LNER's 8 wheeled experimental express engines - LNER P2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2022
- In today's video, we take a look at the P2s, Nigel Gresley's highland express engines with a few experimental features.
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Just a friendly note that there is actually also an 8th P2 under construction too.
- The 7th P2 project, 2007 Prince of Wales, costing £6M was launched in 2013 and has progressed as far as building the frames, tender, cladding, wheelsets and cylinder block, with the boiler and electronics on order. The build will recreate the original streamlining and feature rotary cam valve gear, but with many updates under the skin to try and improve the original design. This P2 is being built in Darlington.
- The 8th P2 Project, 2001 Cock o' the North, costing £5.5M+ and launched before the other project, has not progressed so far, having so far built the frames and designed many parts in CAD. They aim to build a faithful replica of 2001 in it's 1938 rebuilt form, with streamlining and Walchaerts valve gear. This P2 is being built in Doncaster.
Arguably having two companies rebuilding the same class of locomotive (while not publicly collaborating or acknowledging each other) is not particularly helpful, and the fact that you got confused between them is completely understandable. Anyway, still a great video ;)
Wait, you guys are building TWO OF THEM?! Well, that just made this Florida man's day!
@@fuzzyhead878 Yup, we are mad. 🤣
I think building a faithful P2 replica is slightly, dumb if I'm honest 😂. It's a flawed class and the A1 society acknowledging that rather than going down this 'Gresley is great with no flaws' idea is odd to say the least
Yes, I've heard of this 8th one you talk of. As you say SFA about its existence or why it's being built.
@@profcraneporter The big question is, what is a “faithful” replica? Each of the class was different.
I like the idea of building a new member of the class, not a replica of a dead engine.
Edward Thomason rebuilt a lot of Gresley engines due to wartime shortages and wanting to make the engines more standardised and have longer maintenance intervals and be easier to work on. A lot of people don’t like Thompson engines but the truth is he was given the near impossible task of making extremely complicated and unique engines less complicated and standardised on a shoestring budget. The Thompson B1s which he designed from scratch where great engines comparable to the black 5
That may be true but one thing that we can all agree on is that when thomson redesigned the P2s shit hit the fan
@@dilophosaursniper5399 as well as rebuilding the A1. it wasnt terrible but like, really, you couldnt have built a new one?
@@arry5432 according to Simon Martin Great Northern just happened to be the A1 that was due for major overhaul when Thompson wanted to do the rebuild experiment. The loco just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The LNER post war was easily the worst off financially of the big 4 which is why they did the rebuilds so they couldn't really afford to build new locos so rebuilding the Gresley designs to make them easier to work on was really the only option the company had
@@arry5432 When Thompson rebuilt A1 great Northern it was down to the fact the locomotive was in a clapped out and worn condition. It was in such a poor state a complete rebuild was his only option. This also gave him a test bed for future modifications he would use in his own classes. He didn't really care for looks, but more for reliability and ease of Maintenace
@@arry5432 the lner was so poor at the time. They couldn’t build a new one. They had to make do with what they had.
Greasly really was just a mad engineer with bear infinite amount of money. I would love to have been a fly on the wall when Greasly rocks in and goes, “What if we put the boiler from a ship, in a steam train?”
Or “What if we made a 2-8-2 express engine?
Or even, “What if we made an engine, with 6 cylinders?”
The LNER was the poorest of the big 4, gresley made it even more poor.
He was a fool
@@trainskitsetc He may have done. But at least they were poor… with style.
@@DTChapman1 ...yeesssss because that's the aim of a railway...
@@DTChapman1 they weren't just the poorest they actually never turned a profit, not one single year of the LNERs existence did they make any money... probably in no small part thanks to the silly persuit of speed and prestige rather than focusing on becoming more economically stable and repaying the debts they'd inherited at grouping.
@@trainskitsetc seeking prestige is a very British thing,solving problems isn't a very British thing. So in this sense,Gresley succeeded
Few extra notes
The P2s not only resulted in the A4s but also the Peppercorn A1s (as the P2s lead to the A2/2 which went onto the A2/3 then the Peppercorn A2 and A1)
The main reason for rebuilding the P2s seems to have been their low availability figures due to their crank axles failures (though this seems to have been an unknown flaw as to why it kept going wrong). Thane of Fife was the first rebuilt but it wasn't until a year later the other 5 were also, as they did test her to ensure that the A2/2s would perform better than the P2s, which arguably they were improvements if only incremental ones
The reason for the crank axle failure was due to it being the same design as the gresely A1 and A3 for interchangeability which was fine for them but as for the P2 they lack beef to withstand its power
Y'know, I really should have expected to see you in this comment section, Crane, and yet I'm still surprised 🤦♂️😅
The Photograph showing the New Build P2 wasn’t taken in Doncaster, but in Hope Town, Darlington, of 2007, Prince of Wales.
