Dave, I'm a newbee in electronics. So seeing a video like this is very helpful, and gives me confidence that I can build a board like you re doing. Thanks!
Just a tip for any newcomers who might be stumbling across this video, Dave mentions using the piece of copper clad under the PCBs, which is a great solution and one I've used in the past. But if you're looking for something a little more resilient, I find a thin piece of metal works even better. Personally I yank one of the panels off an old CD/DVD-ROM drive (I have dozens of the things just sitting around) and put that on top of my oven's tray. Works great, after the first few bakes the metal turns a rather interesting copper-ish color and sinks away any unnecessary heat.
You're already in 2014 over there. Here in Switzerland we have 21/2 hours to go.... Many thanks for your extremely instructive videos and omnipresent sense of humor! Happy New Year to yourself and your family.
Watching this I notice everything seems to be reel based for components. Maybe it's time for a Pick and Place machine. They can be had for around $3K USD. Just drop the board in, load up the reels and away it goes.
I agree with you John, it's got that Mil-Spec look to it. x] Nice work Dave, I appreciated the full length shot right from snipping the boards out to the testing after. I know I'm not the only one that needs more than 4 attempts to turn a 0603 resistor. xP
When I saw all the parts reflow together at the same time through the oven door, I was confident that the reflow was going to be a success. I'm really tempted to get that reflow controller, but use it to control a small hot plate instead of an oven; lack of space you see.
Hi Dave, You can use a silicone cooking mat in the oven to insulate the boards from the support. You can buy it at any cooking store, not very expensive. Just cut it to size.
Can't you use the tray that sits right on top of the bottom heaters instead of the grill? Looks like it should fit and might even be indended to be used this way.
Top stuff Dave, I wish I had better eyesight but that is what happens when you get older but as a tech I get annoyed things are so tiny so I can barely work on boards now without the illuminated mag glass.
I wonder if you got a tiny fan that could take the heat inside, and putting it in there would it help with the reflow to be more even since the air moving around the boards might not be all that fast moving. You might be able to drill a little hole in the side, and mount an external fan if you can't get a fan that can take the heat... I don't know.
Should you defeat the thermostat control in the factory toaster? It is right there at the edge of the solder profile and probably not even close to accurate.
Just so you know Xcelite is pronounced Celite (See-lite). The X is silent just like the K in Knob. The reason I know this is back in the 80's when I used to fix consumer electronics I was at one of my locale parts jobbers and the rep from Xcelite was there and I called them Xlite and was promptly corrected. 73 Lawrence, KF4HNF
Excellent vid Dave, thanks. It's helped me make my mind up to finally go for a modified toaster oven. I like the kit, but also tempted to throw together my own controller, if I can manage to fit it in between the numerous other projects I've got on my list - there's just never enough time... ;-) P.S I usually don't care much for green boards either but I really really love the olive green and gold look, think it'd be a winner (or possibly offer a choice if it's not too much hassle?)
When do you think the uCurrent gold boards will be available for regular purchase post kickstarter fulfillment? I don't have the money to back the kickstarter now but I'll definitely pick up a board sometime next year if that's possible.
I was thinking the same thing! Also some who are buying the Gold revision may be putting older revisions up on Ebay so hopefully there is enough units to go around...
get some polarized filter for you camera and the glare from the oven's glass will disappear. or just find some real polaroid glasses and shoot through them
hi , you shouldn't say your video is boring, I've just speeded you up about five times and you look like a human, pick and place machine lol lol . Seriously. Keep up the good work. I've learnt so much from your videos, I'm new to electronics just worked out how to calculate resistors values, I know, stop laughing. We all have to learn some time. My first experience with electronics was as a kid with my Tandy 150 in 1 which I loved, keep up the good work. All the best from the uk
Dave, are you planning to get one of the HDMI microscopes you showed? It seems like it would be awesome for this sort of thing, esp for showing video :)
Hi Dave, thanks for your video! I have the same kit and temperature issue from beta layout and was wondering if you still kept the thermo couple calibration adjustment from your previous video while using this clad board solution? Must say I love the idea of using a clad board and will surely try that as well! Thanks! Tijn
Me too! Fingernails also! I have Xuron and Plato brand, but they are the same thing. I have some little tiny Italian ones with an alignment pin in the mechanism, but they cost about $160 a pair, so no nail clipping with those.
