I have no earthly idea which is which. I mean, I can tell the difference between A and B. One of them sounds like it has a filter on it compared to the other. But as to which one is the authentic version? No idea.
It is very cool that a SID replacement exists of this quality. I’m definitely going to check it out. As you say, they’re not making them anymore. MOS has been gone for a long time now.
A is the original, because he said so and also he wouldn’t pull it, record, then swap it, record, then swap it again to give away the 8580. Confused? The 8580 has a crisp sound and the ARMSID sounds more like the 6581 with whatever filter is built into it.
I second Buford's suggestion. The Turbo Outrun intro on my Australian C64C 8580 always sounded muffled. Jeroen's voice sample was much clearer through a 6581.
I've made a detailed comparison article some time ago where I compare selected songs that I consider critical. Recorded directly from the 6581, 8580 and ARMSID in both modes. I can't put the link here, so please pm me. However, it's been compared with ARMSID firmware version 2.8, which seems to be outdated now.
It seems to me that there's a huge difference in their filters. I can hear a resonance change every time the chip flips. Especially notable on the snare.
Firmware my ARM2SID was initially flashed with was too crisp in a certain scenario so I could easily tell it apart from a large number of MOS SIDs ... that has been patched since almost a year tho.
I don't know which chip is real or fake, but the sound is much fuller on A. Let me know what chip A was at the end and I will be getting that for my Ultimate64!
@@rootlabs I have plans to review the Ultimate64 but the reality is that not everyone can afford one, and most people may just simply want to replace their dying/dead SID, so better or not it just may be out of the reach of some folk. I am looking forward to reviewing the U64 though, not going to lie :) :)
B almost sounds like it's running through Dolby noise reduction. Less high frequency, a little lower volume, a bit of a 'muddy' sound. That SID could have a different filter cutoff setting.
SID A I'd say is the ARMSID, but the difference is so small it is barely audible by someone that is not an expert. This is great to know, having a replacement that is so easy to manage is great. Glad got this recommended
Great job on the presentation of the ARMSID along with a little spattering of SID history. Great to know that if ever my SID goes west there's a good replacement that can handle the analogue side of things too ;)
SID A hits my sweet spot. I've heard these songs so many times and that sound, crashy, a bit sharp and harsh even at times, really takes me back. SID B sounds muffled, generated. It comes close, but it lacks the sharp edges. Like it's been filtered. So my vote goes to SID A definitely. And if that is the ARMSID, I'm buying one on the 13th!
I have an ARMsid because I had a machine with a bad SID and I didn't want to buy another one that could just go bad. I particularly like the ARMsid because if you prefer one variant over the other, you can change which variant you emulate through the settings app. I have a breadbin with a real 6581 and a longboard 64C which is where the ARMsid is. I really wanted my 64c to have the 8580 sound, but on a longboard I obviously can't do that with a real one, so the ARMsid is great because it allows me to have the sound I want with the motherboard that I have.
Yep - that's a good solid argument for flexibility over being a stalwart over which version is best. If you can enjoy both sounds, great - if not, just enjoy the one you have :). It's all amazing really!
You did sth wrong when recording, there's a "reverb" on both a and b on the Commando tune. For Crazy Comets, I'd say b is the real SID as I think I heard timing bugs.
@@TheRetroShack I'd even say the emulation isn't too bad if they thought of the SID-bug. If you ever do a SID-comparison again, please also use a tune not from the Stone age of SID-compositions. I suggest Jeroen Tel's masterpieces which do a lot with filtering.
I think that the ARMSID is the best replacement for the SID available and at some point I need to get one for my 83 Breadbin in which still works apart from not having any sound. Pity the competition prize isn't the original SID. I think SID B is the original.
I'm with you. The ARMSID runs at a lower voltage, has modern updates, and sounds amazing and can be either chip! I ordered one to compare with our SwinSID (came with our C64C) and 8580 we have coming.
As a sound engineer I clearly hear the difference. A is more clear and defined, B is little muffed and less presence. However, I can't say which one is real. I gonna guess - B is real, A is ARM. Cheers
Given a choice of a C64 with no sound output (due to dead SID) or any modern replacement, I'll take the latter. It's great to have options now that the real chips are scarce. I can't wait to see a modern VIC-II drop-in (hopefully with enhancements). No idea which is real, A or B even though I have the same revision SID in my C64.
Playing Gridrunner & Impossible Mission there are some sounds that I noticed a difference between the ArmSID and the 6581,8580,Nano SwinSID, UltiSID and VICE but so long as things work it is fine with me.
SID A sounds right to me. SID B has more bass, mumbled sound and something feels wrong with it. I don't need an original SID though. Give it to someone else.
