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As someone who's lived in East Lothian my whole life, I've been up Traprain law multiple times but never knew the history so that was very interesting to learn. Great video
I've just lucked in to your channel. Your account of Lothian was by far the clearest, best presented, most authoritative and most evocative of any of the videos of the 6th to 11th centuries CE in Scotland and North England I've watched. Your balance of legend and such few written accounts as exist was just right and your evident relish for the legends plain. Hugely enjoyable. My thanks.
Love this. I'm from West Lothian! These stories have been part of me my whole life! The votadina and the legend of King Athur, and the birth of Wales. Epic stuff!! Dont forget Cairnpapple in the Bathgate hills, and its links to the Goddodin triangle. LOTHIAN: LAND OF THE GODS😊👌
I, an ardent fan of LOTR who (apparently) isn't able to read, came for Lothlórien - and stayed for a pretty interesting documentary about Loth of Lothian. Well played, Miss. Weeeell played...
Good to have the local seal of approval! (Not always an easy thing to get.) I used to spend a lot of time in East Lothian. It's very close to my heart.
Thanks for this we live near Luggate and knew something of the history having visited all the historic places mentioned and noticed the names or some older properties like Dunpender house. This brings it all together
I've been to Traprain Law. I've managed to get most of the way up. I am determined to get to the summit, so I will be back. I saw the Roman Silver Hoard. It is housed in the National Museum of Scotland.
I scrambled up the hard way a few years ago and it was exhausting. It is steeper than it looks from the bottom. At the top, there was a herd of wild ponies. Very memorable and a special place.
@AScottishOdyssey I came down the easy way. I wouldn't recommend the sheer face I took, by the lay-by. I regretted it before I was half way up, but a climb down seemed worse so I was forced to go on! Enjoy your visit.
Very educational. This is a video to watch again as a companion to any book on Arthur, Geoffrey, Saxons in the north, etc. I wish I had this video when I read Lawhead's Arthurian trilogy. Thank you 💡
Swine herding also plays a big role in the Fourth Branch story, Gwydion stealing Pryderi's otherworldly pigs, so it's interesting that the killing spear thrown after an accusation of infidelity is placed into the hands of a swine herd in this story. You can almost see an evolutionary chart of how a story changes throughout hundreds of years of aural retellings and over hundreds of miles. I suspect early kings were very keen to have their bards incorporate their names or their father's names into such myths, an early example of the divine right of kings concept perhaps?
A video on the mysterious women who gave men claim to kingship would be great. If there is any information on them. I enjoyed this video very much. Thank you.
Livia (lydia) Tiberius mother was selling ceasars purple, the whore of babylon drunken with the blood of the saints (germanicus heirs) sought to replace Drusus (the heir rightfully appointed by Octavian augustus himself). In the end Tiberius who ended up with no heirs was succeeded by Gaius JC (caligula).
@@KrisHughes Haha I get it! I’d struggle to put together a 2 minute video on a single topic, nevermind actually get folks to watch it lol I’ll be continuing to watch through your videos, you’ve got some great content! I wish I’d found your channel sooner lol
Many years ago I used to practice rock climbing on Traprain Law. I was aware it once was some kind of settlement but that was the extent of my knowledge. This is interesting.
Excellent video, thank you. I live in Bathgate or in auld Scots 'bat-ket' in West Lothian, and its always fun to learn about where you are from. Quick fact, Leu was an old lightning god, like thor here. Im guessing my lothian was named for him.
Been in Bathgate many a time. I don't think we can say that Lleu was a "lightning god" and call it a fact, though. Theory, possibly. They say that Bathgate comes from Baedd Coed (wood of the boar).
I grew up in Perthshire and Glen Lyon is associated with the Fianna and has the Testing Stone Of The Fianna. The Fianna possibly protected the Pictish kingdom from invaders -The Scots of Dal Riata
The Fianna are from Scottish legend which they brought with them from Ireland. I'm not familiar with the Scottish versions of the tales of Finn MacCool but I understand many have been adapted to suit Scottish locations but Finn and his Fianna are ultimately from Dal Riata. Did the Picts have something similar to the Fianna in their mythology? Maybe. There was an Irish god called Nechtan, husband of Boann who was the goddess of the river Boyne and where the river got its name. Nechtan was associated with a magical spring that was the source of the river Boyne. Nechtan also appears as a name amongst the Picts. The famous battle in which the Picts defeated the Anglo-Saxons and stopped their advance north of the Forth took place at Nechtansmere, Dun Nechtain. Likewise the King of Ulster in the Ulster Cycle is Conchobar mac Nessa. Nessa is a goddess and appears in a Scottish tale about the naming of the river Ness and its lake. It's unlikely the Irish were responsible for this story given the area remained Pictish long after the Scots of Dal Riada had become Christian so it's an example of common mythology.
@damionkeeling3103 It is entirely possible the legends from Scots and Pictish mythologies were merged. Glen Lyon may well a key location in the Caledonians resistance to the Romans who invaded Scotland several times through Southern Perthshire building glen blocking forts along the Highland Fault Line: Bochastle, Dalginross and Fendoch for example and several camps at Ardoch and Inchtuthill. It's barely 20 miles as the crow flies from Dalginross to Glen Lyon.
@@Wee_Langside Back then stories must've got mixed up as isolated settlements heard stories from different sources and blended them over time while adapting some to include local people and places.
Excellent segment! What is the painting at 16:57? Was it originally inspired by the Ossianic tales? I've visited the Borders three times. I regret not visiting Traprain Law, which I've been aware of for over 35 years. You've certainly given the site MUCH more historical weight than I'd given it.
Catterick, cat / cath means place of battle site, then Ettrick. This is Ettrick castle near Douglas Lanarkshire. Meters away is Andershaw where YGododin was killed. Also meters away is Glentaggart (glen of the priest) which was the first battle of Arthur according to Ninius. Nearby is the remaining places of battles 2, 3 and 4 in the Douglas Village valley. Ladyknow, Castle dangerous (albeit the original fort before the medieval castle was built) and Bonn castle. All above are located on the old roman road network. It is likely YGododin supported Hael king of Strathclyde against the person we know today as Arthur who gets his name from a placename Aith (bear) and Kar meaning fort. Again Aithkar is a few miles away. Arthur's roman name was Coroticus which christian's made a joke about calling Arthur Cora meaning the maiden. Loth is likely to be a corruption of saint Maelok which was shortened to Lok / Log and Lot. Saint Gildas was the brother of Saint Michael (Hael), Saint Maelok, and the sons of saint Caw/Caddow. As Christianity spread from Strathclyde in the mid 4th century into the mid 6th century the legioned of Lot/Lok/Log and his magic spear (Spear of destiny) spread north.
@@KrisHughes to me the obvious thing would be to retreat there in the event of a threat. All around there is lovely gentle fertile farm land with sheltered rivers and wooded areas much more hospitable. I mean the day I was there it was fine until you were on top of the hill!!
@@angusarmstrong6526 Yes, I know! And I'm sure there were people living in the valleys who would come into the fort when there was danger. But remember they also had ramparts. Stone and/or wood and houses.
