I kept the mid-level hub 30 to have some DPS instead of all-DERP, with the DERP 30s in the wings, and it works fairly well. At least it feels "fairly well" compared to the abysmal time I had with the other gun setups on this plane. I just fly around at 2500 meters hunting heavies and bombers. Flew my new Ta 183 for the first time tonight, and it was well worth the Ta 152 grind.
Tried that configuration while grinding stock, it was horrible. Those wing-mounted 30s couldn't hit right and the short 30 on the hub doesn't reach far enough. It forced me to get closer than normal.
@@MarvinT0606 The majority of my damage comes from the faster-firing hub gun. I wish I could have those in the wings too! This plane has no difficulty getting close to enemies.
@@brooksrownd2275 I think they're the best close-range weapons in the game barring the F-84s Vulcan gun. You gradually stop relying on them at Tier 8 because they're a liability when fighting jets using a prop plane. The long range 30mms cancels out that disadvantage by letting you hit them from afar.
My argument was more that my DERP aim isn't going to be very accurate in the first place. Some dispersion actually helps hit some shots that I had really miss-aimed. ;) When I fly this thing I don't really line it up carefully like I do with single-gun derps - I just pop-pop-pop the trigger. Going by memory the convergence in this video does look a bit tighter than I'm used to...but I haven't flown it in a couple weeks. On the other hand the point about not depending on the tracers on the screen is an important one, since it's possible that what goes in between the game client and the server is more along the lines of rolling dice than modelling ballistics of each bullet.
actually they DO model the ballistics of each bullet. Much to the vexation of players using the high tier american planes equipped with Ma Deuce and her 7-11 other sisters each blazing away at 1200 rpm.
it's harder to calculate your "Deflection (ballistics) - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org › wiki › Deflection_(ballistics) Deflection shooting is a technique used for effectively propelling a projectile at a moving target, also known as leading the target, i.e. shooting ahead of a moving ..." Lead of the turning Target shots when you zoom in.
It has been my experience that german 30mm guns are notoriously finicky when it comes to aiming them correctly. Mostly because they just dont share the same ballistics as any other faction in the game. I have not heard of any player say out loud that they can just pick them up cold and make the most of their accuracy. Usually an adjustment period is in order. Some players just take longer than others to make the adjustment. That difference is best shown in your performance at the beginning of the game vs your performance at the end of the game. With that said...the 15% reduction of dispersion (with no penalty to pilot survivability unlike a gunsight) that comes with MM1+2 is nothing to sneeze at but the SPECIAL trick from Marksman II is its other bonus; a "5% increase to auto-hit" . the only information i ever saw about this came from data miners that occasionally get a hold of the full stat lines of in-game weapons. how it works is kinda weird but here goes my best guess. At the Very Center of your dispersion circle is your line of aim. around that line is a cone shaped area that is less than 2 degrees wide (usually a small or medium sized fraction of one degree) that usually translates into maybe an area on your screen as much as 4 pixels in size around the dot in the very center of your aiming reticle. in theory when you line up this zone with an enemy airplane exactly right at the moment you pull the trigger ... the bullet/cannon shell will automatically hit the target no matter what the target does or where it goes while the shell is traveling to the target. This is most obvious when you are engaged in a head to head attack with large caliber low velocity cannon shells, like say the 37 mm cannons on the XP-58 chain lightning or those german mk 108's (but it works with all forward guns in the game to some degree or another) So there you are banging away at each other and after your plane passes the enemy plane SOMEHOW you still manage to hear the distinct sound of a hit registering on the enemy (and yes you did damage) even though by the time it registers that plane is not just behind you but 70 meters behind you as you both move away from each other at hundreds of mph. did the bullets do a magical u-turn? in that particular instance ... yes. It also becomes apparent when you are shooting away at a target and you KNOW that your dispersion is kinda rough with shells going all over the place. Think American Heavy machine guns. Or the aforementioned XP-58. All of a sudden instead of the sound of maybe one or two hit registers per second you begin to hear a rapid series of hit registers one right after another. That is the auto aim taking effect as well. And honestly is the only way i can hit an aerial target with my Stuka's 37 mm cannons.
Well Vee, in my brain my shells are always on target. So if they dont hit its either packet loss or the enemy is using hacks. JK bro great flying and another great vid.
YohYamialwayzHIGH not really, these guns aren’t actually inaccurate. But if you envision a cone coming out of the from of the gun representing the possible dispersion then extrapolate that out to the ranges of these “sniper” planes it feels more inaccurate. To add another layer of complexity, as your guns get hotter that cone gets wider as well. That is why i try to keep the shots on this plane down to a 2-3 burst.
