Steel Electrical Boxes Are Better Than Plastic! (With How-To Details)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.พ. 2023
- This video presents the pros and cons of plastic vs. metal electrical boxes. And I show how I've used all metal boxes with plaster rings in my home addition.
- แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Love your video. Everything is true! My dad always used metal boxes, and as a young’n I must’ve asked why sometime when I saw plastic boxes somewhere. I remember hearing some explanation, but what stuck out to me is that “plastic can burn, metal doesn’t”. And that made a lot of sense to me.
Thus, in all the work I’ve ever done (except for some low-voltage), I’ve used metal boxes. I love them, love their safety, love their sturdiness, and see no reason to change.
Honestly, electrical box cost in virtually any installation is going to be very minimal in the grand scheme of things. Yes, maybe metal boxes are 4-5x the cost vs. plastic, but when that is minimal to the entire cost, I like the benefit more than the cost.
I expect and welcome any disagreement with what I've presented in this video. Constructive criticism or helpful insights are also welcomed. But I've received a couple insulting, disrespectful and rude comments. That's not cool. I would never leave comments like those on any video. Please be kind. 🙂❤
That's another reason for my husband's desire to retire from contracting. People, vendors, sub-contractors, owners have become very difficult to work with and for. Few people want to work. They are very lacking in skill and ability, are not careful, and are only out for themselves, not for the customer. Messages and communication is deteriorated and spotty; sometimes missing in action. Anger reigns, quality is non-existent in service, appliances, and in keeping one's word. It's in everything we do. People aren't reliable. Chaos reigns.
I expect a contractor that uses them blue plastic boxes will disagree at least I used the better quality grey plastic boxes. I saw the blue boxes when I bought the grey ones. The grey ones were heavier and I thought they would hold up better. Metal is best and had I have to do it over I would use EMT and the metal boxes that go with the conduit. The Romex ones are good. But EMT boxes have more room for the wires. My dad used the deep boxes because the code required extenders when Daisy chain wiring was done. The deep box was within code and no side extender was needed. 73
Yes you can get the same results using the Romex 4 inch box. The plaster ring or attachment is the best invention using 4 inch boxes. EMT boxes require the plaster ring for single and double outlet boxes. I also like the extender box so you can make the box twice or more deep for larger wires. Metal wins. When dad rewired the farmhouse we only used the single box but was metal. We had to go with a deep box because of the daisy chain wiring. Much easier to install. I don't remember seeing the deep boxes at Home Depot they do carry the 4 inch box. 73
Great video. I come from a family of electrical contractors, so please let me add a suggestion. I looked at your solderless connectors (wirenuts). Please consider trying the 3M Performance Plus wirenuts. My family uses those and NEVER have issues. I'd say they're the gold standard. Slightly more expensive but so worth the slight additional cost.
Excellent! I come from a family of electrical contractors, so let me add something. I completely agree! In my home, I have 4x4 metal with plaster rings. Can't do any better..
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It’s much appreciated.
Great video, thanks for creating and sharing. Super valid points and your methodology is very nicely thought out.
I feel the same way. I like the stability of a metal box, plus I appreciate the extra room. I am also a fan of the Kreg jig and often use it in the same way. I can put the box where I want it, even if it isn't next to a stud.
You can always tell when a outlet is put in a plastic box. It moves around when you plug anything in it. Yes there are different qualities available in plastic boxes, from cheap to good. As far as I've seen, metal ones are always best.
As a diy'er I've experimented with plastic and 4 square metal boxes with appropriate mud rings on a mock up. I agree with everything you said and you have confirmed my favor for 4 square metal boxes. I thought about using a wood backing like you suggested, but I haven't tried that yet. I find that the welded bracket on the side for stud mounting to be very solid and strong. I think that they are easier to mount accurately by using screws of my choosing, rather than the nail on plastic boxes. I find that the extra cost is insignificant compared to the overall project cost.
Excellent video and great timing for my upcoming project! Many thanks!
Love the plaster ring setup. More of an art. That plastic junk is not code here in Canada. Metal 2x3 boxes can be the best of both worlds:
Gangable.
Deeper options up to 3" for more space.
No plastic holes to strip.
Internal cable clamps so no box connectors needed.
Positioning tabs so you can slap it on the stud and screw it in place in seconds without the need for pocket hole woodworking behind it.
