I’ve been doing Kawai warranty repair for 20+ years. First, I’ve never had to charge a customer for a problem with slip tape. Kawai has paid me for every service. Out of all of the companies for which I work, they are highly pro customer. Second, there are three versions of the slip tape. The early tape had a felt like substrate. The Teflon layer would separate on heavily played keys, exposing the capstan to the adhesive underneath. This caused the key to stick, clack or both. The replacement slip tape had a neoprene (?) substrate. It was the same width as the felt based tape. During replacement, a small amount of silicone oil was applied to the Teflon surface. Some of the pianos with this tape also failed. The third version of the tape is wider and provides a better, larger cushion for the capstan. Again, an important step is the application of silicone oil to the slip tape. As a technician who has performed this procedure many times, I can advise you that all keys must be addressed. The repair takes me about five hours to complete. To date, I have never seen an issue with the third version of the slip tape when properly applied. To back my position, I have ordered an MP11SE for my personal use. If you experience a slip tape issue, contact Kawai with the model and serial number. If you are in southern Florida, I’ll be happy to help you with the repair.
This is interesting and good news. Are you saying, that the models that are now available have a newer better mechanism so the slip tape problem is eliminated? If so do you know what serial number we should be looking for to verify we are purchasing a new/latest model with this fix?
Presently, I don’t have that information. I’ll contact Kawai this week and see what I can learn. I want to emphasize that the info and techniques shown in this video are incorrect and unnecessary. Don’t do it!
A few years ago, about two dozen of the keys on my CA95 began sticking. There was dimpling of the teflon pads as shown in the video, and also, many of the pads had shifted, causing the capstan to rest against adhesive on the pad. I replaced all 88 pads with new teflon as described in this video, and also cleaned all capstans to make sure they no longer had adhesive stuck to them. However, the result was that the keys clicked annoyingly. So I looked on Amazon and found 1mm thick acrylic craft felt tape that was described to be highly abrasion-resistant. I cleaned off the old pads down to the wood and applied the new felt pads I had cut to fit. I applied this on all of the keys so the feel would be uniform across the keyboard. The result was excellent feel and quiet key action. After three more years of use, the keyboard action still feels good, and there is still no clicking sound.
I´ve had to do this multiple times, even repaired already-repaired keys again. Be warned that if you replace the PTFE-layer with thicker PTFE-layer to make it last longer, the thud of each key-press will also make more noise and you get a more mute feel playing. Be especially careful to preserve maximum amount of the original damping mat material when removing the old PTFEs. New double adhesive tape has a tendency to slip off the damping material after playing a while, forcing re-repairs. I would have never bought a new MP11 keyboard if i knew about these issues coming later on. It´s a constant job re-repairing since you cant buy the original materials from kawai who has probably the most non-existent customer support i´ve ever experienced .
Update: I finally got hold of the right material from Kawai. The part is called SLIP TAPE, parts code 954801. It can not be ordered as a privately, only through a authorized Kawai-dealer. It comes in bands which you have to cut to the right size to fit on the keys. You first have to remove any old part and adhesive. It's a lot of work doing this with all 88 keys, but the keyboard feels like new after.
@@psykofarmaka thanks , I have the same problem with my mp11se...🤔.... still in warranty, but for the future its going to help I think.... but its a shame for such an instrument....beside the problem, it has an amazing key action.
@@psykofarmaka But the tape Kawai puts on their MP11 pianos is NOT the right thing for the job. It's just double sided tape intended for other purposes. The keys need something better and we're going to have to figure out what and make it ourselves. I'll definitely not buy a Kawai piano again.
I think I've got the BEST SOLUTION. So on my MP11 I had just three keys sticking (E, F, F#) so my partner and I looked into this last night. Thank goodness he's a mechanic! He decided the best thing would be to cut little squares of plastic from one of those thin clear plastic berry or cherry tomato containers you get at the supermarket. So we carefully removed the original teflon cover from the black pad, as the guy in this video did, we then removed the key and hammer and cleaned the metal post on the hammer with alcohol, and then just pressed the plastic square (we had cut to size) into place. The three keys work perfectly now and there's no clicking or thudding sound and we didn't have to adjust the hammer screw at all. This will probably last longer than any teflon which is flimsy and teflon isn't meant to adhere well. Thank goodness we didn't need to do all 88 keys. It's not so easy to get the hammers back in.
Kawai console digital pianos had the same problem. In the newer models they eliminated the tape and put a piece of plastic in there instead. But if you're "stuck" with one of the older models then you'll be doing this repair time and again.
Thank for the great video. Seeing the Kawai keybed engineering and build, I would never buy the brand. What is wrong with Kawai not doing a recall on correcting this problem? Who wants to be doing this repair periodically? This is why I buy Nord products, except the "Grand" which incorporates a wobbly Kawai keybed.
Dude, you ROCK!!! I couldn't find a Service manual anywhere. I have one key that's clanking against the case. I know it's an easy fix but didn't want to attempt to open it without knowing what I was doing. Thank you SO MUCH!!!
