Great job Kevin, not only did you teach us about how your furler works but gave us great life lessons in patience. Your explanations were spot on to why and wherefores you were doing each step of the reassembly and which parts you chose to replace. Thank you so much for sharing with us out here in youtube land. Good luck in your further adventures on the big blue.
Thanks Obit. I've learned so much myself from watching other do these types of things and in the end it's the small little things that make the projects successful ( or failures as the case may be).
Thanks Kev I much appreciate the extreme level of detail contained in your vlogs. To be constantly be considering camera angles, as well as tackling the task in hand shows great tenacity - regards from EF
I agree with EF, outstanding video work and your attention to detail. I just found your channel and have been going through all your clips. You have a BEAUTIFUL yacht and a gorgeous First Mate. Sorry about Doc. I had a German Sheppard that was smarter than most people I know and when I lost her to cancer, at the young age of 15, it just tore our hearts out. They are just like your children. I'm retired and looking for a steel 50' catch to purchase. Fair winds and stay safe. P.S. Don't listen to these arm chair sailors, you guys are doing a GREAT JOB !
Kevin, it took me a long time to warm up to your style of narration but you certainly know wtf you’re doing, both from a sailing and maintenance point of view. I enjoy your videos quite a bit now and look forward to the next one. Keep up the great work.
Hi Phil. Yeah, it takes me a while to warm up to my narration sometimes too. I kind of wish I'd taken more public speaking courses in college. In the end though, we're just a couple who are out there doing the cruising thing and it seems a lot of people are interesting in watching it. We do the best we can and probably satisfy 85-90% of the viewers, which is good enough for me.
Patience is a virtue. Watching your video for the crossing from Cadiz to Gibraltar was not tense for me. Most of my sailing years were done between Puerto Rico and the Islands in the Southern Caribbean in times where weather prediction services were not available and GPS was not in use. Also, it was upwind one way and downwind on the return most of the time with either 20 up wind speeds or just 0. What kept me biting my nails were episodes 47 and 48 as you performed your excellent work on your electric furler. It was like watching brain surgery. The good thing about them was that I learn that I have future prediction skills. The second that you started using the lock pliers to remove that screw next to the edge of the boat, I knew that the pliers were going overboard. What I love about your videos is that they are more than just watching hundreds of boring night watch hours and they are down to earth examples of what cruising is.
Hi HC. I am singularly unable to talk and think at the same time. If I've got the camera running I will always miss the obvious, and watching that clip I knew I should have seen the priers getting ready to go overboard. It wasn't even the first screw. Those pliers had slipped off every one of the previous screws at one point or another. As for the furler, I didn't include the two times that I had the whole thing ssembled only to have to take it apart again. But we've got probably 3,000nm on the boat since then and that furler runs like clockwork. We love it and only wish that we had something similar for the headsail. Finally, your last comment is the key. It's the actual concept of our channel, which is to show as much of the unvarnished truth of full time cruising as we can capture. Thanks so much for being with us.
Feel free John. Did you end up with the Catalina 27? I doubt your furler is by Hood Formula, but if it is the company is no longer in business. I have the files (as does Eddie S at Oyster) and I can send them if you need. Contact me off list if this becomes something. I wanted to stop by the shop Monday but knew that you take Mondays off. We were heading out Tuesday morning so was my last visit to the valley. Hope Morgan and Kennedy are doing well. All the best! KK & W
I am sold on never having in mast furling. Thank you for sharing the hazards and headache easy sailing can cause. Hoisting and reefing seem quite simple compared to what you went through. Can't imagine how bad things could get in heavy seas with a full main stuck.
Hi Bruce. To each their own, but I have to say that slab reefing is no easy alternative. The reefing lines jam constantly and the bigger the sails and wind, the more difficult it becomes. Once you get above 50' you almost never see slab reefing because the power becomes too great. Cruising couples just can't cope with it and the wife becomes scared of the sail power. She knows that neither of them can do it alone. When a good in-mast system is maintained in good condition it is a thing of beauty. Yesterday we had a big 5 hour run down the west coast of Corfu in Greece to the harbor at Lakka, south of Corfu. Winds increased dramatically as the day wore on, but didn't affect our sailing as we were running off the wind. However, upon arrival we furled the headsail (as it was being shadowed by the main under a new heading), and then spun the boat 180 degrees and wound the main in with a flip of the toggle switch in about 10 seconds. The wind was easily blowing 25 knots and the waves were pretty significant. I was very glad to have the system we have.
I fully understand your logic and have extreme respect for your technical knowledge, sadly I do not have your mechanical abilities which makes owning a large boat beyond my reach. As a solo sailor 40 feet is pushing the envelope. Hoping to find a Sirius 35DS one of these days. Love your in depth mechanical insight and the entire buying process, not many folks share the real technical side of cruising which is by far the biggest safety factor on the open ocean. You're a lucky man, beautiful wife and a beautiful boat! Keep up the great work!
Thanks for the kind words. Soloing a big boat would be a scary proposition. I see it done as we're sailing around, but always end up wondering how often things don't go as planned. The guy who put Talisman back together after 7 years on the hard (who is a transfer skipper) told me once that in the beginning he thought the life would be about sailing but soon learned that it was really about keeping diesel engines running. Engines and everything else it turns out.
I am a marine engineer and mechanical fitter, have a suggestion the next time you have a similar situation. The problem initially was a loose grub screw that did the damage. Rather than trusting loctite to solve problems, make sure the keyway and key are not loose, burs cleaned then use a second grub screw as a locking screw if there is enough thread available. The bevel gear should be ok to use as the rotation is slow and maybe some gearbox oil with a lower viscosity. Thanks for sharing your travels.
Hi Peter. Thanks for your help. I think the keyway took too much material away to put one grub screw on top of another. But as I told another commenter (and I omitted a few steps in the video), I chased the threads with the appropriate tap, then soaked the gear and new grub screws in brake cleaner to make sure there were no contaminants present before putting it all together. This is always half the battle. I honestly feel that mechanically this furler is pretty low power in comparison to a car transmission or ATV differential. I'll keep an eye on the fluids, and especially if I see any leaking in the future I'll probably switch to 90 weight gear oil. However, I lean toward using what the manufacturer recommends if no obvious reason to do otherwise. I have to say that I respect and desire the kind of information that you and others provide. Many times it's the small stuff that makes for a successful repair.
