With his interest in Cultural Marxism and Postmodern Theory, Green Gartside probably had in mind something more like Talking Heads, in terms of music and performance being more closely related to those concerns.
I think the notion that there was a lack of political slternative, in 85, needs looking into. Miners Strike, recent attempt on the Brighton Hotel, the Falklands not that long over, Poll Tax arriving, and South Africa, and Amnesty, early Climate Activism... famine in Ethiopia. Just tons of stuff really... Nice toons though bro
Was that a productive conversation? People who think a lot don't always make the most interesting speakers. The lack of decisiveness and tentative nature of the ideas just leads to an unresolved conversation. It's like an evening of foreplay.
Absolutely so, it's typically leftist. Talking and over-thinking to one's own mirror, whilst you'd better take action. Life's meant to feel happy and enjoy fun, if you sit down and do nothing you'll get depressed, and the sooner you'll take action and TRY THINGS OUT EVEN BLINDLY and see what happens: experimenting. This what life's about.
can't imagine wasting one's life listening to pop music, that too english [a culture where almost 90% lyrics are about some form of narcissistic dribble] ... So glad we still have a choice and loads of music (without lyrics and voice) outside this industrial barrage of endless mediocrity.
I can name a lot of artists that make awesome music with words. I mean, maybe my personal favorites aren't your cup of tea, but I think their raw talent shows that there is a lot of gems to be found out there, you just have to dig. For example, I listen to a lot of rap and hip hop, and, sure, a lot of the mainstream is complete and utter garbage, but even a pinch of top selling artists are still extremely talented, not to mention the occasional prodigy up-and-coming or in the underground. I'm sure the same could be said about any genre: most of it is garbage, but if you're patient and remain interested, you're bound to find those gems in the infinite sea of garbage.
@@dreamer2260 Sure! I kept trying to separate it into genre, popularity, time period (it's almost all 2010's) and how much I like it, but I'll just do it by genre. If you're looking for something specific, I can give recommendations as well. Rap/hip hop (my biggest genre with the widest variety) and sounds in its periphery: Kendrick Lamar, J. Cole, XXXTENTACION, Aesop Rock, Angel Haze, Childish Gambino, Earl Sweatshirt, Vince Staples, Lil Darkie, Isaiah Rashad, Ski Mask the Slump God, BROCKHAMPTON, Fukkit, 100 gecs, Kanye West, Denzel Curry, J.I.D., Smino, Tyler the Creator, JPEG MAFIA, Joey Bada$$, Stormzy, TiDUS, and many, many more. Metal etc: System of a Down, Memphis May Fire, Metallica, We Came As Romans, Crown the Empire, Rammstein. Rock etc: Modest Mouse, Jack White, Mother Mother, My Chemical Romance, AWOL Nation, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Nirvana. Electronic etc: Feed Me, Skrillex, Glitch Mob, Caravan Palace, Crystal Castles, OVERWERK. Also, if rap producers count as electronic: SOLSA, WILLIE G, Wendigo, bad fee., D. Ace, CRMSYN, Raven. I also like lofi hip hop playlists sometimes, no particular artists though. Miscellaneous singers (pop, R&B, or other): Woodkid, Kilo Kish, SZA, Chris Garneau, Joji, Lady Gaga. Classical: Chopin, and a lot of OSTs. Misc: Wardruna (Nordic spiritual music), 70s jazz, some swing. I also don't mind old country. I would also be lying if I said I didn't listen to myself--a lot, as I make my music for myself. I'm a rapper and producer (though my best beats are unreleased), I've been releasing a lot of somewhat old standalone singles but I'm gearing up for an EP with a rap friend osbVoren (who has little you can find online), a debut and a sophomore album. If you like my rap list, I take inspiration from it all, particularly X, Earl, Kendrick, Aesop and Darkie. I have many different modes and I'm always evolving. Sorry for the self plug but, ya know, gotta do what ya gotta do. Thank you for asking! Was fun to revisit some of the gems I've grown to love.
These are two terrible speakers with no rhythm, no fluency. Good ideas are stymied by multiple self-interruptions and 'you know' and 'I mean' and 'almost' and 'sort of' and 'kind of' and 'maybe' and typically English self-effacing qualifications instead of just saying it straight. It's exasperating! You can hear in every Mark Fisher talk on youtube that he is struggling to find his rhythm against a tide of despairing what's-the--point pessimism, the kind of depression that's social and empirically based, suffering from the very thing he talks about. Well, I just ordered 3 books by Mark Fisher because his ideas are good and his interests are important. I just hope his writing has more fluency.