So I solved this in two ways. First I got a roll of 3m ptfe sliptape. I would carefully remove the crappy original ptfe layer from the black, sticky, cushion and wrap the end of the key with ptfe tape making sure i dont compact the black cushion. I would make a full round around the key so the ends of the new slip tape connect at the bottom of the key. It solves the sticking, it doesn't solve the "dent" in the cushion and you dont need to regulate the rotational pin because the slip tape is the same width. Another way was suggested by a guy here on youtube. I got a kind of piano felt roll he suggested in his video, remove the black rectangle, gently clean the key top and glue a piece of that felt. This required regulating the rotational pin because the felt was a bit thicker than the original cushion and you can see it by hammer height (both are 2mm thickness on paper)
I would not have bought mine if I had seen this video before I bought. Strange that Kawai factory quality control folks are not aware of these problems. At the moment I have Two sticky keys…. And will attempt the fix when there r more keys problems. Thanks for the tutorial …… very useful guide.
They are aware of it. People been talking about it for over 4 years and people have messaged kawai. Kawai doesn't fix the current key action problem, they fix it on their new key actions moving forward like the grand feel 3. Kawai doesn't like to admit to any of their issues, they kind of the company that remains silent till the end lol..
5:49 You should have given it another half-turn. If you look at the height of letoff plastic thingy right behind the metal on the hammer, it is at least 3mm higher than the nearest black keys'. if you play both keys together you will probably hear that the key you have fixed is playing first. I thought I'll go crazy regulating this. Eventually I took a ruler and measured the vertical distance between the metal hammer tip and the wooden key under it.
Agreed great video tech help with a problem we should not be having but as you said, (I was thinking the same thing at that point in the video) said to self say what ? They are not near the same height by a couple of millimeters; and not a keyboard that is a big difference in articulation.
It may be necessary to remove the entire pad, as in a few of mine the adhesive itself had started to wear away and the whole pad had slid a few mm off the edge of the key. Search for 'kawai slip tape' to find the part
I would never do it myself. It's good that the successor to this model, which Kawai will introduce next year, will be spared this problem, since it will have a GF3 keyboard.
True. Perhaps the world crisis had an impact. I don't predict anything anymore. The impression is that the successor will never come out. It's taking too long.
I guess I'm lucky. I've owned mine for three years now and I got my first stick key just recently. And I practice heavily for hours. For me I can't complain. It's just normal wear and tear on the piano. Now if I have to do this every six months then we have problems...
Someone here suggested using felt to replace the teflon. NO! The teflon was chosen for its slippery surface. Felt just won't do. Also, the proper fix is to replace the entire pad. The adhesive under the teflon will often give way, allowing the teflon bit to fall away. And the adhesive under the pad can also deteriorate. So ... replace then entire pad. See here: th-cam.com/video/ZcRrvia0k74/w-d-xo.html And do all 88 (or ... at least the center four, heavily used octaves). Otherwise you'll be back to do the job again on the keys you omitted. Also ... I wonder whether nylon would work. It's slick, just like teflon. I'd be interested to see whether a thin piece of nylon could be cemented in place, replacing the entire pad/teflon bit.
Yes I agree you really should replace the entire thing - I just don't know where to source the felt material with adhesive on it. It sounded like it could only be ordered from Kawaii directly.
GREAT VID and thanks for the explanation! found it easiest when you reinsert the hammer and key to raise the hammer like you did and watch as the keys new Teflon pad touches the hammers flat screw and then find the hole and then push the hammer down at the same time you push the key down. That way the hammer screw is in contact with the pad and does not get in front of the pad causing it to bind. Also need to clean the hammer screw flat as it gets sticky adhesive on it. Also the felt pad can become flat so rotate the felt pad 180 deg to the thicker side. Using a 0.4mm thick Teflon pad needed to turn the hammer screw in 3/4 of a turn.
Has anyone figured out a more permanent solution for this? I personally wouldn't want to just replace the deviated teflon with a new piece of teflon just so it happens again in a few years....
You can buy the original felt from Kawai instead of buying a random teflon tape, then you keep the original height and you don't have to tweak the hammer... but of course the same problem of stickiness will occur eventually. That's what happened to me.
Great video , thanks ! Does anyone know if the wonderful and sensitive GF keyboard can be "damaged" by playing hard / with heavy pressure from fingers ( acoustic piano style ) ? In other words, could it make some keys less sensitive compared to the ones that were not played with "heavy hands" by compressing some parts or bending the hammers a little ?
Wait for GF3 action, hopefully soon. GF2 should be considered a design mistake or flaw. It is absolutely CHEESY for some pad to get "dimpled" or deformed by some cheesy round screw head compressing some cheesy pad. Compare GF2 with GF3, and you might agree with me. CHEESY.
I would be surprised if a standard PTFE-Layer just added onto the lower layers of the original sliptape lasted for a reasonable time. I‘d rather replace the sliptape altogether, optimally by some longer lasting material.
