Yes most definitely speacily when mixing it change speacily different places or depending on weather if it's to cold or to hot or climate it will most definitely be different ways to mixs .
Isaac, great job. I'm a 69 year old DIY'r that does most trades decently and in multiple remodels of my homes over 45+ years. But I'm an Engineer by training and one of "those people" that actually read and follow directions. I rely on the manufacturer knowing what they are talking about. When you are DIY, being self taught before TH-cam, I would have followed the bag instructions verbatim and been befuddled when I ended up with that unworkable mess. Also as a DIY'r I wouldn't have the luxury of having two people to mix the thin set. I really appreciate your commitment to excellence. Well done.
Fellow contractor (hardwood floor and tile). I love the way you approach this video. Your attitude, is how all professionals should approach variables and products/materials we use. This is why you're the only tile channel, that I sub to. - Beard Custom Hardwoods
Absolutely. But how many DIYers would attempt to do this for the first time and end up with an unusable product. Or even professionals who want to try to do it "by the book" one time and waste money and time. It's just a weird mistake
By feel is the way for tilers. Many do it just to get it workable. I am the "by the book" type of person. Thin-sets are design to be workable with the recommended amount of water, adding water to thinset or any cement products make a weaker product. I have a feeling this laticrete mortar is just badly engineered.
I’ve used multimax lite several times as a DIYer and TileCoach is 1000% correct. Requires SIGNIFICANTLY more water than called for to get anywhere near usable. Own up to it Laticrete!
When you call out a large company on their products, they have a tendency to fight instead of fix. They could end this problem by sending their rep to your shop and mix it in front of you, according to their instructions, and show you what you're doing wrong. They haven't done that because you're right. I'm barely a DIY'er because I only have two bathrooms to remodel, but I watch you and Sal so that I get it right. Thank you for taking the time to show us how to save time, money and frustration. To support you, I ordered materials from you this summer instead of buying everything from Floor Decor. We appreciate you.
I hope Laticrete is not providing inaccurate nor updated information on the ratio of water to any of their products. I have read comments from installers stating how they “feel” or “look” when mixing MML. To me if their was a fail they can basically claim they are not liable for failure for installer taking it upon himself to not follow their “perfected and tested “ directions. Sorry if I am a doubting Thomas.
It would appear to me that you would add some more water in order to get the right consistency. I'm a diy'er and purchased four bags of MML. My tiles are 47" x 47" (huge!). I plan to use a 3/4" notched trowel as well. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated 👍.
Yep One burnt out drill or close to it. I was a Laticrete guy. I keep using their grouts and board….Switched back to Mapei and Ardex for Thinsets. Thankful that my other supplier was not too far away. And a huge praise to this video. I thought it was me. I’m a 1 man show tiling
I find Mapei thinset too grainy, not very smooth and not as sticky for my liking. I've only tried their top of the line (large format floor & wall). I went back to Tec Ultimate 6 and its been so much better.
I find mapei pretty creamy, use the schluter for their waterproofing products and is fine. Have had issues with ardex. Have only used the sound isolation laticrete and seemed ok…though 10 years ago.
40+ years as a licensed Tile Contractor in CA and OR. You are an honest guy Isaac and I appreciate your testing videos, and so should these companies. I've agreed with you on Schluter flood testing. (So did an unnamed past president of the NTCA.) Schluter as far as I know still won't bring German liquid seam sealer for shower pans. Why? I have no answer. Keep up the great work! Don't despair. I stand by you and I've got 4 decades in the tile trade to back that up. Also, you do something very very few of us will ever admit to and that is admitting to mistakes. The solution is to swallow one's pride and fix it. You show us the value of honesty and humility like no other company, especially large company, will ever do.
@@brightpathvideo You should go to his video where he stick frames a shower bench then runs his vinyl pan up to and up about 4” on the face of the bench! So the bench is essentially outside the shower pan! On top of and on the side and face of the bench he attaches hardi backer! I cant remember exactly but I think he possibly put hydroban or redguard on top of the bench! In any event with or without hydroban or redguard, the fundamental mistake was not running the vinyl under the bench and up the walls behind the bench and, above the height of the bench! Essentially putting the bench inside the pan and not outside! Its ok if you are just building a shower to get past the 1 or 2 yr. warranty period, but, bad if you are building a shower to last for 50 yrs! I would really like some with your experience to go view that video and give your opinion on it! I to was a tile contractor and have 35+ yrs in the business! I always try to give my honest opinion based on my personal experience on videos I see on you tube that need correcting not because my ego demands it which isnt the case, but, in hopes of helping the general public understand a little better so as to make better informed educated decisions! I have no malice intended towards this guy or any other ,and, if I am wrong I will be the first to admit and correct it! I wanted to clear the air on that in case there was any doubt! I dont know the tile coach and have nothing personal against him! I just believe he himself needs a bit more education on some of his methods! Pure and simple and thats all!
You're right about the contradictions between the bag instructions and the datasheet. The company's website how-to videos show them mixing to a more loose and workable consistency. I did a complete shower remodel in the early spring of this and used all Laticrete products to do the whole job. My first job of this scope and nature.
After trying to mix that.... I'll be tired of even trying to spread that on the wall and tiles... Crazy having two people to mix a bag of thinset. Thank you for your time again Isaac.
I used this a few years ago and followed directions exactly. Way too thick I thought I had a bad bag and threw it out. Next bag was the same. Thought it was a bad batch and went with a different product. Good to hear it wasn’t me. Bad I spent all that money on two bags.
Get em brother! In all seriousness, if anyone thinks your out to make people look bad need to realize your just trying to help everyone in the tile industry, as well as dyiers. Ty for what u guys do!!!
Laticrete owes you an apology! Why doesn’t laticrete make a video to show us how they do it?!! Anyways, thank you so much for all these videos I have learned so much from you! You give away free knowledge and wisdom from over 25 years of experience! Thank you!
Thanks so much confirming this. I have spent many time reading data sheets over and over. Your are 100% correct and thanks for sharing and being leading coach.
Anyone or even a company can make mistakes. Only few of those can admit and make corrections though. Hoping they hear you and provide better instruction. Good job, Tile coach!
Isaac, as an engineer this a great video. I haven’t done much tiling work but I’ve worked with specifying cementitious products in different structural applications. There are a lot of things that can go wrong, especially when you start to push the boundaries of materials. Cutting half the weight off of a cementitious product is pretty extreme. I think you are probably correct in that they can’t add more water without hurting the strength of the mix too much based on standardized tests. Another thing to consider is that they may have been developing and testing the product with certain materials and switched suppliers or sources in production and neglected to retest. When you push the limits, even the smallest of changes can massive create problems. Even though I am using product XYZ from one supplier, and I order the “same” thing from another, it may behave entirely different. I actually read the technical data sheet and I do see they allow up to 5.4 quarts, but presumably that’s for the thin mix. However, I also got the sense they were suggesting add the mix slowly until a workable consistency, which means to me that they may be suggesting to mix based on consistency rather than volume. I’d be curious to see a video where you mix it with just the 2/3 bag where you said that’s about what you would do, and then test that against a Laticrete LHT thinset. Perhaps test a tile on a wall with each type mixed that way and see how hard it is to get it to break off. If the MML does better than LHT even mixed incorrectly, then perhaps it’s ok to use more water. If it doesn’t, then that’s the nail in the coffin that Laticrete has a major QC issue. My guess is that you are correct and probably Laticrete just needs to go back to the drawing board. They need to rework or retest the material and update. Perhaps they need to go to 30 or 33 lbs, which is still way less weight but might allow them some additional cement and thus additional water. They may need to add some water reducers or dispersants as well. Again, there is a reason why everything in the world is not light weight. It’s more expensive and the more you push the boundary, the more finicky the materials will be. Nice work!!
