Regarding the scene: The original options for the MC were either 1) surrender or 2) fight to the death. She doesn't feel like she can surrender (aristocrats, amiright), he can't let her go: he has an enemy unit dead to rights and they're in the middle of a *brutal* war. Her proposal is that the superior force gives a head start to the weaker force to run for it. It's an excuse/Hail Mary not to fight among the local's holy site, while giving both sides what they want (her unit gets a chance to live, his unit doesn't have to violate the holy site). "Hide and seek"/children's game was just the memory trigger for the MC. She's not actually suggesting they play hide and seek, it's more of a euphemism.
I’ve missed your long in depth book reviews! The wrap ups are great don’t get me wrong but you’re just so good at doing these kinds of critical analysises. This one has me sold!! Even though you didn’t love it I’m actually really interested
Hey have you heard of the book “Master of Sorrows”? I bought it without knowing anything about it and I’m currently reading it, and wow, I’m so surprised is not more well known! It’s pretty good and it has a very interesting premise: is the coming of age story of a hero who is, actually, the series’s dark lord! I really like you under hyped book recommendations, so now I’m returning the favor 😅 I think you would really like this book, the worldbuilding is very interesting as well.
I’ve really loved this book! Absolutely a masterpiece. Love the cover so gorgeous 🩵💚🫶🏻🫶🏻💛💙🩵💜🩷🩷💘💘💖💜🪻🪻📚📚📙📙📖📖📖📖🌷🌷❤️🌷💞🩶💘🫶🏻💚🩵💙💙💙💙💛🩷💜💜🪻🌷🌷🌷💗💞🩶🌈🌈💓💓🩶📚📖📖📖📚📙🌈🌷💛💛🩵💗💗💘💘💞💞💓🩶🩶💙
So you know how George RR Martin uses the war of the roses for his stuff? I think, haven't read this one, but I think he was going for the holiday truce of 1914, girls weren't playing soccer back then, so he probably just came up with a well known game that he thinks girls back then would've played, but unless it was a holiday, chances of a truce working is slim. Men are typically going to put in a sport, but women not so much (this is time specific, today, probably) so I don't know, my guess is that's what he was going for, a nonviolent game as opposed to a contact sport. Interesting choice, I definitely don't think it would've worked, but I didn't write the story either. I was worried after you said it's like P&P, that they'd end up making out or something, I need to lay off the romance it would seem, but that's one of my favorite stories, so hide and seek made me sigh with relief lol. As I don't know her character before that, I can't really say, but that's my reasoning. I'm a veteran and a woman, but that's today's mindset, not the early 1900s mindset. Considering I've seen way worse plot armor *cough rings of power*, this one doesn't bother me quite so much as I really think that's probably what he was going for. He kindof sounds like a love or hate author because people are either praising his stuff or they hate it. If I wasn't deep into the Expanse series, I'd check it out, but he's a bit low on my list, next year is Red Rising.
There are so many authors and books from recent decades booktubers keep intentionally overlooking because of view count=$. Most of them were so influential and inspiration for many later works. Just to mention Bruce Sterling and his Schismatrix Plus from 80s that has been inspiration for this whole time even for authors like A.Tchaikovsky, A.Reynolds and others.
It's almost as if the attention economy is an inefficient way to surface quality content, lol. Sarcasm aside, I completely agree. I don't blame the content creators in the least as I try not to begrudge anyone their living. But as a society we need to be aware of what kind of media systems we build and support. Most of the ones we've got presently have massive misalignment between what's actually good for society and what's incentivized. Obviously book finding is not the most immediately concerning of these issues, but it's in the mix for sure.
Yeah, as a military geek, that's crazy talk. Hide and seek? If you want a "two sides playing games" thing, going with soccer between the trenches in the Great War would be a far better option. That "solution" completely breaks verisimilitude.
I know what you're referring to! I think maybe if it'd been a holiday, that would've worked also for me; unless I'm mistaken, I think there have been battles in history that were somewhat "put on pause" because of a holiday both sides pretty universally celebrated--which it sounds like you'd probably know about that than me if you're a military geek. I tried to look up if a hide and seek game actually was used in a real battle at some point, but couldn't find anything (though maybe I didn't search hard enough!)