@@Veebat right, I guess what I'm really wondering is would I be better served using 3 skill points on other skills than marksman-2 unless I'm flying something like this? I have Marksman-2 on my zero because it felt necessary for those early rounds to connect with how fast the guns heat up
YohYamialwayzHIGH my order for skills on a turn fighter typically goes aerodynamics expert, fire fighter, aerobatics expert, engine guru I, marksman I. I’m sure there are some personal preference arguments to be had, but those are the skills I aim for
For the 152's 30mms, not really. They fire fast enough that your first shot is just to get the right lead before following up with a direct hit. They're accurate but rely entirely on getting the right amount of lead
Yes. but with a few caveats. In the case of this particular plane ... you could go either way. MM2 will be helpful for the long range engagements this machine is built for (max range sniping of bomber flights without worry from an-ger-y tailgunners) and if you wish to Min/Max for that then go ahead. However. when shooting at smaller targets at closer rages it is not nearly as necessary. As VeeBat demonstrated; with or without MM1+2 sufficient player skill can (eventually) meet the need if the gun itself is accurate enough.
I suppose a good way to test it out is to have Vee jump into a Ta 153 'cold' like he did here only this time with a pilot that did not have MM2. At which point we could see if it still takes him just one battle (as was the case with MM2) or if it take him 3 to get accustomed to the guns. because Science! So if you have those 3 spare points from Marksman 2; they could go into something like Resilience which is a very powerful defensive skill that a Ta 153 could take advantage of. When it comes to other planes ... Over all; the general rule i stick to is that gun placement determines need of MM. If your guns are mounted on the centerline of your craft in a hub mount or must be synchronised with your prop ... Marks man is not required. and does not make much of a difference in performance. (A difference that can be duplicated and exceeded with a gun site) If your guns are mounted on the hull or wing root of your fuselage. Marksman is not required. In the case of wing root mounts that arent already on your center line ... convergence is a thing and marksman will have an effect to performance. But only if you are already intimately familiar with the paticular characteristics of your weapons system. However if your guns are mounted on middle of the wings ... convergence effects are a big deal. Marksman helps out a lot.No matter what gun it is. And even if you aren't familiar with the guns at all. Exceptions DO exist of course. THe Bf 109 Z uses two extreme wing mounts. and then two hub cannons. But none of them are on the aircraft centerline so those hub cannons behave more like a wing root mount. MM2 is great for this plane. THe XP -58 uses four cannons mounted around the nose of the aircraft. However that nose is so fat the distance between the guns is the same as the wing root mounts in a Fw 190. And the guns themselves are more like shotguns than autocannons ... The Fw 190 A-5 has guns every where. 2x 15mm almost centered on the cowling. A very accurate pair of 20mm at the wing roots. and two more mounted mid wing. Are they less accurate there? oh yes. but many players dont mind so much because they arent the best of shots and having half of the 20's "spreading the love around" means that overall DPM is maintained in "near miss" situations. So the 5 points of Marksman usually wind up used for Engine Guru. Meanwhile the next plane in the line "Dora the Exploder" has the bulk of its damage output in wing mounted 30mm cannons. Marks man 2 DOES have a positive effect. (unfortunately there are quite a few other things the plane needs addressed. Between MM 2+Engine Guru 2 you're already up to 10 points before you picked up the likes of ADE+firefighting, battletested, Resilience etc) The Hunter at tier 10 has those monster Adens that throw bullets with the size weight and ballistic performance of soup cans at your enemy. And most players have a hard time making them connect. Because first you have a nose section for the pilot. then an entire extra fat british jet engine. only then are you at the wing root of the aircraft. But in this case that means the space between the Adens is now enough to match almost the whole wing span of a P-40 or a yak. Marksman 2 is a necessity. and a gun sight as well. Meanwhile the tier 9-10 messerschmitts are meta planes of doom that have 4 20 mm cannons mounted about maybe foot wider from each other as the shoulders of their pilot. Even stock they still shoot soo much better than any heavy at their tier. (even the german with the nose mounted 30's) In this case the 5 pilot points needed for marksman 1+2 really Can be used better somewhere else (engine guru 1+2 or Cruise Flight+resilience or ADE+ABE+FireFighting ) And with a certain amount of practice ... you could even forgo the use of a gunsight for a the nifty fun things something like a G-Suit can provide.
![[NA_231218] World of Warplanes Ta 152 Gameplay (GER - VIII)](/img/n.gif)
I kept the mid-level hub 30 to have some DPS instead of all-DERP, with the DERP 30s in the wings, and it works fairly well. At least it feels "fairly well" compared to the abysmal time I had with the other gun setups on this plane. I just fly around at 2500 meters hunting heavies and bombers. Flew my new Ta 183 for the first time tonight, and it was well worth the Ta 152 grind.