I’m a 10+ year tile contractor in PA/MD. I just switched to primarily ARDEX mortars and grouts and other products in the last 12 months - so far so good.
Ive been watching your channel for a couple of months now. I'm not a professional but i'd say a little above a diy'er. I've built a couple of homes and numerous remodels over the last 25 years. When i say ive built, i mean my hands have built, not a contractor. The only thing i didnt do was the AC. Anyway, I love your videos and i feel you are right and Laticrete fails to prove you wrong. I never measure the amount of water, just mix it till it feels right but now that i have seen this I will just use Mapei as in the past. Its videos like this that really help us non-pros make better decisions especially these days when every dollar counts. Also, my order from your store arrives today and im looking forward to it.
I’ve used Laticrete mortars and grouts almost exclusively now for years and have used Multimax Lite since it came out. When mixed by eye (NOWHERE NEAR the instructions on the bag) to the consistency I want for various applications, real loose for uncoupling membranes, little tighter for thick beds, its tacky as heck, has an awesome pot life time, and provides wicked bond strength. I cannot for the life of me understand why the mixing instructions on the bag are so far off. It’s the same with their new silica free cementitious grouts (permacolor and permacolor select), they claim to loosen up during the slake time but they dont do so anywhere near enough to be comfortable to trowel, and the working time goes to heck when its that tight. I really hope Laticrete gets this figured out as they’re darn good products otherwise, but I really feel for the DIY types who buy this stuff because its supposed to be top of the line, follow the instructions to a T, and get an un-usable product.
I agree I mix by eye/feel and love using laticrete products for almost everything, the bags always tell you less water i think so that it's harder to mess up and you can always add more maybe.. Either way I was taught by lots of oldheads to add water by feel slowly
You do great work here man. As a professional tile setter I have never once measures water. Learned to mix to desired consistency for the application I'm doing. We use Mapei UltraLite and I love the stuff
I literally ran into this right when I discovered your channel. I had no thought that bag percentages might off, I just assumed user error, shook my head, and mixed by feel from then on.
I've seen so many videos of you using Laticrete Thinset. Kudos to you to go back and see how well it performs and to inform us on the outcome. In so many applications this will undoubtedly work 100% percent of the time. It's those few time that it isn't the right product for the job. Do your research and choose what works best for you.
Honestly I could call every single major brand out on their mixing instructions for thinset and grout. They do all testing in a controlled lab environment and not out on a job site. Every region has a different climate. I’m in Michigan and the temperature range is from 100 down to -15 on an average year. And like California it is also very humid even when it’s cold. I have had so many issues across the board mixing to specs. I think that’s why they put for professional use on the bags honestly lol! We know what we like for workability but the DIYer doesn’t and your videos are very insightful for them. Thats another reason professionals throw out the instructions on most things lol! Been a big supporter and fan of your channel from the beginning and I have learned a lot from your insight and testing. Reps don’t like me much either because I question them on everything from experience. Keep up the awesome content and let’s hold the manufactures accountable for what they produce.
Just for transparency, and to let your viewers know that we do listen: Since the original posting of this video we've mixed over a pallet of randomly selected material from our line and from the line of our top competitors. Completed over 12+ sessions with product managers and scientists in the room. Conclusion: Fine aggregate products do not mix like traditional materials, and to get the most from the material we need to help. So - we are making some changes based on feedback from this video and deeper study of the category of fine aggregate materials. You will see changes to the datasheet first because they are electronic. There will be step-by-step sections. Then the bag art will quickly follow. This will take more time to get into the market. The final conclusion is that Most of our team and adopters of the product have learned to “mix to feel” which is suboptimal. So as I said previously - we can do better and we will. FYI - BTW, I am the President, COO of Laticrete for those who do not know me.
Thanks for the reply, and for recognizing that Tile Coach has helped improve your company. They key would be to explain how product managers and scientists came up with the wrong water volume originally - and the make sure you have processes to check these sorts of things regularly.
i guess we want to know the parameters. obviously LATICRETE's mixing instructions yield way too, not correct. in a lab setting, the scientists may think its gold. how much more water can one add /mix by feel before it significantly messes with the integrity of the mortar? i was taught to mix by feel. then going out on my own i had a job with a friend where we got platinum. he was a stickler about ratios. that job was hell. that guy and i dont work together anymore. and i now have gone back to mixing by feel. it is what works. how much would different portions of water impact integrity? say, 1 quart more than instructions. 2 quart more. how much does it impact load strength/mortar ability to stay strongly bonded/etc. mixing by the bag is a joke. a guy mixing the same bag in arizona will have a different consistency than someone in seattle during the moistest season? think with the installer in mind. different consistencies are desired. maybe lets find out at what point more water SERIOUSLY messes with integrity.
Ron, I just pulled your data sheet on 1/7/24 and there is a typo on the amount of water to use in quarts where you use a hyphen instead of a decimal point. For those wondering, they have increased the high end of the measurement from 5.0 qts to 5.4 qts. Here is the text copied directly from the data sheet: Mixing: Place clean, potable water into a clean pail. Use approximately 4-8 - 5.4 qts. (4.5 - 5.1 L) of water for 25 lbs (11.3 kg) of powder.
One thing I have learned in my years of mixing various cementitious materials is, there is a serious lack of consistency from bag to bag as far as water requirements. If the material says 5 quarts of water, and you add 5 quarts to every bag you would expect the same results. Nope! I always use the water ratio stated on the bag as a guideline, but ultimately mix the material to the desired consistency. If that means more water, then more water it is. There is a big problem with consistency in batching bagged cement materials. Good on you Isaac for pointing this out.
This isn't a batching issue. The water amount is just wrong. He hit the right consistency with 1/3 of the bag remaining. The bags may vary, but they aren't off by 1/3. The problem is that you're forced to eyeball it, so you've violated manufacturer spec. At that point the product may not perform as spec'ed and you probably have no leg to stand on if it fails.
I redid the washroom shower last year, and bought Laticrete thinset based on your recommendations and praise. I followed the directions carefully and got the result you did at start of your video. was super surprised, but figured that's how it is. the consistency was way too thick and impossible to work. we basically made our own formula to use the product, which in the end was fine, but a very frustrating start since we wanted to follow manufacturer's instructions for easy repeatability and consistency in the mix. I figure the Laticrete bosses won't budge on his instructions because it will confirm he was wrong and misleading. glad you put out this video and I always enjoy watching your content. Thanks from Canada
If you read the hydroban membrane spec sheet it doesn’t even detail a mix ratio (albeit does not specify MML), just says: “Mix the LATICRETE thin-set to a fairly wet consistency but still able to hold a notch”. They just want you to do things by feel I suppose.
I haven't used laticrete in years, but I loved laticrete platinum back then. I've also personally talked to isaac about the tile trade and many issues/products. He knows what he's doing and I haven't seen any other channel come close to being as informative and obviously trained correctly. I think if Isaac's had issues, then laticrete probably needs to revise the instructions or look into the issue further
An eye opener for me. I can't remember the last time I mixed a whole bag. I layout and cut and then measure water to what I think I can use up in 2-3 hours and add powder to a workable consistency. Never occurred to me that the stuff might be weakened at that mixture. Other companies say to get mixture such that the ridges support themselves, not till you can make a snowball and play catch. If I had to use a mass like you had there, I'd be getting out of tiling pronto. It's a hard enough job as it is.
I lay tile and I’ve disagreed with you about other things but this is 100 percent right. I had this same problem before I ever seen the first video you made about MultiMax awhile back. The water is not just a little bit off, it is wayyy off. And once you get it to where you want it, it is a fine line between good consistency and too wet. With saying that, MultiMax is one of my favorite thinsets. It’s great when you don’t follow the directions.
Also, I brought this up to my local Laticrete rep while sitting in the store talking to him one day and the conversation eventually led to me telling him about the first video you made in which he knew about, lol. He agreed with everything I was saying. This is a known thing within Laticrete.