@@KrisHughes I’m not sure it has a name but the wood were the settlement is situated is called Camp wood which is on the top of the hill it’s about 8 miles south of Edinburgh near Mayfield
@@KrisHughes Its a settlement in Camp Wood, and nearby to the aptly named Chesters Wood, in Mayfield, Dalkeith, Midlothian. Shown on Ordinance Survey map at reference 55.863150, -3.025146
Think I've previously mentioned in your comments the link between Nudd Hael and Lludd Llaw Ereint created by the name "Nudd Llaw Hael" found in a variant of triad 71. His seat of power isn't recorded as far as I'm aware, but the Dyfnwal dynasty seems to be broadly centred around the central lowlands, where as the Coiling seems to be further south near the current border. This may make him a better candidate for Lot...? If I'm correct about Lludd Llaw Ereint, Nudd Hael and Lot of Lothian being the same, then his son Gwyn suddenly starts to look a lot like Gawain of (French) Arthuriana. If Lot is a conflation of Lleu and Lludd, then Gawain could be a conflation of Gwalchmei and Gwyn...?
Nudd Hael is also mentioned in one of the (historical) Taliesin poems - but there's no hand in his name that time. In legend, Lludd Llaw Ereint is usually associated with the far south of England, incl. London. I would say we should assume he's related to the Nuada Airgetlam/Nodens complex of deities, rather than see him as a historical character.
@@KrisHughes Ow, which poem is that? It's been a while since I read them and have evidently forgotten that one. The triad mentioned is the only time I'm aware of Nudd Hael including Llaw in the middle. I know Geoffrey of M has a King Lud in South England / London, but I'm sceptical of any connection to Lludd L E. Is there anything else to place him there?
@@jamescarruthers1967 The ref. to Nudd Hael is toward the end of Yspeil Taliesin. At the beginning of Lludd a Llyfellys it states that Lludd "rebuilt the walls of London".
@@KrisHughes sorry, busy few days... I think Lludd and Llefelys is derivative of Geoffrey's Lud and I don't think that Lludd is ever given the epithet "Llaw Ereint". Pretty sure the epithet only occurs in Culhwch ac Olwen, where the story of Creiddylad seems to have a more northern origin.
Great piece, lots to chew on. The name Leudonis, is it not more likely to have been pronounced "Looth-onis" (much like Clyd/Clydd, the river of Loth) rather than "Lay-uh-donis"?
"Leudonis" is from a text written in Latin, where the proper name are Latinized, which was normal for the period. It's not clear what the native language of the scribe was.
Just rewatched and have another question... At 10:46 you refer to Geoffrey taking characters from the Old North and including them like satellites around Arthur, while you have a graphic of various names orbiting Geoffrey's statue. Most of the names have a clear link to Old N, but you also have Morgan, Modred and Uther... What's the link for them? Or am I reading too much into the graphic? 😅 (I suppose Morgan and Modred as Urien's wife and Lot's son respectively have a link, but those links don't survive from any source pre Geoffrey)
You're reading too much in. Perhaps not my best graphic ever! Only some of them have a link, although Modron appears to be the inspiration for Morgan la Fay. More on that here: th-cam.com/video/0E_ShNyGskc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7gehzh0KFMoOoxCu
Is it me, or Southern Britain and the Midlands are not as magical as Wales, Cornwall and the regions of the Hen Ogledd? Everytime we hear about kings, kingdoms and stories of Wales and the Old North, it's like learning from a fantasy book. I love this.
I would say the entirety of the UK is equally magical as any other and is not dependent on the culture of the region from that moment in time ,we have perennial myths which give a slewed history simply because of their survival over other stories from other ancient peoples😊
no its you this video is skewd as lothian like strathclyde went way down our east cost these have connetion to the brythonic welsh click f kin bait and nothing factual your not even scottish
clackmannan you ref idiot us the stone of mannan mac ler its were he had one of his houses catterick your f k in wrong again catterick was the site of an ancient town and marne is an ancienent battle site and were called scots after the tribe of the scoti an irish clan
You know, I wouldn't completely rule out that king was buried next to the stone in Saxon times, there are a lot of Saxon graves in and around bronze age graves in England so there might very well have happened here too as long as it was in pagan times. Christians did not do that. If that happened he would have been buried with some expensive grave goods but those could have been plundered a long time ago. But it is likelier that people just assumed the stone was connected to the hillfort and it eventually turned into a myth about the founder of Lothia being buried there. It is a shame Nennius doesn't mention him, we don't really know how much Y Gododdin have changed to when it was written down so it is kinda hard to say if Lot was a real person or not. Another possibility is that the name was older and that people did call one or several kings that named after the country he/they ruled. That would explain why he was both connected with Arthur's time around 500 CE and St Kentigern a century later or so (even though I don't think Arthur existed). Or of course that Geoftrey just made it up like he did with the "king of Colchester". Unless some new evidence shows up, , I don't think we will ever find out which is the truth. Sometimes a nation or a place have been named after a ruler so it is certainly plausible he existed, but it is probably more likely he was just made up.
There are no clear historical records for this, and a lot of different theories floated by various scholars. It probably continued the longest in Strathclyde and adjoining parts of Cumbria. It was certainly around in the 7th century, some would argue that it wasn't completely dead until the 10th or 11th century.
The last King of Strathclyde to bear an undoubtedly Welsh name was Owain Foel (Owain the Bald) and he regined until the mid 11th century. Whether that meant all his courtiers and the general populace were Welsh speaking at that time is up for debate.
Great video. Well researched and thoroughly enjoyable. From your research the graphemics of the name Lothian would appear be Loth + ian = Lot + ian. To quote Wikipedia (simply the easiest reference) the suffix "from Latin ianus, in which the -i originally was from the stem of the word being attached but later came to be felt as connective. In Middle English frequently it was -ien, via French." The base root, -an = "word-forming element meaning "pertaining to," from Latin -anus, adjective suffix, in some cases via French -ain, -en. From PIE *-no-." Thus, Lothian means "Pertaining to Lot" or "Belonging to Lot". Just one point, the Goddidin were not all warriors of that country. The poem describes how the king Mynyddog Mwynfawr gathered fighting men from around the Celtic lands, including Wales and Pictland. They went on a binge for one year in Dun Edin before setting out and, with the exception of Aneirin (A Welshman? The poem is preserved in Welsh literature), all being killed. The are the equivalent of Irish fían-bands; "Gangs of roving, aristocratic youths without fixed dwellings - were a social institution… early Christian Ireland… dubbed its members ‘sons of death’... combustible young men… who had reached physical maturity but had not yet inherited the land and property upon which masculine social identity was founded". (Williams, M. (2021) Ireland’s Immortals. A history of the gods of Irish myth. Princeton & Oxford. PUP). Dun Edin, Aberlady, Dunbar, Mannaw are all Pictish. The language is Pictish. These names demonstrate the linguistic characteristic pattern of the Pictish language. I'll be publishing this research soon on the net.