I never knew there was a version with smoke deflectors, and I’m in love with it. It’s got such a stroke presence
If you follow Hornby model railways at all, the P2 in it's original shape is actually one of the models they've been concentrating on over the past year.
I love it when someone attempts to bring back a steam locomotive that has been extinct for a long time. There are so many opportunities.
Grey-haired men playing trains.
@@EllieMaes-Grandad I'm talking about full size operational steam locomotives.
@@andrewchapman2024 So am I. I see too much emotion and too little sound business sense.
An interesting class for sure, I'm looking forward to the new build. Also "Wolf of Badenoch" has to be coolest name any locomotive has ever been given.
The LBSCR, or maybe it was the SER which came before it, had a class called slaughters.
The Wolf of Badenoch, the son of King Robert II, is infamous in Scottish history for having burnt down Elgin Cathedral. There are also many miffed people that the new engine is called Prince of Wales as his title in Scotland is Duke of Rothesay.
How about ... Isambard Kingdom Brunel .. That takes some beating. Little schoolboy me saw that locomotive fresh out of Swindon Railway UK works back in the 1950s looking like a brand new build. As it approached, I was expecting to see a Castle nameplate but it had been renamed. That Castle Class were impressive with four cylinders. I saw one at full chat through Swindon Railway Station heading "The Bristolian" outbound from London to Bristol. Until then, I had no idea a steam train with so many long coaches could travel so fast as it flashed through the station non-stop express style. The eight power pulse exhausts from the four cylinders merging into one glorious continuous sound at that speed.
Had no idea what that name was about back then. I now know and IKB is top of my engineering heroes.
Have you heard of the Great Northern P-2 mountain types? They were used on trains like the Empire Builder and the Oriental Limited quite powerful locomotives very helpful for the grade outside of St. Paul Union Station
One of the most awesome locos ever built and a pox on Edward Thompsons rebuilds! as he did with the the pioneer A1 'Great Northern' looking forward to the new P2
Had they been shifted to the ECML during WW2 instead of being expensively rebuilt, it would have made much more sense. The matter has never been properly investigated.
@@EllieMaes-Grandad it seems to have been that the standard crank axle (shared with the Pacifics) was not strong enough for these powerful locomotives. Why a stronger one wasn’t substituted as an upgrade is beyond me, as I recall that the crank axles even gave trouble on the Pacifics!
4:40 Correction Prince of Wales is actually being built in Darlington while a working Replica of Cock O The North is actually being built at Doncaster
The P2s look really nice!
I'd love to see a video on Blue Peter! Specifically their wheelspin incident.
@Sam'll fix it I know the story, though I still think it would be interesting to hear train of thought's, thoughts on the story.
YT article about it.
th-cam.com/video/9R_vMqlM9JM/w-d-xo.html
The rare Mikado P2 of the UK.
Other rail operators outside of UK used them as heavy freight locomotives. The UK however put them on passenger express. The power and adhesion was certainly needed but they still didn't harness the full potential of the Mikado type by not switching to a Janney type, or other derivatives stronger than a chain link coupling, for coupling cars/trucks together. This problem also spelled the end for the garatts as their power could decouple them to their trains.
The x-8-x wheel arrangements is in between the x-6-x for speed and the x-10-x for heavy freight. The x-8-x has large enough driving wheels to go fast without compensating adhesion. It can carry a larger boiler owing to its longer frame. It can do both express pax and moderate freight without bogging down unlike the speed demons of the x-6-x. Some crazy contraptions based on the x-8-x platform is the widely debated T1. The 8 wheel formula also made the Big Boys balance of adhesion and speed. And the last 8 wheel platform to truly challenge electric locomotive was from the SNCF 4-8-4.
That photo of P2 Prince of Wales is taken at Hopetown Works, Darlington, NOT Doncaster.
When Cock O' The North had its front cut down to the wedge shape, you could really call it a circumcision
I think every locomotive shown is a real beauty in its' own right! Thank you for sharing!!
