It really feels like someone on the Zelda team has a Thing for scrolling through super long lists of items. Because my word, it's bad enough that it didn't get ironed out at some point in TotK's development, but Echoes also having the exact same problem is really making it seem like a deliberate choice.
The Harvest Moon games perfected inventory management a long time ago, Zelda should literally do just that, how hard is it to pick the order in which you rotate items and have a quick swap button? It's such an easy fix.
The constant 'left/right' movements in BotW/TotK gave my pro controller stick drift when moving the stick left & right. I'm sick of it! It was so annoying for me playing Echoes because of it, too.
Honestly one of the sorting options should've been a favorites tab, would've solved a whole lot of issues. I can understand why they didn't though, because it doesn't encourage you to try different things.
That's actually how I plan to do a second run. I'm only going to echo the items I use or am forced to use. For example, I would only get one of those statues. I don't need four, but I HAVE to get at least two, so those are the only two that I'm going to get.
the minimum is 10 without wrong warping, there has been stuff on that in the speedrun comunity alredy table required at the start, fire water electricity and wind are all required in 4 different aspects, both animal statues for that one dungeon, the ball required on the forest, bomb fish required for water temple, and the mole in gerudo too; that sums up to 10 it's fun to work around restrictions with that yea or you can just wrong warp and do it with only 2 lol but what you know
Not realy as most of the Echoes are redundant as the game goes on you're going to slim down your options on the most used tab to Water blocks, Trampoline, old bed, Flying tile, and your prefered/most powerful monster everything else may have niech uses but the 4 echoes I mentioned first can solve almost any problem you come across especially the watter blocks
I really recommend for anyone struggling with navigating echo menu to use the notebook instead of scrolling. I love this game, but the echo selection menu is atrocious 😭. But using the notebook makes selecting them SO much easier.
it really isnt that much faster to use the notebook it halves the scrolling time but you have to press 3 more buttons and deal with input delay + you lose the muscle memory of knowing where the echoes are
Honestly I haven’t had that hard of a time just using the normal menus. If you get a new one to use, go to recently learned. If you want to find a couple you think would be useful for a specific area, pick them using the by type menu and then you can use any of them by using the recently used tab. It’s not the best system but it works.
I use beds a lot, but I also use trampolines and potted plants a lot (though the trampoline becomes less useful after obtaining an item that doubles Zelda's jump height when equipped). I also use flying tiles a lot; for horizontal distance across gaps, flying tiles are far more useful than beds.
@@marcuscostello5635honestly water blocks make beds and trampolines completely obsolete, they're the most broken "platforming" echo apart from maybe the flying tile enemies which I've already seen smallant use to glitch into a room for speedrunning strats.
Selecting the echos you want to use can get really frustrating at times, but apart from that... I'm really loving the game. The performance hasn't even been bothering me at all somehow.
I have also not experienced any performance issues, and Im on an original switch. I 100% believe Arlo when he says he has experienced issues, but I have yet to personally experience it.
@@joelsytairo6338people voicing their concerns over issues they have experienced is not toxic. Dismissing their concerns and labeling them as toxic IS (hypocritically) very toxic of you.
Something about the echo gathering and forcing monsters I just found to fight other monsters really does wonders for my goblin brain. The echo selection needs work, but I find switching between most used and recently found gets me most of what I want to use.
I had it on "recently used" pretty much the entire time! A neat trick with that is to just tap left when you open the selection to jump to the end of the "recently used" list - your most recently learned echoes will be right there!
I love most used. And if I pick up something new that I expect I'll want to use a lot, I spam it a bunch to get it fairly high up in the most used section lmao
I love how measured and thoughtful you are when you have a dissenting opinion. I really appreciate it when people try to get to the bottom of why exactly they personally don't like something
I think it's kind of sad that he feels the need to be this preemptively apologetic about having some mixed feelings and mild criticism towards a game, it's not like he was gonna mindlessly bash on it either way. It should be ok to respectfully critique something without having to brace yourself for backlash any time you have things to say that aren't just showering the shiny new thing that everyone loves with endless praise.
@Lorenzo2300 I'd say go scorched earth and just outright say what you don't like at a given moment. If you change you're mind later make another video saying you changed your mind. Fanboys on the internet are annoying but not that scary lol
This comes off more like a half hearted way to tell people "thank you for padding out every single bit of criticism with 30 seconds of apologetic filler" just so people don't feel attacked.
It’s interesting I found myself using beds less and less as I progressed. I was kinda getting tired of it, then I discovered other ways to cross gaps and it’s not so boring
Arlo: I dont want to ______. Also Arlo: Proceeds to _______ anyways. 😂 In all seriousness tho, if you dont love it, well, you dont love it. Its just how it goes. No worries.
Wondering if he'd played spirit tracks or a link between worlds, minish cap? Etc. Because this is not in the mainline like BotW, and Twilight Princess, and etc. This is the handheld Zelda and as far as that goes looks fantastic
@@Mirage475 If he confidently asserts his opinions he gets called a hater. If he tries to softly state his opinions he gets called a baby. He really cannot win with you people lol
As a new player to Zelda, I feel like I’ve had _many_ moments of like, wow that solution to that puzzle was amazing! It’s too bad it didn’t scratch that itch for older players!
There are many old players who enjoy this game like myself. I struggle understanding what people's problem is with the game but everyone is allowed to dislike it. I personally really enjoyed it.
I've been playing Zelda games since Ocarina of Time, and I'm loving this game so far. I really enjoy the echo mechanic for combat and puzzle-solving, and the only thing I'm really disliking is the addition of swordfighter form.
I don’t think it has anything to do with being an “older” Zelda fan, and more to do with what type of puzzles satisfy you. I’m the most traditional Zelda fan of all traditional Zelda fans and I’ve been incredibly satisfied with this game’s level design so far. But that’s just me.
@@matthewmuir8884 I still don't understand why they didn't give her some sort of direct magic attack that uses the meter instead. Swordfighter mode feels like I'm handing over the reigns.
This, beds still have some usages of course, but eventually you find more effective options of traversal, it’s all about experimenting with the echoes and different approaches.
“I want all reviews to match my opinion” isn’t a way to look at reviews. Yes some people will have different experiences and takes on a game and those should exist because they inform people but that doesn’t mean there HAS to be a negative review for something good. Sometimes things that are objectively good just aren’t for you and that’s okay.
Yea other opinions may help bring words into ways you feel about the game you didn't really know how to think. Personally I love the game but spoiler for the last dungeon. I wish the game was co op with both link and Zelda with dungeons that can split the players one being link and having classic style combat while Zelda has echos who can summon items and enemies to beat puzzles. Or just a single player but give you the ability to switch between characters with maybe temples that are link exclusive and others Zelda exclusive but then others that require both. This game has shown a great way to utilise Zelda as a playable character that isn't just links hack and slash.
I felt the same about the game until I started watching play throughs. Seeing other people complete early puzzles in different ways, and hearing my friends describe the different solutions and exploring they did, gives me the impression of a highly replayable Zelda game.
That part I agree, the game pushes you to be creative but at the same time it's way too focused on echoes and the menu scrolling which does get annoying and redundant. It was an interesting experience but should only be a small part of the game.
No replayable, most people will get bored and stop playing before even beating it. I got about 7 hours in, saw just about everything and am bored. Another zelda with bad dungeons
@@MrFoolD Its the mechanic the game is based around, it shouldn't be a small part of the game. The UI just could be better. Sorting it helps, and using the start menu one instead, at least.
Sounds to me like it's just not your type of game. You not liking it doesn't mean most people won't finish it lol. The game has replayability for creative people and the different orders you can solve the dungeons.@@chiquita683
There are plenty of secrets. The mole echo is basically your shovel and you can use it to dig up a fair few tri crystals in the overworld. There are definitely a good amount of caves and cracked walls to find, as well. Heart pieces and stamps too.
I big one for me was just how many extra dungeons and bosses you could find just by doing small quest. They added quite a bit to my playtime and I found them pretty enjoyable
compare this map to the link to the past map that they reused for the 3rd time. The exact same areas have been extremely dumbed down in echos. There are a small handful of secrets to find in this new game compared to the buckets in the older ones. Which is why it's feeling empty to a lot of fans. Not to mention the solution to said secret's "puzzle" is usually just, walk up and take it :(
@@zeldarainbow3423 I just 100%ed the game and I gotta disagree with you. There were plenty of secrets in a massive overworld. As someone who loves 2D Zelda games because of all the secrets you find in the overworld, this game more than satisfied me
Sorry to hear that you're mixed about the game. I personally am really loving the game. (Though I do agree that going through the echoes is quite the hassle)
@@thearcanian5921 same, Immediately realized how much of a hassle then normal menu was so I forced myself to learn to automatically click the notebook button instead 😂
I'm really loving Echoes of Wisdom as well. The one thing I am not loving is swordfighter form; I like experimenting with the echoes, and swordfighter form feels like an easy default. One would think the meter would make it something to be used sparingly, but it is so easy to replenish the meter, especially in the Still World, and especially after learning how to make smoothies. I made it a point to myself to use the swordfighter form as little as possible, but certain fights (Ganon) feel built for swordfighter form and not for using echoes/bind.
I‘ve actually never had an issue with that, but I see I‘m in the vast minority. I always felt the most recent sort to be perfectly suited to my playstile, having my 2 or 3 combat and 3-5 movement and puzzle echoes for the current environment and then just scrolling a bit further right for echoes I hadn’t used that recently or all the way right to try out new ones.
The game never really challenges you to try and think of a solution other than the standard go-to's. There's rareely a puzzle where you can't use a bed, or a combat encounter where just doing damage is the best way to win, even with most boss battles. It's a cool system with a lot of potential, but the end product is extremely shallow and rarely ever actually gives you a reason to think and consider your approach. You CAN approach things differently every time, but the end result is always the same thing, just in a slightly different font.
I completely disagree. I have reached puzzles that require you to do specific things, sure there are still multiple ways to do it, but you can't use a standard go-to in a puzzle that involves lighting things on fire, or what have you. I think people also need to replay some older Zeldas.........a lot of the puzzles aren't hard or amazing at all. Zelda games are just fun, and this one is too
@zeldadonkey1 Yes, but that isn't always helpful. There are some echoes that are useful situational but I still have to work my way back through other echoes I use more often. A favorites list would allow me to select ONLY the ones I want to appear in the menu.
What I love about this game is watching the way my kids solve problems in ways that I couldn't even imagine. Every time I watch them playing, I am surprised by their solutions to the challenges. I keep rethinking my approach to combat and puzzle solving in this game, because I have seen three different approaches to the same puzzle. I love that aspect of the game
Something I was really hoping to see out of this game is more character from Zelda, but they decided not to give her any dialogue and keep her silent like link, which is kind of a bummer. I was hoping for something like Peach from the first three paper Mario games, she was written really well in those games. I think not giving Zelda a chance to speak in her first staring role is a huge missed opportunity.
@@matthewmuir8884 Yeah it’s really annoying how Sword fighter mode is on such a small timer, even after upgrading it a few times, and it’s pretty annoying to refill outside of the dungeons. I don’t mind it because sometimes I’d rather just fight traditionally than send out an echo. But at least for the most part it’s optional, I don’t think there’s ever been a time I’ve HAD to use it, though I haven’t finished the game so I guess that could change.
@@Final_Starman For me, the meter isn't the problem at all (I've never had any problem refilling the meter, especially as meter-replenishing potions and smoothies exist); for me, the problems with swordfighter mode are the way it can trivialize some of the combat when used alongside echoes, the way that at least one enemy (Ganon) felt more built around using swordfighter form against it, and the way that the temptation to use it is always there.
Dude… who cares? State your opinion of the game. Don't worry about the sensitive people who throw a fit and cry when other people don't like their favorite corporate product. I'm not a huge fan and so you aren't the only person on this planet that has mixed feelings about it. I genuinely miss old style Zelda. This new era isn't really for me, and it makes me feel better when I see others speak their minds openly about it.
@@Nick-yv1rm I do enjoy this game but what I hate is what you said, when people pussyfoot around having an opinion. I don't know why there's such a big fear of stating opinions on media. It's not like this is spewing bigotry or whatever, something that SHOULD get backlash. This is just "I didn't like a game" or "this doesn't speak to me" and people are cowards.
