Should you start your own Martial Art? Featuring Sensei Seth, Icy Mike, & Rokas Leo
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- @SenseiSeth @hard2hurt @MartialArtsJourney
Joined me for this episode of Q&A with the Coaches (plural).
Ramsey Dewey, Sensei Seth, Icy Mike, and Rokas answer a question from our friend William who is a long time martial arts practitioner and teacher about the legitimacy of starting your martial arts system or style like Bruce Lee did with Jeet Kune Do.
Is there room in the modern world for more martial arts styles?
Sadly, Jeff Chan @MMAShredded could not join us since he had to leave early before we could film this.
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Ramsey Dewey is a retired pro fighter, combat sports coach, referee, and fight commentator… and occasional musician based in Shanghai, China.
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Thanks to my channel sponsor:
Xmartial: catering to all kinds of combat sports athletes from BJJ, MMA, Muay Thai etc. find rash guards, fight shorts, grappling spats, boxing gloves and other training gear. Use my code RAMSEY10 for a 10% discount on everything at
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This video features original music by Ramsey Dewey
Follow me on Instagram at: / ramseydewey
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I fought professionally in Mixed Martial arts, Sanda, Muay Thai, K1 and American kickboxing from 2004-2011 when I was forced to retire due to a broken skull and being blinded in one eye. I hold a brown belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Black belts in multiple traditional martial arts, including Taekwondo and kyokushin karate. I also train in catch wrestling, sambo, taijiquan, judo, and boxing.
I currently coach at the Animal MMA gym, the Extreme Fight Lab, and the Mordor Fight Club, all in Shanghai, China.
Who wants to sign up for North American Streetfighting?
Judging by how many questions I get about how to win street fights, A LOT of people!
I do I do
Bring it to maine usa near brewer, I'll join!
omg me 😳😩
Only if it consists entirely of eye gouges and nut shots. You know, the only techniques that work on DA STREETZ
If you ever decide to create your own martial art, please name it "The Dewey Decimate System"
Hahahahaha! I might steal that.
@@RamseyDewey you don't have to. It's a gift :D
He came from England so the system should be in imperial😂
I was having a really crappy morning and your comment was the first thing that made me smile and laugh today. Thank you 🙂
@@katokianimation you realize that the Dewey Decimal System is a card catalog system for libraries right? Pretty sure it's the same regardless of where you are.
Seeing you guys in the same room talking casually is so surreal lol
With all these minds coming together now that's a true martial art.
I think Ramsey hit the nail on the head near the end there. A martial art is branding. If you want brand recognition, you need to put your product in front of people and prove its value. The way you do that with violence is competition. Train enough successful fighters and people will know your brand. If you don't want to build your own, operate under someone else's. It's the same way in the trades. I work as a company electrician, operating under a corporate brand. If I wanted to, I could open my own LLC, train my own apprentices, and become recognized for my efforts in my community. No different than with martial arts.
It isn't about branding for me... I founded a filipino martial arts system because I don't have access to teachers in my town but I do need weapon skills for walks home at 3 in the morning. Kinda like the way that nobody in rural 19th century Ireland had a karate sensei, so they created their own family systems of bareknuckle boxing and stickfighting.
Well spoken.
@@studytime3461
you founded a filipino MA system OR you branded a system with your own brandname?
Because there already have been filipino MA systems and plenty of other MA systems, hence it is not likely that you, with due respect founded something 'new'.
There are no new inventions in martial arts, in my opinion there are new brands, no new systems (because we still use the same human body same anatomy, MA systems already use all possible techniques and tactics that is possible to be used with the human body and with cold weapons )
Dark Rokas has been born. I dig it.
Everyones saying "If Ramsey Dewey says you're good then you're good" Ramsey you should start a series rating viewers skills based on videos they send you.
Hahaha! A lot of people would get their feeling hurt!
They'd probably end up asking what their belt rank would be in a certain style.
@@RamseyDewey you could blur the peoples faces and then give your expert advice on what they're doing wrong and how to do it better⁉️
@@RamseyDewey you would be teaching how to hurt people in a whole new way lol
@@RamseyDewey criticism is the highest form of care though, is it not? If you want something to be better, you will put in the effort to say what needs improvement.
Ssethmo, Ramsey-do, Icy-Fu, Rok Muay.
Rokas's martial art would 100% be called Edge-kido.
I know it's partly seating position, but seeing all 4 of you in a row like that (4:54 for instance) it's really striking how much of a disadvanatge Icy Mike has been at size wise throughout the whole USDC. Mad respect for how game he's been and how well he's done despite the natural disadvantge. Except the sumo run around, that was kinda dumb.
I dont know why but I love that everyone is sitting on something completely different 😂
I didn't even notice that 🤣🤣
Great to see Ramsey teleporting and meeting the best martial arts TH-camrs ever
He's using 4000 years of chinese teleportation that he learnt from a monk while in Shanghai. He gave the monk a free rashguard from x martial as payment.
He didn’t have to teleport to meet himself🙄
@@kingbyrd.1512 is that a Baki reference?
@@kingbyrd.1512 Baki???
who shat their pants?
I really liked this perspective from multiple coaches, especially since all of you have had so much experience with different forms by this point. Glad you used your time with the others for stuff like this as well.
Oooo… there was very little free time! We filmed this in the wee hours of the morning.