Tried that configuration while grinding stock, it was horrible. Those wing-mounted 30s couldn't hit right and the short 30 on the hub doesn't reach far enough. It forced me to get closer than normal.
@@MarvinT0606 The majority of my damage comes from the faster-firing hub gun. I wish I could have those in the wings too! This plane has no difficulty getting close to enemies.
@@brooksrownd2275 I think they're the best close-range weapons in the game barring the F-84s Vulcan gun. You gradually stop relying on them at Tier 8 because they're a liability when fighting jets using a prop plane. The long range 30mms cancels out that disadvantage by letting you hit them from afar.
My argument was more that my DERP aim isn't going to be very accurate in the first place. Some dispersion actually helps hit some shots that I had really miss-aimed. ;) When I fly this thing I don't really line it up carefully like I do with single-gun derps - I just pop-pop-pop the trigger. Going by memory the convergence in this video does look a bit tighter than I'm used to...but I haven't flown it in a couple weeks. On the other hand the point about not depending on the tracers on the screen is an important one, since it's possible that what goes in between the game client and the server is more along the lines of rolling dice than modelling ballistics of each bullet.
actually they DO model the ballistics of each bullet.
Much to the vexation of players using the high tier american planes equipped with Ma Deuce and her 7-11 other sisters each blazing away at 1200 rpm.
I never could come to grips with this thing
One of my favorite planes when it's shiggles time (it's a portmanteau). Glad to see I'm not alone!
it's harder to calculate your "Deflection (ballistics) - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org › wiki › Deflection_(ballistics) Deflection shooting is a technique used for effectively propelling a projectile at a moving target, also known as leading the target, i.e. shooting ahead of a moving ..." Lead of the turning Target shots when you zoom in.
It has been my experience that german 30mm guns are notoriously finicky when it comes to aiming them correctly.
Mostly because they just dont share the same ballistics as any other faction in the game.
I have not heard of any player say out loud that they can just pick them up cold and make the most of their accuracy. Usually an adjustment period is in order. Some players just take longer than others to make the adjustment. That difference is best shown in your performance at the beginning of the game vs your performance at the end of the game.
With that said...the 15% reduction of dispersion (with no penalty to pilot survivability unlike a gunsight) that comes with MM1+2 is nothing to sneeze at
but the SPECIAL trick from Marksman II is its other bonus; a "5% increase to auto-hit" .
the only information i ever saw about this came from data miners that occasionally get a hold of the full stat lines of in-game weapons.
how it works is kinda weird but here goes my best guess.
At the Very Center of your dispersion circle is your line of aim. around that line is a cone shaped area that is less than 2 degrees wide (usually a small or medium sized fraction of one degree) that usually translates into maybe an area on your screen as much as 4 pixels in size around the dot in the very center of your aiming reticle.
in theory when you line up this zone with an enemy airplane exactly right at the moment you pull the trigger ... the bullet/cannon shell will automatically hit the target no matter what the target does or where it goes while the shell is traveling to the target.
This is most obvious when you are engaged in a head to head attack with large caliber low velocity cannon shells, like say the 37 mm cannons on the XP-58 chain lightning or those german mk 108's (but it works with all forward guns in the game to some degree or another)
So there you are banging away at each other and after your plane passes the enemy plane SOMEHOW you still manage to hear the distinct sound of a hit registering on the enemy (and yes you did damage) even though by the time it registers that plane is not just behind you but 70 meters behind you as you both move away from each other at hundreds of mph.
did the bullets do a magical u-turn? in that particular instance ... yes.
It also becomes apparent when you are shooting away at a target and you KNOW that your dispersion is kinda rough with shells going all over the place.
Think American Heavy machine guns. Or the aforementioned XP-58.
All of a sudden instead of the sound of maybe one or two hit registers per second you begin to hear a rapid series of hit registers one right after another.
That is the auto aim taking effect as well. And honestly is the only way i can hit an aerial target with my Stuka's 37 mm cannons.
Seeing that noone has corrected you i must take it upon myself.
MK does not stand for Mark but for Motorkanone.
Well Vee, in my brain my shells are always on target. So if they dont hit its either packet loss or the enemy is using hacks. JK bro great flying and another great vid.
TA 152 THE BEST 1.9
So is marksman-2 only really necessary for "... notoriously inaccurate.." guns? Wp btw vee
YohYamialwayzHIGH not really, these guns aren’t actually inaccurate. But if you envision a cone coming out of the from of the gun representing the possible dispersion then extrapolate that out to the ranges of these “sniper” planes it feels more inaccurate. To add another layer of complexity, as your guns get hotter that cone gets wider as well. That is why i try to keep the shots on this plane down to a 2-3 burst.