@@BJGvideos I think y'all are missing a key bit of perspective (or just didn't think of it) but the human mind tends to have a negativity bias so while he might have tons of people agreeing with him just the handful of people disagreeing with him and being mean about it will be far more noticeable and far more easily remembered. Totalbiscuit (may he rest in peace) talked about this aspect of content creation and why it could be so detrimental to mental health. Doesn't matter how beloved you are, your mind will still pay more attention to the people who don't like you.
they desperately needed a favorite option for echoes. theres a workaround, spawn your favorite echoes like 50 times and they’ll hopefully stay at the top of most used. it does feel a little simple but i think because of the cartoon style it has to also appeal to kids. with so many echoes options, the solution has to be available to kids
The UI sucks. Thats about it, the story/gameplay/world/characters/mini stories/etc are all amazing. Absolutely loving the game rn, great mix of classic Zelda and new Zelda, while also being a new change of pace playing as Zelda. 9/10 for me prob, but haven’t finished it yet, so could go lower or higher. Tip for you though arlo: Idk how far you are, but you said “The puzzles are very obvious”. They are at the start, but a at a certain point the game takes a huge difficulty curve, and the puzzles start to become less obvious and you have to think more. Idk if I have some magic switch or smthn, but those “run” problem u mentioned, are non existent for me. The way you explained is very exaggerated, I saw it sometimes, but it immediately switches back. Mines been consistent really well. And even if it was switching super constantly like you explained, to say that it makes it scarlet and violet levels is INSANE, I wouldn’t go that low lmao.
Real, I'd say your enjoyment of the gameplay depends on the person. I thought it was cool to play like a wizard and summon these monsters to fight for me, and for some people that will probably not be as fun. The story isn't AMAZING but it's not bad which makes me happy, it's not confusing or poorly delivered like totk.
You never complained about the UI in Breath of The Wild and Tears Of The Kingdom that are also bad. The Last mainstream console Zelda game with good UI is Twilight Princess HD.
Ive seen the bed complaint a fair bit, which i find funny because i really only use one to heal, and the occasional stairs but i find them so cumbersome to maneuver and place. But once I learned to echo water it replaced any vertical movement i need.
Yeah. Just discovered this because I misinterpreted how the water blocks work in relation to surfaces. Then I realized how they ACTUALLY work and felt my brain expanded and a light clicked on
There's definitely quite a lot of framerate dips. (Unless you've played on an emulator.) Some people are just better at not noticing or ignoring them. I envy them.
Literally... maybe I just don't get the framerate thing in general, I can't for the life of me feel the difference. Maybe at the beginning I felt it a bit too but I wasn't even sure? Never afterwards though, and certainly not enough to find it remotely an issue or a bother whatsoever idk, I also feel a little crazy lol
@@theXyrosMy thing is that, I can see the frame dips, it dips pretty often, but who cares? After like 30 minutes I didnt even notice them anymore. This is not an fps or some fast paced game. Its a top down zelda.
yes you did. this isn’t a pc game where different specs can effect performance, we’re all playing this on the exact same console. you being incapable of noticing it doesn’t mean it’s not there
I knew when they said there were like 200+ Echos that not all of them were going to be useful and that there would be like 10ish that would outshine all of the rest in utility, so I'm not at all disappointed that turned out to be the case. Transportation/getting around wise, the Trampoline, Bed, and Water Block are all insanely overpowered as well as any enemy Echo that travels in a predictable pattern that you can ride by carrying it or Binding to it.
As someone who spent the last seven years dreading the direction Zelda's been going in, I was actually pleasantly surprised by this game. I will ABSOLUTELY understand the dislike for the menu. That shouldn't have been okay in TOTK and it isn't okay here. But as far as things like the dungeons and story progression go, I'm actually having a nice time with it. I think it probably should have been MORE linear though, especially if it's gonna be more puzzle focused. The open-ness and up-in-the-air nature of what echoes you could even have kinda messes with that. I was worried the game would just be 2D BOTW/TOTK where freedom's the name of the game, but I'm at least glad you don't get ALL the dungeons to do in any order.
Yeah, the openness probably made things easier than they would otherwise be. I'm thinking of doing a second run with a much more limited echo selection. Not necessarily minimal because that would probably necessitate relying on swordfighter form for combat. But basically just the required ones and a handful of my favorite offensive echoes. Caromadillo ftw, great for anyone who doesn't want to play too passive, it's basically a projectile attack.
I fully agree with you on the overall direction of the franchise, and this is also the first time I've seen anyone talking about how linear it's gameplay structure is, which is also the specific thing I've been wanting to know from reviewers. So genuinely, thank you.
I think it's a lot more slow-paced than other Zelda games. We're used to being able to swipe our sword a few times to kill a monster, but in EoW every single encounter with every monster is basically a micro-mini puzzle. The whole game is about puzzles. The sword ability creates an opportunity to do it the old fashioned way, but we don't have endless access to it. I think it's a really good game, it's just not my style. Like, I had trouble with Oracle of Ages lol
You get some REALLY fast or aggressive echoes after a while. Even something like the black spider is surprisingly fast. So to me, it does start to feel more faster paced once you get those better monster echoes. But I do love figuring out the best echoes to use for fights, imo it's so fresh and I find myself never using swordfighter mode unless I have to
I agree that the performance shouldn't be as bad, but it's doesn't degrade the overall experience very much. But I love this game so far. I'm about half way and I'm having a total blast, very happy with it.
I had that aha moment. There was a number of puzzles, where I had to do a thing. I came up with a solution involving using water, a box, and then making the box fall at the right time by using a high cost echo. I thought that was the solution to those puzzles! Turned out it was WAY simpler than that lol
The way you describe the puzzles in EoW is how I feel about all of the old 2D Zelda games. I feel like a lot of the old puzzles were just like “oh, use this one thing you have that you only use in this situation and have only ever used in this situation,” and while there’s still an element of that in EoW, it feels so much more satisfying for me to choose from an arsenal of different fun ideas to solve similar problems. I feel like everyone overhypes older 2D zelda problems, but for the most part I never felt they were *that* complex. Always fun, don’t get me wrong, I love 2D Zelda! But I absolutely adore the direction these new games are going in so much more!
Yeah, not saying 2D dungeons couldn't have challenging moments (LA especially) but so much is "use this item to hit switch" or "push block onto button."
In terms of classic 2D Zelda, yeah, sure though I think you are simplifying it some and also downplaying the difference in time between these games. If the same care and attention was given to a traditional 2D Zelda like Link's Awakening remake was, it would no doubt be a new classic. With that said, I couldn't disagree more with this argument for classic 3D Zelda. Yes there's gonna be a linear structure to the puzzles, but because of that, the developers are allowed to build out more creative uses of those elements. When there needs to be a fairly basic solution for things in an open-ended puzzle, it ruins the potential complexity of that puzzle. The appeal of classic Zelda in going into a dungeon getting an item, and then having the developers use the dungeon to showcase how that item is used, is really fun and always a nice surprise when you're playing blind. When the solutions to puzzles aren't clearly defined though, the ceiling for complexity goes way down and the adventure suffers greatly. Case in point TotK dungeons were god awful puzzle wise.
I see that. I think I feel that way more so with the 2001 to 2013 Zelda games. Links awakening, oracle of seasons, oracle of ages, and Majoras mask all have a lot of really clever moments for me. I have a save state before jabu jabus belly on NSO oracle of ages so I can play that one whenever I want. Wind Waker to A link between worlds were all great games but there is definitely a simplicity to their puzzles. Really been loving this new era of Zelda like no other though. My love for clever puzzles goes right out the window when I can spend 30 minutes forcefully cheesing a puzzle with magnesis and a rusty sword 😂
Nah, the best Zelda puzzles don't use items at all, except for maybe as a switch. Usually using some unique element of the dungeon, or the dungeon itself. The best dungeons are ones where the dungeon itself is a huge puzzle. Two of the later dungeons kind of evoke this feeling in EoW, but only lightly.
I'm really glad that Arlo still feels comfortable talking about the low points of this game bc I'm still having a blast while acknowledging them. Like the other comments, I do agree that the notebook can be easier to navigate than the scrollbar for echoes (I ended up using it primarily with the "last used" sorting and the notebook for everything else). Dominant strategy does seem to be an issue with the echoes - You kind of have to spice it up yourself and see how many different ways you can solve things. Give the beds a break! I also hope someday Nintendo can finally give in and just give us graphics options...
Honestly, out of every Zelda game I have played a decent amount of (idk exactly how many that is I want to say about 4-6 before this), so far after playing 8-10(?) hours of the game, it is among my favorites the mechanics are VERY fun to me
I will say that as far as secrets go, they seem to get better later on. I remember coming across entire optional dungeons, fairly difficult caves with unique enemies and a ton of sidequests and collectables. But the Echo system is definitely a bit of a mixed bag in how it's implemented here. The possibilities are incredible, but like with TotK, that might be a problem in of itself. You have so many options and so many of them are so useful that it's easy to just brute force every puzzle and obstacle with the same few Echoes. The beds are powerful early on, but then you get stuff like Crawtulas and Strandtulas and Water Blocks and Flying Tiles and the difficulty of the obstacles kinda just plummets as a result. So about ten Echoes get used over and over again, while another hundred or so sit gathering digital dust. The puzzles also don't really utilise the Echoes that deeply either. Everything's very open-ended, so instead of learning any particular Echo and how it works, it ends up being all like "get to X area/do X task in any way possible". And the UI is just its own issue. How we get this same line setup for three games straight is kinda mindboggling to me. Weapons and shields and bows used it in BotW, which was annoying but not so bad. Then TotK and this game use it for lists of hundreds of items, and it just becomes a chore to find anything. Still, curious to see your final opinion here, since from what I recall, the game gets quite a bit better in the second act, and finishes strong, so it's possible the early areas might just be a poor intro to the game in some ways.
This game feels exactly like previous handheld zelda games. Simple, fun, charming and creative mini Zelda experience. People expecting more are going to be disappointed. I love this type of Zelda as much as the bigger ones.
@@danieljliverslxxxix1164He literally Said "if you're expecting something like Ocarina or Breath of the Wild then this isn't the game for you". A lot of people need to hear that
@pancakes8670 one of my favorite Zelda games is Link Between Worlds. The LA remake recently also made it high onto my list. This is exactly the kind of game I was wanting to play, but I know it's not for everyone.
I am in love with this game, apart from the frame rate issues i really liked the structure of the dungeons and open world. But the frame rate especially in Hyrule field is really tough
For some reason the frame rate and the incredibly tedious menu for selecting echoes doesn’t bother me. Maybe that’s why I have been loving this game more than most.
Arlo you are awesome my man I love that you speak your mind, so I will here too. I honestly feel like the performance of the game was really good not once did I feel like something was wrong, but I did come across some random funny glitches in the game, though nothing to ruin the experience. Love your stuff keep going I can't wait to see more!
I’ve been absolutely loving the game, though I do agree that mid to late game trying to navigate the echo menu is atrocious in the same way as TotK’s fusion menu was. As far as frame rate dips, I haven’t experienced anything remotely like that the entire time and I haven’t heard that complaint from anybody else either.
I'm glad you're having fun and I hope the game clicks for you! This is the first 2D Zelda I've managed to finish, as I've had issues finishing games lately, and I had SO much fun with it. I was both happy and incredibly sad when I finished it. I can agree sifting through the echoes can be cumbersome, but even as someone who went through the trouble of constantly killing every enemy just to see if they were copyable (and ended up with a TON of echoes by the end), I kinda got used to sorting through them! There were also ones that I used far more than others (any other Ignizol fans out there?), so that helped. But just being able to summon and collect little fellas and use them in battle was so very fun, I felt like a summoner! I found the puzzles enjoyable, but I do wish the rewards had been more varied. I personally had almost zero issues with the framerate, but I played the game docked so I don't know if that helped or not. Overall, I REALLY hope they make at least one more game like this. It was way too fun to be a one-off! (◍•ᴗ•◍)💙
having played the whole game I'm genuinely struggling to understand Arlo's framerate complaints...I'm starting to wonder if I'm just incapable of noticing framerate issues
They are there, but in my opinion Arlo is overstating it. You almost have to be looking for the frame drops it to notice ithem. And even then it is a slower game with almost no twich combat. That said, I agree with him that should not be a thing and is outside of Nintendo's usual standard of quality.
The problem with multiple solutions is that everything just works without thought. I think there's a big difference between being engrossed in a great game and turning into a zombie because there's no resistance. I don't think echoes is the worst game or anything, but it leans much closer to the zombie side than I like
@@verygoodfreelancer yes. This game has every right to the claim. Between actual dungeons, interesting bosses, and an actual desire to have actual connections with past games, I would dare say it has even more claim to the title of Proper Zelda game more than Tears of the Kingdom.
One of the things that has helped give me perspective on the puzzles, is watching my wife play and seeing her solve many of them with a completely different combination of echoes. Even in places where I thought the "intended" solution was super obvious.
