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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- In this video I show the first half of a lathe overhaul that I have been working on over the last few months. The lathe is a Harrison 190 which is the metric and less common varient of the Harrison 15"
More details on the precision flat stones can be found using the following link:
• PRECISION GROUND TOOLR...
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Stumbled on your vids .. and glad i did great to see the work and machinery you use ..
Good evening Mr Crispin 🤠 I’m a lorry driver but my interest in life are mainly railways real or model and anything mechanical 👍🏻 Since I came across your TH-cam channel I absolutely love it 😍 I’ll never do anything that you do but you make it so interesting with some fun and humour thrown in. I’m just memorised and the technical things that you do 😀 I’m sure if I was at school and you was my teacher I’d be some sort of engineer now instead of driving lorries lol 😆 I’m nearly 65 so I’ll stick at what I know and just be amazed at your videos especially when working on your steam engine. Thanks Stevie.
Thanks
65 is an excellent age to get a small lathe and start having the time of your life, no kidding, don't hesitate
Not enough people are aware of this fact!
mesmerized at the tech... (hope you do not have to travel thru Dover)
Mr C, you have the exact model lathe I served my apprentieship on. I am looking forward to seeing you opperate it an ange.
At 21:50 you are addressing the reinstallation of the gap and then dial the front and back Vee surfaces for alignment ...which yields the actual alignment condition of mis-alignment.
I am new to this project series and one thing that comes to mind immediately is the situation of the lathe with respect to the leveling of it and the process of "test cutting" to further "fine-tune" the levelling.
I have a Harrison M250. When I installed it (a used machine, but a little more modern than yours), I installed levelling bolts into the concrete floor. I never did any disassembly of this machine, only cleaned it up thoroughly. I levelled it up with a master level and performed trial cuts. The machined then required "true leveling" based on the measurement of the diameters along the trial cut.
The point here is would proper leveling "help" to reduce this "mis-match" you have measured? There will definitely be some people who will say my thoughts are ridiculous, for which I would respond with, I was in industrial sales for many years. The brands I represented were Boxford, Harrison, Standard Modern, Gurutzpe, VDF, (and some other specialty lathes), and Lagun, Peddinghaus, Ibarmia, ....and the list goes on and on. In short, I know quality machinery. In addition to this experience, there is one point that most every manufacturer and experienced machinist would say about the gap in a lathe ......"NEVER TAKE IT OUT BECAUSE YOU WILL NEVER GET IT BACK IN AND 100% ALIGNED". The caps is for emphasis ...I am not yelling 😃😃👌👌 Keep in mind, when these machines are manufactured, the gaps are in when ways are machined. They are NOT scraped in even though there are signs of "scraping" on the underside. When a machine is brand new, the line at the gap on the ways, is barely visible and running your finger over this spot on the front way and back way, you cannot "feel" anything.
As this lathe has come out of a college ....it has been abused ....not necessarily intentionally .....just abused because people learning how to operate this machine just don't know any better. They are learning. I would expect this gap has been in and out of the machine at least once every school semester as a part of the curriculum, showing how to use the oversized face plate to clamp a workpiece and dial in a bore. Taking the gap OUT is relatively straight forward, but there are right ways and wrong ways. It is the return of the gap ....understanding that both the gap and seating areas must be "hospital clean" ....is hard for some to understand ....and fitting back in is NEVER easy.
You probably should look very closely for spots that have some damage interface fitup, with the realization that something needs fixing ....hopefully it is something quit simple because 0.0008" is actually quite a lot and you don't want the carriage running over top spot like this. You went into detail about the deformation around a knick or dent. I would look inside the dowel hole which is supposed to assist in the alignment.
My machine does not have a gap. I am able to machine a chucked length of approximately 300 mm to 0.0002" on a diameter quite readily. Using a tailstock on longer parts, to 0.0004" on the diameter. I love machinery and the care and maintenance even moreso. Very nice to see this Harrison being given this care. It looks great.
I also note that when you turned the carriage around, and looking inside, the colour was beige. I guess the college may have painted all their machines grey because all machines used to be grey from the war years. I prefer the beige. Much more psychologically pleasant.
.