@@ebnovels there have been multiple holiday truces throughout history, but I believe the bulk of the "soccer between the trenches" type truces are in World War One due to the very particular circumstances around that war (disillusioned soldiers; brutal, soul-crushing industrialized warfare; shared religion and culture; etc.). That shared culture is one of the things that makes WWI so tragic. There was much less mutual hatred than in World War Two. There are more examples in history of attacks on holidays or broken truces (especially in inter-culture or inter-religion wars) than there are of soldiers meeting to play games, which is part of what makes the Christmas Truce stories from WWI so notable.
This is getting pretty far removed from discussion of the book; but I always think it worthwhile to remember, when discussing the xmas truce of 1914, that it happened in 1914. Just 5 months after active fighting began. Part of what made it possible, a big part, is that only a tiny fraction of the causalities the war would cause had yet happened. By 1916, most soldiers didn't want truces. As embittered as they may have been (indeed reported being) about the fighting generally, the "causes" & their own leadership; they also remembered who had shot their friends. Who opened the valves to create the gas clouds that melted the eyes and lungs of their comrades. It's a complicated topic and there are important examples of soldiers finding ways not to kill at all stages of the war (I'd heartily recommend to any self-identified military geek: _The Live and Let Live System_ by Tony Ashworth). But it is genuinely hard to imagine the altruistic sparing of whole, combat capable enemy units happening during the mid to late stages of any ongoing conflict ... and there are vanishingly few examples of such in history.
@@Psittacus_erithacus agreed. Another factor to consider in regards to the decline of such truces is that the brass cracked down on them, quite severely. Regardless, it's a fascinating, complicated topic.
I haven't read the book, so cannot speak to it. But you are not alone in your concerns with the example scene. In fact, I've gone through a three step hermeneutical process trying to write this comment (which is stupid long, offered only for engagement's sake and should be read by no one). I absolutely do not require (or even desire) "accuracy" or "realism" in fiction. But I do need for it to be real for the characters.* Plausible enough internally for the characters to take it seriously. I want fiction (that's serious in tone) to have some chance of showing me something real about the world or human experience. Whether that's connecting directly with a character or just interfacing with an author's ideas; the point is interacting with thoughts that aren't my own. I need to have some reason to believe those thoughts are worthwhile or else what's the point? Anything that makes me question whether the author takes their own subject seriously or understands it well enough to have anything interesting to say is a problem. _* At least in fiction that's in any part serious in tone. Fun is fun and comedy is comedy. Character verisimilitude may or may not be important in all genres._ That said, this might fall into the category of "Do I need an author to be an expert in warfare before I can find something worthwhile in their writing about war?" and I think the answer to that is (or at least should be) "No". I've had friends react to military fiction by pointing out that strategy A or B (usually something from real world history) would have "destroyed" one side or the other and complain that this ruined the story. I feel bad for them, as it often seems to me that their familiarity with the subject has prevented them (through distraction) from having a worthwhile experience. A positive experience that is entirely possible and more easily accessible by those without the same familiarity with the subject. That isn't really a problem with the book, just a failure of the interface between the author and a specific reader. Sometimes such things can be fixed from the reader's side by adjusting their expectations (easier said than done of course). Sometimes it can't. But either way, I'm not sure it can really be viewed as a failure on the author's part. On the third hand (we all have one of those, right?), there has to be a line somewhere. I happen to have an amount of niche knowledge about historical fencing (active HEMAist, even had the honor of helping with the translation of a couple of historical sources). Nevertheless "unrealistic" sword fights in fiction don't bother me in the least. As long as the characters take the threat seriously it doesn't matter at all whether the "moves" would actually work. But that's the sticking point. The characters have to take the threat seriously. Something about military officers in an ongoing conflict thinking that the hide & seek thing is something they could sell to their subordinates or (as pointed out in the video) that such an excuse was needed at all; strongly suggests that the characters do not take some aspect of the world seriously. Either the conflict or the intellect of the soldiers serving under them. So maybe, in that context it *_is_* a problem after all.