It's not a condition for entry. I've made that clear in the pinned comment below the video and also in the description, which I've also updated to include Competition Rules and Privacy Statements, along with links to the Community Guidelines and Terms of Service. Apologies for any confusion - this is the first time running a competition on the channel. Bit of a minefield, so thanks for pointing this out!
SID B - I'd be interested to know how they were recorded as both sound like they have been recorded in a bathroom, a little bit too much reverb/echo . Did you apply any post FX? I noticed it in the early 'demo' but thought it was a clever part of the sid tune. Anyway, I thought sid B was more accurate to my memory of the tunes. (even though my memory is of 6581 and not 8580)
Lol - nope, not in a bathroom :) All audio (and video) was taken straight from the C64>RGB OUT>SCART>HDMI>OBS Studio, no filtering or FX added at all :)
"B" is the original, I would say. However, I haven't been listening to the original sound of SID as I was used to from my old CRT TV (mixed with some video amplifier leakage artifacts) since 1992. But I would prefer some different music style for the second example - like Wizball instead of Crazy Comets.
Great Video! I just learned of your channel today. I just made a video changing out my broken C64C Sid chip with the Armsid today. I was very impressed with the Armsid. I would of guessed that A was Armsid. I was wrong but it was so close. Look forward to your future videos!
SID B, SID A sounds exactly like my early 80's Breadbin, and C64C's with the 8580 have always sounded muddier, so SID B is the original, SID A sounds awesome though!
...I think SID B is the authentic one, because it has a little bit of excess filtering, and somebody developing a chip for retro audiophiles would make the default filtering as nonexistent as possible. So... Which other chips can you upgrade? I'd love to see something like a swap from DRAM to SRAM and some performance comparisons... Particularly with C64 demos.
Sorry, you were incorrect this time round - think of it as coming in second :) Also, you can replace the PLA chip and some clever so-and-so is working on a replacement VIC-II :)
SID A (guess but there is a subtle difference). Without listening to Donkey Kong and having an 8-bit dance party Adrian Black style it's difficult to be certain 😏🤷♂️
There is a SID A (the ARMSID) error in the background at (9:02) in the lower voice on the short (music) bit. I can not explain it clearly but it is exactly at 9:02. Software update needed?:)
I think it's SID B, but only guessing because it seems the filters are more crude on B. Otherwise, both, despite the echo, sounds like perfectly fine SID chips to me.
SID B is the authentic one. the two clearly sound different, however - they are staggeringly close! I guess I wont bother hunting down a SID for my one C64 with a dead SID! ARMSID, here I come!
I'm late to the game, so obviously a winner has already been selected and answer revealed somewhere. But since I am not as yet privy to that information, I'm going to guess that "A" is the ArmSID and "B" is the 8580. On the basis that the ArmSID has been reported elsewhere to be "too good" and sounds more like the 8580 than the 6581, for those purists of us who detested the short boards and their 8580's, and preferred the 6581AR as the pinnacle of SID development both sound too "clean".
I don't have a C64 so have no idea which is the real and which is the replacement, but I just want to say how awesome it is that people are still making replacement parts and upgrades for these much loved computers :)
Bit late to the party but I'm a huge SID geek, so here's my 2c: I have been playing with the ARMSID for a couple of months now and I agree that it sounds so close to the 8580 that I'd fail the blindfold test 9 times out of 10. On the other hand, when it comes to the more unpredictable 6510, I think I can mostly tell the difference on those tracks that utilize funky filter distortions and other quirks.
@@TheRetroShack I just ordered two. Hopefully this doesn't end up frying the SIDstation itself somehow - those things are really hard to replace now! My hope is that it gives a genuine SID sound but with a bit less background noise, and still works with some of the weirder chip-pushing stuff that the SIDstation does. I'd expect some things to not be the same of course (in particular the SIDstation has an alternate envelope generator mode that causes a real SID to express some nondeterministic behavior) but this is all for the sake of experimenting. :)
SID A is the original SID. You can tell SID B is the ARMSID because the 'snare' drum on Crazy Comets sounds different, i.e. the filter is cutting the high frequencies. I've noticed it on a few tunes since the v2.11 firmware update, it used to sound spot on. I'm not complaining though as this update fixed a major issue with playing back 8-bit samples. ARMSID is superb otherwise.
I can't say which one I think is genuine, but I can say which one I prefer the sound of. B. Definitely B. A sounded hollow and shrill wheras B had far better bass extension and overall warmer tonality.
Yep, you can change the emulation to sound like different SID revisions and also to change some of the parameters to fine tune the sound :) I didn’t do any of that - sounded perfect to me on the stock settings :)
To me they both sound equally great. 😳 That is amazing. So, I ordered the Armsid right away! Thanks! It will be replacing my xSID, which did replace the Swinsid Nano earlier. 😎
These tunes has only minimal use of sid filters. Why was not used some modern tunes, full of sid effects, for ex. frome some scene demo? When i compared output in 1541UII, which emulate SID on FPGA, Commando was also very good - vs 8580 in computer. But any heavy filtered and sophisticated music, from Crest or Oxyron - emulated SID was very bad (sometimes VERY bad). So how ARMSID? Can C64 musician trust it? Or still must buy original overpriced SID?
