I come here because i own a dc5, a studio 22+ combo and a mesa mesa pre studio. They all work but after watching few videos about Mesa i am gonna take all of them to a check. I don't understand nothing about electronic but i know at least to look for burn caps or pcb. Thank you so much sir for all the info.
I truly appreciate your forward commentary and honesty about Mesa designs, and other brands as well, because now I know. Before I discovered your channel, I purchased a mesa Fillmore 50 combo because it just sounded so good to me, still does sound great but if it weren’t for you Ide be lost in mesa fan boy world so thank you.
This is quickly becoming my favorite amp repair channel. Thankfully it just showed up in my suggestions one day. I find it funny that while so many channels are making blanket statement, clickbait "why you SHOULDN'T USE STANDBY" titled videos, you're out here proving that in some cases, it certainly is important. I gave up amp teching a while ago, and I miss working on amps occasionally, but I certainly don't miss mesas.
Ive never been a fan of Mesa's and I refuse to work on them and everytime i see a video like this it reminds me to not change my mind and take any of these in to repair haha ! Thanks ;-)
Looking at more problems in the future. Another bean counter product. Guess in a world where time and money are not an issue...🤔 Thanks for the guide through the insides of this amp.😎👍 Learning something new everytime, every video 😎👍❤🖖
The good Brad recently redid his classic 30 with new diy pcb and other extras to make a good but problematic amp just good. Man I would love to do that with one of these babies.
I was going to start this comment with "I wish I had seen this about a year ago, before I bought a dead DC3 from a buddy for slightly more than the Vintage 30 that's in it." However, as it turned out, the DC3 was a great amp to learn on for me b/c it had so much wrong with it. Every issue you mention here I encountered in the DC3, plus many more that I am sure you and Brad from BGG cover in other videos. Currently mine is about 99% complete. I gave up trying to figure out why the Reverb is quieter on the gain channel than the clean channel. Not a big deal for me since it is the wet side in my W/D setup with a DRRI.
Using caps at greater than 80% of rating is short sighted . Thus if it sees 500 volts a 630 volt cap is prudent . Using 105C will live much longer than 85c on the order of at least a factor of 4 or more.
Hello, I am really enjoying your channel! I recently purchased a used Mesa DC-5 head and am really enjoying it! Overall it's in good condition, and everything works perfectly *except* the graphic EQ, which stubbornly refuses to activate. I have the older (original) spec DC-5 head, with the multi-position rotary switch on the back panel for assigning the graphic EQ. I tested the switch and it seems to be electrically fine. However, no matter what position the switch is set to, the graphic EQ will not engage. I also tried plugging in a footswitch to control it that way, and no dice. So I am suspicious that it's a failed relay or other switching component on the PC board. Would have have any specific advice about where to look, or which specific component to replace?
I fully agree with you regarding the design and construction of the Mesa amps and I have no personal interest other than my interest in seeing “iconic” American music industry brands do well. Have you contacted Gibson? They should hire you (or someone) as a consultant to get the products right for the future.
Too bad some folks just don't get it. Ownership bias is a terrible thing. Just because you want to like a product, doesn't mean its a quality product or has good design. Time is the great equalizer. After years of trying amps that were supposed to sound like the old ones. I now just have the old ones and keep up on the maintenance.
I thought the primary purpose of Underwriters Laboratory is to evaluate electrical gear to ensure it cannot INSTANTLY spark a fire and burn a residence or business down. You'd think however that part of certification would involve a basic review of a design to catch issues like using 400 volt rated capacitors in a circuit design that will predictably / consistently exceed that by 25%. That's a sign the maker is likely failing in more subtle areas of design as well. Apparently, a UL certification implies little about the true electrical safety / longevity of a product.
Do you know if the original run of the DC-5 had the two channel select lights and then stopped having them or did they not have them early on and added them for later production. One of mine has them and the other 2 do not. Always wondered which was original.
