No I use the old standard , sit on seat with heel easy on pedal at bottom of stroke . Works out at 30.5 inch for me with 160mm cranks .And seat position with behind my knee cap above c/l of pedal. BUT. I looked at a manufacturers chart and they reckoned for my height (5’5’’)a 27” seat to pedal. My inside leg is 31”. My problem is a short back.
I tend to run into component configuration issues (stem length, 20mm offset seat posts) rather than what I would call pure frame size issues. It took a while for me to sort out why I wasn't really comfortable riding the bike I bought in 2018 and found a couple of component replacements fixed the issues I was having. When I bought a new bike last summer I had a discussion with my LBS regarding "complementary component changes" to improve bike fit, was pretty much told the bike comes as configured but they would be willing to make any changes if I paid for the parts and labor to do so. On that bike I haven't needed to make any geometry changes, although I did chuck the stock tires in the bin after the first ride.
When I picked out my road bike last year, the clerk suggested a size L (TT length 56 cm) bike. Well for a first road bike with a 100 mm stem the reach was way too long (26M, 183 cm), but being a newbie I know nothing better. Ended up with herniated disc (at 26 years old!), had pain moving around for 3 months, and still need to be careful with some movements. I always welcome such tutorials as this so hopefully others can avoid my situation.
Your reach is just one element of your saddle to bar reach. Seat tube angle, saddle setback, stem length/angle, lever position, handlebar reach and width will all affect how stretched out you feel when seated.
I just wish there was more choice on components when getting a new bike: A size 58 is perfect for Stack/Reach, but bars are too wide, crank arms too long. A size 56 gives better bars and cranks, but I need a longer stem and a few spacers. Such is life!!
There are brands out there that offer this level of customisation, the other option would be to buy from a local shop that would be able to swap the parts out for you.
Reach is used the same way. They are very analogous, but since the seat can be adjusted in 3D, but the BB is fixed, I sweat the reach a little more, but they make good cross checks for bikes with more radical Geos like slack gravel/tourers
Using the TT measurement takes into account different seat tube angles. Two bikes can have very similar reach but different TT lengths which needs to be taken into account as the saddle needs to be adjusted relative to BB
@@michaelcheng6469 My theory is that I can use different offset seat posts to deal with most geometry changes within a class off bikes (race, touring, etc)
There's a set of formulae to get the reach and stack dimensions. The seat height and setback ( seat angle ) from the B/B is on the lower limbs measurements. So is crank length. Reach and stack are on upper body and arm measurements. Minor adjustments are on stem extension and stem protrusion; and seat rail fore/aft. I had my bike fit by Mike Veal, BikeDynamics. He is a MSc and worked as a vehicle dynamicist at Jaguar Cars. I was a vehicle test driver there.
Hello fellas GCN team. I’m 5,9” and i used to use a 54cm road bike frame. A couple months ago, i bought a second hand Cyclocross bike for gravel purposes, it’s a Wilier Triestina Large size, i feel is larger than my Orbea Orca Road Bike (54) i put a shorter stem and dropped the seat tube. Should be ok now however the shorter seat tube looks sucks lol.
The move to fatter tyres on road bikes (back to 1970s and earlier and even fatter than then) plus the move towards shorter cranks have implications for frame size and shape. Shorter cranks require hgher saddle because bottom dead centre is higher than for longer crank. Start with angle of knee and use a goniometer or a hinged spirit level or any diy way to measure angles that's long enough to include hips and ankles. Short cranks and fatter tyres means saddle higher above the ground. For safe touching toe down to the road or kerb when you stop, the higher seat requires a lower bottom bracket - hence the effect not only on frame size but frame shape. Back in the day, saddles were only a hand around the post higher than the top of the handlebars and the handlebars had a deeper drop so riders used the drops more than just for sprinting as seems to be the case now - Cinelli 1A and deep drop bars - I wish I still had mine. I used to have two setups: toe down for solo riding on the rivet (cheap brand version of Brooks) when I'd try to get aero by reaching as far forward as I could, especially when cycling southwest against prevailing breezes. Other times, I'd re-set for heel down and sitting further back - better for riding with a following breeze when I'd sometimes freewheel up slopes. Very different saddle heights and fore-aft positions. With only one bike, I'd probably do 6 months with one setting and 6 months with the other.
You can't always make a frame fit once you have a frame that is supposedly your size. If "your size" doesn't have the stack and reach you need, moving the saddle and changing the stem might not be enough and you end up with a bike that doesn't fit.
It’s always been a pleasure to see James on Bike. I enjoy following your intense workouts and always yell out *Oh Yeah* when it’s due, of course besides patting my back at the end of each session. Lots of Love for Mike and whole GCN+ team from a small city named Chakwal in Pakistan.
For my height of 165 cm, Specialized's size chart says I'm a Size 52 on their road bikes, but since I'm well aware I'm small and that Size 52 isn't classified as small, I figured Size 49 is my actual size, which it is. On a Tarmac SL6, seatpost exposure is just right and I can run a 90 mm stem when my handlebar reach is 70 - 80 mm.
This video would have been immensely improved if Hank had used his measurements as an example. The geometry charts are still a marvel of complexity. I did manage to get a nice bike but it was in spite of the chart.