Id interpret the instructions as to add laticrete slowly until you reach the right consistency. I.e put 5 quarts in then half a bag - mix - add more - mix etc until you have a workable consistency
I really like laticrete hydroban board but not crazy about their thinset , but no one around here sales the hydro- ban board only time I was able to get it was around Covid and I thought it was great , I hate schluter board I refuse to ever install it again I would rather use mold resistant Sheetrock than schluter , now I use go board or a membrane material Thanks for all your videos
We used to use mostly custom’s multicure almost always! I have used them all though , laticrete included! Multicure would crystallize after about a years time! It got so hard it was amazing! All good thinsets should do the same but Ya always mix so that it holds a notch! That usually starts with about 1/4 bucket of water for a whole #50 bag of thinset in a 5 gal. bucket! Water first always! Not sure what the big problem is for 1 guy to mix 1 bag of thinset ! Sorry you have to pour it into the bucket all by yourself! Just be sure you put your foot on the edge of your bucket! Once you get enough added you can jump up and stand on the bucket to finish mixing it! Just dont make a freekin mess! Saw this one guy who didnt know any of that and he ended up with thinset all over brand new wainscoting at about the height of his bucket! He wondered why the bucket kept spinning around! I hope he is still on the bus!
As a retired technical writer, I also take issue with “slowly add” being in instructions. One person’s “slowly “ is obviously too fast. How slow is slow? What is implied is a conditional statement, that should read; “While stirring, add product at a rate that immediately becomes wet. “ Unfortunately, you have also demonstrated that the ratio appears incorrect. Thank you for your great content!
Just got finished with a DIY job with large (32"x64") tiles.. Found I needed approx 8oz per pound of Multimax Lite.. I tried exactly as Ron suggested based on your first review... Didn't work out well for me either.. I feel like they have great products, hopefully the extra water doesn't change their ANSI results..
I’m going to be honest here. I bought this product on your recommendation and used it to install LHT porcelain 24 x 48 inches on my living room wall. I didn’t follow their instructions because I needed to mix small batches because I’m not a professional so I work slowly compared to you. I just started with like 1 liter and kept adding water or thinset until it was thick enough to not drip easily off the mixer. The tile never moved a single millimeter after. It’s attached to a painted wall that I sanded a bit with 80 grit and then applied Mapei eco prim grip. Again the tiles have not moved a single millimeter. So if an amateur like me can do it, everyone else should be fine mixing to the right workable consistency. Laticrete needs to fix their instructions and provide a ratio for making small batches.
Reviewing products made by large corporations can be a huge legal risk. Even when you are proven right. The lawyers fees can be so large they damage your personal financial health. That being said you and Sal are the truth. I have learned so much about working with tile and stone from your videos. Proper product selection and installation technique that you and Sal demonstrate allowed me do projects that are master tradesman quality. Tiling ceilings, large shower floors without puddles, straight flat plumb walls are all now possible now, Thanks to yours and Sal's instruction videos. Thanks for the lessons!
You can't sue somebody for their opinions or how they feel about a product. He never said it was garbage and he never told anyone not to buy it. So what exactly are you going sue him or anybody esle for?
@@frnkjones40 Using the courts to punish people and companies in the USA is known as the process being the punishment. You win by inflicting damage not by a verdict of guilt or damages. Yes law suits are filed every day, even those with out merit will go thru the legal process.
Ya, honestly we mix to the right consistency, regardless of the instructions. Having used the multimax lite many times i think it’s a great product. Had to demo a wall of tile that i used multimax lite on after of cure time of 2 days and i have never seen a more tenacious thin set like this.
Thanks 👍 . I'm using 47"×47" porcelain tiles and even one on the ceiling. I was waiting to go forward with the project, and your data has helped ease my concerns. Thx again, and God bless you 🙏
homeowner here - kudos to tile coach for reading the instructions and attempting to follow them - the contractors where i live never read any instructions - (i end up liking to do a lot of work myself and try tofollow the instructions but manufacturers instructions are often vague/insufficient and i have to watch many youtube videos)
DIYer here. I think I take pride and do great work for not being a pro. I’ve used Custom pro lite and love it. I bought this brand because I bought their uncoupling membrane. This stuff is like industrial glue. It’s great but I lost almost a bag because I followed the instructions. I normally only do half a bag at a time. The first two batches were awful. I had to add a water after the fact because it was hard to work with. I would mix per the instructions but know you will need to add more water to get the butter smooth texture. Also couch, I built a walk in shower for my elderly parents that I hope will last 20 plus years. Pre slope, before the liner, the old water in water out system. I know it’s more labor, more time but literally it’s rock solid. Please know you coached my mind through the process.
I mixed the Laticrete Platinum once based on the ratio on the package, and it ended up a watery mix. I was so sure about the manufacturer instructions that I doubt my measurement bucket was made wrong 😂
Same thing happened to me my first bag of multi max and I wasted it. I always just eye it, and usually never mix more than half a bag either, love the tri lite.
Hey Mike, thank you lots for showing us the truth. I mean you do Laticre lite max so you did a video before for the same product doing the The two membrane together and I was a good result. I was just wondering if they give you credit for that probably not but I understand every Friday do you show has to be good right? That way they get mad but I really appreciate what you doing for everybody teach us appreciate it.🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Awesome video. You could do this with one person by adding thinset to water in batches and mixing well between addions. Nevertheless, the consistency makes the product unusable. It would be interesting to see how this product would hold up under your ceiling tile test (with the buckets of water), but with different water ratios. I wonder how much water it would support.
Hi Isaac, I watched a lot of your videos and based on your recommendations of using multi max light I purchased enough multi max light to complete four showers. On my first shower, where I was using sheets of pebbles, I use multi max light as it was prescribed on the packaging. When I was getting ready to grout almost all of the stones were loose because they did not adhere to the multi XL. I had a break out everything and basically start over. It was a pain in the butt. My question is, should I mix it, so that it is usable by adding more water? 30% is probably correct in the percentage of water that you have to add over and above the mixing instructions. I was looking at some of the other comments, including one of the engineers who said that it may reduce, the strength of the mortar by adding too much water and diluting the cement. Have you ever tried to test Multimax light using more water and the bucket test? I’m wondering if I should just throw away all of my multi max light and buy something different. What do you think?
I know with drywall mud, if it’s old it a kick off ASAP. And if you’re on well water, or your water has a bunch of minerals in, it can caused it to kick off faster too. Take away, have good water without a bunch of minerals in it, and always get fresh bags to mix.
Maybe with drywall mud but Ive nvr noticed that with any thinsets or grouts I’ve ever used! Even if its a partial bag left over! What do you mix your drywall mud with? De ionized bottled water? I doubt that you do!
That's interesting. Maybe Laticrete used distilled water in the lab lol. I know if you add some vineger to plaster of paris it takes forever to setup. And the PH of tap water can vary a lot
Great video! One thing though. You don't need two people to mix with adding a little at a time. Add some powder and mix, stop mixing add some more and continue mixing. Repeat until whole bag is mixed. It's ridiculous but definitely a way to make sure it is fully hydrated solo mixing.
Isaac, you are a stand up guy and I respect what you do to educate the industry in layman real world terms. Latticrete or Ron Nash should work together with you to solve this issue. Latticrete is an excellent company and does have great products, but they obviously have an issue with this product!
This may sound crazy but I use a KitchenAid mixer instead of a drill and a bucket. The motor is plenty strong enough. The speed control is much better than what you get with a drill. The silicone edge beater mixes a LOT better than any metal drill attachment. And it mixes while I add thinset to the water so I don’t need 2 people. Downsides are that a 7 quart mixer is about $500 but I got mine used off of Marketplace for $80. The batches are smaller but if you time the troweling with the slaking you get really consistent smooth mixes. You have to move the thinset/grout/whatever out of the bowl into something else with a silicone spatula because the mixer bowl doesn’t work well with trowels. But dump some water back into the bowl and turn it back on and the whole thing is self cleaning. Last, you might end up divorced if you take the one from the kitchen but that’s on you. Seriously though, once you get used to timing the smaller batches it’s just smoother, faster, easier, and a lot less waste than using a drill.