Wow, I can tell there is a difference between the two but they both sound good, thats an amazing piece of emulation. Chip A sounds clearer than B, which sounds slightly muffled. If I had to guess I would say A is the ArmSID as its new and improved but I really would be guessing.
This is cool. They must've improved the firmware quite a lot because when I heard it originally it was quite good but (to my ears) not that near a real chip. Really I'm stoked to hear that we may finally have a good enough modern replacement, for that most important of chips.. That's amazing news! My guess, although both sound slightly off (intentionally? I'm assuming those are 6581 tunes), is that SID A is the real one, and B is the ARMSID. The bass on chip B feels too deep and it's slightly muddy overall. Don't need a chip though so if I win feel free to give it to someone who needs it. :) Fun video, keep it up mate! This channel is going to grow and grow.. :)
SID B is the original one to me, the slight muffle is how I remember it. The new one sounds almost identical though, I am genuinely impressed. Oh, and you gained a new sub!
I would say SID A but only as a wild ass guess. Interesting video and I await the results. I've actually owned an ARMSID for about 3-4 months but haven't used it in a month or two since I've been away for work.
Wow - just watched the long play of the C64 Fix-It Felix Jr. - didn't even know this version existed!! It's even better than the Megadrive/Genesis version :). Thanks for that!
@@TheRetroShack thanks! And sorry for the shameless plug ;-). It would be nice to check the intro speech, the "I'm gonna wreck it" on the loading bitmap. I once had an armsid and it didn't sound good at all, (but still better than swinsid or ultisid). But probably things have improved in the meantime brokenbytes.itch.io/fix-it-felix-jr
I'd say that B is the original SID chip. There are pretty obvious differences when hearing both like this but both sound very good and had I only heard the Armsid and not have been told beforehand I doubt I would question whether it was a chip from MOS or not. :)
there is definately a difference between them cant tell you what one is what but b sounds a bit smoother and to me better . ill go with A as beeing the original chip . i would have no use for the chip though would love too know what one is what .
In my guess the SID B is the original. To me the A has clearly more high frequency content in it. I’m assuming the modern DAC has more bandwidth available.
For those of you in the UK. Dont forget that you need to import the Chip from the EU - now after Brexit. Best would be to try a local online store to import them in larger quantities and offer them in the UK domestically. That will still be more expensive but you save a lot of those excessive shipping costs caused by the new customs procedures.
I've gone back and forth, but I'm going to guess that SID B is the original. Both have their own pro's and cons in how they sound, but some of the higher frequencies in SID A just don't sound "right" to me. Of course, I may simply have grown up with a different revision SID in my system.
earthly idea which is which. I mean, I can tell the difference between A and B. One of them sounds like it has a filter on it compared to the other. But as to which one is the authentic version? Yes idea!
Would been nice if you played Commando on a proper 6581 ;) 8580 it will sound messed up on either way .. same with crazy comets. and there is a difference in sound on A and B.
Sid B is the original one in both Commando and Crazy Comets. It would be more evident if the compaired Sids were 6581’s - which have more ‘analog warmth’ ( a combination of filters and envelopes). I use a C64 with FPGASid to compose some tracks and I am happy with the results. For gaming, ARM2SID or other replacement chips are all good - unless you are a purist.
Plug and Play? This is not what Plug and Play means. Direct replacement, drop-in. Plug and Play meant IRQ, DMA and Memory address had to be specified and you could only change this by directly swapping jumpers on the hardware.
Am I supposed to guess which sounds slightly different or which letter is which chip? That being said, I'm blindly guessing without any reference between the letters and chips whatsoever, A is Armsid and B is SID. Or Armsid is the crisper sounding one. Or B sounds slightly different to A. I could be right, wrong or both.
This is cool that this is in the Commodore scene. The Atari has a PokeyMax chip that can emulate 4 Pokey's and COVOX with the newest revision is going to add a SID. I hope someday we could see a stereo sid version of this, and maybe add something such as DigiMax. Pretty cool stuff going on with retro computers, and at prices that don't break the bank.
I have no earthly idea which is which. I mean, I can tell the difference between A and B. One of them sounds like it has a filter on it compared to the other. But as to which one is the authentic version? No idea.
All will be revealed on the 13th :) Thanks for watching David - been a fan for many years. Hope things are getting back to normal for you back home!
Now I know why TH-cam recommended me this video, it's because the8bitguy commented :)
one seems slightly softer and has punchier bass...no idea which is which either.