The plastic could be acetal. Great job you're doing here. I've never tried Tefgel, usually I use Duralac on these kind of mixed metal assemblies. Don't know if it's better or worse, but it seems to work ok.
HI Guys. Good to see you putting this problem to bed and getting ready for your next adventure. A boat is a hole in the water into which you pour money (and effort). Something always needs attention. TH-cam is the biggest source of inspiration for wannabe cruisers. Its good you show the cruising life with all its frustrations - And you have yet to touch on the over zealous officials you always encounter along the way. You deserve the TH-cam honour spotted on the opening titles. Heading back out to Greece in the morning with 5 kilos of clothes and 25 kilos of spare parts! Plus fingers crossed that nothing bad has happened in the six months since we stepped aboard.
Hi Alenka. I sent 5 or 6 huge boxes filled with clothes, parts, tools, kitchen/galley stuff, and small crap we could have bought in the UK out to Scotland when we moved aboard. Yes, the boats are expensive but nobody ever promised they'd be cheap. When compared to a house, there are similarities in cost. You buy less in the way of bulky items like furniture and large electronics, but the systems are more complex and seem to break a lot more often (saltwater environment). As for the channel, we try to put the unvarnished cruising life front and center. There are a lot of fun aspects, but a lot of kicks to the groin too. We have luckily not come across many over zealous officials yet, but I'm sure we'll find them eventually.
7:20 These bevel gears are probably standard lego parts? Once you figure out the module and count the teeth you should be able to find off the shelve gears. At least "machinable" parts that can be bored to match your shaft etc. I'd go that route to finde spares for a later replacement. Thanks for sharing the video. Happy sailing!
Good advice. I think the furler is way overbuilt and the gears are something you'd see in an ATV or such like. We've got about 5 months on the furler since the rebuild (we're pretty far behind in our video editing) and the thing is powerful and smooth. I think we're good on the gears. When things fail next, it will be the seals I'm pretty sure. But with new, modern German sourced seals I think we have a number of years before that happens.
What do you think of the in-mast furling? I am planning on purchasing a Valiant 42 in the next couple of years, so starting with trying to do as much research on them as possible, creating a "must have" and "avoid" list. Any advice you can give me as far as what to look out for stuff you wish you knew before buying would be much appreciated. Love the videos!
@@anthonyfrattalone9937 Hi Anthony. The Valients are good offshore boats and you probably won’t get yourself in trouble. As for furling, slab reefing is better performance (since you have horizontal battens for sail shape). But reefing is a bigger job, and some boats (like Swan) make you go to the mast to release the main halyard. You also typically have set reefing points, generally two for smaller boats and three for larger, although owners can always have a sail loft add a third. By comparison, in-mast reefing is infinite, and at least with our Hood electric furler, we can reef even under moderate load, without having to come up into the wind. All lines tend to run to the cockpit, and this helps keep everyone safe. Leaving the cockpit, especially at night, means clipping yourself to a jackline or other attachment point, as well as supervision by a second person. Also note that most modern slab reef designs do lead the lines aft, so this isn’t necessarily an either/or thing. As for in-mast, there are a lot of people who have had problems with this style of furling, as have we as documented on our channel, but on balance I would opt for it again as no furling system is failproof. I think the main issue is usually jamming of the sail inside the mast. This happens if you don’t provide adequate outhaul tension during deployment, or if you start rotating the sail in and out trying un-jam a stuck sail. Also, boom height at the clew is critical. A boom with too much or two little angle will cause the sail to get diagonal wrinkles in it as it furls, and this causes the sail to get multiple extra layers in the fabric. Thus, the furled sail is now larger in diameter, and too big to fit in the mast cavity. I think you learn the system you own (and how to use it reliably) with time.
@@SailingTalisman thanks so much for the detailed reply. I understand it better now. You should really make more educational sailing videos - perhaps on sail trim, route planning, or other complicated topics since you are very good at explaining things. Despite their being a lot of sailing content on the internet, there are not many sources that do a good job explaining difficult concepts in easy-to-understand ways like. you can do. Perhaps you have more educational content hidden in your videos - in that case, it would be nice to compile them in a playlist that cuts out all the other stuff. Just some ideas. Love the channel. Thanks again!
@@SailingTalisman or perhaps when you do have educational parts in your videos, put the topic and time stamp in the video description so those of us with limited time but want to learn can more easily find them. have a great season! I'll be couch sailing here in MN but at least I have a couple charters booked and the "retirement "countdown timer is nearing its end! I also signed up for Kretschmer's bluewater course for next year as it was booked this year already, partly due to your content. cheers!
We don't, usually. The little sucker looked like it would make a nice washer and I set it aside not realizing how tightly machined it was. Then when the new one didn't fit I went into a frenzy trying to find it, which I eventually did.
Hi Gary. Hood Formula is no longer in business as far as I can tell. They got into making (huge) wind turbine blades and either the business shifted there or the whole thing blew up. But luckily the parts are off the shelf auto parts that are available locally for the most part. If you can contact me off list (my email is available in the "About" tab of our TH-cam channel) I will get you all the pics and instructions that Hood Formula sent me.
Hi Kevin.Good morning. I have a boat fitted with the same mainsail furler as you. Formula Hood) you did a great job on yours and seems to know a lot of things. My husband pass away and i didn’t know any thing about maintenance of my furler. I am in Malaysia and the rigger said me it will be great to change all the the oring. my furler was still ok. he has completely dismantled it and does not know how to put it back together! please help us get the plans and all the information needed to put it back together. Thanks a lot. Beatrix.
Hi Beatrix. Yes, I have all the Hood Formula docs. On the TH-cam landing page, go to the “About” tab. My email is there. Send me an email and I’ll get them to you, with other important advice. Main thing, don’t throw any parts away!
@@SailingTalismanthanks a lot. I just send you a mail. Hope to read you soon , i Hope tomorow get the plans. I am so confuse with my rigger whoo can't reassemble the furler. Again thanks.
Great video. Just one question, I agree, doing it yourself is important for many reasons but with the Christmas break and the many complexities of the job/parts and additional cost while you're working on that equipment, any chance it would've been cheaper to ship it off to be rebuilt? Thanks for allowing us to tag along. Boat looks great. Fair winds!