DiYer here... im installing an entire 1st floor of wood look 8x48 ceramic plank tile. I dont believe im using the exact thinset tilecoach is using but... because im working alone, i do half the water and half the bag so it doesnt harden up on me.With great results, i use 2.5 quarts. Rip a bag of Latacrete LHT plus in half... how i mix it is, i put 80% of cold water in the bucket. 80% of powder. Mix it thoroughly. 20% powder. Mix that a little and add the 20% of the water on top. Mix it for about 7 to 8 minutes. Come out great all the time. I think the problem here is how he's distributing the water... not saying he's wrong because he's clearly mixing per instructions on the bag. Hope this helps someone!
I'm willing the bet their quality control on the amount they place in the bag varies. If you could weigh the bag to make sure it weighs what the bag states to make sure you're mixing the right amount of product with the water.
I just did what you said in a few video's back. I mixed in about 6 quarts of water yo 6.5 to get the mix consistency right. I wil say that even though its not a smooth and creamy as MML , I prefer mapei.
If Laticrete Multimax Lite is mixed with more water to result in a typical thinset consistency, is the Multimax Lite still a good choice for membranes and tiles? Prior videos of yours and videos of others show that this Multimax Lite can have a workable consistency with more water.
What thinset would you recommend for me to use. I been watching you for a long time and I been using all the products you recommend in the past, so I would like to know now what you use or recommend for the same tile size 12 x 24. I would appreciate your input in what to use THANKS ……
I used sal's video about mortar.. Used TEC and Tile-redi pan. Before you were a Tile-redi guy. Saw all the fails in the corners, curbs and at the drain in your videos.
I’m going to be honest here. I bought this product on your recommendation and used it to install LHT porcelain 24 x 48 inches on my living room wall. I didn’t follow their instructions because I needed to mix small batches because I’m not a professional so I work slowly. I just started with like 1 liter and kept adding water or thinset until it was thick enough to not fall off the mixer. The tile never moved a single millimeter after. It’s attached to a painted wall that I sanded a bit with 80 grit and then applied Mapei eco prim grip. Again the tiles have not moved a single millimeter.
A failure would show as cracks in the grout and possibly tiles coming away from the wall. I mix in smaller batches like you, since I cut and layout as I go. I have tiled many jobs over 15 yrs have never had a call back for thinset failure. I'm curious about the idea of it being weakened by over water, but my intuition is that their specs are overkill. Almost everyone mixes to consistency, not to printed measurements. If it was failing, the whole tile industry would know.
@@markoshun And that's perfectly fine, but then the manufacturer should say that and stand behind that method! But most of the time what manufacturers say is that all of their products have to be installed exactly according to published directions or else they will not warranty that the product meets the testing criteria. If the product is unusable when following the published directions, then that obviously puts any installer who does use it in a bit of a legal bind.
@@Anytus2007 Yes, I agree. It sounds like Laticrete is building in deniability. I was responding here to DIYer with concerns and it’s very likely just fine. In my case, if there was a failure I’d be the one fixing it anyway, so my track record is what I’m going by more than anything else. Do you know if there is a thinset company that doesn’t do bogus directions? I never mix whole bags, and have never computed exact ratios.
@@markoshun I have mostly used Mapei, Custom, and Schluter thinsets and I have never had a major issue. I also rarely mix a full bag, but I do use a scale and compute the exact amount of water to add for the weight of powder according to the minimum amount printed for a full bag. If it's a little too stiff, I add water up to about the maximum printed ratio, but then I stop. I've had to deal with the mix still being stiffer than I'd like a few times, but I just deal with it because I can't really afford to end up liable for a failed installation. I've never had it be like this playdoh; that just wouldn't work.
@@Anytus2007 Right, thanks. I’ve never had a failure either.. and have never used a scale or followed exact ratios. It’s cement, it always sets solid and it’s better mixed to a workable consistency. But that’s just me. If I’m hanging on a ceiling, I mix thicker, on the floor a little looser. I could be wrong, but on a warranty failure of thinset they are just going to give you a free bag anyway, not pay to redo the tile job.. and how would they determine the mix after the fact?
As a DIY-er for many years, I came to use those mix ratios as nothing more than a reference. In my experience, they somehow turn out unworkable more often than not. Part of the reason might be the differences in tap water composition/hardness/salts, causing significant variations in the initial mixture consistency and viscosity. The first time I learned it the hard way was with a self-leveling mix. Used very cold water at the top of the ratio and still got a mix that not only wouldn't flow - it would simply sit as a blob of clay, not even trying to begin moving.
I find that a spiral whip works best for multimax lite. I've never gotten good results with a egg beater style. It's good thinset when you get it mixed correctly, but the inconsistency that I get when mixing and the short pot life makes me keep it in the shop. I typically add 4 quarts of water, add 25% of the bag of powder, mix it till soupy, add 25% powder, mix till soupy, add the last quart of water and 25% powder, mix, then add the rest of the bag and mix.
The easiest thing for Laticrete to do is have one of their Reps stop by your shop and record them showing you the “right” way, and see what happens 👍
100%
I REEEEEALY hope they do!!!!! I would LOVE to see that video!!!!!
Yes most definitely speacily when mixing it change speacily different places or depending on weather if it's to cold or to hot or climate it will most definitely be different ways to mixs .
This.
EXACTLY
Isaac, great job. I'm a 69 year old DIY'r that does most trades decently and in multiple remodels of my homes over 45+ years. But I'm an Engineer by training and one of "those people" that actually read and follow directions. I rely on the manufacturer knowing what they are talking about. When you are DIY, being self taught before TH-cam, I would have followed the bag instructions verbatim and been befuddled when I ended up with that unworkable mess. Also as a DIY'r I wouldn't have the luxury of having two people to mix the thin set. I really appreciate your commitment to excellence. Well done.
Fellow contractor (hardwood floor and tile). I love the way you approach this video. Your attitude, is how all professionals should approach variables and products/materials we use. This is why you're the only tile channel, that I sub to. - Beard Custom Hardwoods
I appreciate that!
I always mix by feel. And always do no matter the brand or type depending on the application. Right or wrong. Been doing it the same way for 26 years.
Absolutely. But how many DIYers would attempt to do this for the first time and end up with an unusable product. Or even professionals who want to try to do it "by the book" one time and waste money and time. It's just a weird mistake
By feel is the way for tilers. Many do it just to get it workable. I am the "by the book" type of person. Thin-sets are design to be workable with the recommended amount of water, adding water to thinset or any cement products make a weaker product. I have a feeling this laticrete mortar is just badly engineered.
It's not badly engineered. It just requires more water. During the initial mix. A little common sense goes along way. @@Ilovebanjos
I’ve used multimax lite several times as a DIYer and TileCoach is 1000% correct. Requires SIGNIFICANTLY more water than called for to get anywhere near usable. Own up to it Laticrete!
Same. Totally agree.
Laticrete needs to take the L here. Using the product as directed looks like an absolutely miserable experience.
Yup - totally agree.
Thank you for testing all this products out and telling the truth what you see. People like you make the world a better place. God Bless.
I love these videos. Your demonstrations speak for themselves. Well done.
Thank you very much!
You sir are a man among men. Thank you for being who you are. We love you, and we love being your "students".
A man among men? I don’t think that’s the saying bud 😂
@ I encourage you to Google “what does it mean to be a man among men?” - I meant that. A man knows what it means.
