My first thought was literally “oh of course, ANOTHER long-form Dark Souls video essay” 😂 It’s wild just how valuable the game (and series) has proven to be for content creators
I did the Tomb of the Giants thing on my first playthrough. Quite the realization when I reached the bottom, but I'll never forget how good it felt to reach the top again
As far as your complaints about the Abyss traversal, this is one of the major issues I have with people playing games while streaming. They aren't paying attention to the details of the game as much as they would be if they were playing without streaming and being entirely engulfed in the world and the clues it has. 1. Talking to Ingward in the New Londo ruins explains that in order to traverse the abyss, you must find artorias as he was an abyss walker. 2. Talking to Andre lets you know where the grave of artorias lies (the woods). And the ring itself states that it is a ring that allows traversal of the abyss. The game gives you numerous clues before you get to the abyss fog wall, but you have to be alert enough to find it and digest what the game is telling you. Lastly, The crestfallen warrior explicitly says that the 2nd bell is far below in a swamp. If you don't take the time to exhaust your options as far as paths to take, then of course you will waste time fighting enemies way tougher(catacombs, tomb of the giants) and then waste more time trying to navigate all the way to the top. If you don't take time to invest into reading item descriptions and exhausting NPC dialog, then yes, that is what happens.
My issue was for the abyss is that i misclicked a button by mistake and it skipped the hint of needing one of the items. Due to this i was just kinda fucked unless i googled it
I disagree, A first playthrough of Dark Souls isn't hampered by NPC invaders, that IS a part of every playthrough (if you're playing in human form). It's a part of the game, it fits with the lore, It gives us more cool items and armor to use, more characters to speculate and wonder about, and adds to the game in lots of way. Respectfully I disagree but even so like this video a lot, the more long form Dark Souls content the better in my opinion lol
Thanks so much for the thoughtful comment! And you make a great point that everyone that plays the game will interact with NPC invaders, so from that perspective they are as much a part of the game as summoning, bonfires, and boss fights. Honestly if they just removed the red filter and didn't have them spawn out of the ground I'd be happier with them. I really enjoyed the optional challenge they offer, and the unique weapons and armour you get are definitely not a detriment by any measure. I guess my problem was that I could never get past their visual effects, they make them appear very much "not of this world", and while that's definitely intentional, it also feels at odds with the rest of the enemies in the game. Every other enemy comes across as a real person or creature that inhabited the world long before you arrived, as though you're seeing the unfortunate end to a story you never heard. If the NPC invaders were a bit less spectral looking, or perhaps if you got the opportunity to talk to their in-world counterparts at other points in the game like you can with Marvelous Chester for example, it would help with that. Invaders are basically from parallel worlds right? So you could even have hollow/weaker versions of these invaders, or the corpses of their doppelgängers, in the world to find. I feel like that would go a long way to help make them feel more "real" as it were. Obviously this is my opinion, but as they appear currently, they are out of place in the game and I think that's what makes them feel like extra content, if that makes sense? But again, thanks so much for the thoughtful comment, I'm always down to get into some respectful disagreements, and thanks so much for your kind words as well. I'm glad you like the video!
@@PolarBear084 definitely. I wish they would've done something with the NPCs around hollowing, our character can look "hollow' but not actually BE hollow, and yet the NPCs go from looking perfect (nice skin, no hollow features) to all of a sudden hollow, a la crestfallen warrior, laurentius, etc etc. would've been cool to see some NPCs gain the "hollow look" before actually hollowing and then get a hold of some humanity and restore their appearance so that it seemed more a realistic part of the world, rather than just something the player character did. As for NPC invaders, I can understand the color effects taking away from the immersion, the lore around invaders and summoning was kinda weak to begin with. Solaire is in our world by the Hellkite drake, but then when we summon him he has the appearance of a summon, so if he is from another universe why is he also "normal" at times in our universe? Why isn't he always golden? Lots of holes in DS lore it seems haha keep up the great work
@exposingpowerfullieslivest5082 He isn't always golden because time does not flow in one direction in Lordran. When we summon him he is coming from a different timespace. When he is not golden, our times are aligned. Some characters are always aligned throughout time, others are never aligned, and lastly, some are both.
@@PolarBear084npc invaders have been different colors since demons souls and it is explained in lore in both series. In bloodborne the invaders are not different colors because it doesn't fit in with the lore. Whilst I understand "immersion" is a thing that some may complain about/strive towards there's a bit of an issue here. Is a glowing person more immersion breaking than your character being unable to crawl over tiny walls? How about being able to ninja flip while wearing Havel's armor? This is lazy criticism. Also, do you /really/ think the necessity of reading items in video game is grounds for saying the worldbuilding just "isn't there for most players"? You need some kind of Lord of The Rings voice over for every bit of lore for you to care?
Great video. My one comment on the criticism section is that although the series ended up leaning into the difficulty aspect, I think that combat was initially designed just to enhance what is at its heart an easy exploration game by providing tension. Most of the time during exploration you don't end up dying because you ran out of flasks but because you did something greedy like try to fight 4v1 or you got knocked off a ledge. This is also why a lot of the things that trivialize the bosses that you had a problem with exist. Bosses jumping off platforms, the amulet negating Manus, elemental weaknesses trivializing bosses, and summoning players or npcs to double team bosses all exist to make sure that bosses are capstones to an area and never really risk being an impediment to the exploration.
@@boshwa20is that a dig towards covetous demon? I would think no since the connotation of "now" made me think you were referring to the most recent title i.e. elden ring. But I guess you could be separating the two groups into "DS1" and "everygame after" (br fromsoft obv). Or were you referring to Golden Hippopotamus?
I was one of the unfortunate souls who went down to the tomb of giants before killing Fatman and Slym. Seeing there was no way through was fucking soul crushing and realization that I have to make my way back up where I fought through hell and struggled with was miserable. However, I think it helped me understand exploring in that game or fromsoft games in general. It helped me keep a mental note of paths I come across, if I saw a path that looked like it was off the beaten path, I'd memorize where it was and tell myself to come back to this spot when I finished the route I was currently on. It's definitely easy to get lost in that game on your first playthrough but I also feel like in hindsight there's quite a bit of handholding on where to go, like reading a description of the key you just got or seeing that 2 second cutscene of some gate opening up in some random place that you might've seen sometime in your journey. With all that being said though, you've done an amazing job with this video and I'm always excited to see what you've got cooking up in the future.
You make a fantastic point. Ending up struggling through one of those long detours definitely shows you what to look for in the future for signs you might be heading in the wrong direction. If you can make it through the despair you do learn alot from it, and you're probably more than skillful enough at that point to tackle the areas of the game you missed. But also, that climb back out of the Tomb is utterly hellish. I think it took me a solid 2 hours to finally claw my way back out of there during that playthrough. And I'm really glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for the kind words mate
Also if you go to the Catacombs first and struggle, but then meet Andre and talk to him, then later find the Moonlight Butterfly Andre lets you know how to best the skeletons of the Catacombs
Good video! I disagree with the Manus take though. If I hear you correctly the only issues you have is the magic usage and the pendant. I found dodging the magic to be difficult but more than possible, and running inwards not to be cheese but aggressive and keep me in the following melee. As far as the pendant, for myself and seeing others its not a stop button on the magic. It still requires timing, especially on multi attacks, and having to swap between it and your flask on the fly gave management of healing and defense that I enjoyed personally. All in all I think the magic flows to be a new element that sits well with Manus and adds new dynamics to the fight.
Hey thanks for your comment, I'm glad you enjoyed the video! You make a good point that running towards Manus for the Dark Circle attack is a consistent way to avoid it, and it does incentivise you to keep up the offensive going, which definitely makes sense for how frenetic and fast paced the fight is already. I do feel like, visually at least, it seems like you should be able to roll through the circle attack as it closes in, and I think not being able to do that consistently is what frustrated me about it. Running at a boss to avoid an attack does feel a little strange too, and not being able to roll or position yourself in a way that the bolts pass by you is a shame. But you're 100% right that the pendant requires timing to use correctly, so it's not an instant silver bullet as it were. And his other two magic attacks are great, and add a lot to the fight for sure. I do love Manus as a boss overall, definitely in my top 5 I'd say.
I didn't even realize during my first play through (also latecomer, 2017, but went in blind) that the second half of the game was considered rough and unfinished. I loved every second of it. I did think the dragon butts in Lost Izalith were stupid but other than that, I thought it was amazing and I still knew exactly where I was in the world relative to everywhere else, in contrast to your critique re: after Anor Londo. When the path ended somewhere it felt like a realistic end, all of these paths were leading me to a Lord. You could still get back on foot if you wanted. It was still connected. (Edited for spelling)
Yes-yes-yes! Have no idea what's people talking about! Tomb of Giants is brilliant. One of the best levels in the series. New londo have such a thick and oppressive atmosphere,and revelation of piles of corpses is so impressive, i was stunned. Archives is... fine? Nothing special about it, nothing particularly good, but nothing particularly bad either. Izalith is kinda bad, but it's unique enough to be memorable and doesn't feel like a waste of time. Boss is terrible, but not enough to be a deal breaker, coz it keep your progress even if you die, and you can brute force your way through. It's bad but tolerable.
As someone who has 200+ hours at ds1 and still loves to pick this game up sometimes, hearing you discover the game i love so much is heartmelting the script is just on point too!
Hey a fellow 200+ hours member! I just recently reached that milestone while working on this video! And thank you so much! I'm really glad you enjoyed it!
To bring some light to your concerns about invaders in Dark Souls...Invaders are there only when you are in human form, and do so to balance out you having the ability to summon help for boss runs/boss fights. You have the ability to have help when fighting a boss, with the expense of potentially being invaded (by NPCs or real players). Thats how it balances out. Secondly, each of the NPC invaders do actually contribute to the story/lore of the game world, as by reading item descriptions from what they drop after you defeat them tell you a little about their story or tragedy in the world of dark souls.
A real invader got Solaire killed in my world in Anor Londo by getting me to hit and aggro him. A silver knight got him before I could find a good way to evade him and get back to Oswald at the belltower. Unforgivable crime :,(
Oh wow, I guess that just goes to show how little I kindled, lol. I always thought only the fully satiated Lordvessel gave you 20 Estus. That's cool to know!
Yep. It's basically a difficulty slider they added for the second half. Arguably one that goes too far in the easy direction: If you need more than 12 or 15 heals in one area you probably aren't ready to progress.
I don't understand how you argue in favor of Dark Souls' world and exploration being cryptic, saying that the messages "spoil" things for the player and make exploration less interesting... yet you point to your chat and thank them for giving you guidance and stopping you from going down a certain path you weren't prepared for yet. Going on to say that if you'd have kept going down that path without them around, you'd have been so drained you'd have quit the game and never come back, insinuating the game is doing something wrong by leaving this path blatantly open to a new player. Do you want the game to be cryptic about what you should do and where you should go or not? Even the way you say you engaged with chat, seeing their vague messages and getting the idea you're not supposed to go this way yet based on what they said without them directly saying "go the other way"... that's how people engage with Dark Souls world messages. They see one and draw a conclusion based on that, it's basically the same experience of other players hinting at something and you learned from what they said.
It's because he saw someone else talk about player messages being bad in a different video essay, so he decided to parrot it, but doesn't actually believe it himself
Thanks so much for the comment! You are right, these two points do at first seem to contradict each other. Do I want the world to be open and unguided so that I can make mistakes and learn on my own, or do I not want to waste hours of effort on a very difficult detour that would take yet more hours to escape? Well, both, honestly. I can praise this game for how enthralling its game world is, enjoy the open ended adventure that it allows you to have, and also acknowledge the downsides of designing the game in this way. Hell, just moving the golden fog door to right before Pinwheel would alleviate a lot my issues with the graveyard path, so that you don't have to get so deep into that hole before knowing you have to turn around. And I see your point about the player messages, and I believe I even mentioned that I do like them thematically. It makes it seem like there are many earlier adventurers who have left their mark on the world, leaving behind breadcrumbs for the next brave souls that start the journey to follow. But again, they do have their downsides. I don't think I'd want them removed from the game completely, but maybe an option to toggle them off while still being online, or allowing players to mark some tags as spoilers so they appear in a different colour would work. Basically I'm trying to say that I agree with you. I do both appreciate and respect the benefits of the cryptic, open world and the player messages that fill its streets with the echoes of past adventures, but I also acknowledge that they can sometimes be detrimental. And thanks again for the insightful comment, I really enjoyed reading it!
@PolarBear084 that's why they don't just let you put whatever message you want to put. The templates cam help curtail something that could other wise be a super spoiler. Even when it spoils something I do like when "be wary of right" stops me from getting stomped, and then I can go back and rate that message to help the player in their world. Playing offline just isn't the same.
I stopped watching the video at that point... Not being able to be objective invalidates good criticism On a related note, I would have never got past the invisible crystal cave walkway without the message. Meanwhile in tomb of the giants I was stuck for multiple hours without the lantern trying to decipher what "Sealed by the great lord's power" might mean. At this point I learned from google that, no the Graveyard is infact not the first direction to go after killing the tutorial boss
Yeah, Dark Souls 1 was the entry in the series I finished last. Funnily enough, only a few days ago. I had probably 5 attempts at the game before that. One of those in particular stopped after reaching the golden fog-gate in the catacombs after only having rung the first bells at the top. After that I didn't touch the game for a good 5 years. I only decided to finish the game (including all bosses) recently because I felt confident enough (I had just done another playthrough of each DS3 and DS2 some weeks ago) and knowledgable enough after having watched videos and playthrougs. And since I KNEW what the objectives were, I found the game to be a LOT more enjoyable, personally. In fact, I did another playthrough right after my first one in which I went for only the necessary bosses and finished that one in only 8 hours. It was incredibly fun.
I do agree with your reasons for liking the game but 80% of your negative criticisms were because you are ill informed on why those things are great. I’m not saying anything bad about how you viewed the game because I understand. You don’t go into a game knowing everything about it, and even when you’ve feel you master it there’s more than you thought. The biggest thing I disagree with, you said the story was upfront and told you to the player directly. And that most people won’t go out of there way to figure it out. There’s a TH-cam channel dedicated to the story of this game with over 1.3 million views. And the way the story is told is the best way a story should be told. Look at COD zombies. In WAW and black ops 1 the story was hidden and 99% of players NEVER knew the story and didn’t care, they just wanted to kill zombies. And Easter eggs were hidden and extremely difficult for you to figure out without knowing there is one in the first place let alone the guides youd need to finish them. After bo1 and starting bo2 the story was told to you directly and Easter eggs weren’t Easter eggs at all. They were the game, in order to play you had to do most of the Easter egg steps to progress. That ruined the experience for the die hard fans. If dark souls did that after demons souls no one would give a shit about the story. That’s why I defended the souls games so much, the story is supposed to be difficult. You have to WANT to know more and take the time to understand it.