@@Veebat right, I guess what I'm really wondering is would I be better served using 3 skill points on other skills than marksman-2 unless I'm flying something like this? I have Marksman-2 on my zero because it felt necessary for those early rounds to connect with how fast the guns heat up
YohYamialwayzHIGH my order for skills on a turn fighter typically goes aerodynamics expert, fire fighter, aerobatics expert, engine guru I, marksman I. I’m sure there are some personal preference arguments to be had, but those are the skills I aim for
For the 152's 30mms, not really. They fire fast enough that your first shot is just to get the right lead before following up with a direct hit. They're accurate but rely entirely on getting the right amount of lead
Yes. but with a few caveats. In the case of this particular plane ... you could go either way.
MM2 will be helpful for the long range engagements this machine is built for (max range sniping of bomber flights without worry from an-ger-y tailgunners) and if you wish to Min/Max for that then go ahead.
However. when shooting at smaller targets at closer rages it is not nearly as necessary. As VeeBat demonstrated; with or without MM1+2 sufficient player skill can (eventually) meet the need if the gun itself is accurate enough.
I suppose a good way to test it out is to have Vee jump into a Ta 153 'cold' like he did here only this time with a pilot that did not have MM2. At which point we could see if it still takes him just one battle (as was the case with MM2) or if it take him 3 to get accustomed to the guns. because Science!
So if you have those 3 spare points from Marksman 2; they could go into something like Resilience which is a very powerful defensive skill that a Ta 153 could take advantage of.
When it comes to other planes ... Over all; the general rule i stick to is that gun placement determines need of MM.
If your guns are mounted on the centerline of your craft in a hub mount or must be synchronised with your prop ...
Marks man is not required. and does not make much of a difference in performance.
(A difference that can be duplicated and exceeded with a gun site)
If your guns are mounted on the hull or wing root of your fuselage.
Marksman is not required. In the case of wing root mounts that arent already on your center line ... convergence is a thing and marksman will have an effect to performance. But only if you are already intimately familiar with the paticular characteristics of your weapons system.
However if your guns are mounted on middle of the wings ... convergence effects are a big deal.
Marksman helps out a lot.No matter what gun it is. And even if you aren't familiar with the guns at all.
Exceptions DO exist of course.
THe Bf 109 Z uses two extreme wing mounts. and then two hub cannons. But none of them are on the aircraft centerline so those hub cannons behave more like a wing root mount. MM2 is great for this plane.
THe XP -58 uses four cannons mounted around the nose of the aircraft.
However that nose is so fat the distance between the guns is the same as the wing root mounts in a Fw 190. And the guns themselves are more like shotguns than autocannons ...
The Fw 190 A-5 has guns every where. 2x 15mm almost centered on the cowling. A very accurate pair of 20mm at the wing roots. and two more mounted mid wing. Are they less accurate there? oh yes. but many players dont mind so much because they arent the best of shots and having half of the 20's "spreading the love around" means that overall DPM is maintained in "near miss" situations. So the 5 points of Marksman usually wind up used for Engine Guru.
Meanwhile the next plane in the line "Dora the Exploder" has the bulk of its damage output in wing mounted 30mm cannons.
Marks man 2 DOES have a positive effect.
(unfortunately there are quite a few other things the plane needs addressed. Between MM 2+Engine Guru 2 you're already up to 10 points before you picked up the likes of ADE+firefighting, battletested, Resilience etc)
The Hunter at tier 10 has those monster Adens that throw bullets with the size weight and ballistic performance of soup cans at your enemy.
And most players have a hard time making them connect.
Because first you have a nose section for the pilot. then an entire extra fat british jet engine. only then are you at the wing root of the aircraft. But in this case that means the space between the Adens is now enough to match almost the whole wing span of a
P-40 or a yak. Marksman 2 is a necessity. and a gun sight as well.
Meanwhile the tier 9-10 messerschmitts are meta planes of doom that have 4 20 mm cannons mounted about maybe foot wider from each other as the shoulders of their pilot. Even stock they still shoot soo much better than any heavy at their tier.
(even the german with the nose mounted 30's)
In this case the 5 pilot points needed for marksman 1+2 really Can be used better somewhere else
(engine guru 1+2 or Cruise Flight+resilience or ADE+ABE+FireFighting )
And with a certain amount of practice ... you could even forgo the use of a gunsight for a the nifty fun things something like a G-Suit can provide.
play in eu server by so vaste time with aiming ,its inpossibel reds take u down rush :))