Excellent bit of information on these amazing engines there. Many thanks
The P2 makes me wish Britain's railways had more mikado type locomotives. I find it strange (not in a bad way) that you guys didn't have more, but that might just be me being an American where we had 2-8-2's like popcorn at a theater. But I'm guessing 2-8-0's and 4-6-0's did the trick for y'all just fine. Can't argue with the Black 5 or 8F after all.
The only bigger loco that really worked for the UK was the 9F, which was better than the menagerie of other large locos built for niche purposes, and could also be used as a mixed traffic loco (although not advised due to the small driving wheels, even if it could do 100mph with them). It was just the right engine, at the right time.
@@mattevans4377 That too. The 9F’s are arguably the prettiest 2-10-0’s ever produced.
Railways in the Uk were into building their own motive power with individual regional companies having vastly differing views on what was required and unlike the US with seriously dedicated locomotive builders offering off the shelf products modified to suit. Gresley appears with the P2's to have taken a look into the abyss of horses for courses with a little twist of devilry added for spice.
What was needed in Scotland was a locomotive with light axle weight, high tractive effort and good acceleration, top speed not being something that really figured in the equation with stations being in such close proximity on a route more up or down than flat, the tech already existed so what led him off on such a tangent no one will ever really know possibly the low predicted class numbers lent itself to some petty flights of fancy only he would know. Was the P2 a failure? in essence yes, let down by a lack of finality in design, could they have been a great locomotive. doubtful, they would not have fitted well into freight operations-basically being too big for the day and the only other route they might have served well on belonged to the midland railway that time frame was filled by the 9f years later which employed everything the P2 lacked, All is not lost with the build of a new old design but even there they have taken a box of what was, shook at severely and whatever fell out is what they are building again with added spice, will it work out of the box, doubtful it will but they will fix it eventually because its the only one they have to play with.
@@jamesedwards7241 In fairness, David Elliot has corrected in his design of P2 2007 the earlier problems with the pony truck that led to poor handling and crank axle faults, and the Lentz valvegear that was prone to wear will use better materials. Still a way to go but it's come on leaps and bounds since my visit, shortly after the frames were erected.
Economies of scale: nations built the engines which were most needed and worked best for them. The UK had the most comprehensive rail network on earth, one which reached every city, town, village, and hamlet. Gigantic 2-10-2's or similar engines would have been economic suicide. The Soviet Union also had big engines because they needed them.
In addition to the excellent information this channel provides, I enjoy how often I have to double-take at the background music you choose to use.
I guess the Excess Express theme from Paper Mario is appropriate this time given the subject matter, but the choice to go with the night theme is interesting.
I used to do my trainspotting back in the 1950s and never seen any of these P2s but do remember very well some of the rebuilt A2s and from my point of view they were one of the most beautiful engines running around at that time and powerful too, I can remember one vivid memory of seeing 60535 Hornets Beauty in ex works condition coming out of Doncaster works in 1959 and for me personally I thought Thompson was way ahead of his time with regards his designs especially the P2s, and with regards to the A2s tractive effort they were as powerful as the Princes Coronation class and some even more powerful and they were only a 3cyl locomotive, thankfully there is one nearly completed at the moment and that will be some sight to see.
I'm a big fan of the P2s and I think that they are perfectly designed locomotives! I find it hard to decide on which look I prefer better: Cock O' The North's look or the A4 like boiler. An A4 front and boiler on a 2-8-2 wheel base is just perfection!
They needed to be sliced apart with cutting torches, broken into scrap, and melted down. Which they duely were! Excellent result!
@@PreservationEnthusiastok Mr/Ms. Killjoy
@@Combes_ Scrapping polluting steam locomotives is a very beneficial activity to help protect the environment and recycle the metals.
@@PreservationEnthusiast L.D. Porta, ever heard of him? I doubt it
Luke I Want To Talk About Steam Engines
Love your interesting content. Thank you. 😊
Im a massive LNER fan so I can’t wait for the P2 to make its grand return
Thanks for sharing 👍
Thompson took over as CME at a point when the LNER was in dire straits due to WW2, a lack of funds and a fleet of locomotives that had a something of a mixed reputation. The P2s were costly to run and maintain, and caused problems on the track on the Edinburgh to Aberdeen line. They also spent a lot of time in works at a time when the LNER needed as much of its motive power to be available for the war effort as possible. They were a small, non standard class so Thompson tried to make them more reliable and easier to maintain with a greater route availability. The rebuilds may not have fully succeeded but they did pave the way for the rest of the Thompson and Peppercorn Pacific designs that would serve for the next 20 years. As for the rebuilding of Great Northern, Thompson would have had no interest or input as to which individual Gresley A1 would have been chosen. Great Northern happened to be about to enter works at the time the rebuild request was agreed. The LNER did not have the resources to build a potentially one off brand new prototype from scratch at that time so modifying a suitable existing loco would have been the only option. Thompson gets a raw deal at times but he took charge at a time when the LNER had a number of significant challenges and restrictions, he did an incredible job under very challenging circumstances.
