Expectation: GNB + WAR Reality: PLD + DRK Which I think is totally fine, it's healthy for the game to have a Tank meta that plays around their full toolkit, it's extremely dull when only one or two jobs are dominating, I think all 4 tanks feel great to play, and it's great that all of them are viable. Unlike Casters where you play PCT or nothing.
I don't think P4 explains PLD honestly, especially in the one phase that's always "either you did the last mech right or you enrage from too many DDs" which PLD damage isn't gonna save. PLD has always been a strong choice for race groups because a smart player can recover mistakes with clem/cover/passage. Outside of race groups then, I think it's just become more accepted that tanks within hardcore (month 1) groups should be expected to be able to omni tank for prog. A lot of people I know started WAR/DRK expecting to be able to get more value out of invuls with the comp only to then realize that keeping up Surging Tempest is a huge pain in p1-p2. At that point, race groups had shown that not only were there basically no tank busters this Ultimate (making invuls kinda useless) and virtually no autos to deal with (making most of WAR's kit that usually is fantastic for being MT kinda moot).
Also wanted to mention I've played all four in FRU up until at least CT and cleared on two of them. DRK's ability to pool resources shines here more than any other ultimate with how many phases are HP thresholds instead of just kills. A good DRK can see that it's already dead and decide to hold 6k mp, 100 blood, and a shadowbringer into the next phase to make that check then even easier. Delirium can be precasted insanely early, and if you know those timings then you can get a whole extra use in the fight meaning you never really feel the downtime compared to other jobs. DRK is also the best buff feeder in the role, so for a fight that really likes 2m raid buffs DRK does even better than before. PLD on the other hand is just the one out of the three remaining jobs that gets hurt the least from the huge downtime problems. It doesn't have to struggle to early IR like WAR or overcap carts like GNB while bringing in really useful utility into the fight. PLD's range is also honestly insane for the intermission. If you can get your team to nuke the PLD's light crystal, they're able to confit combo any of the remaining ones killing all of them super fast. Early crystal kills make intermission free af and potless which is huge.
I agree that WAR's low cd invuln is kinda useless in this fight which lessens their value. I was gonna put that aspect too in the vid, but seems to miss it in the recording. Thanks for bringing this up
5:47 Is it me, or is the math there wrong? For example, Confiteor does 1k potency, but you have it listed as 2k potency already, and then have it say that the cleave makes it do 50% less damage... Which somehow brings the potency up to 3000 instead of making it 1500 potency which it should be. Also Circle of Scorn and Blade of Honour aren't included even though they also do AoE or cleave damage respectively. The point you make is valid despite this, since the errors are fairly consistent, but this bothered me a bit so I had to say something. Was this done to account for raid buffs or was this just a mistake?
it's calculated per 2 mins to make it even with 2 min skills like shb & lionheart, so it's x2 since confiteor is a 1 min skill. 3k is the total, since 2k + ( 2k * 50%). but you're right that i forgot to include cos & boh. my bad.
Thats a very interesting outlook, haven't gotten that far progging in PF, but thats awesome knowing that the cleave will work there lol. I think a large playerbase is also locked based on what class people geared from savage ofc since its on-content ultimate. Else I would've been flexing all tanks
I feel like the section on world progging groups is a bit misguided. (Im assuming here with "top 50 teams" you meant top 50 progression since you pictured Lucrezia in the video) World Prog groups do not pick jobs solely based on the highest damage output. Moreso on the contrary. In Dawntrail everyone knew that the dps checks wouldn't matter much, it's just following trends. In reality people pick jobs based on their prog value into a raid. PLD is almost always chosen in raid comps, as they bring Clemency, Passage and Cover, which are all hugely effective utility tools that other tanks simply dont have. The reason why PLD wasn't used in Endwalker can moreso be attributed to a lack of comfort on the jobs and the fact that DPS was most definitely still relevant and other jobs were heavily outweighing PLD in dps. Dawntrail changes things. PLD is no longer a dps slug, and actually hits quite hard, so suddenly theres no "higher dps tank" to bring anymore. DRK is insanely good due to the amount of single target cover it can provide to members in the party. You have 2 stacks of Oblation and the ever powerful TBN to save healers from death on raidwide damage. Top 50 groups who are quick at reacting to save their healers can more easily slug into further mechanics, even in ultimate phases. Also, DRK was buffed in damage in last patch, which signified that DRK, which was already a strong dps job (the public lies), was going to be even stronger, making it even more worth to bring along. Lastly, comfort is key, and those who don't run Paladin this ultimate are running something else due to comfort. Playing PLD at a world prog level actually requires levels of skill and especially experience, and most people who don't bring a Paladin simply don't feel confident to do so, prompting them to (understandably) go to another tank job.