@@RamseyDewey And still managed to sneak in some content creating, no different than sneaking in some training any other busy time. Hope you've been able to get some rest since. 😅
If you look through history, this is exactly the scenarios that make history for martial artists. Id like to compare this scene to the famous picture of Kyan sensei, Motobu, Chojun Miyagi and others in 1936 and just remember that this kind of conversation is imperative to martial arts
Very refreshing to see this kind of video where a conversation it's left as it happened and not truncated to a few sound bites. It feels more like a historical document of a cool symposium of popular martial artists than a youtube video - if that makes sense. Good stuff!
i did not expect a theseus ship reference in a martial arts video xDDD Thanks guys, you are making youtube better!
Seth over there waxing philosophical… and doing a Ramsey Dewey impersonation at the same time
Cheers Ramsay ! Amazed you can all still talk after all the beatings from the USDC. Great to hear thoughts from such a diverse range of coaches. Too bad you couldnt all meet up in Mordor...Icy Mike would definitely be the right size for Samwise Gamgee.
You know one of my gyms is called the Mordor Fight Club, right?
@RamseyDewey I know Coach ....but you need to catch a bus there....because one does not simply walk into Mordor. I'm going to stop now before I roll out a tortured "One Ring" joke. Cheers mate.
@@RamseyDewey are you expected to ride your vehicle into the building to get inside? Because one does not simply walk into Mordor...
Mike is SO SMALL 😂 Like in this shot you can really see how Rokas, Ramsay and Seth are built a tad different 😂. Love you all, thx for qna.
It seriously looks like a combination of forced perspective and CGI was used to make him look small.
Nah man, Mike is regular sized. Everyone else in the shot is way bigger than the average person.
@@RamseyDewey well 165 cm... about the hight and weight of my wife who I carry often (being around Seth dimensions). Maybe in central Asia 165 cm is normal but man, in Europe repored average is 177 cm and you can expect higher in MA. More respect for him for participating on equal terms!
It's refreshing to see you participants do a video in Ramsey's tempo. With the tourney we've seen all these impromptu collabs and they're all amazing..now that I've seen this I feel it's the most satisfying
It's the same ship Seth; humans shed millions of skin cells everyday...but we're still the same people
I created my own martial art, "Ultima-Fu"!, a combination of Karate, Judo, Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do, Knitting, Capoeira, Starbucks latte, Tai Chi, Badminton, shuffleboard, and ground wrestling! It's the deadliest, most kick-ass martial art EV-VAAARRRRR!!!
But the real question is… does it work ON DA STREETZ?
Since you included knitting, then I approve.
@@RamseyDewey yeah it's knitting... WITH YOUR LIMBS!
Your style not only defends against punches, but also boredom, tiredness and cold winter days.. the knitting curriculum should be omitted in your hot weather region franchises though..
It has to be easy to distinguish it from other styles, it has to have some kind of purpose and it has to be taken into use by a lot of people. These guys also needs to respect the system they’ve been training. Many broad system martial arts kind of defeats their own purpose because their curriculum is too big for almost anyone to
master well.
I think a huge issue with broad arts is they don't sell the focus right or they get swept up in a certain niche.
If you are going to train all martial aspects equally, you will be a jack of trades master of none. The issue is that these can be great... "warriors", but they will rarely ever win any competition at the elite levels.
A guy who boxes 5 days a week will always win a boxing match against a guy who boxes 1 day a week, shoots 1 day a week, fences 1 day a week, wresltes 1 day a week. Practices various tactical security 1 day a week, etc.
As a total individual, the broad guy is a superior general warrior, he will do better shooting than the boxer, better boxing than the shooter etc. Prepared to be a serious threat in all areas of life. But he won't be the best at any one of them.
@@Leifler Not with that mentality, that dude won't be.
If you train day one boxing, day two shooting, etc, like that, segmented apart, than you won't have an all-round fighting style. you will be a good boxer, or a good wrestler, but not both at the same time. in the end, they'll just be mediocre at fucking everything.
A fighting style needs to be a system that incoperates elements, not just borrows.
@@juliansanderson839 it was a simplification....
@@Leifler Well then, was your point only that someone with well-rounded training won't be able to contest with anyone in their specialized field? because that also an inaccurate assessment, so long as the well rounded fighter's skills are intentionally trained to be cohesive....
@Julian Sanderson I'm talking about levels.
Even if you are cohesive, you might be a badass in a well rounded situation, but that won't make you the Tyson, Jordan, of things.
You're the Bo Jackson of things. Bo Jackson, is not mediocre compared to the avg guy on the street, he's not even mediocre compared to a lot of people who try pretty dang hard.
The top people in any specific thing, live and breath that thing.
I'm thinking in terms of the elite, if you have a total person situation, you might produce a lot of people who are like "top 300" in any world wide concern. But they won't be top 10.
The top boxer, the top wrestler, the top Judo champion etc... they are going to be people who train for that, for that competition rules etc.
Even where it's a less good fighting, like TKD, with the "foot fencing" you're hacking the game. If you train TKD in a more practical manner, you're going to be less good at TKD competition.
This could give a false sense of you being less good as a fighter. Because you're style doesn't "win" at the top levels. But in a TKD vs TKD "mma match" all your dudes might smoke the foot fencers.
Judo rules have changed and a lot of schools teach the now illegal moves for the general art, but do so less and less when they want to win comps.
So, if you train well rounded Judo, you're going to not be as good at hacking the game.
I've been training for 35 years, and yeah, I could start my own martial art, but the truth is that I love traditional Chinese martial arts, it's what I do. I love the forms and working with weapons like spears, 3 section staff, and so on.
If you have the money you can create nonsense like krav maga.
Hey Ramsey, in relation to this talk about 'combat Tai chi, I would love to hear your thought on the difference between teaching/training style and martial arts style.
