the helicopters absolutely do work, there are plenty of videos you can find elsewhere showing them functional; the GR guys just screwed it up multiple times trying to make them work while "on the clock".
The subs are pretty ridiculous, though, they clearly just did the absolute bare minimum to say "we have player-controlled subs"
Lol
Water would reflect radar emissions but not enough to conceal the chopper, however, flying close to the water would help to confuse IR missiles.
How to beat carrier fleet : use its own aircraft and missiles against it
🤔
Yes CAP i like this combination.
Now I understand why ground effect planes like the Kaspian monster were so dangerous for a Carrier Group.
Yeah a Modernized aircraft with similar capabilities would be known as the Tu22m3... but a ground effect missile carrier with VLS would be Amazing.
The TU22M3s can and likely would kill a carrier, just a matter of saturation and land bases having more ammunition, eventually the carrier escorts run out of missiles.
Yep, shame it never turned out to be practical
modern, sonar guided torpedoes generally do a snake pattern to search for targets after reaching a certain distance while air dropped and rocket launched torpedoes usually do circle patterns. Although they might be programmable to do either or something entirely different.
Information is not easy to come by for torpedoes, but modern ones (according to sonar operators) are silent until they go active in their final approach, and by then it's too late. They will also hang out/seek in a defined area (box) autonomously waiting on a target. During practice there have been subs "sank" by their own torpedoes when they ended up in the box area doing evasive maneuvers.
Modern torpedoes don't run at the surface.
Love the content man love it
As a former submariner, can confirm that aside from crew comfort a nuclear submarine does not GAF about a storm.
I would dispute the weather survival of modern battleships, because of watertight doors, compartments ect they can and do cope with this weather, this was one forgotten factor about the Falklands, most of the harrier losses were due to crashes on take off in abysmal weather
I don't know if this will make it onto the list but here's a try...Combo attack! Attempt to use combinations of previous attacks but with smaller numbers for each attacking type (that is controlled by AI). Example instead of 100 Fast Attack Boats try 25 FAB, 4 Kamikaze aircraft and some land based Anti-Ship missiles or two Chinese Destroyers.
It is one 30mm cannon with two barrels on a "alternatively locking breech", and not two guns, on the model Mi24 displayed (Mi24-P)
Hey Cap, since you did a Star Destroyer from StarWars how about 'either' the USS Enterprise D (Galaxy Class from Star Trek) OR the ENTIRE US Navy fleet with the first carrier called Enterprise, but then use all the ships the US had available during that time.
lol You been watching star trek on FILM four
Will see what I can find.
Depending on the depth of the Sub, it might feel the waves. the US Sub i served on it 1982 did feel them at 150 feet
Basic Carrier Group attack is as follows. Dive early go slow separate yourselves. Do not put your Periscope up it can be seen on radar. Use passive sonar just absorb their sound and follow it till your close. On a predetermined one pulse signal. Go to Periscope depth and immediately deploy all weapons.
Crash dice and pray because those submarines have all launched on you and your dead. At the speed and depth you were traveling they would have heard you 500 miles away.
You must use thermoclines in the water, different temperatures cause sonar and radar reflection. To hide, run silent run deep.
about the storm:
the super carrier survives easily
the ticonderogas will slow down a lot and maybe get slight damages but survive
the destroyers will either get obliterated or survive with only minor damages, depends on their maneuvers
How you get your DCS to be like this? it dont seem like regular DCS
Do the Oliver hazard perry have depth chargers? I know that they're armed with triple torpedo tunes though and are designed to hunt and kill subs!
Not in DCS, maybe in real life.
Yes, ASW is slow. We called it Awfully Slow Warfare. The whole ASW mode seems buggy. The battle group would have helos dropping torps on you, and the ships would be firing ASROCs. Plus the other warships would be positioning for and over the side torpedo shot.
In the rough weather, money is on the DDGs. The CGs are top heavy and ride like shit on even moderately severe weather.
It's not really a thing in DCS. A guy just added the sub controls for fun, was never supposed to be realistic thouhg :(
Helicopters produce such a strong doppler pulse with their advancing and receding rotors. Helicopters are doppler noisy, no stealth there. I tracked many helicopters that were flying parallel to us and at the same speed with our targeting radar when I was in the Navy. The radar locks onto the spinning rotors, ours had a sound feedback system, and I could always tell when I locked onto a helicopter, the sound in the headphones was 'swiss-swiss-swiss-swiss-swiss-swiss'. I operated and maintained those Seasparrow launchers/radars that you see on the side of the carrier.
