If you enjoyed this video don't forget to show it by leaving a like. You can also check out this video if you want to see another French vehicle modified by Romania: th-cam.com/video/x0beKqQW3Io/w-d-xo.html
other reasons than the ones you mentioned (spares and fuel) are ammunition and crew traing. These are of particular importance today, what with countries scrambling to supply modern weapons systems to Ukraine. With crews needing weeks, often months, of training to become proficient on the use of modern equipment, much of it may well end up arriving too late to do much or any good. And the ammunition has the same problem as differing fuel and spares requirements, logistics. Just getting all the disparate supplies to the front lines for the multitude of systems being offered to Ukraine is going to be a nightmare for them, even if they were to still have the logistics network to do so and the air cover for that network to operate unimpeded (they have neither). This logistical hurdle has always been one of NATOs principal shortcomings, as oftentimes different NATO member nations had completely different equipment that didn't accept each other's spares and ammunition (and required differently trained crews as well, but that was partially alleviated by having crews cross train on other countries' equipment). The Warsaw pact had much more standardisation, and this is still seen to this day in the combatants being able to relatively easily integrate captured supplies and equipment into their own units. Efforts to standardise NATO to a degree were somewhat successfull, with especially some ammunition standardisation and standardisation of communications protocols, but the spares and operational training problems (and worse, in some cases doctrinal disparities) between nations were never truly resolved. And these problems of course already started during WW2, with the British and Americans often having disparate fuel, ammo, spares, and doctrine in place that made working together as a cohesive whole very difficult.
Fun Fact: The FCM 36 was tested to see if a more powerful 37mm SA 38 could be installed. The gun could fit in the turret but however, cracks formed in the welds when the gun was continuously firing, thus ending any idea of up-gunning the tank.
That's not actually the full story. A different version of the turret was produced that was reinforced to handle the recoil energy it was never put into production though. I'll talk about it when I do the video on the FCM 36 specifically
I swear if you left you bike unattended for too long the Germans would turn it into some sort of SPG but it is a great if sometimes problematic way to squeeze maximum use out of available recourses
I just imagine parking my car and getting some milk only to return to a bunch of Germans trying to attach a bunch of armor and a 75 mm infantry gun to my poor Chevy.
The standard joke to throw at Germans post-war here in the Netherlands was "Can we get Grandpa's bike back?", since many of the German soldiers fleeing The Netherlands during the liberation of The Netherlands by the Allies did so on stolen bicycles. Of course most Germans didn't have a clue what the Dutch were talking about as this flight by bicycle did not find a prominent spot in their post-war wartime stories, unlike for us Dutch. No doubt, if they had thought to put some type of PaK gun on them, they could have held of the Allies from capturing German soil much longer.
@@alexdemoya2119 fucking pain to deal with, i remember that thing being one of the last things i had to fight in a 12 kill kolobanov's game and it was nerve wracking trying to outsmart it knowing it could tear my pzic apart in 2 shots
Nothing like playing broken ass low tier premium tank, just in case some new players came along just to be killed by you or some others like you in your broken ass tank, you're so cool
People playing this tank are my favorite target. Especially if I'm arty or anything fast with an auto-cannon. I used to enjoy playing Derps but WG made sure to make derps pretty useless..... THANKS OBAMA!
It’s my favorite tank in WOT have a 14 kill match in it. Yes it is a seal clubbers dream. I started playing it when it faced tier 5 tanks like the KV1. you can search mcoondog71 to see the 14 kill match a clan mate produced
The Russians did the same with German armor. They produced significant numbers of the Su76i rd which was a conversion of captured Stugs. It served in the battle of Kursk and was well liked by it's crews until the bugs got ironed out of the Russian Su76. The conversion was not a open top td and was much warmer in the winter then the Soviet Su76. A few survive to this day they were so well liked. The story of the Su76i is worth doing a video on pal. 😎
The difference was that the Red Army essentially took did their conversion in a production line style, every vehicle converted was done in the same way and only vehicles that could realistically be repaired without too much work or where undamaged has this conversion. The rest where scrapped for parts for the converted vehicles or used as targets for ballistic testing etc… Also they Red Army had captured enough of the basic tank chassis so they had a good supply of spares built up so unlike the huge nightmarish array of random FrankenPanzers the Red army really only used this ONE specific conversion beyond local field conversions that every army has a few of.
Canadian Troops for sure encountered and destroyed at least 1 FCM36PAK40, and I think they actually killed 5. It was in a book called "The Weapons of War" or something... my father had it when I was a kid. I still have it somewhere. The FCMPAK was a mystery to me for years as a child as it seemed so different from all the Sherman's and Tigers and Leopards and Panzers in the book. I was always fascinated by it. as well as drawings and descriptions of them, There was a picture of the FCM blown to hell as Canadian brass inspected it. I notice a LOT of the Canadian records and experiences in WWII get overlooked and everyone always focuses on the US and Brittan.
You could try to talk to someone like the youtuber Military History Visualized, that has access to official German Archives from that time period for more information on your topics, or maybe even a colab video. I feel like it could help you a lot, when it comes to talking about German, French or Soviet vehicles.
@@funiculifunicula I still don't know how they crammed that gun in the turret. Allthough it using two part ammunition probably helped, as that was one of the problems with the firefly: the rounds physically didn't fit between the gun breach and the rear turret wall.
8:37 There's something cute about that footage of an obsolete AFV waiting before slowly crossing the road and disappearing into the bushes. It's like a big metal cow or something.
The FCM 36 was very expensive vehicle, costing over twice the cost of a Hotchkiss H 35 and almost twice a Panzer III. FCM had transitioned to producing Char B1s before the war, and so spare parts were limited to the batches produced in 1939. By 1942 companies like Berliet are going to tied up making trucks for the Eastern front so good luck getting new engines and other spare parts. The FCM 36 would have been a difficult chassis to keep in the field in 1943-44.
