More warm feeling plywood overhead sounds great…as long as you stay in the pacific northwest, but when you are cruising in the tropics a cool white overhead will be what you want. Less weight up high is another vote for glass foam. From an esthetics point of view, your gluelam curved beams in their natural color will contrast beautifully with a light overhead. Your technical “how it’s done” videos are outstanding. You are very talented. Thanks for sharing your skills.
We built the deck of a 76' sailboat (at the Hinckley Co. in 1993) by first laying down pre-painted V-grooved plywood (think it was from Bruynzeel) on top of the deck beams - mechanically fastened. Then layers of glass on top of the ply, then foam, more glass, then teak planking. The interior result was great - white paint with varnished mahogany beams. Saved a ton of interior finish work and looked great.
Love the wood idea. On my project I had a similar dilemma and I ended up using ultra thin wood planking. This was easy to bend to follow the roof line and varnished up nicely. No matter what you do I am sure it will look great. Remember, if you ask 10 sailors for advice you will end up with a dozen different opinions. LOL!
I realize this is a older video as I'm playing catchup to current projects on Duracell. However why not use the pvc sheets that will never need to be painted and it will really make the deck beams pop against the white pvc board.. and it's flexible and relatively cheap
The cameo of the cargo ship you saw on the delivery is a really cool capture. You probably know this, but it's actually a bulk carrier, designed to carry grain in holds, but temporarily chartered by Amazon to carry 53 ft containers to try to avoid the shipping supply chain issues. Not something you see every day!
Hi Matt. How about laying up in your shed a thin sheet of fibreglass on a polished surface say Masonite / Melamine, Then you can gelcoat ( this would be the head liner ) then fibreglass then peelply. Fit this sheet to the coach house roof then add the core and top layers of fibreglass. The polished sheets can be used over and over again or cut up for templates. A word of caution, you have a racing boat hull that will not like a lot of weight up top. Plenty of rake on the front of the coach house will help in heavy weather. KEEP LIVING THE DREAM.
John, you and I are on the same page. I would definitely lay up the inside skin in the garage, once cured put that down on the coach roof, then glue foam and fiberglass the top. I'm using epoxy so I can't gelcoat, but the melamine with peelply would make the fairing and painting job a lot easier.
@@TheDuracellProject Matt if you go with a bench layup as discussed previously you could pigment the epoxy resin in the initial laminate and this would be the finish on the head liner, CHEERS.
Go away for a week and...So many comment responses I can't keep up! :) If you haven't already decided AND IF, as I expect, the "sexy" curved laminated wooden beams are going to be exposed then I'd vote for a fiberglass, painted a light or white color for two simple reasons: 1) Aesthetically the beams will stand out in nice contrast to the roof. 2) If you go with a white or only slightly saturated color light roof, the deck house space will be much brighter and airy for ambient light; which I think is a really good thing. A Wood ply ceiling will be warmer and maybe "cozier" but it won't reflect the ambient light as well. Looking forward to tomorrow's release... U find the spreaders yet? That was a real bummer and the first thing I noticed in your vid. Carry on!
we have cedar tongue and groove 5/8" in our main cabin. It is hard to find in clear and took a lot of prep to paint. In our pilothouse we used cellular vinyl trim board to dress the overhead. It is super light, relatively inexpensive, provides sound dampening and probably a little insulation. Comes in white and we haven't painted it after 8 years of use. I am happy to send photos if you are interested.
Since you're laminating it in situ, I'd go for the plywood option, you'll have more options open to you further down the line and you can always epoxy paint over the wood if needs be. If it was moulded off site and installed then glass would be better. What about adding some stringers to run the length of the roof too? (they'd also give you some more strong anchor points for handles and solar panels or something. Love how you trust the cat on the beach... Ours would just sod off 😂😂😂
I think I am going to install temporary longitudinal stringers that help to form the roof, then take them out when it comes time to install. I like where your heads at.
We’ll, I think if you’re changing Duracell from a racer to a family cruiser, wood is certainly more warm and attractive than a plain fiberglass roof. That’s my opinion which you asked for.😂 BTW - my sailing experience range is from a Sunfish to a Lightning (raced) to an O’Day day sailer. All on lakes. Now I’m 75 and no longer sail BUT, I do dream as I watch you and others live out your dreams. Thanks!
Glass would be my choice! I have replaced SO many bits of wood over the years on boats. We are currently rebuilding a 35' cat that was balsa cored. Never again! We are replacing basically the entire deck from the inside to get rid of all the wet core. We will likely add some wood trim inside the boat when we are done, but that will be the extent of it! Didn't know Mike Plant, but know a lot of folks that did in Newport, RI. where we lived and build boats for a few years. He was an interesting character.
I have too. In this part of the world rotten decks are the norm with all the rain we get. We are trying to build this boat to be as low maintenance as possible which would lend itself to fiberglass. We're also on a tight budget. Can we see more pics of your catamaran project?
Another great episode. This is a shout out to Janni's awesome mom. I have such fond memories of when you hosted Brooke and me. I am glad you got to make the trip with Janni and Matt!
Don't forget to install a few cable pipes to assist in any cable runs you have in the deckhead. Lighting, mast electrics etc. can all be hidden and maintained far more easily that way - and definitely wood. You can always overlap with a few mm of glass if needed down the road.
Love the way this channel is growing and I hope y'all get the mast soon and hopefully you find the missing spreaders or find ones that will be a direct replacement. 👍
I built a dodger over the cockpit back in the 80's with wood glassed over and it lasted for many years but i saw the boat a few years ago and was separating in a few places. I've seen boats from the 60's and the glass is still like new! My boat I have now I went with all glass. Course it being inside will be kept dry!
I am making my own lightweight pannels for building a ship with a core of honeybee cardboard! with a surface from glass fiber, aramide fibers or carbon fibers! In your case i would continue with the foamcore pannels! not any problems with de- lamination issues!
Fibreglas. On the inside i would screw in wooden boards with white vinyl between the structural frames and varnish those. I like the look of wooden varnished beams and white as the space feels bigger and varnished beams makes a nice contrast, i think 👍
I think your plywood inside the coach roof would be just fine as long as the exterior of the coachroof is glassed well👍👍 don't think there is a wrong way you can go, as long as it's strong and watertight
Resaw and plane some cedar down to 1/4" slats of an apppropriate width. Prefinish if you want. Build the fibreclass and foam core deck on top of the cedar planking.
Glass. Easy to maintain and repair as you have described and it's likely that all the hardware in the coachroof will eventually provide a path for water ingress. Extra cost and effort now may mitigate having to patch the coach roof later.
Enjoying the project - keep up the great work. 2 votes : 1. For the deck house I would go with 10 mm or 12 mm (3/8 or 1/2 in) tongue and groove boards laid fore and aft as the underneath layer. This thickness will give you a very fair first layer and you can then add the foam core on top. I would paint the underside of the T&G and varnish the deck beams. 2. I would support the comment to see if you can do swept spreaders.
@@TheDuracellProject yes- the thicker first layer would give a very fair line in a couple of ways. You may need to juggle the plank widths given the sides of the deck house taper in going forward. Some may say it is a bit old-school but I think it would look very nice indeed. The varnished mahogany beams would be a nice contrast to the white ...or slight tint of something if the white is going to look a bit stark.
The other thing that would make this area 'pop' would be some varnished mahogany knees under the deck beams onto the sides of the deck house.. I'm not sure what sort of structural stuff you have in mind with the traveller being on the deck house, but some knees would help with the forces at play here.
I'm definitely going to do this, to transfer load from the roof to the sides and into the hull, maybe hide some wires, and add more accent. Good thinking.