Hey, thanks for the comment, I really enjoyed reading it and you make some great points! And I do think you're right when you say that there is a story to be found in Dark Souls, and that there's clearly people that want to understand that story. However, as you mentioned in relation how many people didn't try to understand the underlying plot in COD zombies, the story being this difficult to parse is definitely a hurdle for most. There is such a large barrier to entry, the information so disprately presented and so difficult to unearth, that a large portion of the people that play the game are not going to go to those efforts to figure it out. The fact that there are TH-cam channels that go through the monumental effort of compiling the underlying story into a form that is actually understandable for us, and that so many people watch their content to gain that understanding also lends credence to this. People definitely do want to understand the world of Lordran, but it would require far too much time and effort to personally attempt to unearth the story yourself and do all the work that the game asks of youto achieve it, cataloguing hundreds of item descriptions and analyzing hours of character dialogues. As I said, I admire why they chose to present the story/lore in this way, and I can definitely see the inherent appeal it provides. But I also can't ignore how obtuse it makes it. What I'm trying to say is that this method of presenting the story isn't a failure by any means. It elevates the atmosphere of Lordran, to the point that I could almost call it immpecable. But it also makes the actual story that you take part in quite inpenetrable. But thanks again for the thoughtful comment and I'm glad you enjoyed the video! You've certainly given me something to think about, so thank you for that.
Man I wish we could hop in a vc and just talk about the latter half of this video as you have some good and fair points but also just some extremely “hot” takes that make no sense to me, especially where at times you bring up key points of info that directly conflict with your opinions. Regardless love to see more people get into the series, and am looking forward to you potentially engaging with the series further, as some of your criticisms were addressed later in the series, Elden Ring obviously being the culmination.
Really great video, it's very refreshing to hear some new and unique thoughts. A few things about what you had to say for the online features~ I get that to most of us these games are primarily single-player experiences - and, primarily, they _are_ - but they’re *also* always online. It's a misunderstanding to consider the online as some tacked on addition, it’s core to the whole idea of the game. Community and human nature are some of the core themes of Souls games; the feeling that other people have been through here before and left messages to help or trap you, the idea that strangers can come together and help each other out without even uttering a word or stab you in the back just as easily. Even though the entire world seems to be out to kill you, you’re not alone and there are other’s going through the exact same thing. It’s part of the reason so many people have said this game helped them with depression - it’s art, and its the kind of art that you could *really* only get from a game as harsh as this one. And sure, invasions can feel out of place and be unfair. Player messages can troll you or straight up spoil secrets, but the devs didn’t finish the game and trip and fall and _suddenly_ there’s online. Nah, it isn't always done perfectly but the game was built around this stuff. I get that invasions can feel out of place, but the whole point is that time and world itself are collapsing in on each other so different worlds and points in history. I feel that it doesn't make sense to complain that enemies don’t fit with the lore when them not fitting is PART of the lore. This is one of the whole things that even makes Dark Souls special in the first place. The lore and the gameplay are not separate, it’s all part of the same whole. Dark Souls is trying to be more than just gameplay, it’s trying to be an *experience.* It doesn’t do the greatest possible job of that, but still that’s what it’s trying to be. Also I feel like t's kinda unfair to act like there are YT channels, threads, and forums dedicated to explaining and deciphering the lore that most Souls fans love delving into. That stuff is part of the community too, and it wouldn't thrive _so_ much if the players weren't deeply interested in the 'why.' Once again, good work. I enjoyed watching the full thing and you've easily earned a subscriber in me! Looking forward to whatever you do next now.
I really glad you enjoyed the video! And thank you so much for such a thoughtful and detailed comment, it was a joy to read! You make a fantastic point that the online features were definitely always an intended part of the experience, and I think that comes through stronger in the later games, DS3 being the most notable example. There, the online features feel fully realized and are probably closest to what From Software wanted the experience to be like in DS1, and I think that's just down to them learning with each installment. I'm excited to finally play through Elden Ring and see how that game uses all of these earlier attempts as learning material to inform their design choices there. And as far as the story goes, I completely agree that there is a story to be found in the game, a fantastic one at that, but a lot of people will act as though telling the story through item descriptions and vague dialogue that you can never revisit if you accidentally hit the A button, is the best... heck even the ONLY way to tell it. The reason this works is because the atmosphere is so masterfully crafted that you want to learn more, and thankfully some incredible people in the community have taken on the Herculean task of compiling that story into something we can all understand. It definitely works, and I do like that ultimately it is the community that works together to understand the stories behind these games, but I cannot get behind the idea that this is a good way to present them overall. Stories should be able to stand as their own narrative, without the aid of Wiki's or incredibly passionate individuals willing to do untold hours of work on their behalf. Also, as an aside, I would really like to be able to pull apart the world of Lordran myself, and put together the pieces to figure out what happened there, similar to a game like Outer Wilds (not Obsidian Entertainment's Outer Worlds, I know those two get confused a lot). I was incredibly disheartened when I realized that the story was so far beyond my understanding, requiring way more time that I would be able to offer it at this stage in my life, and that my only option was to go watch someone else's compilation of it. I'm so incredibly grateful they went through and did the work that I would be unable to do, but man do I wish it was presented in a way that I could piece it together myself. Again, thank you so much for your comment, it was incredibly detailed and thought-provoking. I really appreciate it. And I'm so glad you enjoyed the video!
I've never heard of Manus being a sore spot on the boss list. It's a fine difficulty spike appropriate for a dlc boss. Admittedly, I never knew there was an item to gimp him, but it's always your choice to use it just like summons
1:08:20 I'm so glad you got this on video of Taurus Demon just jumping off to his death. I had this happen to me during one of my follow up play thru's and I could not stop laughing at how absurd it was.
This is an excellent video. By far the strongest parts are when you talk about the aspects of the game you felt missed the mark, back them up with gameplay examples, and explain how changing them would affect the overall experience for the better, ESPECIALLY the instances when you give your own suggestions on how things could have been different (you should lean into this even more by more thoroughly explaining why you think your suggestions would work). I have close to 600hrs in Dark Souls 1, it's one of if not my favorite game of all time and so youtube recommends me lots of "Big Ol Dark Souls videos" and I give all of them a chance. Most tend to be lazy retrospectives basically reading wiki pages with no actual original critique or analysis, but yours is a cut above. I don't agree with all your opinions, but all of them are argued in good faith and backed up with reasoning. Thank YOU for bringing something fresh to the DS discourse your perspective as a relatively new player was refreshing!
If I could double heart this, I would. Thank you so much for your kind words, and I'm genuinely pleased you enjoyed the video! I'm proud to be able to add even a whisper to the chorus of discourse surrounding this monument of a game. I'll definitely carry your feedback into my next critique as well. Again, thank you.
I actually quit Dark souls the first time when I went straight into pinwheel and the tomb of the giants and realized I was stuck at a bonfire down there LOL.
Lost Izalith was initially going to be a swamp and and have a bunch more enemy types but plans and designs changed a bit and it became lava and they had no time to finish it up. Additionally, From didn't do the Remaster so they had no chance to go back and fix it. Remaster was done by another company and is about as half assed as you can get.
it is just a remaster - making a game work on modern devices and polishing up the textures so that they're not a blurry pixelated mess on higher resolutions... and the studio that bandai namco hired for it (which does only such technical jobs, not the creative tasks) did what they got paid for just fine, it was never meant to be a full blown remake
the funniest thing about Pinwheel is that Lore-Wise he is stronger than Nito, he stole the Rite of Kindling from him leaving him vulnerable and weaker because of him and left him scared in some kind of way then Nito not wanting to confront him again just stayed down in his personal dark hell frustrated. I deffo think they could’ve made Pin a much harder fight with him having more powerful magic and summoning skeletons…… you know since he is a NECROMANCER haha , but i guess Pin forgot the one thing necromancers cant escape from: Mr. Mele Sword
I went through graveyard first, when i eventually got through and made my way back up; i figured the more progress i made the more appreciative i was having that silver serpent ring.
afik the taurus daemon yeeting themself off the bridge is intentional. there are colliders everywhere else to prevent that from happening but not right there. and it was never changed so presumably it was intentional.
Great analysis. I think a proper video game analogy for Dark Souls would be the Prince of Persia sands of time trilogy (especially, Warrior Within), both in terms of its adventure-focused gameplay, and its mechanics. The two games are so similar when you dismantle its elements, that if you were to literally replace the "Souls" mechanic with Prince of Persia's "sands", you'd basically get the same gaming experience. Except that, narratively speaking, Prince of Persia is more straightforward. Thanks for the video again, and best wishes from Iran.
So as I also beat this game just like 2 weeks ago, here's my very short take. I REALLY loved combat and exploration, even though I used magic at times, the flow, the planning, the discovery, I loved it all. But everything else just...dragged it down. Platforming boss? Area without light? Small platforms while being shot at? Invasions when I just want to have humanity? None of them felt like they added or helped the game, they just felt annoying to outright bad depending.
Magic makes everything easier. Even if you're not using it for damage. You can get a weapon buff, tho resin does this. Tho the biggest boon magic gives is a spell called "Cast Light" It's useless for most of the game, but easier to get. You can also get the skull lantern, but this takes up your shield slot.(Which is bad for new players.) Or you can get a sunlight magot, which requires spending 20 humanity, and it takes up your helm slot.(the better option of the two.) or you can just cast a spell, and have a orb of light over your head. Requires 14 int, you get 3 casts of it, and each last for about five mins, but you can get more with the Lingering Dragoncrest ring. But you're only gonna need this in the tomb of giants, and for like one spot in the dlc.
Sunlight Maggot doesn't require spending any Humanity. The shortcut is nice, but only accessible after placing the Lordvessel anyway so if you're already heading down to Lost Izalith at some point you can get two fairly easy bosses out of the way and open the shortcut from the other side, saving the 30 Humanity you have to give for opening the Shortcut slightly early.
@@darkspawntales You can kill that thing through the wall as well (Poison Mist Pyromancy does so easily), or not speak to him in Anor Londo from what I've heard. I kind of like having his gear personally, but there are alternatives to forking over thirty Humanity.
Could not agree more with you on your sentiment that DS is at it's best as an adventure game. Far too many people completely ignore the brilliance of trekking around these worlds, seeing them only as great bosses separated by hallways that must be ran through. I think that kind of mindset misses out on the best aspects of these games. World/story development, and the magic of discovery is peak, particularly in the first half of DS1.
Honestly, magic being OP and the post-Lordvessel content being weak were both big talking points within the community as I recall. Perhaps not as much nowadays, and not as visible to outsiders, but these were very well-known issues back when everyone was playing the game.
Huh didn't know that! Glad I wasn't completely off the mark with those takes XD Like I said, all I really heard about the game when it first came out was what my friends talked about so that mostly passed me by. And I'm gonna add that just saying Magic is OP is underselling it. When you have a magjc focused character, particularly offensive magic, it's like you're playing a completely different game. Nothing wrong with using magic in the game at all obviously, I personally found it incredibly satisfying, it's just strange to me that From Software would include such disprate combat experiences in the same game where there's such an apparent focus on how that combat operates.
Only a quarter through but great video so far. Playing dark souls 1 was a lot to get used to after my parry-heavy introduction (bloodborne). What are your thoughts on dark souls 2 (if youve played it)? Its my favorite world of the main 3 games and i think there is a lot of incredible aspects to it that are, underrated? Overrated now? I suppose its not a hot take anymore. Anyhow, i look forward to finishing this video, great work.
Glad you're enjoying the video! And I did play Dark Souls 2, and enjoyed it a lot! I would put it below Dark Souls 1 and 3 if I were to rank them, but I definitely wouldn't say that DS2 was a bad game at all. I often say that DS2 is a great game, but not a great Dark Souls game, if that makes sense? Absolutely an underrated entry in the series, that gets somewhat piled on by the community from what I've seen, but it does have some flaws that drag it down a bit for me as well. Hope that answered your question, and thanks for the comment! I could definitely see Dark Souls 1 taking a little getting used to if it wasn't the first one you played.
@@PolarBear084 I think that's a completely fair statement! I find that it takes more work and enthusiasm to truly get immersed in the world, but once I did I was hooked. My biggest complaint is how brutal the early game is, and how empty drangleic castle is. It feels lifeless. I think it takes the opposite direction of ds3 where the first 1/3 of the game is overwhelming with exploration options, and I have come to quite like it. DS3's first few areas always leave a bitter taste in my mouth when I replay it, but the later game areas + dlc are all really awesome.
The flaws you describe in the second half of the video is why people were so disappointed with the Remastered edition. There was a prime opportunity for the devs to bring the game's systems up to date, add more fluidity to the combat akin to DS3, bring QOL changes to the interface, properly finish the late-game areas they previously had to rush to meet the deadlines. but it didn't happen, even some notorious bugs were left untouched... now it seems the idea of "an ideal Dark Souls 1" will forever be unexplored.
I agree finishing the late game areas properly would have been amazing. But changing the combat and other fundamental aspects really would have made that release less of a remaster and more of a reimagining. That would've alienated many fans and robbed new players of the original experience.
@@blairfujin because a remaster isn't always just about the graphics. the possibility to enhance the game was there. you just need access to the engine and the source code, which is obviously available to whoever does the remaster. so they could've finished the unfinished areas of the late game at the very least.
@@vivusbrydyr4039 but why would you like a studio that does only technical stuff (they mostly do qa work for aaa games and remasters like this, my cousin actually works in their qa division and according to her, they don't have any designers) do creative work instead of from software? my take is for what it is - an outsourced remaster, not a remake by the same team who wanted to give their game a second chance, it does its job fine I also wouldn't be happy about bluepoint trying to make the last archstone area themselves in the demons' souls remake
@@vivusbrydyr4039 and remaster is just that, making a game playable and presentable on modern hardware, what we used to call hd version, industry just switched to remaster cause the former term doesn't work with ps3/xbox360 games that were in hd resolution to begin with
I am actually toward the end of my first playthrough. The graveyard did turn me back at first and after the first bell, I did see the basement key. By this point I remembered 4 locked doors I wanted through: the one in the tower, the one in the Burg near the midpoint shrine, the one near the Taurus demon that has Havel, and the aqueduct passage. I didn’t have an issue. Didn’t notice the key’s description. And yeah, I was stuck for a short while before the cathedral, but I don’t think it was too bad. Accessing Sif “early” seems off though. I mean, it could have been gold door locked. And the tower to the Four Kings could have prevented your passage… I do agree exploration is the best part of the experience. I did wind up getting to the darkness of the Tomb of Giants right after Pinwheel right after the second bell, since I kept getting murdered at Sen’s Fortress and figured I was underpowered or underequipped. And like a dummy I heard about the nest route back to the Undead Asylum and managed to get the doll, so the moment I saw the painting, I jumped in without realizing I was trapped. And that was rough. In retrospect, Blighttown was not as horrible as people make it out to be. The poison blow darts suck, but the rest is manageable if you take it methodically and don’t roll like a moron and have some mosses stocked. And the Iron Ring. The worst was the thought of going back before you realized that you could exit via the Valley of the Drakes. Otherwise, you feel like you are miles below with no way up but slogging back.
At the 21:00 minute mark when hes talking about Skyrim. I never thought it was to much freedom that stopped most people from finishing the main story of skyrim. I always thought it was how boring the main quest is in Bethesda games. Witcher 3,Cyberpunk even New vegas offer tons of freedom but people love their main quests. I dunno maybe im crazy.