It's not zero-point-two inches, it's zero-point-zero-two inches, as shown on the label. Similarly it's not five millimeters, it's zero-point-five a.k.a. half a millimeter. And it probably doesn't even have to be this thick.
Yes I definitely mis-spoke. I think I like the extra thickness - the original teflon is so thin it feels almost like scotch tape. With slightly more thickness I think it cancels out the dimpled pad below better and should last longer. Just my personal opinion though.
loMight you have advice...? I think my sticking is not the Teflon but somewhere up in the two hammer hammer mechanisms. I can hold the key steady and feel the catch when flicking the hammer
I'm not a Kawai tech, so take this with a grain of salt. But perhaps you can find a maintenance manual online that shows you how to access it. Alternatively, you can try unscrewing every screw you see and see if you can get access that way. I'm sure it's not too complicated and there's likely low risk of breaking anything. Good luck!
Thank you! My P11 was stored on its end for 8 months (when I was "Covid-stuck" 3000 miles away) by my landlord. May keys hardly press down without extreme effort, especially in the center. It's unplayable. Do you think this is the fix? Thanks!
Why does mp 11 not have perfect product. It is very bothering to do things like that to fix the stuck pads. Who can you rely on to fix it in a small town where there is no competent man for that
Glad you found it helpful. I'm not really sure how long they last before they need maintenance. I bought my MP11 in used condition pretty recently and I ended up fixing about 10 keys. So assuming the MP11 came out in 2014, the oldest it could be is 6 years. So maybe every 4-6 years, you'd expect to maintain some keys?
@@zrop3 Wow, I bought my MP10 in 2012, intensively toured with it until it recently found a fixed spot in my studio but honestly, it's keyaction still feels like I bought it yesterday. I always thought the MP11 had the better quality keybed and I came very close to trading in my MP10 and buying an MP11 (SE) a few times. However, after having watched your video, which is very well made by the way, I feel I am actually better off by keeping my MP10.
@@w.joseph3751 Yes if you're enjoying it, just keep it. I don't think it makes sense to upgrade unless its a significant leap and will actually help you become a better / more expressive player in some way.
@@w.joseph3751 Yes, you'd better keep it for now. Because next year, Kawai will introduce a successor to the MP11SE, which will use the GFIII keyboard, which finally fixes this long-standing problem. Buying MP11SE now is a short-sighted decision.
@@Oleg__ where do you have that information from? Or is it just guessing? There are a lot of reasons why Kawai will NOT bring out a successor for the MP11SE in the coming years.
Hi, have you come across this problem before? If I try to hit my C4 Key at max velocity, the sound will cut off after an instant, even if i keep the key down. But only if I hit it hard, otherwise the sound has no problem ringing out. Not sure what to do Thanks
Just guessing, it sounds like a sensor contact issue. Are they individual or a strip? If they are individual and all the same you could swap it out with say the very highest note and see if that fixes the problem.
Suppose I’m both a) on a very tight budget and b) the adhesive is no longer holding the Teflon. Can I do an almost-as-good by using double sided tape to re-attach the Teflon and, as to the old dimpled Teflon, can I get away with turning it over so it, although slightly dimpled upward now (small bump), would gradually flatten out through use? And most important question: will any double sided tape do? I could go buy a standard scotch double sided tape, but would that be strong enough? Is there a more optimal (sturdy, permanent) way to attach the Teflon to the felt?
I don't think I would recommend that, but you can try it. It's a little bit odd to me that you have a $2000 or so keyboard and don't have the budget to spend $20 on repair materials. I'm not judging, times are tough, but just thinking out loud. Regarding double sided tape, check your hardware store to see what's appropriate. I think Gorilla tape sells some heavy duty double sided tape, it just might be too thick. There might be an in-between option between Scotch and Gorilla. Best of luck!
@@zrop3 thanks!! Yes I can probably spend $20. I’ll try it! Thanks for the tip!! But the issue about the tape really stands whether I buy new Teflon or not. So you think a basic thin double sided tape will probably hold the Teflon with a reasonably sturdy bond? That’s what I’m most worried about. As to reusing the old Teflon, I guess I meant as a temporarily band-aid approach so I can cheaply and quickly get these keys functioning again. I looked up the Teflon you mentioned and that brand had so many to sort through, I got frustrated and pessimistic I might get the wrong one, or too small or too large a sheet, or slightly incorrect product wasting my scarce money. Often my simplest “nothing can go wrong” projects get this “Murphy’s law” factor, particularly if mail order is involved because I will wait only to be disappointed and have money wasted in the end. So I figured by re-attaching the old Teflon maybe I can minimize a) investment, b) waste, c) disappointment. In the past I’ve tried every band-aid strategy short of using real band-aids, like trading keys from the very ends of the keyboard (that never get played) toward the ones suffering wear-and m-tear. For that matter, I could conceivably “harvest” fresher Teflon from the never-used keys… Yes kind of a sad picture, but I’m accustomed to these desperate-times-desperate-measures approaches. As to my finances, keyboard price, value etc. I bought it used about 13 years ago, it’s actually a Kawai CA-5, but the keys appear essentially the same as on yours, but the hammers don’t seem to come out without a fight, and I don’t want to break anything!! Thanks so much for your insights, helpful advice and obviously sincere interest!! It is a very stressful situation for me as I rely on being able to use this keyboard often for several hours a day, rarely less than 2. Thank so, so very much!!