Varnished wood.. you’ll admire it for many years..! I might consider tongue and groove.. but that might not be dimensionally correct for your build.. best of luck!! 👍😎👍
Could you temporarily attach the foam core, then the fiberglass layup on the out side. Then flip it over and vacuum bag fiberglass the inside. Then finish it with gel coat. Just a thought, your the one doing all the hard work and justifying the cost. Having build a small 24 ft sailboat in wood with west system epoxy I appreciate a little of what your going through. Just do what’s best for you. We all look forward to Wednesday’s
This is also a really good idea to lay the foam temporarily and skin the top side, then laminate, fair and paint the inside. Very interesting. I had not considered this. I am using epoxy so I can't gelcoat, but it would make the fairing and painting 100x easier.....nice.
I'd consider a 6mm Alaskan yellow cedar strip plank ceiling instead of ply. The AYC is very attractive (blonde) when varnished, and you usually want the ceiling to be a lighter color. There's no need to chamfer the edges, as you fill the edge-grooves with epoxy when you layer on the foam core from above. I've been enjoying your vids. Best of luck.
It seems to me that one of the reasons you decided on this boat is it's likely durability. It also seems to me that boat owners will never be satisfied with the layout of a boat for the duration of it's life. Interiors are constantly updated , renovated etc. what stays the same is the Hull , Deck , and other integral pieces. What you are asking about is more in the occasional refit category I think , and since you prefer the look of wood, the price of wood, the ease of use of wood, I would suggest the answer provides itself . Durability for the interior of the doghouse should be secondary here in my opinion.
Plywood can work well as long as it is soaked/sealed with epoxy and kept dry. Use a rot-resistant wood species and marine-grade plywood and life will be good. You might also strip-build (foam or wood) for a nice, fair curve. Most of the strength will come from the 'glass skins. I hope the missing spreaders turn up... or that you work with a good rigger to plan/replace them. Will you be running inline or swept-back spreaders? This may be the nudge you need to custom-build exactly what you want or need.
I am planning on 'strip foam planking' whichever way I decide to do it. You are right that as long as the plywood is well sealed, it could last forever. I hope they turn up too. The spreaders were in line. Now I'm starting to consider swept spreaders......
Awesome project! Would be really awesome with a resessed traveler so it doesn't poke so much up on the sides of the doghouse! Whats the story about the Norwegian flag in the garage?
Hi Guys, We love the channel and the project! I kinda start fiending for the new episode Wednesday morning and look forward to seeing it after work. We are in Bellingham WA where we have our 2008 Hunter 49'. As for the question you presented, could you do both? Fiberglass with a sheeting of plywood inside. The plywood for beauty and warm finished look but also for being in Puget Sound where we all know too well the amount of moisture involved, as a way to be able to replace moisture or water damaged wood with out ripping the overhead apart to fix it. I understand the cost and time impact it would have but in my opinion the main overhead is a place not to skimp on this project. So basically a full fiberglass overhead the way you would do it with an added finished wood skin on the interior...That's my 2 cents, hell I don't even know if that would be practical but I love the project so much that I wanted to add an idea. I also wanted to offer up our services as a Vinyl Decal business to you guys for free when you start getting close to the completion and need any decals for the boat. Cheers and keep up the grind!
Hey thanks for the comment and the offer for Decals, that is super cool! Would you mind sending us an email at theduracellproject@gmail.com so we have your contact info? We could do both, it is something that others have brought up as well, low maintenance and replaceable. Good tip thank you.
Nice update, hope all will work out with the mast. As far as the doghouse is concerned I am leaning towards your idea of using nice 6mm marine grade plywood. Your conversion from a racing boat to a cruising boat should be kept in mind. Wood finish creates warmth and a homy feel, providing it will still give you building integrity.. Let there be no mistake, a boat is always in need for maintenance...
Frans, One goal of this project is to build a boat that is as low maintenance as possible... and I'm already considering putting in a varnished wood overhead! But I just love the idea of that warm varnished wood look. I think it will be Janni that I have to convince.
When the plywood eventually de-laminates, you'll have to replace the whole roof. Also the fibreglass may add more rigidity to the boat than the ply would ! Yes, I know ... the dad-joke was deliberate ... sorry, not sorry! :D
I'd use a nice marine grade ply, and it would pretty much all be on the interior, so I'm not too worried about delam. And with 6mm ply, it would be just as structural as a couple layers of glass. BUT, its heavier!
My preference would be fibreglass, partcularly given the risk of water penetration over time. The method I would use would be to support the foam over longitudinal battens, fibreglass the top of the foam, fit a temporary mould on the outside of the roof. Turn it upside down, and fibreglass the concave side, then flip back over, remove the mould and you have a great product. Of course I'm watching this video at Easter so you may have done it all by now!
What you also can do maybe is put a plastic plate on top of the cabintop as a mold and build your top from fiberglas with foam core and later remove the plastic and IT should be verry flat and nice
stumbled across your story/project this evening, binge watched every episode I'm all caught up now...carry on it's good content. liked, subscribed, and shared as well.
Many years building panels for woodworking applications has taught me not to expect unbalanced panels to stay flat. Glass of same thickness both sides is my vote.
This is an excellent point, I worry that wood would be hard to make perfectly flat which would make fairing more difficult, AND would be harder to avoid voids when laminating foam to it. Thanks for bringing this up
I like fiberglass with gelcoat on the inner side I use smooth formica sheets to do my layup makes very smooth finish and releases with virtually no mould release.
Id also be wanting a wood ceiling, though i would be laying 2.5in wide tounge and groove as the base with a layer of fibreglass then the foamcore then the top layer of glass over the foamcore... this way you have a beautiful roof inside the cabin, for my build i am not using foam core, im using the 2.5in wide tounge and groove for that beautifull ceiling, then im laying 12mm ply ontop of the tounge and groove with thickened epoxy and fibreglassing over that.. this leaves me with the option of having either a painted deck, or laying another layer of deck planks on top if i choose too later on..
@@TheDuracellProject my build is similar to, -sailing wave rover-s, new build.. my cabin roof and deck is layed like -salt and tar-s, build except with epoxy and glass instead of tar and bedding compound.. there builds are here on youtube under there vessel names i mentioned, sailing tapatya is a channel ive copied most of my building teqniques from.
I checked out the boat and it looks super fun. I built a stitch and glue plywood boat a few years back and loved the process, and the boat is solid. Good luck with the build!
I would definitely do plywood. I would a;so consider thicker than 1/4". Too much flex underway or even walking on it could damage any coating you put on. Also a p Probably .3/8". Also taking the cat to the beach is insane!!
She drives us insane if we don't take her to the beach. The ply would just be the inside skin of a foam cored part, so there will be 1'' foam on top of the wood and then glass on that, will be pretty stiff.
I hope you will find the spreaders and if not you have the chance to make the rigg with back swept spreaders instead of in line. And in that case I would personally rig the mast with the b&r rigging setup so you don’t need either a fixed backstay or runners.
@@TheDuracellProject The b&r is short for Bergstrom and Ridder and they were two engineers from Sweden that invented a lot of things back in the day. They are the inventors behind the Windex. Their rigg setup uses double diagonal stays on each side (both standard and reverse diagonals) and this gives the mast so much more support and strength than a normal mast setup. This is why you don't need any form of backstays as long as the spreader angle is between 25-30 deg and if you want even more support you can use two struts on the deck supporting the lower parts of the mast (see the b&r 23, 38, and THURSDAY' CHILD to understand what I mean). It's hard to explain by words so just google b&r rig and you will find more info about it and pictures. They had a patent (granted in 1975) on the setup so it was only used on their own boats (b&r 23, b&r 38) hunter boats (b&r design worked with hunter marine), and some old open 50 and open 60 (SOUTH CAROLINA, Hunter's Child and THURSDAY' CHILD). SOUTH CAROLINA, Hunter's Child doesn't use two struts as the other boats, it instead uses a tripod that distributes the loads and makes that you can have one meter shorter mast. I hope it's understandable.
I think if you varnish the inside of the deck head as well as the beams it will be too dark, what is nice is the tongue and grove look, painted white and the beams varnished. Not sure in the US but here you can buy PVC T&G look sheets.You don’t want the doghouse to end up like the black hole of Calcutta, because entering into the dog house is going to give first impressions of the accommodation.
