Green Goats and RP14's; The WORST Switchers You Ever Saw!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ส.ค. 2023
- In todays video, we take a look at some of the wildest looking switchers BNSF and Norfolk Southern ever bought. These engines were supposed to be revolutionary, but they were too problematic to be usable.
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Merch, anyone? www.okieprint.com/SPR/shop/home
Do they force you to use those models? Does that website give creators a choice? Just wondering.
Great videos!
4:59 5:41 unborchinetly
5:47 tudai
5:49
4:48 on talpov that
This man is the definition of Quality over quantity, but at the same time, he has good quantity.
Amen to that! I love watching documentaries of this stuff! 😂
There’s a Genset on cinder blocks at the yard I work at, It looks like some hooligans stole the fuel tank and trucks 😂. If you want a pic I got it
ADM out of Marshall MN had a pair of them and a MP1500 and all of them were constantly out of service. They were having to borrow locomotives from BNSF to keep production going, they finally replaced all of them with traditional Geeps a couple years back.
I've always thought the Genset concept was a pretty decent one. If we didn't ever strive for innovation they'd all still be running steam! lol. Seriously though I like seeing developments into additional technologies to ensure that the railroads continue to evolve and hopefully become more profitable. Even if those experiments seem to fail more than they succeed. Still a learning experience that keeps leading to some interesting, if wacky designs. Excellent video!
It's funny, when the Tier 1 loco's came out, everyone said it would be the kiss of death for manufacturing locos in the US. It was quite the opposite, demand for more fuel efficient locos exploded around the globe, and the US became the largest exporter of diesel locomotives. I think there are always going to be people who will doubt the validity of developing technologies. There are a lot more "never gonna happen people" in this world then there are people like Musk, Ford, Gates, Jobs, you get the idea.
@@chrisstromberg6527 agreed on all points. I still love me an old analog GP7 in the way I love my 57 Chevy. But time, technology, and requirements march on.
one of the largest issues were the crew complaints. UP even did a test and proved the gensets were just as capable as GP-38 frame units. Crew did not care, all they did was b&tch about them.
@@JPF941Just random complaints? Automation probably made them as easy to run, maybe a little more time to do pre-checks? Or were they just complaining because they didn't want anything to replace their beloved EMD and GE units? Which I get. I love them too.
Great video! This is why Indiana Harbor Belt use their 4 axel Gensets mainly as slugs. Gensets weren't popular with Belt Railway of Chicago operators either. Most of them still prefer the MP15 or SW1500.
Southern Plains Railfan. Bro as always ur vids are so amazing and educational i could say haha.I hope ur day goes well.
Rush to production does not generally end well. I am sure that improvements have made a big improvement on these switchers. If they are good at saving money and run well when not pushed to the limit then we will be seeing them on class 2 roads. I see the Morristown Erie moving around with one to four cars at a time. Seems like they might be perfect for them. I would love a video on how the class two railroads stay in business pushing/pulling one car.
shortlines and regionals make money with lower costs, and sources of revenue the class 1's don't go after anymore. They move more then you are seeing as well.
@@JPF941 I hope the short lines and regionals stay in business. They, Morristown Erie, are the railroads that go to my local railroad events.
Love these cool informative videos! Can you do a video about transporting hazardous materials and nuclear waste?
I'm noticing that some Class-1 railroads are trading off yard switching, branch line, and single customer work for mostly main line, intermodal, manifest, and unit trains. They are releasing this type of services to Class-2, short lines, or the private industries. I see a hidden theme developing here....
They have been doing this for at least 60 years.
@@Hogger280 I know, its just becoming more noticeable recently
""Faster and more efficient"" as a gadgetbahn boondoggle rolls by.
Lmao
This explains a lot. I’ve always wondered what happened to those Gensets. We have 3 on the CCT, all Brookville rebuilds/builds.
Would have never known these existed without your video
1:46 He said " This is exactly how NS 2120 and 2120 work."