Thanks for your comments! It doesn't really work to parse "Lothian" as if it's in its original form. It's an anglicisation of the Brythonic form - or possibly an anglicisation of the Latinisation of the Brythonic form! I think we need to differentiate between The Gododdin and "the men who went to Catraeth". Not all the men who went to Catraeth were necessarily Gododdin. It's a long slog through genealogies and other references to attempt to identify the different individuals (and thankfully not my job!). Ben Guy gave a great seminar on this a few years ago. Available here: th-cam.com/video/WJQ8i4KPXQw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=hEN6not3BQRv0K_T "They went on a binge" is a pretty rough and ready way of describing the ritual mead feast, and was a popular interpretation of Y Gododdin in the early 20th century. People formed a picture of a bunch of drunken rabble riding off to Catraeth like fools. However, a mead feast was at least as much solemn ritual as piss-up. Why this one is described as lasting a year is one of the many enigmas of the story. I'm not sure that M Williams is the best source for understanding the fianna, or that they are necessarily analogous to the 'spears for hire' who went to Catraeth. A better, and more historically accurate description of the fianna can be found in 'Tales of the Elders of Ireland' Roe & Dooley (1999) pp xi -xiv I don't think Welsh scholars would describe Aneirin as "a Welshman". The concept of Wales didn't exist in the 7th century, and Aneirin is believed to have lived in Yr Hen Ogledd. The most archaic text in the Book of Aneirin is in a very early form of what would later be called the Welsh language. See Koch's comments on this in The Celtic Heroic Age or his 'The Gododdin'.
Latin for lake is Lugo, likely to be the source for the semi legion of lady of the lake. saint Maelok / Mealog was often referred to as Log / Lauch etc.
Was Loth actually Lok / Lot? This was a common abbreviation used for this son of Caw (Caddow) king of Strathclyde who's full name was Saint Maelok. St. Maelok was called, Lok, Lot, Log (Maelog), Loch, Lauch and Malo. If he was then he has was a prince of Strathclyde in the 6th century who lived in Lugo in Spain and attended the second Council of Braga 572ade. Maelok predates saint Kentigern by 20 years or so at a maximum.
As pointed out, Gododdin is unrelated to Odin, dd is pronounced more like th in Welsh. But it is speculated by some that Lugus, or Lleu, the god mentioned in this video is in fact the Celtic version of Odin, or to be more precise; Odin and Lugus are both variants of a much older god. I reiterate this is speculation though.
There is an old Irish personal name Fothad, which has a general meaning of foundation. It's possibly a cognate of votad(ini) or rather Gododd(in). The tribal name might refer to being to being a founding or foundation people. The spelling in Old Welsh was Guotodin.
😮😅😅nather travis wrote a very good book on the subject of the daughter of Loth called.. the mist.inhis series of bookonhistory.❤❤2😂😂😂😂 And he mentions KING ARthur and prince orien. He also mentions St kentigern in Glasgow .
Yeah, it really is! Making these videos sometimes feels like tongue-twister boot camp! After I uploaded it, noticed that it sounds like I said Lleudiniawn rather that Lleuddiniawn a couple of times - even though I know better.
@@tomdickson3225 I have a lot of videos about the Old North (like this one). That includes the Borders, but yeah - I'm not focused on "Scottish regions" or anything like that.
Which battle of Reith did you mean? Because the one we know about took place close to Kirkcaldy in Fife. Is that another battle? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Raith
I think the video is asking the wrong question. 'Lothian' was surely 'Sloth Ian' - over time the 'S' went missing. The real question should be - Who was Ian?
Interesting channel :) I have for the last ten to twelve years toyed with the idea that women probably were the first serious horse riders, since the early riding horses were so small until they got bred bigger. So the stories of the riding Amazons also fit into this idea, And I once saw a mesopotamian relief were three persons came from foreign lands to see the king, and the only one riding was the woman, who was interpreted to be a princess. I just think this is all very interesting. You seem to have the resources and forum to elaborate on this. Am I wrong,? Or is there something to it?
I don't see any reason to think that women rode first. I mean, it could be true. Modern people in the west have very different ideas about the "right" ratio of horse-to-rider height than ancient people did.
My feeling on this is that you seem motivated to controversially move the focus from Dyn Edyn to Trapair Law. No worries, I do understand the need of researchers to upset the apple cart.
Gosh, no - not intending to be controversial. I'm pretty much following the scholarship I've looked at (which is quite a lot). The story of Leudonus/Loth is clearly set at Traprain, and that's where the stone is. Eidyn is obviously also a place of importance, but it is not clear to historians/archaeologists/Celticists how Eidyn and Traprain relate to one another politically in the 6th, or previous, centuries. I don't think there's an apple-cart to upset here.
The royal line (nazoreans, chosen ones, scattered elects) far off ( York ) = Claudians Lot = James the lesser ( Drusus JC aka Andronicus) = Stephanos = Silas (little Saul) Urianus = John the baptizer (Nero JC aka Junias) = Phillippos = Barnabbas (son of the father = son of Uranos/Chronos = Son of Elias/ Zebedeus) Auguselus/Agabus = Andrew the elder (Drusus germanicus) = James the Just (Santiago) the heir of Tiberius princeps (Herod), why St. Paul is an herodian/ tiberian aka Zacharias barachai the prosperous, blessed or rich. His diagonal cross is on the scottish flag. Urianus overlaps with St. George the patreon of England. Joseph of Arimathea (Claudius divius) the brother of Germanicus is the roman emperor under whose rule Brittannia was conquered. He and his son Lazarus (Brittannicus) never set a foot on the isles soil and so didn't the 3 magisters It's all legend. Lot or Loth = Abrahams nephew = Laban, Nabal, Naboth, Uriah ; the suffering knight = EL, helios, Elimelech, Elymas etc. = Mercurius, Hermes = Paul.
I don't know who would read your comment, or if they would think you are crazy, but the truth is not difficult to see if you gather information, names....and it all comes together in a clear picture.
I've seen this before. Just a jumble of names, historic, legendary, biblical all mashed together with no timeline or any sense. This person is crazy or drunk Don't take any notice of them.
You're so wrong here. Votodina tribe and king arturius the first came from the Lothians. Ye auld Goddodin. King Arturius birthed Wales and gave us the legend of King Arthur. Ever wonder why we have Arthur's seat? Bathgate hills in the west with Cairnpapple. Trapain law in the east and Arthur's seat in the south make up the Goddodin triangle 🔺️ the LAND OF THE GODS. Great read, check it out sometime 😊
It comes from Loth-ian where ian is a suffix given to names to make placenames similar to the form Ceredigion (Ceredig-ion). The Welsh name mentioned Lleuddin (9:17), rather than being a person's name, is the actual placename. Lleuddiniawn then got reduced to Lleuddiawn whence Lothian. The original Lleuddin is Lleu-din where din gets lenited to ddin. Lleu-din is fort Lugus or in older form Lugudunon. The original meaning of Lleuddin was lost which is why it was used to create the name Lleuddiniawn. This is similar to Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen) where the original meaning of sea fort (Moridunon) was lost so they tacked another word for fort onto the beginning giving Caer-myrddin. The original Moridunon is preserved in myr-din. Not only was the meaning forgotten but the name Myrddin was then thought to refer to Myrddin (Merlin) of King Arthur legend. One theory was that the name Myrddin was based on the name of the town, either way it shows a lot of original meanings of names were lost by the middle ages.
I'd have to imagine that, if this does speak of pre-Germanic populations & is from that corner of Scotland, then having translated the names into Welsh would've been equally incorrect.
The Britons of the Old North spoke a precursor of Welsh which has changed a lot, but still has a lot in common, too. Since we can't know exactly how the language was pronounced, Welsh seems like the best choice.
There never was a king called Arthur, but there was an Arthur who fought battles and inspired the legends. One good clue to accuracy is the differing opinions about him. There more references to Arthur being a brutish bully who caused resentment. There aren't many fictional characters that cause such polar opinions. There aren't any polemics attacking Sherlock Holmes or James Bond. Real people cause resentment and praise amongst those who knew them. Fictional characters have fans who praise them, and everyone who isn't a fan couldn't give a shit.