It does. His depression, linked to his self critical attitude, linked to his suicide, linked to the perceived sense of political and social possibilities, is in a way the personal and social 'given' that his writings attempt to overcome through an attempt at wilful, vulnerable, self-creation and redefinition. He remains for me an inspiring if troubled presence. This may sound wanky, but Mark Fisher was 'real' in a way that few writers or thinkers are.
Cupid&psyche surely seems like a pop fix listening in 2020. And it surely draws one back to the 80's. And those brilliant drum sounds are part of it. I was aware of greens nervous breakdown around that mid 80's craziness and it's sad that the beautiful synth music he helped create was mixed with depression.
Not being left-wing (nor right-wing, actually, I prefer philosophy to politics and I like Nietzsche), I'll say something about Green Gartside and his total rejection of left-wing British close-mindedness during the days when punk was kicking in. You all know he started out as a Marxist but then he mixed up with all those 'wannabe anarchists' and didn't like their opposition to whatever was pop or slightly 'American': he started understanding how leftists often get confined in narrow cliches they cling on because they're frightened by the utter violence of nature. But nature's what moves us, so Green Gartside thought 'if all I believe in is the politics of needs, desire and pleasure, so why not get out of this underground-alternative view where making money's a crime?', and hence he ventured into producing music that would still be HIS OWN, stuck on what he believed in, but at the same time able to sell records... if you're selling records not selling yourselves out it means people LIKE YOU. What the heck is wrong with this? They like you, your products, you're not at all being helped by promotional tricks, yet they like what you're doing so you do sell records. What's wrong with this? Why earning more money is a crime? Simply because you'll always do it at someone else's expense? I'm sorry, this is LIFE, whatever you do in life will come against someone else's wishes, you CAN'T GET OUT OF THAT. If you and another guy like the same girl, one of you will conquer her and finally get along with her, the other one won't.......... it's, aye, winning and losing. I'm not afraid of words. It doesn't mean you'll always lose or always win, so the loser can have multiple other tries and make it, what the heck is wrong with this? It's life. It's nature. Can't control it, it will ALWAYS happen even if, as leftists, you don't like it. I'm sorry, life goes that way, not yours. So Green, being a clever guy, didn't care about what his mates at the time thought and went his way. He did it HIS WAY, not copying other people, stood true to himself, what's better than this? It means being a free spirit.
@@HarryFlowerrs you have yet to give 'any idea' about the first question, or the second comment. just empty retorts. if you are that clever, then answer the question.
Thanks for posting this. I’m also stunned that I found a video where I can hear Mark Fisher’s voice clearly!
Feel like shit just want him back
Out of the strong comes forth sweetness. x
“If a things worth doing its worth doing badly baby !” :)
When Mark is on a roll, he delivers one insight after another.
I love this conversation!
Life long Scritti fanboy. Ashamed to say just seeing this now AND as an American I had to "look up" Mr. Fisher. What a sad end for him!
thank you,great post..insightful!
Very surprised the audio wasn't terrible on this one.
You can't convince me that this isnt the set of Hot Ones
2:40 start time
12:00 = start time
I wish he still wore make up no beard and David sylvian like haha in a da da way obcourse 😊😊😉😉😂😂😂🙈💗2019
Sylvian doesn't look like Sylvian anymore either!
@@philipritson8821 He does look uncannily like David Batt, though.
@@MisAnnThorpe The Wombles bloke?
Note to self: go back to this for the notebook issue. Both mockery, and dismissiveness. Also the issue of silencing victims etc.
Well, well, well.
@@Ducken2g Don't share the level of intimacy/fixation with which the expression is invested. Too remote to be shareable.
With his interest in Cultural Marxism and Postmodern Theory, Green Gartside probably had in mind something more like Talking Heads, in terms of music and performance being more closely related to those concerns.
does anyone know when this took place?
"Off the page", I looked it up and I think 2011.
2000, the year before history stopped...