I do love the t&g look, I've seen it on a few very classy boats lately, it's a good idea. I'm not too worried about the boat being too dark/cave-like given the huge windows all around the doghouse, but I see your point. Thanks for chiming in.
I think you're fine with plywood as the inside layer, I mean a bunch of boats by Schooner Creek have gone the wood/foam/wood route and done multiple ocean passages (e.g. Rage, Ocean Planet, Magic Carpet, Aqui No Mas). But if it were my boat, I'd probably try to find a way to tape the plywood to the house sides with biax, just to distribute the twisting loads a little better than just a fillet of epoxy would do. I'm just thinking of her taking a big greenie and the twisting loads that would induce. Also don't forget you have some shock loads from the traveler/main. If it were my boat I would probably mill some V-grooves into the interior veneer to mimic a T&G look, and probably paint it white. Look at something like a Passport 40 interior for something that would give a nice look.
Yes good point on taping the inside. I've thought about this and I will definitely tape the roof to the inside and if I varnish the wood, I would paint white over the tapes, so the overhead would have a white border all around.
I'm enjoying your channel and I can understand a desire to refurbish a legend. I am curious, though, on a boat as long as yours wouldn't it be feasible to turn it into a ketch or even a schooner? That would allow for shorter masts and less stress on the rigging. Just a question, not a criticism. You have way more experience than me.
Love the look and feel of the wood not so much the clorox bottles of the new designs consepts..BUT... go with the fiberglass for the strength don't cut corners.
I think I would go with fiberglass - the wood would look good but require more maintenance. I have seen vinyl bead board used for ceiling panels in some retrofits. The wood would also be darker.
I was just introduced to you by Sailing Magic Carpet. My first and consuming question is what keel/rudder modifications you're going to make to have a safe, world-cruising boat.
You should consider adding a skeg. You have much more sailing experience than me, so are aware of the catastrophic vulnerability of an unprotected rudder.
Hi, I would think that wood is ok, but I would go (from the bottom) : 6mm marine ply, 450gr/m² bidiagonal glass, your foam and then your top layer, atleast two layers of 450gr/m² bidiagonal layed at 60 degree angle. I would prefer to do all the glas work with vacuum., for the glass layers infusion would even be nicer. I like to use the MPT vacuum hose system... Matthias soon back in Greece preparing my Farrier F9RX for the season...
Nice boat Mattias, I've done some sailing on a F-25C....really really fun boat to sail, almost too much fun. Someone else mentioned putting a layer of glass between the plywood and foam. What's the purpose of that extra layer of glass?
@@TheDuracellProject Hi, I see a threefold purpose of the glass: the plywood is basicly now safely epoxy saturated and roughened up for the gluing Layer of the foam. and even more important: you have stiffened up the plywood enough so that when you press on the foam there will be much less deformation of the roof, the plywood is already much stiffer. and finally : should there be any undetected voids in the plywood, the glass will bridge these week zones.. Matthias, F9RX is much more a ship then the F24... specially as my Feyia2 is really a one off cruiser.
Voids between the foam and wood, if I were to go this route, is my biggest worry. The part is so large and curved that it would be impossible to detect them. I like your point, thank you.
Another great episode! Will the structural strength of the top be the same if you go (ply)wood on the inside? I think I would go 4 or 6 mm plywood -> GRP -> foam core -> GRP. Remember, worst case scenario, this roof has to withstand the boat flipping. But frankly, I have no idea what I’m talking about😅
Yes I believe it would be at least as strong as glass, I guess depending on the thickness of the glass. I'm curious why you would put a layer of glass between the plywood and the foam?
I would add glass between the (thin) plywood and foam, to make the foam truly a core, surrounded by a uniform material (glass), and not just a layer in a multilayered structure. Also, why introduce wood as a structural part?
I see what you're saying, in that case I could make the wood more of a veneer which is purely aesthetic and the roof part itself would be all foam cored glass. Good tip thank you.
Why isn’t the doghouse mechanically tied to the hull? Fiberglass is not an adequate anchor for the doghouse to the hull. One decently big wave will knock that off the hull
The missing spreaders could be a blessing... knock the price down. Plus, shortening the mast will be a delicate chore; lopping too much off the bottom will lower the goose neck too much, but then again you might replace that goose neck anyway. I imagine the spreader brackets are fixed because its a carbon mast, so while they can't move up or down there will be choices to make on the new rig plan. The spreaders could end up shorter, possibly longer, one set might get deleted, etc. It sucks that you'll have to buy new spreaders, but it might have had to happen anyway. If you go with a new rig plan this a perfect chance to make big changes that could allow you to try something different like Dyneema Rigging.
Yeah my guess is I'll need to remove the goose neck fittings anyway, but if I cut it down it won't be too much. It is a bummer that spreaders are gone, the nice thing was that the spreader width almost exactly matched the shroud base on Duracell, so I would have to do no adjustments there. Now I'm reconsidering all kinds of stuff.
I would use the plywood,well epoxied, but would paint it a light color to keep the cabin bright. too much wood is difficult to maintain and darkens the interior significantly.
I like the wood approach however I wouldn’t go with plywood. I think it will be a very large expanse of boring homogenous sheet stock. I know budget is important but it is your living area, you are going to be looking at it everyday. I would probably go the glass fibre route but skin the inside with some kind of attractive wood strip, shiplap or something to break up the large expanse of plywood. I’m not a woodworker so don’t know what the wood options would be. More work I know but don’t think you would regret it.
We've got the wood deck beams across the overhead so it will be broken up quite a bit. I'm starting to think that it will be a little much to have both varnished overhead and deck beams.
If I were to be bold and be really crazy, I'd do a solid wood plank roof that matches/complement your deck planks. You'd have to do some sort of metal or fiberglass support structuce and tab into the side of the doghouse. You may be able to bypass that by doing some sort of nice plank and then a single layer of fiberglass or epoxy much like a cedar strip canoe. My dream plan is to build a 35ish fiberglass hull and do the deck and in a nice cedar or teak plank or something that is the interior ceiling finish and deck plank all in one shot.
I like wood, I also like "easier" and of course I like more money. With that all said It should be fiberglass. It's just what needs to be done! I have a feeling you think so too.?
Fiberglass would be more money, mostly in the cost of the epoxy unfortunately. I've been leaning towards wood this whole time, but I'm hearing some pretty compelling arguments for fiberglass.
I hadn't thought about taping at each beam, just around the perimeter inside and out, and just epoxying the beams to the roof. You think it necessary to tape the beams as well?
@@TheDuracellProject for a beam to be effective in bending, the shear forces need to transfer from the top to the bottom of the beam/skin structure. So the beams need a very strong bond to the inner skin of the roof panel and the bond needs to be strong in shear (in the direction of the roof skin sliding transversely on the upper surface of the beam). Traditionally, structural stiffeners are taped to the skin panels. A lot of boats these days are built with the structure bonded to the skin with methyl methacrylate adhesive. I think for epoxy to work, the gap between the beam and the skin needs to be tight and both surfaces well prepared for adhesion.
Given that there are so many big windows in the doghouse, I'm not too concerned about feeling like we're stepping into a cave, it would mostly just be pretty to look at.
that rig looks like its " an inline spreader set up" probably going to need to think about changing to a swept back rig - particularly if you are thinking of sailing short-handed.
@@TheDuracellProject its a great mast to start with - I guess the trick will be knowing what you are good with and when to call in the outside experts. lets hope you are able to work out the team that manufactured/ designed the rig.