Hi Clay. Good question. In retrospect, this was a project that grew in size as we went along. At first I thought I'd just be buying the motor, but the advice given was to do the seals and bearings too. On paper, this seemed easy enough. But as we got into it, I decided to recoat the parts, and then to recoat some additional parts too, and then to have a bunch of machine work done. I think Hood Formula could have rebuilt the furler itself, but likely would have balked at coatings. They almost certainly could have added the Delrin bushings, but I suspect pricing would have been similar in the end. Shipping would have been a big risk. The all-in pricing could have gone either way I suppose. Thanks for watching.
Oh, and doing the major labor of disassembly and assembly saved a ton of money I'm sure. Even a pro at the factory would not have done the job in less than a 3rd of the time I spent. It was just a bear of a job.
So it looks like you didn't get the powder coating? It has to be baked for about 30 minutes at 400°. Also if the plastic they used is grey, it's probably delrin.
Hi Phillip. Powder coating was an option, but the guys at James Molinary in Gib were highly recommending the Jotan Jotacoat product, which was a two part primer/paint coating that was a bit cheaper and by their claims incredibly durable. It's been a couple of years now and the color is still bright and shiny with no chips or blistering, so we're happy. As for the present, our mast is off in Antigua and the painter just sent pics of it (along with boom, vang, and whisker pole) stripped to the bare metal. They'll be applying/spraying Awlgrip product as a replacement. The engineering plastic they cut the sheaves from was black in color, as is the new set I received recently for the masthead. It's probably Delrin or a generic version of Delrin. The old plastic was undoubtedly the best of what was available at the time, but became chalky and prone to elongation of the holes under repeated and sustained loads.
@@SailingTalisman that's great. I recently read paints don't like to stick to aluminum. But there's so many new products coming out today. I researched cement floor coatings and some much better products out now. Most never heard of.
@@philzail2532 Aluminum is tricky because it forms its own barrier to corrosion. If you clean aluminum down to the bare metal (sanding/grinding/etc.) you have about two hours (or less) to coat the aluminum. After that the coatings are unlikely to adhere well. So most failed aluminum paint jobs are really failed prep jobs. Also, if you're painting galvanized metals you need to clean with vinegar (light acid) first.
Hi Kevin, great job. As I do have a similar furling system from Hood, i wanted to ask you if you can send me a copy of the manual you used. I‘m looding gearbox oul on the side where I can attach the manual crank for manualy in or outfurling the main. Would be a great help.
Hi Hans. Sorry I missed this. Do you still need the manuals? If so, get my email off the "about" page in the Sailing Yacht Talisman home page and send me a request.
It's a St Andrews flag from Scotland. The Scots treated us so well in the early days that we felt it would be nice to fly their flag as a secondary courtesy flag, at least for a while.
Hi Kev ,Ive been following your adventure since Troon. Im from Scotland myself ,nice to know you were treated well. My boat is in the next marina to you in Alcaidesa over the border.
Hi James. Great to hear you're in Alcaidesa. We're presently in Sardinia (the furler has been working great-many miles on it now), and will be passing back through Gib/La Linea either late this summer or late the following summer depending on our cruising decisions. We'd love to see you when we do.
Hi Kev, Glad to know the main furling motor is working . I dont live far from La Linea so more than likely I should be here when you return. Im looking forward more of your adventures on youtube & wish you & Wendy a safe voyage & happy sailing.
Just out of interest who gave you access to their workshop? Seems like it was rather critical, when it was fixed it looked great though :-)! Kind of thinking that in mast furling might be more trouble than it's worth :-)! Great job and well done. Well done to the machinists too :-)!
I asked around Gibraltar and had gotten a lead at James Molinary Chandlery. To call it a chandlery was a bit of a stretch as what they really do is refit and resupply superyachts. Anyway, the guys there took me under their wing and agreed to do the paint work. I then asked if they had a place where I could assemble the furler. They probably didn't know how involved the job was, but the little workshop room I was in was tucked into an unused walk-in freezer, and pretty out of the way. Those guys were rock stars. As to your comment about in-mast furling being more trouble than it's worth, we've put probably 10,000nm on the boat since the repair and the furler is still going strong with no failures at all. It's a great system, but needs to be maintained as you go.
I'm late coming to this video. but I know you you went with a rebuild on this most likely for the cost savings, but I really like to ask . .. could you ever just replace the whole for Furler? or was it no longer able to be ordered. ? and if you could have just ordered the whole new Furler. ? do you have any idea what it would have cost ?
Good questions. Formula would likely have had to completely build one from scratch as the mast sections they use now are different and the unit fits like a glove around the aluminum. In all honesty, the major parts were in perfect condition. All that was needed was needed was a new motor, motor shaft, and seals. The bearings, while in depleted shape, would have continued to work I imagine. But of course changing those out just made things run smoother in the end. We've used the furler successfully since January and have had no problems.
Sailing Yacht Talisman .... you answer my question though ,,. You can no longer buy replacement part and swap it out... with the mass section being different the setup on the boat is obsolete... you have to rebuild , or find anther used part available somewhere... my question wasn't really concerning whether that you did a great job , or if it would worked . I'm sure it will , and you did do a great job .. I was just more curious as to whether it was still available as a purchasable product.. .thanks for. Replying.
Yes, I see. No, the exact part is not being made any more. This is typical for boats in general. You will find that the suppliers of marine hardware change from one design to a better one and pretty much ignore the failures of the past. The older the boat, the more of a problem this becomes. Luckily, much of it is pretty simple in what is being done, so fixes can be had. In our case, the main furler casting, shafts, gears, foil, and swivel are all pretty indestructible. The bearings and seals are off the shelf automotive parts and are thus easily obtained. Even the motor is a standard industrial part that is commonly used in other applications. This is where buying a boat from a company that is still in business really pays off. They can almost always point you to the original suppliers, and from there you can get replacement parts.
I think 1 mistake was to follow what has already proved wrong. The thread lock there, soaking in hydraulic fluid- Red not blue. Something else you might conciser as tolerances have worn away, increase viscosity which would reduce plate vibration. I enjoy the Chanel Patch
Hi Patch. I think the Loctite was not used originally. In speaking to the machinist at Hood Formula it sounds like they do it differently these days, and he specifically recommended standard blue 242 (as opposed to blue 243 for stainless). As for the Loctite product, I am a big fan and have a lifetime of experience with it. All versions are completely impervious to lubricants if installed correctly. I say this mostly for others reading the post, but use red ONLY if you never intend to remove it again. In this case I chased the threads with a tap and then soaked the gear in brake cleaner to make sure I had a non-contaminated surface to work with. The grub screws were new, but were also soaked in brake cleaner and fully dried. Thanks for watching and keep the observations coming. We love it.