I have a soft spot for switcher engines. Great video thanks
I NOTICED THE CATERPILLAR V-8 ENGINE IN ONE OF THE STILL PIX , IS A 3408 WITH 1099 CUBIC INCHES OF DISPLACEMENT!
THIS IS MY FAVORITE BIG TRUCK ENGINE !!
Well you might want to buy a 3GS21B Genset Switcher because most of them use that engine
At 4:11, that UPY 2005 looks almost identical to an ALCO C-415. Cool looking locomotive.
I keep forgetting that Union Pacific Yard Switcher diesel locomotives have UPY reporting marks😂
I remember that I had the idea of a genset in my first year working in the railway. At the time, no one around knew about a similar experience. It's nice to see how bad it performed in real life.
Gensets were the worst Locomotives I ever had when I worked for the Union Pacific
Mrbeast Can also blinds Locomotives! 💀
Lol
I learned something new today. Thank you!
Wonderful train presentation indeed 👍
Greetings from India 🇮🇳
I remember seeing the Gensets in TRAINS Magazine when they first came out. The magazine made 'em sound like they were the next big thing but I thought, "Man, those are ugly. Hope they don't stay around too long."
Preserving one of these is a monument to stupidity.
Love you vids! always watch them before or after school!
Very good video! NS 2120 may yet have a use. I flew my drone into the NS Roanoke Yard the other day and it was idling with other units on the turntable at the shops, leading me to believe it’s used to move power in and out of the shops, rather than just sitting in storage.
Was lucky enough to see the 1205 right before it was preserved. I saw it sitting in Temple Yard back in june 2022 and the video is still on my channel. That was a nice treat to see
Thanks for the very detailed video. Safe to say most Viewers aren’t familiar with these Models so Thanks for shining a light on them. 👍🙏
To me a train engine is a train engine. I don’t know the difference between them.
Interesting stuff! Thanks!
Another amazing video on a great discussion about something all Railfans can all agree on
Love all your videos
Saw them working out of the Saginaw yard in north FTW in the mid 00’s. Controller worked off an ATV. Signs everywhere warning about the unmanned locomotives.
Amazing video friend!!! Greetings from Argentina👋👋👋👋😃
Thank you! Greetings from the USA!
A local short line here in Elkhart, IN, purchased a Genset locomotive earlier this year. It has been cool to see it in action!
Very nice! Would've never knew these existed!
You know, It would be Very interesting But very cool to see Webtec Or EMD create a Large modern Freight locomotive With 2 Big prime movers, with Alot of Bogies But also Find way to Make it where it would consume less diesel fuel.
It won't happen. They tried that with things like the gas turbines and DD40Xs in the 1960s-70s, and the idea was a failure. Rather than building one giant two-engine, multi-bogie locomotive, it's just more efficient to build a pair of one-engine two-bogie locomotives with the same total power. The reason is operational flexibility. If you have two regular locomotives and one of them breaks down, you can keep using the other one. But if you have one giant locomotive and half of it breaks down, the other half is worthless. The current system of having a large pool of ~4000hp locomotives works very well for hauling the kinds of trains that your giant locomotive would be used on.
@@beeble2003 Yep, I had a good feeling that would be the case.
Well in Brazil they purchased surplus North American SD40 and converted them to narrow gauge by extending frame lenght and replacing C C trucks by BB BB. They look really impressive with tiny railcars.
@@danielfantino1714 Yeah, I've heard about those. Especially with the GE ones.
@@DistanceNsVeterans with all the cash they put in them, funny to see them in their former livery: CN, CP, CR, N&W, CSX, NS, UP, BNSF.
With GE in narrow guage it´s just trucks, couplers, draft gear and small frame extension. With DMD it´s all that plus dynamic brake fan removed and put in the long hood and lowered radiator fans .
Purchase price + rate exchange of $ + shipping + new trucks, wheels, traction motors + all the shoo work and cost....
Just wonder if they´re crazy or if we dumped still good horses ?....
