The study with women doing DB preacher curls vs incline curls: the resistance profile is the difference. Incl. curl is hardest in the shortened position and preacher curl is hardest in the lenghtened position (elbow). Stretched bicep at the shoulder joint doesnt matter in the db incline curl since the biceps activation is minimal in the lenghtened part of the exercise
That was a good one. I found the comments on tempo and stretch sensation to be particularly helpful. I'll be making some mods to a couple of exercises.
I find all of the preacher-curl versus incline-curl studies very interesting. I'm a huge preacher curl fan (favoring stability and strictness, mostly with machine variations), so I quietly root for them. But I do realize that they're probably influencing the shape of my biceps. I've really developed the distal end and especially my short head side of the muscle. Perhaps someday I'll put a larger amount of my volume with an incline curl (or facing away cable curl). However, it's hard to compete with the 'fun' factor for an exercise. If it isn't stale or injurious and I'm still making good progress, I'm gonna keep a lift in my program for a substantial period of time. I do appreciate the commentary around care with very stretched portions of a lift. Careful technique, a relatively slow eccentric and being really mindful of your joints / how the tension on the muscle feels is very important to ensuring that you can continue to lift this way in the long term. I tend to naturally slow down in the stretched position to exhibit extra care and focus. Absolutely start light and build up toward a 'typical' weight.
Sounds like preacher curls are working well for you. I think any curl variation is going to be pretty effective over the long term. But like you mentioned, technique is important to ensure a good stimulus and a lower injury risk 👍
not true. muscles at their shortened and lengthened positions are at their weakest muscles have a strength curve and their strength curve and power are somewhere in the middle
Amazingly detailed videos. Thanks for all the effort you put in these. I will concentrate on lengthened partials after resp-pauses now instead of struggling to hit full ROM now.
Fellow exercise physiologist here from the UK. Stop following every other "influencer" and just watch this guy. Excellent video and rivals some lectures I've seen. Peer-reviewed support and critical comment all the way through. Outstanding content
I would really want to see a study that also includes a group that does Full ROM first then lengthened to finish the set Second exploring how combining resistance training and stretching affects hypertrophy would be interesting
A good subject! The incline bicep vs preacher curl results are probably corrupted by most people being so good at reducing the load at the lengthened position of the inclined curs. They are good at doing that at preacher curl too. But there, they can't get rid of all the tension. But they never straighten the arm compleatly! By the way, you lengthen the biceps some more by twisting the lower arm to a neutral grip. 40 years ago I used a contraption which supported the elbows at standing biceps curls. It prevented them from moving back those few centimeters we otherwise do. More tension with the biceps streached. It was very effective! Have you realized that the quads are most lengthened in sissy squats, not in regular squats? I have always liked training muscles in a streached position. It just feels nice!
Thanks again for the video!! Would it be possible to make a video of long-term studies? I myself have almost 30 years of training background and I believe that I have a lot of data on my part 😁
Unfortunately there aren't many long-term studies on hypertrophy training. The best we can do is use observations and anecdotes - such as your training history 👍
Fascinating subject with a lot of layers. Lying leg curls put sartorius in lengthened position. Preacher curls are more challenging at the bottom of the ROM, the most lengthened position for that exercise. Face away cable curls or lying curls would be better in theory, because same thing but more lengthened. Spider curls would be worse in theory (for overall growth but not regional necessarily). There was another interesting study where overhead triceps extensions resulted in more growth at ALL tricep regions compared to pushdowns. Glute max is tricky, as it has better leverage at shorter lengths. That said, per a couple studies, ATG squats grow glutes more than partial squats, and squats are just as good as hip thrusts (for overall growth),this even despite further proximity from glute failure with squats.
Yes, there are many layers to the muscle length discussion. I think it is one influential variable among many others - so we shouldn't just focus on training at the longest length possible 👍
For tricep pull down the best is single arm behind you, this means standing in an inclining using your one arm to hold yourself and doing the one arm cable pulldown with your arm straight down to the floor. You will get the best stretch and therefore most activation in the fully extended position here, increasing your range of motion even compared to the overhead variant
It seems long length partials are most beneficial for isolation exercises and not compound. Since compound exercises target multiple muscle groups, long length partials will inhibit secondary muscle groups from growing since they won't be getting any stimulus from the exercise
Howdy - just about to fall off to sleep at the six second mark but I think I heard a strange word, phonetically - tekneekies?? What does that mean... small techniques?
Isn't the most shortened position for the biceps over the head - like the position in the video but 90° counter clockwise? When I do this my biceps is close to cramping.
One day machines with better resistance curves will be commonplace, then maybe even lengthened partial machines to eliminate the main issue with partials, that being non-standardized ROM. Bet you then people would shut up about machines being inferior to free weights
Possibly. Although I have seen 1 or 2 studies which compared free-weight vs machines that were supposed to match the strength curves of movement - none of which found any notable benefit for free-weight or machines 🤔
so ould it not make more sense to pick an excercise and just rep it out from full range of motion right down to barely moving it? In theory that wouldn't that hit both lengthened and shortened positions? Also would different excercises for the same muscle group have different impacts? for triceps for example is it enough to just do rope extensions, push downs and skullcrushers long as you're repping it out or should you add the other meriad of tricep excercises in with it? interesting discussion and might even be worth its own video.