Hi Caro, thanks for the great insight. Yes the whole statistic in this video is based on the top 50 prog teams, and I understand fully that damage is not the only consideration, that's why I mentioned how PLD is an easy pick since they bring a lot of damage on top of having extra mitigations & such. Prog value & comfort is definitely key and also why I address that at the end of the video.
You missed an important detail that top end groups consider. you only compared the rdps, but top end groups will typically run a high party buff roster, which means you also want to look at how the tank burst window works. dark knight especially has a massive burst window which works really well with party buff comps, but doesn't translate to rdps. You also made no mention of passage of arms, which for a blind ultimate (as happened with the first groups) is something you would expect to be extremely useful. as it turns out, last phase had surprisingly little incoming party damage, but that's something we can only look at in hindsight.
As a DRK main I want to point out there's more than just that, ignoring TBN, Oblation and Dark Mind all having unique benefits, you have stuff like being able to put down Living Shadow and Delirium ~7s before the boss is targetable, even if you've lost Darkside to downtime, while WAR is forced to do their combo to regain Surging Tempest if more than 30s is needed, and suddenly WAR has is 15s behind. You gain a whole use of Delirium from it at the start of p2 if you kill p1 slow.
I like the quote that FRU isn't an Ultimate unless you don't have a PCT in your party XD, you really feel it when P1 enrages with 0.2% left even though your team played almost perfectly (have VPR as well as one of our melee which I heard is pretty struggle bus in Ultimate so far). Progging on DRK cause it's my fave job in the game, in a "semi-midcore" static raiding 3 times a week for 3 hours, with our prog point of P2 Mirror Mirror. I have to say figuring out DRK optimization has been really fun both in terms of opener/rotation and mit as FRU is probably the first Ultimate I will clear (have gotten to Mario Kart in TEA and P3 Enrage of DSR), so I haven't had a lot of overall experience with Ultimates and even less as my main role of tank (only did the first phase of TEA as PLD in the last 2 weeks of ShB, progged DSR on DNC until static disbanded). But yeah, it's fun, hoping to clear before 7.2 with the static but will go into PF if it doesn't seem like that will happen. I would like to see how GNB optimizes in FRU as DT first tier was my first time maining GNB with my new static and learning how to optimize rotation, as my main co-tank at the time in ShB and EW was a GNB main.But yeah, looking to clear Soon™and have fun while doing it XD.
@@KainsAddiction are you week 1 clear? Last time I remembered meta mattering was in week 1 for p5-8s with the tank imbalance. Obviously picto is broken right now so casters can feel some type of way
![What makes Ultimate, Savage, Extreme different? [FFXIV High End Raiding]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/g3hg9AZL4Ew/mqdefault.jpg)
![What makes Ultimate, Savage, Extreme different? [FFXIV High End Raiding]](/img/tr.png)
finally... PALADIN MAINS WE RISE!
Ahh Woo Ahh Woo!!
Expectation: GNB + WAR
Reality: PLD + DRK
Which I think is totally fine, it's healthy for the game to have a Tank meta that plays around their full toolkit, it's extremely dull when only one or two jobs are dominating, I think all 4 tanks feel great to play, and it's great that all of them are viable. Unlike Casters where you play PCT or nothing.
real. but we did find rdm still pretty useful in fru. I kinda like the fact that double caster is viable now, but picto is definitely too strong
I don't think P4 explains PLD honestly, especially in the one phase that's always "either you did the last mech right or you enrage from too many DDs" which PLD damage isn't gonna save. PLD has always been a strong choice for race groups because a smart player can recover mistakes with clem/cover/passage.