@@carguy1312I stand corrected
When you call out a large company on their products, they have a tendency to fight instead of fix. They could end this problem by sending their rep to your shop and mix it in front of you, according to their instructions, and show you what you're doing wrong. They haven't done that because you're right. I'm barely a DIY'er because I only have two bathrooms to remodel, but I watch you and Sal so that I get it right. Thank you for taking the time to show us how to save time, money and frustration. To support you, I ordered materials from you this summer instead of buying everything from Floor Decor. We appreciate you.
Youre welcome
I hope Laticrete is not providing inaccurate nor updated information on the ratio of water to any of their products. I have read comments from installers stating how they “feel” or “look” when mixing MML. To me if their was a fail they can basically claim they are not liable for failure for installer taking it upon himself to not follow their “perfected and tested “ directions. Sorry if I am a doubting Thomas.
It would appear to me that you would add some more water in order to get the right consistency. I'm a diy'er and purchased four bags of MML. My tiles are 47" x 47" (huge!). I plan to use a 3/4" notched trowel as well. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated 👍.
Yep One burnt out drill or close to it. I was a Laticrete guy. I keep using their grouts and board….Switched back to Mapei and Ardex for Thinsets. Thankful that my other supplier was not too far away. And a huge praise to this video. I thought it was me. I’m a 1 man show tiling
I find Mapei thinset too grainy, not very smooth and not as sticky for my liking. I've only tried their top of the line (large format floor & wall). I went back to Tec Ultimate 6 and its been so much better.
@@Pepe-dq2ib I only have 4 brands locally here. Laticrete(not anymore for me) , Mapei , Ardex, and Schluter. I tend to use a lot of Ardex X5 now
Same with exception of I'm also a big fan of Schluter
I find mapei pretty creamy, use the schluter for their waterproofing products and is fine. Have had issues with ardex. Have only used the sound isolation laticrete and seemed ok…though 10 years ago.
Dude, I trust you over the rep. True life applications and experience. You're name is GOOD Brother!!!
40+ years as a licensed Tile Contractor in CA and OR. You are an honest guy Isaac and I appreciate your testing videos, and so should these companies. I've agreed with you on Schluter flood testing. (So did an unnamed past president of the NTCA.) Schluter as far as I know still won't bring German liquid seam sealer for shower pans. Why? I have no answer. Keep up the great work! Don't despair. I stand by you and I've got 4 decades in the tile trade to back that up. Also, you do something very very few of us will ever admit to and that is admitting to mistakes. The solution is to swallow one's pride and fix it. You show us the value of honesty and humility like no other company, especially large company, will ever do.
@@brightpathvideo You should go to his video where he stick frames a shower bench then runs his vinyl pan up to and up about 4” on the face of the bench! So the bench is essentially outside the shower pan! On top of and on the side and face of the bench he attaches hardi backer! I cant remember exactly but I think he possibly put hydroban or redguard on top of the bench! In any event with or without hydroban or redguard, the fundamental mistake was not running the vinyl under the bench and up the walls behind the bench and, above the height of the bench! Essentially putting the bench inside the pan and not outside! Its ok if you are just building a shower to get past the 1 or 2 yr. warranty period, but, bad if you are building a shower to last for 50 yrs! I would really like some with your experience to go view that video and give your opinion on it! I to was a tile contractor and have 35+ yrs in the business! I always try to give my honest opinion based on my personal experience on videos I see on you tube that need correcting not because my ego demands it which isnt the case, but, in hopes of helping the general public understand a little better so as to make better informed educated decisions! I have no malice intended towards this guy or any other ,and, if I am wrong I will be the first to admit and correct it! I wanted to clear the air on that in case there was any doubt! I dont know the tile coach and have nothing personal against him! I just believe he himself needs a bit more education on some of his methods! Pure and simple and thats all!
Nothing but Respect to you brother!
Wow, a great video, Coach. You are a great guy and help for us DIYers. There's no substitute for experience!! 💪💪
You're right about the contradictions between the bag instructions and the datasheet. The company's website how-to videos show them mixing to a more loose and workable consistency. I did a complete shower remodel in the early spring of this and used all Laticrete products to do the whole job. My first job of this scope and nature.
Thank you Issac. Love your content and what you do to help us out in the community.
I've watched a lot of your videos, after this one I'm now subscribed!
After trying to mix that.... I'll be tired of even trying to spread that on the wall and tiles... Crazy having two people to mix a bag of thinset.
Thank you for your time again Isaac.
this is why i watch your content, nice work.
I used this a few years ago and followed directions exactly. Way too thick I thought I had a bad bag and threw it out. Next bag was the same. Thought it was a bad batch and went with a different product. Good to hear it wasn’t me. Bad I spent all that money on two bags.
Get em brother! In all seriousness, if anyone thinks your out to make people look bad need to realize your just trying to help everyone in the tile industry, as well as dyiers. Ty for what u guys do!!!
Laticrete owes you an apology! Why doesn’t laticrete make a video to show us how they do it?!! Anyways, thank you so much for all these videos I have learned so much from you! You give away free knowledge and wisdom from over 25 years of experience! Thank you!
Thanks so much confirming this. I have spent many time reading data sheets over and over. Your are 100% correct and thanks for sharing and being leading coach.
The struggle is real coach… thank you!
AllSet made life easy for me. Ridgid mixer really upped my game too, and use it for small stucco and small concrete projects too.
Anyone or even a company can make mistakes. Only few of those can admit and make corrections though. Hoping they hear you and provide better instruction. Good job, Tile coach!
@SomeDumUsrName😢
Isaac, as an engineer this a great video. I haven’t done much tiling work but I’ve worked with specifying cementitious products in different structural applications.
There are a lot of things that can go wrong, especially when you start to push the boundaries of materials. Cutting half the weight off of a cementitious product is pretty extreme. I think you are probably correct in that they can’t add more water without hurting the strength of the mix too much based on standardized tests.
Another thing to consider is that they may have been developing and testing the product with certain materials and switched suppliers or sources in production and neglected to retest. When you push the limits, even the smallest of changes can massive create problems. Even though I am using product XYZ from one supplier, and I order the “same” thing from another, it may behave entirely different.
I actually read the technical data sheet and I do see they allow up to 5.4 quarts, but presumably that’s for the thin mix. However, I also got the sense they were suggesting add the mix slowly until a workable consistency, which means to me that they may be suggesting to mix based on consistency rather than volume.
I’d be curious to see a video where you mix it with just the 2/3 bag where you said that’s about what you would do, and then test that against a Laticrete LHT thinset. Perhaps test a tile on a wall with each type mixed that way and see how hard it is to get it to break off.
If the MML does better than LHT even mixed incorrectly, then perhaps it’s ok to use more water. If it doesn’t, then that’s the nail in the coffin that Laticrete has a major QC issue.
My guess is that you are correct and probably Laticrete just needs to go back to the drawing board. They need to rework or retest the material and update. Perhaps they need to go to 30 or 33 lbs, which is still way less weight but might allow them some additional cement and thus additional water. They may need to add some water reducers or dispersants as well.
Again, there is a reason why everything in the world is not light weight. It’s more expensive and the more you push the boundary, the more finicky the materials will be.
Nice work!!
I’m a 10+ year tile contractor in PA/MD. I just switched to primarily ARDEX mortars and grouts and other products in the last 12 months - so far so good.
Ive been watching your channel for a couple of months now. I'm not a professional but i'd say a little above a diy'er. I've built a couple of homes and numerous remodels over the last 25 years. When i say ive built, i mean my hands have built, not a contractor. The only thing i didnt do was the AC. Anyway, I love your videos and i feel you are right and Laticrete fails to prove you wrong. I never measure the amount of water, just mix it till it feels right but now that i have seen this I will just use Mapei as in the past.
Its videos like this that really help us non-pros make better decisions especially these days when every dollar counts. Also, my order from your store arrives today and im looking forward to it.