I'm gathering info to put things together. Those videos take a lot of time and planning. I think I'm going to break it up into categories for the more expensive amps. No sense comparing a Deluxe Reverb to a Marshall 100W to some channel changing fx loop equipped "do it all" amp. So probably Low Gain Amps, High Gain Amps, and Multi-Channel amps for categories. Or something along those lines.
@@PsionicAudio looks like a lot of work goes into them all right .. the other two videos you did were brilliant, very informative.. Looking forward to parts 3 ,4,5 and 6 .. 7 -8 -9 and 10 😁 You have a cool channel.. We appreciate all the information 🙏 And thanks for replying 😎
The price of Mesa amps here in the UK is so high and the workmanship on the inside really doesn't seem justify the price. Growing up Mesa were the amp to have in the metal scene and I always felt that my JCM2000 was inferior. Nowadays I wouldn't swap the old Marshall for anything.
I've always romanticized Mesas bc I remember seeing their logo on the sleeves of Metallica records. If it wasn't for the info you provide I would have never known of the shoddy product they provide. And that they smell like cat piss to boot!
Hey I came across your channel and dig the info. I have a Mesa boogie dc 5 that’s making an awful rf interference type beep and boops noise, makes the noise with no guitar plugged in. Could I email you for some help?
WHAT!? YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT NOT EVERY SINGLE AMP IS GREAT AND FANTASTIC!? YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT LAYOUT, NOISE FLOOR, THERMAL, MECHANICAL, AND COMPONENT RATING CONSIDERATIONS MATTER!? You must be a hater. All the other review channels love all the amps so much that they keep them all! However they never did say how much they paid for them.
I recently acquired a California Tweed 4:40. This was before I ran across this channel and I must admit it makes me a little nervous. It’s sounds amazing. A little high in noise floor. But I hope nothing fails prematurely. 😮
@@jacobmcentire1649 So you like the amp? In the reviews I’ve watched online it sounds great. I’m just nervous about sinking that much money into something that isn’t built well and that I’ll need to keep taking for repairs. Plus, an amp that no tech wants to touch.
Do these issues (poor design and poor build quality) plague all models equally? For example, the JP-2C is a very expensive amp marketed as a premium product. Is it prone to the same issues?
What's your opinion on my Marshall TSL 602? I was going to upgrade to a Mesa but now thinking not. What upgrades can I do to make my amp a heavy metal beast?
Don’t rule out the Badlander they are amazing amps I’ve been playing Boogies for 40+ years I’ve never had any of these problems and I am a full-time touring pro. My latest one is a Badlander 100 head and a oversize recto 4/12.
@@PsionicAudio what solid state amp with high headroom would you recommend as a pedal platform? Thanks for responding, by the way, brotha. Love your channel!
It depends on the features and volume you need. And your musical tastes. I could say a Top Hat Club Royale, a Swart Space Reverb, and a Friedman Runt 20. All of which are correct answers, but none of them may suit your needs, which I don't know.
@@PsionicAudio Thank. you, I have had quite a few Mesa's, But now use a Engl Thunder 50 and a PRS MT-15. I was thinking of a new Mesa is why i ask, the California, for a good pedal platform to replace the Engl. I assumed the Friedman lower end stuff would be not amazing. Thanks for you thoughts.
I found the Mark III to be the least crappy Mesa for my purposes. And it doesn't have the hype and exhorbitant cost of the Mark II/C. Still has a ton of silly decisions and all the problems mentioned by Lyle in this video though. Every Mesa does. And they stubbornly continue on making those mistakes, and will probably until their demise.
Like a previous comment, I also have a Fillmore 50. It’s a great sounding amp. Probably the best sounding amp I’ve ever owned. Have you had the pleasure of working on one, what is your opinion on them? Years ago I worked for a Mesa retailer and saw many Dual Recs fail. I started calling them Dual Rectum-fryers.
I don’t just dislike Mesa’s, I dislike all crappy, poorly designed, cheap amps. Whenever you get another Mesa in with roached PI caps, cut them open and unroll them. The plates of the cap are absolutely blown through full of holes from the years of over voltage. It would make a good video and prove the point.