This was fun.
You almost flew into the tanker at 9:30 and didn't even notice it :D
Interesting bit of trivia; President Gerald Ford was stationed on an aircraft carrier during a typhoon in WW2 and was almost swept out to sea.
I was in Force 9 + on the Churchil BR Ferry in the Channel. They will not snap they flood empty fuel tanks and ballast tanks.
It seemed to me, and this is totally just a guess, but everytime you would change your view, spin camera angles, or just begin to track onto another target, the movent of the whole sub, or weapon system would be effected. As if controling the camera, somehow effected the subs and weapon systems
My father served in the United States Navy from Korea through the Vietnam War. Destroyers have to put to Sea and evade or ride out hurricanes and or force 10 gales.
I have photographs of these ships returning to Harbor with three feet of solid ice on their upper works
Nice video! Amazing simulation of the ships in rough weather - 46 m/s. About slow helos and RADAR: You seem to forget that the ships have sea-RADAR, capable of seeing everything like a small sailboat and small speedboats. Those RADARs will interpret the low flying helos as speedboats. Subs and sub surface sensors are so poorly modelled that you can just forget about it. For that you need another sim. (Nothing bad in that - this is a flight sim).
The modeled storm was worse than that shown in the video of the carrier. The difference was that in the video, it was white water on deck - ie, mostly spray and foam. As modeled, it was definitely showing green water on deck - ie, unbroken water - which translates out to tons of water on deck. Odds on, that would cause the carrier to ship so much water it would sink, even if the back was not broken. Of course, as modeled the ships were pitching far more than would be expected given the wave length shown; so I would draw no conclusions about the ability of a 90 knot wind to sink a carrier.
Cap use the autopilot of the Gazell you can fly veryvery deep with it
you need to submerge and be close to sea bottom and move slowly silent running and use missiles.then quickmove and release jamming for torpedoes and also asdic etc.
Radar can lock on to rotor blades. I was a navy fire controlman and the CIWS radar will pick up the rotors but at a range inside the horizon of course. Also. Perry frigates can carry 20 harpoons and the 76 mm automallara (sp?) can fire 6 miles at air targets and 9 nm at surface with great accuracy up to 120 rounds per min
I see you have the smale cocpit fan spinning... very realistic
Subs can actually easily defeat a US Carrier group. its been proven time and time again in military ex's. Especially non nuclear subs.
Non nuclear subs, with no systems running are holes in the water, they simply don't make noise. next in an area like the Persian gulf, there are TONS of ship wrecks, sunken oil rigs, and other "clutter". A sub captain can very easily Find one of these clutter points on the map, and set his sub on the bottom, right next to it. So now you have a silent sub, sitting next to a large metallic structure that will mess up MAD Detection's AND mess up active sonar detection.
the sub then just waits for the carrier group to travel over its position. Since there are very limited shipping channels... a captain can likely ensure the carrier will pass within between 0 and 10 nautical miles of their sub. From there, they can fire torps at almost point blank range. this could be anywhere from 4 to 8 torpedoes...
IRL Submarines are the most serious threat for carrier group. This is why carrier needs ASW escort and ASW helos. All other threats are easy to detect from far away (horizon is not a problem there when you got aircraft). The only way to hide is in the deeps, this is the easiest (still very risky) way to sneak to the carrier. What DCS is not showing is effect of ECM on anti ship missiles, those escort ships probably can jam ARH anti ship missiles, also ships carry passive countermeasures that are missing in DCS.
Helos are quite harmless against carrier. They lack proper weapons to sink large ships. Also getting like
the destroyers lost during typhoon cobra were fletchers modern arleigh burks are close to the size of a Atlanta class cruiser which historically braved typhoon cobra without major damage or loss of life.
Can’t see this working as anti missile defence systems like sea wolf, Cwizz ect are designed to take out things like Exocet which are sea skimming missiles
Can I ask you guys what the controller you use for helicopters
I used winwing super libra/taurus. (Cap)
@ 25.03min You watched the full "15 min happy dance workout" that would be youtube gold when the fly on the wall posted that video:)
A ww2 destroyer was a about 2500 tons loaded...a modern destroyer is 8300 tons loaded and over 100 ft longer.
