Bernstein on Debussy pt2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ย. 2012
- Earlier in this lecture Bernstein had delt with Wagner's " Overture to Tristan and Isolde " He is setting the stage for Lecture 5 "The 20th Century Crisis" using "Afternoon of a Faun " as a vehicle to illustrate the state of increased tonal ambiguity in the last decade of the 19th Century .
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![5 Minutes On... Debussy - Clair de Lune | Daniel Barenboim [subtitulado]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XiWfPJLp2ko/mqdefault.jpg)
Is it just me or does Bernstein have the smoothest voice humanly possible
@Bullet holes for maga hats Well, it's better that way. If not, they would die earlier, and it hurts when a great composer dies.
Bernstein rocked. I have listened to Faun hundreds of times, but never knew what it was that made the piece so vague, mysterious, dreamy and lovely. Because it is absolutely lovely. It is transporting. It changed my life. That sounds crazy, but it did.
You are not crazy, just sensitive
This awesome analysis is a piece of art in itself, so eloquently explaining it.
Thanx for watching . even 40 years later this series provides the best and most engaging overview of tonality that I am awear of . My post" the greatest 5 min in music education" along with " Bernstein on Mozart" together provide the basis for understanding the yin/yang relationship between Diatonicism and chromaticism
aware...
Even just the natural way he speaks so eloquently while playing...what a master.
Just gonna ignore the snobbier comments (and the one flatly bigoted comment about Bernstein's homosexuality), and just enjoy this wonderful deconstruction of Debussy's intensely labored masterwork.
Thank you. It seems most folks must agree with you.
How could homophobes even have an issue with Bernstein? He was bi; he had a wife and kids
This has been the best ten minutes that I’ve spent on the internet for a long time
I remember playing Afternoon of a Faun in the Summer Festival Orchestra when I was briefly hired as a teacher of Percussion.......Josef Gingold...then in his 80s attended the first rehearsal and sat in back of the first violins with a score in his lap. When we got to certain points in the score he would gesture with his hands
as if caressing the notes.....it was a marvelous experience. By the way, I was also in love with the harpist at the time....that is all I will say about this....
I just found your channel, this is fantastic! I started studying music theory when I was in grade school, but never had a teacher like this! Thank you….
Amén to ambiguity! Thanks for posting.
I'm taking a music course and it lead me to this video. All the theory stuff I muddled through at the beginning of the course comes together in this video and my mind is blown and I can't even express how thrilled I am that I understand what he's talking about!
Debussy has always mesmerized me; now I know why! Thanks for sharing
Ya mon :-)
Fantastic teacher, composer, conductor, and performer. 👌👏👏🎼🎵🎶
A great teacher is when they can explain something so complex in a simple way. Bernstein made me smarter about music than I am. And made me value Debussy so much more. Thank you for sharing
I wish PBS would re-broadcast this entire series!
I’ve always loved this piece of music, but this gives me a whole new appreciation for it. Bernstein’s ability to communicate musical ideas is amazing. Sometimes you run across these esoteric quotes by Debussy on music, but make no mistake underneath all that he was a true musical technician.
Thank you for sharing this! What a times we live in . . . wonderful that these recordings can flood the online community. At last!
He knows the music so well he can talk over his playing like the music is coming from somewhere else. Wow.
I know I can't for a minute talk coherently and play
Very interesting lecture sessions! well presented and well explained, thanks for uploading, and thank you Master Bernstein!
Thank you so much for publishing this! I wish children today had the benefit of someone like Bernstein to ignite their passion for the structure/composition of music!
I'm so so so so glad your upload appeared on my youtube!!!! Thank you thank you thank you for all of them!!
Thank you for posting these. What a total dude LB was. I feel better about the world in general now! Cheers.
Thanks a lot! I wanted to know more about this piece for a long time, luckily there is always some Bernstein explanation just around the corner!
Thanx for checking it out ! Check out my other Bernstein excerpts too ! Perhaps even my music on the same channel
I have heard a lot of people lecture and demonstrate music but this was such an amazingly masterful one it makes me feel like Bernstein surely breathed music while he was hanging around. Quite a contribution.
It makes me very happy that you're still active on this account, even over half a decade after you've stopped uploading. I like the little text pop ups and the occasional dog barking, it really feels like I'm watching it with somebody in a cosy living room, I prefer it over a straight upload
Wow cool I'm in Copenhagen playing jazz piano and composing glad you still drop by ☺☯️
@@paxwallacejazz that's really cool, I had friends go to Copenhagen a few days ago and they said it's the most beautiful city they've ever been in
@@k00091 yeah KBH is full of pretty cultured educated folk and it's quite democratic overall. Lots of interest in the Arts kinda like USA was in 1960 minus the racism.
