The Lowdown on Aeromomentum Engines (Oshkosh 2019)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ค. 2024
- The display for Aeromomentum Engines at Airventure 2019 provided a unique opportunity to interview the owner and get the lowdown on all of his engine products now available. If you are in the market for an experimental engine for your homebuilt aircraft, this interview should prove valuable.
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Really nice work. It is exciting to see the AM20T being developed. Would love to see a package developed specifically for the RV-10 in the coming years.
Thanks for posting. I visited the AeroMomentum booth at Airventure and was very impressed. I am now seriously considering an AM15!
I’m going to run your newest engine! I need to shave 10 lbs off and it’s an absolute winner! I really like Marks honestly. He’s a straight shooter and he is developing excellent engines!
Great presentation, Mark.
Mark you are accomplishing some exciting things with this product line. I'm especially impressed with the numbers the RV12 is achieving. I hope to see how good the installed cowl looks on that 1.
FoesFlyDennis I was at Oshkosh and I saw it cowled. It looks exactly like a 912 does. They did a great job on the details here. There's another video on this channel explaining this install in depth and it's very impressive.
@@dragon2knight Thank you for the reply. I actually saw that RV12 Installation Detail video before finding this one and it really interested me. I really prefer the sportier looks and performance of the Arion Lighting and similar designs, compared to the more upright, comfort-focused lines of the RV12 but... I've yet to see such a compelling powerplant option on those airframes. I'm so interested in the advantages offered by Aeromomentum engines, I could be swayed by this very slick installation option.
That AM15 on a Belite Chipper would make a heck of a nice little back-country machine, and the AM20T on an SPA Cougar (when they finish it) would be a real hot rod. Now I'm going to have to build two planes!
DAMN, it mounts like the lycoming factory install man this maybe the engine for my RV-10!
Exactly, lycoming just raised prices substantially again. I think that's 50% in 3 years, and it's not like we were talking 20k when that happened, more like 40k to over 60k now. For what, old outdated technology?? I can't wait until companies like this start putting some heat on Lycoming and Continental.
I wish there was more in operation in the RV12 to see the reliability of this engine. This is one of the almost to good to be true scenarios.
That Suzuki engine is one of the most produced engines in the world. It's far far more reliable than any piston aircraft engine currently made. The engineering budget is just so much larger for an engine like this.
Mark's probably the smartest guy you'll ever meet.
You guys are having to much fun!
these questions are for the AM20T
1. can I fit my own Airmaster constant speed prop?
you said this has a flat power curve. is that saying it should be more used on cruiser typer planes or is it possible to use with stol and top cruise speed with constant speed prop?
and
2. is there room to fit an A/C compressor on the back and not interfere with the firewall?
and
3. do you need to have a header tank?
At what propeller RPM does the AM20T produce 260 hp?
Would love to see the engine in action and in the air.
Thank you for doing the leg work sweat tears and risk of being a small business to compete with Rotax. In my opinion, Rotax provided a need but since then has changed the homebuilt aircraft market for the worst. Designers got lazy and the price skyrocketed. Now only the rich people can play. Aero momentum offers a tried and proven engine as an alternative to buiiding a VW, Subaru or corvair engines. I’ve got a well used Lycoming and used is an option. If you are in the market Aeromomentum offers a great option to higher priced alternatives.
AM20T can you fly it inverted ?
Informative presentation.
Looking for a 170/180hp in a few years. Anything in the works?
Aeromomentum has been selling GEO-Suzuki conversions for many years now.
Any users here?
Any news or data on the reliability of these conversions?
Will any of these fit in a Vans RV7?
How bad is vibration in the three cylinder engine?
Making an engine mount that directly mates one of your engines to a Rotax 912 mount is a very, very good idea, but shouldn't it be the M13, not the M10? The M13 starts at 100HP and goes up (a little) from there. Personally, I want an RANS S7, and my home field is at 6600', so I reckon I need an engine rated about 120HP at sea level to get 100 out of it up here.
I thought the same thing.