Dave, how about auctioning this on Ebay? Might be good publicity for the Kickstarter project. Especially with it being a rare olive green version - which I have to say I *really* like - dark green and gold work well together.
Awesome video. Crumb tray is a metal plate, no? Suggest cut a small hole in top and small tempered glass window scrap from a glass company. Perfect viewing.
I never had much success with these DIY reflow ovens, the direct IR from the heaters seems to be the problem, lots of hot spots, impossible to ramp with any real control, I gave up and put mine in the bin, now I use a DIY hotplate and its a much better solution for small batch work, I would stay away from these DIY ovens, hot plates are much better.
ahh, it's funny to see that Dave uses the same method of flipping resistors that he's put onto the desk surface... It never works the first try, hahaha
couldn't you just use two pieces of wood, or some material that wouldn't degrade because of the heat, to lift the pcb from the metal bars, minimising the heat lose. or you could cut some thin metal bars to the width of the oven, and place them in such a manner that only the sides of the pcb are in contact with them. Black lines represent the contact points: i.imgur.com/rlRiGHV.jpg (picture of an older pcb)
Dave, is it me or those solder joints look of poor quality. No shiny mirror surface, black dots on some, and no surface curves. It might work now but I would be worried about customers shipping them back to you when they start failing prematurely. My two cents would be to stop dicking around with a microcontrolled toaster oven and buy a proper high powered bench top reflow oven. But i guess maybe it's good enough for testing your prototype and have it produced ordered.
+goognam goognws You have to consider, that he used lead-free solder. So this could be the reason why the joints dont look as good as you might expect them to be. Of course a proper reflow oven would maybe produce better results.
6:08 "Get in place there you little turd."
Favourite EEVblog moment.
Dave, I'm a newbee in electronics. So seeing a video like this is very helpful, and gives me confidence that I can build a board like you re doing. Thanks!
Just a tip for any newcomers who might be stumbling across this video, Dave mentions using the piece of copper clad under the PCBs, which is a great solution and one I've used in the past. But if you're looking for something a little more resilient, I find a thin piece of metal works even better. Personally I yank one of the panels off an old CD/DVD-ROM drive (I have dozens of the things just sitting around) and put that on top of my oven's tray. Works great, after the first few bakes the metal turns a rather interesting copper-ish color and sinks away any unnecessary heat.
Thanks, I was going to ask a question on this: now I don't have to.
Thank you for advice
You had a metal plate... the crumb tray you removed from the oven in the last Reflow video.
You're already in 2014 over there. Here in Switzerland we have 21/2 hours to go....
Many thanks for your extremely instructive videos and omnipresent sense of humor! Happy New Year to yourself and your family.
Nice! You should get a rotating polarizing filter for your camera, to be able to shoot thru glass and avoid glare and reflections.
Great video as always, Dave! The notification sound at 18:31 had my double check all my devices ;)
Nice project! I bet the uSupply project might also have an enthusiastic response, as Dave's enthusiasm catches on to all of us!
Watching this I notice everything seems to be reel based for components. Maybe it's time for a Pick and Place machine. They can be had for around $3K USD. Just drop the board in, load up the reels and away it goes.
Ya, I'm not going to get much sleep either with all these videos. LOVE IT! Thumbs up!!
That green board looks Brill.
Cool vid Dave
I agree with you John, it's got that Mil-Spec look to it. x]
Nice work Dave, I appreciated the full length shot right from snipping the boards out to the testing after.
I know I'm not the only one that needs more than 4 attempts to turn a 0603 resistor. xP
Very interesting video ,Dave.Greetings from Greece!
When I saw all the parts reflow together at the same time through the oven door, I was confident that the reflow was going to be a success.
I'm really tempted to get that reflow controller, but use it to control a small hot plate instead of an oven; lack of space you see.
Very Good Video!
Olive green and gold! A beauty! :)
Hi Dave, You can use a silicone cooking mat in the oven to insulate the boards from the support. You can buy it at any cooking store, not very expensive. Just cut it to size.