I don’t use multi max light unless it’s for a ceiling, but Lacree LHT is my go to mortar. I’ve had good success with it and it cleans up wonderfully.
I think it’s time for Ron Nash to actually mix a bag of each one of Laticrete’s thinsets
XD best comment. I wanna see him mix 1 bag XD ahahahahahahahahahaha
I’ve used Laticrete mortars and grouts almost exclusively now for years and have used Multimax Lite since it came out. When mixed by eye (NOWHERE NEAR the instructions on the bag) to the consistency I want for various applications, real loose for uncoupling membranes, little tighter for thick beds, its tacky as heck, has an awesome pot life time, and provides wicked bond strength. I cannot for the life of me understand why the mixing instructions on the bag are so far off. It’s the same with their new silica free cementitious grouts (permacolor and permacolor select), they claim to loosen up during the slake time but they dont do so anywhere near enough to be comfortable to trowel, and the working time goes to heck when its that tight. I really hope Laticrete gets this figured out as they’re darn good products otherwise, but I really feel for the DIY types who buy this stuff because its supposed to be top of the line, follow the instructions to a T, and get an un-usable product.
I agree I mix by eye/feel and love using laticrete products for almost everything, the bags always tell you less water i think so that it's harder to mess up and you can always add more maybe.. Either way I was taught by lots of oldheads to add water by feel slowly
Agree. Laticrete grout is unmatched in my opinion.
Totally agree about the Permacolor Select.. I used the non sanded and mixed by their instructions left it basically like silly putty...
Completely agree. Been using it the last 4 or 5 years. Exclusively. It’s killer thinset.
Their grout works great but their directions are way off. Are they just purposely giving faulty directions so they always have an out for liability?
You do great work here man. As a professional tile setter I have never once measures water. Learned to mix to desired consistency for the application I'm doing. We use Mapei UltraLite and I love the stuff
I literally ran into this right when I discovered your channel. I had no thought that bag percentages might off, I just assumed user error, shook my head, and mixed by feel from then on.
I've seen so many videos of you using Laticrete Thinset. Kudos to you to go back and see how well it performs and to inform us on the outcome. In so many applications this will undoubtedly work 100% percent of the time. It's those few time that it isn't the right product for the job. Do your research and choose what works best for you.
Honestly I could call every single major brand out on their mixing instructions for thinset and grout. They do all testing in a controlled lab environment and not out on a job site. Every region has a different climate. I’m in Michigan and the temperature range is from 100 down to -15 on an average year. And like California it is also very humid even when it’s cold. I have had so many issues across the board mixing to specs. I think that’s why they put for professional use on the bags honestly lol! We know what we like for workability but the DIYer doesn’t and your videos are very insightful for them. Thats another reason professionals throw out the instructions on most things lol! Been a big supporter and fan of your channel from the beginning and I have learned a lot from your insight and testing. Reps don’t like me much either because I question them on everything from experience. Keep up the awesome content and let’s hold the manufactures accountable for what they produce.
Thank you. I haven;t had this problem with other companies (customs, Keisel, etc) when following the mixing instructions
That’s why I love Prolite! I love peanut butter and that’s what the directions tell me. 😂 three to one mixture is also really easy to follow
ProLite is the bomb.
Just for transparency, and to let your viewers know that we do listen:
Since the original posting of this video we've mixed over a pallet of randomly selected material from our line and from the line of our top competitors.
Completed over 12+ sessions with product managers and scientists in the room.
Conclusion:
Fine aggregate products do not mix like traditional materials, and to get the most from the material we need to help.
So - we are making some changes based on feedback from this video and deeper study of the category of fine aggregate materials.
You will see changes to the datasheet first because they are electronic.
There will be step-by-step sections.
Then the bag art will quickly follow. This will take more time to get into the market.
The final conclusion is that Most of our team and adopters of the product have learned to “mix to feel” which is suboptimal.
So as I said previously - we can do better and we will.
FYI - BTW, I am the President, COO of Laticrete for those who do not know me.
Thanks for the reply, and for recognizing that Tile Coach has helped improve your company. They key would be to explain how product managers and scientists came up with the wrong water volume originally - and the make sure you have processes to check these sorts of things regularly.
i guess we want to know the parameters. obviously LATICRETE's mixing instructions yield way too, not correct. in a lab setting, the scientists may think its gold.
how much more water can one add /mix by feel before it significantly messes with the integrity of the mortar?
i was taught to mix by feel. then going out on my own i had a job with a friend where we got platinum. he was a stickler about ratios. that job was hell. that guy and i dont work together anymore. and i now have gone back to mixing by feel.
it is what works. how much would different portions of water impact integrity?
say, 1 quart more than instructions. 2 quart more. how much does it impact load strength/mortar ability to stay strongly bonded/etc.
mixing by the bag is a joke. a guy mixing the same bag in arizona will have a different consistency than someone in seattle during the moistest season?
think with the installer in mind. different consistencies are desired. maybe lets find out at what point more water SERIOUSLY messes with integrity.
Ron, I just pulled your data sheet on 1/7/24 and there is a typo on the amount of water to use in quarts where you use a hyphen instead of a decimal point.
For those wondering, they have increased the high end of the measurement from 5.0 qts to 5.4 qts.
Here is the text copied directly from the data sheet: Mixing: Place clean, potable water into a clean pail.
Use approximately 4-8 - 5.4 qts. (4.5 - 5.1 L) of water for
25 lbs (11.3 kg) of powder.
@@TheRumpleThump Thanks! Will correct now.
GREAT BECAUSE I LOVE YOUR PRODUCTS, THANKS FOR THE TRANSPARENCY
This was a very enlightening video, thank you!
Really glad that I saw this video
One thing I have learned in my years of mixing various cementitious materials is, there is a serious lack of consistency from bag to bag as far as water requirements. If the material says 5 quarts of water, and you add 5 quarts to every bag you would expect the same results. Nope! I always use the water ratio stated on the bag as a guideline, but ultimately mix the material to the desired consistency. If that means more water, then more water it is. There is a big problem with consistency in batching bagged cement materials. Good on you Isaac for pointing this out.
This isn't a batching issue. The water amount is just wrong. He hit the right consistency with 1/3 of the bag remaining. The bags may vary, but they aren't off by 1/3.
The problem is that you're forced to eyeball it, so you've violated manufacturer spec. At that point the product may not perform as spec'ed and you probably have no leg to stand on if it fails.
What a workout 😂😂😂
Love this video 👍👍👍
I redid the washroom shower last year, and bought Laticrete thinset based on your recommendations and praise.
I followed the directions carefully and got the result you did at start of your video. was super surprised, but figured that's how it is.
the consistency was way too thick and impossible to work. we basically made our own formula to use the product, which in the end was fine, but a very frustrating start since we wanted to follow manufacturer's instructions for easy repeatability and consistency in the mix.
I figure the Laticrete bosses won't budge on his instructions because it will confirm he was wrong and misleading.
glad you put out this video and I always enjoy watching your content.
Thanks from Canada
It’s exactly what you said, they must specify that water amount in the mixing instructions to meet ANCI requirements.
If you read the hydroban membrane spec sheet it doesn’t even detail a mix ratio (albeit does not specify MML), just says: “Mix the LATICRETE thin-set to a fairly wet consistency but still able to hold a notch”. They just want you to do things by feel I suppose.
I haven't used laticrete in years, but I loved laticrete platinum back then.
I've also personally talked to isaac about the tile trade and many issues/products. He knows what he's doing and I haven't seen any other channel come close to being as informative and obviously trained correctly.
I think if Isaac's had issues, then laticrete probably needs to revise the instructions or look into the issue further
Hope you are doing well Corey!
An eye opener for me. I can't remember the last time I mixed a whole bag. I layout and cut and then measure water to what I think I can use up in 2-3 hours and add powder to a workable consistency.