Looking forward to more 8-bit guy videos .. how is the disaster-recovery progressing ?
Man, celebrity appearance from The 8-bit guy!
Looks like all of us win!
Its not a true test of the ARMSID because you didn't have an 8-bit Dance Party.
You don't know what I did off camera! I was head-to-toe dripping in neon and raving like a lunatic! :)
When Adrian hears a proper SID track... if not Donkey Kong :-)
@@TheRetroShack Play Donkey Kong for us!
@@TheRetroShack Play Donkey Kong for us!
It is very cool that a SID replacement exists of this quality. I’m definitely going to check it out. As you say, they’re not making them anymore. MOS has been gone for a long time now.
I love that there are such CLEVER people out there :) !!!
The ArmSid is not made any more??
How it sounds to me: SID A = Dolby OFF, SID B = Dolby ON
Wow! That sums t up really well!
That's a great way of describing it.
All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! :)
yep
I’m going with SID B as the original. SID A sounds a little “too” clean, perhaps with a higher S/N ratio which I think would imply it’s the ArmSID.
Thanks for voting - All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! Good Luck!
A is the original, because he said so and also he wouldn’t pull it, record, then swap it, record, then swap it again to give away the 8580.
Confused? The 8580 has a crisp sound and the ARMSID sounds more like the 6581 with whatever filter is built into it.
A sounds brighter, and B a bit muted in lower frequencies... but couldn't tell you which is which.
A was the real Sid :)
When your sound chip has more computing power than the rest of the computer...
I know! It's hilarious right! I was thinking the same thing when I put the Raspberry PI 'CO-PROCESSOR' in the BBC Micro :) :)
Kinda like the SNES, actually.
Not unusual at all in C64 peripherals. Even its original disk drive had more computing power than the computer.
I love how there is a thriving community for these classic, yet extremely important part of computing history...
Always amazes me what people manage to create - I feel lucky to be able to test them out!
Based on your comment about the A/D converters, I'm guess SID A is the replacement as it sounds a bit clearer. They are pretty close though.
Thanks for voting - All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! Good Luck!
Commando,
SID A straight away brings me to the game so Original
SID B sounds muffled not the way I remember the tune so ARMSID
Thanks for voting - All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! Good Luck!
I'd suggest you test this with the Turbo Outrun intro, as it has lots of digitised samples. It could help setting the digifix properly.
Will do - thanks for the tip!
I second Buford's suggestion. The Turbo Outrun intro on my Australian C64C 8580 always sounded muffled. Jeroen's voice sample was much clearer through a 6581.
@@damonsach3347 yep, turbo outrun digitised sound has lower volume.
Antiriad song or *Aztec Challenge for that rolling bass line!*
Hit it -- O-O-Outrun! Probably my favorite SID tune....
I've made a detailed comparison article some time ago where I compare selected songs that I consider critical. Recorded directly from the 6581, 8580 and ARMSID in both modes. I can't put the link here, so please pm me. However, it's been compared with ARMSID firmware version 2.8, which seems to be outdated now.
Thanks for watching! I've been looking at a load of comparison videos recently and there are definitely 'levels of accuracy' shall we say? :) :)
I want to say SID B is the real sid and A is the armsid just from the frequency responses.
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It seems to me that there's a huge difference in their filters. I can hear a resonance change every time the chip flips. Especially notable on the snare.
You've got better hearing than me :) Personally can't tell the difference :) :)
SID A
Edit: it's close, but SID A just sounds a bit crisper to me.
Firmware my ARM2SID was initially flashed with was too crisp in a certain scenario so I could easily tell it apart from a large number of MOS SIDs ... that has been patched since almost a year tho.
Thanks for voting - All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! Good Luck!
I don't know which chip is real or fake, but the sound is much fuller on A. Let me know what chip A was at the end and I will be getting that for my Ultimate64!
Will do - there'll be a full announcement on the 13th on the Community Tab along with behind the scenes evidence :)
The FPGA SID in the Ultimate64 is more accurate than the ARM SID so I wouldn’t bother. Perhaps the channel author can do a comparison
@@rootlabs I have plans to review the Ultimate64 but the reality is that not everyone can afford one, and most people may just simply want to replace their dying/dead SID, so better or not it just may be out of the reach of some folk. I am looking forward to reviewing the U64 though, not going to lie :) :)
The 2 Sid tunes you chose was made for / on the 6581. I heard the Exploding Fist SFX don't sound so good on a 8580.
That's why I chose them :) They're both 'off' so does it matter how 'off' they are ;)
@@TheRetroShack Can you not set the Armsid to be a 6581 in a C64-C ? like the FPGASID.
@@Rick_Todd Yep - you can emulate any SID in any machine :)
@@TheRetroShack Cool , Thank You
B almost sounds like it's running through Dolby noise reduction. Less high frequency, a little lower volume, a bit of a 'muddy' sound. That SID could have a different filter cutoff setting.