With how much of a burden they would've been, they could've just instead just use them as tractors for towing stuff such as guns and rearmed with just a standalone mg 34 or a auto-cannon if there was enough room and all faster captured vehicles be used for reconnaissance and infantry support or just melt captured equipment down for their steel and other metals if they're too useless for any other task.
They were kind of desperate, and melting it down doesn't get you more tanks fast as it doesn't increase factory production output. So you end up exchanging a running vehicle today for a new vehicle maybe sometime in the future. Bad trade unless your factory cannot find more raw materials from elsewhere.
you know its amazing with all the documentaries about ww2 in general and tanks in particular, why do we rarely get to hear from the engineers themselves? i want a documentary where we ONLY get to hear from tank engineers and what they have to say about the tanks and explain why they did what they did in the 30s and 40s the breakthroughs and mistakes etc.
Cursed by design, the stuff France came up with after WW2, the ARL, that M4 1949 tank in WOT, the thing with like 250mm turret armor, and fat hull armor.
Alfred Becker was an artist. Can you imagine being given the task of converting these odd French tanks into a vehicle with a 105 mounted on them? Perhaps the solution involved some imagination and a bit of absenthe.
I’m actually in the process of building a model kit of it , in regards to the engine being a diesel , if I’m not mistaken the puma armoured car was a diesel itself so I highly doubt that was the primary reason
The Germans had a whole diesel programme used in the manufacture of trucks and other light vehicles. The base of the Sd.kfz. 234's including Puma was a converted truck chassis. So yeah I don't think diesel itself was that much of a problem as stated.
IIRC the French tank engines didn't run on a standard diesel, but a modified tank diesel which wasn't available in the civilian market. This was because the French government was far more worried about a military coup than other threats. Other decisions they made to limit the threat of a coup was not allowing the armed forces stationed in France the use of radios and denying the officer corps authority to give orders unless authorised by the government. Having to either put new engines in the tanks or supply the fuel in the logistics chain would cause problems. A lot of the captured equipment was used to equipment garrison units as consumables and spares could be sourced locally and not burden the logistics chain in the east. I'm not specifically sure about these conversions, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were used in that way too.
@@DERP_Squad hmm interesting , I did hear the radio bit and the story , however in regards to the diesel being a different type than civilian diesel , you wouldn’t be getting that mixed up with the castor oil used for the hydraulic steering mechanism for the char b1?, just asking , that also makes sense what you are saying because I did also hear that German trucks couldn’t run on Italian petrol.
@@keiranallcott1515 I'm not sure of the exact nature of the differences between the civilian and military fuels, just remember that they specifically had the tanks run on a separate fuel so their operational range would be very limited in the event of a coup attempt. The castor oil thing was just standard bad design IIRC. Two separate oils with the same name, and training didn't include telling the troops that the castor oil they got in drums at the base was different to the stuff they could get from a pharmacy. Edit: In regards to German trucks and Italian petrol is it possible that the Italians had petrol engine trucks and the Germans diesel? Just a thought. Though equally possible they just had engines designed to run on different qualities of fuel.
This is one of those things that make me wonder if a modern army shouldn't have a small dedicated intelligence/Engineering branch whose job is to examine potential enemy's hardware before hostilities start and draw up plans on how to reuse their equipment. It wouldn't be very big and most of their plans would be filed away but it seems like something that would be useful for nations that can afford such efforts.
that has existed since ww1. in ww1 it was well known and common practice that British tanks and Equipment were captured by the germans and almost pressed into service immediatly. they also examined the Mark 4 tanks and base on that they made their own prototypes (example, A7V). same goes for the british. they would capture german equipment and artillery and they would make copy's of them. for example. the small batch of MP-18ish (forgor its propper name and am too lazy to google) produced by the british. in ww2 the soviets would also press german equipment into service a well known example of german equipment in service is with the U.S. Army where a full division used german equipment. including halftracks refitted with the M2 .50 Cal Machine gun and .30 cal machine guns. the Soviets also had a division full of german tanks. including, Panther's. Panzer 3's and 4's and Stugs. in return, the germans also used allied equipment. there are pictures of T-34's in normandy that are being used as recovery vehicles (yes, that is real. look it up lol) and those tanks were earlier models of T-34's with mixed parts from newer models. Germans also used the shermans and stuff. there are also reports of German testing on the sherman's and Stuarts. Soviets also tested the Shermans and M3 Lee's extensively
Standard FCM 36s would have been of more use to the Japanese, who did use diesels, than the Germans. Maybe the Germans could have sold all damaged captured ones to the Japanese as 'scrap metal', and require Vichy to ship all working ones to 'reinforce' French Indochina were they would be readily available for the Japanese to capture. Any upgrades after that would be the Japanese problem.
@@irishbattletoster9265 Good question. I'd assumed Japanese merchant shipping because Japan is at the moment only at war with China. But I forgot the port problem, what port could they pick them up at that wouldn't be under UK interdiction? Maybe ship by rail to Spain and have the Japanese pick them up in a Spanish port?
Japanese merchant shipping was already over-committed with their existing shipping commitments; the necessary sealift capacity didn't exist. Honestly, until the liberty ships started rolling off the ways, *no one* had that kind of sealift capacity - excepting *maybe* the British.
Contrary to popular belief the Germans did use diesel. Mainly in trucks and light vehicles, they had a whole diesel programme. So supporting these SPG with diesel trucks to help with logistics was an option.
Great video on this subject, Cone. While we don't have much info on these upgunned FCM36 tanks, at least the word is out about their existence and that's better than nothing at all. Nice to see my topic suggestion being used.