Trad. Jiujitsu trains basicly the same throws as judo - but the pedagogical style is vastly different. Does it maybe make more sense to describe HOW you train, instead of what style you train?
Anyways - great stuff. And so happy you participated in the championship - so many fun and great things come out of it :-)
This is a great question. The name of the style on the sign outside the gym is a way different thing that what’s actually being taught inside!
The "why" is the reason for creating a martial art. Most martial arts were created out of a necessity. The creator saw a problem and martial art was the solution. The rules for conflict were to make it less than lethal and provide grounds "settle the matter" officially. Sometimes the necessity was health (the legendary Bodhidharma). Other times it was addressing a weakness (Gracie Jujitsu). If the "why" is recognition then your best bet is to hire a PR team.
Also most of the martial arts we know today wasn't really created by one guy but rather they merged and evolved organically from things that already existed for centuries
That is why I am a founder... I was banned from the local mma gym for being a nutter, there are no decent weapon dojos in my town, and I must know weapon skills to safely navigate the junkie ridden streets on Friday and Saturday nights when the bars close
I started learning martial arts in 1971 when I was in the Peace Corps in rural Korea, went to a little gym in my town that was teaching the style "무덕관", Moo-duk-gwan. Traveling around the peninsula a bit, I found there were a number of these "gwans". I got the sense that these styles developed much like your follower's style. The peninsula is rugged in a lot of places; there's a spine of mountains down the middle and the sea all around, so not that long ago in this not very big region places and peoples were pretty isolated. Even when I was there, you'd be in one town and people would speak Korean with a dialect, but then you go over the ridge to the next town, and the dialect is very different. I had a sense that the local martial arts were like that, too. The thing is, to some degree I was wrong. There may have been historic fighting styles that really varied by locale and teacher, but - the Japanese Occupation, roughly 1900 - 45, forbid local fighting styles and so those were (probably) lost. The guys who started the later fighting styles, the gwans all studied Japanese styles, mostly Shodokan, mostly with Funakoshi. Most of them didn't admit it, doing hand waves like "I found an ancient book" or "I studied tomb inscriptions". The most honest guy that I know of was the founder of the small northern style (송무관), Ro Byungjik, who said, yeah, I studied with Funakoshi and was honored to do so. Anyway, long story to say that to my mind, starting your own style back in the day was likely a matter of isolation - but nowadays we aren't isolated, and there's great value of being in a large, even global, community.
TKD, was a conglomeration of these, brought about largely because the dictator Syngman Rhee wanted Korea to have a martial art that could go to the Olympics, because Japan had judo in the Olympics. So TKD was a forced marriage of styles, and it's now falling apart, has been for some time, and that's okay and interesting. Myself, after years practicing different flavors of TKD, for the last few years have been studying Parker style kenpo karate, and enjoying it quite a bit (although my cardiologist thinks I'm way too old for violent training (77 isn't that old, and there's another guy in my gym who's got 6 months on me))
@King Woosh Short answer - it's fun, it's good exercise, and I love the community. Longer answer, I've been studying martial arts a long time, it seems to be part of who I am. One needs to exercise regardless of age, so it should be something one enjoys - otherwise it's easy to quit. Broad recommendations for people my age are "go out and walk" (did that during the lockdown, better than nothing, boring and I missed my friends at the dojo), or if you must do martial arts, you should be doing tai chi (very condescending, elders can't handle vigorous exercise with contact?).
Finally, true martial arts adapt to the body - otherwise it's not really a martial art, it's Bruce Lee showing what an amazing physical machine he has (sorry to pick on Bruce, but he's not alone in this). I started when I was very young, mid 20s, and the body I've got now is not the same one I had when I started. I've learned to understand my capabilities across a range of ages, and to both extend those capabilities - but work within the hard limits that are there. Try that with most other forms of exercise; you'll eventually hit a wall where you just can't do activity X anymore. Martial arts are not like that.
That's neat, That's Tangsoodo Moo Duk Kwan, I took that after I learned boxing & Greco Roman Wrestling, Sambo/ Systema & a little bit of Judo, I love Sambo that's the best Grappling art in my opinion I love the shorts Jacket & no belt System's. I been training for 20 years. For the street I want to Mix in Krav maga with Systema. Combat Sambo is awesome. There's tons of Italian martial arts Called Bastone Napolenano I want to try that. If I had to make up a Martial art I would call it ATG Anything Goes 😆 A-T-G beer bottles in the streets
@@frankperrella1202 Yeah, the Tangsoodo terminology wasn't around back then. You're aware, I'm sure, that tangsoodo is the Korean pronunciation of karate-do, and not the "way of the empty hand" that Japan came up with, but the "Tang hand way" from Okinawa (where Tang is a previous incarnation of what is now China). I suspect, but don't know, that the captains of Moo Duk Kwan used Tangsoodo as a way to separate themselves from the corrupt mess that taekowndo became.
@@SDongil Yes I took Tangsoodo in the 90's Cool stuff, I liked Grappling better, But got to know both. The Guy who Taught me Tangsoodo served in Vietnam his son has the gym now.
You look Young for your age keep up the training brother, I'm just doing it to keep in Shape & just in case I have to protect my family or friends or at Church I help with the Security guard, Shame People have to have a Security guard in Place of Worship. I bet you miss the good days. Did you do any Japanese Jujutsu? Japanese Jujutsu is kinda grappling & Judo is how we got BJJ I didn't do BJJ but I like Sambo/Systema we have a lot of Italians, Russian's, Ukrainian, Vietnamese & Polish families in my area.
Having them all join you for the get out and train part was epic ngl.