All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! :)
SID A I'd say is the ARMSID, but the difference is so small it is barely audible by someone that is not an expert. This is great to know, having a replacement that is so easy to manage is great. Glad got this recommended
Thanks for voting - All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! Good Luck!
Great job on the presentation of the ARMSID along with a little spattering of SID history. Great to know that if ever my SID goes west there's a good replacement that can handle the analogue side of things too ;)
Thanks very much - and yes, couple of days 'SID-less' and haven't really noticed any noticeable difference :)
SID A hits my sweet spot. I've heard these songs so many times and that sound, crashy, a bit sharp and harsh even at times, really takes me back. SID B sounds muffled, generated. It comes close, but it lacks the sharp edges. Like it's been filtered. So my vote goes to SID A definitely. And if that is the ARMSID, I'm buying one on the 13th!
Thanks for voting - All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! Good Luck!
totally agree
My only gripe about the SID is that all the music sounds the same to me, and I find the shrill style to be irritating.
It really does depend on the tune for me - There are some that are really forgettable and others that simply amaze me :) Thanks for watching!
SID A is the ARMSID , a lot sharper sounds, a bit too sharp
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I don’t pretend to know which is the original but I preferred the sound from A in every instance so my guess would be A is genuine?
Thanks for voting - All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! Good Luck!
Everyone would be stunned when the outcome would be:
A = SwinSID
B = ARMSID
Haha - Nope - absolutely, definitely one of them is an original 8580R5 :)
I have an ARMsid because I had a machine with a bad SID and I didn't want to buy another one that could just go bad. I particularly like the ARMsid because if you prefer one variant over the other, you can change which variant you emulate through the settings app. I have a breadbin with a real 6581 and a longboard 64C which is where the ARMsid is. I really wanted my 64c to have the 8580 sound, but on a longboard I obviously can't do that with a real one, so the ARMsid is great because it allows me to have the sound I want with the motherboard that I have.
Yep - that's a good solid argument for flexibility over being a stalwart over which version is best. If you can enjoy both sounds, great - if not, just enjoy the one you have :). It's all amazing really!
How does it stack up to the FPGASID, we surely need a battle
I'll see if I can arrange something :)
8:17 the commando credits list Computers UK LTD for "japan capsule", what's that? :D
That's a good spot! ...Sleuth mode ACTIVATED :)
@@TheRetroShack Hi both, Japan Capsule Computers, otherwise known as CAPCOM I believe :)
You did sth wrong when recording, there's a "reverb" on both a and b on the Commando tune. For Crazy Comets, I'd say b is the real SID as I think I heard timing bugs.
Sorry, you were incorrect this time round - think of it as coming in second :)
@@TheRetroShack I'd even say the emulation isn't too bad if they thought of the SID-bug. If you ever do a SID-comparison again, please also use a tune not from the Stone age of SID-compositions. I suggest Jeroen Tel's masterpieces which do a lot with filtering.
If there are differences in SID chips, shouldn't there be different firmwares to emulate those specific revisions?
There are settings in the ARMSID to emulate the different SID chips :)
@@TheRetroShack ohwel...thereIgothen!
I think that the ARMSID is the best replacement for the SID available and at some point I need to get one for my 83 Breadbin in which still works apart from not having any sound. Pity the competition prize isn't the original SID. I think SID B is the original.
Thanks for voting - All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! Good Luck!
I'm with you. The ARMSID runs at a lower voltage, has modern updates, and sounds amazing and can be either chip! I ordered one to compare with our SwinSID (came with our C64C) and 8580 we have coming.
As a sound engineer I clearly hear the difference. A is more clear and defined, B is little muffed and less presence. However, I can't say which one is real. I gonna guess - B is real, A is ARM. Cheers
Sorry, you were incorrect this time round - think of it as coming in second :)
@@TheRetroShack Wow! So emulation sounds worse than original.
Forget the comparison, but where is Sid A the chiptunes cover of the Radiohead classic?
Which one? Creep?
@@TheRetroShack, Kid A, the entire album, kid A, Sid A.
Given a choice of a C64 with no sound output (due to dead SID) or any modern replacement, I'll take the latter.
It's great to have options now that the real chips are scarce.
I can't wait to see a modern VIC-II drop-in (hopefully with enhancements).
No idea which is real, A or B even though I have the same revision SID in my C64.
Your wishes may well be answered soon - keep an eye on this guy: th-cam.com/channels/x2-Yj0WsM-T88y09ywPjMw.html
Yes. I have been watching...
Brilliant!
Playing Gridrunner & Impossible Mission there are some sounds that I noticed a difference between the ArmSID and the 6581,8580,Nano SwinSID, UltiSID and VICE but so long as things work it is fine with me.