I liked the book for the most part, but i agree with your criticism. The thing i really didn't like was the ending. I saw what was coming 50-100 pages ago and was very excited about what will happen afterwards. Bu, we didn't get anything. And it was over in a paragraph. 😑
I haven't read Guns of the Dawn, but I have read many others by the same author. He moves between a lot of genres and styles - some of his stuff just feels like completely different authors to me! That being said - can't recommend Children of Time enough!! I think it is his most known book/series.
Before you even said you didn't quite like this story I was already thinking "eh", tbh. Edit: about "that scene". Tbh I think he should've just shot her before she could react. (Dark but at least interesting.) Or argued a one-on-one fight or something. Someone could've used that situation as a distraction. Everyone would just stand there otherwise. It frustrates me and I haven't even read it lol.
i read this book early this year and enjoyed it, but i think the best way i could describe it is forgetable. i barely remember anything that happend apart from broad strokes despite only having read it a few months ago
Ah, that's too bad. It's always a bummer when certain books don't stick with us. I feel like everything this year is having a difficult time competing with Age of Madness--I loved that series, so everything else is having a tough time 😅
I loved the themes of the book but ultimately the pacing let it down for me. And the fact that there was NO training sequence where Emily learns to fight, I was so looking forward to that bit and then they just skipped over it 😥
I was hoping to see more of that too, as well as her relationships with the other women during that chunk of time. Both things were, as you worded it, somewhat skipped over, which I suppose for some might be a plus (I know some people really prefer getting through training sequences) but I would’ve liked to have seen a bit more than what we did 😅
I totally get being the lone voice that doesn’t like a book. ‘Empire of Silence’ just left me cold, and I have yet to find a booktuber that does anything other than gush about it. You refer to the plot armor for Emily…in EoS Hadrian is nothing but a full set of plot armor. I DNF’d at the point where he talks his way onto the military vessel during the alien attack. Just no, the absurdity of that scene booted me out forever. Trying to imagine Hide & Seek in the current conflicts makes the whole insanity of that scene so obvious. What a bizarre choice of the author. With regards the writing of the women characters…seems Tchaikovsky writes spiders better. 😏
I'm actually really excited for Children of Time, as I've heard really interesting things about that one (and thankfully I don't have a spider phobia, so long as they're not in my house 😂). I do plan to check out Empire of Silence eventually, but I'll definitely keep in mind that there might be some plot armor scenes that irritate me 😅
In fairness, he does write spiders *_very_* well. Also in fairness, comparing the scene to modern conflicts might not be entirely sporting. As I understand it the book is essentially faux Napoleonic in setting. At that time officers often had more in common with officers on the other side than they did with their own men. Part of that commonality was the (inaccurate and blatantly self-serving) idea that members of the upper-classes were civilized in a way that common people were not. It made the idea of two officers negotiating some kind of settlement between themselves with zero input from their subordinates much more plausible than it would be today. Not so plausible that I'd actually buy the scene in question, but still ... more plausible than a Houthi commander willingly playing non-violent hide & seek with the Hadhrami Elite.
man i dont know why i thought this was written by the swme author as the Witcher & i was like ???? damn he's written so many books & then i realised its completely different authors & felt so stupid. but holyyy shit the hide and seek scene would yoink me out of the story sooo quick, thats actually so insane 😭
Regarding the scene:
The original options for the MC were either 1) surrender or 2) fight to the death. She doesn't feel like she can surrender (aristocrats, amiright), he can't let her go: he has an enemy unit dead to rights and they're in the middle of a *brutal* war. Her proposal is that the superior force gives a head start to the weaker force to run for it. It's an excuse/Hail Mary not to fight among the local's holy site, while giving both sides what they want (her unit gets a chance to live, his unit doesn't have to violate the holy site).
"Hide and seek"/children's game was just the memory trigger for the MC. She's not actually suggesting they play hide and seek, it's more of a euphemism.
I like the idea of resolving any conflict by proposing hide & seek.