I absolutely agree that exploration is so important to Dark Souls, and I kinda hate how in discussions it so often gets overshadowed by the notion that FromSoft games are instead defined by their tough boss fights. The boss fights are the punction, but it's the level design, item locations, and placement of basic fodder enemies that are the sentences and paragraphs. Speaking of the difficulty, a common turn of phrase people use to describe this genre is, "challenging but fair," however, there's nothing all that fair about the damage output even basic enemies can do or the way they are positioned to ambush and outflank the player, especially not when that player is still new and inexperienced. Although conversely, there's really nothing all that challenging about how sluggish and exploitable the AI is to for an experienced player. My preferred way to describe the game is, "punishing but simple." As for spell casting, yeah, it does sort of break everything about the combat system, but it surprises me that anyone wouldn't already know that, because at least in my experience it is talked about commonly enough, albeit somewhat derisively as being the game's "easy mode". Although speaking of things that are "easy", I think you maybe missed the point when Taurus Demon fell off the ledge. You call it unsatisfying, but personally I find it very satisfying in how it demonstrates that bosses actually play by the same rules as the player. That same spatial awareness and positioning that the player has to be careful of lest they fall to their demise, can likewise be exploited to do the same to the boss. Then again that sorta loops back around to my original point, that I hate when Dark Souls is boiled down to just being a game with "hard" bosses, as if the only thing that mattered was the player proving their own skill against a seemingly insurmountable foe, when the real test is the ability to observe, improvise, and where possible, even think outside the box to find alternative solutions. That said, the situation with the dragon is obviously not at all intentional, and a bug I've never even seen before. Then again, I've also only ever played the Prepare to Die edition, never the remaster. Back to observational challenges though, Nito and his skeletons should be an absolutely fitting capstone to the mechanics faced to reach him, as the necromancers in the Catacombs do the exact same thing, endlessly revving the nearby skeletons unless the player uses holy damage. Nito is a final test who becomes easier when the player actually learns the lesson the preceding level was trying to teach. Likewise, you seem to be missing the point with Manus as well, which I find odd after you had previously held up exploration as such an important pillar of the game. The silver pendant isn't some lazy copout FromSoft included because they couldn't be bothered to properly balance a boss. Rather the boss is deliberately imbalanced to encourage and reward exploration with the solution. I also think you aren't quite looking at NPC invaders the right way either, because they aren't just placed randomly. For most of them the equipment they drop actually explains who they are and why they are encounter in specific locations. They very much are just as much part of the curated and intentional experience as any other enemy, albeit also an optional escalation in difficult tied to being good at the game, not dying and thus preserving the humanity which triggers them to appear. But moving onto the actual multiplayer features, you hit the nail on the head when you referred to it as something which builds a sense of community, because that's exactly what it's there for. It's all inspired by an incident Miyazaki had of being stuck driving in a snowstorm, where one by one the drives of each car helped push each other up and over a hill, but lest he get stuck in the snow again, he couldn't stop to thank these helpful strangers. The entire point is that you aren't really meant to figure everything out on your own, nor face every challenge alone. That's why the co-op works the way it does, that's why players can leave each other helpful messages. It's about fostering that feeling of strangers all struggling together to overcome a shared adversity, because after his experience that was what stuck with Miyazaki, how if he met those people from the snowstorm under other circumstances maybe they could have been friends... or maybe they'd have been enemies (hence also invaders). And on the final point about direction though the game, it's not like there is only a single path into Blighttown and the bell bellow. You mention yourself that before being pointed in the direction of using the basement key, you had considered going into Darkroot Garden. A location which connects to the Valay of Drakes, which in turn connects to a backdoor tunnel that leads down into Blight Town. It might have been more circuitous route, but you'd have it would have still gotten you where you needed to be. There is no single intentional path, because the most important point of the game, that you strongly seem to have forgotten halfway through making this video, is to EXPLORE. Even if you had gone the "wrong" way through the graveyard and into the Catacombs, there is still a reward to be gained in the Rite of Kindling. Just because you rarely saw fit to enhance Bonfires past 10 estus, doesn't mean the ability to do so is useless. Although seeing as you seem to of fallen into the trap of judging the game by how "satisfying" the bosses are to overcome, fighting Pinwheel at that earlier stage of the game can actually be a moderately challenging fight. Although admittedly, there probably should have been some kind of shortcut back out of the Tomb of the Giants, rather than the only option being a slow climb. ... Oh, and one more thing. At multiple points you say that death is so punishing, but it really isn't. Yes, the player drops all their souls, but they have a chance to recover them, and yes, if they die again before they can do that the souls are lost forever, but the player can always kill more enemies to get more souls. It's also not like there is any reason to horde souls. They can always be exchanged for level at any bonfire, and so a player really only ever has themself to blame if the die while carrying a large number of souls.
Yup. Dark souls 1. My first real run. Got all the way down past the catacombs until the end at the orange gate. I got back up but my god. Ill nevwe forget that nightmare. Im suprised i didnt quit/hallow
Regarding taking the wrong path at ~1:40:00... I got to the very end of Ash Lake before realizing I would have to drag myself back up the Great Hollow because I hadn't gotten the Lordvessel yet ("Thanks, Reddit. What the hell is a Lordvessel?"). It was a moment of deep disappointment, but I did it, and I felt proud. This was on probably my third attempt after getting overwhelmed by the game a couple times and needing a months-long break. Not a "good" experience, but from what I've seen online a fairly common one, and these are my favorite games by far now.
I figured out how to easily get through the bonewheel skeletons. Poise through it (i used the havel set) they just get stuck on you and you can swing away. Also as an old MMORPG player id say dark souls is the opposite in that you can always defeat your foe with what you have you just arent trying hard enough. In mmorpgs if you are underleveled you will die due to numbers.
Best level design of all time! So much better than Elden Ring. This is simply undeniable, I don’t know about Sekiro as that’s the only Soulsborne I haven’t played. But I’d be surprised if it has better level design than DS1. It’s near perfect
Really great video! I get your critiques but I was lucky on my first playthrough I had a pal who was able to offer some tips and I did just look up some stuff. But was genuinely one of my favourite video game experiences
1:38:10 I did a very similar thing on my first playthrough. New-Londo ruins was the first area I went to after the asylum. I died over 200 times to the ghosts, thinking that this was simply how the game was meant to be played and part of what earned it's infamous 'difficult' reputation Edit: I did quit, for around about 3 months. I came back and headed the right way, though I later got lost in the Catacombs, the depths, Blighttown (even heading to the very bottom bonfire in the great hollow), Anor Londo, The Duke's Archives and New-Londo ruins again I've since completed the game many, many times, but that first playthrough was unlike anything else, barring maybe fear & hunger 1 I struggled with many of the bosses, but found navigation the hardest part of my first playthrough by FAR
I didn't get stuck on the graveyard onwards, but I did get frustrated with the big painting in anor londo. I could see right away that it was important, but the steps required to make it usable are so eldritch that only someone using a guide or chat can actually access it. To a lesser degree fighting Black Kalameet as well - I didn't meet Gough until my 3rd playthrough
Your complaint about Manus' black circle forcing you to run close, I assumed that it was developer intention to stop mages from just standing back and sniping. You have to stay engaged with the boss BECAUSE he can force you to move
When I first played the game I did become unsure of what to do at a couple points and looked up a let's play. But I'm not sure which, it may have been the basement key but I also struggled with the combat until I realised early enemies were stunned by hitting a shield Also I took a few restarts to finally finish it, ending my first successful playthrough with a strength/faith build
Amazing video! This is my second favourite game of all time, but I agree that it has it's flaws. You're really good at taking a neutral stance when talking about flaws. I hope to see you review the other soulsborne games as well. Keep up the great work
The first time I tried to play DSR (I think it was 2020), I got stuck after the first bell. I did find the Capra demon and was just totally lost after that, spending several hours running around trying to figure out where to go. I gave up for two years and came back to it with a guide. Funnily enough, I couldn't find the graveyard when it came to that point either, even with the knowledge that winding up there was a common mistake by new players. When I started DS3, I decided to only use a guide to figure out the area to go to if I got stuck. But frankly haven't needed to use it much (I'm about 70% done and have hit a brick wall in Ariandel with the knights, I'm in parry bootcamp and might need to go do some other stuff first, I still have one main boss to do before the final one and some other side stuff). One thing that kind of sucks about playing these so late is that a lot is spoiled and you can't undo that. Knowing this before Elden Ring came out, I have made a huge effort to completely avoid anything but news before playing it. I played a few hours on launch, but wanted to go back and play the DS series first... which became just DS and DS3 after a few hours of pure rage in Scholars (I found out later that SotFS is basically hardcore mode and not a remaster and I have since picked up normal DS2 on sale and may go back and try that... or not, either way, I consider it a donation to FromSoft).
years and years of thought and discussion put into this game gives me the benefit of understanding why certain things that you claim didnt make sense like NPC Invaders actually perfectly slot into the story, so i dont want to rag too hard on that. Instead I just want to say that your experience of this game seems MASSIVELY influenced by the thoughts and opinions of the pop culture that surrounds it, and there were multiple times where the game itself contradicted its own reputation and you seemed immensely frustrated by those "shortcomings". Like the commentary on Manus's magic attacks, where you yourself admitted that there was actually a way of avoiding the attack without the item, and that the item also allowed you to dodge the attack, but you still criticized the attack for being too punishing because.... using any of the intended methods to dodge it was "cheesing" it??? its not enough that there are multiple ways to avoid the attack, the fact that you cant roll through it contradicts your belief that rolling and blocking are the only intended ways to dodge attacks, a belief i have no doubt is a result of your interactions with people parroting popular sentiments about the game i can also see this pop culture influence on your discussions of Dark Souls 2 - how you take for granted that the viewer already "knows" that the hitboxes and enemy placement of that game is bad, so you repeated those sentiments without giving it a second thought. there are actually people who have painstakingly examined every single hitbox by every enemy in that game, and the results of that were that the hitboxes in Dark Souls 2 largely resemble those from Dark Souls 1, but that Adaptability giving the player less i-frames made it so they were more likely to get clipped by attacks and grabs that they could otherwise easily dodge if they had the same amount of i-frames as in Dark Souls 1. The idea that the game's hitboxes are notoriously bad is just an idea that stuck due to the experiences of players on week 1 of the game's release when they had no idea about Adaptability. Anyways, i think youre really going to love Dark Souls 3. That game has exactly everything you want out of this series.
i agree about dark souls being an adventure game. that's actually what made me love it so much. i hadn't even heard of it back when my friend had me try it for the first time in 2015. without the perspective of everyone else saying how hard it was, i really didn't even take note of the difficulty. it didn't really feel like a game that was too hard or anything, just one that would take some getting used to. no, the thing that really stood out to me was the level design. it felt like a 3D zelda game where the combat wasn't completely brain dead, and i loved it. keep in mind that breath of the wild didn't exist yet so zelda combat was basically just waiting for an enemy to reveal its (typically obvious) weak spot, then spamming attack when it does.
It’s a survivor adventure combat game. The difficulty in DS1 is not about the bosses but the minute to minute feeling of being a fly in the world of dragons through clever QOL adjustments and intentionally obscure game mechanics like 4 types of upgrade materials. It embraces complexity at the risk of turning away players. It makes me feel like the world is not catered for me personally which is something I can’t say for their later games.
One of my only disagreements so far is that magic being overpowered is somehow a negative. I think it exists for a reason and shows a lot how flexible these games actually are. If you need the assistance of magic, do it because the game wants you to beat it no matter what. You have an insane amount of options in these games especially er and ds2 and 3 that if it helps, do it.
You're wrong about Dark Souls letting you visit every scenery you set your eyes upon. There are many backdrops that fall out of bounds. The ones that come to mind are 1. The Undead Burg -looking town below Firelink. 2. The forests surrounding Sen's Fortress. 3. The River in Darkroot Garden. 4. The mountain ranges around the Undead Asylum. 5. The mountain ranges around the Painted World. There may be more too, but those are the ones I can think of.
I was SO infuriated by first ~5min of the video. It have nothing to do with video itself, or with author. I just can't stand how perspective of this series changed with time. "I heard this game was about difficulty..." "Difficulty was defining trait of this series for years... " "My friends told me how difficult it was..." "I read countless stories how people bwas broken by bosses..." This is something i was afraid from the very beginning, after first memes with Skyrim vs Dark Souls. This games never was ABOUT difficulty. (Illusion of) difficulty was artistic decision, and tool for a very specific purpose. EVERYTHING ELSE was important, and difficulty just amplified everything else and made it special.
Some of your problems regarding exploration are solved through the online message system. You'd know you can and should go on top of the Anor Londo ledge thing to progress from other people trying to help you. You'd know you shouldn't jump into the abyss (even after completely missing all the dialogue regarding it) through messages like "need covenant" or "need item". Time in Lordran is convoluted. Legends appear and disappear left and right, and you are not meant to undertake this journey alone. Chat fulfilled that role for you though, so you didn't exactly play the game in an unintended way. Admittedly, the catacombs path is a problem, but the darkness after pinwheel is a huge deterrent for early levels, so the "strong enemy, turn back" rule still applies.
I actually don't have a problem with Manus's dark circle attack. He stands still, presenting a huge opening for you to rush in and attack, and you're rewarded by being able to hit him and avoid the damage. You're approaching this fight in a single way and then confused as to why it's not always going to work, and that's because the devs wanted you to approach it differently. It's meant to be the true final boss of the game, and so he presents you with an alternate challenge that has a consistent punish for either you or him, depending on whether or not you figure it out.
I never made it all the way to Nito's molten cheese wall early, but I definitely did bash my head against the skeletons for a while, thinking "this must be the incredible difficulty everybody talks about". In fact, I've had many moments in later From games where I'd NOT turn back from an insurmountable enemy, only to later find out I had missed a crucial piece of info or item that would have made it much easier. I don't like this phenomenon at all, but it's also not really the game's fault, but more a result of the (in my opinion misguided) discourse around the series. The difficulty is THE one thing overshadowing everything else when this series gets talked about, when it can be so much more than that. As an aside, the idea that the skeletons are probably meant to convey, is that if some enemy is too hard, try somewhere else. Something like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy have used to guide their players. In those games that wipes you in a few hits is a clear message that you are wrong here, but Dark Souls, thanks to the stupid "prepare to die" marketing can't convey that message as clearly as it wants to. I also think it scares off people who would actually enjoy the games and breeds some very unhealthy discourse, but I could rant endlessly about this and its community, so I'd rather not. I love the first Dark Souls btw, which might not be clear from the above. The exploration and the looping world design is my favorite thing about itr, with the difficulty being largely an afterthought.
imo they should've either ditched the golden fog walls entirely and given you a "primal bonfire" like DS2 that just teleports you back to firelink at every lord soul, or just put the golden fog wall at the doorway just before the catacombs opens up, not in the entrance to the second area in tomb of giants, it is unreasonable to punish players with having to climb out of the tomb of giants without a light source, where if you die to a bonewheel, or at any point before reaching basically the top of the catacombs, you have to climb out of tomb of giants again (assuming you haven't found vamos's bonfire, or are playing the non-remaster where he doesn't even have a bonfire) that is just a ridiculously punishing consequence for the crime of exploration, can you imagine being cursed, misremembering what the dialogue said about a healer in new londo, and trying to find the cure in the catacombs only to get stuck in the tomb of the giants while still cursed, like just think about that for a second, it's something the game just lets you stumble into, i would not fault anyone for quitting the game at that point, and that just sucks
Wow, that is a lot. Glad to see the project finally completed. Gave me a few new things to think about with the way I view Dark Souls as a whole and what I compare it to (mostly Monster Hunter). Agree on some things and totally disagree on a lot of other points. I think the biggest takeaway from it though is what actually is Dark Souls? It became such an icon that it is basically its own genre of game but because of that it can become hard to really break it down to something more basic. You classified it as an Action/Adventure game where as I mostly classify it in my head as an Action/RPG. It can be more than either or, however what you perceive to be the primary components of the game really change how you feel about it. That major flaw you mentioned with the lore and story of the game and its characters are the primary reason why I consider it to be an RPG more than an Adventure game because you can still have a good RPG without a great story but a great Adventure game without a great story? I've never seen that before. For me Adventure games are games that are driven by the story and once you have gotten to the conclusion of that story that driving force is gone, I've played a lot of games where I beat the game or main story and I just never go back and play it again because I know the story, I know everything that is going to happen. There isn't anything driving me forward to look for answers, no more mysteries to solve or hard decisions I'm waiting for characters to make. You can play through the entirety of Dark Souls and never even know that there are multiple paths that characters can take. Maybe you kill the guy at firelink, never save lautrec and thus nothing ever happens to the fire keeper, maybe you never interact with the other characters or save them to even know that they have stories or move to different areas as you progress through the game.