A huge difference when it comes to storms sinking them.
24:40 Also, that’s SALT WATER. If the wave doesn’t get you, the corrosion will…
lols
I wonder if it will be possible to add the level of sim to DCS subs that Deep Waters has. With layers and proper sonar and all that. I'd imagine that the hardest part will be having a system that can run everything at once, Probably need a damn 64 core EPYC server to run it.
A Very interesting show,thanks,
A periscope is seen by a ships radar cap! Has been able to do so since ww2
thx
The guns are damaging the guidewires on the torpedos is my guess.
Cap with combined arms pause/don't use your track ir it moves the cursor on your screen without actually moving it in game
Ah... well that's a problem then...
There would be no flight ops going on in winds and seas that strong. Everything would not only be chained down and there would be extra tie-down chains applied and those chains will not snap. And the ship handling/modeling in DCS apparently Sucks big time. One last note about the ships lost in Typhoon Cobra, they were ordered to keep in formation and not allowed to sail into the wind which would have kept them safer.
No chance of flying Airwolf against them? 9I’m aware that this doesn’t actually exist - but if I remember correctly it was supposed to be a mach2 capable stealth helicopter - I think, lol). You just Stringfellow Hawk to pilot it….. memories, memories 😔😔😪
Periscopes can be detected by radar. During WWII, the allies used radar to detect the submerged subs with nothing but their periscopes up. Modern radars are a tad better.
When I was flying in the S3 operating our mode 1 radar (periscope detection) we could see dolphins jumping in and out of the water, trash bags, waves, and of course sub periscopes. The periscope was easy to see in some cases.
How many cows can you put on a carrier before it sinks?
Wait with combined arms you can control ships now?
Kind of....
The wind needs to be broad side on to the ships
Interesting. The Imperial Japanese Navy had to travel through a big storm during their cruise to get into position for the big Midway battle. Their carriers and support ships made it through the storm and that was 1930-40s tech.
Do these glitches get reported .? Great, entertaining video
Hope you enjoy video
They say the carrier top speed is actually classified due to they don’t want enemy’s to know how fast they can really go, in case of subs or other things firing at them. So they probably go faster then 60 knots, sounds crazy but I believe it.
That rear end of the carrier with the opening, is there an actual DOOR that can be closed? These ships, all of them, are made for war and have more armor than your average freighter or container vessel. Still those vessels in reality can survive a big storm. I don't think these Destroyers would 'sink' so low below the ocean in the swell as here depicted, and they should be strong enough (hull wise) to withstand high waves. And the carrier is practically a floating city. I think if they just prepare for bad weather, close everything down then the carrier is just fine.
It's not that easy; if the waves are high and strong enough they can actually tip a ship over
It's not that easy; if the waves are high and strong enough they can actually tip a ship over. All the armor in the world won't save you from the wrath of mother nature.
I feel like I need to hear the Magnum PI theme while watching them...
Jeez, DCS is almost as buggy as Cyberpunk.
Twas a valiant effort though
You guys are hilarious! 😄
Fun video.
ASROCs would have been on you in 60 seconds
If a you did a sub attack like that in real life running on parascope you would have so many anti sub helos on you and droping topedos. they would do that even if you were submeged
Very rarely are all planes in the hold, there usually isn't enough room. They are ratcheted to the deck at multiple points and rarely does more than a few inches of water hit them.
in my experience experimenting with ships and helicopters, in dcs model you cna be hovering still a centimeter above the ground and ships are still gonna fire at you
the only way to beat them in hteory, at least within dcs is if they ever got close enough to land so you can fire at them while taking cover behind terrain or objects though that's not really a realistic scenario then
But what’s the alternative? Just running your unarmored aluminum box with fan blades straight at the enemy with zero tactics or survival sense? Great way to get yourself killed by enemy small arms fire, and lose a multi-million dollar attack helicopter with multi-million dollar armaments in the process.