Love the narration.
Thanks!
Nice video, but one small point to bring up. The Blue CIT units you showed multiple times, are not gensets. Those are EMD GP20D locomotives. They look similar to a genset, but are actually a conventional loco.
They look ugly💀
Amazing video
Cool and creative video.
Nice
Thanks!
Honestly i love the 3GS21Bs cause they are so unique that i can't help but to love them
Same here and they look better than most of the other Gensets
Well, I'm an ole Toot with old school ways. Now I kinda was ok when we went from Steam to Diesel, but I will not go to battery powered Locomotives.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Thanks as always for sharing info to us.
Take care.
Battery Powered Locomotives are destined to just be Slugs, with Batteries and not concrete.
Maybe not straight batteries, but I see some use for them in a mixed or limited capacity. New York Central had a whole fleet of switchers that could use battery power, charged by a Diesel, as well as third rail. They can supplement existing modes but they’re still nowhere close to being reliable enough for railroad service.
I know a former bnsf engineer that blew 3 generators on one hill.
NS's is sitting around the turn table and is used as a shop switcher whn I worked in Roanoke
Excellent!
Nice video! I believe Railserve (RSSX) makes their own small Gensets. One and two engines.
I was in on building the BNSF green goats in the early 2000's
What did y’all think of them? Did y’all suspect they would be terrible or could y’all see potential in them?
@@Southern_Plains_Railfan I personally. Thought They were a terrible idea stacking all them batteries in there really surprised that they didn't go up in flames. Lost all my tools somebody broke into my service truck at the motel One Night in Fort Worth
@@kurtprue1872omg!
I like the #2120-2121. I think they would be interesting HO Scale models undecorated. They look to be the SW1200-class. BNSF #1212 is a Zombie in pretty colors - yuck! NRE 3GS21B series when idling uses about 3.1 gal of fuel per hour compared to a GP38-2 that uses about 4.2 gallons per hour - there's your savings!
From what I've heard the system that starts and shuts off the engines as they're needed constantly had problems and they would end up only running off of one engine
SEPTA in Pennsylvania has a Genset and a classic switcher type genset
2:03 TESLA ON RAILS
"Eldritch contraptions" you know it's gonna be good!
I'll take an old MP15, please.............
Lol
the ns rp14s were meant to be shop switchers in juniata.
Now thats a true southern gentleman rot they air!
Nice!
Hey, maybe you should check out the Indiana Harbor Belt, they have an old roundhouse like the one in Silvis but instead of right next to the yard, it's part of the yard. I think it's called the Gibson Yard, not exactly sure. but yea they also have something similar to that RP14 thing called the RP15BDF.
5:41 Unborchinetly
Nice video raiway
Thank you!
Interesting, I wouldn’t consider my self a big train guy but I definitely enjoyed watching! I am from Calgary Canada and don’t live too far from the CP yards I didn’t know they did any fabrication work there. Shame their projects ended up being a failure.
Dose Amtrak still use MP14B Genset locomotives or did Amtrak get rid of them too???
Are You Going To Do A Video On The Hydrogen Locomotive?
The NYC,and DL&W had triple powered engines in the 1930's! They were diesel-electric/ battery powered! The NYC class was DEs,and were Alco/GE built! They got 20+ years of operation,and were used on light switching,and some commuter work! History repeats! See the Diesel Spotters Guide for the history! Thank you for your attention! Thank you 😇 😊!
I wonder if it's possible to use a variable cylinder system of some sort on a locomotive. That way you get the durability of a big prime mover with the fuel savings of a genset.
I don’t see why it’s not possible.
The only issues are that large engines might not respond well to such a system, and it would be very expensive to engineer/implement. Still, I think it would be cool to try out!
What is the music that starts playing at 1:00 ?
Take a look at the gen-set rebuilds that Knoxville locomotive works does. Their an interesting locomotive.