I think the notion that there was a lack of political slternative, in 85, needs looking into. Miners Strike, recent attempt on the Brighton Hotel, the Falklands not that long over, Poll Tax arriving, and South Africa, and Amnesty, early Climate Activism... famine in Ethiopia. Just tons of stuff really... Nice toons though bro
Robinson Angela Lopez Cynthia Lewis Steven
cardiff got promoted
Was that a productive conversation?
People who think a lot don't always make the most interesting speakers.
The lack of decisiveness and tentative nature of the ideas just leads to an unresolved conversation. It's like an evening of foreplay.
Absolutely so, it's typically leftist. Talking and over-thinking to one's own mirror, whilst you'd better take action. Life's meant to feel happy and enjoy fun, if you sit down and do nothing you'll get depressed, and the sooner you'll take action and TRY THINGS OUT EVEN BLINDLY and see what happens: experimenting. This what life's about.
@@220773
100%. These are beta male types.
A lot of murmuring going on here, but interesting thinkers
can't imagine wasting one's life listening to pop music, that too english [a culture where almost 90% lyrics are about some form of narcissistic dribble] ... So glad we still have a choice and loads of music (without lyrics and voice) outside this industrial barrage of endless mediocrity.
I can name a lot of artists that make awesome music with words.
I mean, maybe my personal favorites aren't your cup of tea, but I think their raw talent shows that there is a lot of gems to be found out there, you just have to dig.
For example, I listen to a lot of rap and hip hop, and, sure, a lot of the mainstream is complete and utter garbage, but even a pinch of top selling artists are still extremely talented, not to mention the occasional prodigy up-and-coming or in the underground.
I'm sure the same could be said about any genre: most of it is garbage, but if you're patient and remain interested, you're bound to find those gems in the infinite sea of garbage.
Pop music wasn't always this mediocre.
@@decemberagents1401 Opinions are like arseholes,everyone’s got one!
@@Yet.Another.Rapper.KiG.V2 I'd be interested to hear of some of your favourite artists.
@@dreamer2260 Sure!
I kept trying to separate it into genre, popularity, time period (it's almost all 2010's) and how much I like it, but I'll just do it by genre. If you're looking for something specific, I can give recommendations as well.
Rap/hip hop (my biggest genre with the widest variety) and sounds in its periphery:
Kendrick Lamar, J. Cole, XXXTENTACION, Aesop Rock, Angel Haze, Childish Gambino, Earl Sweatshirt, Vince Staples, Lil Darkie, Isaiah Rashad, Ski Mask the Slump God, BROCKHAMPTON, Fukkit, 100 gecs, Kanye West, Denzel Curry, J.I.D., Smino, Tyler the Creator, JPEG MAFIA, Joey Bada$$, Stormzy, TiDUS, and many, many more.
Metal etc:
System of a Down, Memphis May Fire, Metallica, We Came As Romans, Crown the Empire, Rammstein.
Rock etc:
Modest Mouse, Jack White, Mother Mother, My Chemical Romance, AWOL Nation, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Nirvana.
Electronic etc:
Feed Me, Skrillex, Glitch Mob, Caravan Palace, Crystal Castles, OVERWERK. Also, if rap producers count as electronic: SOLSA, WILLIE G, Wendigo, bad fee., D. Ace, CRMSYN, Raven. I also like lofi hip hop playlists sometimes, no particular artists though.
Miscellaneous singers (pop, R&B, or other):
Woodkid, Kilo Kish, SZA, Chris Garneau, Joji, Lady Gaga.
Classical:
Chopin, and a lot of OSTs.
Misc:
Wardruna (Nordic spiritual music), 70s jazz, some swing. I also don't mind old country.
I would also be lying if I said I didn't listen to myself--a lot, as I make my music for myself. I'm a rapper and producer (though my best beats are unreleased), I've been releasing a lot of somewhat old standalone singles but I'm gearing up for an EP with a rap friend osbVoren (who has little you can find online), a debut and a sophomore album. If you like my rap list, I take inspiration from it all, particularly X, Earl, Kendrick, Aesop and Darkie. I have many different modes and I'm always evolving. Sorry for the self plug but, ya know, gotta do what ya gotta do.
Thank you for asking! Was fun to revisit some of the gems I've grown to love.
I like some Scritti Politti songs - mostly for sentimental reasons. But seriously, this is just a load of drivel.