@@karlbarlow8040 Well, maybe. Nennius do say that Arthur was a War leader (maybe from Rheged) but there are problems with his accounts. The battles he lists have some that are up to 200 years apart of the ones we know happened. Worse is that we have an account from just after Arthur supposedly lived, Gildas, and he does not seem like someone who would have failed to mention the amazing war leader who saved his people from being totally invaded by the Saxons (that kinda happened anyways a while later but it seems it was a cultural thing then a pure military). Gildas "De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae" seems to have been written sometimes between 510-530 CE so if Arthur did exist, it must have been after that point although the battle of Mount Badon supposedly happened either in 499 or 500 CE, and it does seems to have been a real battle but it does not seem to have been connected to Arthur before Bede and Nennius. That doesn't necessarily mean Arthur didn't exist but if he did, he was likely less of a big deal then Nennius claims. The oldest mention of him are 2 centuries after his alleged victory at Mount Badon so anything written that much later should be taken with a grain of salt. Gildas however did write about a hero battling the Saxons a bit earlier, a dude named Ambrosius Aurelianus who does tick in some of the boxes and his text is far closer to the actual events and he was indeed a war leader so it is very possible he is the origin of the myth that later got mixed in with others who also fought the Saxons. It is certainly an interesting topic. It does sounds like you have read Nennius account already So I recommend you also look over Gildas, it is really the only extensive source we have for the period in question written relatively closely to the events. I guess Venerable Bede is the third old source also worth a look, but his seems far more fantastic and less likely, and was together with the Angle Saxon chronicles Geoffrey of Monmouth's primary sources (together with his imagination).
@loke6664 thanks, you know your stuff. I've read Gildas, and it does seem odd that Arthur doesn't get a mention, but he does make reference to someone called "the bear," which is "Arth" in Welsh. Gildas liked to play with names, and it would fit with his style. He called Vortigern " superbus tyranus," which is a pun that only works for Welsh speakers, so perhaps Arthur is there after all. As to the battle dates being separated by two centuries, Rome was sacked three times in eight hundred years, so an incomplete history of Rome would probably use that argument to say that it was never sacked because the dates didn't match! There were two battles at Baddon at least so perhaps the dates refer to duplicate, later events that we know more about and shouldn't be evidence for another event that could have happened earlier on the same site. I'm a big fan of Nennius. He cuts and pastes excerpts from books now lost, which is a method of history seldom used. Because of his late date, he is discounted, but his sources are by definition much earlier, and I think it is a shame that more isn't made of this gift he has given us. Thanks again for your thought provoking comment.
Enjoyed that. Lothians is more known for St Cuthbert was my understanding St Kentigern more to the West of us I always thought. Great video. Cheers pal
@@KrisHughes great stuff. Will be watching more. Medival ruin in my village ST CUTHBERTs. Built in the 11th century fell into disrepair couple of centuries later I think. EAST CALDER. Also rumoured Templar artifacts here a corner stone on a building with a dagger and goblet if that's any symbolology you understand also a Templar grave in St Cuthberts. (alledgedly?).
@@KrisHughes I've heard it whispered that they also fought fir Bruce. Also Scotland being the home of Free Masonsry and also with Scotland being the real Holy Land but that's another story. Nice chatting 😎👍
St Kentigern (aka St Mungo) was born in Culross in Fife according to myth/legend. His mother was said to be Thenew/Teneu/Tannoch - aka St. Enoch, a princess said to be the daughter of King Lot/Loth of Lothian. The legend goes that she was was set adrift in a boat in the Firth of Forth as punishment for getting pregnant (possibly r@ped), and rescued by monks at Culross, where she gave birth to Kentigern. The time frame for all this is said to be 6th/7th century CE.
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As someone who's lived in East Lothian my whole life, I've been up Traprain law multiple times but never knew the history so that was very interesting to learn. Great video
Thank you! It's great to hear that folk from East Lothian are happy with this video. I don't take that lightly. I used to spend a lot of time there.
I've just lucked in to your channel. Your account of Lothian was by far the clearest, best presented, most authoritative and most evocative of any of the videos of the 6th to 11th centuries CE in Scotland and North England I've watched. Your balance of legend and such few written accounts as exist was just right and your evident relish for the legends plain. Hugely enjoyable. My thanks.
Well thank you! It's what I'm trying for.
Thank you for evoking the Mists of Time with glimpses of history and legend drifting. Joyce Hill
Enjoyed it , Everybody has to make up their mind of what has happened, with the information available .
Love this. I'm from West Lothian!
These stories have been part of me my whole life! The votadina and the legend of King Athur, and the birth of Wales. Epic stuff!!
Dont forget Cairnpapple in the Bathgate hills, and its links to the Goddodin triangle.
LOTHIAN: LAND OF THE GODS😊👌
I remember going up Cairnpapple once - a long time ago - and it was absolutely covered in blaeberries.
I, an ardent fan of LOTR who (apparently) isn't able to read, came for Lothlórien - and stayed for a pretty interesting documentary about Loth of Lothian. Well played, Miss. Weeeell played...
And Tolkien's love was Luthien. See Beren and Luthien.
Me too dude
East Lothian resident here ☺️🖐️ Thank you for this video, very informative!
Good to have the local seal of approval! (Not always an easy thing to get.) I used to spend a lot of time in East Lothian. It's very close to my heart.
Living in Edinburgh I’ve rock climbed on Traprain Law many times and had no idea about this! Thanks!
I happily stumbled across your channel...I love the ancient history of Britain and all the fascinating tribes...thanks! 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
@@KrisHughes very much enjoyed...looking forward to absorbing all your other videos 🔥
A lovely film i enjoyed thank you. Being from Lothian I was familiar with this name as a boy.
Aye - being a former king of Scots, of course you would be. Thanks!
Thanks for this we live near Luggate and knew something of the history having visited all the historic places mentioned and noticed the names or some older properties like Dunpender house. This brings it all together
So glad you enjoyed it!
Very informative. I love Arthurian lore very much.
I love the way your logic and presentation gives the different view points and gives how reasons someone may have created the legends. Very wonderful.
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it.
Lived most of my life in Lothian never heard of gododdin or loth thanks for the knowledge
Funny how it's not well known, not taught in school, etc.
Fascinating history. Enjoyed the video a LOT 👍 Thank you 👍
Greetings from the Netherlands 🇳🇱, TW.
Thanks! I see what you did there...
@@KrisHughes :-)
An excellent piece of work. Thank You
Thank you too!
Make Bernicia Great Again 😊👍
it amazes me how little we know abour our own history if its not destroyed its lost . scotland is a very special place that so much is hidden .
I've been to Traprain Law. I've managed to get most of the way up. I am determined to get to the summit, so I will be back. I saw the Roman Silver Hoard. It is housed in the National Museum of Scotland.
I scrambled up the hard way a few years ago and it was exhausting. It is steeper than it looks from the bottom. At the top, there was a herd of wild ponies. Very memorable and a special place.
@@karlbarlow8040 I will be going back. I don't know when, but I will be back, and I will get that view from the summit.
@AScottishOdyssey I came down the easy way. I wouldn't recommend the sheer face I took, by the lay-by. I regretted it before I was half way up, but a climb down seemed worse so I was forced to go on! Enjoy your visit.
@@karlbarlow8040 Thank you.
Suchba beautiful and powerful presentation! Thank you, my lady!