Personally, while I'm a fan of wood finishes, I'm not sure I would choose it for a ceiling since is is darker and feels "heavier" than say a white finish. I'd be keeping the coach roof light in colour to maintain a feeling of height and space. But that's me... I don't have a handle on just how big your coach roof is, and hence how easy or otherwise it is to manage it in one piece, but assuming you could, epoxy edge join your foam to make one piece big enough to cover the coach roof. Glass and fair one side while it's flat on the bench with no deck beams in the way. Once sanded to a smooth finish, turn it faired side down and bend it over and epoxy it down onto the beams. By just glassing and fairing one side you can still bend it over the curve and you've already finished it (except for painting). After it's cured then you glass and fair the top side and trim the outside edges. I used this technique on my boat and it really worked out really well. I ended up with a near perfect finish inside and out. Of course that's a simplified description - you need to fg tape it etc but it's still a time saving method. Cheers
I'm actually leaning towards this method, but mold the foam over the beams and laminate the top, attach formers to keep its shape, then take it off and laminate the inside. What do you think?
@@TheDuracellProject sounds like that would work fine. But you might be making the job significantly more complex than it needs to be… If you can laminate one side of the foam you have, and still bend it over the beams, the job is half done. Laminated side down - the beams become the moulds, and taking it off again unnecessary - just laminate the outside in situ. Maybe your foam is too stiff, I don’t know. But it might be worth making a test piece up to check. I can tell you though there’s a huge difference in flexibility between foam laminated on one side, than two sides. Two sides it’s as stiff as a proverbial board. One side, it’s still quite bendable. Cheers
Just a wood ceiling, which would definitely be darker than painted white. Our last boat had a white interior, and it was very very bright, which we loved.
I wouldn't go with plywood... I would try to avoid any wood in the major construction. Veneers on the interior and wood furniture is ok as long as they remain serviceable (easy to replace later). I'd do a light glass skin vac bagged to the scrim surface of scored foam, that will easily bend to shape when you glue it to the cabin frames. You can sand and fair it while it's still flat in the shop, glue it on, then vac bag the top skin. Plan ahead on any compression areas where you'll bolt down deck hardware, laminate blocks of the 16 pound Coosa board into the foam before laying up the top skin. Plan out your overhead lighting before starting anything. I wouldn't paint the inside to finish, I'd make rectangle panels of white vinyl that stick up with heavy duty velco, that will hide the lighting wires and the backing nuts for any mounted hardware.
Luke what do you think about the later comment Andrew made about temporarily putting the foam over the dog house, and glassing the outside. Then remove it, and vac bagging the inside skin?
@@TheDuracellProject You'd have to make some temporary plywood ribs like you did with the cabin beams. They would have to support the curve of the finished skin while you van bag the inside skin but it could work. That way you'd sill have the chance to fair the inside surface off the boat before gluing it on.
I would build out of glass and attach tongue and groove board inside. There is infinite ways, ultimately your budget, timeline, skills and abilities, and available materials will decide. Deciding how is the hardest part of body ownership but it is the burden of being the master.
Im on team fiberglass because it will have to be painted white and therefor will be brighter when it's finished and I hate the way plywood looks because how unnatural the grain pattern is (Rotary cut, it something wood doesn't look like). You also could paint the plywood white too, so that nicer woods stand out and brighten the interior more, such as those beams you laminated last episode.
See a cat channel is much better :) As to your question re wood or fibreglass it boils down to 3 questions aesthetics structural strength and cost. If you create a composite of glass foam and more glass that will be very strong and long lasting, as to the aesthetics you can create ceiling panels. Obviously cost will be high but it should last the lifetime of the boat. The flip side is a couple of layers of glass over plywood. Cost much cheaper probably last many years however structurally not as strong forget screwing deck hardware in. In the end both solutions will work as long as you do not need that strength so the answer is $$$$.
I would use the plywood as the inside skin of a foam cored part, so it would be pretty stiff. But I take your point that it would be very low maintenance to use fiberglass. thanks
Hi Matt, are you going to have an overhang on the doghouse roof? I think you can give great water drainage with an incorporated water gathering trough and this may be a better way of keeping water away from the doghouse sides. Personally I’d go for a fibreglass sandwich. I’d be looking to reinforce the roof with stainless pipe or a good quality hardwood. It needs to be as strong as the hull ideally? There’s a great you tube video of dog house construction th-cam.com/video/T5m2cLXzC38/w-d-xo.html
Yes there will be an overhang all the way around to keep rain off the windows and aft to get out of the weather a little. I've thought about this some more and I may set up a water collection system off of it as well, what do you think?
@@TheDuracellProject yes, I’d definitely go for a water collection system. Not much work for a great pay off. Even if it’s just to store water to rinse salt off the windows 😜
My mistake. Still learning all the ins and outs of audio...and we may need to upgrade our audio equipment. We know that our sound is less than great right now! -Janneke
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More warm feeling plywood overhead sounds great…as long as you stay in the pacific northwest, but when you are cruising in the tropics a cool white overhead will be what you want. Less weight up high is another vote for glass foam. From an esthetics point of view, your gluelam curved beams in their natural color will contrast beautifully with a light overhead. Your technical “how it’s done” videos are outstanding. You are very talented. Thanks for sharing your skills.
We built the deck of a 76' sailboat (at the Hinckley Co. in 1993) by first laying down pre-painted V-grooved plywood (think it was from Bruynzeel) on top of the deck beams - mechanically fastened. Then layers of glass on top of the ply, then foam, more glass, then teak planking. The interior result was great - white paint with varnished mahogany beams. Saved a ton of interior finish work and looked great.
Way to go Steven. I was Tom Morris's sales guy in the 1980's and early 90's.
@@Deutschtown familiar name. I was Tom's (1st) Chief Engineer (after the Able Marine melding), then did Sales for 3 years.
Love the wood idea. On my project I had a similar dilemma and I ended up using ultra thin wood planking. This was easy to bend to follow the roof line and varnished up nicely. No matter what you do I am sure it will look great. Remember, if you ask 10 sailors for advice you will end up with a dozen different opinions. LOL!
You are so right. I ask myself a question and 3 different answers come out. No right answers when it comes to boat design.
Wood interior always nice
I'm a little late but I must say wood on the inside. Also nice to see some "proper" footwear on the rocky beach. 😉
I realize this is a older video as I'm playing catchup to current projects on Duracell. However why not use the pvc sheets that will never need to be painted and it will really make the deck beams pop against the white pvc board.. and it's flexible and relatively cheap
The cameo of the cargo ship you saw on the delivery is a really cool capture. You probably know this, but it's actually a bulk carrier, designed to carry grain in holds, but temporarily chartered by Amazon to carry 53 ft containers to try to avoid the shipping supply chain issues. Not something you see every day!
we didn't know that-cool!
I agree if you ever have water find its way to the plywood that wood be a huge job to replace
Wood. So much warmer look and feel.
Hi Matt. How about laying up in your shed a thin sheet of fibreglass on a polished surface say Masonite / Melamine, Then you can gelcoat ( this would be the head liner ) then fibreglass then peelply. Fit this sheet to the coach house roof then add the core and top layers of fibreglass. The polished sheets can be used over and over again or cut up for templates. A word of caution, you have a racing boat hull that will not like a lot of weight up top. Plenty of rake on the front of the coach house will help in heavy weather. KEEP LIVING THE DREAM.
John, you and I are on the same page. I would definitely lay up the inside skin in the garage, once cured put that down on the coach roof, then glue foam and fiberglass the top. I'm using epoxy so I can't gelcoat, but the melamine with peelply would make the fairing and painting job a lot easier.
@@TheDuracellProject Matt if you go with a bench layup as discussed previously you could pigment the epoxy resin in the initial laminate and this would be the finish on the head liner, CHEERS.
Go away for a week and...So many comment responses I can't keep up! :)
If you haven't already decided AND IF, as I expect, the "sexy" curved laminated wooden beams are going to be exposed then I'd vote for a fiberglass, painted a light or white color for two simple reasons: 1) Aesthetically the beams will stand out in nice contrast to the roof. 2) If you go with a white or only slightly saturated color light roof, the deck house space will be much brighter and airy for ambient light; which I think is a really good thing. A Wood ply ceiling will be warmer and maybe "cozier" but it won't reflect the ambient light as well.
