Forging the iron bloom on the anvil stone
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ส.ค. 2010
- Thijs van de Manakker and smelting team: Karin de Vries,Albert de Wit,Reinhard Rubenkamp and Daniël Houwer. Part 4 of 5
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www.thijsvandemanakker.com/ind... - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
99 % of people don't comprehend what you are actually doing, or how much work and dedication it takes to create steel from earth...you show how it was done and you and your people deserve praise for taking the time to show us the knowlege that isn't lost. Kudos!
it's quite incredible if you think about it, that our ancestors were doing this daily ages ago, but yet still today you can still find it being done
The good will always endure, because there will always be people capable of it!
Wise words my friend!
The fact that you can see the iron glowing in full daylight just goes to show how freaking hot it was. Awesome video series, thank you for sharing.
Thank you for doing this! Well done- I never thought you'd get anything out of that poor bloom! To the people concerned about the use of iron tongs and hammers- iron came way after bronze, and all this can be done with bronze tools- just more frequent cooling required and more wear and tear.
What an amazing feet! The first man to beat on iron bloom must have been thought insane! The triumph of man! I'm sitting here in Florida looking for a used anvil, because my rail steel is like beating a dead horse with another dead horse, and I see this and I think, "maybe I ain't got it so bad after all!" I should just realize, the work of all that have come before and send a little prayer of thanks! Thank you for showing us this awesome work.
Who needs a power hammer? Also the shot of that forge weld at the end, that was as clean as I've ever seen.
A water powered hammer would be a major advance for the settlement.
Glad I found this video. We all have seen how the bloom is made and then hammered out on a modern anvil, But this is the way it was done at the beginning. Stone tools and stone anvil, Great information..
Kehnin Dyer Probably used Bronze tools to do this the first time around. Bronze can be made entirely with stone and ceramic tools, and ceramic is easily made with clay and wood.
these are certainly hard core, not hippies
Mr Thijzer, I only mean that his method of holding and swinging the hammer would be very tiring if he had to keep it up for a long time.You have made a great video showing a process I have never seen before.Thanks
This is really cool. Thanks for posting the video. It shows right quick how to beat out a gobb for your first hammer head.
I never realized how many hammers and anvils there are just laying around.
man this is an awesome set of vids. makes me wanna do a small batch some day. like others said. thanks for puttin in all the work to document this.
i just love the sound of hot metal being hammered... that deep sound where you can just feel how the metal is absorbing every blow
A fascinating and excellent video . Imagine what it would be like to do this work while it is snowing during a winter . The Lady gets right in there with a hammer and my respect !. Thank all of you people once again and best wishes for your New Year from New Mexico USA . - Lefty Cat
Thank you, we wish you Happy New Year too !!
4 men, 3 hammers, 1 magical tune.
great to see i am not the only nutter still making iron bye hand love it you all are fantastic keep the dream alive
moony australia
awesome the more knowledge that we can pass down the better. thank you for an amazing video
Dank U namens de hele groep !
Amazing. Civilizations were made or destroyed with that stuff.
I love that everyone is silent. The whole world talks waaaay to much. You guys rule.
Thank God for the Bessemer process!
This is beautiful and amazing.
You guys are great! This is what I've been looking for...In all the videos i've seen they used iron to make iron. You have stone hammers and a stone anvil this is great. I still wonder, though, what the ancients used for blacksmith tongs.
What type of bellows was that man using? They're some of the more interesting bellows I've ever seen, if not some of the easier to use by the looks of it.
cool video no words, just action
Ce film est le quatrième d'une série de cinq.
Dans la première partie, le four est construit:
Building a Celtic iron smelting furnace and roasting the bog-ore.
@lacolo This is experimental archaeology, we are trying to create traces for archaeo/metallurgists, so they can compare them with the historical ones.
Also answering the frequently asked question : how to forge the very first iron, if there is not yet any iron hammer.
Holy Crap This is so freaking awesome!
so if someone wanted to start fresh using only era items how do they get the tools needed to do this? like the metal tongs for manipulating the bloom? ie what did the first person use to do this?
Yea, all medieval iron smiths were barefooted. They loved feeling those hot embers and small flecks of 900 degree iron flecks landing on the top of their feet. I noticed the main guy holding the iron bloom wore shoes though.
Nah, you'd be surprised! The older generations gotta pass it on... there are young people willing to learn.
what is the cost of the iron produced about 12 man days ?
Do you think you will build a trip hammer for you anvil stone?
How can you tell if the soil has good iron content? Also any pointers on making my own silversand? I want to give this a go
The telltale signs for the presence of bog ore in the soil are:
1) The proximity of natural standing water (bogs, lakes etc). Not artificial ponds, unless they are hundreds of years old.