Back to riding a bike with drops for the first time since my teens. Don’t forget handlebar *rotation* as another set of possibilities to get your position right. Found that rotating bars a tiny amount back/up helped with keeping my (dodgy) lower back in a comfortable position. Maybe another reason to avoid one-piece integrated stem/bar jobbies?
On a bike that properly fits you, you shouldn’t have to rotate the bars this way. Rotating the bars effectively shortens the reach and raises the stack height, but it sacrifices safety, access to the brake levers, and proper use of the drops. Better to buy a bike with the proper reach and stack height to begin with, or get a shorter stem and some spacers
Step 1: Whichever size you ultimately end up going for, do not under any circumstances buy the size the manufacturer's size chart recommends - it will not fit.
At 184cm height the Canyon size chart put me at the exact overlap of M and L for the Grail 7. Both the sales rep and the Facebook crowd recommended M for comfort and it works for me.
If you've never bought a road bike, the first step is to go to a bike shop or pay a bike fitter to assess your riding style, flexibility and ask them to pick out the frame size and type (race, endurance, all road,TT etc). The most important measurement is the REACH. Unlike saddle height, it is more difficult to change without changing parts and affecting the handling (for extreme cases). Once you've got a frame with an appropriate reach then look up what size it is and whether the top tube seat stay junction is to your liking. It is not uncommon for someone to be recommended two frame sizes (e.g. small, med) because of compact frame sizing allows for "overlap" in the sizing chart. In general, pick the smaller size, if you can accommodate the lower stack by adding spacers or inverting the stem. A bike that has too long a top tube will feel like you're driving a bus, instead of having two wheels under you as an extension of your body. If you are very short, ask about an XS or XXS frame fitted with 650b wheels and a 165mm or smaller crank. All of these issues can be sorted out by a bike fitter BEFORE you buy the bike. The fitter should recommend the frame, crank, handlebar and stem for you, which will make the positioning much easier to do later. Give your body 1000km of riding to get the perfect fit and feel comfortable, if you're new to road biking.
Bike companies need to embrace open architecture to allow different stems and tubes to raise stack or decrease reach. Proprietary features on the frame kill that flexibility. Canyon double hover bar. Specialized Future Shock. D profile seat post. etc. Better yet, allow customisation options to choose seat post, handlebars of various flares, drops, and reach, stem lengths.
I have a 1994 custom-made Ron Cooper, with a 53 cm. seat tube and 58 cm. top tube. I live in fear of ever having to replace it -- I just don't understand modern frame geometry!
I noticed Hank has a smaller bike frame than the Orbea Orca (yellow/red) he had before. In this new bike, the difference in height between the handlebar and seat is extremely aggressive. I don't think I could even look forward or get my hands into the drops at that angle. Even though Hank and I are almost the same proportions I don't think that bike frame would fit me.
If (for lack of knowledge) you have been riding an ill fitting bike for a long time, do you know when you find the right fit for you? I feel like my body has learnt to compensate for the defects I might have in my current setup and changing anything feels daunting.
Lol i was just trying out a mountain bike at home that's unused wondering if i can just wing it and make use of it and your video was uploaded. My feet ( mostly my toes, my road bike is the same and i manage ok) can make contact with the ground but the top tube is touching my crotch area while standing and I'm off the seat.. it's a little higher than my normal commuter bike. The saddle height is too high, i was going to get a smaller one. Since the handle bars are okay and appear to be like my road bike, i figured just get a new seat. But i realised now the top tube is too high and touching my crotch. Will this be a problem? It had a small seat before so i thought i could buy one. Had to watch your video three times with a tab open with picture of parts of a bike then i finally understood most of what you said. 😂 Beginner here. I've seen a shorter female at the park riding a similar or even higher bike than my commuter bike so figured i can just wing it and use this bike to go on bike trails. I will check out the measurements video though i don't like measurements that's why i avoid clothes shopping online. P.s What on earth is a shopping bike? 😅
hi, thanks for the comment. Ideally, it sounds like you probably need a slightly smaller bike, as if you had to get off in an emergency, the top tube may be a little bit too close for comfort. A shopping bike is a bike that you use for riding around town on, to do shopping! They are traditionally quite an old fashioned design! Cheers 👍
Just leave to "professionals" at bike shops to tell you what bike size you are supposed to get. They are trying to sell you $15000 bikes but when asked about the size, they are totally clueless
This might be anecdotal based on your experience. Yeah we’re not bike fitters but the biggest obstacle to us bike shop guys is know it all’s who pretend they know what they’re talking about because they watched a few YT videos and chatted to their mate who’s got an expensive bike. I get guys and gals all day long coming in telling me they want to do triathlon on an aero bike because they saw how aero it is on here but have never considered how far behind the BB that puts their arses and the relationships between different muscle groups and power for the type of riding you want to do. That’s what we’re there for. You’ll get unbiased information to get you on the right tool for the job you tell us you want it to do. But we won’t stand in the way of a 5’8 guy buying a large SL8 with tri-bars. We’ll still be there when you come back for your Giant Defy, they all do because they bought the wrong bike. We don’t all ride road bikes so find the roadie in the shop but I can speak for the majority of bike shop staff that we definitely know our stuff. Bike fitters are there to fit the bike you bring them because nobody actually goes to get a pre-fit. Like seriously.. no one.