When adjusting the collars of the saddle gibs, be aware of the wear in the bed, if you adjust them to almost no play, they will be too tight at the ends of the bed because there is less wear
A little tight would help even out the wear :)
Most wear occurs from the chuck to about 1-2ft out
🇬🇧🙂
In regard to the fit of the filler block for the gap:
You may want to precisely level the machine with the block removed, then insert it and check again.
.0002" would be close to ideal, but we also don't know the straightness of the rest of the ways.
Great video Mr. Crispin 👍
I was awaiting to view the Leveling.
In advance of watching, cheers Crispin. Always a pleasure to get a new video. Adam
Engineering student here, I have found a goldmine of a channel, all my interests lumped into one, cheers
I found it extremely interesting, as always. Thank you for some of the most interesting videos on TH-cam.
Thanks!
I see you use the Fenner tools often. Mr Pete got me to your channel when the give-a-way was going on and I have been here since. I have started machining myself and appreciate all your input. All knowledge is valuable and you seem to have more that your apparent age suggests. You are doing a great job and feel free to mention more of the tools you used when you got that amazing gift.
Tash is OK but you should buy your brother a new toothbrush.
Do tell me more about your situation - big lathe, little lathe any other machines and where are you ?
That bit about the cylinder hone convinced me - great argument against what amounts to a superstition. I wonder if anyone has actually done a microscopic examination of a sliding surface after stoning.
Also I hope you returned your brother's toothbrush. I hate having to get mine from the garage after my brother borrows it.
I'm sure people have,the charging of a surface with abrasives can definitely happen but I think more with diamond pastes or emery type materials where the abrasive is constantly breaking down.
How do the critics explain a bed regrind not embedding grit in the ways?
I remember the toolbox give away ...my how time passes . Great stuff Mr C ,looking forward to pt2 of the Harrison build ..
Mr Crispin the use of the thinners rag to gently distress the paintwork is the work of a master😜 antique dealers use it all the time 👍🏴
Boat varnish is often done like that. Spread on with a roller then tipped with a brush. Sometime a pass with a propane torch is used to get rid of bubbles, but I think the brush is the best way to go.
Foam rollers are best for smooth surfaces and usually result in fewer bubbles. Thinning the paint may also help.
I do have to say that although you have a fair amount of other colored paint decorating your shirt I am impressed with how tidy your painting of th machine is, with no drips or misplaced smears.
Level the machine , then fit the gap . Forget the tapered dowel & use the saddle to do the alignment & lightly re install the dowel after nipping the gap bolts . I usually just use my finger nail for any final adjustment at the joint then check with an indicator at the headstock end & split any differences .
Also check to see if there is any raised material from the bed around the mount threads as this could lead to the gap sitting high .
There are a couple of similar looking features to the 17'' Harrison L17 model that i used to operate a long time ago .
Cheers !
Nicely done and thanks for the kind words.
ATB, Robin
No problem
Eagerly waiting for part 2
Most of the repaint machines I see had the dist and grease under the new coat of paint. You already did more 'without knowing" than most guys that should know better!
New viewer here. The moment I saw this guy I knew how he would sound and damn if he didn't sound exactly like I thought he should.
Ha! About 7 hours ago at lunch I said "Mr. Crispin says it's not a good idea to take your precision machines apart" referencing an earlier video of yours 😂
It's not!
Lovely update 👍👍😎👍👍 Yep, I’ve been here ever since the Fenner toolbox giveaway to the most deserving young machinist. 🤓
Thanks
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode, i didn't want it to end
Great work MrC 👍
Thanks
Air bubbles, try wash over with blow torch flame, they expand and pop
As long as a solvent base paint does not go up in flames.🔥
Heat gun wiorks too.
@@kepamurray1845 The only problem with a heat gun is you are blasting dust onto the paint. Also a flame is an intensive temperature shock only requires a second or Less to work
I got my first brand new lathe in 2001 i was so happy !! and about 6 months after i got it i took the gap out ,What a nightmare !!!
Ended up loosening the bolts carefully slid the carrage over it to align everything then used a indicator and the torque on the bolts to get the heights as close as i could
i got "acceptable" it took 10 years for it to settle in properly, never to be removed again.