Looking forward to tomorrow's release... U find the spreaders yet? That was a real bummer and the first thing I noticed in your vid. Carry on!
we have cedar tongue and groove 5/8" in our main cabin. It is hard to find in clear and took a lot of prep to paint. In our pilothouse we used cellular vinyl trim board to dress the overhead. It is super light, relatively inexpensive, provides sound dampening and probably a little insulation. Comes in white and we haven't painted it after 8 years of use. I am happy to send photos if you are interested.
I would like to see pictures, please send to theduracellproject@gmail.com. Thanks for the tip.
Great job Mary
Hi Eloise! Thanks for watching our episode! Enjoy your upcoming trip to the coast :)-Janneke
@@TheDuracellProject thanks!
Since you're laminating it in situ, I'd go for the plywood option, you'll have more options open to you further down the line and you can always epoxy paint over the wood if needs be.
If it was moulded off site and installed then glass would be better.
What about adding some stringers to run the length of the roof too? (they'd also give you some more strong anchor points for handles and solar panels or something.
Love how you trust the cat on the beach... Ours would just sod off 😂😂😂
I think I am going to install temporary longitudinal stringers that help to form the roof, then take them out when it comes time to install. I like where your heads at.
We’ll, I think if you’re changing Duracell from a racer to a family cruiser, wood is certainly more warm and attractive than a plain fiberglass roof.
That’s my opinion which you asked for.😂
BTW - my sailing experience range is from a Sunfish to a Lightning (raced) to an O’Day day sailer. All on lakes.
Now I’m 75 and no longer sail BUT, I do dream as I watch you and others live out your dreams.
Thanks!
Thanks for chiming in! I like the thought of a pretty varnished wood overhead, pretty cozy!
What a beautiful little cat !! Love your channel, best of luck with your project I am sure it will be a massive success xx
Glass would be my choice! I have replaced SO many bits of wood over the years on boats. We are currently rebuilding a 35' cat that was balsa cored. Never again! We are replacing basically the entire deck from the inside to get rid of all the wet core. We will likely add some wood trim inside the boat when we are done, but that will be the extent of it! Didn't know Mike Plant, but know a lot of folks that did in Newport, RI. where we lived and build boats for a few years. He was an interesting character.
I have too. In this part of the world rotten decks are the norm with all the rain we get. We are trying to build this boat to be as low maintenance as possible which would lend itself to fiberglass. We're also on a tight budget.
Can we see more pics of your catamaran project?
Another great episode. This is a shout out to Janni's awesome mom. I have such fond memories of when you hosted Brooke and me. I am glad you got to make the trip with Janni and Matt!
Thanks, Susan! :)-Janneke. That was a lovely weekend we had!
Don't forget to install a few cable pipes to assist in any cable runs you have in the deckhead. Lighting, mast electrics etc. can all be hidden and maintained far more easily that way - and definitely wood. You can always overlap with a few mm of glass if needed down the road.
Good thinking, I'll look into this.
Love the way this channel is growing and I hope y'all get the mast soon and hopefully you find the missing spreaders or find ones that will be a direct replacement. 👍
Thank you.
I built a dodger over the cockpit back in the 80's with wood glassed over and it lasted for many years but i saw the boat a few years ago and was separating in a few places. I've seen boats from the 60's and the glass is still like new! My boat I have now I went with all glass. Course it being inside will be kept dry!
I would also be using a lot of epoxy to seal the ply. If I'm careful there will be no water ingress.
I am making my own lightweight pannels for building a ship with a core of honeybee cardboard! with a surface from glass fiber, aramide fibers or carbon fibers! In your case i would continue with the foamcore pannels! not any problems with de- lamination issues!
Honeycomb is great stuff. Good luck with the panels.
Fibreglas. On the inside i would screw in wooden boards with white vinyl between the structural frames and varnish those. I like the look of wooden varnished beams and white as the space feels bigger and varnished beams makes a nice contrast, i think 👍
That's what Janneke likes too.
I think your plywood inside the coach roof would be just fine as long as the exterior of the coachroof is glassed well👍👍 don't think there is a wrong way you can go, as long as it's strong and watertight
You're right, it comes down to logistics mostly, not an easy part to construct whichever way you cut it.
Resaw and plane some cedar down to 1/4" slats of an apppropriate width. Prefinish if you want. Build the fibreclass and foam core deck on top of the cedar planking.
That would be pretty
Glass. Easy to maintain and repair as you have described and it's likely that all the hardware in the coachroof will eventually provide a path for water ingress. Extra cost and effort now may mitigate having to patch the coach roof later.
Yes, this is exactly why I would consider doing fiberglass, I'm very weary of rot.
Enjoying the project - keep up the great work.
2 votes :
1. For the deck house I would go with 10 mm or 12 mm (3/8 or 1/2 in) tongue and groove boards laid fore and aft as the underneath layer. This thickness will give you a very fair first layer and you can then add the foam core on top. I would paint the underside of the T&G and varnish the deck beams.
2. I would support the comment to see if you can do swept spreaders.
This is an idea I had definitely not considered. Basically like a strip planked t&g overhead is that what you're saying? It would be very pretty.
@@TheDuracellProject yes- the thicker first layer would give a very fair line in a couple of ways. You may need to juggle the plank widths given the sides of the deck house taper in going forward. Some may say it is a bit old-school but I think it would look very nice indeed. The varnished mahogany beams would be a nice contrast to the white ...or slight tint of something if the white is going to look a bit stark.
The other thing that would make this area 'pop' would be some varnished mahogany knees under the deck beams onto the sides of the deck house.. I'm not sure what sort of structural stuff you have in mind with the traveller being on the deck house, but some knees would help with the forces at play here.
I'm definitely going to do this, to transfer load from the roof to the sides and into the hull, maybe hide some wires, and add more accent. Good thinking.
Varnished wood.. you’ll admire it for many years..!
I might consider tongue and groove.. but that might not be dimensionally correct for your build.. best of luck!!
👍😎👍
I agree, the varnished look would be fun. Janni is pretty keen on a white overhead so I've got some convincing to do.
I'd go with the wood too . . . . maybe an African Mohogany veneer face (inside) over the plywood.
Could you temporarily attach the foam core, then the fiberglass layup on the out side. Then flip it over and vacuum bag fiberglass the inside. Then finish it with gel coat. Just a thought, your the one doing all the hard work and justifying the cost. Having build a small 24 ft sailboat in wood with west system epoxy I appreciate a little of what your going through. Just do what’s best for you. We all look forward to Wednesday’s
This is also a really good idea to lay the foam temporarily and skin the top side, then laminate, fair and paint the inside. Very interesting. I had not considered this. I am using epoxy so I can't gelcoat, but it would make the fairing and painting 100x easier.....nice.
I'd consider a 6mm Alaskan yellow cedar strip plank ceiling instead of ply. The AYC is very attractive (blonde) when varnished, and you usually want the ceiling to be a lighter color. There's no need to chamfer the edges, as you fill the edge-grooves with epoxy when you layer on the foam core from above. I've been enjoying your vids. Best of luck.
That would be very pretty, I've used cedar in other builds and it's fun to work with. Thanks for the tip!
The wood sounds nice 👍🏻
Thin layer of marine ply seems on the beam then glass it then foam then glass last as long as you'll ever own the boat
2 votes for wood
I love the idea of woo
another vote for wood, we'll have to tally this up.
the Wood surely would look nicer..
It seems to me that one of the reasons you decided on this boat is it's likely durability. It also seems to me that boat owners will never be satisfied with the layout of a boat for the duration of it's life. Interiors are constantly updated , renovated etc.
what stays the same is the Hull , Deck , and other integral pieces. What you are asking about is more in the occasional refit category I think , and since you prefer the look of wood, the price of wood, the ease of use of wood, I would suggest the answer provides itself . Durability for the interior of the doghouse should be secondary here in my opinion.