@@AnonYmous-ry2jn www.mcmaster.com/8569K23/ This is the exact Teflon that I ordered, if that helps you. I think you could try regular doubled sided tape and see if it holds it well enough. The reason I didn't was because I personally never have had good experienced with double sided tape, so if it were me, I would probably just add a small drop of glue on top of the old glue to increase the adhesion.
i just bought a brand new MP11SE. One key has a plastic scratchy sound. Is it the same problem as this? Can you recommend how I can fix it without the trouble of sending the piano back, since I didn't buy it locally. Thanks for your help.
Without hearing it, It's hard to say, but I would likely say that this is the problem. I've had a few keys sound scratchy and it's because the PTFE coating was separating from the felt pad and getting caught on the metal pin when you press the key. If I had you guess, that's probably what's going on in your case as well. Doesn't hurt to open it up and take a look honestly, it's just a few screws.
@@zrop3 it is Always the Same issued, better use Drappstoff from Meyne in Germany, 2mm thickness. I am just doing that instad using Slip Tapes from Kawai.
I just sold my Kawai MP11 after 7 and half years, no issues… maybe 1 x sticky key which i told the buyer about, I sold it to get the newer MP11SE, now after reading the comments on here and seeing this issue will NEVER be fixed no matter how many time it’s repaired!! I don’t know if I want to get an MP11SE 😡 How can Kawai be allowed to sell these digital pianos with issues!! I heard from a local technician today that it’s caused by the glue melting when stupid MP11 owners put their MP11’s by a radiator and that doesn’t help!
Well I'm certainly not a "stupid owner" like your tech stated. And I never had my piano by any heat. This is caused by normal wear and tear over many years of playing.
I was about to buy a second-hand Kawai and now I see this? Seems very time consuming tbh and I don't want to fix piano's and play instead. Should I back off from Kawai??
It's your call. I bought this unit second hand. Besides this issue, it has been working flawlessly for the last few years. The full-length piano keys and real hammers are nearly second to none in terms of key feel.
@@zrop3 I bought it as well now. The action feels good. The only thing that is that it doesn't really feel as a grand when playing fast single note repetitions. It kinda lacks double escapment as a grand has. How's your view on that?
@@FunSketchMovies I guess now that you mention that, yes I would agree with you. I couldn't quite put my finger on why it felt like 95% like a real piano but not 100% and that must be it. The hammer action feels like it has a tiny bit too much travel and it feels like a "whack" more than a hit. Hope you enjoy it though. It's about the best you can get.
@@AlexeyRome I still have another older Yamaha Clavinova piano (15 years old) with their good old GH action. It still does a MUCH better job when playing thrills and single note repetitions. Kawai does feel more authentic but the slower returning keys are a pain in the ass and it feels little too 'mush/spongy' for my taste. I notice the slow key return problem as well in some other stage piano's trying to mimic a real acoustic's behaviour.
I mean you could buy a whole new anything. I don't understand why you would want to buy new keys when the replacement slip pads cost just a few cents but do what makes sense to you!
Your call. You can always try it yourself and if you can't do it, then pay someone to fix it. You're really making a $10 bet with a $400 upside. Worth it to me.
I’ve been doing Kawai warranty repair for 20+ years. First, I’ve never had to charge a customer for a problem with slip tape. Kawai has paid me for every service. Out of all of the companies for which I work, they are highly pro customer.
Second, there are three versions of the slip tape. The early tape had a felt like substrate. The Teflon layer would separate on heavily played keys, exposing the capstan to the adhesive underneath. This caused the key to stick, clack or both. The replacement slip tape had a neoprene (?) substrate. It was the same width as the felt based tape. During replacement, a small amount of silicone oil was applied to the Teflon surface. Some of the pianos with this tape also failed. The third version of the tape is wider and provides a better, larger cushion for the capstan. Again, an important step is the application of silicone oil to the slip tape.
As a technician who has performed this procedure many times, I can advise you that all keys must be addressed. The repair takes me about five hours to complete. To date, I have never seen an issue with the third version of the slip tape when properly applied. To back my position, I have ordered an MP11SE for my personal use. If you experience a slip tape issue, contact Kawai with the model and serial number. If you are in southern Florida, I’ll be happy to help you with the repair.
This is interesting and good news. Are you saying, that the models that are now available have a newer better mechanism so the slip tape problem is eliminated? If so do you know what serial number we should be looking for to verify we are purchasing a new/latest model with this fix?
Presently, I don’t have that information. I’ll contact Kawai this week and see what I can learn. I want to emphasize that the info and techniques shown in this video are incorrect and unnecessary. Don’t do it!
What about the idea of replacing it with felt? There are other folks suggesting that as a longer-lasting alternative.