Outside of race groups then, I think it's just become more accepted that tanks within hardcore (month 1) groups should be expected to be able to omni tank for prog. A lot of people I know started WAR/DRK expecting to be able to get more value out of invuls with the comp only to then realize that keeping up Surging Tempest is a huge pain in p1-p2. At that point, race groups had shown that not only were there basically no tank busters this Ultimate (making invuls kinda useless) and virtually no autos to deal with (making most of WAR's kit that usually is fantastic for being MT kinda moot).
Also wanted to mention I've played all four in FRU up until at least CT and cleared on two of them. DRK's ability to pool resources shines here more than any other ultimate with how many phases are HP thresholds instead of just kills. A good DRK can see that it's already dead and decide to hold 6k mp, 100 blood, and a shadowbringer into the next phase to make that check then even easier. Delirium can be precasted insanely early, and if you know those timings then you can get a whole extra use in the fight meaning you never really feel the downtime compared to other jobs. DRK is also the best buff feeder in the role, so for a fight that really likes 2m raid buffs DRK does even better than before.
PLD on the other hand is just the one out of the three remaining jobs that gets hurt the least from the huge downtime problems. It doesn't have to struggle to early IR like WAR or overcap carts like GNB while bringing in really useful utility into the fight. PLD's range is also honestly insane for the intermission. If you can get your team to nuke the PLD's light crystal, they're able to confit combo any of the remaining ones killing all of them super fast. Early crystal kills make intermission free af and potless which is huge.
I agree that WAR's low cd invuln is kinda useless in this fight which lessens their value. I was gonna put that aspect too in the vid, but seems to miss it in the recording. Thanks for bringing this up
5:47 Is it me, or is the math there wrong?
For example, Confiteor does 1k potency, but you have it listed as 2k potency already, and then have it say that the cleave makes it do 50% less damage... Which somehow brings the potency up to 3000 instead of making it 1500 potency which it should be. Also Circle of Scorn and Blade of Honour aren't included even though they also do AoE or cleave damage respectively.
The point you make is valid despite this, since the errors are fairly consistent, but this bothered me a bit so I had to say something. Was this done to account for raid buffs or was this just a mistake?
it's calculated per 2 mins to make it even with 2 min skills like shb & lionheart, so it's x2 since confiteor is a 1 min skill. 3k is the total, since 2k + ( 2k * 50%). but you're right that i forgot to include cos & boh. my bad.
@@aylaveen Oh, I see, that makes more sense. Thank you for explaining.
@@aylaveen The tables are incorrect for DRK and GNB. DRK doesn’t include Living Shadow’s cleave and GNB doesn’t include bow shock.
Thats a very interesting outlook, haven't gotten that far progging in PF, but thats awesome knowing that the cleave will work there lol. I think a large playerbase is also locked based on what class people geared from savage ofc since its on-content ultimate. Else I would've been flexing all tanks
THEY CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT! Thank you so much for exposing this meta gov't.
I feel like the section on world progging groups is a bit misguided. (Im assuming here with "top 50 teams" you meant top 50 progression since you pictured Lucrezia in the video)
World Prog groups do not pick jobs solely based on the highest damage output. Moreso on the contrary.
In Dawntrail everyone knew that the dps checks wouldn't matter much, it's just following trends. In reality people pick jobs based on their prog value into a raid.
PLD is almost always chosen in raid comps, as they bring Clemency, Passage and Cover, which are all hugely effective utility tools that other tanks simply dont have.
The reason why PLD wasn't used in Endwalker can moreso be attributed to a lack of comfort on the jobs and the fact that DPS was most definitely still relevant and other jobs were heavily outweighing PLD in dps.
Dawntrail changes things. PLD is no longer a dps slug, and actually hits quite hard, so suddenly theres no "higher dps tank" to bring anymore.