In this scenario Kevin, and if I were reassembling- using those worn parts- I would use Red, not blue. Red is not permanent, it does require an extra step to break the lock- and is why I would not bet weather the blue was omitted on the previous service or failed! Just my opinion, also base on experience.
Yes. Again for those not in the know. To release red loctite apply heat, specifically by torch. This will allow the fastener to be released, but the smaller the fastener the harder it will be. I'll report back if any failure. I'm 5 months in and am sure as hell not going to pull it back apart now.
Good plan. We chose a heavy displacement bluewater specific boat that was designed to take a beating. It's big enough to live on comfortably but small enough to get into most marinas. The systems are robust but need to be maintained. Often, improvements in technology have made some of our stuff obsolete and this has led to the opportunity to upgrade to a more modern version. But the furler we have is still being made and is one of the best on the market (I have discovered). It needs to not have all the lubricants drain out and to receive proper servicing when needed, but is otherwise incredibly reliable. Thanks so much for watching.
Have the existing motor rebuilt. There are companies online that specialize in electric motor rebuild. Absent that, ask your local car parts store for a contact person who rebuilds starter motors. It's mostly a matter of replacing the brushes. But the main thing is the mounting plate (drive end of the motor). This aluminum plate is/was fabricated by Hood Formula to fit the furler (and the motor body), and since Hood is no longer in business, these are impossible to replace.
Well done . Any idea what that would have cost , if you had hired it out ? I don't sail (yet) , and I'm not educated in the things you did , but I actually enjoyed watching/learning Thanks Bob from Calgary
Hi Bob. As it was, the machining and coatings cost about £1,500 and the motor and seals about £550, so a little over £2,000. This is about $2,600, which was a big hit. However, bigger boats get you bigger bills and this is a prime example of how that happens. But that said, it's an investment in the core machinery and it allows us to sail in heavy weather safely, so we're glad we did the work. In comparison to the $16,000 for the sails (which was budgeted at the time we purchased the boat), it was quite the deal.
After seeing the furler failure and boom to mast connections wear you've experienced, I went back to your earlier videos to determine the model year of your boat, a 2012 Dufour 425, right? I was expecting something much, much older than a 2012 model year to be experiencing these type of parts failure. Is this type of wear and tear in the furling system and boom to mast connections considered normal and usual for inmast furling systems, or is it a just an internal issue with the Dufour mast manufacturer?
The Dufour 425 was a boat we chartered a few years back (nice fast and fun coastal cruiser) but Talisman is a more bluewater capable 1994 Oyster 485. She is hull #8 and I have to say that almost all the problems with the furler and gooseneck are attributable to lack of proper maintenance over the years. Formula still makes a (very) slightly updated version of this furler and in comparison to what else is out there these are still the top dogs. We set off from Gibraltar just after Christmas and are now on the eastern coast of Sardinia. We've really put the unit to the test over the 5 months since and are amazed by how well it works. Being able to reef at the touch of a finger in heavy weather is really the main selling feature and that feature alone is hard to overstate.
Thanks for the reply. I'm just gathering information at the moment, but the degree of parts failure you experienced in this video is much more acceptable from a 1994 model, anything, than from a 2012. Best wishes godspeed.
@@SailingTalisman Thank you I appreciate that I looked at a 48.5 in San Francisco today and I was studying all your videos to make sure I looked at everything
@@randystevens570 Good to hear. I was just remarking to Wendy that I've never had any buyer's remorse when it came to Talisman. She's a complex piece of equipment, but well thought out and built with top end kit. If you want to discuss further, my email is in the "about" tab on the Sailing Yacht Talisman main landing page on TH-cam.
You mentioned a machinist had done some work. A machinist could have pressed out your bearing race and pressed in a new one. A machinist could have found off-the-shelf gears or gears which he could have modified to match the old gears. A machinist could have reproduced the gears in the drive train from a block of steel. If you have a piece of equipment you are betting your life on and you may be hundreds of miles from the nearest help it pays to have the job done professionally.
Hi Daryl. You're taking a first world view of it. When you're running along the coasts of Portugal and Spain, the machinists are good at a few things but absolutely lost with others. They cobble together fishing boat systems, and are pretty good at shade tree mechanic stuff. I am almost certain that had I sent the entire thing over to La Linea, Spain, the first major problem would have been that they would not have been able to read the directions from Hood Formula. Secondly, there's no way they would have spent the time figuring out or calling back to the factory to find out which way two of the two aluminum collars went on. There was no notation of orientation in the documentation. Finally, I really enjoy this stuff. It's an intellectual challenge that provides a reward for really getting down in the weeds. I like to work toward being fully self sufficient, and even though that can never happen we do the best we can. The dude from Sailing Bora Bora has some similar experiences with Spanish machine shops.
Great job Kevin, not only did you teach us about how your furler works but gave us great life lessons in patience. Your explanations were spot on to why and wherefores you were doing each step of the reassembly and which parts you chose to replace. Thank you so much for sharing with us out here in youtube land. Good luck in your further adventures on the big blue.
Thanks Obit. I've learned so much myself from watching other do these types of things and in the end it's the small little things that make the projects successful ( or failures as the case may be).
Yep, understood all that. Crew clearly needs a bit of appreciation. Excellent work as always. Thanks. Fair winds to you both.
Thanks Wynn!
Thanks Kev I much appreciate the extreme level of detail contained in your vlogs. To be constantly be considering camera angles, as well as tackling the task in hand shows great tenacity - regards from EF
Thanks EF!
I agree with EF, outstanding video work and your attention to detail. I just found your channel and have been going through all your clips. You have a BEAUTIFUL yacht and a gorgeous First Mate. Sorry about Doc. I had a German Sheppard that was smarter than most people I know and when I lost her to cancer, at the young age of 15, it just tore our hearts out. They are just like your children. I'm retired and looking for a steel 50' catch to purchase. Fair winds and stay safe. P.S. Don't listen to these arm chair sailors, you guys are doing a GREAT JOB !