A few years ago, about two dozen of the keys on my CA95 began sticking. There was dimpling of the teflon pads as shown in the video, and also, many of the pads had shifted, causing the capstan to rest against adhesive on the pad.
I replaced all 88 pads with new teflon as described in this video, and also cleaned all capstans to make sure they no longer had adhesive stuck to them. However, the result was that the keys clicked annoyingly. So I looked on Amazon and found 1mm thick acrylic craft felt tape that was described to be highly abrasion-resistant. I cleaned off the old pads down to the wood and applied the new felt pads I had cut to fit. I applied this on all of the keys so the feel would be uniform across the keyboard.
The result was excellent feel and quiet key action. After three more years of use, the keyboard action still feels good, and there is still no clicking sound.
I´ve had to do this multiple times, even repaired already-repaired keys again. Be warned that if you replace the PTFE-layer with thicker PTFE-layer to make it last longer, the thud of each key-press will also make more noise and you get a more mute feel playing. Be especially careful to preserve maximum amount of the original damping mat material when removing the old PTFEs. New double adhesive tape has a tendency to slip off the damping material after playing a while, forcing re-repairs.
I would have never bought a new MP11 keyboard if i knew about these issues coming later on. It´s a constant job re-repairing since you cant buy the original materials from kawai who has probably the most non-existent customer support i´ve ever experienced .
Update: I finally got hold of the right material from Kawai. The part is called SLIP TAPE, parts code 954801. It can not be ordered as a privately, only through a authorized Kawai-dealer. It comes in bands which you have to cut to the right size to fit on the keys. You first have to remove any old part and adhesive. It's a lot of work doing this with all 88 keys, but the keyboard feels like new after.
@@psykofarmaka thanks , I have the same problem with my mp11se...🤔.... still in warranty, but for the future its going to help I think.... but its a shame for such an instrument....beside the problem, it has an amazing key action.
@@psykofarmaka But the tape Kawai puts on their MP11 pianos is NOT the right thing for the job. It's just double sided tape intended for other purposes. The keys need something better and we're going to have to figure out what and make it ourselves. I'll definitely not buy a Kawai piano again.
I think I've got the BEST SOLUTION.
So on my MP11 I had just three keys sticking (E, F, F#) so my partner and I looked into this last night. Thank goodness he's a mechanic! He decided the best thing would be to cut little squares of plastic from one of those thin clear plastic berry or cherry tomato containers you get at the supermarket. So we carefully removed the original teflon cover from the black pad, as the guy in this video did, we then removed the key and hammer and cleaned the metal post on the hammer with alcohol, and then just pressed the plastic square (we had cut to size) into place. The three keys work perfectly now and there's no clicking or thudding sound and we didn't have to adjust the hammer screw at all. This will probably last longer than any teflon which is flimsy and teflon isn't meant to adhere well. Thank goodness we didn't need to do all 88 keys. It's not so easy to get the hammers back in.
Kawai console digital pianos had the same problem.
In the newer models they eliminated the tape and put a piece of plastic in there instead.
But if you're "stuck" with one of the older models then you'll be doing this repair time and again.
Thank for the great video. Seeing the Kawai keybed engineering and build, I would never buy the brand. What is wrong with Kawai not doing a recall on correcting this problem? Who wants to be doing this repair periodically? This is why I buy Nord products, except the "Grand" which incorporates a wobbly Kawai keybed.
This may have tipped the scales so that I will be able to invest in a Mp11se. Been sweating this issue for a few weeks. Thanks very much.
Dude, you ROCK!!! I couldn't find a Service manual anywhere. I have one key that's clanking against the case. I know it's an easy fix but didn't want to attempt to open it without knowing what I was doing. Thank you SO MUCH!!!
So I solved this in two ways. First I got a roll of 3m ptfe sliptape. I would carefully remove the crappy original ptfe layer from the black, sticky, cushion and wrap the end of the key with ptfe tape making sure i dont compact the black cushion. I would make a full round around the key so the ends of the new slip tape connect at the bottom of the key. It solves the sticking, it doesn't solve the "dent" in the cushion and you dont need to regulate the rotational pin because the slip tape is the same width.
Another way was suggested by a guy here on youtube. I got a kind of piano felt roll he suggested in his video, remove the black rectangle, gently clean the key top and glue a piece of that felt. This required regulating the rotational pin because the felt was a bit thicker than the original cushion and you can see it by hammer height (both are 2mm thickness on paper)
I would not have bought mine if I had seen this video before I bought. Strange that Kawai factory quality control folks are not aware of these problems. At the moment I have Two sticky keys…. And will attempt the fix when there r more keys problems. Thanks for the tutorial …… very useful guide.
They are aware of it. People been talking about it for over 4 years and people have messaged kawai. Kawai doesn't fix the current key action problem, they fix it on their new key actions moving forward like the grand feel 3. Kawai doesn't like to admit to any of their issues, they kind of the company that remains silent till the end lol..