Thanks mate, I'm glad you enjoyed it! I certainly agree that the expectations that come with a genre can effect how successful you think the game was with respect to those expectations, but Dark Souls definitely uses RPG elements on top of the Action-Adventure aspects too. And I would disagree with your statement that you can't have a good Adventure game without a good story. I've played a few that fit that description pretty well. Whether it's a game where the story isn't very engaging like the Legend of Zelda, or if it's a basically impenetrable story like in the Myst series, these games still nail their atmosphere so well that the story almost isn't needed. Actually, Journey is another good example of this imo, where the world building and atmosphere is so strong, that it's kinda all you need to keep you playing. Thanks for watching it mate, glad you got something out of it!
In every game every save file is unavoidably a its own timeline, its own alternate reality -- possibly very similar, possibly completely different with a totally different dragonborn, pair of source hunters, family of sims, or even whole different world to mine. Like many other things usually written off as just being a game, Dark Souls works this into the lore with its stagnant and convoluted multi-dimensional time and parallel worlds, mixing in the rationale for its multiplayer aspects.
Finally someone mentioned the anor Londo new player issue of not figuring out to walk on the pillar that looks like you'll slide right off the hit box. That happened to me on my first playthrough, I was so confused on were to go in anor Londo till I either saw a player message or searched it up. Good video but never heard anyone complain that online messages are "spoilers" I really like the dev messages and other players helping you out cause like you said there's a lot of lack of guidance n confusion but the messages can help u with that. Sadly can't play online if I'm on PC to many hackers
Great Video! Really enjoyed it! I often describe Dark Souls 1 as a flawed masterpiece and felt you captured that sentiment to a tee. Well earned sub from me, look forward to more videos! EDIT: To answer your request for info on reaching a yellow fog wall. I first encountered it in the Demon Ruins as assumed that was the way to go after Quelaag. Thankfully not as punishing a run back as Tomb of the Giants haha!
So you think the messages are handholding but want to be told exactly where to go? Don’t really see your point with that one but definitely agree with a lot of your issues in the second act of the game haha
i also started playing ds1 way late too (during covid) and i put in sooo many hours in since that i was almost gonna shit on you for being dumb until i realized that i made many of the same mistakes you did but forgot because i got so gud lmao, great vid!
Only had true fun with DS1 after 10 years and after DS3 Bloodborne and Elden Ring specially because it was simpler and less convoluted, same can be said about demon souls for me.
My very first play through ended after Bell Gargoyles for the exact reason you detailed. I played the game near release day as well so there wasn’t much in the way of online forums to help. I absolutely love Dark Souls, but can’t deny that is a horrible part of the game without any guidance.
an elevator would have fixed everything wrong with the Catacombs/Tomb of the Giants path. I spent so much time down there because I heard the great scythe was a good weapon, and working back up is so fucking miserable. I think the unintuitive progression path after the Gargoyles is unfortunately an essential part of playing Dark Souls, and developing an understanding of what Fromsoft expects from you. It's easy to gloss over the key to the lower burg, and when someone tells you the actual path (either intuiting it based on player messages, or just having a friend tell you, which I sincerely believe are the "intended solutions") you know from then on to pay more attention to what items you pick up. As far as magic being overpowered goes, I always felt like that was their serendipitous solution for an easy mode. Like other "easy mode" mechanics like player summons or bonfire kindling, it's entirely contingent on player choice to take full advantage of. It's not particularly elegant, since you only find out it's extremely powerful after deciding to build around it, and if you're having trouble with a melee build you effectively need to start a new game to make full use of it. Good video : )
You've very accurately discerned problematic areas, but you're coming to the game with the wrong expectations. Dark Souls isn't about that feeling of accomplishment after beating a boss. It's about the communal effort to beat the game. The sense of community is more tangible at the launch, rather than a decade later when you're mostly only going to encounter invaders using twink builds. Unfortunately, the marketing of Prepare to Die didn't help with that, and the graveyard is actually a very common player quit point. Many of the online mechanics are recycled from Demon's Souls, where they make much more sense thematically. They were carried over to the later games because it was the experience Fromsoft wanted to keep making. Unfortunately, this iterative process with how they design their games has made them become somewhat change blind. A good example would be the invasion system, which has virtually no reason to exist in Elden Ring, a game with no tangible rewards for invading other than to troll inexperienced players. All the tools that create the experiences Fromsoft wants the players to have are there, but there's no reason to engage with any of them.
I'm surprisingly not seeing this is the comments so I'll leave this myself. Your issues with Capra Demon and dodging Manus's magic both have a shared solution. Know when to drop your lock on. In both circumstances this is hurting way more than it's helping. In Capra's arena its limiting your movements more in an already restricted space. In the Manus fights when he casts the ring you can turn to face the ring and roll forward through it much more consistently than trying to back roll into something you can't see. Lock on can be a strong tool when it is helpful but leaning on it all the time is a detriment to your performance.
Yeah, that's a great point! Very much has that feeling of slowly peeling away at this larger world and discovering hidden areas and regions. 100% agree!
I mean this politely and constructively, but your cadence is a bit too slow for me. I liked it a lot better at 1.25 speed, though if it was closer to 1.2 that would be best I think. Good video though!
Hey thanks for the feedback! Apologies the voice over was a little too slow for you. I think I was deliberately trying to be measured in my delivery because I have a tendancy to talk fast when I'm passionately explaining my thoughts on something, so there's a good chance I over corrected. I'm glad you were able to make it work by speeding it up in the TH-cam player though, and that you enjoyed the video! I'll try to work on my cadence for the next review for sure!
Oh yeah I totally get that, I watched a video recently on demons souls where the cadence was too fast, it’s a difficult balance I think. Usually when I watch videos like this I try to think of constructive feedback on the video instead of focusing entirely on the game itself. I think feedback on video essays is important and sometimes people focus on assertions people make and aren't aware of all the effort and thought behind the whole thing.
also i think the "you were taken by the abyss" text WAS supposed to appear when you died while dropping into the 4 kings, but there's some bug in the code where the game treats it as fall damage because they wanted there to be a kill plane there so that you wouldn't get spoiled on the boss fight before you were actually able to fight them. it's silly to even need the ring without it being elaborated by anyone in the game, it would make more sense if the abyss just did constant damage or something. four kings and the covenant of artorias is DS1's version of DS2's "you need to burn the metal windmill to drain the poison from the boss room" of earthen peak and the medusa lady, or DS3's greirat getting killed in his trip to irithyll, like realistically there's just no way to know, you're probably not doing it without a guide. i think the games were 100% made with internet guides taken into account, they wanted it to be a communal experience for us, the proverbial "single player multiplayer game" similar to how pokemon was when we were kids, they wanted people to get stuck and ask their friends so they could have more people tapping into the community aspect and sharing the experience with their friends, because ain't no way they're expecting a grown man with a 9-5 job to be spending dozens of hours reading item descriptions until he figures out the one obscure item that lets him survive an otherwise lethal fall, after just intuiting that a mandatory boss fight is down there because of the fog gate, people talk about reaching the painted world being contrived, but at least crestfallen warrior tells you about the bird carrying someone, you came here on a bird, you can see the bird's nest, you can see the path to get there, and then again there's a whole room where everyone is called a "painting guardian" and there's a giant painting they're guarding, it's reasonable to not have been back to the asylum by that point, but even then, you know the painting is there when you get the doll and read about a "cold and lonely painted world", this must be the key, that's 100% reasonable for someone to find that organically. or even the DLC, people think that's obscure, there's a giant blue golem sitting in the corner on time out in the duke's archives, it's not particularly subtle, maybe freeing dusk is a little subtle? but again, if you turn your camera to see what part of the lake is walkable, it's pretty clear that there's a path going to the back, it's totally reasonable for someone to find the DLC by themselves. but the ring dropped by the dog in darkeoot garden, it was his covenant with the abyss, that must stop me from dying to this lethal drop, how does that even make sense, 100% of people were either told about it or just googled it. not cool to have a mandatory boss hidden behind a random lock and key that bear very little outward relation to each other
I feel like a lot of your criticisms come from a personal preference, which you do state at some points. This mostly is about your opinions on the multi-player features, but i think the fact that ghosts, bloodstains, and messages are virtually unchanged to this day and are to many people (myself included) a fundamental part of the world, indicates that they are a good part of the game, and you "getting distracted" by ghosts is much more of a personal issue, and that is why offline mode is great. If you dont want the online features, they are optional, and very easy to turn off. To use those systems which are almost universally loved (at least in my experience, i have never heard anyone else voice the same opinion of dislike for them) as a criticism of the game feels more like a nitpick from a preference stance, not a game criticism. Overall i liked the video a lot, but it definitely does feel like a video from the side of someone who is on the periphery of the community yelling into the center, as most of what i agree with has been hashed out well before now by others, and a lot of your unique takes i would consider to fall under the "hot takes" category
This feels to me like a classic case of someone trying to bend the game after their will instead of actually adjusting yourself to it instead. You don't notice how the window is open in Anor Londo because you don't look, your own personal expectations are blatant in this critique as your abhorrently subjective opinion about what's flawed and what isn't is exclusively about what you personally like better. About online elements: again your own personal opinion about what you believe is their reasoning. They are all explained in-game with reasons, so the fact that you state that these mechanics don't play to the game's strength is nothing but a personal opinion out of ignorance. It's like you don't know anything about the lore, yet feel like you have a firm grasp of what's good and bad. You explain everything you don't like as artificial difficulty or flawed (without reasoning). About the manus fight: Cheesing a boss mechanic is not the same as avoiding damage by utilizing openings in their attack hitboxes, what are you on about? Do you think having a counter-mechanic AS WELL AS a way to avoid the dmg without it is them "phoning it in"?
Also I realized I came off as quite crass in this comment, your video obviously took a lot of work and you make a lot of interesting points. Hope I didn't come off as too mean-spirited. Keep up the good work!
I really do think your argument of "I got backseated and was fine, but this game is so horrible for the people who didn't get backseated (but would presumably not have played any differently than I have, ensured by the vague live-fed approval of my chat at any given point), I'm _sure_ they exist!" holds exactly zero water. Yes, Dark Souls has a horrible and misleading reputation of _just being difficult_. Yes, I'm also sure that people exist who soldiered on all the way to the bottom of Tomb just to be told "no". But I think you _vastly_ overestimate how many people did that, based on your assumption that world design and lore are things to be discarded by default, and looked at at your leisure when you want some light distraction. Same thing with Artorias' grave and the abyss ring, and same with Nito and divine damage. Most people who play Dark Souls do not have chat to guide them, but they have bloodstains, ghosts, messages of questionable trustworthiness, and the ability and willingness to extrapolate a bit from what NPCs literally tell you. Magic being OP is a tired trope in the Dark Souls 1 discussion space at this point and you, like many, many before you, have fallen into the same trap, as you tried to gauge the difficulty of a first-time magic playthrough on a second attempt through the game. Already knowing what timings are safe, what enemies can leap or are stuck in place for a while even when they have freedom to act as they wish, and most importantly, how much progress you have made towards the next bonfire compared to the resources you have expended. If you have all that knowledge, any of the Black Knight weapons will carry you just as hard as magic does, with no real downside or even resource restriction other than estus, which is easily mitigated by the now suddenly plentiful humanity since you know where to find it and into which bonfires you want to invest. I'd recommend watching a blind magic playthrough on youtube for context, but the pervasiveness of "magic op, don't play that" has made them a rare sight. I can point you to ArachCobra for a PTDE playthrough though the quality is kinda shit, or to CarlPlaying42 for a much more recent livestream playthrough of Remastered. I really wanted to like this critique based on some things you bring up in the first half that I hadn't seen in this light before, and I really do try to be open to criticism even if this comment definitely makes it seem otherwise, but honestly, the second half is less meaningful critique and more airing your immediate frustrations with your playthrough. "I refused to interact with Nito's boss mechanic even after understanding what it is, and even after the game tried its hardest to tell me to reconsider without outright making it impossible", truly, the game that you praise for not being entirely linear is at fault here.
Nah man scripted invasions only on ng+ is not a good idea. I'm definitely down for more invasions in NG+, hence DS2 ng+. For so many reasons. It's a fundamental part of the mechanics and lore of the game. Especially if you're someone in a more remote or poorer part of the world trying to get the full dark souls experience. You have to remember the context and time this game was released, it's necessary to understand anything your friend might call a work of art. It definitely has its flaws but the vision and execution is what people nowadays call art. There're so many fair criticisms for Dark Souls but so many of your points here don't touch on them. Not to mention how the community has changed. Seriously, you might as well just find a Van Gough or something and talk about what they could have done better.
I will never not watch a 2 hour dark souls video
Was on discord with my friend: "Oh another 2 hours dark souls critique, well I know what I'm falling asleep to"
My first thought was literally “oh of course, ANOTHER long-form Dark Souls video essay” 😂
It’s wild just how valuable the game (and series) has proven to be for content creators
Same lol
Yup.
Same Bröther
I did the Tomb of the Giants thing on my first playthrough. Quite the realization when I reached the bottom, but I'll never forget how good it felt to reach the top again
Dark Souls is a old now as Ocarina of Time was when Dark Souls released.
That is mind blowing. And kind of scary. Time goes by in the blink of an eye.
As far as your complaints about the Abyss traversal, this is one of the major issues I have with people playing games while streaming. They aren't paying attention to the details of the game as much as they would be if they were playing without streaming and being entirely engulfed in the world and the clues it has. 1. Talking to Ingward in the New Londo ruins explains that in order to traverse the abyss, you must find artorias as he was an abyss walker. 2. Talking to Andre lets you know where the grave of artorias lies (the woods). And the ring itself states that it is a ring that allows traversal of the abyss. The game gives you numerous clues before you get to the abyss fog wall, but you have to be alert enough to find it and digest what the game is telling you. Lastly, The crestfallen warrior explicitly says that the 2nd bell is far below in a swamp. If you don't take the time to exhaust your options as far as paths to take, then of course you will waste time fighting enemies way tougher(catacombs, tomb of the giants) and then waste more time trying to navigate all the way to the top. If you don't take time to invest into reading item descriptions and exhausting NPC dialog, then yes, that is what happens.
My issue was for the abyss is that i misclicked a button by mistake and it skipped the hint of needing one of the items. Due to this i was just kinda fucked unless i googled it
Agree 100% fucking pay attention and you, shockingly enough, will figure it out.