Never occurred to me that the stuff might be weakened at that mixture. Other companies say to get mixture such that the ridges support themselves, not till you can make a snowball and play catch.
If I had to use a mass like you had there, I'd be getting out of tiling pronto. It's a hard enough job as it is.
Superior LFT is what I use and I love it
nice T-shirt 🤘
Best shower valve so far , could you do video please
I lay tile and I’ve disagreed with you about other things but this is 100 percent right. I had this same problem before I ever seen the first video you made about MultiMax awhile back. The water is not just a little bit off, it is wayyy off. And once you get it to where you want it, it is a fine line between good consistency and too wet. With saying that, MultiMax is one of my favorite thinsets. It’s great when you don’t follow the directions.
Also, I brought this up to my local Laticrete rep while sitting in the store talking to him one day and the conversation eventually led to me telling him about the first video you made in which he knew about, lol. He agreed with everything I was saying. This is a known thing within Laticrete.
Id interpret the instructions as to add laticrete slowly until you reach the right consistency. I.e put 5 quarts in then half a bag - mix - add more - mix etc until you have a workable consistency
I really like laticrete hydroban board but not crazy about their thinset , but no one around here sales the hydro- ban board only time I was able to get it was around Covid and I thought it was great , I hate schluter board I refuse to ever install it again I would rather use mold resistant Sheetrock than schluter , now I use go board or a membrane material
Thanks for all your videos
We used to use mostly custom’s multicure almost always! I have used them all though , laticrete included! Multicure would crystallize after about a years time! It got so hard it was amazing! All good thinsets should do the same but Ya always mix so that it holds a notch! That usually starts with about 1/4 bucket of water for a whole #50 bag of thinset in a 5 gal. bucket! Water first always! Not sure what the big problem is for 1 guy to mix 1 bag of thinset ! Sorry you have to pour it into the bucket all by yourself! Just be sure you put your foot on the edge of your bucket! Once you get enough added you can jump up and stand on the bucket to finish mixing it! Just dont make a freekin mess! Saw this one guy who didnt know any of that and he ended up with thinset all over brand new wainscoting at about the height of his bucket! He wondered why the bucket kept spinning around! I hope he is still on the bus!
As a retired technical writer, I also take issue with “slowly add” being in instructions. One person’s “slowly “ is obviously too fast. How slow is slow? What is implied is a conditional statement, that should read;
“While stirring, add product at a rate that immediately becomes wet. “
Unfortunately, you have also demonstrated that the ratio appears incorrect.
Thank you for your great content!
Just got finished with a DIY job with large (32"x64") tiles.. Found I needed approx 8oz per pound of Multimax Lite.. I tried exactly as Ron suggested based on your first review... Didn't work out well for me either.. I feel like they have great products, hopefully the extra water doesn't change their ANSI results..
Hi Isaac great video. What lft thinset do you recommend now a days? Thanks
I’m going to be honest here. I bought this product on your recommendation and used it to install LHT porcelain 24 x 48 inches on my living room wall. I didn’t follow their instructions because I needed to mix small batches because I’m not a professional so I work slowly compared to you. I just started with like 1 liter and kept adding water or thinset until it was thick enough to not drip easily off the mixer. The tile never moved a single millimeter after. It’s attached to a painted wall that I sanded a bit with 80 grit and then applied Mapei eco prim grip. Again the tiles have not moved a single millimeter. So if an amateur like me can do it, everyone else should be fine mixing to the right workable consistency. Laticrete needs to fix their instructions and provide a ratio for making small batches.
Reviewing products made by large corporations can be a huge legal risk. Even when you are proven right. The lawyers fees can be so large they damage your personal financial health. That being said you and Sal are the truth. I have learned so much about working with tile and stone from your videos. Proper product selection and installation technique that you and Sal demonstrate allowed me do projects that are master tradesman quality. Tiling ceilings, large shower floors without puddles, straight flat plumb walls are all now possible now, Thanks to yours and Sal's instruction videos. Thanks for the lessons!
You can't sue somebody for their opinions or how they feel about a product. He never said it was garbage and he never told anyone not to buy it. So what exactly are you going sue him or anybody esle for?
@@frnkjones40 Using the courts to punish people and companies in the USA is known as the process being the punishment. You win by inflicting damage not by a verdict of guilt or damages. Yes law suits are filed every day, even those with out merit will go thru the legal process.
@@frnkjones40 You can sue for almost any reason. What you can't necessarily do is win the suit, but it might still be costly.
Ya, honestly we mix to the right consistency, regardless of the instructions. Having used the multimax lite many times i think it’s a great product. Had to demo a wall of tile that i used multimax lite on after of cure time of 2 days and i have never seen a more tenacious thin set like this.
Thanks 👍 . I'm using 47"×47" porcelain tiles and even one on the ceiling. I was waiting to go forward with the project, and your data has helped ease my concerns. Thx again, and God bless you 🙏
homeowner here - kudos to tile coach for reading the instructions and attempting to follow them - the contractors where i live never read any instructions - (i end up liking to do a lot of work myself and try tofollow the instructions but manufacturers instructions are often vague/insufficient and i have to watch many youtube videos)
Looks like I'll go with Ardex X5 or X77 for my DIY project. But I'll still stick with Spectralock Pro for the epoxy grout.
Dude, you’re the best!
DIYer here. I think I take pride and do great work for not being a pro. I’ve used Custom pro lite and love it. I bought this brand because I bought their uncoupling membrane. This stuff is like industrial glue. It’s great but I lost almost a bag because I followed the instructions. I normally only do half a bag at a time. The first two batches were awful. I had to add a water after the fact because it was hard to work with. I would mix per the instructions but know you will need to add more water to get the butter smooth texture. Also couch, I built a walk in shower for my elderly parents that I hope will last 20 plus years. Pre slope, before the liner, the old water in water out system. I know it’s more labor, more time but literally it’s rock solid. Please know you coached my mind through the process.
I mixed the Laticrete Platinum once based on the ratio on the package, and it ended up a watery mix. I was so sure about the manufacturer instructions that I doubt my measurement bucket was made wrong 😂
Same thing happened to me my first bag of multi max and I wasted it. I always just eye it, and usually never mix more than half a bag either, love the tri lite.
Tri lite is kind of similar but it doesn't require as much extra water as multimax
I used mapei before and will go back to it
Hey Mike, thank you lots for showing us the truth. I mean you do Laticre lite max so you did a video before for the same product doing the The two membrane together and I was a good result. I was just wondering if they give you credit for that probably not but I understand every Friday do you show has to be good right? That way they get mad but I really appreciate what you doing for everybody teach us appreciate it.🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Awesome video. You could do this with one person by adding thinset to water in batches and mixing well between addions. Nevertheless, the consistency makes the product unusable. It would be interesting to see how this product would hold up under your ceiling tile test (with the buckets of water), but with different water ratios. I wonder how much water it would support.
Hi Isaac,
I watched a lot of your videos and based on your recommendations of using multi max light I purchased enough multi max light to complete four showers.
On my first shower, where I was using sheets of pebbles, I use multi max light as it was prescribed on the packaging.
When I was getting ready to grout almost all of the stones were loose because they did not adhere to the multi XL. I had a break out everything and basically start over. It was a pain in the butt.
My question is, should I mix it, so that it is usable by adding more water? 30% is probably correct in the percentage of water that you have to add over and above the mixing instructions. I was looking at some of the other comments, including one of the engineers who said that it may reduce, the strength of the mortar by adding too much water and diluting the cement. Have you ever tried to test Multimax light using more water and the bucket test? I’m wondering if I should just throw away all of my multi max light and buy something different. What do you think?
I know with drywall mud, if it’s old it a kick off ASAP. And if you’re on well water, or your water has a bunch of minerals in, it can caused it to kick off faster too.
Take away, have good water without a bunch of minerals in it, and always get fresh bags to mix.