@@masonjahncke7844 so Korg better
I too wouldn't have bought my very expensive Kawai digital piano if I'd known about this problem!
5:49 You should have given it another half-turn. If you look at the height of letoff plastic thingy right behind the metal on the hammer, it is at least 3mm higher than the nearest black keys'.
if you play both keys together you will probably hear that the key you have fixed is playing first.
I thought I'll go crazy regulating this. Eventually I took a ruler and measured the vertical distance between the metal hammer tip and the wooden key under it.
Agreed great video tech help with a problem we should not be having but as you said, (I was thinking the same thing at that point in the video) said to self say what ? They are not near the same height by a couple of millimeters; and not a keyboard that is a big difference in articulation.
Bought one a few months ago.... this could be helpfull in the future.....👍👍
It may be necessary to remove the entire pad, as in a few of mine the adhesive itself had started to wear away and the whole pad had slid a few mm off the edge of the key. Search for 'kawai slip tape' to find the part
I would never do it myself. It's good that the successor to this model, which Kawai will introduce next year, will be spared this problem, since it will have a GF3 keyboard.
Hello. How do you know this information? Is there an official announcement?
@@LJCarrful Own observations, constant monitoring of some sources and long-term and successful analytics. )
@@channelthechannel Unlike you, my thought process takes place in my head. So don't spread your personal experience to others. :D
No mp11se successor yet...
True. Perhaps the world crisis had an impact. I don't predict anything anymore. The impression is that the successor will never come out. It's taking too long.
Wow. Thanks. I'm thinking of replacing the Teflon pads with felt.
Did you end up doing so? Keen to understand how you went as I was thinking the same.
@@simonlane9 +1
I guess I'm lucky. I've owned mine for three years now and I got my first stick key just recently. And I practice heavily for hours. For me I can't complain. It's just normal wear and tear on the piano. Now if I have to do this every six months then we have problems...
Someone here suggested using felt to replace the teflon. NO! The teflon was chosen for its slippery surface. Felt just won't do.
Also, the proper fix is to replace the entire pad. The adhesive under the teflon will often give way, allowing the teflon bit to fall away.
And the adhesive under the pad can also deteriorate. So ... replace then entire pad.
See here: th-cam.com/video/ZcRrvia0k74/w-d-xo.html
And do all 88 (or ... at least the center four, heavily used octaves). Otherwise you'll be back to do the job again on the keys you omitted.
Also ... I wonder whether nylon would work. It's slick, just like teflon.
I'd be interested to see whether a thin piece of nylon could be cemented in place, replacing the entire pad/teflon bit.
Yes I agree you really should replace the entire thing - I just don't know where to source the felt material with adhesive on it. It sounded like it could only be ordered from Kawaii directly.
GREAT VID and thanks for the explanation! found it easiest when you reinsert the hammer and key to raise the hammer like you did and watch as the keys new Teflon pad touches the hammers flat screw and then find the hole and then push the hammer down at the same time you push the key down. That way the hammer screw is in contact with the pad and does not get in front of the pad causing it to bind. Also need to clean the hammer screw flat as it gets sticky adhesive on it. Also the felt pad can become flat so rotate the felt pad 180 deg to the thicker side. Using a 0.4mm thick Teflon pad needed to turn the hammer screw in 3/4 of a turn.
Great tutorial, thanks. Btw. Is it possible to put there piano felt just like in real pianos, instead of teflon, anyone tried?
Has anyone figured out a more permanent solution for this? I personally wouldn't want to just replace the deviated teflon with a new piece of teflon just so it happens again in a few years....
You can buy the original felt from Kawai instead of buying a random teflon tape, then you keep the original height and you don't have to tweak the hammer... but of course the same problem of stickiness will occur eventually. That's what happened to me.
Do the same principals apply to the mp7se ?
Great video , thanks !
Does anyone know if the wonderful and sensitive GF keyboard can be "damaged" by playing hard / with heavy pressure from fingers ( acoustic piano style ) ?
In other words, could it make some keys less sensitive compared to the ones that were not played with "heavy hands" by compressing some parts or bending the hammers a little ?
Wait for GF3 action, hopefully soon. GF2 should be considered a design mistake or flaw. It is absolutely CHEESY for some pad to get "dimpled" or deformed by some cheesy round screw head compressing some cheesy pad. Compare GF2 with GF3, and you might agree with me.
CHEESY.
SO THIS problem doesnt affect KAWAI VPC1, CA49,59,48,58( GF COMPACT)??
I would be surprised if a standard PTFE-Layer just added onto the lower layers of the original sliptape lasted for a reasonable time. I‘d rather replace the sliptape altogether, optimally by some longer lasting material.
th-cam.com/video/_JgxV9jCqnw/w-d-xo.html
It's not zero-point-two inches, it's zero-point-zero-two inches, as shown on the label. Similarly it's not five millimeters, it's zero-point-five a.k.a. half a millimeter. And it probably doesn't even have to be this thick.