I disagree, A first playthrough of Dark Souls isn't hampered by NPC invaders, that IS a part of every playthrough (if you're playing in human form). It's a part of the game, it fits with the lore, It gives us more cool items and armor to use, more characters to speculate and wonder about, and adds to the game in lots of way. Respectfully I disagree but even so like this video a lot, the more long form Dark Souls content the better in my opinion lol
Thanks so much for the thoughtful comment! And you make a great point that everyone that plays the game will interact with NPC invaders, so from that perspective they are as much a part of the game as summoning, bonfires, and boss fights. Honestly if they just removed the red filter and didn't have them spawn out of the ground I'd be happier with them. I really enjoyed the optional challenge they offer, and the unique weapons and armour you get are definitely not a detriment by any measure.
I guess my problem was that I could never get past their visual effects, they make them appear very much "not of this world", and while that's definitely intentional, it also feels at odds with the rest of the enemies in the game. Every other enemy comes across as a real person or creature that inhabited the world long before you arrived, as though you're seeing the unfortunate end to a story you never heard.
If the NPC invaders were a bit less spectral looking, or perhaps if you got the opportunity to talk to their in-world counterparts at other points in the game like you can with Marvelous Chester for example, it would help with that. Invaders are basically from parallel worlds right? So you could even have hollow/weaker versions of these invaders, or the corpses of their doppelgängers, in the world to find. I feel like that would go a long way to help make them feel more "real" as it were. Obviously this is my opinion, but as they appear currently, they are out of place in the game and I think that's what makes them feel like extra content, if that makes sense?
But again, thanks so much for the thoughtful comment, I'm always down to get into some respectful disagreements, and thanks so much for your kind words as well. I'm glad you like the video!
@@PolarBear084 definitely. I wish they would've done something with the NPCs around hollowing, our character can look "hollow' but not actually BE hollow, and yet the NPCs go from looking perfect (nice skin, no hollow features) to all of a sudden hollow, a la crestfallen warrior, laurentius, etc etc. would've been cool to see some NPCs gain the "hollow look" before actually hollowing and then get a hold of some humanity and restore their appearance so that it seemed more a realistic part of the world, rather than just something the player character did. As for NPC invaders, I can understand the color effects taking away from the immersion, the lore around invaders and summoning was kinda weak to begin with. Solaire is in our world by the Hellkite drake, but then when we summon him he has the appearance of a summon, so if he is from another universe why is he also "normal" at times in our universe? Why isn't he always golden? Lots of holes in DS lore it seems haha keep up the great work
How refreshing to see people disagreeing yet being respectful with eachother in the internet nowadays.
@exposingpowerfullieslivest5082 He isn't always golden because time does not flow in one direction in Lordran. When we summon him he is coming from a different timespace. When he is not golden, our times are aligned. Some characters are always aligned throughout time, others are never aligned, and lastly, some are both.
@@PolarBear084npc invaders have been different colors since demons souls and it is explained in lore in both series. In bloodborne the invaders are not different colors because it doesn't fit in with the lore. Whilst I understand "immersion" is a thing that some may complain about/strive towards there's a bit of an issue here. Is a glowing person more immersion breaking than your character being unable to crawl over tiny walls? How about being able to ninja flip while wearing Havel's armor?
This is lazy criticism.
Also, do you /really/ think the necessity of reading items in video game is grounds for saying the worldbuilding just "isn't there for most players"? You need some kind of Lord of The Rings voice over for every bit of lore for you to care?
Great video. My one comment on the criticism section is that although the series ended up leaning into the difficulty aspect, I think that combat was initially designed just to enhance what is at its heart an easy exploration game by providing tension. Most of the time during exploration you don't end up dying because you ran out of flasks but because you did something greedy like try to fight 4v1 or you got knocked off a ledge. This is also why a lot of the things that trivialize the bosses that you had a problem with exist. Bosses jumping off platforms, the amulet negating Manus, elemental weaknesses trivializing bosses, and summoning players or npcs to double team bosses all exist to make sure that bosses are capstones to an area and never really risk being an impediment to the exploration.
And now we're stuck with boss fights in flat empty square rooms where the boss weaponzies their seizure
@@boshwa20is that a dig towards covetous demon? I would think no since the connotation of "now" made me think you were referring to the most recent title i.e. elden ring.
But I guess you could be separating the two groups into "DS1" and "everygame after" (br fromsoft obv).
Or were you referring to Golden Hippopotamus?
I was one of the unfortunate souls who went down to the tomb of giants before killing Fatman and Slym. Seeing there was no way through was fucking soul crushing and realization that I have to make my way back up where I fought through hell and struggled with was miserable. However, I think it helped me understand exploring in that game or fromsoft games in general. It helped me keep a mental note of paths I come across, if I saw a path that looked like it was off the beaten path, I'd memorize where it was and tell myself to come back to this spot when I finished the route I was currently on. It's definitely easy to get lost in that game on your first playthrough but I also feel like in hindsight there's quite a bit of handholding on where to go, like reading a description of the key you just got or seeing that 2 second cutscene of some gate opening up in some random place that you might've seen sometime in your journey. With all that being said though, you've done an amazing job with this video and I'm always excited to see what you've got cooking up in the future.
You make a fantastic point. Ending up struggling through one of those long detours definitely shows you what to look for in the future for signs you might be heading in the wrong direction.
If you can make it through the despair you do learn alot from it, and you're probably more than skillful enough at that point to tackle the areas of the game you missed.
But also, that climb back out of the Tomb is utterly hellish. I think it took me a solid 2 hours to finally claw my way back out of there during that playthrough.
And I'm really glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for the kind words mate
Also if you go to the Catacombs first and struggle, but then meet Andre and talk to him, then later find the Moonlight Butterfly Andre lets you know how to best the skeletons of the Catacombs
You got a unique experience and understood the teachings of zerthimon, bravo
A 2 hour Dark Souls critique? Let's goooo
Good video! I disagree with the Manus take though. If I hear you correctly the only issues you have is the magic usage and the pendant. I found dodging the magic to be difficult but more than possible, and running inwards not to be cheese but aggressive and keep me in the following melee. As far as the pendant, for myself and seeing others its not a stop button on the magic. It still requires timing, especially on multi attacks, and having to swap between it and your flask on the fly gave management of healing and defense that I enjoyed personally. All in all I think the magic flows to be a new element that sits well with Manus and adds new dynamics to the fight.
Hey thanks for your comment, I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
You make a good point that running towards Manus for the Dark Circle attack is a consistent way to avoid it, and it does incentivise you to keep up the offensive going, which definitely makes sense for how frenetic and fast paced the fight is already.
I do feel like, visually at least, it seems like you should be able to roll through the circle attack as it closes in, and I think not being able to do that consistently is what frustrated me about it. Running at a boss to avoid an attack does feel a little strange too, and not being able to roll or position yourself in a way that the bolts pass by you is a shame.
But you're 100% right that the pendant requires timing to use correctly, so it's not an instant silver bullet as it were. And his other two magic attacks are great, and add a lot to the fight for sure. I do love Manus as a boss overall, definitely in my top 5 I'd say.
I didn't even realize during my first play through (also latecomer, 2017, but went in blind) that the second half of the game was considered rough and unfinished. I loved every second of it. I did think the dragon butts in Lost Izalith were stupid but other than that, I thought it was amazing and I still knew exactly where I was in the world relative to everywhere else, in contrast to your critique re: after Anor Londo. When the path ended somewhere it felt like a realistic end, all of these paths were leading me to a Lord. You could still get back on foot if you wanted. It was still connected. (Edited for spelling)
The back halfs flaws are exaggerated today. Only truly bad area is izalith.
Yes-yes-yes! Have no idea what's people talking about! Tomb of Giants is brilliant. One of the best levels in the series. New londo have such a thick and oppressive atmosphere,and revelation of piles of corpses is so impressive, i was stunned. Archives is... fine? Nothing special about it, nothing particularly good, but nothing particularly bad either. Izalith is kinda bad, but it's unique enough to be memorable and doesn't feel like a waste of time. Boss is terrible, but not enough to be a deal breaker, coz it keep your progress even if you die, and you can brute force your way through. It's bad but tolerable.
As someone who has 200+ hours at ds1 and still loves to pick this game up sometimes, hearing you discover the game i love so much is heartmelting
the script is just on point too!
Hey a fellow 200+ hours member! I just recently reached that milestone while working on this video!
And thank you so much! I'm really glad you enjoyed it!
I really hope this dude meant to say 2000 cuz 200 is bull shit bro took me like 100 hours just to get through the game the first time lol
@@matthewetie7539 no. high 200s, but yes, the first time beating the game took a third of that if not more
To bring some light to your concerns about invaders in Dark Souls...Invaders are there only when you are in human form, and do so to balance out you having the ability to summon help for boss runs/boss fights. You have the ability to have help when fighting a boss, with the expense of potentially being invaded (by NPCs or real players). Thats how it balances out. Secondly, each of the NPC invaders do actually contribute to the story/lore of the game world, as by reading item descriptions from what they drop after you defeat them tell you a little about their story or tragedy in the world of dark souls.
A real invader got Solaire killed in my world in Anor Londo by getting me to hit and aggro him. A silver knight got him before I could find a good way to evade him and get back to Oswald at the belltower. Unforgivable crime :,(
spectacular job! Stoked to keep up with whatever you do next!
one small thing about the number of flasks. That item makes it possible to upgrade to 20 flasks (you can kindle 2 aditional times from 10 flasks)
Yeah a lot think Rite of Kindling just lets you get 15, but it is 3 kindling saved across every NG+ for that character
Oh wow, I guess that just goes to show how little I kindled, lol. I always thought only the fully satiated Lordvessel gave you 20 Estus. That's cool to know!
Yep. It's basically a difficulty slider they added for the second half. Arguably one that goes too far in the easy direction: If you need more than 12 or 15 heals in one area you probably aren't ready to progress.
I don't understand how you argue in favor of Dark Souls' world and exploration being cryptic, saying that the messages "spoil" things for the player and make exploration less interesting... yet you point to your chat and thank them for giving you guidance and stopping you from going down a certain path you weren't prepared for yet. Going on to say that if you'd have kept going down that path without them around, you'd have been so drained you'd have quit the game and never come back, insinuating the game is doing something wrong by leaving this path blatantly open to a new player. Do you want the game to be cryptic about what you should do and where you should go or not?
Even the way you say you engaged with chat, seeing their vague messages and getting the idea you're not supposed to go this way yet based on what they said without them directly saying "go the other way"... that's how people engage with Dark Souls world messages. They see one and draw a conclusion based on that, it's basically the same experience of other players hinting at something and you learned from what they said.
It's because he saw someone else talk about player messages being bad in a different video essay, so he decided to parrot it, but doesn't actually believe it himself
Thanks so much for the comment! You are right, these two points do at first seem to contradict each other. Do I want the world to be open and unguided so that I can make mistakes and learn on my own, or do I not want to waste hours of effort on a very difficult detour that would take yet more hours to escape?
Well, both, honestly. I can praise this game for how enthralling its game world is, enjoy the open ended adventure that it allows you to have, and also acknowledge the downsides of designing the game in this way. Hell, just moving the golden fog door to right before Pinwheel would alleviate a lot my issues with the graveyard path, so that you don't have to get so deep into that hole before knowing you have to turn around.
And I see your point about the player messages, and I believe I even mentioned that I do like them thematically. It makes it seem like there are many earlier adventurers who have left their mark on the world, leaving behind breadcrumbs for the next brave souls that start the journey to follow. But again, they do have their downsides. I don't think I'd want them removed from the game completely, but maybe an option to toggle them off while still being online, or allowing players to mark some tags as spoilers so they appear in a different colour would work.
Basically I'm trying to say that I agree with you. I do both appreciate and respect the benefits of the cryptic, open world and the player messages that fill its streets with the echoes of past adventures, but I also acknowledge that they can sometimes be detrimental.
And thanks again for the insightful comment, I really enjoyed reading it!
Great points, took the words out of my mouth lol
@PolarBear084 that's why they don't just let you put whatever message you want to put. The templates cam help curtail something that could other wise be a super spoiler.
Even when it spoils something I do like when "be wary of right" stops me from getting stomped, and then I can go back and rate that message to help the player in their world. Playing offline just isn't the same.
I stopped watching the video at that point... Not being able to be objective invalidates good criticism
On a related note, I would have never got past the invisible crystal cave walkway without the message. Meanwhile in tomb of the giants I was stuck for multiple hours without the lantern trying to decipher what "Sealed by the great lord's power" might mean. At this point I learned from google that, no the Graveyard is infact not the first direction to go after killing the tutorial boss
Yeah, Dark Souls 1 was the entry in the series I finished last. Funnily enough, only a few days ago.
I had probably 5 attempts at the game before that.
One of those in particular stopped after reaching the golden fog-gate in the catacombs after only having rung the first bells at the top. After that I didn't touch the game for a good 5 years.
I only decided to finish the game (including all bosses) recently because I felt confident enough (I had just done another playthrough of each DS3 and DS2 some weeks ago) and knowledgable enough after having watched videos and playthrougs.
And since I KNEW what the objectives were, I found the game to be a LOT more enjoyable, personally.
In fact, I did another playthrough right after my first one in which I went for only the necessary bosses and finished that one in only 8 hours. It was incredibly fun.
I do agree with your reasons for liking the game but 80% of your negative criticisms were because you are ill informed on why those things are great. I’m not saying anything bad about how you viewed the game because I understand. You don’t go into a game knowing everything about it, and even when you’ve feel you master it there’s more than you thought.
The biggest thing I disagree with, you said the story was upfront and told you to the player directly. And that most people won’t go out of there way to figure it out. There’s a TH-cam channel dedicated to the story of this game with over 1.3 million views. And the way the story is told is the best way a story should be told. Look at COD zombies. In WAW and black ops 1 the story was hidden and 99% of players NEVER knew the story and didn’t care, they just wanted to kill zombies. And Easter eggs were hidden and extremely difficult for you to figure out without knowing there is one in the first place let alone the guides youd need to finish them. After bo1 and starting bo2 the story was told to you directly and Easter eggs weren’t Easter eggs at all. They were the game, in order to play you had to do most of the Easter egg steps to progress. That ruined the experience for the die hard fans. If dark souls did that after demons souls no one would give a shit about the story. That’s why I defended the souls games so much, the story is supposed to be difficult. You have to WANT to know more and take the time to understand it.
Hey, thanks for the comment, I really enjoyed reading it and you make some great points!
And I do think you're right when you say that there is a story to be found in Dark Souls, and that there's clearly people that want to understand that story. However, as you mentioned in relation how many people didn't try to understand the underlying plot in COD zombies, the story being this difficult to parse is definitely a hurdle for most. There is such a large barrier to entry, the information so disprately presented and so difficult to unearth, that a large portion of the people that play the game are not going to go to those efforts to figure it out.
The fact that there are TH-cam channels that go through the monumental effort of compiling the underlying story into a form that is actually understandable for us, and that so many people watch their content to gain that understanding also lends credence to this. People definitely do want to understand the world of Lordran, but it would require far too much time and effort to personally attempt to unearth the story yourself and do all the work that the game asks of youto achieve it, cataloguing hundreds of item descriptions and analyzing hours of character dialogues.
As I said, I admire why they chose to present the story/lore in this way, and I can definitely see the inherent appeal it provides. But I also can't ignore how obtuse it makes it. What I'm trying to say is that this method of presenting the story isn't a failure by any means.
It elevates the atmosphere of Lordran, to the point that I could almost call it immpecable. But it also makes the actual story that you take part in quite inpenetrable.