Plus the fact that most of the LNER locomotives are Gresley design, Thompson don't have much of a choice on that one. History In The Dark did a video topic on him.
Idk how you didn't covered the P2s early,but is nice anyways
I can’t wait to see the new build P2s when both Prince of Wales and Cock o’ the North are completed. I can just imagine how intimidating they’ll look when you stand next to them on a platform, something no one has experienced for a long time.
The new P2 (Prince of Wales) is actually being built in Darlington not Doncaster
Experimentation and innovation is always fun.
Hey there were like 7 classes of steam locomotives in the USA that could have broken that speed record but couldn't for legal reasons
Your pronunciations are right on mate 🚂 thanks for an interesting video
One thing that interests me is the fact that the 2-8-2, or Mikado, wheel arrangement, is normally associated with freight locomotives.
Wheel slippage is always an issue with locomotives having an non-driven trailing axle (i.e. 4-6-2) as weight balance transfers rearward under load. Having an additional driven axle helps compensate for this propensity.
Many years earlier, Gresley built a couple of P1s. Superb loco's, they were 'too good' and could haul more loads than the infrastructure could cope with.
Very cool. These sorts of “trial and error on big trains” is a subject of interest.
If it would interest you for a video; the largest/heaviest steam train built in Australia would be worth your time. Currently preserved at the Newport Railway Museum (Melbourne Australia), it was nicknamed Heavy Harry. He had several technical updates for transferring coal into his fire to ensure all parts of the boiler got aliquoted heat. Although not as fast as his smaller contemporaries, he could deliver trains faster than them because he didn’t have issues with inclines. If you want a bit more info or a bit of video, let me know.
For just a minute I thought you were refering to the AD60s, but it turns out they're about 500 lb lighter.
If you go to the steam/machinery museum in scorsby in Melbourne's east there is a 12 inch gauge miniature heavy harry.
It's every bit as impressive as the real one when you consider one bloke built it in his shed.
This exact process of development is still used to this day in automotive engineering
4:39 I thought they were building the new p2 in Darlington not Doncaster
Edit just realised they are building one in Doncaster as well but that is a picture of the Darlington one
The Doncaster project will never be realised.
"Cock of the North"
We've found Jeremy Clarkson in locomotive form.
It's supposedly fast and slightly boorish, so it applies to Jezza. On the other hand it's May who says "oh cock" every other word.
I wonder what trains May and Hammond would be?
Thompson was a realist. Gresley was an eccentric, as was his assistant, Bulleid.
One of the theories why Edward Thompson rebuilt the P2's was of possible anger towards Sir Nigel Gresley, who was his predecessor.
The possible reason for this was that he (Edward Thompson) felt that Gresley had pushed out or was chosen over Sir Vincent Raven (At the Grouping of the railways in 1923, the post of chief mechanical engineer for the London and North Eastern Railway was given to Nigel Gresley of the Great Northern Railway, with Raven becoming a technical adviser. He resigned in 1924 and was appointed to the Royal Commission on New South Wales Government Railways, in company with Sir Sam Fay.)
Given that Edward Thompson had married Sir Vincent Raven's Daughter (Edward Thompson was Raven's son-in-law (married Guendolen in 1913).) perhaps he felt that his father-in-law should have been chosen?
Just a theory.
I love the P2 Cock o the North, so much so that I put a significant amount of money into the Prince of Wales project. I even suggested to the company it should be called the Duke of Edinburgh, as that's a far more relevant name
It should have been called Duke of Rothesay. That is the title of the first in line to the throne in Scotland. Prince of wales is an English title and never used in Scotland. Prince Charles was known as the Duke of Rothesay in Scotland and Prince of Wales in the rest of the UK.