Anyone who enjoyed this as much as I did will probably enjoy something on Rick Beato’s ‘Everything Music’ channel too.
This is fantastic ...
Thank you so much for posting this I'm so happy about it. I don't understand everything as I'm not English but this is truly great
Bernstein is truly a master of didactics. He reminds me so much of Richard Feynman, the physicist whose popular lectures also became legendary. Both with this irresistible jewish charm.
a master of didactics.Yes !
Are we sure he identified mainly as a Jewish or gay/bisexual composer... as opposed to American composer/trained partly in Europe , pianist, conductor , musicologist, philosopher
.Background information for sure, but not the all important thing. To put it in context I would accurately describe myself as 'of Irish background and (historically!) having had a same-sex partner . I would find it strange and inaccurate if someone said that is the way to define me....
Liberace, Freddy Mercury, Larry Greyson.all are all stereotypes of one type of gay.Fine ...but you forgot John Inman. I would like to think of you as being a nice person and fellow music lover, but perhaps be careful with the way you present your points so as to avoid alienating people
Oh thanks. Didn't know someone being gay makes you that bent out of shape. Sorry to hear that. Screw this.
hmm, jewish people... are statistically speaking (i.e. to more than 90%) descendants of Khazars who adopted judaism (original true genetic Jews from Palestine are negligible minority)
Susan D. Harris: Fuck off. Ignorant bitch.
Thank you kindly for uploading.
Thanks for posting this.
Also, Bernstein is truly an amazing composer, musician, and conductor etc!!!!
Bernstein in his immense musical science reminds us how revolutionary, innovative and genial was Debussy, nobody has changes and influenced music as much as Debussy, he extended the limits of possible more than nobody else.
Wait until you hear Shoenberg!
@@j.masonbrown6216 As soon as the "fences" containing tonalism are torn down by the removal of hierarchy, which is what Schoenberg did, then the ability to be expressive was greatly lessened.
That was incredible! I'm talking about the woman's legs sitting behind Bernstein... just kidding. No one explains musical forms better than he does what an "incredible " teacher!
Fabulous. Thankyou!
thank you for posting
I like to compare it to painting. You can't have light without darkness, and vice versa. If you want an area of a canvas to really POP, the majority of it needs to be cast in shadow and the brighter areas attract and lead the eye. In music, if you want to resolve a phrase in a beautiful and calming manner, you make the passage leading up to it chromatic. Kinda makes your eyes twitch with the clashing vibrations, but then you get that, "Ahhh" when it all resolves and evens out. Great post! I never realized Debussy invented his own tritone scale, basically the antithesis of Bach's tempered system. I must add to that, for building tension and resolving phrases, Bach is the master. He doesn't base whole compositions on shifting diatonic and chromatic scales and keys, but he subtly repeats phrases changing it every time, sometimes adding chromatic notes in the melody, sometimes adding additional lines with chromatic notes in the bass, like in a fugue.
Check out the first phrase of Bach's chorale "Es its genug". Its melodic line is a whole tone scale using four steps, the first and last making a tri-tone. Liszt in his later years experimented with whole tone scales and augmented triads. So Debussy didn't invent these things. But he began using them with new solutions to their resolution.
Thank you very much for this!
Really? You're welcome!
Thanks so much for sharing:)
Thanks for this!
OMG this was amazing! Can you tell us anything about this series? When it came out? Fantastic!
Qué preciosa clase
Genuis!
a great thanks
I found this interesting even though I really have no idea what he's talking about.
Yeah I just like his voice and Debussy, I could fall asleep to this
Thank you so much for these amazing clips! But ... is there a full version? I would love at least to listen to his orchestral version of this piece.:)
always fascinates me how logical is it to analyze a piece after it's been composed and ponder what motivated the composer to create the passage in the first place - how much was it by ear, by feeling, they certainly didn't pre-analyze what they would compose.
Cliff Works This piece is intentionally harmonically deceptive that's the name of the game regarding advanced harmony. It's called violation of expectation. If you bother to watch the whole series you will have most of your questions addressed. Go to cagin and watch lecture one phonology then lecture 2 syntax then lecture 3 semantics. Lecture 4 the delights and dangers of ambiguity lecture 5 the 20th century crisis and lecture 6 poetry of Earth.