Maybe with drywall mud but Ive nvr noticed that with any thinsets or grouts I’ve ever used! Even if its a partial bag left over! What do you mix your drywall mud with? De ionized bottled water? I doubt that you do!
That's interesting. Maybe Laticrete used distilled water in the lab lol. I know if you add some vineger to plaster of paris it takes forever to setup. And the PH of tap water can vary a lot
Great video! One thing though. You don't need two people to mix with adding a little at a time. Add some powder and mix, stop mixing add some more and continue mixing. Repeat until whole bag is mixed. It's ridiculous but definitely a way to make sure it is fully hydrated solo mixing.
which is fine, as long as you stop at 2/3s of a bag and don't add any more to the bucket.
You have to use pure glacier water form the arctic tundra blessed by a Tibetan monk. Then and only then will it become thin set mortar.
I knew that was it! I just quit using desani and will try that!
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Isaac, you are a stand up guy and I respect what you do to educate the industry in layman real world terms. Latticrete or Ron Nash should work together with you to solve this issue. Latticrete is an excellent company and does have great products, but they obviously have an issue with this product!
This may sound crazy but I use a KitchenAid mixer instead of a drill and a bucket. The motor is plenty strong enough. The speed control is much better than what you get with a drill. The silicone edge beater mixes a LOT better than any metal drill attachment. And it mixes while I add thinset to the water so I don’t need 2 people. Downsides are that a 7 quart mixer is about $500 but I got mine used off of Marketplace for $80. The batches are smaller but if you time the troweling with the slaking you get really consistent smooth mixes. You have to move the thinset/grout/whatever out of the bowl into something else with a silicone spatula because the mixer bowl doesn’t work well with trowels. But dump some water back into the bowl and turn it back on and the whole thing is self cleaning. Last, you might end up divorced if you take the one from the kitchen but that’s on you. Seriously though, once you get used to timing the smaller batches it’s just smoother, faster, easier, and a lot less waste than using a drill.
Great wisdom
DiYer here... im installing an entire 1st floor of wood look 8x48 ceramic plank tile. I dont believe im using the exact thinset tilecoach is using but... because im working alone, i do half the water and half the bag so it doesnt harden up on me.With great results, i use 2.5 quarts. Rip a bag of Latacrete LHT plus in half... how i mix it is, i put 80% of cold water in the bucket. 80% of powder. Mix it thoroughly. 20% powder. Mix that a little and add the 20% of the water on top. Mix it for about 7 to 8 minutes. Come out great all the time. I think the problem here is how he's distributing the water... not saying he's wrong because he's clearly mixing per instructions on the bag. Hope this helps someone!
looks like the correct consistency to use as modeling clay if you wanted a plaster sculpture or something.
I’ve been a tile guy since 1999 and I will say I have also added more water than what laticrete ever called for over the years.
Great vid. That’s why we use megalite baby. Woohoo
I'm willing the bet their quality control on the amount they place in the bag varies. If you could weigh the bag to make sure it weighs what the bag states to make sure you're mixing the right amount of product with the water.
Jimmy Doore would say: "Looks like we have a reader here".
I just did what you said in a few video's back. I mixed in about 6 quarts of water yo 6.5 to get the mix consistency right. I wil say that even though its not a smooth and creamy as MML , I prefer mapei.
If Laticrete Multimax Lite is mixed with more water to result in a typical thinset consistency, is the Multimax Lite still a good choice for membranes and tiles? Prior videos of yours and videos of others show that this Multimax Lite can have a workable consistency with more water.
Today i learned people actually read the instructions on the back, anyone else just eyeball it like me?
What thinset would you recommend for me to use. I been watching you for a long time and I been using all the products you recommend in the past, so I would like to know now what you use or recommend for the same tile size 12 x 24. I would appreciate your input in what to use THANKS ……
I used sal's video about mortar.. Used TEC and Tile-redi pan. Before you were a Tile-redi guy. Saw all the fails in the corners, curbs and at the drain in your videos.
I’m going to be honest here. I bought this product on your recommendation and used it to install LHT porcelain 24 x 48 inches on my living room wall. I didn’t follow their instructions because I needed to mix small batches because I’m not a professional so I work slowly. I just started with like 1 liter and kept adding water or thinset until it was thick enough to not fall off the mixer. The tile never moved a single millimeter after. It’s attached to a painted wall that I sanded a bit with 80 grit and then applied Mapei eco prim grip. Again the tiles have not moved a single millimeter.
A failure would show as cracks in the grout and possibly tiles coming away from the wall. I mix in smaller batches like you, since I cut and layout as I go. I have tiled many jobs over 15 yrs have never had a call back for thinset failure.
I'm curious about the idea of it being weakened by over water, but my intuition is that their specs are overkill. Almost everyone mixes to consistency, not to printed measurements. If it was failing, the whole tile industry would know.
@@markoshun And that's perfectly fine, but then the manufacturer should say that and stand behind that method!
But most of the time what manufacturers say is that all of their products have to be installed exactly according to published directions or else they will not warranty that the product meets the testing criteria. If the product is unusable when following the published directions, then that obviously puts any installer who does use it in a bit of a legal bind.
@@Anytus2007 Yes, I agree. It sounds like Laticrete is building in deniability. I was responding here to DIYer with concerns and it’s very likely just fine.
In my case, if there was a failure I’d be the one fixing it anyway, so my track record is what I’m going by more than anything else.
Do you know if there is a thinset company that doesn’t do bogus directions? I never mix whole bags, and have never computed exact ratios.
@@markoshun I have mostly used Mapei, Custom, and Schluter thinsets and I have never had a major issue. I also rarely mix a full bag, but I do use a scale and compute the exact amount of water to add for the weight of powder according to the minimum amount printed for a full bag. If it's a little too stiff, I add water up to about the maximum printed ratio, but then I stop.
I've had to deal with the mix still being stiffer than I'd like a few times, but I just deal with it because I can't really afford to end up liable for a failed installation. I've never had it be like this playdoh; that just wouldn't work.
@@Anytus2007 Right, thanks. I’ve never had a failure either.. and have never used a scale or followed exact ratios. It’s cement, it always sets solid and it’s better mixed to a workable consistency. But that’s just me. If I’m hanging on a ceiling, I mix thicker, on the floor a little looser.
I could be wrong, but on a warranty failure of thinset they are just going to give you a free bag anyway, not pay to redo the tile job.. and how would they determine the mix after the fact?
How do you calculate amount of deck mud to use.
Whats the math?
Grate video God Bless!
As a DIY-er for many years, I came to use those mix ratios as nothing more than a reference. In my experience, they somehow turn out unworkable more often than not.
Part of the reason might be the differences in tap water composition/hardness/salts, causing significant variations in the initial mixture consistency and viscosity.
The first time I learned it the hard way was with a self-leveling mix. Used very cold water at the top of the ratio and still got a mix that not only wouldn't flow - it would simply sit as a blob of clay, not even trying to begin moving.
That’s awful!! Laticrete owe you a public apology!!
Ardex all the way. I like the Laticrete premixed grout tho.
dewalt should sponsor this video
Have to say I like AllSet thinset - only get about 8 2x2 foot tiles per bag on Shulter XL
I find that a spiral whip works best for multimax lite. I've never gotten good results with a egg beater style. It's good thinset when you get it mixed correctly, but the inconsistency that I get when mixing and the short pot life makes me keep it in the shop. I typically add 4 quarts of water, add 25% of the bag of powder, mix it till soupy, add 25% powder, mix till soupy, add the last quart of water and 25% powder, mix, then add the rest of the bag and mix.
Laticrete should sponsor a softball game with hardened multimaxx lite balls of thinset mixed to their specs.
Versa bond ftw😊
Just epic
Mix one bag multi max thinset and replace burnt out drill and repeat with every bag 😅
Ya, I bought this stuff after watching your videos and had to compromise. I pray it doesn't cost me 5k