Sometimes Arlo is like “I don’t know, let me know if you guys want me to make videos talking about X or if you’d prefer Y” and I’m just like, I will watch you make a video about ANYTHING my dude. That’s why this channel has been a godsend from the outset. Thanks for the free entertainment, your community appreciates your output immensely
I liked in the game the variety to solve puzzles with different echos. But in the end you rely on 3-4 different echos to solve 90% of the fights or puzzles. And the 10% times where you need an specific echo, you spend 1-2 minutes to click through the wheel of echos to find the right echo.
I genuinely am having more fun with this game than TotK. I think it does a wonderful job blending the old and new styles of Zelda. I think the puzzles while basic are incredibly fun. And honestly after having gone on a 2D zelda binge over the last year with replaying ALBW and playing minish cap and Link's awakening for the first time, I think you perhaps misremember how complicated the puzzles in those games could be. Of the 3, minish cap probably stumped me the most but still they were all pretty simple, especially the early dungeons. Echoes is pretty in line with the difficulty of all previous 2D Zelda games. It's a real Zelda game, and it's one of the best ones so far.
I don't know if it's because I haven't really played Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, but I'm experiencing that "ah-ha!" Feeling like every hour. Before heading up to Hyrule Castle, I got sucked into filling out the map. I managed to snag some echoes I don't think I was supposed to have access to so early. It made the Castle Dungeon a super fun experience. I am _loving_ this game.
For a company who likes to so carefully tie down their games to be exact and precise, I really don't understand why they dropped the ball so hard with framerate as of late. Nintendo really needs to work out consistency with the way their games run, I will take that any day over a variable that hurts my eyes.
@@bens5859 That's a bad excuse if they actually have that mindset. A good amount of 3DS games were locked at 30 for the Old model and 60 on the New model. If it was like that there wouldn't be a problem. I say this as a guy who gets vertigo from different kinds of motion. This game would give me legitimate headaches.
I got the game day one and have played it to what I am guessing is near completion and haven't noticed frame rate changes at all. Not to say they didn't happen but I didn't notice it.
I agree that the horizontal slide menu thing for echoes is a bit cumbersome, but on the other hand it's been unintentionally hilarious a few times when I panicked, selected something at random, and ended up chucking a meat at an enemy. The enemy was unbothered and I got punched, which felt deserved. Overall, still having a great time. Haven't actually noticed much issue with the frames, tbh
Haven't watched the full video yet but it's kinda funny that you're mixed. Your review on what you played originally is what made me change my mind from not buying the game to buy it and I've been loving it.
The framerate issue is a known switch/grezzo problem. The switch only supports up to double buffering where the standard now adays is triple buffering. This results in the system dropping all the way down to 30fps even if it dips 1 frame below 60. In links awakening it happened every screen transition. Since this game doesn't have many of those it results in regular bouncing between 30 and 60 fps, and is very noticable when zelda stops and starts moving.
I dunno how far you've made it, but i do agree the next two dungeons after Suthorn ruins aren't super challenging. Maybe because they're not sure which you would tackle first? After that though, i felt like difficulty upped some
the framerate issue is caused by lack of triple buffering. it uses double buffering so if it drops even ONE frame under 60, it attempts to lock at 30 (30 being one half of 60, meaning 1 new frame every 2nd frame). on paper this isn't a bad idea... but it takes 2 or 3 seconds to make the change. then, before it's even hit its new limit of 30, it shoots back up to 60 if you're capable of getting 60 again. the result is it's almost constantly in a state of fluctuating wildly between 60 and 30, while never settling on one or the other for that long. it's atrocious. in order to have good frame pacing, you need a frame rate that's divisible of your display's refresh rate. for switch, that would be 60, 30, 20 or 15. any other framerate will stutter like hell. the game never actually drops under 30, but 35 (for example) looks and feels infinitely worse than a locked 30 when the display is 60hz. they need to either add triple buffering so as a frame drop of 1 or 2 will just be a drop of 1 or 2 instead of shooting all the way down to 30, or (honestly the best option): just lock the whole game at 30. it would have perfect frame pacing and no drops. thanks for coming to my ted talk.
That entire part about how "of course it's not actually scary or dark" is just so strange to hear when the bottom of the well in OOT exists, let alone all of Majora.
I do like trying to figure out the puzzles with the Echoes and I feel like I've had those moments that you talk about. I still have yet to have any performance issues with it though. I don't think it's the best Zelda but I am enjoying playing it.
The one time I felt really clever was in the Zora region dungeon. Spoilers under this but When the stairs break and you fall down you can just... climb back up using echoes and use another to jump through the hole and skip the whole initial section. You can just ignore whole water level rising mechanic and climb your way up if you have the boss key. Felt like some good cheese
@@aegisxor oh, that's even funnier When I went back to see the rest of the dungeon I tried teleporting out during the chase sequence down there but they disable teleportation during it So if you do try exploring that zone they block you off
I've been enjoying the hell out of the game, and I do feel like the fun of it really takes some time to unfold, but the progression as you grow more powerful is really enjoyable. My "Aha" moment was when I fought Volvagia. I was getting wrecked running in to attack, and I just started jumping from platform to platform, spawning base Octorocks, and eventually he succumbed to a steady barrage of the weakest projectiles in the game. I felt like that wasn't the way I was supposed to win, but it worked. You can still figure out the right way to beat the boss, but you've got so many options to just figure out a way to make it work.
The frame rate dips and simplicity of the puzzles really aren't bothering me. The inability to effectively organize echoes and the clunky combat are the main issues for me that are bringing down the experience. I'm still having a ton of fun, though.
ZL targetting is the worst thing in the game IMO. I despise the fact that your echos are a targettable object. I get WHY they are so you can directly influence your minions/platforms, but it makes fighting in horded rooms a bitch and a half. It's what I hated in pikmin 4 too, just let me lock onto the actual enemy I want to lock on to.
For those who haven't played it, and are curious about a skeptic's perspective, I offer mine. Keep in mind the entire time I played, I played on Hero Mode, which is available from the get go, and I highly recommend playing with that mode enabled if you find the game too easy. First, I think BotW and TotK are very good games, but one is a terrible Zelda game and the other is only modestly better in that regard. When Echoes was first revealed, I immediately suspected it was a cynical attempt to use the novelty of playing as Zelda as a way to introduce Aonuma's new vision for Zelda into the 2D/top down Zelda space. Everything screamed at me a "New Zelda" experience was inevitable. Well, nearly immediately out of the gate, I can say that fear was put to rest. Having beaten it, and seen the credits, I'm not even sure Aonuma was involved with the game. In fact, the sum total of Nintendo's involvement appear to have been to mandate that the game be as aesthetically close to TotK/BotW as much as possible, with the overall menus, UI, and world mimicking those games. Apart from this surface level affectation, however, the game is completely independent from the core philosophy of the Switch Zeldas. The bosses, dungeons, overworld exploration, and puzzles were, in a word, fantastic. Right there with Capcom's Zelda titles, in my opinion. The sheer content on offer feels unprecedented for a 2D Zelda, as well. Grezzo has solidified themselves, in my mind, as the team I want handling this style of Zelda going forward. Now, I won't pretend the game is flawless. First, let me address the elephant in the room: the combat is really, really bad, especially in the beginning of the game, and only ever rises to the level of serviceable about midway through the story, and hovers around that level for the majority of the game. Late, I'd say it matches something like Minish, but only very late. The main thing I blame for this is the amount of health enemies have, oftentimes double the health of your echo version of said enemy. This feels very unnecessary for this game's style of "auto combat" or whatever you want to call it. A lot of the game's combat is spent standing around while something else does the cool thing, and I personally hate that. What I will say helps offset this is the excellent boss design. You will almost always have something to do during boss fights. It's almost paradoxical the quality of the bosses given the game's combat. It's worth noting that if you are a fan of auto battlers, afk games, slower turn based games, and creature battlers, you may find my critique of the combat nonsensical. Now the other inevitable big complaint is the terrible menu system. Just as I see the downgrade in combat as inevitable in a game you play as Zelda, I view the menus as being similarly inevitable due to the constraints I assume Nintendo forced on Grezzo. A favorite system for Echoes would have obliterated any awkwardness, but because TotK didn't implement one, Grezzo can't be allowed to one up the Zelda team. While I see this as a flaw with the game, I can't genuinely blame it, either. I will say the game has very bland music. I think you can most easily tell that Nintendo had minimal involvement in the project by the quality of the music. The sound design is quite good, though. All in all, I hugely recommend this title if you want a more classic Zelda experience than we've gotten in over a decade. Sending Nintendo a message that you can blend the old and the new much more seamlessly than TotK managed is also valuable. I also think Grezzo deserves a standing ovation for what they pulled off here. I cannot overstate how ready I was to tear this game to pieces, and they completely swung me. I understand if the graphics, combat or menus are off-putting, but I can honestly state that they ultimately did little to affect my enjoyment of the game. Anyway, cheers and have a good day whether or not you read this far!
@@paulroche6969 I never really felt that passive. Probably because of my style of echo spam. I'm sure others just chose a strong echo and waited, and that's fine, but I prefer to be more involved. So I gravitated to using my echoes more like weapons or spells, they rarely get to do more than one attack before I re summon. Caromadillo is an excellent ground projectile, Mothula is somewhat slow and inaccurate but pretty good for the air, and Lizolfos is a mid range stab attack. All of these are actually better when spammed, it makes up for slow build up or innaccuracy. No more Lizolfos jumping around unnecessarily.
@@vanessathomas9641 fair enough, I think that's a perfectly legitimate point, it just never felt that efficient to me that way, until later when I had a higher echo capacity. Even then, I heavily prefer faster paced combat, so the style you describe still feels passive to me, although I like the mindset of them being like spells. I may try to adopt that in a second playthrough.
imo "a terrible X game" is just an arbitrary peace flag between people who don't like the game and people who do. An actual example of that would be link's crossbow training, a game that is aesthetically zelda and does what it sets out to do well, but is completely divorced from any and all zelda fundamentals. Botw and Totk are just exaggerations of specific aspects of the series as well as undermining other aspects, which is natural for a franchise that goes on for so long.
I'm actually genuinely surprised to hear you say the framerate is horrible. I'm about 30 hours into the game, and it's been running fine for me. I'm not denying that the framerate is inconsistent, but throughout my entire playthrough, it hasn't been distracting or disrupting at all. I fail to see how it runs "horrible". It doesn't run perfectly, no, but it runs fine enough in my opinion. But this might be a difference in opinion of what constitutes bad performance vs acceptable performance vs great performance. For me, whether the framerate is constant or variable doesn't matter as much as asking the question "Does it disrupt the flow of the game and your ability to control your character?" A great example of bad performance to me is when a game's performance is so bad that it is the literal reason why you failed at doing something, and you're now being punished by the game for that failure. An example of this would be Banjo-Tooie, which originally ran like shit on the N64. Recently I picked it up, and noticed certain button inputs weren't working entirely as intended due to the bad framerate. THAT to me is what constitutes bad performance. But here, yes, the framerate dips, but in my experience it has never been anywhere close to a disrupting point where it interrupts your flow. Echoes of Wisdom runs as it should for the player to be able to accomplish what they want. To me, that makes the performance acceptable. Not amazing, not bad, just acceptable. Also, it never ceases to amaze me how inconsistent peoples expectations are for performance. This is no shade at you specifically Arlo, I'm just going on a tangent now, but it amazes me how people will say this performance is terrible and unacceptable, but then when FF7 Rebirth came out and had amazing performance in performance mode, everyone complained about how "blurry" the game looked because of it, and everyone all over Twitter was recommending people use Graphics mode instead, which actually does, in my opinion, have awful performance. But people in that case were willing to tolerate performance that was actually really bad for the sake of getting rid of extremely subtle blur that I had to do extreme close up zooms to be able to see. I'm at the point of thinking people care WAY too much about this stuff now. The only explanation is maybe it's due to what TV you use? Maybe people who complain about this have much newer and nicer TV's, while people who don't complain are the ones still on older TV's. The TV I'm playing on is an old 1080p 43 inch Samsung from 2010, so maybe that's why I'm not seeing it? But then again, I recently played Tears of the Kingdom on a brand new 4K TV, which is a game that everyone agrees has terrible performance (which I don't entirely agree with either), and the performance actually seemed better to me on the new TV than my old 2010 TV.
So I think there might be a slight misinterpretation relating to the performance here. While yes the frame rate does jump back and forth, I think the developers were looking to let the player experience 60fps when it could handle it, and then drop the frame cap to 30fps when needed, so that when it does drop below 60fps its not wildly jumping between 50 to 40 to 45 back to 60. you can argue whether or not this is a good way to tackle that particular issue but when looking at the problem under that lens it becomes an issue of "this performance stinks" to "the optimization could have arguably been better". Personally when I played through the game I got used to it and while it was jarring in the castle town, once I was exploring the world it didn't feel as jarring.