I like these engines, but without kit manufacture support can you insure the hull of your aircraft? A sonex airframe is lower cost or do you just have liability insurance.
Watch out Rotax, you have some serious competition!
Especially with their price gouging.
Is there any information on gearbox reliability yet? This has been a weak link in auto conversions in the past. Thanks
The AM20T 260HP is the recommended engine for the Veloce 400. It looks impressive, but I'm just not used to seeing a liquid cooled engine in a plane. Is there any additional maintenance?
Sean i am also looking at this engine have you bought the 400 kit?
@@formula1junkie550 no, I have not bought any kit yet. I'm still researching and planning. It's going to be at least a year before I might be able to do this, but I want to find out as much as possible in the early stages. I'm not a mechanical guy, haven't tinkered with cars much and I've never done anything like this before. I've read a lot more since yesterday and I'm liking this engine a lot. If I go through with this, it will likely be with this engine.
@ i am an A&P and find this to be one of the easiest kits to build from what i have read. Stay in touch would like to know more about any experience on the kit process. I may order it come June 2022. This is as close as a cirrus 20 without the massive investment
@@formula1junkie550 Where you able to obtain a kit? I'm still about 9-12motnhs out before ordering. But would like to know someone who has ordered it. I love the looks of it and what seems to be an easier build compared to the RV-10.
Great presentation. Two unanswered questions . One - why do we not want a long stroke in an aircraft motor and two why would you derate your 2 liter motor to 260 hp is that so it will fit the Ch 801's specs ?
A long stroke means two undesirable things: higher piston speed for any RPM, and more stress on the piston/cylinder wall interface and the bearings because the connecting rods have to swing out to a greater angle because the crankshaft "throw" (equal to half the stroke) is greater. You can mitigate #2 by having longer rods, but that means a physically bigger block. You can't do anything about #1.
However a longer stroke equals a greater lever arm in the crankshaft and also more time for a complete fuel burn.
And therefore higher torque.
Torque specs at lower RPMs are critical as well because torque is as important at getting the plane into the air is horsepower. Possibly even more critical. You're making Peak torque at 3,000 RPM you don't have to run it at 6,000 RPM.
I like that you understand the critical nature of having port injection. Do you however make sure that you have a oil catch can. On any Turbo and or supercharged engine and oil catch can would be really nice to have. And of course you would need one that would dump its oil back into the sump, I know you carry a lot of extra oil on aircraft applications but it's nice to not put all that dirty crap back into the intake in the PCV system.
Can you run a constant speed prop on the AM20T?
Yes but due to the flat power curve it is not as needed.
I got plans for that 260hp
Is there a air mix valve in the abs intake manifold. If so how has the vibration being addressed. In the auto version the baffles become loose due to vibration and fall into the intake manifold.
Aeromomentum is not using the abs intake manifold.
If only one can use the M139 from Mercedes. That 2.0 has a version that comes with 400+hp stock.
I go with a subura motor or honfa
I have ordered an AM15 for my Aventura II kit that is being built as I write. Follow the build and my training videos on the Blue Footed Booby TH-cam Channel beginning early in 2022!
I wonder why they chose the Hyundai engine over the Honda K20. Core availability?
Hyundai?
@@timi707_1 The AM20T is a Hyundai Theta engine.
Probably so there's no direct competition and issues with Viking.
@@jrbailey3208 Viking doesn't use the K20.
@@PistonAvatarGuy
The model isn't the issue, the Manufacturer IS the issue: Viking is known as the "Honda Engine' producer.
Should Aeromomentum use a Honda product, ANY Honda product, it would give propaganda fodder to Viking to say "See, even our competitors believe Honda to be a superior product line."
Marketing problems and accents are really important in a psychological manner.
I take your point on the specifics, but a LOT of people wouldn't take the time to 'get in the weeds'; so it'd end up just being 'bad optics' for Aeromomentum to use any Honda products.
Cheers.
Why do you believe that a properly balanced engine with a long stroke would be a problem. It would easily put out more torque and be able to push a more heavily articulated prop then a short stroke engine it's loses its torque value and of course would burn more fuel?