Thank you for the informative and entertaining video. Your hard work shows. The lathe refurbishment is spot on. Well done. Looking forward to part 2. 👏👏👍😀
HEY MRCRISPIN , LOOKING GOOD MAN. GOOD JOB. LOVE THE LATHE !!! YES , I FOUND THIS INTERESTING ...... LOL 🤘🤘🤘
RE: Chip tray protection…I’ve had good results using an automotive clear coat.over painted machine enamels to provide an barrier against chipping and providing a degree of abrasion resistance. Most paints have a “stress” built into their film thickness to provide a uniform reflection….but it is more likely to chip upon impact due to the mechanics of the paint film. Clearcoats, especially those formulated for alloy wheels, are particularly good at providing a resilient layer against all sorts of abuse. Make sure base paint is thoroughly dry before spraying the clear…and test a small sample area before committing to the entire area.
Good idea
If three-hundred people haven't already suggested it, a two-part epoxy paint would be very resilient to any cleaners, lubricants, acids, spilled alcohol, coolants, etc., in the coolant pan.
Also, a heat gun can be used to pop tiny air bubbles left by rollers.
That's fine but, there Must be an easier way??
'Tipping' very lightly dragging a soft bristle brush across the bubbles is the age-old, easy solution.
What a transformation 👍😁 you did an amazing job . Really like your detailed explanation on the honing stones + diagram , looking forward to watching part 2.
Thank you so much for documenting all of this. I hope to have room for a similar machine in my garage one day and I shall certainly reflect back upon the information you presented here. Thank you again.
Very nice.
I like your wall clock! 0:30 10:20
Nice job on the lathe MrCrispin and thanks for the Paragon Paints tip!
I did a similar job to my Harrison M300. Knew nothing about lathes then. Loved every bit of it. Still tinkering on with it today. It never ends. Really enjoyed your video.
Thanks
A very timely video Mr. Crispin. I just hauled my Southbend 9x30 into the basement and am going to clean it up. Thank you again Sir and have a grand day!
I've an antique Wm. Muir plano-mill that will all need re-scraping
It's a lineshaft driven machine
I like watching your videos
Good video
🇬🇧🙂
Thanks
Love it..."it isn't stressing anything except for a few viewers"
Thanks Crispin, very encouraging (because I have one lathe in pieces).
So do I!! I'll be glad when part two is finished and it's all back together.
Been here too since Keith’s what’s in my toolbox.
Nice work. Thank You
Brilliant video Mr Crispin I really enjoyed the cameo of your friend professor Francis what a brilliant tip!!
Lol!
My milling machine has exactly the same same collars and bush and tenons arrangement. It's a Harrison Mill, so perhaps it was something that they liked to do.
It's actually reasonably clever as a way of doing it as it all locks up tight when you tighten the screw.
I ended up making a special tool to hold the slotted collar in place whilst I tightened the screw up. (By machining down a cheap socket, as recall)
I think I'll end up doing the same
The same collar/adjuster arrangement is on the saddle of my Harrison12" swing. It is a common Harrison feature.
Looks great mr. C. - Always watching for your next installment, always something to learn and watch.
I've heard that removing all air from the room and then getting a brother to do the paint application works a treat - worth a try I think.
I enjoyed this immensely. On the bubbles point, presumably some roller materials are more prone to this than others - foam, fleece, etc.
I think that my relatively primitive Willson slant bed came from a college originally but its bed is free of dings probably because the design includes a sheet steel cover and saddle extensions over the ways.
The lathe looks great! I could not believe how important precision ground flat stones are, I bought a set and wow, I was convinced.
MrCrispin, I really enjoy your videos and your humor, I’m an electronics engineer and engineer humor I think is universal. The videos are informative and well presented. Thanks from Orlando Florida 👨💻
Thanks
😂😂😂 poor neighbor. I don't if you ever considered a career in comedy. Your humour is riveting 🥁
That was a fact! It is my neighbours air compressor!
@@MrCrispinEnterprises don't forget scaring the bajesus out of the neighbor
I have used the same paint on my old harrison L5. I warmed the tin in a bath of hot water before use to help it flow, i just used brushes though. If it worked for loco painters of old it works for me!