I feel like everyone who is at a blackbelt or equivalent level should make their own style to the extent they should branch out learn more and determine what works for them personally. I do this and whenever I teach my students back home I teach them the new stuff I learn, but I do not try to get them to fight like me or follow my way. Ultimately, as a martial arts teacher/coach, I see my goal as one to help them learn to think on their own and create their own effective way of doing things.
I know I do things differently than the 7 principal people who have taught me, but I don't feel the need to give my way a name as it's just that. I do it my way.
I'm of the opinion you get to a certain level everyone creates their own "style" as they adapt their arts to match their body and personality. So it's really just depends on what you determine is a new style or just your way of expressing the martial art.
Not just you have to costumize technics to your atributes but also there are so many possiblities you will probably have to specilize and creat a new system around the technics and set ups you prefer.
It is called gameplan
I think the Superfoot System is a great example of how to start a martial art in the modern day. Bill didn’t set out to create it, never even had his own Dojo. He just had this really unique way of fighting and was doing seminars enough that people wanted to dedicate their time to learning his way philosophy of combat and making it their own. So the style kind of just formed around him, he never really set out to create a style. Which is why it’s a system, he designed it as something to supplement what ever you train full time. Some people train it as a style but most people train it as this supplement system.
The camera illusion makes Icy Mike look 4 feet tall here lol... Great video guys. Thanks
I teach others to write computer programs. And I find your discussion applicable to topics more, than just fighting. Especially when Icy Mike said like "it's your students word that matters".
What's remarkable to me is how mature all the participants are. In a context of martial arts, or any other context for that matter, this is a LOT of maturity.
I love seeing you guys just chilling and talking, listening to other perspectives - even if your opinions all were quite close to another- and just respectfull answering a honest question. This is just really nice to see. 😊
I could listen to you guys all day
I'm going to out myself as a science nerd and treat martial arts similar to computer languages. It's long, but I'm passionate about this.
There are high level languages which software tends to operate in, such as Python, which you can use to make a variety of useful things. And lower level languages are more fundamental to computer operation, like Assembly. They're really hard to learn, but you're basically a god if you master one or two. And when it comes to new languages, it's not easy to build a new computer language when all you know are high level languages. Understanding that low level function is highly useful, if not outright necessary.
In martial arts, I think of these systems as kinesthetic languages. I consider the lowest level styles to be the likes of wrestling and kickboxing. Every culture has them, and they are fundamental to our movements, grappling being lower level than striking in my understanding. A higher level system to me is like Karate or TKD, which adds some finer finesses, restrictions, and specified techniques. And even higher yet is Taijiquan and Aikido. You can make them work, but you need to nail the low level fundamentals first.
You don't build a computer from scratch by starting with the apps. You start at the motherboard. In martial arts, too, you need to master the basic movements before anything fancy.
New languages come out all the time, which build on that which already exists. Some are enhancements on old things, and even old languages evolve. In the same way, martial arts must evolve to stay relevant, or he left behind to niche applications. And of course, the creation of new martial arts demands excellence in high and low level styles, if it is to be legitimized.
That's a great analogy.
@@cosmoreverb3943 thank you! It actually helped me better approach not just martial arts, but fitness as a whole. And in a wonderful twist, approaching martial arts this way also made me a better programmer.
man, I'm still trying to figure out what the prolog of martial arts is
That initial reaction to "I invented my own martial art." is exactly why this guy should not go around saying he invented his own martial art. I'm glad Rokas brought up Matt Thornton's approach as it seems much healthier than this guy's quest for "recognition".
I tell people that I am a system founder... mainly to show that I am a creative human being. It is not about being a "Billy badass" or egotistical superhero, it is about being acknowledged for the 1000s of hours of I have spent developing it... I don't pretend to be strong in areas that I am weak or weak in areas that I am strong... I'm just tired of being a dangerous and creative man who pretends to be less than what I actually am.
@@studytime3461 That's what I'm saying man. It gives people the wrong impression of you straight off the bat.
As does this:
"I'm just tired of being a dangerous and creative man who pretends to be less than what I actually am."
Dude. Don't say shit like this if you want people to take you seriously.
You got some great advice from the guys.
At this point in your life, any recognition you're going to get is from your students. What kinds of competition are/were you preparing your students for?
@@nickwilliams8302 not competition... street combatives.. I am an expert on impact and edged weapon modifications, handling/carrying and deployment from concealed positions. I only have 2 prospective students at this point... but I don't care about being taken seriously or not... what I care about is not hiding my true nature... it is no different than a guitarist openly talking about his favorite arpeggio patterns and why he prefers them when improvising
@@nickwilliams8302 the whole motive force behind me taking blade and bludgeon arts to a higher level than what is adequate for basic military or l.e.o. usage is that I wish to have the lethal capacity advantage over 99 percent of people who even have casual mma or weapon skills so that their opinions can be easily discounted at the end of the day... I was kicked out of a local competition mma gym because these "serious" martial artist were afraid of me. Not my fists.. but my mind, my personality, and my weapon knowledge
@@nickwilliams8302 so I suppose I do want to be taken seriously... but for being armed and dangerous in real time rather than just for my sharing my art and its concepts....
Sensei Seth doesn't talk much but when he weighs in, he basically resolves the entire issue being discussed in 3 sentences.
He's right that a new name only matters when it's tied to a rule set/sport. That's how modern martial arts develop. The old way they developed is like kung fu where people think they have secret techniques, but we're beyond that now as a worldwide community.
Now lets talk about changing up training methodology in the 21st century! Constraints-led approach/ecological approaches are fast gaining steam now and I'd love to weigh in with yall.