Yes, I think it makes sense to reduce range of motion as you reach failure with full ROM. Although, the exact cut-off point is unclear at this stage. I personally have stopping sets once I cannot complete around 50% of the full ROM. And keep in mind this strategy only works for some exercises. Check out this video for how many exercises I recommend to train each muscle group with th-cam.com/video/4-m-MpTqgZQ/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
@@FlowHighPerformance1 should talk to a few gyms around your area and see if their gym goers would be interested in doing a ROM study. would be interesting.
Eventually they will say that the difference in lengthened and shortened is so small its not worth even considering. Just like the majority of these hypertrophy studies it is splitting hairs.
Good confirmation of basics which most lifters and gym goers should all know by now.. never the less a very informative video , would have been even better if a real person was doing the excercise to show the muscle while working in the shorter and longer range of motion , rather than using the stick cartoon...
![เกิดใหม่ทั้งทีก็เป็นสไลม์ไปซะแล้ว ซีซั่น 3 - ตอนที่ 69 [ซับไทย]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QuodflInQT8/mqdefault.jpg)
This channel is spectacular
The study with women doing DB preacher curls vs incline curls: the resistance profile is the difference. Incl. curl is hardest in the shortened position and preacher curl is hardest in the lenghtened position (elbow). Stretched bicep at the shoulder joint doesnt matter in the db incline curl since the biceps activation is minimal in the lenghtened part of the exercise
That's correct. So total muscle length isn't the ONLY priority. Tension at different lengths / ROM's also influences hypertrophy outcomes 👍
Good comment on minimal biceps activation in lengthened part of db incline curl. I hadn't thought of that.
so it would be best to train in a lengthened position like in an inclined curl but swap out dumbbells for cables to have better resistance curve
@@problemVLR exactly
@@problemVLRexcept at my gym where everyone homesteads the cable machines and check their phones and pose for 45minutes.
That was a good one. I found the comments on tempo and stretch sensation to be particularly helpful. I'll be making some mods to a couple of exercises.
Yes, these are probably the most practical takeaways that can be implemented in practice immediately 👍
Love this stuff, I have to watch it many times to digest it all.
Glad to hear it 👍
Same
I find all of the preacher-curl versus incline-curl studies very interesting. I'm a huge preacher curl fan (favoring stability and strictness, mostly with machine variations), so I quietly root for them. But I do realize that they're probably influencing the shape of my biceps. I've really developed the distal end and especially my short head side of the muscle. Perhaps someday I'll put a larger amount of my volume with an incline curl (or facing away cable curl). However, it's hard to compete with the 'fun' factor for an exercise. If it isn't stale or injurious and I'm still making good progress, I'm gonna keep a lift in my program for a substantial period of time.
I do appreciate the commentary around care with very stretched portions of a lift. Careful technique, a relatively slow eccentric and being really mindful of your joints / how the tension on the muscle feels is very important to ensuring that you can continue to lift this way in the long term. I tend to naturally slow down in the stretched position to exhibit extra care and focus. Absolutely start light and build up toward a 'typical' weight.
Sounds like preacher curls are working well for you. I think any curl variation is going to be pretty effective over the long term. But like you mentioned, technique is important to ensure a good stimulus and a lower injury risk 👍
True! You always get the best performance in the lengthened position.
not true. muscles at their shortened and lengthened positions are at their weakest muscles have a strength curve and their strength curve and power are somewhere in the middle
Great video bro! Thank you for all your effort, we'll make good use of it :))
No problem 👍
Amazingly detailed videos. Thanks for all the effort you put in these. I will concentrate on lengthened partials after resp-pauses now instead of struggling to hit full ROM now.
no problem, glad it was helpful 👍
Fellow exercise physiologist here from the UK. Stop following every other "influencer" and just watch this guy. Excellent video and rivals some lectures I've seen. Peer-reviewed support and critical comment all the way through. Outstanding content
Glad to get your stamp of approval 💪
I would really want to see a study that also includes a group that does Full ROM first then lengthened to finish the set
Second exploring how combining resistance training and stretching affects hypertrophy would be interesting
Yes, that would be interesting. I personally use this approach in my own training 👍
I'd like to see how it affects 1RM strength, instead of only hypertrophy
Thank you again for educating us.. 👏👏👏
No problem 👍
Great, I'll keep this in mind
A good subject!
The incline bicep vs preacher curl results are probably corrupted by most people being so good at reducing the load at the lengthened position of the inclined curs.
They are good at doing that at preacher curl too. But there, they can't get rid of all the tension. But they never straighten the arm compleatly!
By the way, you lengthen the biceps some more by twisting the lower arm to a neutral grip.