I’ve missed your long in depth book reviews! The wrap ups are great don’t get me wrong but you’re just so good at doing these kinds of critical analysises. This one has me sold!! Even though you didn’t love it I’m actually really interested
Ah, yay!!! That actually makes me really excited. I hope you enjoy it :D
I had all the same issues as you and more! You’re the only one I’ve heard criticize this book, this video is so validating 📚
Ah, well I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the book, but I'm glad I was able to provide some validation for you 🙂
I gave up on this one about 100 pages in. I'm also now feeling glad I never picked it up again.
Hey have you heard of the book “Master of Sorrows”? I bought it without knowing anything about it and I’m currently reading it, and wow, I’m so surprised is not more well known! It’s pretty good and it has a very interesting premise: is the coming of age story of a hero who is, actually, the series’s dark lord!
I really like you under hyped book recommendations, so now I’m returning the favor 😅 I think you would really like this book, the worldbuilding is very interesting as well.
Thanks for the rec! The title sounds familiar, but I don't recall why at the moment. I'll try to check it out sometime :D
The Shadows of the Apt by this author series was a real treat
I’ve really loved this book! Absolutely a masterpiece. Love the cover so gorgeous 🩵💚🫶🏻🫶🏻💛💙🩵💜🩷🩷💘💘💖💜🪻🪻📚📚📙📙📖📖📖📖🌷🌷❤️🌷💞🩶💘🫶🏻💚🩵💙💙💙💙💛🩷💜💜🪻🌷🌷🌷💗💞🩶🌈🌈💓💓🩶📚📖📖📖📚📙🌈🌷💛💛🩵💗💗💘💘💞💞💓🩶🩶💙
So you know how George RR Martin uses the war of the roses for his stuff? I think, haven't read this one, but I think he was going for the holiday truce of 1914, girls weren't playing soccer back then, so he probably just came up with a well known game that he thinks girls back then would've played, but unless it was a holiday, chances of a truce working is slim. Men are typically going to put in a sport, but women not so much (this is time specific, today, probably) so I don't know, my guess is that's what he was going for, a nonviolent game as opposed to a contact sport. Interesting choice, I definitely don't think it would've worked, but I didn't write the story either. I was worried after you said it's like P&P, that they'd end up making out or something, I need to lay off the romance it would seem, but that's one of my favorite stories, so hide and seek made me sigh with relief lol. As I don't know her character before that, I can't really say, but that's my reasoning. I'm a veteran and a woman, but that's today's mindset, not the early 1900s mindset. Considering I've seen way worse plot armor *cough rings of power*, this one doesn't bother me quite so much as I really think that's probably what he was going for. He kindof sounds like a love or hate author because people are either praising his stuff or they hate it. If I wasn't deep into the Expanse series, I'd check it out, but he's a bit low on my list, next year is Red Rising.
Wait what, how was this video 50min?! I love your in depth review! I hope you make more of them :)
There are so many authors and books from recent decades booktubers keep intentionally overlooking because of view count=$. Most of them were so influential and inspiration for many later works. Just to mention Bruce Sterling and his Schismatrix Plus from 80s that has been inspiration for this whole time even for authors like A.Tchaikovsky, A.Reynolds and others.
It's almost as if the attention economy is an inefficient way to surface quality content, lol.
Sarcasm aside, I completely agree. I don't blame the content creators in the least as I try not to begrudge anyone their living. But as a society we need to be aware of what kind of media systems we build and support. Most of the ones we've got presently have massive misalignment between what's actually good for society and what's incentivized. Obviously book finding is not the most immediately concerning of these issues, but it's in the mix for sure.
Yeah, as a military geek, that's crazy talk. Hide and seek? If you want a "two sides playing games" thing, going with soccer between the trenches in the Great War would be a far better option. That "solution" completely breaks verisimilitude.
I know what you're referring to! I think maybe if it'd been a holiday, that would've worked also for me; unless I'm mistaken, I think there have been battles in history that were somewhat "put on pause" because of a holiday both sides pretty universally celebrated--which it sounds like you'd probably know about that than me if you're a military geek. I tried to look up if a hide and seek game actually was used in a real battle at some point, but couldn't find anything (though maybe I didn't search hard enough!)