Back in the day in WoT these little premimum monsters were one of the few things that would put the fear of god into Pz.IICs from the front if they just held W at you
Major Becker was with the 21st Panzer Division from North Africa to the rebuilding in Normandy. The Hotchkiss conversions were in Normandy and used in combat there. I wonder if he did the conversion of the PZ II in North Africa to become a self propelled artillery gun with the 150mm howitzer. His first conversion was the British Mk VI light tanks with both the 75mm AT and 105 mm Howitzer which were used in the siege of Leningrad. As a tank model builder I follow the following categories: Marder I = Conversion of French Light tank chassis Marder II = Conversions on the Panzer II chassis Marder III = Conversions based upon the Pz38t chassis. I believe his family owned Alkett that produced the conversion kits that he designed. Becker’s conversions started with the British Mk VI Light tank using the same two guns. They were used in the siege of Leningrad. Becker received the Iron Cross for these efforts. He was an engineer and related to the family that built the conversion kits.
Thanks for telling me about Becker! I hope someone makes a video of him, his bio says he converted 1800 vehicles overall using soldiers he commanded before on the Eastern Front!
Putting a gun on a mobile mounting is incredibly useful. Whether it was one or one thousand doesn’t matter as the Germans needed every single artillery unit they could get into the field.
Some Great Footage in this Story. All these up gunned french tanks, look like they are about to 'Turn Turtle' or Roll over. I did chuckle at the One which was Festooned with Half a Tree. 🤢 Thinks British Tommy, "Lawd Blimey there's a Huge Bush Heading my way..!?"👀 Yes, I know why and Yes I am a Pommie (or Limey) a True 'Too and From', so I am allowed to think it..! Another Great Video, I have Subscribed on the Strength of it..! Thx for your Efforts..! Cheers All, Kim, a £10 Pom in Oz..! 😎
Hey cone of arc, I was wondering if you have any discord or app where I could reach out to you, because I would like to try to show you a tank I built called the T-34-85 Churchill, which I have seen before I think in a picture, I got it from a prototype tank from 1940s. If you don’t see this message or don’t have any app that is all good, I am also a little bit to late for this video. Great video keep up the great work
I do not think that the supply of diesel fuel was an issue. The Wehrmacht used several diesel powered vehicles (e.g. lorries, locomotives). Probably the low number of available FCM 36 (37 captured) and the lack of spare parts was problematic. But the information is scarce on these tanks. Maybe they were only used as training vehicles? Maybe some were used in combat after the alied landings?
IIRC the French tank engines didn't run on a standard diesel. They needed a diesel with some additives to run. This was done on purpose so that the army would be less capable if there was a coup attempt. The same reason was behind having units based in France being denied the use of radios and having all orders having movement of units outside barracks needing to be approved by the civilian government.
@@DERP_Squad Interesting, it sounds like a french idea... but I am not convinced. Diesel engines at the time were not like the modern computerized engines. How would this work? Which kind of additives would do this? And also in the french tank forces, diesel engines were not common. And the petrol driven tanks did not use such additives?
@@adolfusknall3341 I'm going off memory, but I think it was that the tank fuel needed a higher compression than the diesel that was sold to civilians, so that civilian diesel wouldn't work, or wouldn't work well in the tank engines. The petrol engines might have needed higher octane fuel than the fuel available to civilians. I'm not sure of the exact nature of the differences to the fuel available to civilians, just that the French tanks were designed specifically to not run on fuel available to civilians so that their operational range was limited and they wouldn't be that useful in a potential coup. The French governments in the interwar years were more worried about a coup than any other threat, to the point of paranoia. The left wing governments viewed the army officer corps as conservative and catholic, and therefore a threat to the socialist governments. The right wing governments viewed the officer corps as potential royalists and therefore a threat.
All french tanks has horrible crew ergonomics and a turret that only had room for the commander, no internal commas, no radio for talking to other favs or units etc… which is probably the other real reason these vehicles had their fighting compartments and turret completely removed.
A good example would be say imperial vs metric where say a British metric bolt which is needed for an American tank engine, but that uses imperial and so trying to swap components even as simple as a bolt would be extremely difficult especially when it’s for mass production which in turn requires either modifications to an already existing factory or the creation of a new factory as well as training people to work and understand how and why said components works eg a British engine vs an American engine or better imagine take a Tesla to a auto shop repair for bikes
Until 1942 Germany did face a lot of enemy tanks, that could easily survive the common german tank guns of this time (the short and long 5cm gun of the Panzer III and the short 75mm gun of the Panzer IV), like the B1 bis, the Matilda, the T-34 and the KV series. It was more of a fast and cheap solution for the troops rather than a real tank for mass production, since the long 7.5cm gun was next to the 8.8cm FlaK able to penetrate those targets with great success. That's why so many outdated tanks received this upgrade, like the Panzer II or the Panzer 38(t) - obsolete tanks at this time. That was basicly the entire Marder series, which the FCM 36 became part of.
I think most of them were kept with the garrison units in France. They'd probably be used mostly to shell suspected partisan positions, or otherwise generally for intimidation. The PAK-40 versions probably had much more HE instead of AP available. They were put to use against the Allies shortly after the D-Day landings which suggests they were with garrison units.
@@DERP_Squad the majority of French conversions were issued to the 21st Panzer division which was stationed in normandy and rebuilding after North Afrika, and of which Alfred Becker was a part. There were some other units which had unconverted French tanks which had been used for security or training roles which were encountered in various places, like by the A mericans around Cherbourg for example.
Some of them looked as almost liked priest pulpit armors, “Can I geted an Amen?”….”AAAaa,,,MEN!!!” ….and others looked as liked Frankentanks ! Or Frankenstein Armors !
Wow. An incredible amount of work for just a few vehicles that will not make any difference in the overall war effort. The fuel issue alone should have resulted in these vehicles being scrapped.