Too, I was listening to a podcast where the guy was talking about how Dumble used to use silicone and epoxy to obscure the construction of his amps. If true, this is really effed up bc doesn't that mean that they're unserviceable or require a lot more labor too fix? I suppose if one could afford a Dumble or a Mesa for that matter one can afford the service bill. Still pretty messed up and cynical, though.
Your concerns are legit. I used to think MESA was good stuff. Boutique in fact. Not anymore. I can see with my own eyes, their stuff is not worth what they are charging for it. I think all tube amps are overpriced now.
A very crowded marketplace and intense competition for people's finite expendable wealth has lead to this kind of (overly?) complex design across the board as companies rush to offer more features at a given price point than the next guy. I assume the margins are fairly thin at the manufacturer level. That said, I had a dc5 and I miss the hell out of it. I'd repair one but your mileage may vary.
Nostalgia , cheap and do survive large voltage spikes . The problems of drift, large amount of noise and heat far out weigh the reason to use them . To manufacture products after 1980 with 1940 passive parts is wrong.
No. Even the less bad ones have tantalum caps not rated for realistic voltage, carbon composites just where they shouldn't be used, and 400v coupling caps as seen here. And generally shoddy construction.
@@PsionicAudio thanks for the response. I own a mark iii and an old two channel dual rectifier, perhaps I should think about getting some of the parts replaced preemptively.
@@notasilicaanimus To be fair, Lyle was forthrightly positive about the Mesa Satellite 60 : th-cam.com/video/zsLg399I5Ss/w-d-xo.html So it seems it can happen. ;-) He explains the reservations he has even about that model quite clearly, though.
You make your living repairing guitar amps. Why would you point out the flaws in design & execution on Mesas? Because you're the one that's gotta explain to the amp's owner what failed, why, and how much it's gonna cost HIM to fix. Additionally, you can't guarantee some other bonehead mistake in it won't fail in the future. That's my assessment and opinion... it has no other value other than it's mine, and I'm gonna keep it! 🙂
I have been playing Mesa Boogies for nearly 30 years. The DC5 is by far the worst Mesa I have ever owned. I love the sound of Mesa amps, but they are a bear to work on.
![แฉ [2/4] 12 ก.ค. 67 เจ้าของไวรัลดังในโซเชียล 'ลิลลี่ เหงียน' ฝันอยากเข้าวงการ โดนหลอกสารพัด | GMM25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7zntQK2U8-8/mqdefault.jpg)
I come here because i own a dc5, a studio 22+ combo and a mesa mesa pre studio.
They all work but after watching few videos about Mesa i am gonna take all of them to a check.
I don't understand nothing about electronic but i know at least to look for burn caps or pcb.
Thank you so much sir for all the info.
DC5 vs studio 22+ … which do you like better and which has a nicer high gain (smoother) ??
I really appreciate your honest assessments of build quality and serviceability.
I truly appreciate your forward commentary and honesty about Mesa designs, and other brands as well, because now I know. Before I discovered your channel, I purchased a mesa Fillmore 50 combo because it just sounded so good to me, still does sound great but if it weren’t for you Ide be lost in mesa fan boy world so thank you.
Thanks, and I hope the Fillmore never gives you any problems.
I own a Mesa Fillmore 50 combo as well. I love the sound, but I also am keeping my fingers crossed. Nervous giggle ensues.
This is quickly becoming my favorite amp repair channel. Thankfully it just showed up in my suggestions one day. I find it funny that while so many channels are making blanket statement, clickbait "why you SHOULDN'T USE STANDBY" titled videos, you're out here proving that in some cases, it certainly is important. I gave up amp teching a while ago, and I miss working on amps occasionally, but I certainly don't miss mesas.
There is a general sentiment across many tech channels that is a collective sigh when they show up in need of repair.
Ive never been a fan of Mesa's and I refuse to work on them and everytime i see a video like this it reminds me to not change my mind and take any of these in to repair haha ! Thanks ;-)
Looking at more problems in the future.
Another bean counter product.