A helicopter hovering in the open may as well have a giant “shoot me” sign. In a real combat scenario, an attack helicopter _would_ be hiding behind terrain and objects, popping out to take a few shots, and then ducking back into cover, because otherwise the enemy will shoot it down, and unlike jet aircraft, a helicopter can be taken out by a single soldier with nothing but a rifle and a mag or two of ammo.
On top of that, there’s no ejection system in a helicopter. If your tail gets torn off by machine gun fire, or if your rotors get shot out, you’re now sitting in an aluminum brick falling at terminal velocity, while surrounded by high-power, military-grade explosives and _very_ flammable fuel, and the only way you’re coming out of that is as a cloud of red mist and flash-roasted chunks of muscle and fat as your body gets pancaked and evicerated by colliding with the ground and exploding violently.
@@blademaster2390 well, yes
attack helicopters are just not the ideal weapon to attack warships with
Can we see similar on Admiral Kuznetsov?
The fact that aircraft carriers have windshield wipers makes me happy
I can asure you that despite the comments, i have spent nezr on two weeks in a hurican tnat took place just after an exercise started with three navies taking part.
Many of the ships made a a run for Lisbon and got more damaged in there than if they had stayed at sea.
We stayed at sea, and managed to save a private sea going boat that had flooded its engine room, rather than try and tow it they bought it alongbside and kept it there by setting springs that kept it tight along side we got a repair team to pump out the engine room and dry a few thing out while the crew were taken care of in sick bay.
It wascthe only time that i knew of where the gallies were closed because all the cooks were bad with sea sickness, if you wanted anything you could cook it yourself this included the officers!
We stayed at sea for the whole storm and basically kept the ship moving forward very slowly and travelling with the weather to try and keep the props at least in touch with the water.
It was the only time i have seen a ship almost surfing the inside of a water tube, i stood on the quaterdeck with a wave going over the ship about twenty foot above my head, and just made it back inside and closed the latches on the door before the water went over the quater deck.
We lost a boat and its davits ripped out of the deck, leaving a hole that was just over a fuel tank which was double skined so water did not get into the ship purely because of the waybthe ship,was built, the ship was built in 1943 and had it been a newer ship i dont thinkmitbwould have donevso well
Barber: What can I do for you?
Nobody: Gimmie that GR cut fam!
Barber: Say no more fam!
cap, a 5 inch shell can and will do damage and eventual sink a sup at parascope depth, a 16 inch shell form a battleship could sink a sub at a depth of over 100 feet if it lands ontop of it.
thx
The old diesel Canadian submarines would sink American aircraft carriers in war games. At first the Americans said that was impossible, so they put a spotter on a Canadian submarine and the spotter verified a carrier getting sunk again while he was on board.
Typhoons can wreak havoc on destroyers and frigates of the type in WW2 up to the 1980's. Burke Class would probably be okay with a few bumps and bruises. They're pretty solid when battened down against both fire and water. Broad hull, superstructure well inboard= a very stable ship. Ticos are very narrow and more top heavy with superstructure to the gunnels, and also vertical surfaces to the waves. As long as bulkheads hold tight, should be okay, but a scary ride for sure. Carriers - no problem except fo battening down for the ride. They ave lots of items on wheels from planes to forklifts that can break loose and cause fires.
Adm Halsey's fleet suffered more storm damage during that infamous WW2 typhoon than by any Japanese attack. Those little destroyers, so narrow and top heavy with all the armament had a hard time, and some were lost. Just my opinion.
A US carrier group was sunk several times in war games by a Swedish Gotland class sub
Can you use scuds against the carrier?
Tried but currently they are VERY inaccurate so haven't got one to actually hit yet...
@@grimreapers Yeah they hit like 10 miles from a target.
A lot of these “under the radar sneaking tactics” would pretty much be voided by the surface search radars on carrier/crudes helos that are literally flying 24/7 over the strike group. You can’t get under that radar because it’s emanating from above you and looking down to prevent that very thing from happening.
It seems that based on your simulations the answer is yes everything beats the CG
80% are fails, but we are getting better at figuring out what can beat it.
Is that Robert Llewelyn?
I half expected to see a torpedo hitting that hornet mid-air.
17:13 pop guard or back away from the mic
In the subs you are cavitating like crazy and they can detect your periscope.
How about hypersonic missiles with preemptive EPM strike? It’s a more up to date method and realistic.
It’s not in dcs or not that I know off