These are two terrible speakers with no rhythm, no fluency. Good ideas are stymied by multiple self-interruptions and 'you know' and 'I mean' and 'almost' and 'sort of' and 'kind of' and 'maybe' and typically English self-effacing qualifications instead of just saying it straight. It's exasperating! You can hear in every Mark Fisher talk on youtube that he is struggling to find his rhythm against a tide of despairing what's-the--point pessimism, the kind of depression that's social and empirically based, suffering from the very thing he talks about. Well, I just ordered 3 books by Mark Fisher because his ideas are good and his interests are important. I just hope his writing has more fluency.
Make that 4 books.
It's good to remember they are successful musicians not public speaking experts or speech writers.
@@cwmbran-city they are really difficult to listen to though.
It does. His depression, linked to his self critical attitude, linked to his suicide, linked to the perceived sense of political and social possibilities, is in a way the personal and social 'given' that his writings attempt to overcome through an attempt at wilful, vulnerable, self-creation and redefinition. He remains for me an inspiring if troubled presence. This may sound wanky, but Mark Fisher was 'real' in a way that few writers or thinkers are.
No doubt he was anxious as fuck given he was meeting one of his heroes and publicly attempting to make sense of the effect the music had had on him.
46:57 amazing reflexes
Thank you for posting. Mark was a genius and is sorely missed.
:(
hey it's Red Tide again!
@@peterhooper2643 Wow nice to know I'm getting some name recognition! 20-odd years posting into the YT abyss hasn't been for naught after all lol...
Cupid&psyche surely seems like a pop fix listening in 2020. And it surely draws one back to the 80's. And those brilliant drum sounds are part of it. I was aware of greens nervous breakdown around that mid 80's craziness and it's sad that the beautiful synth music he helped create was mixed with depression.
One of my favourite 80s Albums. Was on my turntable many times during the summer of 85. Great memories ❤️
Two of the whiniest guys I've ever experienced. Living in the past...
many many thanks!!!!! )))
Drivel? Dang, people.
Read some books
Not being left-wing (nor right-wing, actually, I prefer philosophy to politics and I like Nietzsche), I'll say something about Green Gartside and his total rejection of left-wing British close-mindedness during the days when punk was kicking in.
You all know he started out as a Marxist but then he mixed up with all those 'wannabe anarchists' and didn't like their opposition to whatever was pop or slightly 'American': he started understanding how leftists often get confined in narrow cliches they cling on because they're frightened by the utter violence of nature. But nature's what moves us, so Green Gartside thought 'if all I believe in is the politics of needs, desire and pleasure, so why not get out of this underground-alternative view where making money's a crime?', and hence he ventured into producing music that would still be HIS OWN, stuck on what he believed in, but at the same time able to sell records... if you're selling records not selling yourselves out it means people LIKE YOU. What the heck is wrong with this? They like you, your products, you're not at all being helped by promotional tricks, yet they like what you're doing so you do sell records. What's wrong with this?
Why earning more money is a crime? Simply because you'll always do it at someone else's expense? I'm sorry, this is LIFE, whatever you do in life will come against someone else's wishes, you CAN'T GET OUT OF THAT. If you and another guy like the same girl, one of you will conquer her and finally get along with her, the other one won't.......... it's, aye, winning and losing. I'm not afraid of words. It doesn't mean you'll always lose or always win, so the loser can have multiple other tries and make it, what the heck is wrong with this? It's life. It's nature. Can't control it, it will ALWAYS happen even if, as leftists, you don't like it. I'm sorry, life goes that way, not yours.
So Green, being a clever guy, didn't care about what his mates at the time thought and went his way. He did it HIS WAY, not copying other people, stood true to himself, what's better than this? It means being a free spirit.
Green forever
cubs libre
We're all fucked. Don't go to a London Art School.
why are most artists , musicians and comedians left wing ?
Why are vile pieces of work right wing?
@@HarryFlowerrs gay answer.
@@suncity22001 You're a little boy! Clearly stumbled into something you have no idea about!
@@HarryFlowerrs you have yet to give 'any idea' about the first question, or the second comment. just empty retorts. if you are that clever, then answer the question.
@@suncity22001 I don't need to,you're a child!
ffs they cant complete 1 single sentence
You can’t spell it 🤣
@@elp1437 lol