- Josh from Combat Learning Podcast
Start a new sport with a different rule set train for that ruleset & call your martial art the same name
What a blast, great topic aswell, creating your own martial art feels like old timey fantasy, in where it's not really necesary anymore outside of maybe a specific system that gives more than just hand to hand practices like Tritac Martial Arts
Not true... some people don't have access to a teacher in their hometown, so they need to come up with their own system just to self teach... also... some people have deformities that require modified techniques... I for example have a distorted spine and shoulder alignment, so my weapon grips and handling habits are markedly more safety oriented than many other f.m.a. styles because I have an exaggerated natural tendency to accidentally stab my lower body with standard icepick grip strikes.
One of my favorite things about the Ultimate Self Defense Championship is all of this extra, high-quality content that's come from all of these dudes sitting down and talking together.
I've referred to what rokus does as "rokus's functional akido" before when explaing who he was to my wife that one kinda feels right to say
And its not that hes reinvented the wheel its just recognisable
Jeff chan posted a video latly showing one of seths kicks and breaking it down. So you could see Jeff used some of seths karate and i dont think it would be weird.
I still prefer Rokido.
@@RamseyDewey honestly a badass name
One of the first martial arts schools I joined 7 years ago had this one red flag - the head instructor had made up his own martial arts style with a unique name for his customized "system" (he was also influenced by Systema, even though that wasn't the reason for the quotes). This sort of thing is honestly a red flag for me because that guy turned out to be a narcissistic cult leader running a McDojo. Now, I don't doubt good people exist who might have done this sort of "create a custom martial art" thing, but usually the best and most humble of practitioners have no pretense or delusion about their martial arts training. They don't think of calling it by any different name. They'll acknowledge the skills that were acquired from jiu jitsu, or boxing, or wrestling without having to attach a special name to it.
I could listen to you guys talk about these topics all day
This is a branding question. How to gain recognition:
1. Train lots of people
2. Win professional fights
3. Used in movies
4. TH-cam, tiktok, instagram
5. Record yourself challenging schools
6. Paid advertisement.
7. Franchise, have branches for your school in multiple states and countries.
8. Use certification system
9. Produce fighters that win tournaments
10. Collaborate with other TH-camrs.
11. Beat Mike Tyson, Conner McGregor, etc
12. Wow factor. Internal mastery like one inch punch, iron body, iron head, immovable structure, Ki, Chi, Prana etc.
13. Shock factor. Trash talk other arts explaining why some stuff doesn't work.
Mike went really deep there in the end, after the ship of Theseus problem went right over his head. I grew up in one of those styles that we bowed to a picture. Then I went into another that can be positively culty (yes, it's BJJ lol). I have absolute respect for my instructors, and for the ones that came before them, even though some were better instructors and fighters than they were people. We have to be able to separate things, and we shouldn't idolize anyone. Take the knowledge, but know to set aside the things that don't apply to you or that you disagree with.
The way Mike is sitting, he looks like a kid hanging out at the adult table.
i wish i could talk to you in real life. you're the best martial arts channel dewey. keep it up
Signing up for rokido!
To be pedantic Hung Gar(Hung Family) aka Hung Kuen(Hung Fist) was created by Hung Hei-gun. Wong Fei Hung was perhaps the most famous practitioner. I believe it originated from Shaolin
I appreciate all the content that came out of you getting together
Well, I think MMA is a good label to sell any selection of multiple techniques build into a coherent system. So that guy in the first question should just call it MMA with his selection of techniques that fit nice together. He is an MMA coach with his particular style.
I did invent one once…. It was inspired by Jackie Chan’s cup-holding drunken style, except it was based on holding a bong, so it was a stoned style. It was fun to practice, and an extremely effective defense system against small toddlers.
😂😂😂 love that, send the mystic Stoner to handle the zombie hordes of children 😂
Despite our differences regarding the truth of the LDS doctrine and the existence of deities and an afterlife, I genuinely love you human to human. You provide a premium service, which is potentially life saving, free of charge and do so happily and with honest intentions. You're an exemplary specimen of the species.
I did that back in the late '80s/early '90s, when schools began instituting "zero tolerance for fighting" policies that, in practice, punished students for defending themselves. I found that to be unconscionable, so I developed a style that could only be used nonviolently. It was basically Aikido theory applied via the purely defensive techniques of kickboxing and wrestling, plus some takedowns (modified to reduce the chance of the aggressor getting hurt) and leverage-based pins. The style was called "No Harm No Foul" and it was taught through a series of drills and sparring games. Worked fine for what it was - a way for bullied kids to defend themselves without getting suspended for "fighting".
I taught it to groups of elementary and high school aged students and later developed a version for the foster-parents of severely emotionally disturbed kids.
21:07 matter vs form, atoms vs purpose, attributes vs essence
If he wants recognition, he should make shirts and merch for it. Business cards, stickers, etc.
This is actually basically what I was thinking while watching this. It sounds like a marketing issue. If you have something you think is good but it isn't reaching people, it's either a marketing issue or you're wrong about how good it is.
@Perfect Human Interface I was thinking of that for myself. I may not have my own "style" but I wanted to to catch more people's attention, cuz I wanted to be a coach, but struggled with the path to get there.
Canadian folk boxing exists without recognition, but it's also known as "hockey fighting".