Thanks! (I know you mean it nicely, but less of the 'lady' stuff, please.)
Great presentation. Thank you. ❤
Very educational. This is a video to watch again as a companion to any book on Arthur, Geoffrey, Saxons in the north, etc. I wish I had this video when I read Lawhead's Arthurian trilogy. Thank you 💡
Thanks mate!
So fascinating. I’m just over the Firth in Fife. ❤
I used to spend a lot of time in Fife, back in the day.
Swine herding also plays a big role in the Fourth Branch story, Gwydion stealing Pryderi's otherworldly pigs, so it's interesting that the killing spear thrown after an accusation of infidelity is placed into the hands of a swine herd in this story. You can almost see an evolutionary chart of how a story changes throughout hundreds of years of aural retellings and over hundreds of miles. I suspect early kings were very keen to have their bards incorporate their names or their father's names into such myths, an early example of the divine right of kings concept perhaps?
Lovely work and nicely presented!
Thank you!
Excellent video. Enjoy the history of Brythonic Scotland, not enough knowledge of it out there.
Thanks so much!
A video on the mysterious women who gave men claim to kingship would be great. If there is any information on them. I enjoyed this video very much. Thank you.
Livia (lydia) Tiberius mother was selling ceasars purple, the whore of babylon drunken with the blood of the saints (germanicus heirs) sought to replace Drusus
(the heir rightfully appointed by Octavian augustus himself). In the end Tiberius
who ended up with no heirs was succeeded by Gaius JC (caligula).
This is great! So glad I found this channel… I wish this video was 40+ minutes lol thanks for the great content!!
40 minutes! And here's me trying to be concise and not ramble. I'm glad you liked the video. Hope you will find some other ones that you enjoy.
@@KrisHughes Haha I get it! I’d struggle to put together a 2 minute video on a single topic, nevermind actually get folks to watch it lol I’ll be continuing to watch through your videos, you’ve got some great content! I wish I’d found your channel sooner lol
Many years ago I used to practice rock climbing on Traprain Law. I was aware it once was some kind of settlement but that was the extent of my knowledge. This is interesting.
Not only is it interesting, it is bringing the old gang back together. Welcome back.
I'm always staggered when passing Traprain Law that someone thought it ok to quarry a chunk out at some point in the past. We call it cake hill :)
I know, it's an absolute crime.
If you think that's bad check out the fate of Clatchard Craig above Newburgh in Fife.
great video very interesting.
Thanks so much!
Awesome thank you!
You're welcome.
Excellent video, thank you.
I live in Bathgate or in auld Scots 'bat-ket' in West Lothian, and its always fun to learn about where you are from.
Quick fact, Leu was an old lightning god, like thor here. Im guessing my lothian was named for him.
Been in Bathgate many a time. I don't think we can say that Lleu was a "lightning god" and call it a fact, though. Theory, possibly.
They say that Bathgate comes from Baedd Coed (wood of the boar).
@@KrisHughes You are correct, its more a legend.
P.S. i was spelling it how i would pronounce it, with a soft th ... Which carried on in the language well into the 20th century.
Boer Wood, yeah...spot on.
Not allot of People know that.
That was them pesky Romans called it that !.
Thoroughly enjoyable ,thank you ,aussie fan
Thank you!
I haven't watched these 26 minutes yet but I know it'll be like catnip.
Go on! You know you want to watch ...
Every time!
Never heard of him and I'm Scottish, amazing
great vid thanks
another awesome video
Thank you!
@@KrisHughes I'm keeping an eye on your Women and goddesses in the Mabinogi, I might try to join that one.
@@BlazeLeeDragon It would be lovely to finally meet you.
I grew up in Perthshire and Glen Lyon is associated with the Fianna and has the Testing Stone Of The Fianna. The Fianna possibly protected the Pictish kingdom from invaders -The Scots of Dal Riata
The Fianna are from Scottish legend which they brought with them from Ireland. I'm not familiar with the Scottish versions of the tales of Finn MacCool but I understand many have been adapted to suit Scottish locations but Finn and his Fianna are ultimately from Dal Riata. Did the Picts have something similar to the Fianna in their mythology? Maybe. There was an Irish god called Nechtan, husband of Boann who was the goddess of the river Boyne and where the river got its name. Nechtan was associated with a magical spring that was the source of the river Boyne. Nechtan also appears as a name amongst the Picts. The famous battle in which the Picts defeated the Anglo-Saxons and stopped their advance north of the Forth took place at Nechtansmere, Dun Nechtain.
Likewise the King of Ulster in the Ulster Cycle is Conchobar mac Nessa. Nessa is a goddess and appears in a Scottish tale about the naming of the river Ness and its lake. It's unlikely the Irish were responsible for this story given the area remained Pictish long after the Scots of Dal Riada had become Christian so it's an example of common mythology.
@damionkeeling3103 It is entirely possible the legends from Scots and Pictish mythologies were merged.
Glen Lyon may well a key location in the Caledonians resistance to the Romans who invaded Scotland several times through Southern Perthshire building glen blocking forts along the Highland Fault Line: Bochastle, Dalginross and Fendoch for example and several camps at Ardoch and Inchtuthill.
It's barely 20 miles as the crow flies from Dalginross to Glen Lyon.
@@Wee_Langside Back then stories must've got mixed up as isolated settlements heard stories from different sources and blended them over time while adapting some to include local people and places.
Excellent segment!
What is the painting at 16:57? Was it originally inspired by the Ossianic tales?
I've visited the Borders three times. I regret not visiting Traprain Law, which I've been aware of for over 35 years. You've certainly given the site MUCH more historical weight than I'd given it.
The painting is 'The Bard' by Thomas Jones (1774)
Catterick, cat / cath means place of battle site, then Ettrick. This is Ettrick castle near Douglas Lanarkshire. Meters away is Andershaw where YGododin was killed. Also meters away is Glentaggart (glen of the priest) which was the first battle of Arthur according to Ninius. Nearby is the remaining places of battles 2, 3 and 4 in the Douglas Village valley. Ladyknow, Castle dangerous (albeit the original fort before the medieval castle was built) and Bonn castle. All above are located on the old roman road network. It is likely YGododin supported Hael king of Strathclyde against the person we know today as Arthur who gets his name from a placename Aith (bear) and Kar meaning fort. Again Aithkar is a few miles away. Arthur's roman name was Coroticus which christian's made a joke about calling Arthur Cora meaning the maiden. Loth is likely to be a corruption of saint Maelok which was shortened to Lok / Log and Lot. Saint Gildas was the brother of Saint Michael (Hael), Saint Maelok, and the sons of saint Caw/Caddow. As Christianity spread from Strathclyde in the mid 4th century into the mid 6th century the legioned of Lot/Lok/Log and his magic spear (Spear of destiny) spread north.
..lake lothing in lowestoft by lothingland - a colony of the kingdom of northumbria!
The county of Lyonesse. 😊👍 LOTHIANS something special about our blood and soil
I walked up there mid June and it was blowing a gale. I could not believe that people would actually have lived up there throughout the year?
Yeah - it's quite exposed, but every hillfort in Europe ...
@@KrisHughes to me the obvious thing would be to retreat there in the event of a threat. All around there is lovely gentle fertile farm land with sheltered rivers and wooded areas much more hospitable. I mean the day I was there it was fine until you were on top of the hill!!