Maybe because I have less experience with Zelda or games in general than you do, but I find this game to give me anAHA moment every five minutes. I feel absolutely brilliant playing this game. It makes me feel smart. It’s just the right level of difficulty where it’s hard enough that I have to stop and think and try a couple of different things, but easy enough that I can solve the puzzles without having to look them up. With breath of the wild and tears, I basically had to have a walk-through for over half of the shrines because almost all of them were way too hard.
How is Hero Mode? Did you see the interview with the director Tomomi Sano? She said she was unable to finish Ocariana of Time for being too hard, and now she became the measure stick to make sure the games are not frustrating (not hard at all). So after that I understand why the puzzles are so freaking easy with the newer games.
The Lanayru Dungeon was my favourite one in the whole game. I'll try not to spoil much, but it's the only one that nails the classic dungeon structure, where you see a problem you have to solve and then you go through a bunch of rooms and loop back to solve the final problem.
@@appleofdoom Agreed Lanayru dungeon was by far the best. But I've seen a number of people call it the worst, which might suggest that some of the people who came into the franchise with BotW don't actually want traditional dungeons. Traditional dungeons don't fit the mold of a typical open world game, and some people loved BotW because it resembled a typical open world game.
So far, I have a set of 5-10 utility echos that I use for getting around that has remained pretty constant, and a set of about 3 combat echos that cycles as I get access to stronger things.
Every other issue aside, I think the Miyamoto problem is significantly worse. There is absolutely zero characterisation of Zelda. She could be replaced by any other character and almost nothing would change... Nintendo's myopic war on character and story (i.e., pushed mosty noticeably in Miyamoto's narcissistic media rants) MUST change...
I was always looking forward to this game but didn't think I would love it or anything. Without spoiling anything this game just about ticks off all the boxes on what I would have liked to see in a new 2d zelda. I underestimated this game and I love it.
I’ve had 0 performance issues. But I did find it weird that the main mission is generally just marked on the map. Seems kind if linear in the exploration
So I love this game, but the part that made me emanate a wretched sigh from the depths of my core was trying to make a bunch of smoothies for a boss fight You can't make more than one at once and you have to go through the dialogue and menu every single time We can have different subjective experiences with the gameplay and also acknowledge that it ain't all that well put together in some crucial areas
It's pretty good. I don't know about incredible. Each to their own, but I think this is another Tears of the Kingdom where people will look back on it with mixed feelings
Idk if it's just me, or what, but I've NEVER had any of the performance issues that so many reviewers talk about having in these games. I have not noticed a single dip in framerate in my time playing. I didn't even have that many dips in TotK compared to what reviewers have shown themselves having.
Dude. I am SO glad to hear someone mirroring my sentiments on this game. I’m a huge Zelda fan, but I am STRUGGLING to get into this game. The echoes are neat, and have a lot of cool puzzle potential. Even the summoning enemies to fight for you can be fun. But the whole process is so unwieldy, and selecting appropriate echoes takes so long. And once they’re summoned, it takes ages for them to actually attack! Neat idea and all, but man, I sure do wish Zelda was able to bop baddies with her fancy magic stick, even if it just does minimal damage.
It is not near infinite, it's no where near as open in that manner as BoTW or especially ToTK are. There are just multiple ways to solve puzzles, but the puzzles still feel like classic Zelda. It's honestly way more fresh than just getting one new item per dungeon :)
Couldnt disagree more but I'll be damned if you arent able to share your true feelings! I felt like this game actually works way better than I anticipated as someone who didn't love TOTK. Echoes are a brilliant variation on the Zonai formula that are restricted enough to fit in really well with the traditional puzzles of the dungeons while also being free enough to make the overworld really, really fun to navigate and strategize around. The game feels really free moving, which is a nice change of pace from traditional 2D 2D Link while also maintaining that classic Zelda feel. Story is also coherent and heartful, and this version of Hyrule is a simple but beautiful combination of different Hyrules! Not to mention, I thought I wouldn't love playing as Zelda as I thought she'd just end up replicating whatever Link's role would've been in the game but she ends up being uniquely badass and entirely different in her playstyle than Link!
It feels like a spiritual successor to ALBW even if it's a different team. Both are fresh new takes on classic Zelda that are super fanservicey and full of fun
I'm about 5 hours in, and i totally agree with you Arlo. The game doesn't give you those early signs that there is a set of higher complexity problems waiting for you, so it gives you this feeling of "oh, this might be it, huh." But i am still having fun with it.
Try exploring more than where you are in the story and finding harder caves. There are definitely harder/more complex puzzles than the first two or three dungeons out there.
I've had pretty much the exact same feelings, and have gotten through the first two dungeons. There are so many echoes, but always seem to end up just using the same 3-4 for every problem. The water block has been the only experience so far, where I was like, "wow, that was interesting and clever". I'm hoping there's more of that as I progress more.
When I saw the interviews for the Zelda devs and specifically saw how much they wanted to push this new style of Zelda game and how they just didn’t understand the criticism that was being made against breath of the wild and tears of the kingdom, I basically knew at that point that I probably wouldn’t be able to enjoy the next Zelda games that’ll be coming out in the future and for that reason I decided to listen out for what people say about echoes of wisdom and see if anything about it changes my mind but it seems like the problems I have with the way Zelda is headed aren’t going away with this one. It a shame because I really want to enjoy these games as much as everyone else seems to be able to but what I see as problems, the majority of people don’t seem to have any issue with or the problems just go unnoticed which also means any future Zelda games will probably end up the same.
Honestly, this game is like 90% a traditional zelda and maybe 10% NU zelda. Echoea are basically dungeon items and solutions to puzzles are usually straightforward, there arent that many instances where you can use different strategies to solve a puzzle. This game is among the best 2d zelda games in my opinion and thats coming from someone who hates ToTK.
my only real complaint of the game is that the rewards are meaningless. you spend 20 minutes trying to get a chest only for it to either give you smoothie ingredients you will never use because mango+nectar is the best thing you can make, or it gives you 20 rupees
Am I the only one that can't understand what does Arlo mean? Sorry I haven't noticed that empty world, the bad frame rate... I don't mind the Echos menu since it has different categories and you can go from the last to the first. I'm honestly confused by this impression
Everyone's mentioning performance problems- but my secondhand at least three years old banged up Switch Lite is handling it like a champ. I just really have lucked out so far I guess, haven't noticed any frame rate drops- worse it gets is when it freezes for a moment when I interact with an object in a weird way.
@@toooydoeur I haven't really encountered that much, which is really shocking because it's an issue that almost everyone seems to be getting. Either I'm really unperceptive, really lucky, or both.
For a "Zelda-lite," it's kinda difficult later on since you cannot directly attack enemies most of the time. And the sword energy meter can't save it either... it will run out unless you stock up on smoothies. Probably my only real complaint about the game is combat overall. Shotty performance was an expected so don't expect much (not as bad as other third party games however). Then when it comes to late game, I have a relatively easy time with this setup: * Frog Ring (higher jumps) * First/Second Mastery (lower energy consumption) * Darknut lv3 (ground combat) * Beamos (air combat) * Chompfin (water combat) * Old Bed/Cloud/Flying Tile/Water Block (traversal/climbing) * Lots of binding Can cheese a lot of the navigation with these. Want to get to an area? Climb on top of everything and walk over.
It’s very funny to me how he says that this game, which has far more side content than any previous 2d Zelda game by incredible margins, feels like it’s lacking things to do. There are multiple secret optional dungeons, tons of caves and secret areas with powerful echoes as rewards, and loads of sidequests and mini games on top of all of that.
I got SO excited early when exploring instead of progressing let me find a peahat in a cave. That peahat was my best friend for hours. It's REALLY great to be rewarded with cool new echoes by exploring.
It really feels like someone on the Zelda team has a Thing for scrolling through super long lists of items. Because my word, it's bad enough that it didn't get ironed out at some point in TotK's development, but Echoes also having the exact same problem is really making it seem like a deliberate choice.
God yeah, definitely the worst part of both games
The Harvest Moon games perfected inventory management a long time ago, Zelda should literally do just that, how hard is it to pick the order in which you rotate items and have a quick swap button? It's such an easy fix.
Yeah, how hard is it to make sections for echos for attacking and echos for utility?
The constant 'left/right' movements in BotW/TotK gave my pro controller stick drift when moving the stick left & right. I'm sick of it! It was so annoying for me playing Echoes because of it, too.
They did it intentionally to try and force people to use echoes they don't use as often. Not a great idea
It sounds like trying to pick up the fewest echoes possible would be a fun challenge run. Less cumbersome menu and more restricted puzzling
Honestly one of the sorting options should've been a favorites tab, would've solved a whole lot of issues. I can understand why they didn't though, because it doesn't encourage you to try different things.
There is a most used tab which is kinda a favorites tab but yeah it would’ve been nice to be able to register a list of echoes to choose from
That's actually how I plan to do a second run. I'm only going to echo the items I use or am forced to use. For example, I would only get one of those statues. I don't need four, but I HAVE to get at least two, so those are the only two that I'm going to get.
the minimum is 10 without wrong warping, there has been stuff on that in the speedrun comunity alredy
table required at the start, fire water electricity and wind are all required in 4 different aspects, both animal statues for that one dungeon, the ball required on the forest, bomb fish required for water temple, and the mole in gerudo too; that sums up to 10
it's fun to work around restrictions with that yea
or you can just wrong warp and do it with only 2 lol but what you know
Not realy as most of the Echoes are redundant as the game goes on you're going to slim down your options on the most used tab to Water blocks, Trampoline, old bed, Flying tile, and your prefered/most powerful monster everything else may have niech uses but the 4 echoes I mentioned first can solve almost any problem you come across especially the watter blocks
I really recommend for anyone struggling with navigating echo menu to use the notebook instead of scrolling. I love this game, but the echo selection menu is atrocious 😭. But using the notebook makes selecting them SO much easier.
This. The pop-out selection should be a box, not a single scroll line.
@@thearcanian5921 You fixed it for nintendo.
it really isnt that much faster to use the notebook
it halves the scrolling time but you have to press 3 more buttons and deal with input delay
+ you lose the muscle memory of knowing where the echoes are
I used a combination of both and never had any complaints 👍
Honestly I haven’t had that hard of a time just using the normal menus. If you get a new one to use, go to recently learned. If you want to find a couple you think would be useful for a specific area, pick them using the by type menu and then you can use any of them by using the recently used tab. It’s not the best system but it works.
Beds? No
Trampolines? Yes.
Trampolines arent better than beds..... wtf are yountalking about
I use beds a lot, but I also use trampolines and potted plants a lot (though the trampoline becomes less useful after obtaining an item that doubles Zelda's jump height when equipped). I also use flying tiles a lot; for horizontal distance across gaps, flying tiles are far more useful than beds.
Dont talk pottapoopy about my trampolines @@marcuscostello5635
@@marcuscostello5635honestly water blocks make beds and trampolines completely obsolete, they're the most broken "platforming" echo apart from maybe the flying tile enemies which I've already seen smallant use to glitch into a room for speedrunning strats.
@@marcuscostello5635
They simply are
Selecting the echos you want to use can get really frustrating at times, but apart from that... I'm really loving the game.
The performance hasn't even been bothering me at all somehow.
Ditto. I’m a Nintendo fan. The line for me is pokemon scarlet/violet. Anything better than that I’m fine with.
I have also not experienced any performance issues, and Im on an original switch. I 100% believe Arlo when he says he has experienced issues, but I have yet to personally experience it.
@@Spaceman_Sp1ff I’ve seen ever so slight chug at times, but not nearly enough to bother me
No performance issues. I’m honestly kinda getting annoyed with toxic nintendo fans and sort of gonna be wrapping up my involvement in this community
@@joelsytairo6338people voicing their concerns over issues they have experienced is not toxic. Dismissing their concerns and labeling them as toxic IS (hypocritically) very toxic of you.
Something about the echo gathering and forcing monsters I just found to fight other monsters really does wonders for my goblin brain. The echo selection needs work, but I find switching between most used and recently found gets me most of what I want to use.
I had it on "recently used" pretty much the entire time! A neat trick with that is to just tap left when you open the selection to jump to the end of the "recently used" list - your most recently learned echoes will be right there!