Kevin, it took me a long time to warm up to your style of narration but you certainly know wtf you’re doing, both from a sailing and maintenance point of view. I enjoy your videos quite a bit now and look forward to the next one. Keep up the great work.
Hi Phil. Yeah, it takes me a while to warm up to my narration sometimes too. I kind of wish I'd taken more public speaking courses in college. In the end though, we're just a couple who are out there doing the cruising thing and it seems a lot of people are interesting in watching it. We do the best we can and probably satisfy 85-90% of the viewers, which is good enough for me.
You really do a great job detailing every part. Thanks
We appreciate you having us. The furler was hard work but it's been working reliably and impressively since.
Greatly done.
Patience is a virtue. Watching your video for the crossing from Cadiz to Gibraltar was not tense for me. Most of my sailing years were done between Puerto Rico and the Islands in the Southern Caribbean in times where weather prediction services were not available and GPS was not in use. Also, it was upwind one way and downwind on the return most of the time with either 20 up wind speeds or just 0. What kept me biting my nails were episodes 47 and 48 as you performed your excellent work on your electric furler. It was like watching brain surgery. The good thing about them was that I learn that I have future prediction skills. The second that you started using the lock pliers to remove that screw next to the edge of the boat, I knew that the pliers were going overboard. What I love about your videos is that they are more than just watching hundreds of boring night watch hours and they are down to earth examples of what cruising is.
Hi HC. I am singularly unable to talk and think at the same time. If I've got the camera running I will always miss the obvious, and watching that clip I knew I should have seen the priers getting ready to go overboard. It wasn't even the first screw. Those pliers had slipped off every one of the previous screws at one point or another. As for the furler, I didn't include the two times that I had the whole thing ssembled only to have to take it apart again. But we've got probably 3,000nm on the boat since then and that furler runs like clockwork. We love it and only wish that we had something similar for the headsail. Finally, your last comment is the key. It's the actual concept of our channel, which is to show as much of the unvarnished truth of full time cruising as we can capture. Thanks so much for being with us.
bomber work Kevin! I have an in mast furler now too, probably be asking for pointers next spring lol!
Feel free John. Did you end up with the Catalina 27? I doubt your furler is by Hood Formula, but if it is the company is no longer in business. I have the files (as does Eddie S at Oyster) and I can send them if you need. Contact me off list if this becomes something. I wanted to stop by the shop Monday but knew that you take Mondays off. We were heading out Tuesday morning so was my last visit to the valley. Hope Morgan and Kennedy are doing well. All the best! KK & W
I am sold on never having in mast furling. Thank you for sharing the hazards and headache easy sailing can cause. Hoisting and reefing seem quite simple compared to what you went through. Can't imagine how bad things could get in heavy seas with a full main stuck.
Hi Bruce. To each their own, but I have to say that slab reefing is no easy alternative. The reefing lines jam constantly and the bigger the sails and wind, the more difficult it becomes. Once you get above 50' you almost never see slab reefing because the power becomes too great. Cruising couples just can't cope with it and the wife becomes scared of the sail power. She knows that neither of them can do it alone. When a good in-mast system is maintained in good condition it is a thing of beauty. Yesterday we had a big 5 hour run down the west coast of Corfu in Greece to the harbor at Lakka, south of Corfu. Winds increased dramatically as the day wore on, but didn't affect our sailing as we were running off the wind. However, upon arrival we furled the headsail (as it was being shadowed by the main under a new heading), and then spun the boat 180 degrees and wound the main in with a flip of the toggle switch in about 10 seconds. The wind was easily blowing 25 knots and the waves were pretty significant. I was very glad to have the system we have.
I fully understand your logic and have extreme respect for your technical knowledge, sadly I do not have your mechanical abilities which makes owning a large boat beyond my reach. As a solo sailor 40 feet is pushing the envelope. Hoping to find a Sirius 35DS one of these days. Love your in depth mechanical insight and the entire buying process, not many folks share the real technical side of cruising which is by far the biggest safety factor on the open ocean. You're a lucky man, beautiful wife and a beautiful boat! Keep up the great work!
Thanks for the kind words. Soloing a big boat would be a scary proposition. I see it done as we're sailing around, but always end up wondering how often things don't go as planned. The guy who put Talisman back together after 7 years on the hard (who is a transfer skipper) told me once that in the beginning he thought the life would be about sailing but soon learned that it was really about keeping diesel engines running. Engines and everything else it turns out.
I am a marine engineer and mechanical fitter, have a suggestion the next time you have a similar situation. The problem initially was a loose grub screw that did the damage. Rather than trusting loctite to solve problems, make sure the keyway and key are not loose, burs cleaned then use a second grub screw as a locking screw if there is enough thread available. The bevel gear should be ok to use as the rotation is slow and maybe some gearbox oil with a lower viscosity. Thanks for sharing your travels.
Hi Peter. Thanks for your help. I think the keyway took too much material away to put one grub screw on top of another. But as I told another commenter (and I omitted a few steps in the video), I chased the threads with the appropriate tap, then soaked the gear and new grub screws in brake cleaner to make sure there were no contaminants present before putting it all together. This is always half the battle. I honestly feel that mechanically this furler is pretty low power in comparison to a car transmission or ATV differential. I'll keep an eye on the fluids, and especially if I see any leaking in the future I'll probably switch to 90 weight gear oil. However, I lean toward using what the manufacturer recommends if no obvious reason to do otherwise. I have to say that I respect and desire the kind of information that you and others provide. Many times it's the small stuff that makes for a successful repair.
No worries. Any time
Wow...super techy but very interesting!
Followed every second! (I'm an old sailor and Harley guy)!
Cheers
Thanks Andre. We're more than a year following the furler rebuild and it's still going strong. Great piece of kit.
Learned a few things watching that 😊 thanks for posting it ❤️
Several owners of these furlers have written to ask questions. They're some of the best out there as long as they get maintained.
Great job Kevin and Wendy!
The plastic could be acetal. Great job you're doing here. I've never tried Tefgel, usually I use Duralac on these kind of mixed metal assemblies. Don't know if it's better or worse, but it seems to work ok.
HI Guys. Good to see you putting this problem to bed and getting ready for your next adventure. A boat is a hole in the water into which you pour money (and effort). Something always needs attention. TH-cam is the biggest source of inspiration for wannabe cruisers. Its good you show the cruising life with all its frustrations - And you have yet to touch on the over zealous officials you always encounter along the way. You deserve the TH-cam honour spotted on the opening titles.