@@angusarmstrong6526 Yes, I know! And I'm sure there were people living in the valleys who would come into the fort when there was danger. But remember they also had ramparts. Stone and/or wood and houses.
very nice
Thanks
There is an ancient fort on top of the hill just next to my house when your up there you can see Traprain law and Berwick law
Which hill?
@@KrisHughes I’m not sure it has a name but the wood were the settlement is situated is called Camp wood which is on the top of the hill it’s about 8 miles south of Edinburgh near Mayfield
@@KrisHughes Its a settlement in Camp Wood, and nearby to the aptly named Chesters Wood, in Mayfield, Dalkeith, Midlothian. Shown on Ordinance Survey map at reference 55.863150, -3.025146
@@billps34 Thanks!!
Well spoken in CLEAR English.
That's one of the best things you can tell me. I can't be doing with mumbling.
Am from west lothian
Think I've previously mentioned in your comments the link between Nudd Hael and Lludd Llaw Ereint created by the name "Nudd Llaw Hael" found in a variant of triad 71. His seat of power isn't recorded as far as I'm aware, but the Dyfnwal dynasty seems to be broadly centred around the central lowlands, where as the Coiling seems to be further south near the current border. This may make him a better candidate for Lot...?
If I'm correct about Lludd Llaw Ereint, Nudd Hael and Lot of Lothian being the same, then his son Gwyn suddenly starts to look a lot like Gawain of (French) Arthuriana. If Lot is a conflation of Lleu and Lludd, then Gawain could be a conflation of Gwalchmei and Gwyn...?
Nudd Hael is also mentioned in one of the (historical) Taliesin poems - but there's no hand in his name that time. In legend, Lludd Llaw Ereint is usually associated with the far south of England, incl. London. I would say we should assume he's related to the Nuada Airgetlam/Nodens complex of deities, rather than see him as a historical character.
@@KrisHughes Ow, which poem is that? It's been a while since I read them and have evidently forgotten that one.
The triad mentioned is the only time I'm aware of Nudd Hael including Llaw in the middle.
I know Geoffrey of M has a King Lud in South England / London, but I'm sceptical of any connection to Lludd L E. Is there anything else to place him there?
@@jamescarruthers1967 The ref. to Nudd Hael is toward the end of Yspeil Taliesin.
At the beginning of Lludd a Llyfellys it states that Lludd "rebuilt the walls of London".
@@KrisHughes sorry, busy few days...
I think Lludd and Llefelys is derivative of Geoffrey's Lud and I don't think that Lludd is ever given the epithet "Llaw Ereint". Pretty sure the epithet only occurs in Culhwch ac Olwen, where the story of Creiddylad seems to have a more northern origin.
Great piece, lots to chew on. The name Leudonis, is it not more likely to have been pronounced "Looth-onis" (much like Clyd/Clydd, the river of Loth) rather than "Lay-uh-donis"?
"Leudonis" is from a text written in Latin, where the proper name are Latinized, which was normal for the period. It's not clear what the native language of the scribe was.
Just rewatched and have another question...
At 10:46 you refer to Geoffrey taking characters from the Old North and including them like satellites around Arthur, while you have a graphic of various names orbiting Geoffrey's statue. Most of the names have a clear link to Old N, but you also have Morgan, Modred and Uther... What's the link for them? Or am I reading too much into the graphic? 😅
(I suppose Morgan and Modred as Urien's wife and Lot's son respectively have a link, but those links don't survive from any source pre Geoffrey)
You're reading too much in. Perhaps not my best graphic ever! Only some of them have a link, although Modron appears to be the inspiration for Morgan la Fay. More on that here: th-cam.com/video/0E_ShNyGskc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=7gehzh0KFMoOoxCu
Is it me, or Southern Britain and the Midlands are not as magical as Wales, Cornwall and the regions of the Hen Ogledd? Everytime we hear about kings, kingdoms and stories of Wales and the Old North, it's like learning from a fantasy book. I love this.
If your focus is on Celtic-speaking cultures, then I suppose the South and East lost that sooner, to a large extent.
@@KrisHughes
Yeah, that's because the south was lost in a very short period, the north endured for much longer, and that is quite fascinating.
I would say the entirety of the UK is equally magical as any other and is not dependent on the culture of the region from that moment in time ,we have perennial myths which give a slewed history simply because of their survival over other stories from other ancient peoples😊
no its you this video is skewd as lothian like strathclyde went way down our east cost these have connetion to the brythonic welsh click f kin bait and nothing factual your not even scottish
clackmannan you ref idiot us the stone of mannan mac ler its were he had one of his houses catterick your f k in wrong again catterick was the site of an ancient town and marne is an ancienent battle site and were called scots after the tribe of the scoti an irish clan
Im from West Lothian, and I'd often wondered about the name.
Well - tell your friends! That's what keeps knowledge alive.
You know, I wouldn't completely rule out that king was buried next to the stone in Saxon times, there are a lot of Saxon graves in and around bronze age graves in England so there might very well have happened here too as long as it was in pagan times. Christians did not do that. If that happened he would have been buried with some expensive grave goods but those could have been plundered a long time ago.
But it is likelier that people just assumed the stone was connected to the hillfort and it eventually turned into a myth about the founder of Lothia being buried there.
It is a shame Nennius doesn't mention him, we don't really know how much Y Gododdin have changed to when it was written down so it is kinda hard to say if Lot was a real person or not.
Another possibility is that the name was older and that people did call one or several kings that named after the country he/they ruled. That would explain why he was both connected with Arthur's time around 500 CE and St Kentigern a century later or so (even though I don't think Arthur existed).
Or of course that Geoftrey just made it up like he did with the "king of Colchester".
Unless some new evidence shows up, , I don't think we will ever find out which is the truth. Sometimes a nation or a place have been named after a ruler so it is certainly plausible he existed, but it is probably more likely he was just made up.
When did the Brittonic language die in southern Scotland?
There are no clear historical records for this, and a lot of different theories floated by various scholars. It probably continued the longest in Strathclyde and adjoining parts of Cumbria. It was certainly around in the 7th century, some would argue that it wasn't completely dead until the 10th or 11th century.
The last King of Strathclyde to bear an undoubtedly Welsh name was Owain Foel (Owain the Bald) and he regined until the mid 11th century. Whether that meant all his courtiers and the general populace were Welsh speaking at that time is up for debate.
Lothian wa also thought to come from some form of Lions Land
How do you make that out?
@@paddymeboy I didn't make it out. Just what came up a few years ago when I looked it up
Was Midlothian half his height?
😂
😂😂😂
Severus gave them this silver as a bribe
Something like that, for sure.
Nice
Thanks!
Great video. Well researched and thoroughly enjoyable. From your research the graphemics of the name Lothian would appear be Loth + ian = Lot + ian.
To quote Wikipedia (simply the easiest reference) the suffix "from Latin ianus, in which the -i originally was from the stem of the word being attached but later came to be felt as connective. In Middle English frequently it was -ien, via French."
The base root, -an = "word-forming element meaning "pertaining to," from Latin -anus, adjective suffix, in some cases via French -ain, -en. From PIE *-no-."
Thus, Lothian means "Pertaining to Lot" or "Belonging to Lot".
Just one point, the Goddidin were not all warriors of that country. The poem describes how the king Mynyddog Mwynfawr gathered fighting men from around the Celtic lands, including Wales and Pictland. They went on a binge for one year in Dun Edin before setting out and, with the exception of Aneirin (A Welshman? The poem is preserved in Welsh literature), all being killed.