Not no-one ;) And there are knowledgeable bike shop folks who are willing to BS those they think they can into buying the wrong bike because it's the one they're trying to get rid of. I've seen it happen. It can be useful to play dumb at first, when you actually do know a bit. Helps identify the people trying to help from the ones looking to take advantage.
@@aidanhealy1 We get it, you’re the 1 in 20,000 customers who got a pre-fit and knew what they wanted. That’s good. But I’m going to presume you don’t work in the bike industry so you only know what you personally have learned from experience, your likeminded peers, possibly a coach and TH-cam so don’t give the guys in the shop a hard time because you saw one or two people sold the wrong bike. Most people don’t know what they want and most experienced people don’t tend to work in the bike trade because it’s just a job. You can definitely earn more as a data entry lackie. We do it because we’re passionate and we know our stuff. Most bike shops will have decades of experience in most disciplines so we like to think we can be trustworthy. Go easy big guy..
@michaelwood5897 My apologies. I wrote that comment twice. The first time I acknowledged the experiences you related are likely typical before rebutting your assertion that they're universal. The second time (after accidentally deleting it), I thought I wrote the same but apparently left the first bit out. That changes the tone of my comment but, regardless: Was what I said inaccurate? Yes my knowledge comes partly from my personal experience and that of my peers. Where does yours come from? I've been to many bike shops over the years. How many have you worked in? I've dealt with many bike shop staff in a few different countries (largely good experiences - but with major exceptions). How are you able to speak so authoritatively for the character and practices of staff everywhere? You can't. Silly of you to pretend otherwise. You must know there are unscrupulous bike sellers, like there are unscrupulous folks in every line of work? Whether they ended up there via passion or otherwise. I am cautioning that it is not wise for a customer to assume they are getting unbiased advice ftom the person with a conflict of interest. It's hardly controversial advice I would have thought? So, drop the "We get it...." and "Big guy" drivel. Have a proper discussion or don't bother responding. That crap does nothing to encourage the respect you seem to be seeking.
Hanks bike makes me laugh . Whilst talking about bike size , he has the front end slammed as far as it will go whilst moving the seat as far forward as he can go and moving the hoods closer/ around the bars. Looks over function!!! I ride with my handlebar spacers in comfort 😂
So I have a triathlon bike ( don't judge me) with a fixed seat post which is the exact same saddle height as my road bike, however, since the geometry sits further back I have three options right now for fit besides increasing my Q. First I will decrease the Crank length and second I can go from my 700 to 650 wheels ( which is probably not going to happen since I don't want to spend $$$$ on new carbon wheels), and third, I can move the saddle forward which puts undue pressure on the bracket.
Your triathlon position and road position should be very different, the use of aero bars on the tri bike will mean the bike has to be setup properly. For that bike you might want to approach a bike fitter to get the optimal race fit📏
With all due respect, that's absurd. The fit should ideally come before purchase, not after a month of riding a badly set up bike. And a tri bike is less forgiving than a road bike. Fit, ride, tweak, ride, tweak......until happy
Ideally, you want to make an appointment with a reputable bike fitter first. A good one can determine your ideal frame size using a fit bike to replicate the geometry of most bikes, so that you can know what options you have. This is most helpful if you don't have a brand bias yet. Every rider is built differently, so one frameset's model and size can't fit all riders of the same height. Inseam, torso length and arm length are some of the things that need to be taken into account.
My road bike came with a 120mm stem, I changed it for a 100m stem and it's still uncomfortable. Looks like I'm gonna need a 60/70mm.. does that necessarily mean that my bike is too big or could it be something else?
It might not mean the bike is too big, there could be loads of factors at play here. If you are really struggling with the feel of your bike a professional bike fit will help 🙌
hi, thanks for the comment! This doesn't necessarily mean that your bike is too big, it could be that you have shorter arms or not as long upper body. The best thing we would advise is to visit a bike fitter who can try different stems on your setup and see how it affects your riding. Cheers 👍
This got me wondering: given most pros ride a size down with a long stem / narrow bars, are bikes actually designed to handle best as the pros ride them, or as they are sold in the shops? Surely either pros have compromised handling, or the rest of us do…
This is a very interesting point, the answer could be that a rider adapts to the setup that they have? Many pros are very fussy over their setups and during the early season in particular, adapt and change their setup alot!
Pros like the narrow bars because it helps with tucking into the fastest possible aero position. It does compromise handling, but to them, more speed is everything. Really shocked that the GCN comment didn't say this, they've covered it on the channel before I think.
I appreciate the video - but to someone who is new in this arena - it sounds like Chinese to me - all of this stack height, and all the other jargon - have no idea about all of these measurements, it seems so complex and confusing omg! I just have no idea what size road bike to get, one that doesn't cost and arm and a leg - female, 5' 1" any recommendations would be great
Hank is starting to look a little fluffy in that thumbnail. Perhaps some classic "let's kill Hanks" challenges in the coming warmer months? Or a "how to get in riding shape for the summer" type of project? Unless the man just wants to let loose and let it go, he's suffered plenty for our enjoyment
Just flip it over. On a 100mm stem flipping it over will lower the bar about 2cm. There are also on-line stem calculators that allow you to see the change of different stems and spacer combinations. Just do a search.