Guess in a world where time and money are not an issue...🤔
Thanks for the guide through the insides of this amp.😎👍
Learning something new everytime, every video 😎👍❤🖖
Honesty, integrity 👍🏼 Like.
I do like my king snake boogie. I rehoused it in a custom headset. It's a mk1 style. My favourite amp
The good Brad recently redid his classic 30 with new diy pcb and other extras to make a good but problematic amp just good. Man I would love to do that with one of these babies.
Country Brad is a solid dude.
I'm as layman as it gets, and my God does that look like a mess in there.
That mess is nothing compared to the mess inside the Mark V.
@CFChristian - Messa Engineering? 😁
I was going to start this comment with "I wish I had seen this about a year ago, before I bought a dead DC3 from a buddy for slightly more than the Vintage 30 that's in it." However, as it turned out, the DC3 was a great amp to learn on for me b/c it had so much wrong with it. Every issue you mention here I encountered in the DC3, plus many more that I am sure you and Brad from BGG cover in other videos. Currently mine is about 99% complete. I gave up trying to figure out why the Reverb is quieter on the gain channel than the clean channel. Not a big deal for me since it is the wet side in my W/D setup with a DRRI.
I can only imagine what the quality will be once Gibson management has its way with Mesa.
😔
Sounds like they designed a Mega Booger :)
Anyone ever tell you that you would have made a great coroner?
Using caps at greater than 80% of rating is short sighted . Thus if it sees 500 volts a 630 volt cap is prudent . Using 105C will live much longer than 85c on the order of at least a factor of 4 or more.
Hello, I am really enjoying your channel! I recently purchased a used Mesa DC-5 head and am really enjoying it! Overall it's in good condition, and everything works perfectly *except* the graphic EQ, which stubbornly refuses to activate. I have the older (original) spec DC-5 head, with the multi-position rotary switch on the back panel for assigning the graphic EQ. I tested the switch and it seems to be electrically fine. However, no matter what position the switch is set to, the graphic EQ will not engage. I also tried plugging in a footswitch to control it that way, and no dice. So I am suspicious that it's a failed relay or other switching component on the PC board. Would have have any specific advice about where to look, or which specific component to replace?
I fully agree with you regarding the design and construction of the Mesa amps and I have no personal interest other than my interest in seeing “iconic” American music industry brands do well. Have you contacted Gibson? They should hire you (or someone) as a consultant to get the products right for the future.
I studied about transistors, capacitors, etc., while studying for my HAM radio license but I don't have any practical experience.
Too bad some folks just don't get it. Ownership bias is a terrible thing. Just because you want to like a product, doesn't mean its a quality product or has good design. Time is the great equalizer. After years of trying amps that were supposed to sound like the old ones. I now just have the old ones and keep up on the maintenance.
You can, however, acknowledge the flaws in a product and like it anyway. It's your money after all.
I thought the primary purpose of Underwriters Laboratory is to evaluate electrical gear to ensure it cannot INSTANTLY spark a fire and burn a residence or business down. You'd think however that part of certification would involve a basic review of a design to catch issues like using 400 volt rated capacitors in a circuit design that will predictably / consistently exceed that by 25%. That's a sign the maker is likely failing in more subtle areas of design as well. Apparently, a UL certification implies little about the true electrical safety / longevity of a product.
The UL label just means that the manufacturer paid the registration fee to UL.
@@jcool0122 not necessarily. I see Intertek/ETL certifications on products that there's just no way UL would ever certify.
Do you know if the original run of the DC-5 had the two channel select lights and then stopped having them or did they not have them early on and added them for later production. One of mine has them and the other 2 do not. Always wondered which was original.
Q. Are you any closer on doing video on high end amps , great show .. its good to hear an honest opinion 😎
I'm gathering info to put things together. Those videos take a lot of time and planning. I think I'm going to break it up into categories for the more expensive amps. No sense comparing a Deluxe Reverb to a Marshall 100W to some channel changing fx loop equipped "do it all" amp. So probably Low Gain Amps, High Gain Amps, and Multi-Channel amps for categories. Or something along those lines.