Around 22:45. They mention making a martial art under the name Set-kido (a pun on Seth's name). Which is comical as their is a Martial art in Okinawa Japan which (based off the advertisement and from the Instructors seminars that he does for the local Marines) that is made up of Capoeira, Judo, Karate, Muay Thai. Nobuhiro Hirahara founded the Martial art back in 1992 and has trained many kickboxers and shoot boxers. Most of his time now is spend training Marines for MMA and kickboxing fights. I thought this would be interesting as his classes follow the same structure of the small dojo the Dewey mentioned with the "stand up" philosophy. Hopefully someone enjoys reading this.
29mins and im just now realizing Mike is not sitting on a bench or chair.
Makes him look so much smaller.
My former taekwondo taecher, that was very eclectical and added what he thought useful, dindt call his place "X taekwondo school" but simply "Jorge Prieto MARTIAL school", school meaning not his style but his place, his students,, his legacy, etc.
PLEASE DO MORE OF THESE!! Rokas - thank you so much for motivating me to sub to all these guys. The Ultimate Self-Defense Championship is the best thing to happen to the martial arts side of youtube since Afro Ninja!
This is a great discussion. Would love to get more of this format some way or another (although I don’t know that zoom is necessarily an option for you)
Haha, watching this video was like watching history in making. I imagine (and you'll agree) this is how most of the big and important things were made. Bunch of experts brainstorming an idea, embracing it, digesting, evolving and finally materializing in to a common good. One day, when we all left this world, videos like this will be crucial evidence for historians.
I love these types of videos where you guys come together to discuss topic like this.
The important thing to understand is every martial artist on the certain level ends up with having his own style. If you do kickboxing, maybe one guy's background was tkd and he adapted it for kb, maybe another guy's background was boxing and he adapted it - the ways they teach and fight will be extremely different, same different as different karate or kung fu styles. It's less apparent but still is a thing in traditional martial arts - people still do traditional techniques different ways, including punches, blocks, stances, katas and even just posture or amount of muscles engagement.
Unarmed: Wrestling Grappling Striking. Armed: Simple Stick & improvised stuff found out of your dojo. Police Training & Body guard Training. If i ever opened a school we'd do Sparring and Self Defense championship styled assessments. As for the name "What Works". Uniform: what you wear in your daily job.
I already do its called Fondue...fighting and eating
I can't believe Rokas was so mean! 😭😭😭😭😭
Edgy Rokas came out to play!
I feel the "own style" is more related to business branding.
Aside from "Why?" promoting a new martial art today for "recognition" wouldn't be too much different than back in the day. Hard work. You're the master, you train other teachers or "disciples" and they open schools on their own. You travel and do seminars. It's almost a life dedication if recognition is what you're after. And it may not happen while you're alive. I haven't watched this whole video yet but just throwing this in.
As someone who was born in China and spent 13 years of his life even though I am not native Chinese and my parents are foreigners. How does it feel like being a foreigner in China. I remember getting comments like wai guo ren or xinjiang ren
After 15 years, I don’t really think about it. Little kids always shout 外国人！When they see me. And they always look confused when I say 中国人！back to them. I have a lot of Uighur friends and students from Xinjiang. We hang out sometimes outside of class, that’s when I hear 新疆人。It’s been really hard for those guys to find jobs since all the American anti China propaganda from activists thinking they were helping the people of Xinjiang. Now just to avoid controversy, a lot of Chinese companies won’t hire Uighur people at all, so a lot of them have turned to prize fighting just to get by.
That’s like me in the Philippines. Kids will say something in Tagalog when they see me, a white guy, and they are just blown away when I answer in Tagalog.
@@RamseyDewey Aside from all that propaganda. The uighur people are a turkic ethnic group known as karluk turks like uzbeks. Their features are pretty similar to that of a lot of other central asian turkic ethnic groups and I think there is a lot of racism between them and the chinese. My parents are from Pakistan and we moved to the US at the age of 13 and I am currently 19 years old.
I so enjoyed this conversation. Thank you for this.
You guys need to make this a twice a month podcast. not just one or two of you, no ALL of you together wacking all sorts of issues. i'd subscribe and pay for it no doubt.
there is a serious lack of good podcasts about MA
I second this!
Oooo… it would have be remote via the internet. International flights twice a month would really add up!
@@RamseyDewey no doubt via webs.. and can already see this happening and being THE GOAT MA podcast
All of these collabs with you guys are so great!
Ramsey - The Dewey Decimate System. Credit to the other commenters
Icy Mike- North American Street Fighting. Great name imo
Rokas- Rokido
Seth- Sum Po Te (combining sumo, and Kempo karate)
I very much agree with the group about not needing to create a new martial arts. There is a big difference between a martial art style and a martial art program. I created my own program that I run out of my basement with ten students currently. It blends karate, wing chun, jui jitsu, boxing, judo, and wrestling. The program is called Modo Mitis, but I wouldn't say that it's a "style" in and of itself. I often am letting my students know where the techniques we're learning come from rather than saying they're part of the "style."
Icy Mike at 7:16 --> busts out the little-used (in the USA) but CORRECT version of the "proof of the pudding" saying. Nice!
I have learned from many people. Ramsey Dewey, Master Wong, hard to hurt, bjj freaks. So my martial art style is De Wong Wey To hurt freaks😂
The video itself was interesting, and great to hear everyone's thoughts. Have a buddy who has studied several styles. If you looked up his school it's listed as Karate or Shōrin-ryū Karate, but he incorporates elements of BJJ and a few other styles in the classes when addressing various topics. Don't think he's ever tried to claim it was more than Shōrin-ryū and qualifies, hay, this is something from outside the style that might help in these situations.