2) The presence of a petroleum-like film on this standing water.
3) The presence of bright orange slimy mud on the shores. This is bog ore in the process of maturing, being processed by iron bacteria.
If these signs are present, you can start to dig. What you are looking for is chunks, too hard to be clay yet too soft to be stone, with orange rusty veins on the surface. The slimy mud is also OK, it's the same stuff, but it has to be dried and roasted. The best places to look for are bogs that are in the process of draining and melioration.
You can use borax instead of silversand. Any sand that is white and pure enough is silversand, but borax works well too.
That iron must have meant a lot to the Celts for them to take this much time to get some.
Mr Thijs van de Manakker what about melting the iron up to a point that it is liquid isn't it easier to handle ??? I'd like to do the same experience but hammering it is a very painful job. Great video thanks...
At making the iron liquid, it will absorb to much Carbon and it will not be malleable.
Very Cool enjoyed this Video a lot
the man hour and energy spent to make enough steel for 1 tool or weapon... probably today why us folks who work with our hands and grew up swining axes and shovels were taught to revere and care for our tools.
I'd get a whoopin if I put a tool away wet, dirty, or dull.
Ahh, working with iron before crucibles. Beautiful.
i want to see the whole process of this. from beginning to end
What is it that you threw on the metal piece at 9:15?
I've seen people forge and use white borax powder. Is there a difference, or does that fulfill the same role?
That is so cool.
beautifull... really amazing
beautiful.
my grandfather was a smith. My great uncle owned foundry. enjoyed. the final product was iron. correct?
That's correct James, it's bloomery iron.
Is that what was being thrown on at 9:14?
What did you use for flux? i'm guessing quartz?
probobly granit i used it as a hammer for a chisel it is very very hard to even chip and the biger it is the stronger it is better question where do they get flx
@DruidicRifleman the one in yellow was at the beninning but its a good way to cool down when it gets warm :P
What type of stone are they using for an anvil?
granite i think.
Do you know the carbon content? iIs it wrought iron or steel ?
Lovely video- thanks
C: 0,006%
How did you get the carbon content that low? It must be very soft iron.
If you are going to turn wrought Iron into steel, you'll use a slightly different process an open hearth process. Basically breaking and cutting up that wrought iron bar, doing a similar process putting the iron on top of the charcoal, forming another bloom re-introducing carbon to form steel burning out all the other crap. The furnace is going to be more open layout.
The way I would do this and the way I've seen it done is to quench the bloom and then break it up. Heat the individual chunks, hammer them flat and then quench them in water and break them to see if they are high or low carbon. Then you can stack your pieces and forge weld. This is the way the Japanese make steel for swords.
Every ore has it's own approach.
We're trying to make iron from our local bog ore, Limonite, like our ancesters did 2200 years ago.
This way gives iron without carbon (C: 0,006%) that directly can be beaten into the bypiramidal ingot.
This iron then can be turned into steel in a second heat proces.
@@MrThijzer The pleasure of working pure Iron...You are a master. After this part you are cementing the finished product?
@@MrWTPunk The bloom is forged into bars.
Some of the rods are first cemented and then welded to the iron body of the object where necessary.
@@MrThijzer Thank you for your answer.
Are you teaching your art ?
Same, only Borax is melting at a lower temperature.
Damn hippies figured out how to conjure iron from the earth.
What is zilverzand?
Was this at the Archeon park in the Netherlands?
No, it's in Eversham, the ironage settlement in :
www.prehistorischdorp.nl/en
I'm always jealous of the excellent living history museums I see in Europe.
That is legit old school forging :) . Incredibly educating video, always wonder how the very first smiths did it, though I see here that he's using iron tongs to lift the bloom in and out of the furnace. Question is, where do you get a pair of iron tongs if you don't have any iron in the first place? Or did they use something else, maybe tongs made from antler or bone?
Bronze ?
+Thijs van de Manakker Bronze would contaminate the iron and make forge welding a lot harder. On the other hand, they probably used the pieces available before they discovered forge welding.
They probably saw the price of a decent anvil and said "that rock will work." Anyone else remember when 5$/lb seemed pricey?
That is a very broad generalization and if I may, small minded opinion. In fact it is only the last two generations who are responsible for rediscovering allot of these skills. That is after they were lost to the industrial revolution generation.
It melts around the iron, as a liquid glass, preventing the iron to connect with oxygen.
And to think I was born in 2000....
Yes, the flux is quartz sand.