I wasn't sure if it was Mr Crispin or Mr Herriot! I'm also pleased that i am not the only one to suffer from 'thinners rag' frustration! Thanks for the video!
I look forward to the tour round the features and functions of this lathe - particularly of any special features.
Another very interesting video. I'm looking forward to the denouement.
As inspector clouseau said, 'well kato, I'm back on the gambrelli case', and delivers a karate chop.
Awesome job on the rebuild!!! I can understand what you are going through as I have rebuilt 2 LeBlond lathes and have another waiting for a rebuild. First one was a 17 x 120 and it was pretty much torn apart when I bought it. I took a chance that all the parts were there and luckily they were. It was a chore to figure out where everything went after I got it painted. The other one was a 13 x 36 and it was complete and running but I had to make it new again. I got both of them looking and running like new. The next one is a 13 x 72. Fun, fun, fun...
Looks great Mr. Crispin!! With the paint or *coating*, modern *paints have come a long way, and many may say enamel, epoxy, alkyd, acrylic etc. So get copies of the data sheets - they tell you the important details like the correct thinners as apposed to clean up, also recommended application, wet film thickness, temperature ranges etc. The heating suggestions can be dodgy depending on the coating & film thickness - it can set the surface too quickly leaving the wet film underneath & can cause cracking or wrinkling - similar to what your rag did. Try to do as thin a coat as you can but get full coverage as thick films can chip a lot easier when fully cured / dried. Scrap the foam roller and get a short nap preferably natural fibre material (hard to get these days). Clean the roller really well before use and even vacuum it rigorously to remove loose hairs or fibres. Tipping (laying off) is good but if the film drags up, you may have taken too long and it's already started to set up. There's lots of types of additives, just check data sheets, talk to the paint rep or contact the manufacturers, they might have something to improve the workability and final coat finish. Good luck with it all - Stay safe and well :)
Less pressure on the roller wil prevent the bubbles. so, more pressure when applying the paint, then roll out with almost no pressure.
Cheers,
Norman
One of the boat building channels I watch (Tally Ho) calls what you did "rolling and tipping" so a light pass with the brish after the roller seems to be an established technique.
Looks a treat Mr Crispin. Regarding the bubbles you’re doing the right thing by brushing over the rollered paint.👍👍
Fantastic video. I'm on the student side of the classroom and looking forward to the next part. Thank you.
After re-boring and honing cast iron cylinder bores I use fatty soap (NOT detergent!) to pull all the very fine swarf from the pores of the cast iron. Rinsing with kerosene or other solvents does not pull the fines out of the casting. I scrub the bores with the sticky fatty soap solution and rinse with hot water 3 times before the engine is clean to assemble. The way I was trained to do it properly.
Thanks that's good advice
Nice bit of maintenance and very nice looking paint.Enjoyed, cheers!
Man, those short unexpected jokes like the one about your brother's toothbrush just crack me up
Mr C will we see you again soon. As a complete new hobbiest you have given me some great information. Looking forward to seeing more from you. D
Yes you will! Just got back in the workshop today after 10 weeks of distractions so hopefully a video will appear come together over the next couple of weeks.
Love this video. On Poisson's Ratio, it's a measure of how much the material moves in the directions other than the one you deformed it in. We take it in the 3 perpendicular axes x, y, z. So if you deform by x in the x direction, it'd deform 0.3x in the y and z directions - the Poisson Ratio for mild steel is 0.3.
Wow, amazing job on that beautiful old piece of iron!!
Mr. Crispin, a good fellow to speak to about the gap in your gap bed lathe is Keith Fenner. He has talked about and done a video about the gap in his lathe.
Gotta watch those passages Mr Crispin nice job yer doing
@2:00 - You're already throwing off the Monty Python vibe with that parts list. I love it.
Excellent video, what a nice machine. Pity about the usual college inflicted battle damage.
I'm glad you used a roller to paint it, I learned the hard way just what results you get for only using a brush. Looking forward to part two.
Best wishes, Dean in Oxfordshire.
Thanks Dean
Lovely job.