Heading back out to Greece in the morning with 5 kilos of clothes and 25 kilos of spare parts! Plus fingers crossed that nothing bad has happened in the six months since we stepped aboard.
Hi Alenka. I sent 5 or 6 huge boxes filled with clothes, parts, tools, kitchen/galley stuff, and small crap we could have bought in the UK out to Scotland when we moved aboard. Yes, the boats are expensive but nobody ever promised they'd be cheap. When compared to a house, there are similarities in cost. You buy less in the way of bulky items like furniture and large electronics, but the systems are more complex and seem to break a lot more often (saltwater environment). As for the channel, we try to put the unvarnished cruising life front and center. There are a lot of fun aspects, but a lot of kicks to the groin too. We have luckily not come across many over zealous officials yet, but I'm sure we'll find them eventually.
7:20 These bevel gears are probably standard lego parts? Once you figure out the module and count the teeth you should be able to find off the shelve gears. At least "machinable" parts that can be bored to match your shaft etc. I'd go that route to finde spares for a later replacement. Thanks for sharing the video. Happy sailing!
Good advice. I think the furler is way overbuilt and the gears are something you'd see in an ATV or such like. We've got about 5 months on the furler since the rebuild (we're pretty far behind in our video editing) and the thing is powerful and smooth. I think we're good on the gears. When things fail next, it will be the seals I'm pretty sure. But with new, modern German sourced seals I think we have a number of years before that happens.
Awesome, thanks so much!
No worries.
What do you think of the in-mast furling? I am planning on purchasing a Valiant 42 in the next couple of years, so starting with trying to do as much research on them as possible, creating a "must have" and "avoid" list. Any advice you can give me as far as what to look out for stuff you wish you knew before buying would be much appreciated. Love the videos!
@@anthonyfrattalone9937 Hi Anthony. The Valients are good offshore boats and you probably won’t get yourself in trouble. As for furling, slab reefing is better performance (since you have horizontal battens for sail shape). But reefing is a bigger job, and some boats (like Swan) make you go to the mast to release the main halyard. You also typically have set reefing points, generally two for smaller boats and three for larger, although owners can always have a sail loft add a third. By comparison, in-mast reefing is infinite, and at least with our Hood electric furler, we can reef even under moderate load, without having to come up into the wind. All lines tend to run to the cockpit, and this helps keep everyone safe. Leaving the cockpit, especially at night, means clipping yourself to a jackline or other attachment point, as well as supervision by a second person. Also note that most modern slab reef designs do lead the lines aft, so this isn’t necessarily an either/or thing. As for in-mast, there are a lot of people who have had problems with this style of furling, as have we as documented on our channel, but on balance I would opt for it again as no furling system is failproof. I think the main issue is usually jamming of the sail inside the mast. This happens if you don’t provide adequate outhaul tension during deployment, or if you start rotating the sail in and out trying un-jam a stuck sail. Also, boom height at the clew is critical. A boom with too much or two little angle will cause the sail to get diagonal wrinkles in it as it furls, and this causes the sail to get multiple extra layers in the fabric. Thus, the furled sail is now larger in diameter, and too big to fit in the mast cavity. I think you learn the system you own (and how to use it reliably) with time.
@@SailingTalisman thanks so much for the detailed reply. I understand it better now. You should really make more educational sailing videos - perhaps on sail trim, route planning, or other complicated topics since you are very good at explaining things. Despite their being a lot of sailing content on the internet, there are not many sources that do a good job explaining difficult concepts in easy-to-understand ways like. you can do. Perhaps you have more educational content hidden in your videos - in that case, it would be nice to compile them in a playlist that cuts out all the other stuff. Just some ideas. Love the channel. Thanks again!
@ I’ll see what I can do. 2024/25 season is just beginning in Antigua, so it’s time to start filming. New episodes starting in a couple of weeks.
@@SailingTalisman or perhaps when you do have educational parts in your videos, put the topic and time stamp in the video description so those of us with limited time but want to learn can more easily find them. have a great season! I'll be couch sailing here in MN but at least I have a couple charters booked and the "retirement "countdown timer is nearing its end! I also signed up for Kretschmer's bluewater course for next year as it was booked this year already, partly due to your content. cheers!
Looks/sounds like success!! Thanks for sharing. 😊⛵⛵⛵⛵⛵⛵⛵⛵⛵⛵😊👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Indeed. Thanks Bill.
Thrust washers whatever they are? You previously said you don’t throw anything away 👏
We don't, usually. The little sucker looked like it would make a nice washer and I set it aside not realizing how tightly machined it was. Then when the new one didn't fit I went into a frenzy trying to find it, which I eventually did.
Kevin. Looks like I am going to have to complete the same job as you have here. Where did you get your parts? Thanks !
Hi Gary. Hood Formula is no longer in business as far as I can tell. They got into making (huge) wind turbine blades and either the business shifted there or the whole thing blew up. But luckily the parts are off the shelf auto parts that are available locally for the most part. If you can contact me off list (my email is available in the "About" tab of our TH-cam channel) I will get you all the pics and instructions that Hood Formula sent me.
Hi Kevin.Good morning. I have a boat fitted with the same mainsail furler as you. Formula Hood) you did a great job on yours and seems to know a lot of things. My husband pass away and i didn’t know any thing about maintenance of my furler. I am in Malaysia and the rigger said me it will be great to change all the the oring. my furler was still ok. he has completely dismantled it and does not know how to put it back together! please help us get the plans and all the information needed to put it back together. Thanks a lot. Beatrix.
Hi Beatrix. Yes, I have all the Hood Formula docs. On the TH-cam landing page, go to the “About” tab. My email is there. Send me an email and I’ll get them to you, with other important advice. Main thing, don’t throw any parts away!
Hi Kevin. Thanks a lot for your Quick answer. Your mail adresse seems to be missing ?
@@SailingTalismanthanks a lot. I just send you a mail. Hope to read you soon , i Hope tomorow get the plans. I am so confuse with my rigger whoo can't reassemble the furler. Again thanks.
@@maulayarlagi Okay, sent. Let me know how things work out.
Nice job! What more can we say? properly done Kevin ! Ant & Cid xx
Great video. Just one question, I agree, doing it yourself is important for many reasons but with the Christmas break and the many complexities of the job/parts and additional cost while you're working on that equipment, any chance it would've been cheaper to ship it off to be rebuilt? Thanks for allowing us to tag along. Boat looks great. Fair winds!