@@PsionicAudio looks like a lot of work goes into them all right .. the other two videos you did were brilliant, very informative..
Looking forward to parts 3 ,4,5 and 6 .. 7 -8 -9 and 10 😁
You have a cool channel..
We appreciate all the information 🙏
And thanks for replying 😎
The price of Mesa amps here in the UK is so high and the workmanship on the inside really doesn't seem justify the price. Growing up Mesa were the amp to have in the metal scene and I always felt that my JCM2000 was inferior. Nowadays I wouldn't swap the old Marshall for anything.
Did you have to remove the PCB to replace the orange drops? If not, can you outline the process? Asking for a friend :(.
What is a greatly designed amp or amp manufacturer?
I've always romanticized Mesas bc I remember seeing their logo on the sleeves of Metallica records. If it wasn't for the info you provide I would have never known of the shoddy product they provide. And that they smell like cat piss to boot!
Hey I came across your channel and dig the info. I have a Mesa boogie dc 5 that’s making an awful rf interference type beep and boops noise, makes the noise with no guitar plugged in. Could I email you for some help?
WHAT!? YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT NOT EVERY SINGLE AMP IS GREAT AND FANTASTIC!?
YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT LAYOUT, NOISE FLOOR, THERMAL, MECHANICAL, AND COMPONENT RATING CONSIDERATIONS MATTER!?
You must be a hater.
All the other review channels love all the amps so much that they keep them all!
However they never did say how much they paid for them.
What about the California Tweed models? They sound great. I’m just cautious about Mesas.
I recently acquired a California Tweed 4:40.
This was before I ran across this channel and I must admit it makes me a little nervous.
It’s sounds amazing. A little high in noise floor. But I hope nothing fails prematurely. 😮
@@jacobmcentire1649 So you like the amp? In the reviews I’ve watched online it sounds great. I’m just nervous about sinking that much money into something that isn’t built well and that I’ll need to keep taking for repairs. Plus, an amp that no tech wants to touch.
Strange. Most Orange drop caps I've encountered in Mesas (and elsewhere are rated at 600Vdc.
Check that again. Almost every Mesa is chock full of 400Vs.
Do these issues (poor design and poor build quality) plague all models equally? For example, the JP-2C is a very expensive amp marketed as a premium product. Is it prone to the same issues?
I don't get why you would use conformal coating in this kind of device. A well designed chassis can block EMI, right?
It's to keep the copper traces and pads from oxidizing and becoming corroded. Nothing to do with EMI.
What's your opinion on my Marshall TSL 602? I was going to upgrade to a Mesa but now thinking not. What upgrades can I do to make my amp a heavy metal beast?
overdrive pedal, eq pedal, or buy a different amp.
Okay. So, I guess I'm going to rule out a Mesa Badlander. What do you think about the build quality of Engl?
Don’t rule out the Badlander they are amazing amps I’ve been playing Boogies for 40+ years I’ve never had any of these problems and I am a full-time touring pro. My latest one is a Badlander 100 head and a oversize recto 4/12.
What do you think of the Roland Jazz Chorus series, Lyle?
I think it was fantastic in its day. These days it’s a heavy noisy one trick pony with low headroom and no real control over the chorus.
@@PsionicAudio what solid state amp with high headroom would you recommend as a pedal platform?
Thanks for responding, by the way, brotha.
Love your channel!
in your opinion, what's a good amp that is in a Mesa Price range $1200-$1800?
It depends on the features and volume you need. And your musical tastes. I could say a Top Hat Club Royale, a Swart Space Reverb, and a Friedman Runt 20. All of which are correct answers, but none of them may suit your needs, which I don't know.
@@PsionicAudio Thank. you, I have had quite a few Mesa's, But now use a Engl Thunder 50 and a PRS MT-15. I was thinking of a new Mesa is why i ask, the California, for a good pedal platform to replace the Engl. I assumed the Friedman lower end stuff would be not amazing. Thanks for you thoughts.