Composing, even very expressive music, is by its nature a structural process which involves analysis. Sometimes this sets up patterns which can be said to be "pre-analytical".
Tesla said 3,6,9 is the meaning of life, or something to that effect, so I tried incorporating that into music. The 6 gives you a tritone, and then the 3rd and 9th notes from the notes of the tritone give you minor third and major sixth intervals. It creates an interesting set of chords.
Bravo!
wonderful xxxxX
Art!
curious the omitted part. Bernstein extracts really good ingredients out from the music
this is gold
Thanks dude
Try to get ahold of those rickety tonal fences when they swim by and be grateful for whatever cadence they throw at you.
insightful
I love having students play whole-tone scales. Nothing like being disoriented!
Bernstein IS the essence of "music"... Bernstein IS the essence of "teacher"... Bernstein IS the essence of being "brilliantly human"...
LEONARD BERNSTEIN!!!
Awesomeness
There's an irony about analyzing Debussy too much, and it's something of which he voiced a special aversion, even contempt! Above all else, Debussy had 'big ears': for him, it was all about the sound. This is not to say it isn't any fun to do analysis, but one should also read Debussy's own thoughts on the subject, which are readily available.
One other quibble: Debussy did not "invent" the whole-tone scale. But he did use it after a much more 'atonal' fashion than predecessors, as Lenny points out.
I would argue however that all truly great artists stand on the shoulders of giants, and that whilst you are undoubtedly right about Debussy's personal feelings that doesn't change the fact that knowing harmonic devices both on an instinctive and cerebral level allows for a larger toolkit for composition.
Debussy invented jazz
Its all brillant because words are use to give us confidence that what we are composing make sense OR DOES IT or is it just a evolution of music and then put the words to get us out of vageness and uncertainty I wonder if the composer uses e words or sounds to compose
The whole-tone scale is what movies and TV used to portray a character as entering a dream...............it is the scale of dreaming.
Yep; I always called it the "I-remember-it-as-though-it-was-yesterday" chin-scratching scale.
Thanks so much for this engrossing and educational video. Only a fool would be checking their email during this lecture. (kidding, this probably came before cell phones)
This series predates not only cell phones and email, but the public Internet and personal computers.
He's the guy.
Which led inevitably to rock'n'roll :-)
Well...maybe, but whats the pathway Debussy to Rock? (Im sceptical but open to ideas)
Number One Hit Song Lists well because rock and roll depends on the blues and the blues depends on dominant chords and dominant chords depend on tritones (the interval between the 3rd and the 7th.
The path is ever so slightly more complex than that. Debussy loved parallel 5ths, and complex chords moving in parallel (uncluding said 5th) which were quite unfavoured for most of music history. Jazz musicians picked up on it and started using it in their music. From there, shifting from tonal to modal harmony, grew blues, r&b, power chords and rock.
Not exactly. Not even close, really. R'n'R was mainly based on simple I-IV-V progressions. And, well, it had a backbeat. You couldn't lose it. No matter how you chose it. And, really, if you wanted to dance with me, I'd choose rock'n'roll music anytime old time over Debussy. I mean, I could roll with Beethoven and Tchaikovsky can have his news, but....inevitable? No.
@@byronp2311 Yes, quite inevitable. Debussy's influence on modern music cannot be understated. And that includes rock.
nice.
Only a genius could understand this brilliance
No you can too if you go to channel cagin or Shawn Bay You Tube and watch these lectures in their entirety. Not genius just some perspiration. With a note pad. And finger on the rewind . The name is "The Unanswered Question "
Shouldn't have removed the discussion of Mallarme's poem.
Too long.. you should watch these lectures in their entirety or perhaps just lecture 4. Just type in Unanswered Question by Leonard Bernstein. Or go to "cagin" or "Shawn Bay" These are channels.
He reminds me of Robin Williams, strangely enough
❤
Yeah, Debussy was great. Glad Berstein realized that.
Wowwwwww
Ahhhh shadaaaaaap! Lenny.🙄😣
Does anyone know which specific hymn Bernstein is humming at 08:09 mark? Thanks in advance!
It isn't a hymn, he's just singing IV-I cadences
But do we know if Debussy did this conscientiously or did he just improvised and then wrote?
All planed out like a battle strategy . The deferment or violation of expectation not to mention flooding the listener with chromatically altered harmonies .
I can assure you that Debussy was very intentional in all his music. When I took Advanced Form and Analysis, we spent half the semester analyzing Debussy piano Preludes in detail: Not one "free" note without a reason for its place! As structurally tight as Bach.