@@JMeccThe also make -17 degree stems for this purpose. That should give you more drop. Failing that, you can try different positions on a spin bike, and have someone photograph you, and measure the handlebar stack and reach. I booked a session on Powerwatts training and tried different positions on their adjustable road bike. I then recorded them and had my custom frame built around these measurements.
There are many stem angle options available. Years ago I did some experimenting with my first bike before selecting it's replacement. It was a good idea and I think you're wise to do tge same. I used a Specialized Comp Multi stem. There's a curernt version still available. It uses a slightly oversize clamp into which you slide a liner. The stem comes with 3 liners. One is just a simple sleeve, one has a +/-2 degree offset and one has a +/-4 degree offset. It looks like any other stem in use. They come in 12, 17 and 24 degree options in all typical lengths (70-120mm) So the 24 degree stem I used gave me -+/- 20, 22, 24, 26 or 28 degrees.
Stand over height is a very poor measure of a properly sized bike. And pretty much any bike that gives you a proper and comfortable riding position won’t be big enough for that to happen anyway.
Yes I like my bars been easy reach . I just got a new bike and you can’t extend the handle bars so I’ve put seat lowest I can but it still doesn’t feel right
@@WoodyWanderer I have short legs so I’d have to lower my bars not my seat if I wanted to be more ‘aero’. But I’m happy with a slightly more upright position for comfort.
Same, and then I have idiots online telling me that I will break my back unless my seat post is in the stratosphere. I want to be a bit more upright and it's the right height for my (shorter than average) inseam compared to my height.
Hi, thanks for the comment. This is a really tricky situation to be in! Quite often it comes down to any extremities that you may have, i.e. longer arms/legs and how the bike can be fitted around you. A local bikeshop should be able to help out with this more! thanks
@@gcn Thank you. I have long legs and relativily short body. I believe I should go for the smaller frame. Otherwise, the longer top tube may make may hurts my back.
I was between a M and S when I picked up my Giant, I was advised to go for the smaller frame. I went in and sat on the bike which helped, if you can do that and speak to staff that would be ideal.
Long body, short legs here.. for years I rode a large bike with the saddle slammed and long stem.. and still felt cramped.. then I realised bikes with sloping top tubes are the answer. Far more effective than looking for an "aggressive" bike to get more reach and less stack.
Most sizes will do for me as long as I can adjust the cockpit and saddle height... the other measurements are for racers. I can ride any bike on offer. We all hv different body lengths... long legs shirt arms, long arms short torso...etc. funny bike frame makers are not standardised.
Race bikes are not meant for public consumers, this channel does a disservice by mentioning these bikes. Look into endurance bikes instead, help the regular people.
And some of the comments…. arms too long, legs too short 🤦 . They are the size they are.! That’s why things like seat post are adjustable and you can get stems different lengths etc etc. it’s not rocket science.
Again the worst video by GCN. You should provide the at least basic measurement for min and max reach for the bike, just like how you have given for saddle height. You should support the people who cannot afford the bike fitting. But it looks like you people are supporting to bike fitting guys.
Try this: Inseam measurement X 0.635= horizontal top tube measurement. This will give you an endurance fit, but because some people have longer arms or a shorter torso, it is only a starting point. So for a person with an inseam of 81cm, 81*0.635= 51.4 cm or 514 mm. "Search also for Lemond Sizing Chart" or "Hamley's method sizing chart."
Have you had any frame size issues? 📏
Often. I'm big boned.
@GilbertTang Do you wish there were more frame size options?
I’ve had issues with my Achilles after riding my bike and I’m not certain if that is because of saddle position or height…
No I use the old standard , sit on seat with heel easy on pedal at bottom of stroke . Works out at 30.5 inch for me with 160mm cranks .And seat position with behind my knee cap above c/l of pedal. BUT. I looked at a manufacturers chart and they reckoned for my height (5’5’’)a 27” seat to pedal. My inside leg is 31”. My problem is a short back.
I tend to run into component configuration issues (stem length, 20mm offset seat posts) rather than what I would call pure frame size issues. It took a while for me to sort out why I wasn't really comfortable riding the bike I bought in 2018 and found a couple of component replacements fixed the issues I was having. When I bought a new bike last summer I had a discussion with my LBS regarding "complementary component changes" to improve bike fit, was pretty much told the bike comes as configured but they would be willing to make any changes if I paid for the parts and labor to do so. On that bike I haven't needed to make any geometry changes, although I did chuck the stock tires in the bin after the first ride.
When I picked out my road bike last year, the clerk suggested a size L (TT length 56 cm) bike. Well for a first road bike with a 100 mm stem the reach was way too long (26M, 183 cm), but being a newbie I know nothing better. Ended up with herniated disc (at 26 years old!), had pain moving around for 3 months, and still need to be careful with some movements. I always welcome such tutorials as this so hopefully others can avoid my situation.
Ouch, hope that the disc is ok?
you gotta have some really long legs with quite short torso and the clerk didn't really notice. Wish you a speedy recovery!
Your reach is just one element of your saddle to bar reach. Seat tube angle, saddle setback, stem length/angle, lever position, handlebar reach and width will all affect how stretched out you feel when seated.
All very true! It can be super tricky finding the perfect fit. Have you had experience with using a bike fitters?
@@gcn yes, it was useful for getting me ‘in the ballpark’ but I needed to make adjustments.