It's probable that some of these vehicles served with the 200th Assault Gun Battalion which saw action against the British during Operation Goodwood in the summer of 1944. Unfortunately, as far as I've seen, German reports didn't distinguish between 10.5cm & 7.5cm FCM & 39H, so we have no definitive way of knowing for certain.
there is footage from fighting in Normandy in which these vehicles are shown to be fighting against allied forces... also pretty sure these were used either by 12th ss pz div or panzer lehr.
I'd rather not let someone who has used Reddit as a source and posted multiple videos containing incorrect information with no corrections cover topics when I can do them myself
Perfect storm of substandard tank designed slapped into pressganged designs with glaring flaws from this conversion, then crewed by guys trained for counter insurgency action at most.
If there are no surviving units and they were phased out mysteriously. It may have been as simple as they were dismantled for spare parts or an attempt to reclaim the steel
What happened to these FCM 36s? Probably someone came their senses and realized the logistics were waste of effort. Instead they were probably scrapped to reuse the steel that had to contain alloying elements which were becoming in short supply. The 40 mm of frontal armor would have been weak without at least nickel and probably had others (Mn, Mo, Cr?) as well.
The Hotchkiss based ones were but as far as we know the FCMs weren't. I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility but there's no evidence of it I've come across.
One thing that i have been wonderinng about that people dont really ask about is, Where is Pom-Pom Chan? Her disappearing hits like if they suddenly removed Sokka from ATLA with no explanation forever losing a perfect character (ik it sounds rude but thats how i think of it)
![Загляни в FCM 36. В командирской рубке. [Мир танков]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AoDSSeEkfaI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Загляни в FCM 36. В командирской рубке. [Мир танков]](/img/tr.png)
If you enjoyed this video don't forget to show it by leaving a like. You can also check out this video if you want to see another French vehicle modified by Romania: th-cam.com/video/x0beKqQW3Io/w-d-xo.html
Was good, had a big fun
Could you do a video on the EBR 105 from World Of Tanks? I am interested to see if it is a made up tank or not.
done! 👍👍 :)
among us
other reasons than the ones you mentioned (spares and fuel) are ammunition and crew traing.
These are of particular importance today, what with countries scrambling to supply modern weapons systems to Ukraine.
With crews needing weeks, often months, of training to become proficient on the use of modern equipment, much of it may well end up arriving too late to do much or any good.
And the ammunition has the same problem as differing fuel and spares requirements, logistics. Just getting all the disparate supplies to the front lines for the multitude of systems being offered to Ukraine is going to be a nightmare for them, even if they were to still have the logistics network to do so and the air cover for that network to operate unimpeded (they have neither).
This logistical hurdle has always been one of NATOs principal shortcomings, as oftentimes different NATO member nations had completely different equipment that didn't accept each other's spares and ammunition (and required differently trained crews as well, but that was partially alleviated by having crews cross train on other countries' equipment).
The Warsaw pact had much more standardisation, and this is still seen to this day in the combatants being able to relatively easily integrate captured supplies and equipment into their own units.
Efforts to standardise NATO to a degree were somewhat successfull, with especially some ammunition standardisation and standardisation of communications protocols, but the spares and operational training problems (and worse, in some cases doctrinal disparities) between nations were never truly resolved.
And these problems of course already started during WW2, with the British and Americans often having disparate fuel, ammo, spares, and doctrine in place that made working together as a cohesive whole very difficult.
Watching Germany modify and upgun captured armor is like a tank nerd's version of All Tomorrows
100%
Germany also did trolling with human bioligy🕯️💀
true. i really like it honestly
Germans are the Q confirmed
Well, i guess i have something new to check out.
Fun Fact:
The FCM 36 was tested to see if a more powerful 37mm SA 38 could be installed. The gun could fit in the turret but however, cracks formed in the welds when the gun was continuously firing, thus ending any idea of up-gunning the tank.
That's not actually the full story. A different version of the turret was produced that was reinforced to handle the recoil energy it was never put into production though. I'll talk about it when I do the video on the FCM 36 specifically
@@ConeOfArc As the Chieftain himself said: "The turret couldn't handle the power of this devastating weapon"
when a wimpy 37mm ws considered an up-gun🤣
@@ravenouself4181 Cheiftain also has a notoriously hard time pronouncing selbstfahrlafette.
@@molstad182 It is when you consider what it started out with.
I swear if you left you bike unattended for too long the Germans would turn it into some sort of SPG but it is a great if sometimes problematic way to squeeze maximum use out of available recourses
I live in Germany and I left my bike unattended for a week. They somehow managed to mount a 5cm PaK on it.
@@janm7163 not even a mount for an MP-42 that's disappointing :)
I just imagine parking my car and getting some milk only to return to a bunch of Germans trying to attach a bunch of armor and a 75 mm infantry gun to my poor Chevy.
The standard joke to throw at Germans post-war here in the Netherlands was "Can we get Grandpa's bike back?", since many of the German soldiers fleeing The Netherlands during the liberation of The Netherlands by the Allies did so on stolen bicycles. Of course most Germans didn't have a clue what the Dutch were talking about as this flight by bicycle did not find a prominent spot in their post-war wartime stories, unlike for us Dutch. No doubt, if they had thought to put some type of PaK gun on them, they could have held of the Allies from capturing German soil much longer.
😂
One of my favorite low tier TDs in World of Tanks. That PAK 40 is deadly, as long as you stay hidden!
Same. Its a fun little low tier TD that plays a lot like higher tier german glass cannons. Fun for seal clubbing
@@alexdemoya2119 fucking pain to deal with, i remember that thing being one of the last things i had to fight in a 12 kill kolobanov's game and it was nerve wracking trying to outsmart it knowing it could tear my pzic apart in 2 shots
Nothing like playing broken ass low tier premium tank, just in case some new players came along just to be killed by you or some others like you in your broken ass tank, you're so cool
People playing this tank are my favorite target. Especially if I'm arty or anything fast with an auto-cannon. I used to enjoy playing Derps but WG made sure to make derps pretty useless..... THANKS OBAMA!