I love most used. And if I pick up something new that I expect I'll want to use a lot, I spam it a bunch to get it fairly high up in the most used section lmao
I love how measured and thoughtful you are when you have a dissenting opinion. I really appreciate it when people try to get to the bottom of why exactly they personally don't like something
I think it's kind of sad that he feels the need to be this preemptively apologetic about having some mixed feelings and mild criticism towards a game, it's not like he was gonna mindlessly bash on it either way. It should be ok to respectfully critique something without having to brace yourself for backlash any time you have things to say that aren't just showering the shiny new thing that everyone loves with endless praise.
@Lorenzo2300 I'd say go scorched earth and just outright say what you don't like at a given moment. If you change you're mind later make another video saying you changed your mind. Fanboys on the internet are annoying but not that scary lol
This comes off more like a half hearted way to tell people "thank you for padding out every single bit of criticism with 30 seconds of apologetic filler" just so people don't feel attacked.
It’s interesting I found myself using beds less and less as I progressed. I was kinda getting tired of it, then I discovered other ways to cross gaps and it’s not so boring
What other ways are there?
@@Poweranimals clouds, water blocks, sometimes I just use a platboom depending on the terrain. You can get creative
Flying tile is OP and I love it
Same here!
Beds are a F.O.O strategy, there are deeper mechanics with better results if you experiment
Arlo: I dont want to ______.
Also Arlo: Proceeds to _______ anyways. 😂
In all seriousness tho, if you dont love it, well, you dont love it. Its just how it goes. No worries.
Wondering if he'd played spirit tracks or a link between worlds, minish cap? Etc.
Because this is not in the mainline like BotW, and Twilight Princess, and etc. This is the handheld Zelda and as far as that goes looks fantastic
@@samf.s.7731 he has. In fact, minish cap is one of his all-time favorite Zelda games.
@@samf.s.7731 He's made a whole video talking about his love for 2D Zelda th-cam.com/video/geF2K9OEfVY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=D-R0Ks5wVqhWLmqg
Literally summarizes his videos. Wastes away video time all worried over whether he should state his opinion and does it anyway. He’s such a baby
@@Mirage475 If he confidently asserts his opinions he gets called a hater. If he tries to softly state his opinions he gets called a baby. He really cannot win with you people lol
Man I love that arlo has topicarlo now. Love getting their off the cuff banter and takes. Such a gift fr
I've honestly come to enjoy it maybe more than the main channel!
@@micahfisher6125 same situation as scott's stash for me lol
As a new player to Zelda, I feel like I’ve had _many_ moments of like, wow that solution to that puzzle was amazing! It’s too bad it didn’t scratch that itch for older players!
There are many old players who enjoy this game like myself. I struggle understanding what people's problem is with the game but everyone is allowed to dislike it. I personally really enjoyed it.
Solutions to botw style puzzles are fuck around until something works.
I've been playing Zelda games since Ocarina of Time, and I'm loving this game so far. I really enjoy the echo mechanic for combat and puzzle-solving, and the only thing I'm really disliking is the addition of swordfighter form.
I don’t think it has anything to do with being an “older” Zelda fan, and more to do with what type of puzzles satisfy you. I’m the most traditional Zelda fan of all traditional Zelda fans and I’ve been incredibly satisfied with this game’s level design so far. But that’s just me.
@@matthewmuir8884 I still don't understand why they didn't give her some sort of direct magic attack that uses the meter instead. Swordfighter mode feels like I'm handing over the reigns.
6:30 trampoline, water, crawling spider and flying tile way outperform beds.
This, beds still have some usages of course, but eventually you find more effective options of traversal, it’s all about experimenting with the echoes and different approaches.
You can literally skip the zora dungeon with the spider
@@YuberichI'm thinking there are people who are rushing through the game without actually attempting to go through it seriously.
The beds do restore your hearts
@@wifi961 Because the game is badly designed.
I always welcome mixed or negative opinions on games. When a game gets rave reviews and I DON’T love it, that’s often when I feel disappointed.
“I want all reviews to match my opinion” isn’t a way to look at reviews. Yes some people will have different experiences and takes on a game and those should exist because they inform people but that doesn’t mean there HAS to be a negative review for something good. Sometimes things that are objectively good just aren’t for you and that’s okay.
Yea other opinions may help bring words into ways you feel about the game you didn't really know how to think.
Personally I love the game but spoiler for the last dungeon.
I wish the game was co op with both link and Zelda with dungeons that can split the players one being link and having classic style combat while Zelda has echos who can summon items and enemies to beat puzzles.
Or just a single player but give you the ability to switch between characters with maybe temples that are link exclusive and others Zelda exclusive but then others that require both.
This game has shown a great way to utilise Zelda as a playable character that isn't just links hack and slash.
@@THEONETRUEOVERLORD True, but it can make you feel like you take crazy pills.
@@THEONETRUEOVERLORDpeople need to know whether games aren't for them.
I felt the same about the game until I started watching play throughs. Seeing other people complete early puzzles in different ways, and hearing my friends describe the different solutions and exploring they did, gives me the impression of a highly replayable Zelda game.
That part I agree, the game pushes you to be creative but at the same time it's way too focused on echoes and the menu scrolling which does get annoying and redundant. It was an interesting experience but should only be a small part of the game.
No replayable, most people will get bored and stop playing before even beating it. I got about 7 hours in, saw just about everything and am bored. Another zelda with bad dungeons
@@chiquita683this is objectively untrue. I’m not sure why you think you speak for “most people”.
@@MrFoolD Its the mechanic the game is based around, it shouldn't be a small part of the game. The UI just could be better. Sorting it helps, and using the start menu one instead, at least.
Sounds to me like it's just not your type of game. You not liking it doesn't mean most people won't finish it lol. The game has replayability for creative people and the different orders you can solve the dungeons.@@chiquita683
There are plenty of secrets. The mole echo is basically your shovel and you can use it to dig up a fair few tri crystals in the overworld. There are definitely a good amount of caves and cracked walls to find, as well. Heart pieces and stamps too.
I big one for me was just how many extra dungeons and bosses you could find just by doing small quest. They added quite a bit to my playtime and I found them pretty enjoyable
compare this map to the link to the past map that they reused for the 3rd time. The exact same areas have been extremely dumbed down in echos. There are a small handful of secrets to find in this new game compared to the buckets in the older ones. Which is why it's feeling empty to a lot of fans. Not to mention the solution to said secret's "puzzle" is usually just, walk up and take it :(
@@zeldarainbow3423 I just 100%ed the game and I gotta disagree with you. There were plenty of secrets in a massive overworld. As someone who loves 2D Zelda games because of all the secrets you find in the overworld, this game more than satisfied me
Sorry to hear that you're mixed about the game. I personally am really loving the game. (Though I do agree that going through the echoes is quite the hassle)
I often find myself going to the menu for Echos that I am not using often. But still loving it.
@@thearcanian5921 same, Immediately realized how much of a hassle then normal menu was so I forced myself to learn to automatically click the notebook button instead 😂
People should have expected that when the inventory UI was just straight botw again.
I'm really loving Echoes of Wisdom as well. The one thing I am not loving is swordfighter form; I like experimenting with the echoes, and swordfighter form feels like an easy default. One would think the meter would make it something to be used sparingly, but it is so easy to replenish the meter, especially in the Still World, and especially after learning how to make smoothies.
I made it a point to myself to use the swordfighter form as little as possible, but certain fights (Ganon) feel built for swordfighter form and not for using echoes/bind.
I‘ve actually never had an issue with that, but I see I‘m in the vast minority.
I always felt the most recent sort to be perfectly suited to my playstile, having my 2 or 3 combat and 3-5 movement and puzzle echoes for the current environment and then just scrolling a bit further right for echoes I hadn’t used that recently or all the way right to try out new ones.
The game never really challenges you to try and think of a solution other than the standard go-to's. There's rareely a puzzle where you can't use a bed, or a combat encounter where just doing damage is the best way to win, even with most boss battles. It's a cool system with a lot of potential, but the end product is extremely shallow and rarely ever actually gives you a reason to think and consider your approach. You CAN approach things differently every time, but the end result is always the same thing, just in a slightly different font.
I completely disagree. I have reached puzzles that require you to do specific things, sure there are still multiple ways to do it, but you can't use a standard go-to in a puzzle that involves lighting things on fire, or what have you.
I think people also need to replay some older Zeldas.........a lot of the puzzles aren't hard or amazing at all. Zelda games are just fun, and this one is too
I swear they needed to just add a "favorites" filter where i could mark ONLY the echoes i wanted and have that as an option.
There is a most used filter
@zeldadonkey1 Yes, but that isn't always helpful. There are some echoes that are useful situational but I still have to work my way back through other echoes I use more often. A favorites list would allow me to select ONLY the ones I want to appear in the menu.
@@boo-rian2717 that is a good point sometimes what you need isn't what you always use
What I love about this game is watching the way my kids solve problems in ways that I couldn't even imagine. Every time I watch them playing, I am surprised by their solutions to the challenges. I keep rethinking my approach to combat and puzzle solving in this game, because I have seen three different approaches to the same puzzle. I love that aspect of the game
Same. I'm playing with my 4yr old and he's having a blast. He calls link "luke" which is cute.
Something I was really hoping to see out of this game is more character from Zelda, but they decided not to give her any dialogue and keep her silent like link, which is kind of a bummer. I was hoping for something like Peach from the first three paper Mario games, she was written really well in those games. I think not giving Zelda a chance to speak in her first staring role is a huge missed opportunity.
Personally, I hate games with mid story and chatty protagonists. If anything, I wish more characters didn't talk in Echoes of Wisdom.
Current Zelda devs are allergic to focus design.
Yeah, I'm loving this game so far, but it would be better if Zelda had dialogue. It also would be better without swordfighter form.
@@matthewmuir8884 Yeah it’s really annoying how Sword fighter mode is on such a small timer, even after upgrading it a few times, and it’s pretty annoying to refill outside of the dungeons. I don’t mind it because sometimes I’d rather just fight traditionally than send out an echo. But at least for the most part it’s optional, I don’t think there’s ever been a time I’ve HAD to use it, though I haven’t finished the game so I guess that could change.
@@Final_Starman For me, the meter isn't the problem at all (I've never had any problem refilling the meter, especially as meter-replenishing potions and smoothies exist); for me, the problems with swordfighter mode are the way it can trivialize some of the combat when used alongside echoes, the way that at least one enemy (Ganon) felt more built around using swordfighter form against it, and the way that the temptation to use it is always there.
Dude… who cares? State your opinion of the game. Don't worry about the sensitive people who throw a fit and cry when other people don't like their favorite corporate product. I'm not a huge fan and so you aren't the only person on this planet that has mixed feelings about it. I genuinely miss old style Zelda. This new era isn't really for me, and it makes me feel better when I see others speak their minds openly about it.
@@Nick-yv1rm I do enjoy this game but what I hate is what you said, when people pussyfoot around having an opinion. I don't know why there's such a big fear of stating opinions on media. It's not like this is spewing bigotry or whatever, something that SHOULD get backlash. This is just "I didn't like a game" or "this doesn't speak to me" and people are cowards.
Same here, I generally think Arlo could be a bit more direct about his opinions. He's a clever guy
@@BJGvideos I think y'all are missing a key bit of perspective (or just didn't think of it) but the human mind tends to have a negativity bias so while he might have tons of people agreeing with him just the handful of people disagreeing with him and being mean about it will be far more noticeable and far more easily remembered.
Totalbiscuit (may he rest in peace) talked about this aspect of content creation and why it could be so detrimental to mental health. Doesn't matter how beloved you are, your mind will still pay more attention to the people who don't like you.
He doesn’t want to give a controversial opinion because he hasn’t finished the game and his opinion might change.
But we live in the cry bully era where nobody is ever allowed to hate anything because it will hurt someone else's precious feelings.
they desperately needed a favorite option for echoes. theres a workaround, spawn your favorite echoes like 50 times and they’ll hopefully stay at the top of most used. it does feel a little simple but i think because of the cartoon style it has to also appeal to kids. with so many echoes options, the solution has to be available to kids
The game clicked with me after the first two dungeons tbh, but when it happened, IT HAPPENED
The UI sucks.
Thats about it, the story/gameplay/world/characters/mini stories/etc are all amazing. Absolutely loving the game rn, great mix of classic Zelda and new Zelda, while also being a new change of pace playing as Zelda.
9/10 for me prob, but haven’t finished it yet, so could go lower or higher.
Tip for you though arlo: Idk how far you are, but you said “The puzzles are very obvious”. They are at the start, but a at a certain point the game takes a huge difficulty curve, and the puzzles start to become less obvious and you have to think more.