They aren’t gensets just “near zero emissions” with a single prime mover. I worked with them for a few years they were pretty good where I was but have heard they are hit or miss
it was so bad to the point that NS switched the rp14bd units, in fact, just all of NS' slugs were mainly replaced with RP-M4c (a Geep rebuild), and i'll say. NS did the best decision in their whole history.
Lobotomized. 😂
Well put.
lol, thanks!
What about Slug locomotives
What state do you live in and if you live in Texas, go to the Texas State Railroad, it’s a treat, they got Santa Fe 4-6-2
So Genset likes to put small diesel engines on a frame. There not the first with that idea.
Baldwin did it in 1943 with a prototype that was intended to produce 6 000 hp in 1943 with 8 diesel engines !!
Well they just try it with 4 and finallly scrapped it in 1944, her gigantic trucks ended up on a Centipede.
That demo numbered 6000 and model was 4-8+8-4-750/8 DE.
It was same principle. 8 skid mounted engine/generator that could be replaced "easily" for maintenance.
Train locomotives blueprints change out at anytime and when you change a frame on them and modify them up into some that there not build for you lose the keep it stock stupid advantages and not having the edge for keeping the freight moving for the customers and some other rail pushers will be happy to keeping the diesel drinking locomotives
they make me think of slugs (not the bug kind)
I think the old British Railways Class 07 might be rather bad from the past.😅😅
Do they ever use switchers for main line?
Yes, local freights are typically pulled by switchers/yard engines. And, some of the customers they service have very short spurs, so the train is forced to be on the mainline when switching cars.
@@Southern_Plains_Railfan I just discovered your TH-cam channel and I find it very interesting. Thank you.
1:49 I find it strange how they have horns but not a real cab I guess train crews can maybe blow the horn with the remote control.
Yes they do, the horn also provides warning if the RCO box is put into emergency
Oh thanks @@doct0rnic
Every one of those gensets I've handled has been junk.
that BNSF one was pretty weird. it looks blind
Having worked with the Green Goat before… yup. They suck. The GenSets we now have in the DC yard aren’t much better.
I like the premise of gen-sets but why do they have to look so ugly?!
They may be good at saving money, but the reliability issues will continue to plague them for years to come; why is this? Because of the engines they have; these engines are not set up for round the clock pounding ouned heavy tonnage conditions. They are only good for light switching jobs that dont require them to be used in heavy freight service! Parts for these greengoats are difficult to replace. Thus making them usless for freight service and, their engines are not designed for 24-7 usage
Virtue signaling bs. I've seen one of those genset types in my area. Once. It disappeared.
1:06 please clean camera!!!
Quite an interesting video! A couple of thoughts: First, these weren't automotive engines -- they were industrial engines based on heavy-truck engines, which absolutely are designed to run at full power for hours on end, and they do that reliably when working as stationary generators. But I suspect the "stationary" part of that might be the key -- as you point out, switch engines get banged around a lot, and that's hard on an engine that's not designed for it.
The other thought is: Since these particular engines were meant to be experiments, are they really "failures" just because they were pulled from service after only a few years? The goal of an experiment is to learn things quickly and cheaply that can be used to make the next generation better, and so you wouldn't expect an experimental locomotive to be around for a long time. Even if it works well, as soon as they've learned what they can from it, it's going to be obsolete. And then of course there's the argument that an experiment that says "this isn't a good idea" is still a successful experiment because they learned something useful from it!
Good grief what awful looking locomotives.
With that much of a headache, makes you wonder why they don't bite the bullet and put up catenary lines...
Mannn railroads keep wasting money tryna reinvent the wheel lol! If it aint broke dont fix it.....just maintain it or it will break like all the shit out here is doing currently lol.
i don't like gensets
OR RC's which are less safe and less efficient as to amount of cars switched.
junksets...
Pretty much, lol
silly ahh
Hi
Those are the ugliest locomotives ever
1st
First
Well yeah the hydrogen fueled locomotive got laid up soon after it was built.
You might ask "Why, when Hydrogen is supposed to be the Fuel of the Future?"