It’s my favorite tank in WOT have a 14 kill match in it. Yes it is a seal clubbers dream. I started playing it when it faced tier 5 tanks like the KV1. you can search mcoondog71 to see the 14 kill match a clan mate produced
The Russians did the same with German armor. They produced significant numbers of the Su76i rd which was a conversion of captured Stugs. It served in the battle of Kursk and was well liked by it's crews until the bugs got ironed out of the Russian Su76. The conversion was not a open top td and was much warmer in the winter then the Soviet Su76. A few survive to this day they were so well liked.
The story of the Su76i is worth doing a video on pal. 😎
After wuick google, I didn't know this exist, a Russia StuG. very interresting. thx for the Info.
The difference was that the Red Army essentially took did their conversion in a production line style, every vehicle converted was done in the same way and only vehicles that could realistically be repaired without too much work or where undamaged has this conversion. The rest where scrapped for parts for the converted vehicles or used as targets for ballistic testing etc…
Also they Red Army had captured enough of the basic tank chassis so they had a good supply of spares built up so unlike the huge nightmarish array of random FrankenPanzers the Red army really only used this ONE specific conversion beyond local field conversions that every army has a few of.
@@mojom.9221 The only reason I know it exists is because of wotb lol
that`s a good one.
I would be very interested to learn more about this !
Canadian Troops for sure encountered and destroyed at least 1 FCM36PAK40, and I think they actually killed 5.
It was in a book called "The Weapons of War" or something... my father had it when I was a kid. I still have it somewhere.
The FCMPAK was a mystery to me for years as a child as it seemed so different from all the Sherman's and Tigers and Leopards and Panzers in the book. I was always fascinated by it.
as well as drawings and descriptions of them, There was a picture of the FCM blown to hell as Canadian brass inspected it.
I notice a LOT of the Canadian records and experiences in WWII get overlooked and everyone always focuses on the US and Brittan.
You could try to talk to someone like the youtuber Military History Visualized, that has access to official German Archives from that time period for more information on your topics, or maybe even a colab video. I feel like it could help you a lot, when it comes to talking about German, French or Soviet vehicles.
Yo, Cone, could You take a look at the cursed tanks the Yugoslav Partisans made during WW2 and the early Cold War?
I will never forget PaK 40 Stuart, 2cm Flak 38 Vierling Stuart and, worst of all, SO-122
@@harmdallmeyer6449 SO-122 looks more cursed than Firefly
My vote: YES.
@@funiculifunicula I still don't know how they crammed that gun in the turret. Allthough it using two part ammunition probably helped, as that was one of the problems with the firefly: the rounds physically didn't fit between the gun breach and the rear turret wall.
@@harmdallmeyer6449 the answer to that question is Balkan ingenuity and saint Tito....hahahaha
8:37 There's something cute about that footage of an obsolete AFV waiting before slowly crossing the road and disappearing into the bushes. It's like a big metal cow or something.
The FCM 36 was very expensive vehicle, costing over twice the cost of a Hotchkiss H 35 and almost twice a Panzer III. FCM had transitioned to producing Char B1s before the war, and so spare parts were limited to the batches produced in 1939. By 1942 companies like Berliet are going to tied up making trucks for the Eastern front so good luck getting new engines and other spare parts. The FCM 36 would have been a difficult chassis to keep in the field in 1943-44.
"So, you put a 10.5cm PaK in an FCM 36?"
'Ja.'
"What did you call it?"
'10.5cm PaK on cannon carriage FCM 36.'
-Germans, summarised
And it would be one tongue-twister of a compound word as well.
"thank god we are germans, the name is more cooler in german"
With how much of a burden they would've been, they could've just instead just use them as tractors for towing stuff such as guns and rearmed with just a standalone mg 34 or a auto-cannon if there was enough room and all faster captured vehicles be used for reconnaissance and infantry support or just melt captured equipment down for their steel and other metals if they're too useless for any other task.
You don't melt running equipment! Especially if you are German! And self propelled is better then towed.
They were kind of desperate, and melting it down doesn't get you more tanks fast as it doesn't increase factory production output.
So you end up exchanging a running vehicle today for a new vehicle maybe sometime in the future.
Bad trade unless your factory cannot find more raw materials from elsewhere.
There was no shortage of steel
@@ChristosTsotsoras Germany still had need for tractors to tow stuff, and there were better platforms to use for self-propelled guns.
you know its amazing with all the documentaries about ww2 in general and tanks in particular, why do we rarely get to hear from the engineers themselves? i want a documentary where we ONLY get to hear from tank engineers and what they have to say about the tanks and explain why they did what they did in the 30s and 40s the breakthroughs and mistakes etc.
Cursed by design, the stuff France came up with after WW2, the ARL, that M4 1949 tank in WOT, the thing with like 250mm turret armor, and fat hull armor.
WOTB ARL with a literal house as it’s turret
@@kohencidence4485 it's hilarious to see that thing in the game. Poor KV2s smack it to death and anything else will also pen that turret.
@@tacomas9602 meanwhile the KV-2 in war thunder: I. AM. DESTRUCTION. YOU. MUST. CEASE. TO. EXIST.
And AMX 50 FOCH
Alfred Becker is indeed an interesting character and I would like to see a video talk more about him in the future.
The Original Mad Max
Alfred Becker was an artist. Can you imagine being given the task of converting these odd French tanks into a vehicle with a 105 mounted on them? Perhaps the solution involved some imagination and a bit of absenthe.
Didn't he disappear at thé end off the war ?
@@danydierickx3228 Nope, captured in Alsace in december 1944. After the war he restarted an engineering business.
@@basarends6433 That figures. He was a wartime-only officer who wasn't a ardent Nazi.