Idk if I have some magic switch or smthn, but those “run” problem u mentioned, are non existent for me. The way you explained is very exaggerated, I saw it sometimes, but it immediately switches back. Mines been consistent really well. And even if it was switching super constantly like you explained, to say that it makes it scarlet and violet levels is INSANE, I wouldn’t go that low lmao.
Real, I'd say your enjoyment of the gameplay depends on the person. I thought it was cool to play like a wizard and summon these monsters to fight for me, and for some people that will probably not be as fun. The story isn't AMAZING but it's not bad which makes me happy, it's not confusing or poorly delivered like totk.
You never complained about the UI in Breath of The Wild and Tears Of The Kingdom that are also bad.
The Last mainstream console Zelda game with good UI is Twilight Princess HD.
@@saricubra2867I did complain about those games UI lmao.
@@saricubra2867 bruh people ABSOLUTELY complained about Totk fuse UI what are you on? It’s the same UI as what’s used in EoW.
@@-God_Usopp Man assumed everything abt you without knowing anything abt you
Ive seen the bed complaint a fair bit, which i find funny because i really only use one to heal, and the occasional stairs but i find them so cumbersome to maneuver and place. But once I learned to echo water it replaced any vertical movement i need.
Yeah. Just discovered this because I misinterpreted how the water blocks work in relation to surfaces.
Then I realized how they ACTUALLY work and felt my brain expanded and a light clicked on
... am I going crazy? I played through the entire game and not once did I have an issue with the framerate.
No, I never had a frame rate issue, either.
There's definitely quite a lot of framerate dips. (Unless you've played on an emulator.) Some people are just better at not noticing or ignoring them. I envy them.
Literally... maybe I just don't get the framerate thing in general, I can't for the life of me feel the difference. Maybe at the beginning I felt it a bit too but I wasn't even sure? Never afterwards though, and certainly not enough to find it remotely an issue or a bother whatsoever idk, I also feel a little crazy lol
@@theXyrosMy thing is that, I can see the frame dips, it dips pretty often, but who cares? After like 30 minutes I didnt even notice them anymore. This is not an fps or some fast paced game. Its a top down zelda.
yes you did. this isn’t a pc game where different specs can effect performance, we’re all playing this on the exact same console. you being incapable of noticing it doesn’t mean it’s not there
Beds…until water. 💧
Platboom and clouds would have words with you
trampoline > bed
also spider is my best friend
I knew when they said there were like 200+ Echos that not all of them were going to be useful and that there would be like 10ish that would outshine all of the rest in utility, so I'm not at all disappointed that turned out to be the case.
Transportation/getting around wise, the Trampoline, Bed, and Water Block are all insanely overpowered as well as any enemy Echo that travels in a predictable pattern that you can ride by carrying it or Binding to it.
As someone who spent the last seven years dreading the direction Zelda's been going in, I was actually pleasantly surprised by this game. I will ABSOLUTELY understand the dislike for the menu. That shouldn't have been okay in TOTK and it isn't okay here. But as far as things like the dungeons and story progression go, I'm actually having a nice time with it.
I think it probably should have been MORE linear though, especially if it's gonna be more puzzle focused. The open-ness and up-in-the-air nature of what echoes you could even have kinda messes with that. I was worried the game would just be 2D BOTW/TOTK where freedom's the name of the game, but I'm at least glad you don't get ALL the dungeons to do in any order.
Yeah, the openness probably made things easier than they would otherwise be. I'm thinking of doing a second run with a much more limited echo selection. Not necessarily minimal because that would probably necessitate relying on swordfighter form for combat. But basically just the required ones and a handful of my favorite offensive echoes. Caromadillo ftw, great for anyone who doesn't want to play too passive, it's basically a projectile attack.
I fully agree with you on the overall direction of the franchise, and this is also the first time I've seen anyone talking about how linear it's gameplay structure is, which is also the specific thing I've been wanting to know from reviewers. So genuinely, thank you.
@adeluxe9764 if you liked ALBW you will like this game. It's still restricted enough that it feels much more focused than the last 3d games
@@JeanKP14 Ah, I also didn't care for for ALBW because I thought the open ended structure severely limited the dungeon design. 😄
Thank you though!
I think it's a lot more slow-paced than other Zelda games. We're used to being able to swipe our sword a few times to kill a monster, but in EoW every single encounter with every monster is basically a micro-mini puzzle. The whole game is about puzzles. The sword ability creates an opportunity to do it the old fashioned way, but we don't have endless access to it.
I think it's a really good game, it's just not my style. Like, I had trouble with Oracle of Ages lol
You get some REALLY fast or aggressive echoes after a while. Even something like the black spider is surprisingly fast. So to me, it does start to feel more faster paced once you get those better monster echoes. But I do love figuring out the best echoes to use for fights, imo it's so fresh and I find myself never using swordfighter mode unless I have to
I agree that the performance shouldn't be as bad, but it's doesn't degrade the overall experience very much. But I love this game so far. I'm about half way and I'm having a total blast, very happy with it.
So it's not just me! Some areas were super chunky looking, but I chocked that up to my Gen 1 Switch
Nah screw that. It's lazy design and I refuse to pay for it, with a reused engine to boot.
I had that aha moment. There was a number of puzzles, where I had to do a thing. I came up with a solution involving using water, a box, and then making the box fall at the right time by using a high cost echo. I thought that was the solution to those puzzles! Turned out it was WAY simpler than that lol
The way you describe the puzzles in EoW is how I feel about all of the old 2D Zelda games. I feel like a lot of the old puzzles were just like “oh, use this one thing you have that you only use in this situation and have only ever used in this situation,” and while there’s still an element of that in EoW, it feels so much more satisfying for me to choose from an arsenal of different fun ideas to solve similar problems. I feel like everyone overhypes older 2D zelda problems, but for the most part I never felt they were *that* complex. Always fun, don’t get me wrong, I love 2D Zelda! But I absolutely adore the direction these new games are going in so much more!
Yeah, not saying 2D dungeons couldn't have challenging moments (LA especially) but so much is "use this item to hit switch" or "push block onto button."
In terms of classic 2D Zelda, yeah, sure though I think you are simplifying it some and also downplaying the difference in time between these games. If the same care and attention was given to a traditional 2D Zelda like Link's Awakening remake was, it would no doubt be a new classic. With that said, I couldn't disagree more with this argument for classic 3D Zelda. Yes there's gonna be a linear structure to the puzzles, but because of that, the developers are allowed to build out more creative uses of those elements. When there needs to be a fairly basic solution for things in an open-ended puzzle, it ruins the potential complexity of that puzzle. The appeal of classic Zelda in going into a dungeon getting an item, and then having the developers use the dungeon to showcase how that item is used, is really fun and always a nice surprise when you're playing blind. When the solutions to puzzles aren't clearly defined though, the ceiling for complexity goes way down and the adventure suffers greatly. Case in point TotK dungeons were god awful puzzle wise.
I see that. I think I feel that way more so with the 2001 to 2013 Zelda games. Links awakening, oracle of seasons, oracle of ages, and Majoras mask all have a lot of really clever moments for me. I have a save state before jabu jabus belly on NSO oracle of ages so I can play that one whenever I want. Wind Waker to A link between worlds were all great games but there is definitely a simplicity to their puzzles. Really been loving this new era of Zelda like no other though. My love for clever puzzles goes right out the window when I can spend 30 minutes forcefully cheesing a puzzle with magnesis and a rusty sword 😂
That’s literally every video game puzzle ever. Use this to do this. Idk what tf y’all expect
Nah, the best Zelda puzzles don't use items at all, except for maybe as a switch. Usually using some unique element of the dungeon, or the dungeon itself. The best dungeons are ones where the dungeon itself is a huge puzzle. Two of the later dungeons kind of evoke this feeling in EoW, but only lightly.
I'm really glad that Arlo still feels comfortable talking about the low points of this game bc I'm still having a blast while acknowledging them. Like the other comments, I do agree that the notebook can be easier to navigate than the scrollbar for echoes (I ended up using it primarily with the "last used" sorting and the notebook for everything else). Dominant strategy does seem to be an issue with the echoes - You kind of have to spice it up yourself and see how many different ways you can solve things. Give the beds a break! I also hope someday Nintendo can finally give in and just give us graphics options...
Honestly, out of every Zelda game I have played a decent amount of (idk exactly how many that is I want to say about 4-6 before this), so far after playing 8-10(?) hours of the game, it is among my favorites the mechanics are VERY fun to me
I will say that as far as secrets go, they seem to get better later on. I remember coming across entire optional dungeons, fairly difficult caves with unique enemies and a ton of sidequests and collectables.
But the Echo system is definitely a bit of a mixed bag in how it's implemented here. The possibilities are incredible, but like with TotK, that might be a problem in of itself. You have so many options and so many of them are so useful that it's easy to just brute force every puzzle and obstacle with the same few Echoes. The beds are powerful early on, but then you get stuff like Crawtulas and Strandtulas and Water Blocks and Flying Tiles and the difficulty of the obstacles kinda just plummets as a result. So about ten Echoes get used over and over again, while another hundred or so sit gathering digital dust.
The puzzles also don't really utilise the Echoes that deeply either. Everything's very open-ended, so instead of learning any particular Echo and how it works, it ends up being all like "get to X area/do X task in any way possible".
And the UI is just its own issue. How we get this same line setup for three games straight is kinda mindboggling to me. Weapons and shields and bows used it in BotW, which was annoying but not so bad. Then TotK and this game use it for lists of hundreds of items, and it just becomes a chore to find anything.
Still, curious to see your final opinion here, since from what I recall, the game gets quite a bit better in the second act, and finishes strong, so it's possible the early areas might just be a poor intro to the game in some ways.
It's almost switch two era, time for salty arlo to come back mwahahaha
Yuck
Yesssss
@@joelsytairo6338 you haven't been an arlo fan for very long then lol
@@zacharybrafman402 no I tend to not consider myself “fans” of TH-camrs. I have seen their videos since the early switch days though. Why?
@@joelsytairo6338 Cause arlo used to have a self proclaimed penchant for being salty. It was fun and honest
This game feels exactly like previous handheld zelda games. Simple, fun, charming and creative mini Zelda experience. People expecting more are going to be disappointed. I love this type of Zelda as much as the bigger ones.
You didn't say anything useful.
@@danieljliverslxxxix1164 this is a TH-cam comment, not a metacritic review
@@danieljliverslxxxix1164 whazzock
@@danieljliverslxxxix1164He literally Said "if you're expecting something like Ocarina or Breath of the Wild then this isn't the game for you". A lot of people need to hear that
@pancakes8670 one of my favorite Zelda games is Link Between Worlds. The LA remake recently also made it high onto my list. This is exactly the kind of game I was wanting to play, but I know it's not for everyone.
I am in love with this game, apart from the frame rate issues i really liked the structure of the dungeons and open world. But the frame rate especially in Hyrule field is really tough
For some reason the frame rate and the incredibly tedious menu for selecting echoes doesn’t bother me. Maybe that’s why I have been loving this game more than most.
Arlo you are awesome my man I love that you speak your mind, so I will here too. I honestly feel like the performance of the game was really good not once did I feel like something was wrong, but I did come across some random funny glitches in the game, though nothing to ruin the experience. Love your stuff keep going I can't wait to see more!
I’ve been absolutely loving the game, though I do agree that mid to late game trying to navigate the echo menu is atrocious in the same way as TotK’s fusion menu was. As far as frame rate dips, I haven’t experienced anything remotely like that the entire time and I haven’t heard that complaint from anybody else either.
I'm glad you're having fun and I hope the game clicks for you! This is the first 2D Zelda I've managed to finish, as I've had issues finishing games lately, and I had SO much fun with it. I was both happy and incredibly sad when I finished it. I can agree sifting through the echoes can be cumbersome, but even as someone who went through the trouble of constantly killing every enemy just to see if they were copyable (and ended up with a TON of echoes by the end), I kinda got used to sorting through them! There were also ones that I used far more than others (any other Ignizol fans out there?), so that helped. But just being able to summon and collect little fellas and use them in battle was so very fun, I felt like a summoner! I found the puzzles enjoyable, but I do wish the rewards had been more varied. I personally had almost zero issues with the framerate, but I played the game docked so I don't know if that helped or not. Overall, I REALLY hope they make at least one more game like this. It was way too fun to be a one-off! (◍•ᴗ•◍)💙
having played the whole game I'm genuinely struggling to understand Arlo's framerate complaints...I'm starting to wonder if I'm just incapable of noticing framerate issues
That would be a u issue.
They are there, but in my opinion Arlo is overstating it. You almost have to be looking for the frame drops it to notice ithem. And even then it is a slower game with almost no twich combat. That said, I agree with him that should not be a thing and is outside of Nintendo's usual standard of quality.