I just wish there was more choice on components when getting a new bike: A size 58 is perfect for Stack/Reach, but bars are too wide, crank arms too long. A size 56 gives better bars and cranks, but I need a longer stem and a few spacers.
Such is life!!
But a 58 frame, put your own choice of components on.
There are brands out there that offer this level of customisation, the other option would be to buy from a local shop that would be able to swap the parts out for you.
To me, effective top tube length is most important. Everything else can be adjusted for.
With the right seatpost and stem, I can ride a 48 to a 62. But if you want decent handling, the size definitely matters😂
Reach is used the same way. They are very analogous, but since the seat can be adjusted in 3D, but the BB is fixed, I sweat the reach a little more, but they make good cross checks for bikes with more radical Geos like slack gravel/tourers
Using the TT measurement takes into account different seat tube angles. Two bikes can have very similar reach but different TT lengths which needs to be taken into account as the saddle needs to be adjusted relative to BB
@@michaelcheng6469 My theory is that I can use different offset seat posts to deal with most geometry changes within a class off bikes (race, touring, etc)
There's a set of formulae to get the reach and stack dimensions. The seat height and setback ( seat angle ) from the B/B is on the lower limbs measurements. So is crank length. Reach and stack are on upper body and arm measurements.
Minor adjustments are on stem extension and stem protrusion; and seat rail fore/aft.
I had my bike fit by Mike Veal, BikeDynamics. He is a MSc and worked as a vehicle dynamicist at Jaguar Cars. I was a vehicle test driver there.
Hello fellas GCN team. I’m 5,9” and i used to use a 54cm road bike frame. A couple months ago, i bought a second hand Cyclocross bike for gravel purposes, it’s a Wilier Triestina Large size, i feel is larger than my Orbea Orca Road Bike (54) i put a shorter stem and dropped the seat tube. Should be ok now however the shorter seat tube looks sucks lol.
The move to fatter tyres on road bikes (back to 1970s and earlier and even fatter than then) plus the move towards shorter cranks have implications for frame size and shape.
Shorter cranks require hgher saddle because bottom dead centre is higher than for longer crank. Start with angle of knee and use a goniometer or a hinged spirit level or any diy way to measure angles that's long enough to include hips and ankles. Short cranks and fatter tyres means saddle higher above the ground. For safe touching toe down to the road or kerb when you stop, the higher seat requires a lower bottom bracket - hence the effect not only on frame size but frame shape.
Back in the day, saddles were only a hand around the post higher than the top of the handlebars and the handlebars had a deeper drop so riders used the drops more than just for sprinting as seems to be the case now - Cinelli 1A and deep drop bars - I wish I still had mine.
I used to have two setups: toe down for solo riding on the rivet (cheap brand version of Brooks) when I'd try to get aero by reaching as far forward as I could, especially when cycling southwest against prevailing breezes. Other times, I'd re-set for heel down and sitting further back - better for riding with a following breeze when I'd sometimes freewheel up slopes. Very different saddle heights and fore-aft positions. With only one bike, I'd probably do 6 months with one setting and 6 months with the other.
You can't always make a frame fit once you have a frame that is supposedly your size. If "your size" doesn't have the stack and reach you need, moving the saddle and changing the stem might not be enough and you end up with a bike that doesn't fit.
Can you try high quality tires with wrong pressure and cheap tires with right pressure at the same bike?
Oooo that's an interesting idea! 👀
It’s always been a pleasure to see James on Bike. I enjoy following your intense workouts and always yell out *Oh Yeah* when it’s due, of course besides patting my back at the end of each session. Lots of Love for Mike and whole GCN+ team from a small city named Chakwal in Pakistan.
who is Mike? The presenter is called James Lowsley-Williams
@@johngwheeler typo mistake, my bad
47 for me. 5’5“ tall. It’s a perfect fit for me. I love your channel.
Always try and get to your nearest bike shop for a realistic size . Don't guess on recommended delivered sizes
For my height of 165 cm, Specialized's size chart says I'm a Size 52 on their road bikes, but since I'm well aware I'm small and that Size 52 isn't classified as small, I figured Size 49 is my actual size, which it is. On a Tarmac SL6, seatpost exposure is just right and I can run a 90 mm stem when my handlebar reach is 70 - 80 mm.
I believe Hank is hanging out with mtb guys too much. He's so cool now!))
😂
This video would have been immensely improved if Hank had used his measurements as an example. The geometry charts are still a marvel of complexity. I did manage to get a nice bike but it was in spite of the chart.
The best investment for comfort and performance is a professional bike fit.
Back to riding a bike with drops for the first time since my teens. Don’t forget handlebar *rotation* as another set of possibilities to get your position right. Found that rotating bars a tiny amount back/up helped with keeping my (dodgy) lower back in a comfortable position. Maybe another reason to avoid one-piece integrated stem/bar jobbies?
On a bike that properly fits you, you shouldn’t have to rotate the bars this way. Rotating the bars effectively shortens the reach and raises the stack height, but it sacrifices safety, access to the brake levers, and proper use of the drops. Better to buy a bike with the proper reach and stack height to begin with, or get a shorter stem and some spacers
Step 1: Whichever size you ultimately end up going for, do not under any circumstances buy the size the manufacturer's size chart recommends - it will not fit.
agree. i think they just want to sell more bikes and components
At 184cm height the Canyon size chart put me at the exact overlap of M and L for the Grail 7. Both the sales rep and the Facebook crowd recommended M for comfort and it works for me.