Single gang to double gang upgrade after drywall is done? No problem you can remove the stud screws from inside the box.
Drywall over it without the plaster ring and will look 100% the same with less work.
Price is +/- the same as the plastic-fantastic box.
I've done hundreds of hours of DIY home reno wiring on various properties over the years. I've never used anything but metal boxes, and I don't ever intend to.
Good evening Herrick. You make some great points about metal vs plastic, And you have to great ideas about how to firmly mount boxes.
However, I would like to make a couple points:
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~I found the price of a metal box, box cover, two connectors to be closer to $8.
~Doing an addition needing 45 boxes would not be a budget buster. However, doing a whole house with hundreds of boxes would be prohibitive.
~These are the things you do when it is your house, you are not bidding on a job, you are retired, and you have the time and money to do things EXCEPTIONALLY well.
_____________________________
If you follow code and best practices, plastic is equally safe and affordable
~Anchor the Romex within 7 inches of the box
~Us anchors every 4.5 feet
~Properly and securely anchor the box to a stud or cross member.
~Use plastic where code allows. And use metal where code requires.
As always, I love your videos. Thanks for making them.
I'm a little confused about the drywall finish. If you happen to record that... I'd watch it! Thanks again.
PS: I'm planning my 25 minibeds tonight.
@@pboin Perfect size to start. I'm heading into my 6th year of Minibed gardening. Looking forward to it. Here's wishing you Minibed gardening abundance in 2023 and for years to come.
Good idea... I will definitely make a video showing how to "fix" and finish drywall gaps around electrical boxes. 👍
@@pboin My 23 are doing well. I've really enjoyed them. I used used billboard plastic. Our extreme summer heat has shrunk my plastic from 3 sides, a few inches. Can't control that. Otherwise, the frames and plastic have withstood for 5 years. Such a pleasure to sweep up a little, and look at the organization and crops. Looks so nice, and produces well. So easy for weed control and irrigation.
I try to keep people with Propane Torches away from my receptacles. And have yet to experience any issues putting wires in an 18 Cubic inch box. And who goes around Wiggling your boxes?? If you correctly Staple your Romex and use code correct lengths (6” from the shield and 3” from the wall) I just cannot justify the argument. Plus I use WAGOs not Wire Nuts. MUCH safer in my estimation. To each his own! cheers…+x
Some people use American products you can keep your commie country's wago connectors. I use ideal products they are made in America. 73
@@ronb6182Try the 3M performance plus wirenuts. Even more secure than Ideal. You'll love them!
Could you do a video on how you finished the drywall with plaster rings?
Wow, Herrick, your jargon says you definitely know your business!!!! My husband at age 66, wants to go to part-time in his business of general contracting. He might be looking at his last big job right now, actually the end of it. He's been on the same job site now, going into his 3rd year. Thank God for the work. We're so grateful. But my husband's health is highly compromised. James wants to at least do handy-man jobs in his retirement. It's a slow-down, but not entirely. I can't wait for him to enjoy working here on his own place; tinkering at will, for pleasure. We have a rental, almost two rentals (one about to be finished), and an internet tower rental, and social security. Do you ever do handy-man jobs for other people? Thanks for a good video, and I hope you're nearly finished with your addition! Regards from far north California
Hi Elizabeth, I'm sorry that your husband is in poor health. Perhaps scaling down to doing a few select small jobs will be less stressful and that will help. I never do any handyman or side work any more. Planet Whizbang keeps me plenty busy. But we are in the process of buying a 4-unit apartment (something new for us) and I think that will keep me busy too. Thanks for the comment. Best wishes from central New York state. 👍
Good video, I agree. I do wish that the metal boxes had more mounting holes. It can get frustrating sending screws in so close to the edge of a stud. I wind up drilling my own mounting holes more often than not.
I prefer metal boxes as well. Add in some emt and I'll be completely happy. In regards to your first reason, I would agree with that point on rough-in, but once you install the mud ring, the opening is much smaller than just an open 4x4 box opening (and a bit smaller than the plastic box, so working on or changing a device after the initial installation isn't much easier at that point. Of course, you don't have to swap out devices all that often so it probably isn't that big of a deal. As far as the mud ring goes, I cut the hole big and then just patch it with quick-set mud. I tried the dimpling but it never worked out all that well for me. Especially since my cut-out holes always seem to be a bit off no matter how carefully I measure. That's my shortcoming though.