I absolutely like the job ... and the accent. Not the paint accent but the wonderful speech 😁
Thanks!
Mr. Crispin, I thought that when you quoted the good Inspector, you were going to say "He's not my dog."
Your videos are a real treat. Absolutely the right call with the original colour and no doubt a heart breaking moment with the rag soaked in thinners - especially the second time! I'd love to buy a Harrison M300, but worried I'd end up with a 🍋.
Another fine video. Thanks for taking the time to produce solid good quality content.
Well done Crispin, very detailed explanation of the overhaul, and your paint job looks good despite your bubble issues. Never used Paragon paint but my guess would be slightly thinned and warmed would eliminate the bubbles maybe. All paints behave differently and you would need to be thinning in the same proportion from the start of the job to avoid colour match issues. Maybe one to try on a scrap piece of steel ahead of your next go. Cheers, Jon
Cheers Jon
I've used it Jon, I don't think I would again. I find it very difficult to use. I now use Agco tractor paint from my local agricultural supplier. Goes on much better and dries quickly with no brush marks or bubbles.
Best wishes, Dean in Oxfordshire.
We bought some Paragon enamel to paint a model traction engine and hated the way it went on with a brush. For £5 a can a local paint company put it in rattle cans. Spraying it on the finish came out perfect.
Thin the enamel with a little white spirit. That usually stops the bubbles. Or, apply paint with the roller, leave for 5 minutes and light roll again without adding extra paint. Just done my mill like this and it looks better than new.
Thanks for another great video. Take care and work safely!
That was quite relaxing to watch.
That was excellent. I am doing similar to my Harrison mill. Renovation without scraping ways in. I have completely rebuilt the feed gearbox and converted the 1/8 hp feed motor to delta, to allow for drive from a vfd. Likewise ths main motor.
I had similar issues to you in that the lubrication drillings were choked up with debris, mostly hardened grease as some well meaning individual had been assiduously greasing it for years. Compressed air, solvents, rifle brushes and pipe cleaners eventually sorted it.
I am using the same paint as you. I opted to use Paragon's own zinc phosphate primer which I found made an excellent base for the enamel. I have had no issues with it, and I am the worlds worst painter.
Sounds good
There is a lot of competition for that 'worlds worst painter' title.
@@somebodyelse6673 I can assure you I am definitely up there.
I love your caliper wall clock. That's cool
Man, I enjoy your videos so much. Thanks.
Thanks
Hi, I have a Harrison 140 with a gap and I see just the same as you get with your gap, to the extent that I even wondered if the gaps had been swapped around between machines. On both sides one face of the V way is perfectly aligned and the other is off maybe a thou. If I adjust up the saddle to be snug on the bed it gets tight when it gets on to the gap and it pulls the saddle a bit off line. Amazes me that the gaps do not have the serial number on so I have no way to check if the gap is the original. It might have been run for a long time with the gap out so the wear is unequal but it feels unlikely. In the end I decided that Harrison did not do such a good job of matching bed and block.
Ps, fully saturate the roller to remove the air within and replace with paint. Light pressure and don't let the roller dry/ empty fully.
Worked for me.
Ask your paint supplier if they have a "leveler" chemical that you can add to the paint. It would make the paint "lay down" prior to drying. I believe this was common with some auto paints in the past. I'm not sure if it is available for enamels however. That's a nice lathe with a beast of a bed!
"Ask your paint supplier..." Mate, its properly an old tin or such. If you have any Practical advice now's the time to say it.
@@666goats did he not mention Paragon as the paint supplier in the video, so no "old tin"🤔
I'm in the U.S. so your mileage may vary somewhat, but I add some lacquer thinner to my paint and use a foam roller meant for applying polyurethane. The lacquer thinner will make the paint flow, level, and settle well. Use caution not to add too much as it will become too thin to roll, or brush, on any surface other than horizontal. I find, also, the foam roller will leave a finish very close to a spray application. The paint may take some time to flatten and lose the orange peel appearance. Fir industrial equipment, it's plenty good enough.
You've done a very good job on the old lathe. Good show, mate.