I’m actually in the process of building a model kit of it , in regards to the engine being a diesel , if I’m not mistaken the puma armoured car was a diesel itself so I highly doubt that was the primary reason
The Germans had a whole diesel programme used in the manufacture of trucks and other light vehicles. The base of the Sd.kfz. 234's including Puma was a converted truck chassis. So yeah I don't think diesel itself was that much of a problem as stated.
IIRC the French tank engines didn't run on a standard diesel, but a modified tank diesel which wasn't available in the civilian market. This was because the French government was far more worried about a military coup than other threats. Other decisions they made to limit the threat of a coup was not allowing the armed forces stationed in France the use of radios and denying the officer corps authority to give orders unless authorised by the government.
Having to either put new engines in the tanks or supply the fuel in the logistics chain would cause problems. A lot of the captured equipment was used to equipment garrison units as consumables and spares could be sourced locally and not burden the logistics chain in the east. I'm not specifically sure about these conversions, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were used in that way too.
@@DERP_Squad hmm interesting , I did hear the radio bit and the story , however in regards to the diesel being a different type than civilian diesel , you wouldn’t be getting that mixed up with the castor oil used for the hydraulic steering mechanism for the char b1?, just asking , that also makes sense what you are saying because I did also hear that German trucks couldn’t run on Italian petrol.
@@keiranallcott1515 I'm not sure of the exact nature of the differences between the civilian and military fuels, just remember that they specifically had the tanks run on a separate fuel so their operational range would be very limited in the event of a coup attempt. The castor oil thing was just standard bad design IIRC. Two separate oils with the same name, and training didn't include telling the troops that the castor oil they got in drums at the base was different to the stuff they could get from a pharmacy.
Edit: In regards to German trucks and Italian petrol is it possible that the Italians had petrol engine trucks and the Germans diesel? Just a thought. Though equally possible they just had engines designed to run on different qualities of fuel.
Most of these mods using old french tanks. half-tracks & armored cars were assigned to the reconstituted 21st Panzer Division. I think
This is one of those things that make me wonder if a modern army shouldn't have a small dedicated intelligence/Engineering branch whose job is to examine potential enemy's hardware before hostilities start and draw up plans on how to reuse their equipment. It wouldn't be very big and most of their plans would be filed away but it seems like something that would be useful for nations that can afford such efforts.
This exists.
that has existed since ww1. in ww1 it was well known and common practice that British tanks and Equipment were captured by the germans and almost pressed into service immediatly. they also examined the Mark 4 tanks and base on that they made their own prototypes (example, A7V). same goes for the british. they would capture german equipment and artillery and they would make copy's of them. for example. the small batch of MP-18ish (forgor its propper name and am too lazy to google) produced by the british.
in ww2 the soviets would also press german equipment into service
a well known example of german equipment in service is with the U.S. Army where a full division used german equipment. including halftracks refitted with the M2 .50 Cal Machine gun and .30 cal machine guns. the Soviets also had a division full of german tanks. including, Panther's. Panzer 3's and 4's and Stugs. in return, the germans also used allied equipment. there are pictures of T-34's in normandy that are being used as recovery vehicles (yes, that is real. look it up lol) and those tanks were earlier models of T-34's with mixed parts from newer models. Germans also used the shermans and stuff. there are also reports of German testing on the sherman's and Stuarts. Soviets also tested the Shermans and M3 Lee's extensively
@@colindols4112 Lancaster SMG is the gun you were looking for
@@user-njyzcip yes. thanks!
@@colindols4112 The Germans thought they could do better than the mark 4 and ended up doing so much worse.
Ah, Alfred Becker. That guy did more for the German war effort than most tank engineers.
(I'm kidding, but the guy's truly is a legend.)
yes I would like to see a Cone of Arc special on him please!
He's like the German counterpart to Percy Hobart
@@SuperDarkSamurai1 Agreed.
excellent as always and expected thanks
I knew of the Becker designed tanks but not in as much detail as I watched here. Thanks for sharing this.
Found you in recommended list. Learned new historical details I never knew. Earned a new sub.
Standard FCM 36s would have been of more use to the Japanese, who did use diesels, than the Germans. Maybe the Germans could have sold all damaged captured ones to the Japanese as 'scrap metal', and require Vichy to ship all working ones to 'reinforce' French Indochina were they would be readily available for the Japanese to capture. Any upgrades after that would be the Japanese problem.
How would the metal get to Japan?
@@irishbattletoster9265 Good question. I'd assumed Japanese merchant shipping because Japan is at the moment only at war with China. But I forgot the port problem, what port could they pick them up at that wouldn't be under UK interdiction? Maybe ship by rail to Spain and have the Japanese pick them up in a Spanish port?
Japanese merchant shipping was already over-committed with their existing shipping commitments; the necessary sealift capacity didn't exist. Honestly, until the liberty ships started rolling off the ways, *no one* had that kind of sealift capacity - excepting *maybe* the British.
@@irishbattletoster9265 the Soviet Union maybe given the so called alliance?
Contrary to popular belief the Germans did use diesel. Mainly in trucks and light vehicles, they had a whole diesel programme. So supporting these SPG with diesel trucks to help with logistics was an option.
ah yes, the C O N E
My favorite images of French tanks is seeing a bunch of destroyed H-39s in Lapland after being destroyed by the Finnish in 44
Great video on this subject, Cone. While we don't have much info on these upgunned FCM36 tanks, at least the word is out about their existence and that's better than nothing at all.
Nice to see my topic suggestion being used.
Back in the day in WoT these little premimum monsters were one of the few things that would put the fear of god into Pz.IICs from the front if they just held W at you
Major Becker was with the 21st Panzer Division from North Africa to the rebuilding in Normandy. The Hotchkiss conversions were in Normandy and used in combat there. I wonder if he did the conversion of the PZ II in North Africa to become a self propelled artillery gun with the 150mm howitzer. His first conversion was the British Mk VI light tanks with both the 75mm AT and 105 mm Howitzer which were used in the siege of Leningrad.