All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! :)
SID A sounds right to me. SID B has more bass, mumbled sound and something feels wrong with it. I don't need an original SID though. Give it to someone else.
Thanks - very noble of you! We've got a nice group of peeps on this channel :)
6:54 Violation of TH-cam policy. Soliciting subscriptions. Specifically as a condition for entry into a competition.
It's not a condition for entry. I've made that clear in the pinned comment below the video and also in the description, which I've also updated to include Competition Rules and Privacy Statements, along with links to the Community Guidelines and Terms of Service. Apologies for any confusion - this is the first time running a competition on the channel. Bit of a minefield, so thanks for pointing this out!
SID B is the original SID, with all its delightful flaws and less clean sound.
Thanks for voting - All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! Good Luck!
SID B - I'd be interested to know how they were recorded as both sound like they have been recorded in a bathroom, a little bit too much reverb/echo . Did you apply any post FX?
I noticed it in the early 'demo' but thought it was a clever part of the sid tune. Anyway, I thought sid B was more accurate to my memory of the tunes. (even though my memory is of 6581 and not 8580)
Lol - nope, not in a bathroom :) All audio (and video) was taken straight from the C64>RGB OUT>SCART>HDMI>OBS Studio, no filtering or FX added at all :)
Thanks for voting - All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! Good Luck!
"B" is the original, I would say. However, I haven't been listening to the original sound of SID as I was used to from my old CRT TV (mixed with some video amplifier leakage artifacts) since 1992.
But I would prefer some different music style for the second example - like Wizball instead of Crazy Comets.
Sorry, you were incorrect this time round - think of it as coming in second :)
Great Video! I just learned of your channel today. I just made a video changing out my broken C64C Sid chip with the Armsid today. I was very impressed with the Armsid. I would of guessed that A was Armsid. I was wrong but it was so close. Look forward to your future videos!
Thanks very much! And hope you enjoy your ArmSID :)
SID B, SID A sounds exactly like my early 80's Breadbin, and C64C's with the 8580 have always sounded muddier, so SID B is the original, SID A sounds awesome though!
Thanks for voting - All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! Good Luck!
...I think SID B is the authentic one, because it has a little bit of excess filtering, and somebody developing a chip for retro audiophiles would make the default filtering as nonexistent as possible.
So... Which other chips can you upgrade? I'd love to see something like a swap from DRAM to SRAM and some performance comparisons... Particularly with C64 demos.
Sorry, you were incorrect this time round - think of it as coming in second :)
Also, you can replace the PLA chip and some clever so-and-so is working on a replacement VIC-II :)
@@TheRetroShack What's the PLA chip again?
SID B. Sounds a bit more muffled - like the 80's portable telly my C64 was connected to :)
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Can you do an exposé on the BBC Master. We had about 30 of those 128k machines in my high school in the 1980s. I think 12 of them were on the Econet.
I'm on the lookout for one at the moment :) I do intend to cover all of the Acorn machines in due course :) (Well, as many as I can get hold of... )
SID A (guess but there is a subtle difference). Without listening to Donkey Kong and having an 8-bit dance party Adrian Black style it's difficult to be certain 😏🤷♂️
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There is a SID A (the ARMSID) error in the background at (9:02) in the lower voice on the short (music) bit. I can not explain it clearly but it is exactly at 9:02. Software update needed?:)
The ARMSID is up to date with the latest firmware - whether it was SID A or SID B :) :) Thanks for watching :)
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The sid audio in this video sounds wrong to me, like there is some kind of delay processing happening on it?
Sid B is my guess , I'm not totally sure but I've a hunch and it hits the right tones for me , great channel thanks for the videos !
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SID A. SID B sounds like it has more Bass tones.
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I think it's SID B, but only guessing because it seems the filters are more crude on B.
Otherwise, both, despite the echo, sounds like perfectly fine SID chips to me.
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SID B - SID A is too clean and not gritty enough!
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Im going with SID B as the original but its difficult to tell over You Tube
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SID B is the authentic one. the two clearly sound different, however - they are staggeringly close! I guess I wont bother hunting down a SID for my one C64 with a dead SID! ARMSID, here I come!
Sorry, you were incorrect this time round - think of it as coming in second :)
Sid B
B is a slightly muddier sound. Sounds deeper, but at the expense of a little bit of clarity. A is sharper, less bass but notably clearer.
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SID B : Ive never heard a real SID so I've no idea - I've got 3 c64s and non of the SIDs work 🙂 but I'll be buying an armsid now I reckon!
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The answer to which is better is easy if you install the ARM2SID version.. in that case it's a huge upgrade from the original SID.
Think I might just get one of those to try :)
@@TheRetroShack Yeah if you wire it up for 3 SIDs and the configurable 1 SID + Yamaha FM. It's pretty fancy.