Plywood can work well as long as it is soaked/sealed with epoxy and kept dry. Use a rot-resistant wood species and marine-grade plywood and life will be good. You might also strip-build (foam or wood) for a nice, fair curve. Most of the strength will come from the 'glass skins.
I hope the missing spreaders turn up... or that you work with a good rigger to plan/replace them. Will you be running inline or swept-back spreaders? This may be the nudge you need to custom-build exactly what you want or need.
I am planning on 'strip foam planking' whichever way I decide to do it. You are right that as long as the plywood is well sealed, it could last forever.
I hope they turn up too. The spreaders were in line. Now I'm starting to consider swept spreaders......
Awesome project! Would be really awesome with a resessed traveler so it doesn't poke so much up on the sides of the doghouse! Whats the story about the Norwegian flag in the garage?
Janneke's Dad is from Norway!
Hi Guys, We love the channel and the project! I kinda start fiending for the new episode Wednesday morning and look forward to seeing it after work. We are in Bellingham WA where we have our 2008 Hunter 49'. As for the question you presented, could you do both? Fiberglass with a sheeting of plywood inside. The plywood for beauty and warm finished look but also for being in Puget Sound where we all know too well the amount of moisture involved, as a way to be able to replace moisture or water damaged wood with out ripping the overhead apart to fix it. I understand the cost and time impact it would have but in my opinion the main overhead is a place not to skimp on this project. So basically a full fiberglass overhead the way you would do it with an added finished wood skin on the interior...That's my 2 cents, hell I don't even know if that would be practical but I love the project so much that I wanted to add an idea. I also wanted to offer up our services as a Vinyl Decal business to you guys for free when you start getting close to the completion and need any decals for the boat. Cheers and keep up the grind!
Hey thanks for the comment and the offer for Decals, that is super cool! Would you mind sending us an email at theduracellproject@gmail.com so we have your contact info?
We could do both, it is something that others have brought up as well, low maintenance and replaceable. Good tip thank you.
Nice update, hope all will work out with the mast.
As far as the doghouse is concerned I am leaning towards your idea of using nice 6mm marine grade plywood. Your conversion from a racing boat to a cruising boat should be kept in mind.
Wood finish creates warmth and a homy feel, providing it will still give you building integrity..
Let there be no mistake, a boat is always in need for maintenance...
Frans, One goal of this project is to build a boat that is as low maintenance as possible... and I'm already considering putting in a varnished wood overhead! But I just love the idea of that warm varnished wood look. I think it will be Janni that I have to convince.
Sure, the plywood inner skin is fine structurally. The Appendix of the Gougeon book (now free online) has some details on mixed panels like that.
Thanks Evan, I think I have a copy around here somewhere, I'll check that out.
When the plywood eventually de-laminates, you'll have to replace the whole roof.
Also the fibreglass may add more rigidity to the boat than the ply would !
Yes, I know ... the dad-joke was deliberate ... sorry, not sorry! :D
I'd use a nice marine grade ply, and it would pretty much all be on the interior, so I'm not too worried about delam. And with 6mm ply, it would be just as structural as a couple layers of glass. BUT, its heavier!
My preference would be fibreglass, partcularly given the risk of water penetration over time. The method I would use would be to support the foam over longitudinal battens, fibreglass the top of the foam, fit a temporary mould on the outside of the roof. Turn it upside down, and fibreglass the concave side, then flip back over, remove the mould and you have a great product. Of course I'm watching this video at Easter so you may have done it all by now!
What you also can do maybe is put a plastic plate on top of the cabintop as a mold and build your top from fiberglas with foam core and later remove the plastic and IT should be verry flat and nice
Very true, like making a mold more or less. It's a huge part so it would require a lot of plastic. I'll think more about this.
@@TheDuracellProject exectly IT is only a big waist of material but maybe you can reuse IT for other projects or you can maybe resell it
Thanks for the video. I'm soaking it all in. Fascinating!
Enjoy!
stumbled across your story/project this evening, binge watched every episode I'm all caught up now...carry on it's good content.
liked, subscribed, and shared as well.
Welcome aboard, Steven, and thank you!!
Many years building panels for woodworking applications has taught me not to expect unbalanced panels to stay flat. Glass of same thickness both sides is my vote.
This is an excellent point, I worry that wood would be hard to make perfectly flat which would make fairing more difficult, AND would be harder to avoid voids when laminating foam to it. Thanks for bringing this up
I like fiberglass with gelcoat on the inner side I use smooth formica sheets to do my layup makes very smooth finish and releases with virtually no mould release.
Nice, I'm using epoxy so I can't gel coat, but I probably will use formica or melamine to do the first layer of glass. Thanks for commenting.
Id also be wanting a wood ceiling, though i would be laying 2.5in wide tounge and groove as the base with a layer of fibreglass then the foamcore then the top layer of glass over the foamcore... this way you have a beautiful roof inside the cabin, for my build i am not using foam core, im using the 2.5in wide tounge and groove for that beautifull ceiling, then im laying 12mm ply ontop of the tounge and groove with thickened epoxy and fibreglassing over that.. this leaves me with the option of having either a painted deck, or laying another layer of deck planks on top if i choose too later on..
Nice, what are you building?? The t&g seems to be a popular opinion.
@@TheDuracellProject my build is similar to, -sailing wave rover-s, new build.. my cabin roof and deck is layed like -salt and tar-s, build except with epoxy and glass instead of tar and bedding compound.. there builds are here on youtube under there vessel names i mentioned, sailing tapatya is a channel ive copied most of my building teqniques from.
I checked out the boat and it looks super fun. I built a stitch and glue plywood boat a few years back and loved the process, and the boat is solid. Good luck with the build!
I would definitely do plywood. I would a;so consider thicker than 1/4". Too much flex underway or even walking on it could damage any coating you put on. Also a p Probably .3/8". Also taking the cat to the beach is insane!!
She drives us insane if we don't take her to the beach.
The ply would just be the inside skin of a foam cored part, so there will be 1'' foam on top of the wood and then glass on that, will be pretty stiff.
Nothing constructive, but keep up the good work. This is a fantastic story/project. I think you’ll do very well on this channel
Thanks so much Chris, we're glad that you're enjoying it.
I hope you will find the spreaders and if not you have the chance to make the rigg with back swept spreaders instead of in line. And in that case I would personally rig the mast with the b&r rigging setup so you don’t need either a fixed backstay or runners.
What is B&R rigging? I'm definitely considering swept now.
@@TheDuracellProject The b&r is short for Bergstrom and Ridder and they were two engineers from Sweden that invented a lot of things back in the day. They are the inventors behind the Windex. Their rigg setup uses double diagonal stays on each side (both standard and reverse diagonals) and this gives the mast so much more support and strength than a normal mast setup. This is why you don't need any form of backstays as long as the spreader angle is between 25-30 deg and if you want even more support you can use two struts on the deck supporting the lower parts of the mast (see the b&r 23, 38, and THURSDAY' CHILD to understand what I mean). It's hard to explain by words so just google b&r rig and you will find more info about it and pictures.
They had a patent (granted in 1975) on the setup so it was only used on their own boats (b&r 23, b&r 38) hunter boats (b&r design worked with hunter marine), and some old open 50 and open 60 (SOUTH CAROLINA, Hunter's Child and THURSDAY' CHILD). SOUTH CAROLINA, Hunter's Child doesn't use two struts as the other boats, it instead uses a tripod that distributes the loads and makes that you can have one meter shorter mast. I hope it's understandable.
I think if you varnish the inside of the deck head as well as the beams it will be too dark, what is nice is the tongue and grove look, painted white and the beams varnished. Not sure in the US but here you can buy PVC T&G look sheets.You don’t want the doghouse to end up like the black hole of Calcutta, because entering into the dog house is going to give first impressions of the accommodation.