😂😅😂😅... None sense. Giants one put me right on..
Manufacturer recommendations are usually too large. Try one size smaller.
@@martindirkzimmerwell yeah, anytime you’re at the middle cusp of sizes, always go for the smaller. Easier to adjust outward than inward.
If you've never bought a road bike, the first step is to go to a bike shop or pay a bike fitter to assess your riding style, flexibility and ask them to pick out the frame size and type (race, endurance, all road,TT etc). The most important measurement is the REACH. Unlike saddle height, it is more difficult to change without changing parts and affecting the handling (for extreme cases). Once you've got a frame with an appropriate reach then look up what size it is and whether the top tube seat stay junction is to your liking. It is not uncommon for someone to be recommended two frame sizes (e.g. small, med) because of compact frame sizing allows for "overlap" in the sizing chart. In general, pick the smaller size, if you can accommodate the lower stack by adding spacers or inverting the stem. A bike that has too long a top tube will feel like you're driving a bus, instead of having two wheels under you as an extension of your body. If you are very short, ask about an XS or XXS frame fitted with 650b wheels and a 165mm or smaller crank. All of these issues can be sorted out by a bike fitter BEFORE you buy the bike. The fitter should recommend the frame, crank, handlebar and stem for you, which will make the positioning much easier to do later. Give your body 1000km of riding to get the perfect fit and feel comfortable, if you're new to road biking.
some very wise words here 👆
1:42 My wifey got me this bicycle for Xmas.
Bike companies need to embrace open architecture to allow different stems and tubes to raise stack or decrease reach. Proprietary features on the frame kill that flexibility. Canyon double hover bar. Specialized Future Shock. D profile seat post. etc. Better yet, allow customisation options to choose seat post, handlebars of various flares, drops, and reach, stem lengths.
I have a 1994 custom-made Ron Cooper, with a 53 cm. seat tube and 58 cm. top tube. I live in fear of ever having to replace it -- I just don't understand modern frame geometry!
I noticed Hank has a smaller bike frame than the Orbea Orca (yellow/red) he had before. In this new bike, the difference in height between the handlebar and seat is extremely aggressive. I don't think I could even look forward or get my hands into the drops at that angle. Even though Hank and I are almost the same proportions I don't think that bike frame would fit me.
If (for lack of knowledge) you have been riding an ill fitting bike for a long time, do you know when you find the right fit for you?
I feel like my body has learnt to compensate for the defects I might have in my current setup and changing anything feels daunting.
- How do you choose your bike size?
- I match frame size to my size, consulting manuals supplied by both manufacturers.
Lol i was just trying out a mountain bike at home that's unused wondering if i can just wing it and make use of it and your video was uploaded. My feet ( mostly my toes, my road bike is the same and i manage ok) can make contact with the ground but the top tube is touching my crotch area while standing and I'm off the seat.. it's a little higher than my normal commuter bike. The saddle height is too high, i was going to get a smaller one. Since the handle bars are okay and appear to be like my road bike, i figured just get a new seat. But i realised now the top tube is too high and touching my crotch. Will this be a problem? It had a small seat before so i thought i could buy one. Had to watch your video three times with a tab open with picture of parts of a bike then i finally understood most of what you said. 😂 Beginner here. I've seen a shorter female at the park riding a similar or even higher bike than my commuter bike so figured i can just wing it and use this bike to go on bike trails. I will check out the measurements video though i don't like measurements that's why i avoid clothes shopping online.
P.s What on earth is a shopping bike? 😅
hi, thanks for the comment.
Ideally, it sounds like you probably need a slightly smaller bike, as if you had to get off in an emergency, the top tube may be a little bit too close for comfort.
A shopping bike is a bike that you use for riding around town on, to do shopping! They are traditionally quite an old fashioned design!
Cheers 👍
I'm am 6 feet 3 inches can I buy a 18.5 inch medium frame or should go for bigger size pls suggest
Just leave to "professionals" at bike shops to tell you what bike size you are supposed to get. They are trying to sell you $15000 bikes but when asked about the size, they are totally clueless
This might be anecdotal based on your experience. Yeah we’re not bike fitters but the biggest obstacle to us bike shop guys is know it all’s who pretend they know what they’re talking about because they watched a few YT videos and chatted to their mate who’s got an expensive bike. I get guys and gals all day long coming in telling me they want to do triathlon on an aero bike because they saw how aero it is on here but have never considered how far behind the BB that puts their arses and the relationships between different muscle groups and power for the type of riding you want to do. That’s what we’re there for. You’ll get unbiased information to get you on the right tool for the job you tell us you want it to do. But we won’t stand in the way of a 5’8 guy buying a large SL8 with tri-bars. We’ll still be there when you come back for your Giant Defy, they all do because they bought the wrong bike. We don’t all ride road bikes so find the roadie in the shop but I can speak for the majority of bike shop staff that we definitely know our stuff. Bike fitters are there to fit the bike you bring them because nobody actually goes to get a pre-fit. Like seriously.. no one.
Not no-one ;)
And there are knowledgeable bike shop folks who are willing to BS those they think they can into buying the wrong bike because it's the one they're trying to get rid of. I've seen it happen.
It can be useful to play dumb at first, when you actually do know a bit. Helps identify the people trying to help from the ones looking to take advantage.