Very nice video, love doing reflow and soldering under the scope. My hobby within a hobby. :)
Can't you use the tray that sits right on top of the bottom heaters instead of the grill? Looks like it should fit and might even be indended to be used this way.
The re-flow saga continuous...
You should sell this as a new pledge level on your Kickstarter campaign! Super-rare prototype, as seen being built in EEVBlog #562!
21:16-21:22 why missing C3 C4
not needet ? or not compatible with reflowing ?
Top stuff Dave, I wish I had better eyesight but that is what happens when you get older but as a tech I get annoyed things are so tiny so I can barely work on boards now without the illuminated mag glass.
EEVblog You just made my night.... I can't sleep and this is just great to watch, YOU are awesome, keep up the good work !!!
I wonder if you got a tiny fan that could take the heat inside, and putting it in there would it help with the reflow to be more even since the air moving around the boards might not be all that fast moving.
You might be able to drill a little hole in the side, and mount an external fan if you can't get a fan that can take the heat... I don't know.
Dave I think you need one of these maybe: TM220A table top pick and place overview not the best one, but can save you some time
Should you defeat the thermostat control in the factory toaster? It is right there at the edge of the solder profile and probably not even close to accurate.
Dave you can use your HP 3457A 7.5 digits multimeter (you've done a teardown of it a long time ago). You still have that?
How can you use the oven for double sided SMD boards?
There's special glue for parts on bottom side of PCB, so when you are reflowing they won't fall off.
Yeaaaah, we're gonna need 1080p for these :)
Just so you know Xcelite is pronounced Celite (See-lite). The X is silent just like the K in Knob. The reason I know this is back in the 80's when I used to fix consumer electronics I was at one of my locale parts jobbers and the rep from Xcelite was there and I called them Xlite and was promptly corrected. 73 Lawrence, KF4HNF
Dave, that plate you took out in previous video, wouldn't it be useful to carry the boards? If you can skip the grill (wire thing) it might be better.
Excellent vid Dave, thanks. It's helped me make my mind up to finally go for a modified toaster oven. I like the kit, but also tempted to throw together my own controller, if I can manage to fit it in between the numerous other projects I've got on my list - there's just never enough time... ;-) P.S I usually don't care much for green boards either but I really really love the olive green and gold look, think it'd be a winner (or possibly offer a choice if it's not too much hassle?)
Aren't the C3 and C4 caps missing?
Even worse: The flux one is missing too.
Can you use this type of controller to just set a temperature on the oven, rather than following a profile?
When do you think the uCurrent gold boards will be available for regular purchase post kickstarter fulfillment? I don't have the money to back the kickstarter now but I'll definitely pick up a board sometime next year if that's possible.
I was thinking the same thing! Also some who are buying the Gold revision may be putting older revisions up on Ebay so hopefully there is enough units to go around...
get some polarized filter for you camera and the glare from the oven's glass will disappear. or just find some real polaroid glasses and shoot through them
you should do a video on how to create components that are etched directly into the pcb instead of using soldered on components
I was under the impression that you would have the board houses's pic-n-place machine put the parts on for you. Did you opt-out of that option?
I've promised to hand build 30 units.
Is there any modification made to the oven? or just plain oven as in original tech spec?
very nice work skip
hi , you shouldn't say your video is boring, I've just speeded you up about five times and you look like a human, pick and place machine lol lol . Seriously. Keep up the good work. I've learnt so much from your videos, I'm new to electronics just worked out how to calculate resistors values, I know, stop laughing. We all have to learn some time. My first experience with electronics was as a kid with my Tandy 150 in 1 which I loved, keep up the good work. All the best from the uk
How would you use this oven with smd parts on both sides ? Does the soldering paste hold the components upside down ?
Anyway great video !!
No they would all fall off. In manufacture they have to glue the components down for the bottom.
Dave, are you planning to get one of the HDMI microscopes you showed? It seems like it would be awesome for this sort of thing, esp for showing video :)
Yes, I'm in talks now with the manufacturer to get the latest just released model with greatly improved low light sensor and 60fps full HD
So DIY reflow oven or cheap Chinese factory QS5100 etc. ? Looking to reflow Cree LEDs to star boards.
if you dont plan on doing like >1000 of them i would use a hot air gun/station
That sound at 18.32.. Uhm, have you a Nexus 5? :)
What are those tweezers? I have a hard time finding good sharp ones
jaycar sell them,cat # sur007 or TH1760 else a belt sander works well for sharpening up generic ones.