The are the equivalent of Irish fían-bands;
"Gangs of roving, aristocratic youths without fixed dwellings - were a social institution… early Christian Ireland… dubbed its members ‘sons of death’... combustible young men… who had reached physical maturity but had not yet inherited the land and property upon which masculine social identity was founded". (Williams, M. (2021) Ireland’s Immortals. A history of the gods of Irish myth. Princeton & Oxford. PUP).
Dun Edin, Aberlady, Dunbar, Mannaw are all Pictish. The language is Pictish. These names demonstrate the linguistic characteristic pattern of the Pictish language. I'll be publishing this research soon on the net.
Thanks for your comments!
It doesn't really work to parse "Lothian" as if it's in its original form. It's an anglicisation of the Brythonic form - or possibly an anglicisation of the Latinisation of the Brythonic form!
I think we need to differentiate between The Gododdin and "the men who went to Catraeth". Not all the men who went to Catraeth were necessarily Gododdin. It's a long slog through genealogies and other references to attempt to identify the different individuals (and thankfully not my job!). Ben Guy gave a great seminar on this a few years ago. Available here: th-cam.com/video/WJQ8i4KPXQw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=hEN6not3BQRv0K_T
"They went on a binge" is a pretty rough and ready way of describing the ritual mead feast, and was a popular interpretation of Y Gododdin in the early 20th century. People formed a picture of a bunch of drunken rabble riding off to Catraeth like fools. However, a mead feast was at least as much solemn ritual as piss-up. Why this one is described as lasting a year is one of the many enigmas of the story.
I'm not sure that M Williams is the best source for understanding the fianna, or that they are necessarily analogous to the 'spears for hire' who went to Catraeth. A better, and more historically accurate description of the fianna can be found in 'Tales of the Elders of Ireland' Roe & Dooley (1999) pp xi -xiv
I don't think Welsh scholars would describe Aneirin as "a Welshman". The concept of Wales didn't exist in the 7th century, and Aneirin is believed to have lived in Yr Hen Ogledd. The most archaic text in the Book of Aneirin is in a very early form of what would later be called the Welsh language. See Koch's comments on this in The Celtic Heroic Age or his 'The Gododdin'.
Is it also Laughlin ? Na I think that’s north east
Is 'Lugus' = Lucas or Lucy ?
Don't think so.
Latin for lake is Lugo, likely to be the source for the semi legion of lady of the lake. saint Maelok / Mealog was often referred to as Log / Lauch etc.
Was Loth actually Lok / Lot? This was a common abbreviation used for this son of Caw (Caddow) king of Strathclyde who's full name was Saint Maelok. St. Maelok was called, Lok, Lot, Log (Maelog), Loch, Lauch and Malo. If he was then he has was a prince of Strathclyde in the 6th century who lived in Lugo in Spain and attended the second Council of Braga 572ade. Maelok predates saint Kentigern by 20 years or so at a maximum.
No. I don't think there's any relationship. If you watch the full video, I think you can see that.
Lothian was visited by Tolkien
All are characters to depict the formation and collapse of the Z-Pinch phenomena..
& here I thought Loth was a drow.
Ah, Lolth, the Spider Goddess of the Underdark 😁
Why would the pre vikings call them selves the gododdin???
The name has nothing to do with Odin, in spite of how it looks.
As pointed out, Gododdin is unrelated to Odin, dd is pronounced more like th in Welsh. But it is speculated by some that Lugus, or Lleu, the god mentioned in this video is in fact the Celtic version of Odin, or to be more precise; Odin and Lugus are both variants of a much older god. I reiterate this is speculation though.
There is an old Irish personal name Fothad, which has a general meaning of foundation. It's possibly a cognate of votad(ini) or rather Gododd(in). The tribal name might refer to being to being a founding or foundation people. The spelling in Old Welsh was Guotodin.
@@damionkeeling3103nice
Äntligen vet vi var Artur kom från
😮😅😅nather travis wrote a very good book on the subject of the daughter of Loth called.. the mist.inhis series of bookonhistory.❤❤2😂😂😂😂 And he mentions KING ARthur and prince orien. He also mentions St kentigern in Glasgow .
That's a lot of names/titles.
Yeah, it really is! Making these videos sometimes feels like tongue-twister boot camp! After I uploaded it, noticed that it sounds like I said Lleudiniawn rather that Lleuddiniawn a couple of times - even though I know better.
Hey just wondering if you have any Scottish Borders videos, great video!
Perhaps it’s not the focus of this channel however
@@tomdickson3225 I have a lot of videos about the Old North (like this one). That includes the Borders, but yeah - I'm not focused on "Scottish regions" or anything like that.
@@KrisHughes thank you for the info, great video regardless!!
Eliffer 'of the hosts'......??
What about him? I know who Eliffer Gosgorddfawr is, but not sure what you're asking. 🙂
Which battle of Reith did you mean? Because the one we know about took place close to Kirkcaldy in Fife. Is that another battle? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Raith
I'm talking about the battle of Catraeth in Yorkshire.
I think the video is asking the wrong question.
'Lothian' was surely 'Sloth Ian' - over time the 'S' went missing.
The real question should be - Who was Ian?
😂
So the Gododdin were the Kamikaze Highlanders of Monty Python fame?
The Goddodin were Lowlanders. Obviously.
Interesting channel :) I have for the last ten to twelve years toyed with the idea that women probably were the first serious horse riders, since the early riding horses were so small until they got bred bigger. So the stories of the riding Amazons also fit into this idea, And I once saw a mesopotamian relief were three persons came from foreign lands to see the king, and the only one riding was the woman, who was interpreted to be a princess. I just think this is all very interesting. You seem to have the resources and forum to elaborate on this. Am I wrong,? Or is there something to it?
I don't see any reason to think that women rode first. I mean, it could be true. Modern people in the west have very different ideas about the "right" ratio of horse-to-rider height than ancient people did.
All the early mythological figures associated with horses seem to be women. Rhiannon, Epona, Sequanna etc
My feeling on this is that you seem motivated to controversially move the focus from Dyn Edyn to Trapair Law. No worries, I do understand the need of researchers to upset the apple cart.
Gosh, no - not intending to be controversial. I'm pretty much following the scholarship I've looked at (which is quite a lot). The story of Leudonus/Loth is clearly set at Traprain, and that's where the stone is. Eidyn is obviously also a place of importance, but it is not clear to historians/archaeologists/Celticists how Eidyn and Traprain relate to one another politically in the 6th, or previous, centuries. I don't think there's an apple-cart to upset here.
You mean who was Lot of Lotian?
The royal line (nazoreans, chosen ones, scattered elects) far off ( York ) = Claudians
Lot = James the lesser ( Drusus JC aka Andronicus) = Stephanos = Silas (little Saul)
Urianus = John the baptizer (Nero JC aka Junias) = Phillippos = Barnabbas
(son of the father = son of Uranos/Chronos = Son of Elias/ Zebedeus)
Auguselus/Agabus = Andrew the elder (Drusus germanicus) = James the Just
(Santiago) the heir of Tiberius princeps (Herod), why St. Paul is an herodian/ tiberian
aka Zacharias barachai the prosperous, blessed or rich. His diagonal cross is on the
scottish flag. Urianus overlaps with St. George the patreon of England.