@@aidanhealy1 We get it, you’re the 1 in 20,000 customers who got a pre-fit and knew what they wanted. That’s good. But I’m going to presume you don’t work in the bike industry so you only know what you personally have learned from experience, your likeminded peers, possibly a coach and TH-cam so don’t give the guys in the shop a hard time because you saw one or two people sold the wrong bike. Most people don’t know what they want and most experienced people don’t tend to work in the bike trade because it’s just a job. You can definitely earn more as a data entry lackie. We do it because we’re passionate and we know our stuff. Most bike shops will have decades of experience in most disciplines so we like to think we can be trustworthy. Go easy big guy..
@michaelwood5897
My apologies. I wrote that comment twice. The first time I acknowledged the experiences you related are likely typical before rebutting your assertion that they're universal. The second time (after accidentally deleting it), I thought I wrote the same but apparently left the first bit out. That changes the tone of my comment but, regardless:
Was what I said inaccurate?
Yes my knowledge comes partly from my personal experience and that of my peers.
Where does yours come from?
I've been to many bike shops over the years. How many have you worked in? I've dealt with many bike shop staff in a few different countries (largely good experiences - but with major exceptions). How are you able to speak so authoritatively for the character and practices of staff everywhere? You can't. Silly of you to pretend otherwise.
You must know there are unscrupulous bike sellers, like there are unscrupulous folks in every line of work? Whether they ended up there via passion or otherwise.
I am cautioning that it is not wise for a customer to assume they are getting unbiased advice ftom the person with a conflict of interest. It's hardly controversial advice I would have thought?
So, drop the "We get it...." and "Big guy" drivel. Have a proper discussion or don't bother responding. That crap does nothing to encourage the respect you seem to be seeking.
Hanks bike makes me laugh . Whilst talking about bike size , he has the front end slammed as far as it will go whilst moving the seat as far forward as he can go and moving the hoods closer/ around the bars. Looks over function!!! I ride with my handlebar spacers in comfort 😂
So I have a triathlon bike ( don't judge me) with a fixed seat post which is the exact same saddle height as my road bike, however, since the geometry sits further back I have three options right now for fit besides increasing my Q. First I will decrease the Crank length and second I can go from my 700 to 650 wheels ( which is probably not going to happen since I don't want to spend $$$$ on new carbon wheels), and third, I can move the saddle forward which puts undue pressure on the bracket.
Your triathlon position and road position should be very different, the use of aero bars on the tri bike will mean the bike has to be setup properly. For that bike you might want to approach a bike fitter to get the optimal race fit📏
@gcn you are absolutely right. It comes with a bike fit but they wanted me to ride for a month before I get a fit.
With all due respect, that's absurd. The fit should ideally come before purchase, not after a month of riding a badly set up bike. And a tri bike is less forgiving than a road bike.
Fit, ride, tweak, ride, tweak......until happy
OK, but how do i know my optimal reach and stack measurements??
2:15 fast forward seatpost?
How do I determine my optimal stack and reach?
Ideally, you want to make an appointment with a reputable bike fitter first. A good one can determine your ideal frame size using a fit bike to replicate the geometry of most bikes, so that you can know what options you have. This is most helpful if you don't have a brand bias yet.
Every rider is built differently, so one frameset's model and size can't fit all riders of the same height. Inseam, torso length and arm length are some of the things that need to be taken into account.
@@yonglingng5640 that would be ideal, but how can I do it my self?
My road bike came with a 120mm stem, I changed it for a 100m stem and it's still uncomfortable. Looks like I'm gonna need a 60/70mm.. does that necessarily mean that my bike is too big or could it be something else?
It could be that the stack is too low
It might not mean the bike is too big, there could be loads of factors at play here. If you are really struggling with the feel of your bike a professional bike fit will help 🙌
hi, thanks for the comment! This doesn't necessarily mean that your bike is too big, it could be that you have shorter arms or not as long upper body. The best thing we would advise is to visit a bike fitter who can try different stems on your setup and see how it affects your riding. Cheers 👍
I’m going to say likely too big. That is an extremely short stem.
Thanks JLW and crew.
Sorry we only know a Hank here 🤣
@@gcn the man .. the myth. James Lowsley-Williams
@@cb6866 Did you see his recent epic 👉 th-cam.com/video/BFdjonYfnCo/w-d-xo.html
I have … very cool
This got me wondering: given most pros ride a size down with a long stem / narrow bars, are bikes actually designed to handle best as the pros ride them, or as they are sold in the shops?
Surely either pros have compromised handling, or the rest of us do…
This is a very interesting point, the answer could be that a rider adapts to the setup that they have? Many pros are very fussy over their setups and during the early season in particular, adapt and change their setup alot!
Pros like the narrow bars because it helps with tucking into the fastest possible aero position. It does compromise handling, but to them, more speed is everything. Really shocked that the GCN comment didn't say this, they've covered it on the channel before I think.
I appreciate the video - but to someone who is new in this arena - it sounds like Chinese to me - all of this stack height, and all the other jargon - have no idea about all of these measurements, it seems so complex and confusing omg! I just have no idea what size road bike to get, one that doesn't cost and arm and a leg - female, 5' 1" any recommendations would be great
if i cannot get my saddle forward enough, does that mean my bike is to big or to small?