Thanks
Dave, how would you reflow a two-sided PCB? Thanks!
Hi Dave, thanks for your video! I have the same kit and temperature issue from beta layout and was wondering if you still kept the thermo couple calibration adjustment from your previous video while using this clad board solution? Must say I love the idea of using a clad board and will surely try that as well! Thanks! Tijn
The copper clad board is not a good idea, as I said. Yes, same setting.
Where can I buy the uCURRENT devices?
dave seen someone using a fish tank pump as a pick up tool maybe it would work for you great vid thanks
Looks like dave likes the digi-reels
Did you have any issues getting parts from maxim?
Dave, have you thought of gathering some locals together and making a proper production line?
simple hand crank stand made from dowel and popsicle sticks
can be used paste solder whit BGA chips?
I love using those Xcelyte flush mount cutters to trim my toenails.
Me too! Fingernails also! I have Xuron and Plato brand, but they are the same thing. I have some little tiny Italian ones with an alignment pin in the mechanism, but they cost about $160 a pair, so no nail clipping with those.
Dave, how about auctioning this on Ebay? Might be good publicity for the Kickstarter project. Especially with it being a rare olive green version - which I have to say I *really* like - dark green and gold work well together.
I would like to buy one of these boards? Anyone have a purchase link?
EDIT** Don't worry, I found it
Where has C3 Gone?
Dave you need to step up your game and get a pick and place machine like Mike!
The mantis doesn't help you do this faster?
Not really needed for 0603 and SOT-23. I use it for inspection though.
Awesome video. Crumb tray is a metal plate, no? Suggest cut a small hole in top and small tempered glass window scrap from a glass company. Perfect viewing.
this would be excruciating to hand place all of the boards with not being able to see the parts clearly
Do green next time.
Green and Gold.
I never had much success with these DIY reflow ovens, the direct IR from the heaters seems to be the problem, lots of hot spots, impossible to ramp with any real control, I gave up and put mine in the bin, now I use a DIY hotplate and its a much better solution for small batch work, I would stay away from these DIY ovens, hot plates are much better.
Aren't you the guy, who re-flowed his plastic connectors?
ahh, it's funny to see that Dave uses the same method of flipping resistors that he's put onto the desk surface... It never works the first try, hahaha
much better result.
NIce job Dave
thanks...
couldn't you just use two pieces of wood, or some material that wouldn't degrade because of the heat, to lift the pcb from the metal bars, minimising the heat lose. or you could cut some thin metal bars to the width of the oven, and place them in such a manner that only the sides of the pcb are in contact with them. Black lines represent the contact points: i.imgur.com/rlRiGHV.jpg (picture of an older pcb)
Use your crumb tray
Son,
Back in the old days
We use sticks and stones :)
I want a green one with a green led :-)
next projekt: low budget Pick and Place maschine under 1000$ ?
American Saying for you:
ASSUME = (make an) ASS (of) U (and) ME.
Doesn't work in "arse" countries... but I can't think of which AU is.
Australia uses the word arse, however we do know the AssUMe acronym.
loved it
Dave, is it me or those solder joints look of poor quality. No shiny mirror surface, black dots on some, and no surface curves. It might work now but I would be worried about customers shipping them back to you when they start failing prematurely. My two cents would be to stop dicking around with a microcontrolled toaster oven and buy a proper high powered bench top reflow oven. But i guess maybe it's good enough for testing your prototype and have it produced ordered.
+goognam goognws You have to consider, that he used lead-free solder. So this could be the reason why the joints dont look as good as you might expect them to be. Of course a proper reflow oven would maybe produce better results.
Just a quick video 23 minutes later
1:54 puh puh puh ahhah
good videon! ;)
10 peeps are jealous
wow, must be boring
I mean it must be boring to prep all these boards one by one.
MrPolymath0 It can be rather therapeutic sometimes!
+EEVblog yep! this is an art form in my opinion!
Отвратительный голос у мужика - но видео очень познавательное )