Edit: I forgot to mention, use slow strokes when rolling, and don't go back over any fresh paint that has gotten tacky to the touch. This will help prevent bubbles as well.
Thanks
Rolling + tipping with a brush is the way most people solve the problem of the roller leaving a poor finish, it's just a fact with some paints. The tip from another comment about using a flame to pop the bubbles works too, but that can be a bit more tricky.
Thank you.
Very good video! After watching this made me so relieved that I stripped and completely sprayed my Harrison in a spray booth 😂
Good video - I did a similar overhaul on a Harrison 165 lever type, which is a very similar machine. Well, actually I went a bit further and disassembled the headstock and gearboxes as well and replaced quite a few bearings and every oil seal. Took me about a year but I'm retired so that was pretty much full time. I Also did a VFD conversion which has greatly improved the versatility of the machine. One thing that was very badly worn on mine were the bronze bushes on the rear of the apron where the long feed shaft from the gearbox passes through (a machinist mate made me some new ones). I'll be interested to see if you can get the oiling system to work reliably as I'm still fighting with mine!
Great show as always! I’ve made the same mistake by taking my south bend to bits a few years back and have been piece by piece reworking and painting the sub assemblies as they come off. Im nearly done and I have been justifying all of this by saying this is the only lathe I’ll ever own.
No one ever knows how many bits are on a lathe untill they take one apart!
I also have a Southbend 9x30 machine. Looking to clean it up too. Wish me luck!
I should start a betting pool on how long it will take for the gap block situation to aggravate our hero into doing that scraping and alignment. I'm going to say 4 months.
Stumbled upon your channel and the content looks interesting. You did a great job with the paint and i look forward to part two.
Thanks
We have an imperial Ellitt Major over here in the colonies that has just been sitting in the shop for 15 years. You got me thinking about putting it back in service. - I'm even toying with the idea of a Clough electronic lead screw so we can cut metric and imperial threads for starters and maybe even eventually a full CNC conversion. ,,,, in my spare time? ,,,, Maybe just put power back on it and use it for roughing in parts. - It is a good solid lathe in any case.
You ever get to Cleveland look us up. You can check out the shop and we can go get a pint or two if you can stand our cold beer🤡
Thanks for your comment
I am a simple man, I see a Mr. Crispin video; I smash the like button.
Nice reservation work done there. You’ll have a good solid machine when finished.
Great video.
Thanks
I'd have gone for an epoxy primer and an epoxy paint. These are much more resilient to scratches, chemicals, and hot chips than anything else you could ever find. Because I leave nearby the sea, I went for on called "Hempel", which is a brand name (among others), used in ships and cruise ships.
The only time I've regretted was when I applied some primer left that I had to a casting I then wanted back as bare metal for other reasons. Luckily it wasn't a precision surface and I could sandblast it.
These modern primers are so well formulated, that penetrate down the pores in the metal such that it's almost impossible to fully remove them by mechanicals means, at least off porous surfaces such as cast iron.
Not that this is important either for the case of a machine or other one is going to paint over, but just comes to show how good these do their job.
Thanks
Hello Mr Crispin. Very nice thorough job. It looks as though you are painting in cold English conditions so the paint viscosity will be high. Suggest doing a trial paint using a small amount of thinners to drop your viscosity. I also like a previous comment about using a heat gun.
Just started watching. But nice job I was kinda skeptical on the stones but nice Job explaining the process. Excellent work 👏 👍
I've been using Paragon paints for a few years, very good single pack paints, yes, I get the bubbles with a roller. Will have a look at the comments.
Great job on using the precision flat stones.
Thanks for sharing.
As others have already said a couple of passes with the hot air gun pos all the small air bubbles and levels the paint surface. Just make certain you don't disturb any dust from any close by dusty surfaces or it will contaminate your freshly painted finish.
Nice work MrC. Thanks.
PS. I wasn't me that dropped a chuck on your gap bed section, honest... although I did drop a three-jaw a short distance onto a Harrison 11" L5A at college in the mid 1980s :/
Yes that's exactly how to do it roll on and then tip light brush over
The Colchester at my work is a gap bed and I always remember one of my mentors Brian saying to me you’ll never get ‘em lined up again. Lol