DRK is insanely good due to the amount of single target cover it can provide to members in the party. You have 2 stacks of Oblation and the ever powerful TBN to save healers from death on raidwide damage. Top 50 groups who are quick at reacting to save their healers can more easily slug into further mechanics, even in ultimate phases. Also, DRK was buffed in damage in last patch, which signified that DRK, which was already a strong dps job (the public lies), was going to be even stronger, making it even more worth to bring along.
Lastly, comfort is key, and those who don't run Paladin this ultimate are running something else due to comfort. Playing PLD at a world prog level actually requires levels of skill and especially experience, and most people who don't bring a Paladin simply don't feel confident to do so, prompting them to (understandably) go to another tank job.
Hi Caro, thanks for the great insight.
Yes the whole statistic in this video is based on the top 50 prog teams, and I understand fully that damage is not the only consideration, that's why I mentioned how PLD is an easy pick since they bring a lot of damage on top of having extra mitigations & such. Prog value & comfort is definitely key and also why I address that at the end of the video.
DRK AoE is a gain on 3 now above level 96 :)
mp & gauge
You missed an important detail that top end groups consider. you only compared the rdps, but top end groups will typically run a high party buff roster, which means you also want to look at how the tank burst window works. dark knight especially has a massive burst window which works really well with party buff comps, but doesn't translate to rdps.
You also made no mention of passage of arms, which for a blind ultimate (as happened with the first groups) is something you would expect to be extremely useful. as it turns out, last phase had surprisingly little incoming party damage, but that's something we can only look at in hindsight.
@6:50 PoA mentioned.
@@x53k5hun8x Your right, it was such a quick mention that I managed to miss it in my first watch through!
As a DRK main I want to point out there's more than just that, ignoring TBN, Oblation and Dark Mind all having unique benefits, you have stuff like being able to put down Living Shadow and Delirium ~7s before the boss is targetable, even if you've lost Darkside to downtime, while WAR is forced to do their combo to regain Surging Tempest if more than 30s is needed, and suddenly WAR has is 15s behind. You gain a whole use of Delirium from it at the start of p2 if you kill p1 slow.
fair point, performance under raid buff is definitely a consideration
Plz lower music volume and increase mic volume, very hard to hear what you're saying man
@@firefangz okay mb
I like the quote that FRU isn't an Ultimate unless you don't have a PCT in your party XD, you really feel it when P1 enrages with 0.2% left even though your team played almost perfectly (have VPR as well as one of our melee which I heard is pretty struggle bus in Ultimate so far).
Progging on DRK cause it's my fave job in the game, in a "semi-midcore" static raiding 3 times a week for 3 hours, with our prog point of P2 Mirror Mirror. I have to say figuring out DRK optimization has been really fun both in terms of opener/rotation and mit as FRU is probably the first Ultimate I will clear (have gotten to Mario Kart in TEA and P3 Enrage of DSR), so I haven't had a lot of overall experience with Ultimates and even less as my main role of tank (only did the first phase of TEA as PLD in the last 2 weeks of ShB, progged DSR on DNC until static disbanded). But yeah, it's fun, hoping to clear before 7.2 with the static but will go into PF if it doesn't seem like that will happen.
I would like to see how GNB optimizes in FRU as DT first tier was my first time maining GNB with my new static and learning how to optimize rotation, as my main co-tank at the time in ShB and EW was a GNB main.But yeah, looking to clear Soon™and have fun while doing it XD.
Paladin squad rise up !
*laughs in drk* how the tables have turned :D
ill always downvote "meta" videos for ffxiv. You're the problem.
ok
Bruh legit came in to complain about meta in a meta video 😅 Toxic bruh
Huh???? Outside of picto where are you encountering this meta problem?
@@ChaoticCreedYou obviously havent played 14 very long
@@KainsAddiction are you week 1 clear? Last time I remembered meta mattering was in week 1 for p5-8s with the tank imbalance. Obviously picto is broken right now so casters can feel some type of way