@@derekferguson385 Yes, good one, but I was giving a big 👍 to Phil the Greek because I loved his very un PC nature 😊. Oh and the P2 was originally designed to run from Edinburgh to Aberdeen
also P2 No. 2007 is actually being built at darlington
The music is from Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door Chapter 6 when it was nighttime on the Excess Express.
Interesting how certain locomotives would be completely reconfigured all the way down to the wheel arrangements. Ship of Theseus sort of vibe.
0:34 Im already impressed by its name!
Can't wait for p2 2007 to be complete, can't wait for it to thunder down the Mainline
Nice
If the 7th P2 is finished we hope to see what the P2 could have been when they got it right first time.
The wheel configuration of 2-8-2 is strange the Churchward 2800 8F class locos of the GWR were very successful I think originally from a GCR design? They were mixed traffic locos as used by BR
Maybe do a video on the LNER P1's, they were a pair of 2-8-2's that were built in the 1920's for freight service. Both of them were withdrawn in 1945 approximately 2 months before the second world war ended (and it's basically forgotten about compared to the P2's)
Hi Train of Thought, videos about spirits are begining to make me wine. For a fact Gresley hated double heading, one locomotive one train he had believed, also there were complaints that one of the pair of engine crews had thought they were doing more work than the other, if they both felt that then there were problems!
The new-build P2 is being built in Darlington rather then Doncaster.
I have a question: Say more Gresley locomotives such as A3s, A4s, and V2s had been preserved, would it be possible to construct a replica P2 from their components or would it be easier to build it from scratch?
Could you do a vid on Blue Peter (Engine)
Bring it on, let's make the new build P2 show what it's capable of.
Surely the new P2 is being made at Darlington not Doncaster ?
Someone has their Darlington and Doncaster’s mixed up…😵💫
Yo, excess express music! Nice
I thought the P2s were designed as freight engines, not passenger. And yeah, the 2007, Prince of Wales, following the model of the 2001with a few modern modifications, and to make some parts interchangeable with the Tornado is... I'm going to say nearing completion. Started around the same time as the 2007 is a 2001, cock o' the north replica, but as it appeared after it's first refit to look more like an A4, but I've not heard much about progress on this one. It would be good to see them both completed, as they're both fairly iconic looks.
The Doncaster one will never get beyond owning the frames it has at this point.
@@EllieMaes-Grandad A shame if true, but, how can you be so certain?
I mean, I do doubt it will ever be finished myself too.
@@bobingabout I've met the people . . .
@@EllieMaes-Grandad That's a good way to be certain.
What livery will Pricne Of Wales, be painted in? BR late, early crest or LNER green?
LNER apple green , just like the P2s had when they outshoped
The new P2 being built in Doncaster?????????
ERMMMMMM - Darlington actually.
What a clanger to drop!!
That one is in Transport fever 2 right?
"We" saw plenty of the *here* in Scotland...
Glad that Thompson is starting to be understood with Gresely being seen as having some interesting and sometimes failed loco ideas rather then "Gresely god Thompson bad have every steam train run into my bedroom gobbles"
Yeah it is
Gresley be dropping absolute banger locomotives
Speaking of the Thompson Pacifics, can we expect a video on them? I mean if they pulled the Flying Scotsman they can't be that bad.
They never pulled the Scotsman, it went: 1934 Class A4 > 1958 Class 40 > 1962 Class 55
@@twinboo529 There’s literally a photo of one pulling it.
I would ride that
I would ride everything here though, but still interesting
British steam locomotives won’t be where they are now if it weren’t for Sir Nigel Gresley
LNER P2 is a very interesting steam locomotive, it's actually one of the few 2-8-2s to ever be build in England. I wonder how a northern type 4-8-4 would end up if LNER actually build it? Would be perform well and go on tighter curves or will it end being a huge flop with a wasted potential? Who knows!
Not quite the only ones, there were the two P1 class 2-8-2's also designed by Gresley, for freight use.
@@cr10001 the LNER P1 are actually very different engines compared to the P2.
Not the only 2-8-2. GWR had several 2-8-2 tank engines as well
@@rayhankazianga6817 Oh yeah.
The lner actually proposed a *4-8-2* Known as the I1, but wasn't built due to WWII, and his eventual death
Can you do the br 50 ?
BR 50 being german 9F
or other way around.