Hi Clay. Good question. In retrospect, this was a project that grew in size as we went along. At first I thought I'd just be buying the motor, but the advice given was to do the seals and bearings too. On paper, this seemed easy enough. But as we got into it, I decided to recoat the parts, and then to recoat some additional parts too, and then to have a bunch of machine work done. I think Hood Formula could have rebuilt the furler itself, but likely would have balked at coatings. They almost certainly could have added the Delrin bushings, but I suspect pricing would have been similar in the end. Shipping would have been a big risk. The all-in pricing could have gone either way I suppose. Thanks for watching.
Oh, and doing the major labor of disassembly and assembly saved a ton of money I'm sure. Even a pro at the factory would not have done the job in less than a 3rd of the time I spent. It was just a bear of a job.
So it looks like you didn't get the powder coating? It has to be baked for about 30 minutes at 400°.
Also if the plastic they used is grey, it's probably delrin.
Hi Phillip. Powder coating was an option, but the guys at James Molinary in Gib were highly recommending the Jotan Jotacoat product, which was a two part primer/paint coating that was a bit cheaper and by their claims incredibly durable. It's been a couple of years now and the color is still bright and shiny with no chips or blistering, so we're happy. As for the present, our mast is off in Antigua and the painter just sent pics of it (along with boom, vang, and whisker pole) stripped to the bare metal. They'll be applying/spraying Awlgrip product as a replacement. The engineering plastic they cut the sheaves from was black in color, as is the new set I received recently for the masthead. It's probably Delrin or a generic version of Delrin. The old plastic was undoubtedly the best of what was available at the time, but became chalky and prone to elongation of the holes under repeated and sustained loads.
@@SailingTalisman that's great. I recently read paints don't like to stick to aluminum. But there's so many new products coming out today.
I researched cement floor coatings and some much better products out now. Most never heard of.
@@philzail2532 Aluminum is tricky because it forms its own barrier to corrosion. If you clean aluminum down to the bare metal (sanding/grinding/etc.) you have about two hours (or less) to coat the aluminum. After that the coatings are unlikely to adhere well. So most failed aluminum paint jobs are really failed prep jobs. Also, if you're painting galvanized metals you need to clean with vinegar (light acid) first.
@@SailingTalisman nice job, came out well. I'm a retired machinist by the way.
Hi Kevin, great job. As I do have a similar furling system from Hood, i wanted to ask you if you can send me a copy of the manual you used. I‘m looding gearbox oul on the side where I can attach the manual crank for manualy in or outfurling the main. Would be a great help.
Hi Hans. Sorry I missed this. Do you still need the manuals? If so, get my email off the "about" page in the Sailing Yacht Talisman home page and send me a request.
Well done Kev. Whats with the Saltire below the Gibraltar courtesy flag?
It's a St Andrews flag from Scotland. The Scots treated us so well in the early days that we felt it would be nice to fly their flag as a secondary courtesy flag, at least for a while.
Hi Kev ,Ive been following your adventure since Troon. Im from Scotland myself ,nice to know you were treated well. My boat is in the next marina to you in Alcaidesa over the border.
Hi James. Great to hear you're in Alcaidesa. We're presently in Sardinia (the furler has been working great-many miles on it now), and will be passing back through Gib/La Linea either late this summer or late the following summer depending on our cruising decisions. We'd love to see you when we do.
Hi Kev, Glad to know the main furling motor is working . I dont live far from La Linea so more than likely I should be here when you return. Im looking forward more of your adventures on youtube & wish you & Wendy a safe voyage & happy sailing.
Just out of interest who gave you access to their workshop? Seems like it was rather critical, when it was fixed it looked great though :-)! Kind of thinking that in mast furling might be more trouble than it's worth :-)! Great job and well done. Well done to the machinists too :-)!
I asked around Gibraltar and had gotten a lead at James Molinary Chandlery. To call it a chandlery was a bit of a stretch as what they really do is refit and resupply superyachts. Anyway, the guys there took me under their wing and agreed to do the paint work. I then asked if they had a place where I could assemble the furler. They probably didn't know how involved the job was, but the little workshop room I was in was tucked into an unused walk-in freezer, and pretty out of the way. Those guys were rock stars. As to your comment about in-mast furling being more trouble than it's worth, we've put probably 10,000nm on the boat since the repair and the furler is still going strong with no failures at all. It's a great system, but needs to be maintained as you go.
I'm late coming to this video. but I know you you went with a rebuild on this most likely for the cost savings, but I really like to ask . .. could you ever just replace the whole for Furler? or was it no longer able to be ordered. ? and if you could have just ordered the whole new Furler. ? do you have any idea what it would have cost ?
Good questions. Formula would likely have had to completely build one from scratch as the mast sections they use now are different and the unit fits like a glove around the aluminum. In all honesty, the major parts were in perfect condition. All that was needed was needed was a new motor, motor shaft, and seals. The bearings, while in depleted shape, would have continued to work I imagine. But of course changing those out just made things run smoother in the end. We've used the furler successfully since January and have had no problems.
Sailing Yacht Talisman .... you answer my question though ,,. You can no longer buy replacement part and swap it out... with the mass section being different the setup on the boat is obsolete... you have to rebuild , or find anther used part available somewhere... my question wasn't really concerning whether that you did a great job , or if it would worked . I'm sure it will , and you did do a great job .. I was just more curious as to whether it was still available as a purchasable product..
.thanks for. Replying.
Yes, I see. No, the exact part is not being made any more. This is typical for boats in general. You will find that the suppliers of marine hardware change from one design to a better one and pretty much ignore the failures of the past. The older the boat, the more of a problem this becomes. Luckily, much of it is pretty simple in what is being done, so fixes can be had. In our case, the main furler casting, shafts, gears, foil, and swivel are all pretty indestructible. The bearings and seals are off the shelf automotive parts and are thus easily obtained. Even the motor is a standard industrial part that is commonly used in other applications. This is where buying a boat from a company that is still in business really pays off. They can almost always point you to the original suppliers, and from there you can get replacement parts.
I think 1 mistake was to follow what has already proved wrong.
The thread lock there, soaking in hydraulic fluid- Red not blue.