Joseph of Arimathea (Claudius divius) the brother of Germanicus is the roman
emperor under whose rule Brittannia was conquered. He and his son Lazarus
(Brittannicus) never set a foot on the isles soil and so didn't the 3 magisters
It's all legend. Lot or Loth = Abrahams nephew = Laban, Nabal, Naboth, Uriah ;
the suffering knight = EL, helios, Elimelech, Elymas etc. = Mercurius, Hermes = Paul.
I don't know who would read your comment, or if they would think you are crazy, but the truth is not difficult to see if you gather information, names....and it all comes together in a clear picture.
I've seen this before. Just a jumble of names, historic, legendary, biblical all mashed together with no timeline or any sense. This person is crazy or drunk
Don't take any notice of them.
@@AnneDowson-vp8lg Claudians (Clothi) family are first century romans, they overlap with the 7 dwarfs.
Lothian is from the Cymric Lwythan a Place of Rest in old Cymric, nothing to do with Arthur.
Diolch yn fawr i chi.
You're so wrong here. Votodina tribe and king arturius the first came from the Lothians. Ye auld Goddodin. King Arturius birthed Wales and gave us the legend of King Arthur. Ever wonder why we have Arthur's seat? Bathgate hills in the west with Cairnpapple. Trapain law in the east and Arthur's seat in the south make up the Goddodin triangle 🔺️ the LAND OF THE GODS. Great read, check it out sometime 😊
It comes from Loth-ian where ian is a suffix given to names to make placenames similar to the form Ceredigion (Ceredig-ion). The Welsh name mentioned Lleuddin (9:17), rather than being a person's name, is the actual placename. Lleuddiniawn then got reduced to Lleuddiawn whence Lothian. The original Lleuddin is Lleu-din where din gets lenited to ddin. Lleu-din is fort Lugus or in older form Lugudunon.
The original meaning of Lleuddin was lost which is why it was used to create the name Lleuddiniawn. This is similar to Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen) where the original meaning of sea fort (Moridunon) was lost so they tacked another word for fort onto the beginning giving Caer-myrddin. The original Moridunon is preserved in myr-din. Not only was the meaning forgotten but the name Myrddin was then thought to refer to Myrddin (Merlin) of King Arthur legend. One theory was that the name Myrddin was based on the name of the town, either way it shows a lot of original meanings of names were lost by the middle ages.
But the Welsh chronicles state that cunedda came from the old north not the other way about?? The oldest stone circles are in the NORTH
Who was Frodo from the Shire?
Wee guy from Stirling with big feet. I see him hanging about ramsdens trying to punt some shite ring.
Originally he was called Freddo, inventor of cheap chocolate.
His actual name was Maura Labingi. Tolkien chose the name Frodo Baggins to appear more familiar to English speakers.
I'd have to imagine that, if this does speak of pre-Germanic populations & is from that corner of Scotland, then having translated the names into Welsh would've been equally incorrect.
The Britons of the Old North spoke a precursor of Welsh which has changed a lot, but still has a lot in common, too. Since we can't know exactly how the language was pronounced, Welsh seems like the best choice.
@@KrisHughes Isn't that side the Picts?
King Arthur is a myth never was real
So is Jesus, etc, but there’ll be elements of truth
There never was a king called Arthur, but there was an Arthur who fought battles and inspired the legends. One good clue to accuracy is the differing opinions about him. There more references to Arthur being a brutish bully who caused resentment. There aren't many fictional characters that cause such polar opinions. There aren't any polemics attacking Sherlock Holmes or James Bond. Real people cause resentment and praise amongst those who knew them. Fictional characters have fans who praise them, and everyone who isn't a fan couldn't give a shit.
I'm inclined to agree, but who knows!
@@karlbarlow8040 Well, maybe. Nennius do say that Arthur was a War leader (maybe from Rheged) but there are problems with his accounts. The battles he lists have some that are up to 200 years apart of the ones we know happened.
Worse is that we have an account from just after Arthur supposedly lived, Gildas, and he does not seem like someone who would have failed to mention the amazing war leader who saved his people from being totally invaded by the Saxons (that kinda happened anyways a while later but it seems it was a cultural thing then a pure military).
Gildas "De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae" seems to have been written sometimes between 510-530 CE so if Arthur did exist, it must have been after that point although the battle of Mount Badon supposedly happened either in 499 or 500 CE, and it does seems to have been a real battle but it does not seem to have been connected to Arthur before Bede and Nennius.
That doesn't necessarily mean Arthur didn't exist but if he did, he was likely less of a big deal then Nennius claims. The oldest mention of him are 2 centuries after his alleged victory at Mount Badon so anything written that much later should be taken with a grain of salt.
Gildas however did write about a hero battling the Saxons a bit earlier, a dude named Ambrosius Aurelianus who does tick in some of the boxes and his text is far closer to the actual events and he was indeed a war leader so it is very possible he is the origin of the myth that later got mixed in with others who also fought the Saxons.
It is certainly an interesting topic. It does sounds like you have read Nennius account already So I recommend you also look over Gildas, it is really the only extensive source we have for the period in question written relatively closely to the events. I guess Venerable Bede is the third old source also worth a look, but his seems far more fantastic and less likely, and was together with the Angle Saxon chronicles Geoffrey of Monmouth's primary sources (together with his imagination).
@loke6664 thanks, you know your stuff. I've read Gildas, and it does seem odd that Arthur doesn't get a mention, but he does make reference to someone called "the bear," which is "Arth" in Welsh. Gildas liked to play with names, and it would fit with his style. He called Vortigern " superbus tyranus," which is a pun that only works for Welsh speakers, so perhaps Arthur is there after all. As to the battle dates being separated by two centuries, Rome was sacked three times in eight hundred years, so an incomplete history of Rome would probably use that argument to say that it was never sacked because the dates didn't match! There were two battles at Baddon at least so perhaps the dates refer to duplicate, later events that we know more about and shouldn't be evidence for another event that could have happened earlier on the same site. I'm a big fan of Nennius. He cuts and pastes excerpts from books now lost, which is a method of history seldom used. Because of his late date, he is discounted, but his sources are by definition much earlier, and I think it is a shame that more isn't made of this gift he has given us. Thanks again for your thought provoking comment.
Enjoyed that. Lothians is more known for St Cuthbert was my understanding St Kentigern more to the West of us I always thought. Great video. Cheers pal
Oh yeah, as far as doing saintly things, it would be Cuthbert. But I love the way Kentigern is mixed up with mythology.
@@KrisHughes great stuff. Will be watching more. Medival ruin in my village ST CUTHBERTs. Built in the 11th century fell into disrepair couple of centuries later I think. EAST CALDER. Also rumoured Templar artifacts here a corner stone on a building with a dagger and goblet if that's any symbolology you understand also a Templar grave in St Cuthberts. (alledgedly?).
@@dobermankompanie Those Templars got everywhere.
@@KrisHughes I've heard it whispered that they also fought fir Bruce. Also Scotland being the home of Free Masonsry and also with Scotland being the real Holy Land but that's another story. Nice chatting 😎👍
St Kentigern (aka St Mungo) was born in Culross in Fife according to myth/legend. His mother was said to be Thenew/Teneu/Tannoch - aka St. Enoch, a princess said to be the daughter of King Lot/Loth of Lothian. The legend goes that she was was set adrift in a boat in the Firth of Forth as punishment for getting pregnant (possibly r@ped), and rescued by monks at Culross, where she gave birth to Kentigern. The time frame for all this is said to be 6th/7th century CE.