As a tank model builder I follow the following categories:
Marder I = Conversion of French Light tank chassis
Marder II = Conversions on the Panzer II chassis
Marder III = Conversions based upon the Pz38t chassis.
I believe his family owned Alkett that produced the conversion kits that he designed.
Becker’s conversions started with the British Mk VI Light tank using the same two guns. They were used in the siege of Leningrad. Becker received the Iron Cross for these efforts. He was an engineer and related to the family that built the conversion kits.
"The German army ran primarily on two types of fuel: grass for their horses & petrol for their vehicles" LOL
How about the panzer 4 with an 88 just plopped on top. Or the Leichte PzH18/40/2. Since it was a compilation tank between Rheinmetall-Borsig and Krupp
Wtf
Thanks for telling me about Becker! I hope someone makes a video of him, his bio says he converted 1800 vehicles overall using soldiers he commanded before on the Eastern Front!
8:48 tank returns to the bush kingdom
Putting a gun on a mobile mounting is incredibly useful. Whether it was one or one thousand doesn’t matter as the Germans needed every single artillery unit they could get into the field.
My Opas vehicle was a Marder …he was very happy when the Panzerjager IV L/70 was issued
Fantastic video, love the footage
That ARL conversion looked pretty neat
Great vid ConeofArc! I like this vehicle in World of Tanks, the FCM 36 Pak40 TD.
They said "off with the head!" Removing Cone of Arc's head and they put a big gun in its place? Oh the humanity!
3:58 lol poor dude got his welding electrode to not start very well
Some Great Footage in this Story. All these up gunned french tanks, look like they are about to 'Turn Turtle' or Roll over.
I did chuckle at the One which was Festooned with Half a Tree. 🤢
Thinks British Tommy,
"Lawd Blimey there's a Huge Bush Heading my way..!?"👀
Yes, I know why and Yes I am a Pommie (or Limey) a True 'Too and From', so I am allowed to think it..!
Another Great Video, I have Subscribed on the Strength of it..!
Thx for your Efforts..!
Cheers All, Kim, a £10 Pom in Oz..! 😎
2:00 He forgot the third fuel. Meth for the men
As weak as they were, I'd still think it would be neat to see them in War Thunder!
I think they would fit well around 3.0 in the German tech tree or maybe the French
the Hotchkiss Panzerjager would be fantastic, but it would be premium no doubt........good thing I get eagles now.
I'm always interested in more derp guns, give me that juicy low tier 105
Those were used in the battle for Normandy outside the city of caen, mostly destroyed in falase pocket...
That looks hideous lol
Substance over style; not what we usually see.
i like it, like an angular mountain of metal
2:39
The nightmare of every wot player
Cone talking about his waifu tank is very fun to watch.
Love the anime avatar, adds some humor and color
There was also another victim, the Char B1 with with the 10.5 cm Le.F.H. 18 L/28, Which is also on WoT as the 105 leFH18B2 or lefefefe-fefe
Those names took so long to say the war ended before the orders could be typed
Hey cone of arc, I was wondering if you have any discord or app where I could reach out to you, because I would like to try to show you a tank I built called the T-34-85 Churchill, which I have seen before I think in a picture, I got it from a prototype tank from 1940s. If you don’t see this message or don’t have any app that is all good, I am also a little bit to late for this video. Great video keep up the great work
I do not think that the supply of diesel fuel was an issue. The Wehrmacht used several diesel powered vehicles (e.g. lorries, locomotives). Probably the low number of available FCM 36 (37 captured) and the lack of spare parts was problematic.
But the information is scarce on these tanks. Maybe they were only used as training vehicles? Maybe some were used in combat after the alied landings?
IIRC the French tank engines didn't run on a standard diesel. They needed a diesel with some additives to run. This was done on purpose so that the army would be less capable if there was a coup attempt. The same reason was behind having units based in France being denied the use of radios and having all orders having movement of units outside barracks needing to be approved by the civilian government.
@@DERP_Squad Interesting, it sounds like a french idea... but I am not convinced. Diesel engines at the time were not like the modern computerized engines. How would this work? Which kind of additives would do this? And also in the french tank forces, diesel engines were not common. And the petrol driven tanks did not use such additives?
@@adolfusknall3341 I'm going off memory, but I think it was that the tank fuel needed a higher compression than the diesel that was sold to civilians, so that civilian diesel wouldn't work, or wouldn't work well in the tank engines. The petrol engines might have needed higher octane fuel than the fuel available to civilians. I'm not sure of the exact nature of the differences to the fuel available to civilians, just that the French tanks were designed specifically to not run on fuel available to civilians so that their operational range was limited and they wouldn't be that useful in a potential coup.
The French governments in the interwar years were more worried about a coup than any other threat, to the point of paranoia. The left wing governments viewed the army officer corps as conservative and catholic, and therefore a threat to the socialist governments. The right wing governments viewed the officer corps as potential royalists and therefore a threat.
All french tanks has horrible crew ergonomics and a turret that only had room for the commander, no internal commas, no radio for talking to other favs or units etc… which is probably the other real reason these vehicles had their fighting compartments and turret completely removed.
The pak in wot is like the archer, devistating in the right hands. I saw 1 with an aiming mod just kill everyone.
Really surprised these things have been documented with video footage
Nice video, thank you. Walter J. Spielberger's book "Beute-Kraftfahrzeuge und -Panzer der deutschen Wehrmacht# has a capitel called " Fall Becker".