I do love the t&g look, I've seen it on a few very classy boats lately, it's a good idea. I'm not too worried about the boat being too dark/cave-like given the huge windows all around the doghouse, but I see your point. Thanks for chiming in.
Whether you do the one or the other; perhaps include conduits or some arrangements for celing lights in the cockpit?
Yes, great tip, I'm going to try to make it happen.
I think you're fine with plywood as the inside layer, I mean a bunch of boats by Schooner Creek have gone the wood/foam/wood route and done multiple ocean passages (e.g. Rage, Ocean Planet, Magic Carpet, Aqui No Mas). But if it were my boat, I'd probably try to find a way to tape the plywood to the house sides with biax, just to distribute the twisting loads a little better than just a fillet of epoxy would do. I'm just thinking of her taking a big greenie and the twisting loads that would induce. Also don't forget you have some shock loads from the traveler/main.
If it were my boat I would probably mill some V-grooves into the interior veneer to mimic a T&G look, and probably paint it white. Look at something like a Passport 40 interior for something that would give a nice look.
Yes good point on taping the inside. I've thought about this and I will definitely tape the roof to the inside and if I varnish the wood, I would paint white over the tapes, so the overhead would have a white border all around.
I'm enjoying your channel and I can understand a desire to refurbish a legend. I am curious, though, on a boat as long as yours wouldn't it be feasible to turn it into a ketch or even a schooner? That would allow for shorter masts and less stress on the rigging. Just a question, not a criticism. You have way more experience than me.
You're totally right, but I prefer a sloop to a ketch (just personal preference) and I prefer to keep the boat closer to its original sailing trim.
I don't have anything to contribute to your question, but I look forward to seeing what you decide to do!
I say fiberglass & painted roof. Timber = more maintenance down the road
Love the look and feel of the wood not so much the clorox bottles of the new designs consepts..BUT... go with the fiberglass for the strength don't cut corners.
Weight savings to me would be the biggest advantage of glass. We have the wood deck beams, so maybe that is enough wood trim to make it cozy.
I think I would go with fiberglass - the wood would look good but require more maintenance. I have seen vinyl bead board used for ceiling panels in some retrofits. The wood would also be darker.
Thanks for the vote Grady, team fiberglass won out in the end.
I was just introduced to you by Sailing Magic Carpet. My first and consuming question is what keel/rudder modifications you're going to make to have a safe, world-cruising boat.
In a nutshell, we'll be making the keel more shallow. No plans to change the rudder set up right now, though I have been thinking about it....
You should consider adding a skeg. You have much more sailing experience than me, so are aware of the catastrophic vulnerability of an unprotected rudder.
Max, as long as your Mon in law supports the project; you’re good to go😀
@Yann Mengin, she is very supportive :)
Thats a Weird Cat..🐈🐱
Hi, I would think that wood is ok, but I would go (from the bottom) : 6mm marine ply, 450gr/m² bidiagonal glass, your foam and then your top layer, atleast two layers of 450gr/m² bidiagonal layed at 60 degree angle. I would prefer to do all the glas work with vacuum., for the glass layers infusion would even be nicer. I like to use the MPT vacuum hose system... Matthias soon back in Greece preparing my Farrier F9RX for the season...
Nice boat Mattias, I've done some sailing on a F-25C....really really fun boat to sail, almost too much fun.
Someone else mentioned putting a layer of glass between the plywood and foam. What's the purpose of that extra layer of glass?
@@TheDuracellProject Hi, I see a threefold purpose of the glass: the plywood is basicly now safely epoxy saturated and roughened up for the gluing Layer of the foam. and even more important: you have stiffened up the plywood enough so that when you press on the foam there will be much less deformation of the roof, the plywood is already much stiffer. and finally : should there be any undetected voids in the plywood, the glass will bridge these week zones..
Matthias, F9RX is much more a ship then the F24... specially as my Feyia2 is really a one off cruiser.
Voids between the foam and wood, if I were to go this route, is my biggest worry. The part is so large and curved that it would be impossible to detect them. I like your point, thank you.
Another great episode!
Will the structural strength of the top be the same if you go (ply)wood on the inside?
I think I would go 4 or 6 mm plywood -> GRP -> foam core -> GRP.
Remember, worst case scenario, this roof has to withstand the boat flipping.
But frankly, I have no idea what I’m talking about😅
Yes I believe it would be at least as strong as glass, I guess depending on the thickness of the glass. I'm curious why you would put a layer of glass between the plywood and the foam?
I would add glass between the (thin) plywood and foam, to make the foam truly a core, surrounded by a uniform material (glass), and not just a layer in a multilayered structure. Also, why introduce wood as a structural part?
I see what you're saying, in that case I could make the wood more of a veneer which is purely aesthetic and the roof part itself would be all foam cored glass. Good tip thank you.
For the al-go-rythm :)
Plywood all the way super strong.Seal it really good it will out last you and the next guy.
Why isn’t the doghouse mechanically tied to the hull? Fiberglass is not an adequate anchor for the doghouse to the hull. One decently big wave will knock that off the hull
The missing spreaders could be a blessing... knock the price down. Plus, shortening the mast will be a delicate chore; lopping too much off the bottom will lower the goose neck too much, but then again you might replace that goose neck anyway. I imagine the spreader brackets are fixed because its a carbon mast, so while they can't move up or down there will be choices to make on the new rig plan. The spreaders could end up shorter, possibly longer, one set might get deleted, etc. It sucks that you'll have to buy new spreaders, but it might have had to happen anyway. If you go with a new rig plan this a perfect chance to make big changes that could allow you to try something different like Dyneema Rigging.
Yeah my guess is I'll need to remove the goose neck fittings anyway, but if I cut it down it won't be too much. It is a bummer that spreaders are gone, the nice thing was that the spreader width almost exactly matched the shroud base on Duracell, so I would have to do no adjustments there. Now I'm reconsidering all kinds of stuff.
I would use the plywood,well epoxied, but would paint it a light color to keep the cabin bright. too much wood is difficult to maintain and darkens the interior significantly.
This is what I'm leaning towards now. Janneke is very partial towards the white overhead, I'm partial towards an easier/cheaper build.
I like the wood approach however I wouldn’t go with plywood. I think it will be a very large expanse of boring homogenous sheet stock. I know budget is important but it is your living area, you are going to be looking at it everyday. I would probably go the glass fibre route but skin the inside with some kind of attractive wood strip, shiplap or something to break up the large expanse of plywood.
I’m not a woodworker so don’t know what the wood options would be. More work I know but don’t think you would regret it.
We've got the wood deck beams across the overhead so it will be broken up quite a bit. I'm starting to think that it will be a little much to have both varnished overhead and deck beams.
Id 100% do wood. I'm a carpenter so I'm a bit partial lol. I think the end product will be nicer, and a little wood on a cruiser goes along way IMO.
Agreed, it could add a nice, unique touch to the interior.
If I were to be bold and be really crazy, I'd do a solid wood plank roof that matches/complement your deck planks. You'd have to do some sort of metal or fiberglass support structuce and tab into the side of the doghouse. You may be able to bypass that by doing some sort of nice plank and then a single layer of fiberglass or epoxy much like a cedar strip canoe. My dream plan is to build a 35ish fiberglass hull and do the deck and in a nice cedar or teak plank or something that is the interior ceiling finish and deck plank all in one shot.
That would be pretty, I hope you get the opportunity to pursue that dream.
Fiberglass. Feels more racey to fit in with the heritage of the boat. Also like lighter weight and low maintenance.
I like wood, I also like "easier" and of course I like more money. With that all said It should be fiberglass. It's just what needs to be done! I have a feeling you think so too.?
Fiberglass would be more money, mostly in the cost of the epoxy unfortunately. I've been leaning towards wood this whole time, but I'm hearing some pretty compelling arguments for fiberglass.
4mm okoume ply for pilot house overhead,
doghouseroof wood for easy of build you could mark it to look like wood lining the just paint it all white varnish is a pain that never goes away
true.