Do you use automotive oil or aircraft grade motor oil. Kendall motor oil should take considerably more temperature than 300°. Amsoil would be wonderful for reducing wear and I believe it's also capable of taking more than 300° as well. Just a question.
Why is port fuel injection better than direct injection for aviation use?
Good question.I was thinking the same.Why change back to port injection that disappeared from automotive use years ago.
Because the early opening of the intake valves in modern engines allows some combusted gases to enter into the intake manifold before the mixture is drawn into the cylinder. On engines run for extended periods at high power settings (i.e. run in aircraft) this will end up depositing carbon on and around the intake valve, eventually leading to a stuck intake valve. By changing from direct injection to port injection, the solvent properties of the atomized fuel clean these deposits off and prevent this buildup.
I want to put that 260hp motor on my 1962 Mooney M20c
Need a low profile and need this motor Certified to put Lycoming and Continental out of Business!!
Oh and Just FYI when George Bye
From Bye Aviation in Colorado gets His plane engines Certified then all other manufacturers will be out of Business cause Electric motors are the Future!!
the gauge is expensive, search Perfect Tuning Universal Gauge, same
We also supply 2 pressure sensors, a temperature sensor, plug and play wiring harness and custom software. I think if you add those up you will find we offer a great price!
11:27 AM-20-T
Does this engine have dual magnetos and plugs?
It can't. This is an automotive engine, they don't have dual plugs from the factory and this is impossible to add. Note the chance of failure or electronic ignition is much less than a magneto.
Are those engines :petrol/diesel or jet fuel powered?
Petrol
Why is it important to convert an automotive engine from direct injection to port injection?
I think in case you fly upside down
@@homertalk There wouldn't be any difference in the operation of those systems if inverted, I can't imagine why they'd do that. The oil system in these engines can't handle being inverted anyway.
Possibly to avoid carbon buildup on the valve covers for direct injected engines? When fuel is port injected, it cleans the valve cover as it is being sucked into the cylinder, thus avoiding massive buildup? Would love to hear the rationale from AeroMomentum though...
@@ruhou The carbon actually builds up on the back side of the head of the valve, but that's only when a PCV system is used and I would be surprised if these guys were running a PCV system on these engines. It certainly would be a good idea to run a PCV system, because it keeps the oil in good condition for a longer period of time, but it tends to be a lot of trouble to implement one on a turbocharged engine.
*... back side of the head of the valves
-
EGR probably plays a part in creating those carbon deposits, but there's really no reason to run an EGR system on an aircraft engine.
Aeromomentum WILL be my choice of engine! The guy that sells the Honda series of engines (using either used or new blocks) just strikes me as a REALLY shady Used Car Salesman, and I don't trust him as far as I can throw my house!
You apparently haven't met the guy.
@@flexairz
No, if you're referring to either of the fellows, but especially the Honda guy, no I haven't met him. But I have listened to at least three or four dozen hours of him speaking about his engines, to both presenters and giving solo presentations.
So I know what he has to say about his products, I know how he says it, and I know that I don't trust a word the man says most of the time. He is to me the ultimate used car salesman.
Could I be wrong? Sure! He could be on the complete up-and-up, and support his products 100%!
But I've read and research the fella, and he himself has admitted to some very serious problems in the past with his company.
Overall, I do not trust the man, but that is my subjective personal opinion, your opinion may not agree with mine, and that's okay.
@@jrbailey3208 Thank you for your ill informed, and yet subjective opinion. Your subjective opinion, just what I'll be seeking next time I'm in the market to make a purchase.
@@lorenwarner8631
@Loren Warner,
I stated clearly that my statements are indeed subjective, relating to my personal 'take' on the Honda guy, as well as my 'take' on the owner of Aeromomentum: I've not met either fellow, and what I know about each is based upon dozens of hours of watching their presentations on You Tube videos, produced by SEVERAL different You Tubers, which provides me with a wider variety of input, so that I can come to a reasonable conclusion about both Viking and Aeromomentum owners.