I agree with your sentiments.
thanks amazing tip!!!!
Hear, hear! I feel the exact same way for any work on my own home!
I also like the metal boxes better. Just feel more secure when you plug in. Also the plastic large boxes for switches need additional bracing or they go crooked and look terrible. Pre made bonding wires with screws can be had an any supply house in case you didn't know.
Do not forget to bond them.
You are comparing a double box to a single box. Just use a double box if you want volume.
Or the other way around... many times a double wide box will not fit and you have to place a single. If it fits, use an extra deep single to provide more room.
I'm curious about the crimp connector used to bond the ground wires. I've always used standard wire nuts to connect multiple ground wires.
It's a Buchanan crimp, made with this tool: www.amazon.com/Ideal-145669-C24-Crimp-Tool/dp/B000HEKRWA
I took an electrical class taught by an electrical inspector when I was in my 20s and he said that he liked to see the crimps instead of wire nuts. So I bought one and have used it ever since. But there is nothing wrong with using wire nuts. 👍
@@herrickkimball Thank you for the explanation. Had never seen these before, but I am thoroughly in agreement with your methods.
I’ve never seen one on commercial construction, used to hang board and I hated those plaster rings👍
I use 4x4x2 1/8” for junction boxes where necessary. I’ll use them for exposed work. Metal boxes are better but most won’t want to pay more for metal over plastic. Labor really increases with any metal box.
I never use tape or webbing when I do joints.
Never had one crack or fall out either.
Fun fact: You can use automobile bondo for joints and gaps.
It hardens significantly faster than regular stuff.
Trick is you have to have it smooth immediately after you put it on.
It doesn't shrink either.
While I have used an occasional plastic box, I will try to use metal boxes as much as possible.
I like the metal boxes especially if you have to run 3 ways then I can just run conduit instead of Romex never had a problem using a roto zip on a metal box just stick a piece of card board in the opening and it protects the wire
I too will not use plastic boxes. Metal boxes when done correctly are some much more 'solid' than the plastic nail on ones. I understand the using of Romex(which I hate using)in the house behind the drywall but everything I do out in my barn and garage/shop is all done with conduit.
are your windows missing headers in the first video shot? or are there headers hidden above? just curious...
No headers on the gable end of my addition. Not a load bearing wall. I have larger than code-required headers over the doors and windows on the load-bearing walls.
I watched this video too late I wired a whole house using grey plastic boxes. That's why I got a weird setup. I could only get a three gang box where I have four switches I had to special make the switch cover to accommodate the double side switches. Had I used metal boxes I could have a 10 gang box if I wanted to. I still can rewire the shed because the walls never got put up. I may go all the way and use EMT. With the price of Romex these days it may be cheaper. 73
You've conflated three separate issues here. First is box material which can be metal or plastic. Then there is box size, and there are options in both plastic and metal. Finally there is the method of attaching the box to the framing. While I also prefer metal boxes, it should be mentioned that plastic boxes can also be purchased in larger sizes and attached to the framing using the method you describe. You also didn't mention the additional time required to bond the ground wire, which often involves connecting an additional pigtail. It may only take a few minutes but when multiplied by the number of boxes in a home, it becomes significant.
I prefer plastic boxes in the attic when there is no ground wire because if I am crawling around on my hands and knees I feel safer. When there is a ground wire I use a metal box.
Well if you got sn open checkbook and you don't have to bid competitively use ehat you want. I remember there eas s time in my area you could use plastic everywhere except in garage walks that were common with the house.
If I had my druthers, I would do everything in conduit or BX and metal boxes. But that isn’t always possible.
Yes, metal boxes are better, but I think it's a little overkill to do everything with metal. I don't think it's worth the extra cost.
Maybe not every receptacle or switch, but they definitely should be used for some of them. The problem is knowing ahead of time which one.
@@LughnersonI would definitely use them for most receptacles..
Don't they have old work boxes that are metal??? That seems like a lot of unnecessary work to put it between studs and prevent popped screws in the drywall.
whenever i see those plastic things, i just throw them away i prefer metalboxs also
the comparison of a 1 gang to 2 gang is meh... but i find metal and conduit protects wires from idiots hammering staples through cables and provides a more rigid mounting in some cases
I will use plastic all the time. i have been in the trade since 1978. Metal is not any better. and yes i have my elec licenses.