Yes I definitely mis-spoke. I think I like the extra thickness - the original teflon is so thin it feels almost like scotch tape. With slightly more thickness I think it cancels out the dimpled pad below better and should last longer. Just my personal opinion though.
loMight you have advice...? I think my sticking is not the Teflon but somewhere up in the two hammer hammer mechanisms. I can hold the key steady and feel the catch when flicking the hammer
this is kinda depressing. What would be a good alternative to this piano then?
Thank you!
New fam here..tnx for this bro
Great tutorial!
I have the same problem on my CS11. Do you know how I could open the piano to access the keyboard?
I'm not a Kawai tech, so take this with a grain of salt. But perhaps you can find a maintenance manual online that shows you how to access it. Alternatively, you can try unscrewing every screw you see and see if you can get access that way. I'm sure it's not too complicated and there's likely low risk of breaking anything. Good luck!
Thank you! My P11 was stored on its end for 8 months (when I was "Covid-stuck" 3000 miles away) by my landlord. May keys hardly press down without extreme effort, especially in the center. It's unplayable. Do you think this is the fix? Thanks!
Do you have any fix for black keys noise when let off not all ?
Why does mp 11 not have perfect product. It is very bothering to do things like that to fix the stuck pads. Who can you rely on to fix it in a small town where there is no competent man for that
Great tutorial.
How often do you have to do this btw? First time fixing since mp11se came out?
Glad you found it helpful. I'm not really sure how long they last before they need maintenance. I bought my MP11 in used condition pretty recently and I ended up fixing about 10 keys. So assuming the MP11 came out in 2014, the oldest it could be is 6 years. So maybe every 4-6 years, you'd expect to maintain some keys?
@@zrop3 Wow, I bought my MP10 in 2012, intensively toured with it until it recently found a fixed spot in my studio but honestly, it's keyaction still feels like I bought it yesterday. I always thought the MP11 had the better quality keybed and I came very close to trading in my MP10 and buying an MP11 (SE) a few times. However, after having watched your video, which is very well made by the way, I feel I am actually better off by keeping my MP10.
@@w.joseph3751 Yes if you're enjoying it, just keep it. I don't think it makes sense to upgrade unless its a significant leap and will actually help you become a better / more expressive player in some way.
@@w.joseph3751 Yes, you'd better keep it for now. Because next year, Kawai will introduce a successor to the MP11SE, which will use the GFIII keyboard, which finally fixes this long-standing problem. Buying MP11SE now is a short-sighted decision.
@@Oleg__ where do you have that information from? Or is it just guessing? There are a lot of reasons why Kawai will NOT bring out a successor for the MP11SE in the coming years.
I send kawai ask to repair but there was no any reply for several time
Hi, have you come across this problem before? If I try to hit my C4 Key at max velocity, the sound will cut off after an instant, even if i keep the key down. But only if I hit it hard, otherwise the sound has no problem ringing out.
Not sure what to do
Thanks
Just guessing, it sounds like a sensor contact issue. Are they individual or a strip? If they are individual and all the same you could swap it out with say the very highest note and see if that fixes the problem.
Hi J L, did you resolve this issue? I'm dealing with the same.
@@lisnup I have not haha. Just been playing on an upright piano. I will try @Internet Privacy Advocate 's suggestion soon though, maybe it will work
I will try that, thank you for your suggestion
@@JL-rg8lt Any luck getting this resolved? I have the same problem on a customer's NV5
Great video thanks. Is the ca93 a similar design keyboard? Regards stormer
I would assume it's similar. It's RM3 vs Grand Feel which is what is on the MP11.
@@zrop3 great thanks, I will dig in this week and find out.. Regards stormer
Suppose I’m both a) on a very tight budget and b) the adhesive is no longer holding the Teflon. Can I do an almost-as-good by using double sided tape to re-attach the Teflon and, as to the old dimpled Teflon, can I get away with turning it over so it, although slightly dimpled upward now (small bump), would gradually flatten out through use?
And most important question: will any double sided tape do? I could go buy a standard scotch double sided tape, but would that be strong enough? Is there a more optimal (sturdy, permanent) way to attach the Teflon to the felt?
I don't think I would recommend that, but you can try it. It's a little bit odd to me that you have a $2000 or so keyboard and don't have the budget to spend $20 on repair materials. I'm not judging, times are tough, but just thinking out loud. Regarding double sided tape, check your hardware store to see what's appropriate. I think Gorilla tape sells some heavy duty double sided tape, it just might be too thick. There might be an in-between option between Scotch and Gorilla. Best of luck!
@@zrop3 thanks!! Yes I can probably spend $20. I’ll try it! Thanks for the tip!! But the issue about the tape really stands whether I buy new Teflon or not. So you think a basic thin double sided tape will probably hold the Teflon with a reasonably sturdy bond? That’s what I’m most worried about. As to reusing the old Teflon, I guess I meant as a temporarily band-aid approach so I can cheaply and quickly get these keys functioning again. I looked up the Teflon you mentioned and that brand had so many to sort through, I got frustrated and pessimistic I might get the wrong one, or too small or too large a sheet, or slightly incorrect product wasting my scarce money. Often my simplest “nothing can go wrong” projects get this “Murphy’s law” factor, particularly if mail order is involved because I will wait only to be disappointed and have money wasted in the end. So I figured by re-attaching the old Teflon maybe I can minimize a) investment, b) waste, c) disappointment.