Off topic, but man this stuck in my head. The camera angles didn't do Icy Mike justice in this video. Think it was in the first episode of the Ultimate Self Defense Championship where Icy Mike said something to the effect of as a smaller person you are always comparing heights. There is this one view that keeps coming up that makes Mike look like a ventriloquist's dummy that had been left on the bench.
Holy cow...they got into the "Ship of Theseus" philosophical problem! Awesome!
How you answer the question says a lot about your metaphysical assumptions. If a martial art is just a gym or a personality, then it can change but still be associated with the same individual. If a martial art is defined strictly formally, in terms of movements, then any change will constitute a change of art forms.
I 100% agree with the group.
Why is the main question when creating a style. And I, and anyone that has trained for 20+ years, can see how whatever system you trained under can be improved. I can see the appeal to take the couple of styles you already know (and have mastered), want to drop the stuff you don't like and emphasize what you find does work.
But why call it a new 'martial art'? What is the point in that? Just teach how to fight, teach what works, and students will come and stay with you. You don't need to name it something special.
Five Ways. The martial art I will found :) (I'm kidding, I'm a pilot) - but there are five ways to fight:
1. Strike fighting - striking while at distance.
2. In fighting - striking while in contact.
3. Stand up grappling & throwing - like Judo.
4. Ground fighting - BJJ/wrestling.
5 The most important, and the one that beats all of the others - Strategy, tactics and attitude.
... and you only need about six techniques in each category. Everything else is practice & fitness.
I can't wait for Rokas to drop Aikido 2
You mean Rokido?
If what the gentleman wants is recognition as a coach, then the road to this goal has been paved many, many time: produce winners.
(Disclaimer: I do not think of myself as a martial artist, and nobody who takes martial arts seriously would consider me a martial artist either. I am, at best, a hobbyist. I am the least qualified person to weigh in, but I have something to say.)
The most recent example of this that comes to mind is Pedigo Submission Fighting. Most people who hear about PSF hear about the monster competitors it produces, like Andrew Wiltse and Jacob Couch. They don't even know if Pedigo is the name of the town they're from, the name of the coach, or a combination of some kind. That's because Heath Pedigo puts his focus on his students.
My opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it, and it can be dismissed or ignored with no consequences.
This was a great discussion! Interesting question! I wonna see "that guy's" Stuff!
I was wondering how you knew vovinam was so new?
I'm a Muay Thai coach living in hanoi and it has intruiged me why the martial arts scene is so young despite many countries in the region having such long and rich cultures of it.
I'm a fan of the traditional Chinese method of creating a style: Your students create/name your style in honor of your legacy, postmortem. You're not supposed to honor yourself; you're supposed to honor your teachers.
It is an art, unless they are named Martial "Arts" just for funsies. I do art, but the visual kind, and I don't ask somebody to recognize my art as something different from surrealism or expressionism. I do it because it feels right, but each to their own.
If it is a new "valid" Martial Art, it does not mean it is better than other Martial Arts, new or old, or is any good at actual fighting (although it might be), it just earned a word so that people can distinguish it from something else because that is what words/labels are for.
I just wanted to add to all your answers, which I learned a lot from. Lovely to see great people exchanging great ideas. Cheers.
YES ! that s why i got also hyped also by the USDC :) i hope you made more of those with those guys.
There was very little free time for extra-curricular filming. I did make one other video with Rokas on the last day in Sydney. I did a collab that’s on Seth’s channel right now. I did a short sanda sparring session with Jeff. A spot on a video with Rokas that hasn’t come out yet. And a guest appearance in one of Mike’s videos about fighting kangaroos.
Honnestly i was way more interested by the collabs around the UDSC, you said in first the episode, internet seemed to think you and mike are arch enemy or antagonizing each other, knowing your channels from a year now and the conversation you had in your videos, i was pretty much sure you would more or less share your thoughts.
i ll try to keep the foul language out of your comments sections : this is FREAKING awesome.
(will have to look for Seth and Jeff channels)
I like Mike's impersonations of Ramsey Dewey 😆
I love the LDS missionaries with the Tao of Jeet Kun Do books.
You guys are my own personal Bruce Lee
A lot of it, imo is going to come down to an organic process where a person becomes famous using a personal style. Which then causes others to ask to train under them. I dont really have a name for what I teach as far as knife fighting etc goes but i have been in enough & proven my ability to the point where others have asked me to train them here & there but im not famous nor do i want to be etc. But if i were then there is a good chance it could "evolve" into a full fledged system. Kind of like a "stars aligning" type situation where many diff aspects of life just come together but one would have to be really good to reach that level of fame.
First off, Thanks Coaches, I subscribe to all of your channels and I appreciate your martial arts wisdom. But I want to talk about Coach Ramsey and Icy Mike here for a minute. First Coach Ramsey has a video he did a while back about Traditional Martial arts being like a dead language. It basically said that there is no adaptation in styles for certain situations that may arise. Which makes things like modern martial arts better or more relevant I should say.
Coach Ramsey went through much the same as me, bullied a lot and looked to martial arts for defense. What he found was disappointment in that because as he will tell you, Self Defense is a power fantasy. This is where Icy Mike come in. He is Literally the BEST self defense INSTRUCTOR, I ever came across in my like, and I am a few years older than Coach Ramsey. Now I say instructor because I believe as Ramsey does, is it defense, or fighting back? Defense in my life experience is about Avoidance, plain and simple. If you feel weird about a situation, turn around and walk away from it, simply put. Don't walk into trouble. Icy Mike instructs, because no one needs to be taught how to fear, which fear is there to make us aware, but being instructed to walk into someplace more visible, or where to go is different. You all Know about it, your awareness gets majorly heightened when there is that adrenaline flowing because something feels wrong.