Well, it's ultimately down to chemistry and physics.
See, hydrogen's some really lightweight stuff. Lighter than air in fact, that's why the Hindenburg used it as lifting gas.
But that has bad implications for using it as a fuel. Hydrogen is incredibly low density, even when stored compressed or liquefied.
Rockets that use hydrogen as a fuel (like NASA's SLS, and the Space Shuttle before it), needed GIGANTIC fuel tanks just to carry all that hydrogen that they used, simply because of hydrogen's low density.
Take the Space Shuttle's external tank (the big orange part).
The liquid oxygen is stored pretty much ONLY in the nosecone of that giant thing.
The rest of the whole thing is filled with liquid hydrogen. Now I'll give you 3 guesses as to which part of the propellants weighs more when the ET is full, the liquid hydrogen fuel or the liquid oxygen oxidizer. If you guessed the liquid oxygen, you're correct.
That means that the smaller of the two propellant tanks in the ET assembly carries the majority of the mass, which your gut feeling is probably gonna tell you is all kinds of wrong. But if you do the math out on it, using the density of liquid oxygen and the density of liquid hydrogen, combined with the volume of each of those propellant tanks, and you multiply the density with the volume for the same stuff, you'll get a mass. And you'll see that the liquid oxygen weighs more than the liquid hydrogen.
That's how very low density hydrogen is. It's hard to grasp it in my head if I don't walk myself thru that little explanation I did right there every time I think about it.
Now what does this mean for using hydrogen as a vehicle fuel? Well, it means you need a ginormous fuel tank to have any semblance of a good operational range.
People get hung up on hydrogen's "energy per pound" but forget about "energy per gallon" If you use metric like I do, you're instead thinking in "energy per kilogram" and "energy per liter".
Hydrogen is used in rockets because with rockets, it's the kilograms or pounds that count. With ground vehicles, it's the gallons that count, so hydrogen is in fact NOT the fuel of the future for them.
For ground vehicles, METHANOL is the fuel of the future. Why is this? Methanol can be extracted from any source of cellulose bearing matter (paper, wood, corn stalks, leaves, bark, untreated mulch, cardboard, etc. basically the parts of a plant that people can't eat) simply by adding heat and only letting a measured amount of oxygen in to react with the cellulose, and then distilling the gaseous products that are released.
This process is called "pyrolysis", and some German vehicles during WWII were converted to run on methanol vapors instead of gasoline because the Allies cut off most of Germany's oil supply during the war, so people had to find other ways to get their vehicles moving.
Now this isn't as efficient as using bacteria to make methanol, but that method requires the sugary/starchy parts of the plant, aka the stuff that we already want to turn into food (same reason ethanol biofuel never really took off in the US despite a big push to make most cars in the US able to run on E85 in the mid-2000s).
The point is, it doesn't have to cut into our food supply like ethanol fuel does, instead it can use the parts of the plant that are usually discarded, as well as the material that is usually burned off when clearing land to farm on.
Oh and there's another interesting thing about Methanol. You know how people have been saying fuel cells are the way of the future? We've figured out a way to make a fuel cell run on Methanol. So all that is needed to convert a Hydrogen vehicle over to Methanol is to change out the fuel cell pack, the rest can stay mostly the same.
Internal combustion engine vehicles need fuel system adjustments to account for the fact that methanol is highly hygroscopic and likes to cause corrosion, so lots more use of plastics to handle the stuff is likely the solution there. But dragsters and race cars and F-1 cars have been using methanol fuel for a long time, so that technology SHOULD be well understood.
And since methanol isn't used for a lot of other things, it SHOULD be pretty cheap too!
what did that one loco #54 only have BN on it?
also Juanita is pronounced wawn-ee-ta, bozo! cause is a SPANISH name!
No problem with this but at 1:45 you say the number 2120 twice
I'm wondering if there are two 2120's and I'm just launching because I heard the same thing twice or It was just a mistake either way
I got confused