Something else you might conciser as tolerances have worn away, increase viscosity which would reduce plate vibration.
I enjoy the Chanel
Patch
Hi Patch. I think the Loctite was not used originally. In speaking to the machinist at Hood Formula it sounds like they do it differently these days, and he specifically recommended standard blue 242 (as opposed to blue 243 for stainless). As for the Loctite product, I am a big fan and have a lifetime of experience with it. All versions are completely impervious to lubricants if installed correctly. I say this mostly for others reading the post, but use red ONLY if you never intend to remove it again. In this case I chased the threads with a tap and then soaked the gear in brake cleaner to make sure I had a non-contaminated surface to work with. The grub screws were new, but were also soaked in brake cleaner and fully dried. Thanks for watching and keep the observations coming. We love it.
In this scenario Kevin, and if I were reassembling- using those worn parts- I would use Red, not blue.
Red is not permanent, it does require an extra step to break the lock- and is why I would not bet weather the blue was omitted on the previous service or failed!
Just my opinion, also base on experience.
Yes. Again for those not in the know. To release red loctite apply heat, specifically by torch. This will allow the fastener to be released, but the smaller the fastener the harder it will be. I'll report back if any failure. I'm 5 months in and am sure as hell not going to pull it back apart now.
I see it as the Toyota accelerator problem;)
Perhaps a time to exceed MFG recommendations..
Be safe out there
Having sailed my whole life mostly in the North Atlantic us old timers own the SMALLEST SIMPLEST boats we can afford.
Good plan. We chose a heavy displacement bluewater specific boat that was designed to take a beating. It's big enough to live on comfortably but small enough to get into most marinas. The systems are robust but need to be maintained. Often, improvements in technology have made some of our stuff obsolete and this has led to the opportunity to upgrade to a more modern version. But the furler we have is still being made and is one of the best on the market (I have discovered). It needs to not have all the lubricants drain out and to receive proper servicing when needed, but is otherwise incredibly reliable. Thanks so much for watching.
Hallo please what engine to buy as replacement? cant find any. Many thanks.
Have the existing motor rebuilt. There are companies online that specialize in electric motor rebuild. Absent that, ask your local car parts store for a contact person who rebuilds starter motors. It's mostly a matter of replacing the brushes. But the main thing is the mounting plate (drive end of the motor). This aluminum plate is/was fabricated by Hood Formula to fit the furler (and the motor body), and since Hood is no longer in business, these are impossible to replace.
Well done . Any idea what that would have cost , if you had hired it out ?
I don't sail (yet) , and I'm not educated in the things you did , but I actually enjoyed watching/learning
Thanks
Bob from Calgary
Hi Bob. As it was, the machining and coatings cost about £1,500 and the motor and seals about £550, so a little over £2,000. This is about $2,600, which was a big hit. However, bigger boats get you bigger bills and this is a prime example of how that happens. But that said, it's an investment in the core machinery and it allows us to sail in heavy weather safely, so we're glad we did the work. In comparison to the $16,000 for the sails (which was budgeted at the time we purchased the boat), it was quite the deal.
Thanks for the reply
is this the same Talisman from Survivorman by any chance?
Hi Rob. Not sure what you're asking, but think not. Thanks for watching.
After seeing the furler failure and boom to mast connections wear you've experienced, I went back to your earlier videos to determine the model year of your boat, a 2012 Dufour 425, right? I was expecting something much, much older than a 2012 model year to be experiencing these type of parts failure. Is this type of wear and tear in the furling system and boom to mast connections considered normal and usual for inmast furling systems, or is it a just an internal issue with the Dufour mast manufacturer?
The Dufour 425 was a boat we chartered a few years back (nice fast and fun coastal cruiser) but Talisman is a more bluewater capable 1994 Oyster 485. She is hull #8 and I have to say that almost all the problems with the furler and gooseneck are attributable to lack of proper maintenance over the years. Formula still makes a (very) slightly updated version of this furler and in comparison to what else is out there these are still the top dogs. We set off from Gibraltar just after Christmas and are now on the eastern coast of Sardinia. We've really put the unit to the test over the 5 months since and are amazed by how well it works. Being able to reef at the touch of a finger in heavy weather is really the main selling feature and that feature alone is hard to overstate.
Thanks for the reply. I'm just gathering information at the moment, but the degree of parts failure you experienced in this video is much more acceptable from a 1994 model, anything, than from a 2012. Best wishes godspeed.
I watch most of your videos but that video was pretty choppy and pretty hard to watch and I was really interested in how it is done
Sorry about that. If there's anything you need to know, I'm happy to help.
@@SailingTalisman Thank you I appreciate that I looked at a 48.5 in San Francisco today and I was studying all your videos to make sure I looked at everything
@@randystevens570 Good to hear. I was just remarking to Wendy that I've never had any buyer's remorse when it came to Talisman. She's a complex piece of equipment, but well thought out and built with top end kit. If you want to discuss further, my email is in the "about" tab on the Sailing Yacht Talisman main landing page on TH-cam.
Where is your dog?
You mentioned a machinist had done some work. A machinist could have pressed out your bearing race and pressed in a new one. A machinist could have found off-the-shelf gears or gears which he could have modified to match the old gears. A machinist could have reproduced the gears in the drive train from a block of steel. If you have a piece of equipment you are betting your life on and you may be hundreds of miles from the nearest help it pays to have the job done professionally.
Hi Daryl. You're taking a first world view of it. When you're running along the coasts of Portugal and Spain, the machinists are good at a few things but absolutely lost with others. They cobble together fishing boat systems, and are pretty good at shade tree mechanic stuff. I am almost certain that had I sent the entire thing over to La Linea, Spain, the first major problem would have been that they would not have been able to read the directions from Hood Formula. Secondly, there's no way they would have spent the time figuring out or calling back to the factory to find out which way two of the two aluminum collars went on. There was no notation of orientation in the documentation. Finally, I really enjoy this stuff. It's an intellectual challenge that provides a reward for really getting down in the weeds. I like to work toward being fully self sufficient, and even though that can never happen we do the best we can. The dude from Sailing Bora Bora has some similar experiences with Spanish machine shops.
I have been seeing your videos, but I CAN´T STAND YOUR STUTTERING. 🤬🤬🤬
Sorry about that. I've been getting better but I'm not a pro at public speaking. We do the best we can. Hopefully you can look past it.
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