Yeah I haven't seen any either and I'm at the cloud mountain
It chugs at specific parts of the overworld, for a couple seconds periodically but is fine indoors
The problem with multiple solutions is that everything just works without thought. I think there's a big difference between being engrossed in a great game and turning into a zombie because there's no resistance. I don't think echoes is the worst game or anything, but it leans much closer to the zombie side than I like
As someone who just 100%ed it today, this is a Proper™️ Zelda game.
#humblebrags lol
@@riokollivier really? because it was made by a contract developer nintendo ships their games out to, who did the 3ds zelda upscales lmao
@@verygoodfreelancer yes. This game has every right to the claim. Between actual dungeons, interesting bosses, and an actual desire to have actual connections with past games, I would dare say it has even more claim to the title of Proper Zelda game more than Tears of the Kingdom.
@@riokollivier anything is better than tears of the kingdom lmao
@@verygoodfreelancer That contract developer is probably the new 2d Zelda dev for all future games.
One of the things that has helped give me perspective on the puzzles, is watching my wife play and seeing her solve many of them with a completely different combination of echoes.
Even in places where I thought the "intended" solution was super obvious.
Sometimes Arlo is like “I don’t know, let me know if you guys want me to make videos talking about X or if you’d prefer Y” and I’m just like, I will watch you make a video about ANYTHING my dude. That’s why this channel has been a godsend from the outset. Thanks for the free entertainment, your community appreciates your output immensely
Yes! Some of my favorite Arlo moments are his recommendations in the Square Space advertisements.
I liked in the game the variety to solve puzzles with different echos.
But in the end you rely on 3-4 different echos to solve 90% of the fights or puzzles.
And the 10% times where you need an specific echo, you spend 1-2 minutes to click through the wheel of echos to find the right echo.
I genuinely am having more fun with this game than TotK. I think it does a wonderful job blending the old and new styles of Zelda.
I think the puzzles while basic are incredibly fun. And honestly after having gone on a 2D zelda binge over the last year with replaying ALBW and playing minish cap and Link's awakening for the first time, I think you perhaps misremember how complicated the puzzles in those games could be. Of the 3, minish cap probably stumped me the most but still they were all pretty simple, especially the early dungeons. Echoes is pretty in line with the difficulty of all previous 2D Zelda games. It's a real Zelda game, and it's one of the best ones so far.
I don't know if it's because I haven't really played Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, but I'm experiencing that "ah-ha!" Feeling like every hour.
Before heading up to Hyrule Castle, I got sucked into filling out the map. I managed to snag some echoes I don't think I was supposed to have access to so early. It made the Castle Dungeon a super fun experience.
I am _loving_ this game.
For a company who likes to so carefully tie down their games to be exact and precise, I really don't understand why they dropped the ball so hard with framerate as of late. Nintendo really needs to work out consistency with the way their games run, I will take that any day over a variable that hurts my eyes.
I think they uncapped the framerate so it can run at a constant 60 fps on switch 2
@@bens5859 That's a bad excuse if they actually have that mindset. A good amount of 3DS games were locked at 30 for the Old model and 60 on the New model. If it was like that there wouldn't be a problem.
I say this as a guy who gets vertigo from different kinds of motion. This game would give me legitimate headaches.
Not even noticing any framerate issues whatsoever
@@beardedgamerdrew5813 I'm glad for you! Unfortunately I was watching Arlo's stream and other gameplay videos. It's there and was very distracting.
I dont know its his capture card or his switch but not a single other person Ive seen playing this game has had framerate issues.
I got the game day one and have played it to what I am guessing is near completion and haven't noticed frame rate changes at all. Not to say they didn't happen but I didn't notice it.
I agree that the horizontal slide menu thing for echoes is a bit cumbersome, but on the other hand it's been unintentionally hilarious a few times when I panicked, selected something at random, and ended up chucking a meat at an enemy. The enemy was unbothered and I got punched, which felt deserved. Overall, still having a great time. Haven't actually noticed much issue with the frames, tbh
Haven't watched the full video yet but it's kinda funny that you're mixed. Your review on what you played originally is what made me change my mind from not buying the game to buy it and I've been loving it.
The framerate issue is a known switch/grezzo problem. The switch only supports up to double buffering where the standard now adays is triple buffering. This results in the system dropping all the way down to 30fps even if it dips 1 frame below 60. In links awakening it happened every screen transition. Since this game doesn't have many of those it results in regular bouncing between 30 and 60 fps, and is very noticable when zelda stops and starts moving.
I dunno how far you've made it, but i do agree the next two dungeons after Suthorn ruins aren't super challenging. Maybe because they're not sure which you would tackle first? After that though, i felt like difficulty upped some
the framerate issue is caused by lack of triple buffering. it uses double buffering so if it drops even ONE frame under 60, it attempts to lock at 30 (30 being one half of 60, meaning 1 new frame every 2nd frame). on paper this isn't a bad idea... but it takes 2 or 3 seconds to make the change. then, before it's even hit its new limit of 30, it shoots back up to 60 if you're capable of getting 60 again. the result is it's almost constantly in a state of fluctuating wildly between 60 and 30, while never settling on one or the other for that long. it's atrocious.
in order to have good frame pacing, you need a frame rate that's divisible of your display's refresh rate. for switch, that would be 60, 30, 20 or 15. any other framerate will stutter like hell. the game never actually drops under 30, but 35 (for example) looks and feels infinitely worse than a locked 30 when the display is 60hz.
they need to either add triple buffering so as a frame drop of 1 or 2 will just be a drop of 1 or 2 instead of shooting all the way down to 30, or (honestly the best option): just lock the whole game at 30. it would have perfect frame pacing and no drops.
thanks for coming to my ted talk.
That entire part about how "of course it's not actually scary or dark"
is just so strange to hear when the bottom of the well in OOT exists, let alone all of Majora.
"I know I have a lot of reviews that I still owe you..."
You don't OWE us anything, Arlo 😊 We love hearing your opinions, but we are not owed them
Ultimately I am sad that Shiuk was not utilized, and they just gave you a Link mode for some reason
You don’t have to take into account other people’s views on this game, we are here to hear your opinions.
I do like trying to figure out the puzzles with the Echoes and I feel like I've had those moments that you talk about. I still have yet to have any performance issues with it though. I don't think it's the best Zelda but I am enjoying playing it.
The one time I felt really clever was in the Zora region dungeon.
Spoilers under this but
When the stairs break and you fall down you can just... climb back up using echoes and use another to jump through the hole and skip the whole initial section. You can just ignore whole water level rising mechanic and climb your way up if you have the boss key. Felt like some good cheese
I wasn't quite that clever, but they
gave me a warp point directly before that happened, so I just warped back and went over 🤷♀
@@aegisxor oh, that's even funnier
When I went back to see the rest of the dungeon I tried teleporting out during the chase sequence down there but they disable teleportation during it
So if you do try exploring that zone they block you off
Yeah, the spider did that for me too. And then I did the whole thing anyway.
I've been enjoying the hell out of the game, and I do feel like the fun of it really takes some time to unfold, but the progression as you grow more powerful is really enjoyable. My "Aha" moment was when I fought Volvagia. I was getting wrecked running in to attack, and I just started jumping from platform to platform, spawning base Octorocks, and eventually he succumbed to a steady barrage of the weakest projectiles in the game. I felt like that wasn't the way I was supposed to win, but it worked. You can still figure out the right way to beat the boss, but you've got so many options to just figure out a way to make it work.
The frame rate dips and simplicity of the puzzles really aren't bothering me. The inability to effectively organize echoes and the clunky combat are the main issues for me that are bringing down the experience. I'm still having a ton of fun, though.
ZL targetting is the worst thing in the game IMO. I despise the fact that your echos are a targettable object. I get WHY they are so you can directly influence your minions/platforms, but it makes fighting in horded rooms a bitch and a half. It's what I hated in pikmin 4 too, just let me lock onto the actual enemy I want to lock on to.
It's Scribblenauts Zelda. I saw that from the first trailer and gave it a pass. Scribblenauts was wide but shallow and this looks the same.
For those who haven't played it, and are curious about a skeptic's perspective, I offer mine. Keep in mind the entire time I played, I played on Hero Mode, which is available from the get go, and I highly recommend playing with that mode enabled if you find the game too easy.
First, I think BotW and TotK are very good games, but one is a terrible Zelda game and the other is only modestly better in that regard. When Echoes was first revealed, I immediately suspected it was a cynical attempt to use the novelty of playing as Zelda as a way to introduce Aonuma's new vision for Zelda into the 2D/top down Zelda space. Everything screamed at me a "New Zelda" experience was inevitable.
Well, nearly immediately out of the gate, I can say that fear was put to rest. Having beaten it, and seen the credits, I'm not even sure Aonuma was involved with the game. In fact, the sum total of Nintendo's involvement appear to have been to mandate that the game be as aesthetically close to TotK/BotW as much as possible, with the overall menus, UI, and world mimicking those games. Apart from this surface level affectation, however, the game is completely independent from the core philosophy of the Switch Zeldas.
The bosses, dungeons, overworld exploration, and puzzles were, in a word, fantastic. Right there with Capcom's Zelda titles, in my opinion. The sheer content on offer feels unprecedented for a 2D Zelda, as well. Grezzo has solidified themselves, in my mind, as the team I want handling this style of Zelda going forward.
Now, I won't pretend the game is flawless. First, let me address the elephant in the room: the combat is really, really bad, especially in the beginning of the game, and only ever rises to the level of serviceable about midway through the story, and hovers around that level for the majority of the game. Late, I'd say it matches something like Minish, but only very late. The main thing I blame for this is the amount of health enemies have, oftentimes double the health of your echo version of said enemy. This feels very unnecessary for this game's style of "auto combat" or whatever you want to call it. A lot of the game's combat is spent standing around while something else does the cool thing, and I personally hate that. What I will say helps offset this is the excellent boss design. You will almost always have something to do during boss fights. It's almost paradoxical the quality of the bosses given the game's combat. It's worth noting that if you are a fan of auto battlers, afk games, slower turn based games, and creature battlers, you may find my critique of the combat nonsensical.
Now the other inevitable big complaint is the terrible menu system. Just as I see the downgrade in combat as inevitable in a game you play as Zelda, I view the menus as being similarly inevitable due to the constraints I assume Nintendo forced on Grezzo. A favorite system for Echoes would have obliterated any awkwardness, but because TotK didn't implement one, Grezzo can't be allowed to one up the Zelda team. While I see this as a flaw with the game, I can't genuinely blame it, either.
I will say the game has very bland music. I think you can most easily tell that Nintendo had minimal involvement in the project by the quality of the music. The sound design is quite good, though.
All in all, I hugely recommend this title if you want a more classic Zelda experience than we've gotten in over a decade. Sending Nintendo a message that you can blend the old and the new much more seamlessly than TotK managed is also valuable. I also think Grezzo deserves a standing ovation for what they pulled off here. I cannot overstate how ready I was to tear this game to pieces, and they completely swung me. I understand if the graphics, combat or menus are off-putting, but I can honestly state that they ultimately did little to affect my enjoyment of the game.
Anyway, cheers and have a good day whether or not you read this far!
I 100% agree what everything you said. Excellent comment.
@@paulroche6969 I never really felt that passive. Probably because of my style of echo spam. I'm sure others just chose a strong echo and waited, and that's fine, but I prefer to be more involved. So I gravitated to using my echoes more like weapons or spells, they rarely get to do more than one attack before I re summon. Caromadillo is an excellent ground projectile, Mothula is somewhat slow and inaccurate but pretty good for the air, and Lizolfos is a mid range stab attack. All of these are actually better when spammed, it makes up for slow build up or innaccuracy. No more Lizolfos jumping around unnecessarily.
@@vanessathomas9641 fair enough, I think that's a perfectly legitimate point, it just never felt that efficient to me that way, until later when I had a higher echo capacity. Even then, I heavily prefer faster paced combat, so the style you describe still feels passive to me, although I like the mindset of them being like spells. I may try to adopt that in a second playthrough.
@@paulroche6969 fair enough, I still did occasionally just say "screw this" and go to swordfighter form to quickly end a fight.
imo "a terrible X game" is just an arbitrary peace flag between people who don't like the game and people who do. An actual example of that would be link's crossbow training, a game that is aesthetically zelda and does what it sets out to do well, but is completely divorced from any and all zelda fundamentals. Botw and Totk are just exaggerations of specific aspects of the series as well as undermining other aspects, which is natural for a franchise that goes on for so long.