Composers were taking risks when they did things like this... he wasn’t just free to mess around with stuff that didn’t sound “right”, albeit with some new twist and turns within a familiar structure. (Imagine someone kits bleating on a trombone and calling it “music” - being too wildly different just wouldn’t cut it.
These were composers that were recognized as highly regarded - meaning “approved of” by the musical establishment and patrons of the arts. No one wanted to be embarrassed by championing a fluke or a failure! (And there were no Instagram followers then).
So it is all the more remarkable to consider how these musical innovations became allowable only within the context of supportive changes to artistic, social and political sensibilities on a much larger scale than simply one man playing at a piano.
Fun Fact ( I am pretty sure this is true) this was Michael Jackson's favorite classical piece
6:13
Debussy invented the Whole Tone Scale?
I had no idea, but if Lenny says so, that's good enough for me.
he didn't *invent* it, he just used it.
Did I mis-hear/misquote Bernstein?
Is that what he said?
I don't think Bernstein meant so much "invented". Whole tone scales can be found in eastern music it was even implied in Baroque music during melodic minor scale (me-fa-sol-la-ti). I'm pretty sure what he meant is Debussy was innovative in his application of the scale within his music, not jus melodically and harmonically but more importantly, structurally.
Great observation.
Question:
Wasn't the melodic minor scale a construct that came after the harmonic minor scale?
I was always of the impression that the harmonic minor was a development of the Baroque period, allowing composers a true dominant V chord, even in minor, and the melodic minor was a later development, allowing, with its different ascending and descending forms, more chromatic melodic possibilities.
Am I mistaken?
A 4:37
Hold on I thought Chopin and particularly Liszt had already dabbled in the whole tone scale much earlier than Debussy...some of Liszt's late compositions are easily as 'atonal' as Debussy...
Francis Maxino
Chopin and List are indeed well know for structurally integrating chromatically altered harmonies into their compositions including augmented chords diminished chords and altered dominant chords . however they never insisted that anything in their compositions be strictly interpreted as a whole tone scale.Certainly not like old Claude here.
You're right - Chopin and Liszt did the 12-tone scale and other atonal harmonics before Debussy. However, this piece is significant because it is *entirely structured* around the tritone; something never done before and perhaps a defining juncture in the transition from Romanticism to Modernism. Bernstein speaks of the said structure and its significance in the previous video.
Liszt yes. Chopin no.
Liszt’s Bagtelle Sans Tonalite (1885) was the first opus without a key providing a counter example to Bernstein’s claim that Prelude to the afternoon of a Fawn was. Maybe he meant first orchestral work??...
Comma sitri comma sarti comma sorti comma sei
so he just kept changing keys lol
Hmm. Well kinda but more. Lots of chromatically altered harmonies but it's how he was changing keys as. He was setting up expectations in your listening (if you actually do that) and then violating those expectations with a surprise solution so your never sure where the tonal center is. That's called advanced harmony.
The octave divided into six equal whole steps, gives you the so called devil chord. No fifths or fourths, and atonal. And it does sound devilish. So Debussy is hinting an E and the devil chord. Between heaven and hell.
Well, Pablo, aren't you something! Next time maybe they'll ask you to explain things in a more appropriate and suitable manner. I can't wait! We aren't all as knowledgeable as you modestly proclaim
Was he sexually ambiguous?
Who is this guy? He talks so much...
He also wrote West Side Story many of the song from which you will already know
Pablo, just please stop your idiotic posting. Not one of us is interested in your troll-spew. Go plague someone else.
One of the great American composers well beyond his Broadway scores. Try his Symphony No. 2, "The Age of Anxiety", or his Serenade after Plato's Symposium for solo violin and strings, harp, and percussion, or Chichester Psalms. If anyone has the right to talk about music, it is he.
Expensive words not easy to identify, but wastes time on primitive wholetone scale, we should have seen the keyboard instead.
what, to see what could be seen on paper? that would be a waste, though I agree the scale is primitive; I wouldn't doubt if the advanced parts of analysis were cut from this tape.
Pablo Escobar boy a little knowledge is dangerous. You do understand That this chromatically altered scale can not be called primitive because it's very existence is dependant on the tempered tuning system. Also you missed the whole point.
There's always some dipshit on the intetnet that thinks they've got the key to overhaul a history of information and experience which precedes them by centuries, isn't there?
Level32SaganOfCarl so it would seem
lmao he calls it autistic