@@ebnovels there have been multiple holiday truces throughout history, but I believe the bulk of the "soccer between the trenches" type truces are in World War One due to the very particular circumstances around that war (disillusioned soldiers; brutal, soul-crushing industrialized warfare; shared religion and culture; etc.). That shared culture is one of the things that makes WWI so tragic. There was much less mutual hatred than in World War Two.
There are more examples in history of attacks on holidays or broken truces (especially in inter-culture or inter-religion wars) than there are of soldiers meeting to play games, which is part of what makes the Christmas Truce stories from WWI so notable.
This is getting pretty far removed from discussion of the book; but I always think it worthwhile to remember, when discussing the xmas truce of 1914, that it happened in 1914. Just 5 months after active fighting began. Part of what made it possible, a big part, is that only a tiny fraction of the causalities the war would cause had yet happened. By 1916, most soldiers didn't want truces. As embittered as they may have been (indeed reported being) about the fighting generally, the "causes" & their own leadership; they also remembered who had shot their friends. Who opened the valves to create the gas clouds that melted the eyes and lungs of their comrades.
It's a complicated topic and there are important examples of soldiers finding ways not to kill at all stages of the war (I'd heartily recommend to any self-identified military geek: _The Live and Let Live System_ by Tony Ashworth). But it is genuinely hard to imagine the altruistic sparing of whole, combat capable enemy units happening during the mid to late stages of any ongoing conflict ... and there are vanishingly few examples of such in history.
@@Psittacus_erithacus agreed.
Another factor to consider in regards to the decline of such truces is that the brass cracked down on them, quite severely.
Regardless, it's a fascinating, complicated topic.
I haven't read the book, so cannot speak to it. But you are not alone in your concerns with the example scene. In fact, I've gone through a three step hermeneutical process trying to write this comment (which is stupid long, offered only for engagement's sake and should be read by no one).
I absolutely do not require (or even desire) "accuracy" or "realism" in fiction. But I do need for it to be real for the characters.* Plausible enough internally for the characters to take it seriously. I want fiction (that's serious in tone) to have some chance of showing me something real about the world or human experience. Whether that's connecting directly with a character or just interfacing with an author's ideas; the point is interacting with thoughts that aren't my own. I need to have some reason to believe those thoughts are worthwhile or else what's the point? Anything that makes me question whether the author takes their own subject seriously or understands it well enough to have anything interesting to say is a problem.
_* At least in fiction that's in any part serious in tone. Fun is fun and comedy is comedy. Character verisimilitude may or may not be important in all genres._
That said, this might fall into the category of "Do I need an author to be an expert in warfare before I can find something worthwhile in their writing about war?" and I think the answer to that is (or at least should be) "No". I've had friends react to military fiction by pointing out that strategy A or B (usually something from real world history) would have "destroyed" one side or the other and complain that this ruined the story. I feel bad for them, as it often seems to me that their familiarity with the subject has prevented them (through distraction) from having a worthwhile experience. A positive experience that is entirely possible and more easily accessible by those without the same familiarity with the subject. That isn't really a problem with the book, just a failure of the interface between the author and a specific reader. Sometimes such things can be fixed from the reader's side by adjusting their expectations (easier said than done of course). Sometimes it can't. But either way, I'm not sure it can really be viewed as a failure on the author's part.
On the third hand (we all have one of those, right?), there has to be a line somewhere. I happen to have an amount of niche knowledge about historical fencing (active HEMAist, even had the honor of helping with the translation of a couple of historical sources). Nevertheless "unrealistic" sword fights in fiction don't bother me in the least. As long as the characters take the threat seriously it doesn't matter at all whether the "moves" would actually work. But that's the sticking point. The characters have to take the threat seriously. Something about military officers in an ongoing conflict thinking that the hide & seek thing is something they could sell to their subordinates or (as pointed out in the video) that such an excuse was needed at all; strongly suggests that the characters do not take some aspect of the world seriously. Either the conflict or the intellect of the soldiers serving under them. So maybe, in that context it *_is_* a problem after all.