@@davidty2006 german
The new P2 has a revised design of the cylinder block to increase clearance, the original had the centre valve ports and chambers too close and wasted energy by superheating the valve ports. Explained here: th-cam.com/video/2b8kDhz7IFw/w-d-xo.html
Everyone commenting here obviously hasn’t got a good word about Gresley and everyone has their own opinions, but lets get one thing right, he was an innovator, who thought outside the box. He also brought the World Speed Record For Steam (unbroken) to the UK and a lot of his ideas were used by others, as well as some of the best looking Locomotives and Rolling Stock. While I remember what does G.W.R. Stand For? Gresley, Was, Right.
For some reason, i always wanna say "LNER" as "Liner"
i wonder what would happen if they were tried on the london to edinburgh route
They were tried there and did a good job. Odd that they never remained there, especially in WW2.
@@EllieMaes-Grandad I wonder what it would be
Like if the LNER Mountain concept (4-8-2) was built
@@TheSudrianTerrier653 A mistake of even greater proportions?
Looked at franch locomotives
Me that train looks similar to the 241 class of franch locomotives
The British being Impressed by 2-8-2s: Wow! The power!
The Americans with Big Boys all over the place pulling miles of freight: Wha- Really??
0:46 No idea what this is, what is it?
Its a type of valve gear
It’s what makes the machines move
Mallard Steam Engines 💝
The 7th P2 2007 Prince of Wales, as in the Photo is not being built in Doncaster, but in Darlington, please get your facts right. There is a rebuild of Cock O’ The North being built in Doncaster, but its not the one in the Photograph.
The p2 is just Standard for german locomotive
Years built:1934-36
you should fix that audio clipping in your intro
i wanna meet a p2 now there any that are non faceless
Actually, an eighth engine is being built too at Doncaster Works. A wedge nosed 2001 replica.
It’s been like 10 years and they’ve only cut out the frame sheets. That’s never getting finished.
Really I did not know that!
@@georgeoliver8300 Really? Yikes. They might as well have donated the frames to Darlington.
@@mlp-hot-rod5824 Grey-haired men playing trains - great people, but ego comes into it.
3:19 allegedly
2-8-2 wheel arrangement, not eight wheels.
um aCtHuAlLy, he was saying eight DRIVING wheels; a loco with eight driving wheels is often referred to as an “8-coupled” engine.
Much prefer Cock o' the North and Marischal's squared-off designs to the streamlined four. Something about them combined with those huge wheels and long frames works. The look of the streamlined engines has never grown on me
please do one on the american freedom train tour of 1975-76
Oh Britain it's weird oh it's weird
When you mention problems, please sayvhatheyvere.
Cock Of The North, my personal favorite 🤣
I'm so immature
They walked so that diesel locomotives can run.
Am I gonna be cancelled for saying I kinda like Thompson designs despite most of them being ugly to most
I actually like his B1 and K1, very neat locos. Have you read Wartime CME by Simon AC Martin, totally debunks the anti Thompson narrative we've been fed all these years..
@@vickielawless haven’t but really want to
Honestly the B1s and K1s are very nice engines
2nd
"Nobody is quite sure what sparked Thompson to do this" I mean all you have to do is look at the (dreadful) availability numbers of the P2's & the fact is was considerably cheaper to rebuild than scrap them build a new loco... They also really didn't flawlessly perform the work theg were given... Train of lack of thought more like
I wished that these locomotives were Thomas characters because it would’ve been an amazing design for a character
5th comment :)
Could they not have named it "Rooster O' The North?" The name is way to inappropriate
some words meant different things then they do now
like "Gay" meant happy and "Fortnight" means 14 days and nights
@@yeoldeseawitch I know what they were trying to mean
TFW Europe had to resort to Mikados but they were so embarrassed by ut this very video dare not mention the word Mikado even once
And you know what that means
MURICA
FUCK YEAH
COMING AGAIN TO SAVE THE MOTHER FUCKING DAY YEAH
AMERICA
FUCK YEAH
TRAIN OF THOUGHT KNOWS WHAT'S UP YEAH
That has to be one of the most stupid and obnoxious trollish comments today. The P2's owed virtually nothing to American practice. If you're going to play that game, I'd point out that American locomotives would have been useless without European Walschaerts or British Stephenson valve gear. But so what? It's a stupid game, nobody has a monopoly on railways.
@@cr10001 There were some US Exports to the UK. The 2-8-2 wheel arrangement did started in the US though.
I did hear about the p2 class but never knew that they were experimental locomotives
Not so much 'experimental locomotives' as locomotives subject to experimentation?
What do you mean by “A more uniform pacific design “???