I vote for wood
I would do the wood it will make a smoother surface with no sag.
If you are taping the transverse beams to the doghouse roof, the pretty wood inside skin will be partially obscured at each beam.
I hadn't thought about taping at each beam, just around the perimeter inside and out, and just epoxying the beams to the roof. You think it necessary to tape the beams as well?
@@TheDuracellProject for a beam to be effective in bending, the shear forces need to transfer from the top to the bottom of the beam/skin structure. So the beams need a very strong bond to the inner skin of the roof panel and the bond needs to be strong in shear (in the direction of the roof skin sliding transversely on the upper surface of the beam). Traditionally, structural stiffeners are taped to the skin panels. A lot of boats these days are built with the structure bonded to the skin with methyl methacrylate adhesive. I think for epoxy to work, the gap between the beam and the skin needs to be tight and both surfaces well prepared for adhesion.
Wood v. Glass, would leaving the wood color down below on the underside of the cabin top make it kind of dark?
Given that there are so many big windows in the doghouse, I'm not too concerned about feeling like we're stepping into a cave, it would mostly just be pretty to look at.
I can't believe that cat didn't run into the woods
Fiberglass. Way easier upkeep in the long run, and you could still finish the inside with a veneer.
Good point. Thanks
@@TheDuracellProject No prob!
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that rig looks like its " an inline spreader set up" probably going to need to think about changing to a swept back rig - particularly if you are thinking of sailing short-handed.
It is in-line, and now that I have to bring my own spreaders to the party I'm definitely thinking about changing it to swept.
@@TheDuracellProject its a great mast to start with - I guess the trick will be knowing what you are good with and when to call in the outside experts. lets hope you are able to work out the team that manufactured/ designed the rig.
Yeah if you can get rid of the runners by going swept, huge advantage!
Personally, while I'm a fan of wood finishes, I'm not sure I would choose it for a ceiling since is is darker and feels "heavier" than say a white finish. I'd be keeping the coach roof light in colour to maintain a feeling of height and space. But that's me... I don't have a handle on just how big your coach roof is, and hence how easy or otherwise it is to manage it in one piece, but assuming you could, epoxy edge join your foam to make one piece big enough to cover the coach roof. Glass and fair one side while it's flat on the bench with no deck beams in the way. Once sanded to a smooth finish, turn it faired side down and bend it over and epoxy it down onto the beams. By just glassing and fairing one side you can still bend it over the curve and you've already finished it (except for painting). After it's cured then you glass and fair the top side and trim the outside edges. I used this technique on my boat and it really worked out really well. I ended up with a near perfect finish inside and out. Of course that's a simplified description - you need to fg tape it etc but it's still a time saving method. Cheers
I'm actually leaning towards this method, but mold the foam over the beams and laminate the top, attach formers to keep its shape, then take it off and laminate the inside. What do you think?
@@TheDuracellProject sounds like that would work fine. But you might be making the job significantly more complex than it needs to be… If you can laminate one side of the foam you have, and still bend it over the beams, the job is half done. Laminated side down - the beams become the moulds, and taking it off again unnecessary - just laminate the outside in situ. Maybe your foam is too stiff, I don’t know. But it might be worth making a test piece up to check. I can tell you though there’s a huge difference in flexibility between foam laminated on one side, than two sides. Two sides it’s as stiff as a proverbial board. One side, it’s still quite bendable. Cheers
Wood or polyester.. keep it light instead of darken... you consider
a dark ceiling!?
Just a wood ceiling, which would definitely be darker than painted white. Our last boat had a white interior, and it was very very bright, which we loved.
Wood!
If I do wood you'd better come see it when it's done and if it sucks I'm blaming you.
So, did you buy the mast? and did you find the spreaders?
Not yet and not yet!
Ply Wood please!
Noted.
So what's happened with the mast spreaders? Sorry if you already answer in previous comments .
They were stolen. I'll update in the next episode. Good question.
I wouldn't go with plywood... I would try to avoid any wood in the major construction. Veneers on the interior and wood furniture is ok as long as they remain serviceable (easy to replace later). I'd do a light glass skin vac bagged to the scrim surface of scored foam, that will easily bend to shape when you glue it to the cabin frames. You can sand and fair it while it's still flat in the shop, glue it on, then vac bag the top skin. Plan ahead on any compression areas where you'll bolt down deck hardware, laminate blocks of the 16 pound Coosa board into the foam before laying up the top skin. Plan out your overhead lighting before starting anything. I wouldn't paint the inside to finish, I'd make rectangle panels of white vinyl that stick up with heavy duty velco, that will hide the lighting wires and the backing nuts for any mounted hardware.
Luke what do you think about the later comment Andrew made about temporarily putting the foam over the dog house, and glassing the outside. Then remove it, and vac bagging the inside skin?
@@TheDuracellProject You'd have to make some temporary plywood ribs like you did with the cabin beams. They would have to support the curve of the finished skin while you van bag the inside skin but it could work. That way you'd sill have the chance to fair the inside surface off the boat before gluing it on.
Can you duplicate the missing spreaders? Thx....
Yes, I could, but it would be money and time intensive. I'm holding out for another mast now.
@@TheDuracellProject Sounds like a plan.
I would build out of glass and attach tongue and groove board inside.
There is infinite ways, ultimately your budget, timeline, skills and abilities, and available materials will decide. Deciding how is the hardest part of body ownership but it is the burden of being the master.
Dude that's deep.
I'll tally another vote for t&g.
The voiceover is only playing from the left side when using headphones, might want to look into it for the next episode
Yeah, I didn't catch that before publishing. Next week, I'll be sure to catch it!-Janneke
@@TheDuracellProject yeah that's understandable, the video was still great, can't wait for the next one!
Im on team fiberglass because it will have to be painted white and therefor will be brighter when it's finished and I hate the way plywood looks because how unnatural the grain pattern is (Rotary cut, it something wood doesn't look like). You also could paint the plywood white too, so that nicer woods stand out and brighten the interior more, such as those beams you laminated last episode.
You and Janni are on the same page. She's all about the bright white interior, and in the end, she will probably make the final decision.
Wood on the inside, fiberglass on the outside.
Exactly
See a cat channel is much better :) As to your question re wood or fibreglass it boils down to 3 questions aesthetics structural strength and cost. If you create a composite of glass foam and more glass that will be very strong and long lasting, as to the aesthetics you can create ceiling panels. Obviously cost will be high but it should last the lifetime of the boat. The flip side is a couple of layers of glass over plywood. Cost much cheaper probably last many years however structurally not as strong forget screwing deck hardware in. In the end both solutions will work as long as you do not need that strength so the answer is $$$$.
I would use the plywood as the inside skin of a foam cored part, so it would be pretty stiff. But I take your point that it would be very low maintenance to use fiberglass. thanks
go with wood
Hi Matt, are you going to have an overhang on the doghouse roof? I think you can give great water drainage with an incorporated water gathering trough and this may be a better way of keeping water away from the doghouse sides. Personally I’d go for a fibreglass sandwich. I’d be looking to reinforce the roof with stainless pipe or a good quality hardwood. It needs to be as strong as the hull ideally? There’s a great you tube video of dog house construction th-cam.com/video/T5m2cLXzC38/w-d-xo.html
Yes there will be an overhang all the way around to keep rain off the windows and aft to get out of the weather a little. I've thought about this some more and I may set up a water collection system off of it as well, what do you think?
@@TheDuracellProject yes, I’d definitely go for a water collection system. Not much work for a great pay off. Even if it’s just to store water to rinse salt off the windows 😜
....☝❤✌👍💪😁🇵🇭
Why is the narration only coming out of my left headphone.
Because your right ones broken?? Sorry.
My mistake. Still learning all the ins and outs of audio...and we may need to upgrade our audio equipment. We know that our sound is less than great right now! -Janneke
Go for wood