50 minutes? Heck yeah!!! You should see if you can interview him about this book. He has a really easy form you can use on his website
More military recs please 🥺
I've really loved this book! I'm glad I've checked it out some time ago
Yay! I'm glad you enjoyed it :D :D :D
I liked the book for the most part, but i agree with your criticism. The thing i really didn't like was the ending. I saw what was coming 50-100 pages ago and was very excited about what will happen afterwards. Bu, we didn't get anything. And it was over in a paragraph. 😑
Yes, I felt really disappointed by the abrupt ending, but I know some people like that.
I haven't read Guns of the Dawn, but I have read many others by the same author. He moves between a lot of genres and styles - some of his stuff just feels like completely different authors to me! That being said - can't recommend Children of Time enough!! I think it is his most known book/series.
50 MINUTES 😂 my heart
Haha, look away Christea, look away! 😂
I thought we was going to talk about 'hide and seek' the song
Another fantastic video and great job Elliot 🩷💘📚📚📚💘🩷💘📙💗💚📖🪻🧡🧡💖🌻💕🧡💙❤️🩶💗🌷🩵💜💛🩷💘🌈🩷🩷🩵🩵🌷📙💞💚🩶🌷💞💘💘📙📙💞🌈💛💚🩶🩵🌷🌷🩵💜💜
Before you even said you didn't quite like this story I was already thinking "eh", tbh.
Edit: about "that scene". Tbh I think he should've just shot her before she could react. (Dark but at least interesting.) Or argued a one-on-one fight or something. Someone could've used that situation as a distraction. Everyone would just stand there otherwise.
It frustrates me and I haven't even read it lol.
I'm friends with the author on Facebook :)
i read this book early this year and enjoyed it, but i think the best way i could describe it is forgetable. i barely remember anything that happend apart from broad strokes despite only having read it a few months ago
Ah, that's too bad. It's always a bummer when certain books don't stick with us. I feel like everything this year is having a difficult time competing with Age of Madness--I loved that series, so everything else is having a tough time 😅
I loved the themes of the book but ultimately the pacing let it down for me. And the fact that there was NO training sequence where Emily learns to fight, I was so looking forward to that bit and then they just skipped over it 😥
I was hoping to see more of that too, as well as her relationships with the other women during that chunk of time. Both things were, as you worded it, somewhat skipped over, which I suppose for some might be a plus (I know some people really prefer getting through training sequences) but I would’ve liked to have seen a bit more than what we did 😅
I read about the author and saw he lives not far from me 😂
omg such a great opportunity to propose a game of hide & seek ‼️
I totally get being the lone voice that doesn’t like a book. ‘Empire of Silence’ just left me cold, and I have yet to find a booktuber that does anything other than gush about it. You refer to the plot armor for Emily…in EoS Hadrian is nothing but a full set of plot armor. I DNF’d at the point where he talks his way onto the military vessel during the alien attack. Just no, the absurdity of that scene booted me out forever.
Trying to imagine Hide & Seek in the current conflicts makes the whole insanity of that scene so obvious. What a bizarre choice of the author. With regards the writing of the women characters…seems Tchaikovsky writes spiders better. 😏
I'm actually really excited for Children of Time, as I've heard really interesting things about that one (and thankfully I don't have a spider phobia, so long as they're not in my house 😂). I do plan to check out Empire of Silence eventually, but I'll definitely keep in mind that there might be some plot armor scenes that irritate me 😅
In fairness, he does write spiders *_very_* well.
Also in fairness, comparing the scene to modern conflicts might not be entirely sporting. As I understand it the book is essentially faux Napoleonic in setting. At that time officers often had more in common with officers on the other side than they did with their own men. Part of that commonality was the (inaccurate and blatantly self-serving) idea that members of the upper-classes were civilized in a way that common people were not. It made the idea of two officers negotiating some kind of settlement between themselves with zero input from their subordinates much more plausible than it would be today. Not so plausible that I'd actually buy the scene in question, but still ... more plausible than a Houthi commander willingly playing non-violent hide & seek with the Hadhrami Elite.
man i dont know why i thought this was written by the swme author as the Witcher & i was like ???? damn he's written so many books & then i realised its completely different authors & felt so stupid.
but holyyy shit the hide and seek scene would yoink me out of the story sooo quick, thats actually so insane 😭