But thanks again for the thoughtful comment and I'm glad you enjoyed the video! You've certainly given me something to think about, so thank you for that.
Man I wish we could hop in a vc and just talk about the latter half of this video as you have some good and fair points but also just some extremely “hot” takes that make no sense to me, especially where at times you bring up key points of info that directly conflict with your opinions. Regardless love to see more people get into the series, and am looking forward to you potentially engaging with the series further, as some of your criticisms were addressed later in the series, Elden Ring obviously being the culmination.
Lovely vid m8, pls continue as you're able.
Really great video, it's very refreshing to hear some new and unique thoughts.
A few things about what you had to say for the online features~
I get that to most of us these games are primarily single-player experiences - and, primarily, they _are_ - but they’re *also* always online. It's a misunderstanding to consider the online as some tacked on addition, it’s core to the whole idea of the game. Community and human nature are some of the core themes of Souls games; the feeling that other people have been through here before and left messages to help or trap you, the idea that strangers can come together and help each other out without even uttering a word or stab you in the back just as easily. Even though the entire world seems to be out to kill you, you’re not alone and there are other’s going through the exact same thing. It’s part of the reason so many people have said this game helped them with depression - it’s art, and its the kind of art that you could *really* only get from a game as harsh as this one.
And sure, invasions can feel out of place and be unfair. Player messages can troll you or straight up spoil secrets, but the devs didn’t finish the game and trip and fall and _suddenly_ there’s online. Nah, it isn't always done perfectly but the game was built around this stuff. I get that invasions can feel out of place, but the whole point is that time and world itself are collapsing in on each other so different worlds and points in history. I feel that it doesn't make sense to complain that enemies don’t fit with the lore when them not fitting is PART of the lore.
This is one of the whole things that even makes Dark Souls special in the first place. The lore and the gameplay are not separate, it’s all part of the same whole. Dark Souls is trying to be more than just gameplay, it’s trying to be an *experience.* It doesn’t do the greatest possible job of that, but still that’s what it’s trying to be.
Also I feel like t's kinda unfair to act like there are YT channels, threads, and forums dedicated to explaining and deciphering the lore that most Souls fans love delving into. That stuff is part of the community too, and it wouldn't thrive _so_ much if the players weren't deeply interested in the 'why.'
Once again, good work. I enjoyed watching the full thing and you've easily earned a subscriber in me! Looking forward to whatever you do next now.
I really glad you enjoyed the video! And thank you so much for such a thoughtful and detailed comment, it was a joy to read!
You make a fantastic point that the online features were definitely always an intended part of the experience, and I think that comes through stronger in the later games, DS3 being the most notable example. There, the online features feel fully realized and are probably closest to what From Software wanted the experience to be like in DS1, and I think that's just down to them learning with each installment. I'm excited to finally play through Elden Ring and see how that game uses all of these earlier attempts as learning material to inform their design choices there.
And as far as the story goes, I completely agree that there is a story to be found in the game, a fantastic one at that, but a lot of people will act as though telling the story through item descriptions and vague dialogue that you can never revisit if you accidentally hit the A button, is the best... heck even the ONLY way to tell it. The reason this works is because the atmosphere is so masterfully crafted that you want to learn more, and thankfully some incredible people in the community have taken on the Herculean task of compiling that story into something we can all understand.
It definitely works, and I do like that ultimately it is the community that works together to understand the stories behind these games, but I cannot get behind the idea that this is a good way to present them overall. Stories should be able to stand as their own narrative, without the aid of Wiki's or incredibly passionate individuals willing to do untold hours of work on their behalf.
Also, as an aside, I would really like to be able to pull apart the world of Lordran myself, and put together the pieces to figure out what happened there, similar to a game like Outer Wilds (not Obsidian Entertainment's Outer Worlds, I know those two get confused a lot). I was incredibly disheartened when I realized that the story was so far beyond my understanding, requiring way more time that I would be able to offer it at this stage in my life, and that my only option was to go watch someone else's compilation of it. I'm so incredibly grateful they went through and did the work that I would be unable to do, but man do I wish it was presented in a way that I could piece it together myself.
Again, thank you so much for your comment, it was incredibly detailed and thought-provoking. I really appreciate it. And I'm so glad you enjoyed the video!
I've never heard of Manus being a sore spot on the boss list. It's a fine difficulty spike appropriate for a dlc boss. Admittedly, I never knew there was an item to gimp him, but it's always your choice to use it just like summons
Simply wonderful video. Please keep going
Really good video really a gem of a channel I have found here. I really appreciate the hard work you put in 👍
It was really funny when you called the messages on the ground "tweets from the nether"
You're not the only late comer. I had a friend get me into it around the virus times and he got me lost trying to get the gravelord sword
I literally always think of Super Mario 64 when going down to the Bed of Chaos 🤣
i just imagine demon ruins/ izalith as im on mustafar and remembering all the star wars memes so i end up enjoying the area lol. GOOD VIDEO
1:08:20 I'm so glad you got this on video of Taurus Demon just jumping off to his death. I had this happen to me during one of my follow up play thru's and I could not stop laughing at how absurd it was.
This is an excellent video. By far the strongest parts are when you talk about the aspects of the game you felt missed the mark, back them up with gameplay examples, and explain how changing them would affect the overall experience for the better, ESPECIALLY the instances when you give your own suggestions on how things could have been different (you should lean into this even more by more thoroughly explaining why you think your suggestions would work). I have close to 600hrs in Dark Souls 1, it's one of if not my favorite game of all time and so youtube recommends me lots of "Big Ol Dark Souls videos" and I give all of them a chance. Most tend to be lazy retrospectives basically reading wiki pages with no actual original critique or analysis, but yours is a cut above. I don't agree with all your opinions, but all of them are argued in good faith and backed up with reasoning. Thank YOU for bringing something fresh to the DS discourse your perspective as a relatively new player was refreshing!
If I could double heart this, I would. Thank you so much for your kind words, and I'm genuinely pleased you enjoyed the video!
I'm proud to be able to add even a whisper to the chorus of discourse surrounding this monument of a game.
I'll definitely carry your feedback into my next critique as well. Again, thank you.
Starting a new job tomorrow but look forward to falling asleep to your voice while watching this tonight 😄
Thanks! Hope you enjoy it, and good luck with the new job!
I actually quit Dark souls the first time when I went straight into pinwheel and the tomb of the giants and realized I was stuck at a bonfire down there LOL.
Lost Izalith was initially going to be a swamp and and have a bunch more enemy types but plans and designs changed a bit and it became lava and they had no time to finish it up. Additionally, From didn't do the Remaster so they had no chance to go back and fix it. Remaster was done by another company and is about as half assed as you can get.
it is just a remaster - making a game work on modern devices and polishing up the textures so that they're not a blurry pixelated mess on higher resolutions... and the studio that bandai namco hired for it (which does only such technical jobs, not the creative tasks) did what they got paid for just fine, it was never meant to be a full blown remake
the funniest thing about Pinwheel is that Lore-Wise he is stronger than Nito, he stole the Rite of Kindling from him leaving him vulnerable and weaker because of him and left him scared in some kind of way then Nito not wanting to confront him again just stayed down in his personal dark hell frustrated.
I deffo think they could’ve made Pin a much harder fight with him having more powerful magic and summoning skeletons…… you know since he is a NECROMANCER haha , but i guess Pin forgot the one thing necromancers cant escape from: Mr. Mele Sword
Hooray time to watch my 26th dark souls 1 retrospective 😃
I went through graveyard first, when i eventually got through and made my way back up; i figured the more progress i made the more appreciative i was having that silver serpent ring.
afik the taurus daemon yeeting themself off the bridge is intentional. there are colliders everywhere else to prevent that from happening but not right there. and it was never changed so presumably it was intentional.
It definitely was. Illusory Wall's recent video shows that there's actually 3 spots on the bridge where it can happen.
Great analysis.
I think a proper video game analogy for Dark Souls would be the Prince of Persia sands of time trilogy (especially, Warrior Within), both in terms of its adventure-focused gameplay, and its mechanics. The two games are so similar when you dismantle its elements, that if you were to literally replace the "Souls" mechanic with Prince of Persia's "sands", you'd basically get the same gaming experience. Except that, narratively speaking, Prince of Persia is more straightforward.
Thanks for the video again, and best wishes from Iran.
So as I also beat this game just like 2 weeks ago, here's my very short take. I REALLY loved combat and exploration, even though I used magic at times, the flow, the planning, the discovery, I loved it all.
But everything else just...dragged it down. Platforming boss? Area without light? Small platforms while being shot at? Invasions when I just want to have humanity? None of them felt like they added or helped the game, they just felt annoying to outright bad depending.
50:54 Great video so far! This was one of those channels i expected to have a very sizeable following but subverted my expectations when I checked.
I just beat it this week after trying for off and on for 2 years. It’s literally a bucket list accomplishment for me. Moving on to 2 now and I am 😢
Magic makes everything easier. Even if you're not using it for damage. You can get a weapon buff, tho resin does this. Tho the biggest boon magic gives is a spell called "Cast Light" It's useless for most of the game, but easier to get. You can also get the skull lantern, but this takes up your shield slot.(Which is bad for new players.) Or you can get a sunlight magot, which requires spending 20 humanity, and it takes up your helm slot.(the better option of the two.) or you can just cast a spell, and have a orb of light over your head. Requires 14 int, you get 3 casts of it, and each last for about five mins, but you can get more with the Lingering Dragoncrest ring. But you're only gonna need this in the tomb of giants, and for like one spot in the dlc.
Sunlight Maggot doesn't require spending any Humanity. The shortcut is nice, but only accessible after placing the Lordvessel anyway so if you're already heading down to Lost Izalith at some point you can get two fairly easy bosses out of the way and open the shortcut from the other side, saving the 30 Humanity you have to give for opening the Shortcut slightly early.
@@thefrogwasnthurt2299 True, but I always take the shortcut for reasons. If only I could be so grossly incandescent
@@darkspawntales You can kill that thing through the wall as well (Poison Mist Pyromancy does so easily), or not speak to him in Anor Londo from what I've heard. I kind of like having his gear personally, but there are alternatives to forking over thirty Humanity.
Could not agree more with you on your sentiment that DS is at it's best as an adventure game. Far too many people completely ignore the brilliance of trekking around these worlds, seeing them only as great bosses separated by hallways that must be ran through. I think that kind of mindset misses out on the best aspects of these games. World/story development, and the magic of discovery is peak, particularly in the first half of DS1.
Honestly, magic being OP and the post-Lordvessel content being weak were both big talking points within the community as I recall. Perhaps not as much nowadays, and not as visible to outsiders, but these were very well-known issues back when everyone was playing the game.
Huh didn't know that! Glad I wasn't completely off the mark with those takes XD Like I said, all I really heard about the game when it first came out was what my friends talked about so that mostly passed me by.
And I'm gonna add that just saying Magic is OP is underselling it. When you have a magjc focused character, particularly offensive magic, it's like you're playing a completely different game.
Nothing wrong with using magic in the game at all obviously, I personally found it incredibly satisfying, it's just strange to me that From Software would include such disprate combat experiences in the same game where there's such an apparent focus on how that combat operates.
Only a quarter through but great video so far. Playing dark souls 1 was a lot to get used to after my parry-heavy introduction (bloodborne). What are your thoughts on dark souls 2 (if youve played it)? Its my favorite world of the main 3 games and i think there is a lot of incredible aspects to it that are, underrated? Overrated now? I suppose its not a hot take anymore. Anyhow, i look forward to finishing this video, great work.
Glad you're enjoying the video! And I did play Dark Souls 2, and enjoyed it a lot! I would put it below Dark Souls 1 and 3 if I were to rank them, but I definitely wouldn't say that DS2 was a bad game at all.
I often say that DS2 is a great game, but not a great Dark Souls game, if that makes sense? Absolutely an underrated entry in the series, that gets somewhat piled on by the community from what I've seen, but it does have some flaws that drag it down a bit for me as well.
Hope that answered your question, and thanks for the comment! I could definitely see Dark Souls 1 taking a little getting used to if it wasn't the first one you played.
@@PolarBear084 I think that's a completely fair statement! I find that it takes more work and enthusiasm to truly get immersed in the world, but once I did I was hooked. My biggest complaint is how brutal the early game is, and how empty drangleic castle is. It feels lifeless. I think it takes the opposite direction of ds3 where the first 1/3 of the game is overwhelming with exploration options, and I have come to quite like it. DS3's first few areas always leave a bitter taste in my mouth when I replay it, but the later game areas + dlc are all really awesome.
The flaws you describe in the second half of the video is why people were so disappointed with the Remastered edition. There was a prime opportunity for the devs to bring the game's systems up to date, add more fluidity to the combat akin to DS3, bring QOL changes to the interface, properly finish the late-game areas they previously had to rush to meet the deadlines. but it didn't happen, even some notorious bugs were left untouched... now it seems the idea of "an ideal Dark Souls 1" will forever be unexplored.
I agree finishing the late game areas properly would have been amazing. But changing the combat and other fundamental aspects really would have made that release less of a remaster and more of a reimagining. That would've alienated many fans and robbed new players of the original experience.
I don't get why would anyone expect it from a remaster (not a remake), especially one outsourced to another studio
@@blairfujin because a remaster isn't always just about the graphics. the possibility to enhance the game was there. you just need access to the engine and the source code, which is obviously available to whoever does the remaster. so they could've finished the unfinished areas of the late game at the very least.
@@vivusbrydyr4039 but why would you like a studio that does only technical stuff (they mostly do qa work for aaa games and remasters like this, my cousin actually works in their qa division and according to her, they don't have any designers) do creative work instead of from software?
my take is for what it is - an outsourced remaster, not a remake by the same team who wanted to give their game a second chance, it does its job fine
I also wouldn't be happy about bluepoint trying to make the last archstone area themselves in the demons' souls remake
@@vivusbrydyr4039 and remaster is just that, making a game playable and presentable on modern hardware, what we used to call hd version, industry just switched to remaster cause the former term doesn't work with ps3/xbox360 games that were in hd resolution to begin with
I am actually toward the end of my first playthrough.
The graveyard did turn me back at first and after the first bell, I did see the basement key. By this point I remembered 4 locked doors I wanted through: the one in the tower, the one in the Burg near the midpoint shrine, the one near the Taurus demon that has Havel, and the aqueduct passage. I didn’t have an issue. Didn’t notice the key’s description.
And yeah, I was stuck for a short while before the cathedral, but I don’t think it was too bad.
Accessing Sif “early” seems off though. I mean, it could have been gold door locked. And the tower to the Four Kings could have prevented your passage…
I do agree exploration is the best part of the experience.
I did wind up getting to the darkness of the Tomb of Giants right after Pinwheel right after the second bell, since I kept getting murdered at Sen’s Fortress and figured I was underpowered or underequipped. And like a dummy I heard about the nest route back to the Undead Asylum and managed to get the doll, so the moment I saw the painting, I jumped in without realizing I was trapped. And that was rough.
In retrospect, Blighttown was not as horrible as people make it out to be. The poison blow darts suck, but the rest is manageable if you take it methodically and don’t roll like a moron and have some mosses stocked. And the Iron Ring.
The worst was the thought of going back before you realized that you could exit via the Valley of the Drakes. Otherwise, you feel like you are miles below with no way up but slogging back.
At the 21:00 minute mark when hes talking about Skyrim.
I never thought it was to much freedom that stopped most people from finishing the main story of skyrim.