Too big obviously
If you have to sit with your body hunched over at a 50 degree angle in order to touch the bars....frame may be too small for you
Hank is starting to look a little fluffy in that thumbnail. Perhaps some classic "let's kill Hanks" challenges in the coming warmer months? Or a "how to get in riding shape for the summer" type of project? Unless the man just wants to let loose and let it go, he's suffered plenty for our enjoyment
The manufacturer's recommended size tells me to use a saddle to bar drop of 10cm. My back can't take it.
By arse barely touches the top tube when I stand on the ground. Is it the right size?
That'll all depend on the bike and it's geometry style. How do you feel when you ride the bike?
Are there stems that hook down that I could use to see how it would if feel if I had a smaller frame? I think my stack is too tall.
Just flip it over. On a 100mm stem flipping it over will lower the bar about 2cm. There are also on-line stem calculators that allow you to see the change of different stems and spacer combinations. Just do a search.
@@bengt_axle oh it already is and slammed to the bottom. Looking for more drop.
@@JMeccThe also make -17 degree stems for this purpose. That should give you more drop. Failing that, you can try different positions on a spin bike, and have someone photograph you, and measure the handlebar stack and reach. I booked a session on Powerwatts training and tried different positions on their adjustable road bike. I then recorded them and had my custom frame built around these measurements.
This is an excellent website that lets you know where your handlebars would be if you changed to a different stem, yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php
There are many stem angle options available. Years ago I did some experimenting with my first bike before selecting it's replacement. It was a good idea and I think you're wise to do tge same. I used a Specialized Comp Multi stem. There's a curernt version still available. It uses a slightly oversize clamp into which you slide a liner. The stem comes with 3 liners. One is just a simple sleeve, one has a +/-2 degree offset and one has a +/-4 degree offset. It looks like any other stem in use.
They come in 12, 17 and 24 degree options in all typical lengths (70-120mm)
So the 24 degree stem I used gave me -+/- 20, 22, 24, 26 or 28 degrees.
People like cheaper bikes , not what they fit, thats how it is in i dia
Please help me to get my size....?? My height is 168cm
The more you get into cycling, the more you realize the importance of a properly fitting bike.
No mention of stand over height? I fell that is kind of important to not hit the family jewels on the top tube.
Stand over height is a very poor measure of a properly sized bike. And pretty much any bike that gives you a proper and comfortable riding position won’t be big enough for that to happen anyway.
I’m comfortable on my bike but don’t have the seat way higher than my bars like I see most. 😆
Yes I like my bars been easy reach . I just got a new bike and you can’t extend the handle bars so I’ve put seat lowest I can but it still doesn’t feel right
@@WoodyWanderer I have short legs so I’d have to lower my bars not my seat if I wanted to be more ‘aero’. But I’m happy with a slightly more upright position for comfort.
Same, and then I have idiots online telling me that I will break my back unless my seat post is in the stratosphere.
I want to be a bit more upright and it's the right height for my (shorter than average) inseam compared to my height.
What if my height right between two frame size?😵💫
Trek madone gen 7
Hi, thanks for the comment. This is a really tricky situation to be in!
Quite often it comes down to any extremities that you may have, i.e. longer arms/legs and how the bike can be fitted around you.
A local bikeshop should be able to help out with this more! thanks
@@gcn Thank you. I have long legs and relativily short body. I believe I should go for the smaller frame. Otherwise, the longer top tube may make may hurts my back.
I was between a M and S when I picked up my Giant, I was advised to go for the smaller frame. I went in and sat on the bike which helped, if you can do that and speak to staff that would be ideal.
Long body, short legs here.. for years I rode a large bike with the saddle slammed and long stem.. and still felt cramped.. then I realised bikes with sloping top tubes are the answer. Far more effective than looking for an "aggressive" bike to get more reach and less stack.
Most sizes will do for me as long as I can adjust the cockpit and saddle height... the other measurements are for racers. I can ride any bike on offer. We all hv different body lengths... long legs shirt arms, long arms short torso...etc. funny bike frame makers are not standardised.
Definition of reach was wrong. Not measured to the centre of the head tube.
good
Race bikes are not meant for public consumers, this channel does a disservice by mentioning these bikes. Look into endurance bikes instead, help the regular people.
First like ❤
Do you measure height WITH cycling shoes or bare feet?
bare feet generally.
bare feet 🦶 👍
I hope someone donated me no longer use frame :(
Pointless video. Told us nothing. Literally nothing.
And some of the comments…. arms too long, legs too short 🤦 . They are the size they are.! That’s why things like seat post are adjustable and you can get stems different lengths etc etc. it’s not rocket science.
e
First like.
Thank you! 🎉
Using folding bike : 🗿
One size fits all 🙌
I think you need a new topic.
Again the worst video by GCN. You should provide the at least basic measurement for min and max reach for the bike, just like how you have given for saddle height. You should support the people who cannot afford the bike fitting. But it looks like you people are supporting to bike fitting guys.
Try this: Inseam measurement X 0.635= horizontal top tube measurement. This will give you an endurance fit, but because some people have longer arms or a shorter torso, it is only a starting point. So for a person with an inseam of 81cm, 81*0.635= 51.4 cm or 514 mm. "Search also for Lemond Sizing Chart" or "Hamley's method sizing chart."