SID B is the real SID. The other one sounds “too” good, if you get my meaning. If I win, I’ll build a brand new C64 around it.
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A has a slightly clearer sound in bright areas such as treble but not much.
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SID A defo sounds brighter.
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I don't know, it was so many years ago since I owned a C64(C, if it makes any difference).... Is Sid B the original?
Sid A is the arm sid B the real one. (I like A more)
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I'm late to the game, so obviously a winner has already been selected and answer revealed somewhere. But since I am not as yet privy to that information, I'm going to guess that "A" is the ArmSID and "B" is the 8580. On the basis that the ArmSID has been reported elsewhere to be "too good" and sounds more like the 8580 than the 6581, for those purists of us who detested the short boards and their 8580's, and preferred the 6581AR as the pinnacle of SID development both sound too "clean".
Glad you enjoyed the video - just FYI was the original 8580 :)
Nah, to me B sounds a lot... muddier than A. A is 'crisp'.
All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! :)
I don't have a C64 so have no idea which is the real and which is the replacement, but I just want to say how awesome it is that people are still making replacement parts and upgrades for these much loved computers :)
Couldn't agree more :)
Why did you use the trite background muzak that takes focus away from your intended content?
Hopefully you'll notice in later videos that I get the balance right :) Learnt a lot in a short time :)
Bit late to the party but I'm a huge SID geek, so here's my 2c: I have been playing with the ARMSID for a couple of months now and I agree that it sounds so close to the 8580 that I'd fail the blindfold test 9 times out of 10. On the other hand, when it comes to the more unpredictable 6510, I think I can mostly tell the difference on those tracks that utilize funky filter distortions and other quirks.
You’re a better man than me Joe :) I can’t tell the difference 99.9% of the time, but that’s probably down to my hearing more than anything else :)
I’d be interested to know if this works in a SIDstation. Maybe I’ll pick one up to see how it behaves.
Let me know how it goes :)
@@TheRetroShack I just ordered two. Hopefully this doesn't end up frying the SIDstation itself somehow - those things are really hard to replace now!
My hope is that it gives a genuine SID sound but with a bit less background noise, and still works with some of the weirder chip-pushing stuff that the SIDstation does. I'd expect some things to not be the same of course (in particular the SIDstation has an alternate envelope generator mode that causes a real SID to express some nondeterministic behavior) but this is all for the sake of experimenting. :)
@@fluffycritter Let me know how you get on!
SID A is the original SID.
You can tell SID B is the ARMSID because the 'snare' drum on Crazy Comets sounds different, i.e. the filter is cutting the high frequencies. I've noticed it on a few tunes since the v2.11 firmware update, it used to sound spot on. I'm not complaining though as this update fixed a major issue with playing back 8-bit samples. ARMSID is superb otherwise.
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I can't say which one I think is genuine, but I can say which one I prefer the sound of. B. Definitely B.
A sounded hollow and shrill wheras B had far better bass extension and overall warmer tonality.
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I don't know which is which, but A sounds better. It's brighter, crisper whilst still maintaining the depth.
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The only difference I can tell is A has a bit more high end in ....but they both sound similar enough.
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A seems brighter than B. I wonder if the muffled sound is because chip b could be the older original SID.
If the firmware is changeable, can the harmonics be altered in order to sound like any given revision? Such as the AR version?
Yep, you can change the emulation to sound like different SID revisions and also to change some of the parameters to fine tune the sound :) I didn’t do any of that - sounded perfect to me on the stock settings :)
I'm curious how it handles the speech intro to MUSIK RUN/STOP...
I'll have a look (well, listen...) to that tomorrow :)
SID A is the ARMSID - crisper/cleaner sound. I have one and also will be keeping it installed, love how it sounds.
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To me they both sound equally great. 😳 That is amazing. So, I ordered the Armsid right away! Thanks! It will be replacing my xSID, which did replace the Swinsid Nano earlier. 😎
Glad you enjoyed the video, and hope you enjoy the new Armsid :)
These tunes has only minimal use of sid filters. Why was not used some modern tunes, full of sid effects, for ex. frome some scene demo? When i compared output in 1541UII, which emulate SID on FPGA, Commando was also very good - vs 8580 in computer. But any heavy filtered and sophisticated music, from Crest or Oxyron - emulated SID was very bad (sometimes VERY bad). So how ARMSID? Can C64 musician trust it? Or still must buy original overpriced SID?
Wow, I can tell there is a difference between the two but they both sound good, thats an amazing piece of emulation. Chip A sounds clearer than B, which sounds slightly muffled. If I had to guess I would say A is the ArmSID as its new and improved but I really would be guessing.
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Not sure which one is the ARMSID but 'A' definitely sounds crisper/brighter/better...