I'll use a metal box where appropriate but plastic is better.
yes of course. on a block garage. i use metal. can,t use plastic. @@richardhoner7842
Can you explain why? Cause everyone can say why they like so and so. No offense
I agree that they are GARBAGE. I have to wonder why you would use them on other people's houses. I have gone out of my way ripping out the garbage plastic and replacing them with metal. But I did go with the same size boxes. Also, in the video, it looked like there was a 14 gauge wire feeding a 14 and a 12 gauge. That's not safe. you can go from a thicker wire to thinner, but not thinner to thicker. That can cause overloading and over heating.
I was looking to couple two metal gang boxes that are not gang-able. Using knockouts and a pass through. Haven't been able to find such a video.
Also, it behooves people to use lever nuts. No twisting on the wires, which reduces wire fatigue, and it is so much easier. The only con, is it behooves one to wrap in electrical tape, because a wire can push a lever open when trying to stuff the box or just enough pressure to let the lever pop up. Otherwise, they're superior to the twisted nuts.
If your plastic boxes are melted like that I think you have bigger issues 😅
Honest this is stupide.....Oke i get you people you want a big box....i agree thats more Handy but then you cover it up and end up with a smaller hole so your stil dinking around....plus you wil never get to those screws ..... excuses me for my ignorance but why is that box not covered by finishing plate that closes the whole box??.... Hey im from Europe and we have small round modular connectable plastic boxes.....and our switches cover the 2 screws that are mounted horizontal or verticale then the finish plate covers the whole metal frame ....
And yes ours are Dinky small but hey they work had no problems in my life and ice been doing diy electrics for 30 years now.....
Call me bios but why o why does nobody make your electrical boxes more modular like the German ones we use ?? I bet i can be done with your codes....hek we are running Double the voltage trough those resepticals .....
Im just shaking my head.....so glad i dont have to deal with us electrics......but i guess that goes Bothe ways😂😂😂😂😂😂
Interesting. Could you please send a link to the type of boxes you use? Thanks!
i flip houses. I COULD NOT DISAGREE MORE WITH YOU regarding your preference for metal electric rough-in boxes over plastic ones!! THERE IS ONE - AND ONLY ONE question a person should ask when deciding between these two boxes: "which one is safer both to install AND more importantly, years down the road." PERIOD!! That is the only RELEVANT question. i don't care how "unstable" you think plastic boxes are. i don't care how much better you feel metal boxes hold the wires in place. Plastic boxes WILL NOT conduct electricity should the power wire touch the box. somewhere down the road when maybe someone else is replacing the outlet or switch of GFCI on one of your metal boxes, they may be the homeowner or a "careless" electrician and they could easily allow the wires to touch the box. if they do, they will receive an electric shock. that WILL NOT HAPPEN with a plastic box. when we do electrical repairs or new installs, we provide as much "safety" as possible. we use NOTHING BUT plastic boxes AND we use HIGH QUALITY electrical tape to wrap around the wire attachment screws on every outlet, switch, or GFCI that we install. i've heard all the comments before here on Facebook from "professional electricians" offering negative comments on plastic electric boxes or "making fun" of "any electrician that wastes tape wrapping an outlet or switch he just installed." my comment to ANYONE who holds these views is that YOU MAY NOT BE SMART ENOUGH to be an electrician! there is only ONE issue for electricians - SAFETY!! safety for themselves and safety for the people "down the line" that might touch your work. Mr. Kimball, you should be ashamed of yourself for telling novice homeowners and "DIY" remodelers to "always" use metal boxes. your comments are frankly - RECKLESS!
Or you could just ground them properly. And shut the power off when messing around with electrical wiring.
@@Tephnos yes, of course. however, when we do "flip" houses, we repair/remodel them with a future "not too smart DIY" homeowner in mind. other than a garage or laundry room where outlets are "exposed wall mounted" and need to be "robust", i can think of NO-ZERO reasons why all new outlets should not be plastic boxes.
I was under the impression that metal box are good but to ground them you will need metal cables with it to
The boxes are grounded with a lead off the electrical wire ground. 👍
why would you install these things if you hate them?
are people actually asking for this crap?
At least you can reuse your metal boxes when your whole house burns down.
Umm, properly grounded metal boxes are way safer than plastic boxes could ever hope to be.