I always thought it was how boring the main quest is in Bethesda games.
Witcher 3,Cyberpunk even New vegas offer tons of freedom but people love their main quests.
I dunno maybe im crazy.
I would say dark souls is more like Metroidvanias than SM64.
I absolutely agree that exploration is so important to Dark Souls, and I kinda hate how in discussions it so often gets overshadowed by the notion that FromSoft games are instead defined by their tough boss fights. The boss fights are the punction, but it's the level design, item locations, and placement of basic fodder enemies that are the sentences and paragraphs.
Speaking of the difficulty, a common turn of phrase people use to describe this genre is, "challenging but fair," however, there's nothing all that fair about the damage output even basic enemies can do or the way they are positioned to ambush and outflank the player, especially not when that player is still new and inexperienced. Although conversely, there's really nothing all that challenging about how sluggish and exploitable the AI is to for an experienced player. My preferred way to describe the game is, "punishing but simple."
As for spell casting, yeah, it does sort of break everything about the combat system, but it surprises me that anyone wouldn't already know that, because at least in my experience it is talked about commonly enough, albeit somewhat derisively as being the game's "easy mode".
Although speaking of things that are "easy", I think you maybe missed the point when Taurus Demon fell off the ledge. You call it unsatisfying, but personally I find it very satisfying in how it demonstrates that bosses actually play by the same rules as the player. That same spatial awareness and positioning that the player has to be careful of lest they fall to their demise, can likewise be exploited to do the same to the boss. Then again that sorta loops back around to my original point, that I hate when Dark Souls is boiled down to just being a game with "hard" bosses, as if the only thing that mattered was the player proving their own skill against a seemingly insurmountable foe, when the real test is the ability to observe, improvise, and where possible, even think outside the box to find alternative solutions.
That said, the situation with the dragon is obviously not at all intentional, and a bug I've never even seen before. Then again, I've also only ever played the Prepare to Die edition, never the remaster.
Back to observational challenges though, Nito and his skeletons should be an absolutely fitting capstone to the mechanics faced to reach him, as the necromancers in the Catacombs do the exact same thing, endlessly revving the nearby skeletons unless the player uses holy damage. Nito is a final test who becomes easier when the player actually learns the lesson the preceding level was trying to teach.
Likewise, you seem to be missing the point with Manus as well, which I find odd after you had previously held up exploration as such an important pillar of the game. The silver pendant isn't some lazy copout FromSoft included because they couldn't be bothered to properly balance a boss. Rather the boss is deliberately imbalanced to encourage and reward exploration with the solution.
I also think you aren't quite looking at NPC invaders the right way either, because they aren't just placed randomly. For most of them the equipment they drop actually explains who they are and why they are encounter in specific locations. They very much are just as much part of the curated and intentional experience as any other enemy, albeit also an optional escalation in difficult tied to being good at the game, not dying and thus preserving the humanity which triggers them to appear.
But moving onto the actual multiplayer features, you hit the nail on the head when you referred to it as something which builds a sense of community, because that's exactly what it's there for. It's all inspired by an incident Miyazaki had of being stuck driving in a snowstorm, where one by one the drives of each car helped push each other up and over a hill, but lest he get stuck in the snow again, he couldn't stop to thank these helpful strangers. The entire point is that you aren't really meant to figure everything out on your own, nor face every challenge alone. That's why the co-op works the way it does, that's why players can leave each other helpful messages. It's about fostering that feeling of strangers all struggling together to overcome a shared adversity, because after his experience that was what stuck with Miyazaki, how if he met those people from the snowstorm under other circumstances maybe they could have been friends... or maybe they'd have been enemies (hence also invaders).
And on the final point about direction though the game, it's not like there is only a single path into Blighttown and the bell bellow. You mention yourself that before being pointed in the direction of using the basement key, you had considered going into Darkroot Garden. A location which connects to the Valay of Drakes, which in turn connects to a backdoor tunnel that leads down into Blight Town. It might have been more circuitous route, but you'd have it would have still gotten you where you needed to be. There is no single intentional path, because the most important point of the game, that you strongly seem to have forgotten halfway through making this video, is to EXPLORE.
Even if you had gone the "wrong" way through the graveyard and into the Catacombs, there is still a reward to be gained in the Rite of Kindling. Just because you rarely saw fit to enhance Bonfires past 10 estus, doesn't mean the ability to do so is useless. Although seeing as you seem to of fallen into the trap of judging the game by how "satisfying" the bosses are to overcome, fighting Pinwheel at that earlier stage of the game can actually be a moderately challenging fight. Although admittedly, there probably should have been some kind of shortcut back out of the Tomb of the Giants, rather than the only option being a slow climb.
...
Oh, and one more thing. At multiple points you say that death is so punishing, but it really isn't. Yes, the player drops all their souls, but they have a chance to recover them, and yes, if they die again before they can do that the souls are lost forever, but the player can always kill more enemies to get more souls. It's also not like there is any reason to horde souls. They can always be exchanged for level at any bonfire, and so a player really only ever has themself to blame if the die while carrying a large number of souls.
Huh... I didn't even know about the silver pendant.
I just ended up having a ton of health that allowed me to tank those spells to some degree.
Yup. Dark souls 1. My first real run. Got all the way down past the catacombs until the end at the orange gate. I got back up but my god. Ill nevwe forget that nightmare. Im suprised i didnt quit/hallow
Regarding taking the wrong path at ~1:40:00... I got to the very end of Ash Lake before realizing I would have to drag myself back up the Great Hollow because I hadn't gotten the Lordvessel yet ("Thanks, Reddit. What the hell is a Lordvessel?"). It was a moment of deep disappointment, but I did it, and I felt proud. This was on probably my third attempt after getting overwhelmed by the game a couple times and needing a months-long break. Not a "good" experience, but from what I've seen online a fairly common one, and these are my favorite games by far now.
By the way, great video! Appreciate any chance to revisit this game in a thoughtful, critical way. Good luck building the channel, I liked and subbed
I figured out how to easily get through the bonewheel skeletons. Poise through it (i used the havel set) they just get stuck on you and you can swing away. Also as an old MMORPG player id say dark souls is the opposite in that you can always defeat your foe with what you have you just arent trying hard enough. In mmorpgs if you are underleveled you will die due to numbers.
Best level design of all time! So much better than Elden Ring. This is simply undeniable, I don’t know about Sekiro as that’s the only Soulsborne I haven’t played. But I’d be surprised if it has better level design than DS1. It’s near perfect
Really great video! I get your critiques but I was lucky on my first playthrough I had a pal who was able to offer some tips and I did just look up some stuff. But was genuinely one of my favourite video game experiences
1:38:10 I did a very similar thing on my first playthrough. New-Londo ruins was the first area I went to after the asylum. I died over 200 times to the ghosts, thinking that this was simply how the game was meant to be played and part of what earned it's infamous 'difficult' reputation
Edit: I did quit, for around about 3 months. I came back and headed the right way, though I later got lost in the Catacombs, the depths, Blighttown (even heading to the very bottom bonfire in the great hollow), Anor Londo, The Duke's Archives and New-Londo ruins again
I've since completed the game many, many times, but that first playthrough was unlike anything else, barring maybe fear & hunger 1
I struggled with many of the bosses, but found navigation the hardest part of my first playthrough by FAR
I didn't get stuck on the graveyard onwards, but I did get frustrated with the big painting in anor londo. I could see right away that it was important, but the steps required to make it usable are so eldritch that only someone using a guide or chat can actually access it. To a lesser degree fighting Black Kalameet as well - I didn't meet Gough until my 3rd playthrough
Your complaint about Manus' black circle forcing you to run close, I assumed that it was developer intention to stop mages from just standing back and sniping. You have to stay engaged with the boss BECAUSE he can force you to move
When I first played the game I did become unsure of what to do at a couple points and looked up a let's play. But I'm not sure which, it may have been the basement key but I also struggled with the combat until I realised early enemies were stunned by hitting a shield
Also I took a few restarts to finally finish it, ending my first successful playthrough with a strength/faith build
Amazing video! This is my second favourite game of all time, but I agree that it has it's flaws. You're really good at taking a neutral stance when talking about flaws. I hope to see you review the other soulsborne games as well. Keep up the great work
The first time I tried to play DSR (I think it was 2020), I got stuck after the first bell. I did find the Capra demon and was just totally lost after that, spending several hours running around trying to figure out where to go. I gave up for two years and came back to it with a guide. Funnily enough, I couldn't find the graveyard when it came to that point either, even with the knowledge that winding up there was a common mistake by new players. When I started DS3, I decided to only use a guide to figure out the area to go to if I got stuck. But frankly haven't needed to use it much (I'm about 70% done and have hit a brick wall in Ariandel with the knights, I'm in parry bootcamp and might need to go do some other stuff first, I still have one main boss to do before the final one and some other side stuff).
One thing that kind of sucks about playing these so late is that a lot is spoiled and you can't undo that. Knowing this before Elden Ring came out, I have made a huge effort to completely avoid anything but news before playing it. I played a few hours on launch, but wanted to go back and play the DS series first... which became just DS and DS3 after a few hours of pure rage in Scholars (I found out later that SotFS is basically hardcore mode and not a remaster and I have since picked up normal DS2 on sale and may go back and try that... or not, either way, I consider it a donation to FromSoft).
years and years of thought and discussion put into this game gives me the benefit of understanding why certain things that you claim didnt make sense like NPC Invaders actually perfectly slot into the story, so i dont want to rag too hard on that.
Instead I just want to say that your experience of this game seems MASSIVELY influenced by the thoughts and opinions of the pop culture that surrounds it, and there were multiple times where the game itself contradicted its own reputation and you seemed immensely frustrated by those "shortcomings". Like the commentary on Manus's magic attacks, where you yourself admitted that there was actually a way of avoiding the attack without the item, and that the item also allowed you to dodge the attack, but you still criticized the attack for being too punishing because.... using any of the intended methods to dodge it was "cheesing" it??? its not enough that there are multiple ways to avoid the attack, the fact that you cant roll through it contradicts your belief that rolling and blocking are the only intended ways to dodge attacks, a belief i have no doubt is a result of your interactions with people parroting popular sentiments about the game
i can also see this pop culture influence on your discussions of Dark Souls 2 - how you take for granted that the viewer already "knows" that the hitboxes and enemy placement of that game is bad, so you repeated those sentiments without giving it a second thought. there are actually people who have painstakingly examined every single hitbox by every enemy in that game, and the results of that were that the hitboxes in Dark Souls 2 largely resemble those from Dark Souls 1, but that Adaptability giving the player less i-frames made it so they were more likely to get clipped by attacks and grabs that they could otherwise easily dodge if they had the same amount of i-frames as in Dark Souls 1. The idea that the game's hitboxes are notoriously bad is just an idea that stuck due to the experiences of players on week 1 of the game's release when they had no idea about Adaptability.
Anyways, i think youre really going to love Dark Souls 3. That game has exactly everything you want out of this series.
The online of these souls games are an unique experience.
i agree about dark souls being an adventure game. that's actually what made me love it so much. i hadn't even heard of it back when my friend had me try it for the first time in 2015. without the perspective of everyone else saying how hard it was, i really didn't even take note of the difficulty. it didn't really feel like a game that was too hard or anything, just one that would take some getting used to. no, the thing that really stood out to me was the level design. it felt like a 3D zelda game where the combat wasn't completely brain dead, and i loved it. keep in mind that breath of the wild didn't exist yet so zelda combat was basically just waiting for an enemy to reveal its (typically obvious) weak spot, then spamming attack when it does.
It’s a survivor adventure combat game. The difficulty in DS1 is not about the bosses but the minute to minute feeling of being a fly in the world of dragons through clever QOL adjustments and intentionally obscure game mechanics like 4 types of upgrade materials.
It embraces complexity at the risk of turning away players. It makes me feel like the world is not catered for me personally which is something I can’t say for their later games.
One of my only disagreements so far is that magic being overpowered is somehow a negative. I think it exists for a reason and shows a lot how flexible these games actually are. If you need the assistance of magic, do it because the game wants you to beat it no matter what. You have an insane amount of options in these games especially er and ds2 and 3 that if it helps, do it.
I say to my friends all the time that Dark Souls (like) and Nioh are like Mario games
I think you will enjoy the original Demon's Souls a LOT more than you did Dark Souls. Great video and arguments and critiques.
You're wrong about Dark Souls letting you visit every scenery you set your eyes upon. There are many backdrops that fall out of bounds. The ones that come to mind are
1. The Undead Burg -looking town below Firelink.
2. The forests surrounding Sen's Fortress.
3. The River in Darkroot Garden.
4. The mountain ranges around the Undead Asylum.
5. The mountain ranges around the Painted World.
There may be more too, but those are the ones I can think of.
I was SO infuriated by first ~5min of the video. It have nothing to do with video itself, or with author. I just can't stand how perspective of this series changed with time.
"I heard this game was about difficulty..."
"Difficulty was defining trait of this series for years... "
"My friends told me how difficult it was..."
"I read countless stories how people bwas broken by bosses..."
This is something i was afraid from the very beginning, after first memes with Skyrim vs Dark Souls. This games never was ABOUT difficulty. (Illusion of) difficulty was artistic decision, and tool for a very specific purpose. EVERYTHING ELSE was important, and difficulty just amplified everything else and made it special.
Some of your problems regarding exploration are solved through the online message system. You'd know you can and should go on top of the Anor Londo ledge thing to progress from other people trying to help you. You'd know you shouldn't jump into the abyss (even after completely missing all the dialogue regarding it) through messages like "need covenant" or "need item". Time in Lordran is convoluted. Legends appear and disappear left and right, and you are not meant to undertake this journey alone. Chat fulfilled that role for you though, so you didn't exactly play the game in an unintended way. Admittedly, the catacombs path is a problem, but the darkness after pinwheel is a huge deterrent for early levels, so the "strong enemy, turn back" rule still applies.
I actually don't have a problem with Manus's dark circle attack. He stands still, presenting a huge opening for you to rush in and attack, and you're rewarded by being able to hit him and avoid the damage. You're approaching this fight in a single way and then confused as to why it's not always going to work, and that's because the devs wanted you to approach it differently. It's meant to be the true final boss of the game, and so he presents you with an alternate challenge that has a consistent punish for either you or him, depending on whether or not you figure it out.
I never made it all the way to Nito's molten cheese wall early, but I definitely did bash my head against the skeletons for a while, thinking "this must be the incredible difficulty everybody talks about". In fact, I've had many moments in later From games where I'd NOT turn back from an insurmountable enemy, only to later find out I had missed a crucial piece of info or item that would have made it much easier. I don't like this phenomenon at all, but it's also not really the game's fault, but more a result of the (in my opinion misguided) discourse around the series. The difficulty is THE one thing overshadowing everything else when this series gets talked about, when it can be so much more than that. As an aside, the idea that the skeletons are probably meant to convey, is that if some enemy is too hard, try somewhere else. Something like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy have used to guide their players. In those games that wipes you in a few hits is a clear message that you are wrong here, but Dark Souls, thanks to the stupid "prepare to die" marketing can't convey that message as clearly as it wants to. I also think it scares off people who would actually enjoy the games and breeds some very unhealthy discourse, but I could rant endlessly about this and its community, so I'd rather not.