I'm actually genuinely surprised to hear you say the framerate is horrible. I'm about 30 hours into the game, and it's been running fine for me. I'm not denying that the framerate is inconsistent, but throughout my entire playthrough, it hasn't been distracting or disrupting at all. I fail to see how it runs "horrible". It doesn't run perfectly, no, but it runs fine enough in my opinion.
But this might be a difference in opinion of what constitutes bad performance vs acceptable performance vs great performance. For me, whether the framerate is constant or variable doesn't matter as much as asking the question "Does it disrupt the flow of the game and your ability to control your character?"
A great example of bad performance to me is when a game's performance is so bad that it is the literal reason why you failed at doing something, and you're now being punished by the game for that failure. An example of this would be Banjo-Tooie, which originally ran like shit on the N64. Recently I picked it up, and noticed certain button inputs weren't working entirely as intended due to the bad framerate. THAT to me is what constitutes bad performance.
But here, yes, the framerate dips, but in my experience it has never been anywhere close to a disrupting point where it interrupts your flow. Echoes of Wisdom runs as it should for the player to be able to accomplish what they want. To me, that makes the performance acceptable. Not amazing, not bad, just acceptable.
Also, it never ceases to amaze me how inconsistent peoples expectations are for performance. This is no shade at you specifically Arlo, I'm just going on a tangent now, but it amazes me how people will say this performance is terrible and unacceptable, but then when FF7 Rebirth came out and had amazing performance in performance mode, everyone complained about how "blurry" the game looked because of it, and everyone all over Twitter was recommending people use Graphics mode instead, which actually does, in my opinion, have awful performance. But people in that case were willing to tolerate performance that was actually really bad for the sake of getting rid of extremely subtle blur that I had to do extreme close up zooms to be able to see. I'm at the point of thinking people care WAY too much about this stuff now.
The only explanation is maybe it's due to what TV you use? Maybe people who complain about this have much newer and nicer TV's, while people who don't complain are the ones still on older TV's. The TV I'm playing on is an old 1080p 43 inch Samsung from 2010, so maybe that's why I'm not seeing it? But then again, I recently played Tears of the Kingdom on a brand new 4K TV, which is a game that everyone agrees has terrible performance (which I don't entirely agree with either), and the performance actually seemed better to me on the new TV than my old 2010 TV.
So I think there might be a slight misinterpretation relating to the performance here.
While yes the frame rate does jump back and forth, I think the developers were looking to let the player experience 60fps when it could handle it, and then drop the frame cap to 30fps when needed, so that when it does drop below 60fps its not wildly jumping between 50 to 40 to 45 back to 60.
you can argue whether or not this is a good way to tackle that particular issue but when looking at the problem under that lens it becomes an issue of "this performance stinks" to "the optimization could have arguably been better". Personally when I played through the game I got used to it and while it was jarring in the castle town, once I was exploring the world it didn't feel as jarring.
Maybe because I have less experience with Zelda or games in general than you do, but I find this game to give me anAHA moment every five minutes. I feel absolutely brilliant playing this game. It makes me feel smart. It’s just the right level of difficulty where it’s hard enough that I have to stop and think and try a couple of different things, but easy enough that I can solve the puzzles without having to look them up. With breath of the wild and tears, I basically had to have a walk-through for over half of the shrines because almost all of them were way too hard.
It's a beautiful marriage between new and old. 2D makes it easier to come up with solutions by being more restrictive
Butternut Squash? Yes Please!
How is Hero Mode?
Did you see the interview with the director Tomomi Sano? She said she was unable to finish Ocariana of Time for being too hard, and now she became the measure stick to make sure the games are not frustrating (not hard at all). So after that I understand why the puzzles are so freaking easy with the newer games.
5:02 the best dungeons are considered to be the last dungeons.
The Lanayru Dungeon was my favourite one in the whole game. I'll try not to spoil much, but it's the only one that nails the classic dungeon structure, where you see a problem you have to solve and then you go through a bunch of rooms and loop back to solve the final problem.
Isn't that how it is with every top down Zelda? Turtle Rock, Eagles Tower, Sword and Shield Maze, etc.?
@@appleofdoom Agreed Lanayru dungeon was by far the best. But I've seen a number of people call it the worst, which might suggest that some of the people who came into the franchise with BotW don't actually want traditional dungeons. Traditional dungeons don't fit the mold of a typical open world game, and some people loved BotW because it resembled a typical open world game.
The Lanayru and Faron dungeons in particular are amazing
So far, I have a set of 5-10 utility echos that I use for getting around that has remained pretty constant, and a set of about 3 combat echos that cycles as I get access to stronger things.
haven’t noticed the frame rate dips you mentioned. I’m really enjoying the game.
Every other issue aside, I think the Miyamoto problem is significantly worse.
There is absolutely zero characterisation of Zelda. She could be replaced by any other character and almost nothing would change...
Nintendo's myopic war on character and story (i.e., pushed mosty noticeably in Miyamoto's narcissistic media rants) MUST change...
I was always looking forward to this game but didn't think I would love it or anything. Without spoiling anything this game just about ticks off all the boxes on what I would have liked to see in a new 2d zelda. I underestimated this game and I love it.
Playing it is just a pure joy to me so far, about 8-10 hours in. It's so much like ALBW but also fresh in its own way and it makes me happy!
I’ve had 0 performance issues. But I did find it weird that the main mission is generally just marked on the map. Seems kind if linear in the exploration
I just finished the game myself and have almost 100% of it and I had fun with it.
No mention of the water cubes tells me he’s got a lot more to play 😅
So I love this game, but the part that made me emanate a wretched sigh from the depths of my core was trying to make a bunch of smoothies for a boss fight
You can't make more than one at once and you have to go through the dialogue and menu every single time
We can have different subjective experiences with the gameplay and also acknowledge that it ain't all that well put together in some crucial areas
Don’t forget to upload that Zelda Let’s Play! I really want to watch!
I rarely disagree with Arlo, but this game is absolutely incredible!
Arlo is right on this one unfortunately
It's pretty good. I don't know about incredible. Each to their own, but I think this is another Tears of the Kingdom where people will look back on it with mixed feelings
Each to their own absolutely! I'm loving this game wholeheartedly. If other people aren't, that's their own perogative. In my opinion I enjoy it!
@@noone-kk2zs It's really good, imo. Longtime series fan here
@@noone-kk2zs hard disagree but that’s just me. Understandable for anyone else to not like it
I only noticed the Frame Rate dipping a few times in this game compared to Link's Awakening.
Idk if it's just me, or what, but I've NEVER had any of the performance issues that so many reviewers talk about having in these games. I have not noticed a single dip in framerate in my time playing. I didn't even have that many dips in TotK compared to what reviewers have shown themselves having.
I haven't had any issues either, if there was any it wasn't noticable enough for me to care
Yay!! I've been waiting for this review! I'm really enjoying it so far!
At first it was beds. Then it was water blocks
Dude. I am SO glad to hear someone mirroring my sentiments on this game. I’m a huge Zelda fan, but I am STRUGGLING to get into this game. The echoes are neat, and have a lot of cool puzzle potential. Even the summoning enemies to fight for you can be fun. But the whole process is so unwieldy, and selecting appropriate echoes takes so long. And once they’re summoned, it takes ages for them to actually attack! Neat idea and all, but man, I sure do wish Zelda was able to bop baddies with her fancy magic stick, even if it just does minimal damage.
i've said it before and i'll say it again. if there are near infinite solutions, there are no puzzles.
EXACTLY
It is not near infinite, it's no where near as open in that manner as BoTW or especially ToTK are. There are just multiple ways to solve puzzles, but the puzzles still feel like classic Zelda. It's honestly way more fresh than just getting one new item per dungeon :)
Couldnt disagree more but I'll be damned if you arent able to share your true feelings! I felt like this game actually works way better than I anticipated as someone who didn't love TOTK. Echoes are a brilliant variation on the Zonai formula that are restricted enough to fit in really well with the traditional puzzles of the dungeons while also being free enough to make the overworld really, really fun to navigate and strategize around. The game feels really free moving, which is a nice change of pace from traditional 2D 2D Link while also maintaining that classic Zelda feel. Story is also coherent and heartful, and this version of Hyrule is a simple but beautiful combination of different Hyrules! Not to mention, I thought I wouldn't love playing as Zelda as I thought she'd just end up replicating whatever Link's role would've been in the game but she ends up being uniquely badass and entirely different in her playstyle than Link!
It feels like a spiritual successor to ALBW even if it's a different team. Both are fresh new takes on classic Zelda that are super fanservicey and full of fun
I'm about 5 hours in, and i totally agree with you Arlo. The game doesn't give you those early signs that there is a set of higher complexity problems waiting for you, so it gives you this feeling of "oh, this might be it, huh." But i am still having fun with it.
Try exploring more than where you are in the story and finding harder caves. There are definitely harder/more complex puzzles than the first two or three dungeons out there.
I've had pretty much the exact same feelings, and have gotten through the first two dungeons. There are so many echoes, but always seem to end up just using the same 3-4 for every problem. The water block has been the only experience so far, where I was like, "wow, that was interesting and clever". I'm hoping there's more of that as I progress more.
When I saw the interviews for the Zelda devs and specifically saw how much they wanted to push this new style of Zelda game and how they just didn’t understand the criticism that was being made against breath of the wild and tears of the kingdom, I basically knew at that point that I probably wouldn’t be able to enjoy the next Zelda games that’ll be coming out in the future and for that reason I decided to listen out for what people say about echoes of wisdom and see if anything about it changes my mind but it seems like the problems I have with the way Zelda is headed aren’t going away with this one. It a shame because I really want to enjoy these games as much as everyone else seems to be able to but what I see as problems, the majority of people don’t seem to have any issue with or the problems just go unnoticed which also means any future Zelda games will probably end up the same.
Honestly, this game is like 90% a traditional zelda and maybe 10% NU zelda. Echoea are basically dungeon items and solutions to puzzles are usually straightforward, there arent that many instances where you can use different strategies to solve a puzzle. This game is among the best 2d zelda games in my opinion and thats coming from someone who hates ToTK.
@@thekbx this comment might be what makes me get the game ha
my only real complaint of the game is that the rewards are meaningless. you spend 20 minutes trying to get a chest only for it to either give you smoothie ingredients you will never use because mango+nectar is the best thing you can make, or it gives you 20 rupees
Am I the only one that can't understand what does Arlo mean? Sorry I haven't noticed that empty world, the bad frame rate... I don't mind the Echos menu since it has different categories and you can go from the last to the first. I'm honestly confused by this impression
Ya honestly I am also confused haha.
When you have over 100 echoes it is a pain finding the one you want
I wish Arlo would stop apologizing for forming his own opinion. your not wrong my guy!
Everyone's mentioning performance problems- but my secondhand at least three years old banged up Switch Lite is handling it like a champ. I just really have lucked out so far I guess, haven't noticed any frame rate drops- worse it gets is when it freezes for a moment when I interact with an object in a weird way.
Its mostly with how inconsistent it is, randomly it will go up to 60 which is worse than a lower more consist framerate
@@toooydoeur I haven't really encountered that much, which is really shocking because it's an issue that almost everyone seems to be getting. Either I'm really unperceptive, really lucky, or both.
@@lemoncakeslemonade5430 definitely unperceptive, it's not that it drops it's that it rises to 60 very randomly and is pretty inconsistent
In handheld mode it's a little better; on TV it's noticeable.
@@Ndragonawa my screen isn't that good, and I'm using it often in places with bad lighting, so that's probably heavily contributing
For a "Zelda-lite," it's kinda difficult later on since you cannot directly attack enemies most of the time. And the sword energy meter can't save it either... it will run out unless you stock up on smoothies. Probably my only real complaint about the game is combat overall. Shotty performance was an expected so don't expect much (not as bad as other third party games however).
Then when it comes to late game, I have a relatively easy time with this setup:
* Frog Ring (higher jumps)
* First/Second Mastery (lower energy consumption)
* Darknut lv3 (ground combat)
* Beamos (air combat)
* Chompfin (water combat)
* Old Bed/Cloud/Flying Tile/Water Block (traversal/climbing)
* Lots of binding
Can cheese a lot of the navigation with these. Want to get to an area? Climb on top of everything and walk over.
It’s very funny to me how he says that this game, which has far more side content than any previous 2d Zelda game by incredible margins, feels like it’s lacking things to do. There are multiple secret optional dungeons, tons of caves and secret areas with powerful echoes as rewards, and loads of sidequests and mini games on top of all of that.
yeah, I think he simply doesn't like this type of game as much as he thought.
I got SO excited early when exploring instead of progressing let me find a peahat in a cave. That peahat was my best friend for hours. It's REALLY great to be rewarded with cool new echoes by exploring.
Missed opportunity for title legend of link echos of wisdom