Further, I stipulated that according to his own words, the Viking owner has had a history of bad business decision making, leaving a 'bad taste' in more than few people's mouths. He's honest enough to admit that, and I respect him for that degree of honesty.
However, in presentation after presentation, his numbers on a number of occasions have disagree with his own statements; he seems to me, to play 'fast and loose' with a wide variety of information pertaining to the products he is selling. These differences are made often enough, across a number of You Tube presentations, to present to me, a strong series of evidence to make me NOT trust his words and hence his company and product.
No, I'm not talking about mistakes in speaking from time to time about specs, I'm talking about product sourcing, division of product sourcing, weasel words in describing warranties, product support, reliability, etc. His presentations are NOT strongly supportive in me, as a customer, wanting to trust him with $15k to $20k of my money, Period.
Others have come to other conclusions, and that is their right; their money, their lives, their decisions.
Lastly, you didn't provide any specifics as to your accusation that I am 'ill informed'. Further, I didn't ask you, nor anyone else, to take my opinion into consideration before making a purchase of any kind: this is a Public Comment Section, and thus, I provided my personal, subjective, point of view, the proverbial 2 cents worth, in with everyone else's two cents worth.
What I find more than a little amusing, is that all those who seem to be Viking Honda fans, are heavy on the personal attacks, LITE on the FACTS and EMPIRICAL evidence, and tend to sling extremely subjective panderings hither and yon, in some attempt to dissuade people from considering Aeromomentum products.
Allow me to tell you in no uncertain terms, that you are not making any friends for Viking or its products, nor are you representing yourselves in a positive manner.
Aeromomentum proudcts are in real world Test Bed situations across the globe. The owner has illustrated the limitation of incidence of his products on the issue of hours in Air Environments, but has been upfront and straight forward about the Test Bed Environments of his products in Prop Associated applications: ie, Airboats, which have props attached and thus produce very similar stress elements on engine, prop, drive train, to what we find in aircraft.
He doesn't mince his words about the history of his products, he doesn't use weasel words to get around questions, and when questioned about the sourcing of his components, he responds in the same straight forward manner in every video which I have watched.
My opinion of him and his products are based on these criteria.
Bottom line, I wouldn't trust the Viking guy with a dollar of my money, nor my life to his products, and this is from someone who happens to have OWNED Honda products, used them over decades, and in fact TRUST Honda products.
Viking engines may well be a good solution to the engine needs of a wide range of builders, and I might consider a Honda engine for an aircraft myself, but NOT from the guy who owns the company right now!
Cheers.
@@jrbailey3208 This discussion was meant to be about Aeromomentum, not a platform to make personal attacks against another. Many of us use and like Viking aircraft engines and its owner, but still support others. When our 750 STOL was proudly displayed at the Great Alaskan Aviation Gathering, with its Viking 130 engine, we also listed Aeromomentum as one of the many good alternatives to be considered.
Suzuki tried selling cars with their engines. How many Suzuki cars do you see on the road today?🤔😆
I don't know how this is strictly relevant to the discussion, but Suzuki still sells a ton of vehicles every year. There was 3,327,174 Suzuki automobiles sold globally in FY18-19 (pre-pandemic). In the same year Honda sold 5,323,000 for comparison, so Suzuki is still producing/selling a lot of vehicles. There were just never that many sold in the US and eventually they stopped selling here altogether.
You need to reconsider your color scheme for your engines. Seriously, that blue / yellow paint makes it look like a toy. I'm sure this is robbing you sales.
Blue and yellow are my favorite colors. I'm going to buy one based purely upon the color scheme. I totally understand how most people are going to overlook the obvious best bang for the buck Rotax replacement based on the color though.
AeroGarage, what choo talkin ‘bout Willis! Dem colors is Sweet! I bet plenty of former Blue Angels like it just fine!
@@vagabondroller Hahaha! 😂
Should be a pink one for girls.
I don't know, it seems to work out OK for the Blue Angels. :)