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@@TheRetroShack Am looking forward to it..
Notifications are firmly 'on'. :-)
This is cool. They must've improved the firmware quite a lot because when I heard it originally it was quite good but (to my ears) not that near a real chip.
Really I'm stoked to hear that we may finally have a good enough modern replacement, for that most important of chips.. That's amazing news!
My guess, although both sound slightly off (intentionally? I'm assuming those are 6581 tunes), is that SID A is the real one, and B is the ARMSID.
The bass on chip B feels too deep and it's slightly muddy overall.
Don't need a chip though so if I win feel free to give it to someone who needs it. :)
Fun video, keep it up mate! This channel is going to grow and grow.. :)
Thanks very much!
SID B is the original one to me, the slight muffle is how I remember it.
The new one sounds almost identical though, I am genuinely impressed.
Oh, and you gained a new sub!
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A seems brighter and cleaner plus slightly louder. B sounds more filtered. No idea which ones which, the armsid does its job really well.
I would say SID A but only as a wild ass guess. Interesting video and I await the results. I've actually owned an ARMSID for about 3-4 months but haven't used it in a month or two since I've been away for work.
All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! :)
8:46 that bass is too low. Sid A is then the original one.
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It would be nice to hear the difference on modern, 8bit Digi.
For instance Fix it Felix Jr.
Wow - just watched the long play of the C64 Fix-It Felix Jr. - didn't even know this version existed!! It's even better than the Megadrive/Genesis version :). Thanks for that!
@@TheRetroShack thanks! And sorry for the shameless plug ;-).
It would be nice to check the intro speech, the "I'm gonna wreck it" on the loading bitmap. I once had an armsid and it didn't sound good at all, (but still better than swinsid or ultisid).
But probably things have improved in the meantime
brokenbytes.itch.io/fix-it-felix-jr
A sounds a bit choppy to me at times. So I go with B as the original. The difference is not really that notable though.
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I'd say that B is the original SID chip. There are pretty obvious differences when hearing both like this but both sound very good and had I only heard the Armsid and not have been told beforehand I doubt I would question whether it was a chip from MOS or not. :)
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there is definately a difference between them cant tell you what one is what but b sounds a bit smoother and to me better . ill go with A as beeing the original chip . i would have no use for the chip though would love too know what one is what .
You’re right - A is the original SID :)
I am going with SID A. B sounds a bit muffled
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In my guess the SID B is the original.
To me the A has clearly more high frequency content in it. I’m assuming the modern DAC has more bandwidth available.
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For those of you in the UK. Dont forget that you need to import the Chip from the EU - now after Brexit. Best would be to try a local online store to import them in larger quantities and offer them in the UK domestically. That will still be more expensive but you save a lot of those excessive shipping costs caused by the new customs procedures.
Worth shopping around for sure!
I've gone back and forth, but I'm going to guess that SID B is the original. Both have their own pro's and cons in how they sound, but some of the higher frequencies in SID A just don't sound "right" to me. Of course, I may simply have grown up with a different revision SID in my system.
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earthly idea which is which. I mean, I can tell the difference between A and B. One of them sounds like it has a filter on it compared to the other. But as to which one is the authentic version? Yes idea!
Hope you watched the reveal video to find out :)
Would been nice if you played Commando on a proper 6581 ;) 8580 it will sound messed up on either way .. same with crazy comets. and there is a difference in sound on A and B.
Thanks for watching and hope you enjoyed the challenge :)
Sid B is the original one in both Commando and Crazy Comets. It would be more evident if the compaired Sids were 6581’s - which have more ‘analog warmth’ ( a combination of filters and envelopes). I use a C64 with FPGASid to compose some tracks and I am happy with the results. For gaming, ARM2SID or other replacement chips are all good - unless you are a purist.
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Plug and Play? This is not what Plug and Play means. Direct replacement, drop-in.
Plug and Play meant IRQ, DMA and Memory address had to be specified and you could only change this by directly swapping jumpers on the hardware.
Nah, I just plugged it in and played :) Seriously though, it was a turn of phrase only. :) :)
Am I supposed to guess which sounds slightly different or which letter is which chip? That being said, I'm blindly guessing without any reference between the letters and chips whatsoever, A is Armsid and B is SID. Or Armsid is the crisper sounding one. Or B sounds slightly different to A. I could be right, wrong or both.
All will be revealed weekend of the 13th March! :)
This is cool that this is in the Commodore scene. The Atari has a PokeyMax chip that can emulate 4 Pokey's and COVOX with the newest revision is going to add a SID. I hope someday we could see a stereo sid version of this, and maybe add something such as DigiMax. Pretty cool stuff going on with retro computers, and at prices that don't break the bank.
Couldn't agree more!
The ARM2SID states it does stereo SID or 9 channels mono or single SID + OPL FM.