A good example would be say imperial vs metric where say a British metric bolt which is needed for an American tank engine, but that uses imperial and so trying to swap components even as simple as a bolt would be extremely difficult especially when it’s for mass production which in turn requires either modifications to an already existing factory or the creation of a new factory as well as training people to work and understand how and why said components works eg a British engine vs an American engine or better imagine take a Tesla to a auto shop repair for bikes
I don’t know why, but the FCM 36 has a really retro-futuristic appearance to it.
The FrenchToasterKampfwagen, truly the bane of all tier 3’s and 4’s
ConeOfArc turned into the TubOfArc via German engineering
Remember havung those Pack 40 fcm in Company of Heroes Tales of Valor
Every sector of the Qualitative spectrum is being explored here
Incredible History
This… This is pretty Sad
The writing on the wall
Good lesson
Wow, that PAK 40 versions seems like such a weird choice. I get the 10.5 infantry support role, but in an anti-tank role?
Until 1942 Germany did face a lot of enemy tanks, that could easily survive the common german tank guns of this time (the short and long 5cm gun of the Panzer III and the short 75mm gun of the Panzer IV), like the B1 bis, the Matilda, the T-34 and the KV series. It was more of a fast and cheap solution for the troops rather than a real tank for mass production, since the long 7.5cm gun was next to the 8.8cm FlaK able to penetrate those targets with great success. That's why so many outdated tanks received this upgrade, like the Panzer II or the Panzer 38(t) - obsolete tanks at this time. That was basicly the entire Marder series, which the FCM 36 became part of.
I think most of them were kept with the garrison units in France. They'd probably be used mostly to shell suspected partisan positions, or otherwise generally for intimidation. The PAK-40 versions probably had much more HE instead of AP available.
They were put to use against the Allies shortly after the D-Day landings which suggests they were with garrison units.
@@DERP_Squad the majority of French conversions were issued to the 21st Panzer division which was stationed in normandy and rebuilding after North Afrika, and of which Alfred Becker was a part. There were some other units which had unconverted French tanks which had been used for security or training roles which were encountered in various places, like by the A
mericans around Cherbourg for example.
Yep, ...Amateurs talk tactics... professionals talk logistics.
Some of them looked as almost liked priest pulpit armors, “Can I geted an Amen?”….”AAAaa,,,MEN!!!” ….and others looked as liked Frankentanks ! Or Frankenstein Armors !
@ 7:25 I kept expecting Jawas to exit the vehicle...
I honestly really want this in warthunder lol.
There is a "Lot" Captured Vehicle converted to carrying 10.5cm leFH 18
Such a cute tank turned into an ad hoc SPG. How barbaric.
Victim? It should be an Honor! :D
1:52 You forgot the other type of fuel: Meth for der Fuhrer
Honestly the thing from thumbnail is way better than original, considering how bad that tank's original gun (from ww1, mind you) is.
I totally bought this tank in world of tank blitz just because of how cursed it looked lol.
Wow. An incredible amount of work for just a few vehicles that will not make any difference in the overall war effort. The fuel issue alone should have resulted in these vehicles being scrapped.
“Victim of German Engineering”. That’s an unexpected title.
It's probable that some of these vehicles served with the 200th Assault Gun Battalion which saw action against the British during Operation Goodwood in the summer of 1944. Unfortunately, as far as I've seen, German reports didn't distinguish between 10.5cm & 7.5cm FCM & 39H, so we have no definitive way of knowing for certain.
there is footage from fighting in Normandy in which these vehicles are shown to be fighting against allied forces... also pretty sure these were used either by 12th ss pz div or panzer lehr.
21st Panzer. Becker was attachted to that unit with Sturmgeschutzabteilung 200.
2:45 Let Doctor Felton deal with that!
I'd rather not let someone who has used Reddit as a source and posted multiple videos containing incorrect information with no corrections cover topics when I can do them myself
french tanks used by germany were slaughtered
yeah
Perfect storm of substandard tank designed slapped into pressganged designs with glaring flaws from this conversion, then crewed by guys trained for counter insurgency action at most.
Warthunder When?
Seriously though, I do want to fight battles in these tanks.
Alice from gup pfp
@@HiroKiselyov yes
we don't even have the Marder I or II (both versions) yet. we need em.
If there are no surviving units and they were phased out mysteriously. It may have been as simple as they were dismantled for spare parts or an attempt to reclaim the steel
Or destroyed in combat and scrapped.
What happened to these FCM 36s? Probably someone came their senses and realized the logistics were waste of effort. Instead they were probably scrapped to reuse the steel that had to contain alloying elements which were becoming in short supply. The 40 mm of frontal armor would have been weak without at least nickel and probably had others (Mn, Mo, Cr?) as well.
Becker certainly had an interesting job.
Watching this has inspired me to build a 4 bed house on top of my 3 bed house.
Weren't these used in Normandy? I guess I've been mistaken all these years. Great video!
The Hotchkiss based ones were but as far as we know the FCMs weren't. I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility but there's no evidence of it I've come across.
Shit that looks like something I would draw if asked to make a *thicc* tank
Saw some french tanks being used on armored train platforms but I doubt it was these forehead chad tankets
One thing that i have been wonderinng about that people dont really ask about is, Where is Pom-Pom Chan? Her disappearing hits like if they suddenly removed Sokka from ATLA with no explanation forever losing a perfect character (ik it sounds rude but thats how i think of it)
Yet another Gun with a vehicle attached to it
This is an awesome story.
These logistic nightmares are being repeated today.
0:24 No way bush spam was historically accurate
Ah yes the Bathtub
Good Vid - however, the Germans used Diesel later in the War for the Armored Car .
France: “Look how they massacred my boy…”
the original G-wagon
Ngl as a 105mm SPG i'd think combat wise they did average.
Like basically able to do what the Wespe can do.
Kinda looks like the TACAM R2
thank you very much for this content. i am a tank nut and play all tank games that i like...
Funny this comes onto my feed the same day I bought this little AT on WOTB for $3 LMFAO