I love the first Dark Souls btw, which might not be clear from the above. The exploration and the looping world design is my favorite thing about itr, with the difficulty being largely an afterthought.
imo they should've either ditched the golden fog walls entirely and given you a "primal bonfire" like DS2 that just teleports you back to firelink at every lord soul, or just put the golden fog wall at the doorway just before the catacombs opens up, not in the entrance to the second area in tomb of giants, it is unreasonable to punish players with having to climb out of the tomb of giants without a light source, where if you die to a bonewheel, or at any point before reaching basically the top of the catacombs, you have to climb out of tomb of giants again (assuming you haven't found vamos's bonfire, or are playing the non-remaster where he doesn't even have a bonfire) that is just a ridiculously punishing consequence for the crime of exploration, can you imagine being cursed, misremembering what the dialogue said about a healer in new londo, and trying to find the cure in the catacombs only to get stuck in the tomb of the giants while still cursed, like just think about that for a second, it's something the game just lets you stumble into, i would not fault anyone for quitting the game at that point, and that just sucks
Wow, that is a lot. Glad to see the project finally completed. Gave me a few new things to think about with the way I view Dark Souls as a whole and what I compare it to (mostly Monster Hunter). Agree on some things and totally disagree on a lot of other points. I think the biggest takeaway from it though is what actually is Dark Souls? It became such an icon that it is basically its own genre of game but because of that it can become hard to really break it down to something more basic. You classified it as an Action/Adventure game where as I mostly classify it in my head as an Action/RPG. It can be more than either or, however what you perceive to be the primary components of the game really change how you feel about it. That major flaw you mentioned with the lore and story of the game and its characters are the primary reason why I consider it to be an RPG more than an Adventure game because you can still have a good RPG without a great story but a great Adventure game without a great story? I've never seen that before.
For me Adventure games are games that are driven by the story and once you have gotten to the conclusion of that story that driving force is gone, I've played a lot of games where I beat the game or main story and I just never go back and play it again because I know the story, I know everything that is going to happen. There isn't anything driving me forward to look for answers, no more mysteries to solve or hard decisions I'm waiting for characters to make. You can play through the entirety of Dark Souls and never even know that there are multiple paths that characters can take. Maybe you kill the guy at firelink, never save lautrec and thus nothing ever happens to the fire keeper, maybe you never interact with the other characters or save them to even know that they have stories or move to different areas as you progress through the game.
Thanks mate, I'm glad you enjoyed it! I certainly agree that the expectations that come with a genre can effect how successful you think the game was with respect to those expectations, but Dark Souls definitely uses RPG elements on top of the Action-Adventure aspects too.
And I would disagree with your statement that you can't have a good Adventure game without a good story. I've played a few that fit that description pretty well. Whether it's a game where the story isn't very engaging like the Legend of Zelda, or if it's a basically impenetrable story like in the Myst series, these games still nail their atmosphere so well that the story almost isn't needed. Actually, Journey is another good example of this imo, where the world building and atmosphere is so strong, that it's kinda all you need to keep you playing.
Thanks for watching it mate, glad you got something out of it!
We rise
In every game every save file is unavoidably a its own timeline, its own alternate reality -- possibly very similar, possibly completely different with a totally different dragonborn, pair of source hunters, family of sims, or even whole different world to mine. Like many other things usually written off as just being a game, Dark Souls works this into the lore with its stagnant and convoluted multi-dimensional time and parallel worlds, mixing in the rationale for its multiplayer aspects.
Finally someone mentioned the anor Londo new player issue of not figuring out to walk on the pillar that looks like you'll slide right off the hit box. That happened to me on my first playthrough, I was so confused on were to go in anor Londo till I either saw a player message or searched it up.
Good video but never heard anyone complain that online messages are "spoilers" I really like the dev messages and other players helping you out cause like you said there's a lot of lack of guidance n confusion but the messages can help u with that. Sadly can't play online if I'm on PC to many hackers
Great Video! Really enjoyed it! I often describe Dark Souls 1 as a flawed masterpiece and felt you captured that sentiment to a tee.
Well earned sub from me, look forward to more videos!
EDIT: To answer your request for info on reaching a yellow fog wall. I first encountered it in the Demon Ruins as assumed that was the way to go after Quelaag. Thankfully not as punishing a run back as Tomb of the Giants haha!
So you think the messages are handholding but want to be told exactly where to go? Don’t really see your point with that one but definitely agree with a lot of your issues in the second act of the game haha
Ah shit, here we go again
i also started playing ds1 way late too (during covid) and i put in sooo many hours in since that i was almost gonna shit on you for being dumb until i realized that i made many of the same mistakes you did but forgot because i got so gud lmao, great vid!
Only had true fun with DS1 after 10 years and after DS3 Bloodborne and Elden Ring specially because it was simpler and less convoluted, same can be said about demon souls for me.
My very first play through ended after Bell Gargoyles for the exact reason you detailed.
I played the game near release day as well so there wasn’t much in the way of online forums to help.
I absolutely love Dark Souls, but can’t deny that is a horrible part of the game without any guidance.
No critique needed, thanks though.
an elevator would have fixed everything wrong with the Catacombs/Tomb of the Giants path. I spent so much time down there because I heard the great scythe was a good weapon, and working back up is so fucking miserable. I think the unintuitive progression path after the Gargoyles is unfortunately an essential part of playing Dark Souls, and developing an understanding of what Fromsoft expects from you. It's easy to gloss over the key to the lower burg, and when someone tells you the actual path (either intuiting it based on player messages, or just having a friend tell you, which I sincerely believe are the "intended solutions") you know from then on to pay more attention to what items you pick up.
As far as magic being overpowered goes, I always felt like that was their serendipitous solution for an easy mode. Like other "easy mode" mechanics like player summons or bonfire kindling, it's entirely contingent on player choice to take full advantage of. It's not particularly elegant, since you only find out it's extremely powerful after deciding to build around it, and if you're having trouble with a melee build you effectively need to start a new game to make full use of it.
Good video : )
I almost broke my phone when he couldnt doge manus dark attack silver pendant
You've very accurately discerned problematic areas, but you're coming to the game with the wrong expectations. Dark Souls isn't about that feeling of accomplishment after beating a boss. It's about the communal effort to beat the game. The sense of community is more tangible at the launch, rather than a decade later when you're mostly only going to encounter invaders using twink builds. Unfortunately, the marketing of Prepare to Die didn't help with that, and the graveyard is actually a very common player quit point.
Many of the online mechanics are recycled from Demon's Souls, where they make much more sense thematically. They were carried over to the later games because it was the experience Fromsoft wanted to keep making. Unfortunately, this iterative process with how they design their games has made them become somewhat change blind. A good example would be the invasion system, which has virtually no reason to exist in Elden Ring, a game with no tangible rewards for invading other than to troll inexperienced players. All the tools that create the experiences Fromsoft wants the players to have are there, but there's no reason to engage with any of them.
Dark souls is the gaming equivalent of a James Joyce novel. It’s the finnegans wake of videogames
I'm surprisingly not seeing this is the comments so I'll leave this myself. Your issues with Capra Demon and dodging Manus's magic both have a shared solution.
Know when to drop your lock on. In both circumstances this is hurting way more than it's helping.
In Capra's arena its limiting your movements more in an already restricted space. In the Manus fights when he casts the ring you can turn to face the ring and roll forward through it much more consistently than trying to back roll into something you can't see.
Lock on can be a strong tool when it is helpful but leaning on it all the time is a detriment to your performance.
Im just here to listen to how the second half sucks ass. (it mostly does IMO)
Dude why the sudden influx of about 200 dark souls retrospectives
Another N64 game i think is similar in style is OOT
Yeah, that's a great point! Very much has that feeling of slowly peeling away at this larger world and discovering hidden areas and regions.
100% agree!
@@PolarBear084 yeah exactly! There's even a time travel aspect between the two games!
100% agreed on the multiplayer elements. Someone had to say it.
I mean this politely and constructively, but your cadence is a bit too slow for me. I liked it a lot better at 1.25 speed, though if it was closer to 1.2 that would be best I think. Good video though!
Hey thanks for the feedback! Apologies the voice over was a little too slow for you. I think I was deliberately trying to be measured in my delivery because I have a tendancy to talk fast when I'm passionately explaining my thoughts on something, so there's a good chance I over corrected.
I'm glad you were able to make it work by speeding it up in the TH-cam player though, and that you enjoyed the video! I'll try to work on my cadence for the next review for sure!
Oh yeah I totally get that, I watched a video recently on demons souls where the cadence was too fast, it’s a difficult balance I think. Usually when I watch videos like this I try to think of constructive feedback on the video instead of focusing entirely on the game itself. I think feedback on video essays is important and sometimes people focus on assertions people make and aren't aware of all the effort and thought behind the whole thing.
I disagree with sooo much of this video, but alas, it is lengthy video about Dark Souls, so I must watch it
also i think the "you were taken by the abyss" text WAS supposed to appear when you died while dropping into the 4 kings, but there's some bug in the code where the game treats it as fall damage because they wanted there to be a kill plane there so that you wouldn't get spoiled on the boss fight before you were actually able to fight them.
it's silly to even need the ring without it being elaborated by anyone in the game, it would make more sense if the abyss just did constant damage or something. four kings and the covenant of artorias is DS1's version of DS2's "you need to burn the metal windmill to drain the poison from the boss room" of earthen peak and the medusa lady, or DS3's greirat getting killed in his trip to irithyll, like realistically there's just no way to know, you're probably not doing it without a guide.
i think the games were 100% made with internet guides taken into account, they wanted it to be a communal experience for us, the proverbial "single player multiplayer game" similar to how pokemon was when we were kids, they wanted people to get stuck and ask their friends so they could have more people tapping into the community aspect and sharing the experience with their friends, because ain't no way they're expecting a grown man with a 9-5 job to be spending dozens of hours reading item descriptions until he figures out the one obscure item that lets him survive an otherwise lethal fall, after just intuiting that a mandatory boss fight is down there because of the fog gate, people talk about reaching the painted world being contrived, but at least crestfallen warrior tells you about the bird carrying someone, you came here on a bird, you can see the bird's nest, you can see the path to get there, and then again there's a whole room where everyone is called a "painting guardian" and there's a giant painting they're guarding, it's reasonable to not have been back to the asylum by that point, but even then, you know the painting is there when you get the doll and read about a "cold and lonely painted world", this must be the key, that's 100% reasonable for someone to find that organically.
or even the DLC, people think that's obscure, there's a giant blue golem sitting in the corner on time out in the duke's archives, it's not particularly subtle, maybe freeing dusk is a little subtle? but again, if you turn your camera to see what part of the lake is walkable, it's pretty clear that there's a path going to the back, it's totally reasonable for someone to find the DLC by themselves.
but the ring dropped by the dog in darkeoot garden, it was his covenant with the abyss, that must stop me from dying to this lethal drop, how does that even make sense, 100% of people were either told about it or just googled it. not cool to have a mandatory boss hidden behind a random lock and key that bear very little outward relation to each other
I feel like a lot of your criticisms come from a personal preference, which you do state at some points. This mostly is about your opinions on the multi-player features, but i think the fact that ghosts, bloodstains, and messages are virtually unchanged to this day and are to many people (myself included) a fundamental part of the world, indicates that they are a good part of the game, and you "getting distracted" by ghosts is much more of a personal issue, and that is why offline mode is great. If you dont want the online features, they are optional, and very easy to turn off. To use those systems which are almost universally loved (at least in my experience, i have never heard anyone else voice the same opinion of dislike for them) as a criticism of the game feels more like a nitpick from a preference stance, not a game criticism. Overall i liked the video a lot, but it definitely does feel like a video from the side of someone who is on the periphery of the community yelling into the center, as most of what i agree with has been hashed out well before now by others, and a lot of your unique takes i would consider to fall under the "hot takes" category
This feels to me like a classic case of someone trying to bend the game after their will instead of actually adjusting yourself to it instead. You don't notice how the window is open in Anor Londo because you don't look, your own personal expectations are blatant in this critique as your abhorrently subjective opinion about what's flawed and what isn't is exclusively about what you personally like better.
About online elements: again your own personal opinion about what you believe is their reasoning. They are all explained in-game with reasons, so the fact that you state that these mechanics don't play to the game's strength is nothing but a personal opinion out of ignorance. It's like you don't know anything about the lore, yet feel like you have a firm grasp of what's good and bad. You explain everything you don't like as artificial difficulty or flawed (without reasoning).
About the manus fight: Cheesing a boss mechanic is not the same as avoiding damage by utilizing openings in their attack hitboxes, what are you on about? Do you think having a counter-mechanic AS WELL AS a way to avoid the dmg without it is them "phoning it in"?
Also I realized I came off as quite crass in this comment, your video obviously took a lot of work and you make a lot of interesting points. Hope I didn't come off as too mean-spirited. Keep up the good work!
I really do think your argument of "I got backseated and was fine, but this game is so horrible for the people who didn't get backseated (but would presumably not have played any differently than I have, ensured by the vague live-fed approval of my chat at any given point), I'm _sure_ they exist!" holds exactly zero water. Yes, Dark Souls has a horrible and misleading reputation of _just being difficult_. Yes, I'm also sure that people exist who soldiered on all the way to the bottom of Tomb just to be told "no". But I think you _vastly_ overestimate how many people did that, based on your assumption that world design and lore are things to be discarded by default, and looked at at your leisure when you want some light distraction. Same thing with Artorias' grave and the abyss ring, and same with Nito and divine damage. Most people who play Dark Souls do not have chat to guide them, but they have bloodstains, ghosts, messages of questionable trustworthiness, and the ability and willingness to extrapolate a bit from what NPCs literally tell you.
Magic being OP is a tired trope in the Dark Souls 1 discussion space at this point and you, like many, many before you, have fallen into the same trap, as you tried to gauge the difficulty of a first-time magic playthrough on a second attempt through the game. Already knowing what timings are safe, what enemies can leap or are stuck in place for a while even when they have freedom to act as they wish, and most importantly, how much progress you have made towards the next bonfire compared to the resources you have expended. If you have all that knowledge, any of the Black Knight weapons will carry you just as hard as magic does, with no real downside or even resource restriction other than estus, which is easily mitigated by the now suddenly plentiful humanity since you know where to find it and into which bonfires you want to invest. I'd recommend watching a blind magic playthrough on youtube for context, but the pervasiveness of "magic op, don't play that" has made them a rare sight. I can point you to ArachCobra for a PTDE playthrough though the quality is kinda shit, or to CarlPlaying42 for a much more recent livestream playthrough of Remastered.
I really wanted to like this critique based on some things you bring up in the first half that I hadn't seen in this light before, and I really do try to be open to criticism even if this comment definitely makes it seem otherwise, but honestly, the second half is less meaningful critique and more airing your immediate frustrations with your playthrough. "I refused to interact with Nito's boss mechanic even after understanding what it is, and even after the game tried its hardest to tell me to reconsider without outright making it impossible", truly, the game that you praise for not being entirely linear is at fault here.
Nah man scripted invasions only on ng+ is not a good idea. I'm definitely down for more invasions in NG+, hence DS2 ng+. For so many reasons. It's a fundamental part of the mechanics and lore of the game. Especially if you're someone in a more remote or poorer part of the world trying to get the full dark souls experience.
You have to remember the context and time this game was released, it's necessary to understand anything your friend might call a work of art.
It definitely has its flaws but the vision and execution is what people nowadays call art. There're so many fair criticisms for Dark Souls but so many of your points here don't touch on them. Not to mention how the community has changed.
Seriously, you might as well just find a Van Gough or something and talk about what they could have done better.