Id be impressed if you could do it how they did it, no tongs or hammers
You're right, they're no skilled blacksmiths.
We're trying to portray a farmers settlement of 50 BC., where (as archaeologists think) the iron furnace was fired only once a year for their iron requirement.
sweet stuff here, im very grateful for this !! (: cool clothes too, is it cultural?
Echt gweldig! Ik zou zooo graag eens mee helpen!!
@MrThijzer
i never o in my forge when its on bare foot...
After the bronze and iron ages came the boot age.
what's a flux?
8:00 damn they're really getting into it
Brabant.
nederland?
I like to visit these guys.
me too
@SpaceAce991
Same as the smelting furnace.
c'est clair ils sont plutôt passionné d'histoire que forgeron.
mais je trouve le film pas trop mal.
ont ils aussi crée eux même le bas fourneaux?
@DruidicRifleman Just an archaeological experiment.
Wow all that for just a small piece.
wow thats alots of work :O
Fried air doesn't need that !
damn you use rocks? pretty old school badass
It's nice
That flux is used at firewelding the iron bars, not at smelting the iron ore !
oh cool a video before crappy social media screwed up the world lol
Whats that white powder?
It's silversand Joep.
Joep Stuyfzand Melts around the iron like a liquid glass layer, protecting it from oxidising and carbon exchange.
Also, it works as a flux to aid in the folded piece of iron to be "welded" back into the original to become one once again.
Mike
Right...quartz sand !
This is me in 15 years.
I hope they're able to cut down a shrubbery with their new tools.
Is this from bog iron?
Steve M It is Steve, bogore from Stiphout, near Eindhoven Museum.
Thijs van de Manakker Thank you.
Thijs .. have you ever Made any Carbon steel as it was done
in the beginning as in a Crucible with a clay Furnace's from back around the 900 1000 AD era I find it interesting as well . Some say this was first done in Asia some say India . I dont know whats your take ?
Lucky B We don't know how steel was made.
The blooms we made from the Stiphout bog ore had very low Carbon: 0,006%.
In a second run through the furnace the Carbon content raised up to 0,8 %.
yes Thijs ,, I cannot remember the year that Britain first started making the Carbon steel . but i heard many years ago that the middle east was making a Crucible steel that had very low impurities and then then i stumbled on to the Viking word , By Ric Furrer
a Discovery Documentary it shows some of the process but does not go into depth, early Iron interests me .. and thank you for getting back to me also blessings ,
+Thijs van de Manakker The Celtiberians made it by burying reduced iron until it rusted again, and re-forged the sturdier parts remaining, which were higher carbon. They may also have used a low, carburizing fire to surface treat.
The Japanese did it by using an enclosed furnace, and shoveling the output into water to burst the slag off, then examining the grain structure to differentiate.
The Indians were doing it much earlier with wootz, but, they had a particular alloy ore that made it possible.
Crucible steel came about in Europe about the year 1000 or so.
Some of the early European iron was high phosphor, which could be cold worked to be hard. Not as good as carbon steel, but usable.
what is the white power he puts on the piece being worked? is it slack lime?
+groseillegrowa
That's quartz sand, prevents oxidation at fire welding.
+Thijs van de Manakker thank you for your reply, very much appreciated...did so enjoy the video...
Barefoot with pieces of red hot slage flying off...OSHA would not be pleased!
Also, the bellows guy? Some guys get all the good jobs : >)
+AffordBindEquipment That's a tiring job after 20 minutes, much less 4 hours.
@EgholmViking
Yes Going bare foot might be a good way to cool off but i'd rather not find a hot ember with a bare foot I have issues with rough ground but yeah i like my feet unburnt.
het zien van dit filmpje, blijft WARME gevoelens oproepen
rein art Vraag me nog steeds af wat daar door de lucht vloog, toen we na afloop bij de Tongelreep stonden, jij, Albert en ik . . .
You even smelt bro?
th-cam.com/video/gjManty8sQg/w-d-xo.html
Probably one of the more weird things I've seen, three people slamming a hammer down on a hot rock.
it is iron kid
Tonar Silverwolf Yeah, no shit. I was making a joke, kid.
oh well then
Maybe they used fresh branches....
Also bronze was available....
@bacsac4
Quartz sand
-Thijs
Wanna bet, at that heat ?
what was that white powder they put on the iron?
but in the viking age they didn't have borax did they? if so how did they make it? it had to have been from nature itself!
We did use quartz sand as a flux.
oh cool can you smash quartz and use it as a flux?
showman139 Silver sand, smashed by mother Nature !
SiO2.
hmm I haven't heard of silver sand what is it?