In the past I’ve tried every band-aid strategy short of using real band-aids, like trading keys from the very ends of the keyboard (that never get played) toward the ones suffering wear-and m-tear. For that matter, I could conceivably “harvest” fresher Teflon from the never-used keys…
Yes kind of a sad picture, but I’m accustomed to these desperate-times-desperate-measures approaches.
As to my finances, keyboard price, value etc. I bought it used about 13 years ago, it’s actually a Kawai CA-5, but the keys appear essentially the same as on yours, but the hammers don’t seem to come out without a fight, and I don’t want to break anything!!
Thanks so much for your insights, helpful advice and obviously sincere interest!! It is a very stressful situation for me as I rely on being able to use this keyboard often for several hours a day, rarely less than 2. Thank so, so very much!!
@@AnonYmous-ry2jn www.mcmaster.com/8569K23/
This is the exact Teflon that I ordered, if that helps you. I think you could try regular doubled sided tape and see if it holds it well enough. The reason I didn't was because I personally never have had good experienced with double sided tape, so if it were me, I would probably just add a small drop of glue on top of the old glue to increase the adhesion.
@@zrop3 what kind of glue would stick to Teflon? Thanks so, so much again! Will order the Teflon!!
i just bought a brand new MP11SE. One key has a plastic scratchy sound. Is it the same problem as this? Can you recommend how I can fix it without the trouble of sending the piano back, since I didn't buy it locally. Thanks for your help.
Without hearing it, It's hard to say, but I would likely say that this is the problem. I've had a few keys sound scratchy and it's because the PTFE coating was separating from the felt pad and getting caught on the metal pin when you press the key. If I had you guess, that's probably what's going on in your case as well. Doesn't hurt to open it up and take a look honestly, it's just a few screws.
@@zrop3 Thanks for the reply. Your video is very helpful. I will open it up and see.
@@zrop3 it is Always the Same issued, better use Drappstoff from Meyne in Germany, 2mm thickness. I am just doing that instad using Slip Tapes from Kawai.
does it have seals? can I unscrew the screws without losing the warranty?
I don't think there are seals - at leas there weren't on mine. I bought mine used thought and maybe someone was in there before. Best of luck!
If it's under warranty, then have Kawai fix it, right?
I just sold my Kawai MP11 after 7 and half years, no issues… maybe 1 x sticky key which i told the buyer about, I sold it to get the newer MP11SE, now after reading the comments on here and seeing this issue will NEVER be fixed no matter how many time it’s repaired!! I don’t know if I want to get an MP11SE 😡 How can Kawai be allowed to sell these digital pianos with issues!! I heard from a local technician today that it’s caused by the glue melting when stupid MP11 owners put their MP11’s by a radiator and that doesn’t help!
Well I'm certainly not a "stupid owner" like your tech stated. And I never had my piano by any heat. This is caused by normal wear and tear over many years of playing.
Anyone knows if the MP11SE has got the same issue? Tx
It does unfortunately :(
I was about to buy a second-hand Kawai and now I see this? Seems very time consuming tbh and I don't want to fix piano's and play instead. Should I back off from Kawai??
It's your call. I bought this unit second hand. Besides this issue, it has been working flawlessly for the last few years. The full-length piano keys and real hammers are nearly second to none in terms of key feel.
@@zrop3 Thank you for your reply
@@zrop3 I bought it as well now. The action feels good. The only thing that is that it doesn't really feel as a grand when playing fast single note repetitions. It kinda lacks double escapment as a grand has. How's your view on that?
@@FunSketchMovies I guess now that you mention that, yes I would agree with you. I couldn't quite put my finger on why it felt like 95% like a real piano but not 100% and that must be it. The hammer action feels like it has a tiny bit too much travel and it feels like a "whack" more than a hit. Hope you enjoy it though. It's about the best you can get.
@@AlexeyRome I still have another older Yamaha Clavinova piano (15 years old) with their good old GH action. It still does a MUCH better job when playing thrills and single note repetitions. Kawai does feel more authentic but the slower returning keys are a pain in the ass and it feels little too 'mush/spongy' for my taste. I notice the slow key return problem as well in some other stage piano's trying to mimic a real acoustic's behaviour.
can't you just buy a few new keys?
I mean you could buy a whole new anything. I don't understand why you would want to buy new keys when the replacement slip pads cost just a few cents but do what makes sense to you!
@@zrop3ok thanks for your input
do I dare to do this....... that's the question. Four keys stuck, 400euro to fix I'm quoted
Your call. You can always try it yourself and if you can't do it, then pay someone to fix it. You're really making a $10 bet with a $400 upside. Worth it to me.
ok, I'm going in. And thank you for the video man!
Never want to buy kawai mp 11