Rokas also has been bullied, and he found much the same as Ramsey in his effort to learn self defense. Aikido is effective, but it was about Fighting back in his eyes instead of just avoiding. I respect all of you, don't get me wrong. I Respect Rokas a great deal because he continues his search, and I watched him attempt to functionalize Aikido to be more recognized as functional. His journey became his own instead of about Aikido. It is about Rokas, and how he feels about His Aikido.
Which brings me to my next point, adaptation. I am a BJJ student, but I don't want my Coaches BJJ to be all I know. I want a base, a foundation to work off of, but in the end it will be my BJJ and no one elses unless I decide to teach. I don't need recognition to prove I know something that others don't know. I just need to prove to myself, I can do this and I like it.
My Journey brought me peace. Jesse Enkamp Said it best, Our training brings us peace in this chaotic world.
Great video and subject. This made my morning. I was organizing some papers and simply just listening to it when I hear Seth go off with his Golem voice haha. That was fairly impressive. The book of Ecclesiastes said it well: “What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun." I have seen it done first hand where a guy with a bit of experience leaves the gym, of a martial art that's already a mix of styles, throws lots of it away and adds some odd new stuff, because he states it works great for him, but doesn't realize it probably won't work well for everyone, especially begginers. The gym lasted for about a year, and I'm pretty sure he payed most of the rent with funds from his daytime job. Think he had 5 guys in there at most. I give him credit for trying. He never came back to the original gym. For some reason, I can picture some of these people over selling themselves. Like a guy that's decided to mix his Karate and judo together, but the only strikes he does are exact copies of Paul Pheonix's from tekken. Than his students enter a kudo tournament, and the entire time have the audience wondering what's going on. Aswell as their opponents after a while. "Heeeeeeyaaaaah! If that would of hit, I would smashed you through the wall and we would of had to start fighting outside!" ...."Ok......" guy than winds up for the low hammer fist sweep *thud* "What the heck guy! Did you really just duck down to hammer fist me in the calf!?" "Why isn't this working? Your suppose to go down, than i uppercut palm strike you to knock you into the air, where I than scissor kick you...." "I'm really not sure if what your doing is Karate there guy." Maybe Matt could start his own theoretical style. I don't think anything would be more epic if he went into an organized mma fight and the first thing he did was fire off a haduken, than to have the other fighter jump and fly back as a joke, but he looses his footing, lands hard and ends up out cold. Everyone's just kind of like wondering what just happened. Than some Karate master in the audience stands up and yells "He is the chosen one!"
29:00 yeah, I used to go to gym that had "MMA, karate, kickboxing, jiujitsu" on their advertising. They just did jiujitsu and kickboxing, eventually their striking instructor left and they just do jiujitsu now- but all their advertising still says "MMA, karate, kickboxing, jiujitsu" lol
When you're subscribed to all of these guys it's hard to tell at first whose channel you're on. I'd love to see more group chats from these guys.
This collabs are sick.
The way I see it, things should happen naturally. If you naturally evolve your fighting style into something that is actually different and useful, then people in your periphery will also naturally notice it and ask you what you call your style, or will give it a name for you, and your style will naturally rise to recognition. This is probably what happened with BJJ, MMA and many others.
I don't think the person who asked the question was in that situation, or else he wouldn't need to be asking the question.
I think there's a practical approach to the "naming" issue. You have to call your school something, whether you want to or not. You can't open a school and just call it "MMA." You could certainly put "MMA" in the title. But I think you can name your school according to whatever you believe to be most practical in achieving what you want to achieve.
It used to be that people learned fighting and differentiated between styles from different schools they had access to. It wasn't that you picked a style and then found a school that offered that style. You just picked a school. The school was the style. Of course as societies modernized, lineages spread and the amount of options we have access to grew considerably, so it makes sense that that has largely changed. But I think at the end of the day we have to recognize that still today, in many ways, the style doesn't actually matter as much as the school, which is to say, as much as the instructor(s).
If you're going to operate a school that focuses on teaching particular known styles, which is to say it's a school meant for people who specifically want to learn those styles, might as well name it something that includes those styles in the title. If your school is meant to be something a little different, then you can name it whatever you think fits and communicates that intention.
You have to name your school something. What you name your school doesn't so much matter, beyond whether or not it communicates what it is effectively, and perhaps whether or not it sounds dumb or egotistical or whatever other subjective measures. But here's a different question: if you start a school, even if it's offering a totally unique approach, are you creating a "style" or just a school? Is every school really its own style? Or does something only become a style after it has spread to more schools?
HAHAHA. Mai-ki-do (air dance way), Seth-do-ku (Seth way of pain), Ro-katsu (furnace victory, because you burn 'em with technique), and of course, Ram-sei-du-wei-do (The Way of Ramsey Dewey). I can definitely get behind that (because if I get in front of the four of you throwing techniques, I'd have a world of hurt coming my way, haha). Love you guys and your content.
How to get ur martial art recognised?
1. Step one organise some fights.
2. Wait a few years.
3. Hire a good action director.
4.make fim about your life and fights.
5. Show the fight in exarated and dramatic way.
6. Have a good script.
7. If the movie go hit. Soon people will recognise ur martial art.
8. If needed reboot the series in a few years
I may very well be wrong here but to me, mma, bjj, kick boxing, karate, and others is the system, the style comes from the individual. For example, Seth's style of karate he teaches is his own personal take of a system in the many systems of karate. His students have their own style and take on what he teaches.
Interesting discussion. I am reminded of the verse in Proverbs (new American standard Bible) : iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.