I found the Mark III to be the least crappy Mesa for my purposes.
And it doesn't have the hype and exhorbitant cost of the Mark II/C.
Still has a ton of silly decisions and all the problems mentioned by Lyle in this video though.
Every Mesa does. And they stubbornly continue on making those mistakes, and will probably until their demise.
@@BradsGuitarGarage My first Mesa was a Mark III, had several after and the only one I regret selling is a DC-3. thanks for commenting
Like a previous comment, I also have a Fillmore 50. It’s a great sounding amp. Probably the best sounding amp I’ve ever owned. Have you had the pleasure of working on one, what is your opinion on them? Years ago I worked for a Mesa retailer and saw many Dual Recs fail. I started calling them Dual Rectum-fryers.
Not yet - still a newish model, most are still under warranty. I get em when Mesa doesn't want them anymore...
I don’t just dislike Mesa’s, I dislike all crappy, poorly designed, cheap amps.
Whenever you get another Mesa in with roached PI caps, cut them open and unroll them.
The plates of the cap are absolutely blown through full of holes from the years of over voltage.
It would make a good video and prove the point.
Too, I was listening to a podcast where the guy was talking about how Dumble used to use silicone and epoxy to obscure the construction of his amps. If true, this is really effed up bc doesn't that mean that they're unserviceable or require a lot more labor too fix? I suppose if one could afford a Dumble or a Mesa for that matter one can afford the service bill. Still pretty messed up and cynical, though.
Your concerns are legit. I used to think MESA was good stuff. Boutique in fact. Not anymore.
I can see with my own eyes, their stuff is not worth what they are charging for it. I think all tube amps are overpriced now.
Unfortunately junk is junk. It's getting harder and harder to find a decent amp with decent build quality 😕
Considering the poor quality of pots used in this Mesa amp, which pot brand would you recommend?
Probably Alpha
@@PsionicAudio Thanks Lyle!
Why are amplifiers over complicated? I would think simple would sound better.
A very crowded marketplace and intense competition for people's finite expendable wealth has lead to this kind of (overly?) complex design across the board as companies rush to offer more features at a given price point than the next guy. I assume the margins are fairly thin at the manufacturer level.
That said, I had a dc5 and I miss the hell out of it. I'd repair one but your mileage may vary.
Consistently baffled by using carbon comps for screen resistors. Like... of all the options, why that?
Because the Fenders Mesa started out modding had them is my guess. They fail in Fenders too.
Nostalgia , cheap and do survive large voltage spikes . The problems of drift, large amount of noise and heat far out weigh the reason to use them . To manufacture products after 1980 with 1940 passive parts is wrong.
Are any Mesa amps well designed/built, in your opinion?
No. Even the less bad ones have tantalum caps not rated for realistic voltage, carbon composites just where they shouldn't be used, and 400v coupling caps as seen here. And generally shoddy construction.
@@PsionicAudio thanks for the response. I own a mark iii and an old two channel dual rectifier, perhaps I should think about getting some of the parts replaced preemptively.
@@notasilicaanimus To be fair, Lyle was forthrightly positive about the Mesa Satellite 60 : th-cam.com/video/zsLg399I5Ss/w-d-xo.html
So it seems it can happen. ;-) He explains the reservations he has even about that model quite clearly, though.
I've never been a fan of Mesas.
You make your living repairing guitar amps. Why would you point out the flaws in design & execution on Mesas? Because you're the one that's gotta explain to the amp's owner what failed, why, and how much it's gonna cost HIM to fix. Additionally, you can't guarantee some other bonehead mistake in it won't fail in the future. That's my assessment and opinion... it has no other value other than it's mine, and I'm gonna keep it! 🙂
I have been playing Mesa Boogies for nearly 30 years. The DC5 is by far the worst Mesa I have ever owned. I love the sound of Mesa amps, but they are a bear to work on.
Why the worst ?
Volvo Amason is a much better car than a Volvo S90, because it is so much easier to repair…
Hey don't bash Mesa due to your weak skills.