40 years ago I used a contraption which supported the elbows at standing biceps curls. It prevented them from moving back those few centimeters we otherwise do. More tension with the biceps streached.
It was very effective!
Have you realized that the quads are most lengthened in sissy squats, not in regular squats?
I have always liked training muscles in a streached position. It just feels nice!
Yes, I like to use the feeling of 'stretch under load' as a guide for technique and exercise selection 💪
Appreciate the high-quality content. Love the practical recommendations and will modify my routine and see how it goes. Thanks !
No problem, glad it was helpful 👍
Again, great video! Thanks FHP!
No problem 👍
The makes sense about training a muscle at near maximal Length. This is the most mechanically disadvantageous state.
I just discovered this channel with this video and, wow! Very nice content!
welcome
Well done, Very Well Done!
Great video! Thanks for the thorough explanation.
no problem 👍
Thanks again for the video!!
Would it be possible to make a video of long-term studies?
I myself have almost 30 years of training background and I believe that I have a lot of data on my part 😁
Unfortunately there aren't many long-term studies on hypertrophy training. The best we can do is use observations and anecdotes - such as your training history 👍
Fascinating subject with a lot of layers. Lying leg curls put sartorius in lengthened position. Preacher curls are more challenging at the bottom of the ROM, the most lengthened position for that exercise. Face away cable curls or lying curls would be better in theory, because same thing but more lengthened. Spider curls would be worse in theory (for overall growth but not regional necessarily). There was another interesting study where overhead triceps extensions resulted in more growth at ALL tricep regions compared to pushdowns. Glute max is tricky, as it has better leverage at shorter lengths. That said, per a couple studies, ATG squats grow glutes more than partial squats, and squats are just as good as hip thrusts (for overall growth),this even
despite further proximity from glute failure with squats.
Yes, there are many layers to the muscle length discussion. I think it is one influential variable among many others - so we shouldn't just focus on training at the longest length possible 👍
Great video as always!
cheers 👍
Incline curls with the arms bent further back are best!
For tricep pull down the best is single arm behind you, this means standing in an inclining using your one arm to hold yourself and doing the one arm cable pulldown with your arm straight down to the floor.
You will get the best stretch and therefore most activation in the fully extended position here, increasing your range of motion even compared to the overhead variant
Sounds like a great exercise for the two short heads. Maybe not the most stretch for the long head though 🤔
@@FlowHighPerformance1 yes i agree, i should have added the sidenote that you should have both in your routine to work the full muscle
Could you give an example per muscle group that train the muscles at longer lengths?
Maybe in a future video 👍
Please make a review or study about pulse reps or x-reps!
havent seen any research on this
It seems long length partials are most beneficial for isolation exercises and not compound. Since compound exercises target multiple muscle groups, long length partials will inhibit secondary muscle groups from growing since they won't be getting any stimulus from the exercise
This is definitely a possibility 💪
Kudos 🎩
This is why full rom in machine or cable is superior in most cases to free weights.
yep, cables often allow a more specific movement path that can help us train at longer muscle lengths
awesome
thanks mann
No problem 👍
Any videos on strength vs hypertrophy implementation prioritisation?
This video might be helpful th-cam.com/video/YC4nhESWFL8/w-d-xo.html
With the squat and leg press is the lengthened quads in the sitting position or standing please?
sitting
Howdy - just about to fall off to sleep at the six second mark but I think I heard a strange word, phonetically - tekneekies?? What does that mean... small techniques?
correct, it means small technique
A list of lengthened exercises would help those that are dense.
Maybe in a future video 👍
how do you lengthen partial a lateral raise with dumbbells? it's the first half starting from your waist or is it the top half? sorry newb lifter here
First half - starting from waist 👍
Isn't the most shortened position for the biceps over the head - like the position in the video but 90° counter clockwise? When I do this my biceps is close to cramping.
Yes, you are correct
One day machines with better resistance curves will be commonplace, then maybe even lengthened partial machines to eliminate the main issue with partials, that being non-standardized ROM. Bet you then people would shut up about machines being inferior to free weights
Possibly. Although I have seen 1 or 2 studies which compared free-weight vs machines that were supposed to match the strength curves of movement - none of which found any notable benefit for free-weight or machines 🤔
Can you put Arabic subtitles in the video?
I dont speak arabic
👍👍👍👍👍
I want to train my muscles but not injure my joints
try using lighter loads and higher reps, strict form and full ROM
@FlowHighPerformance1 great thanks or patiala reps may work
i tried it and am sore as fuck so it works
💪
how do they always find people to get paid to workout for science????
Usually they are university students. I doubt they usually get paid, probably just get academic credits or something 👍
@@FlowHighPerformance1 i see
so ould it not make more sense to pick an excercise and just rep it out from full range of motion right down to barely moving it?
In theory that wouldn't that hit both lengthened and shortened positions?
Also would different excercises for the same muscle group have different impacts? for triceps for example is it enough to just do rope extensions, push downs and skullcrushers long as you're repping it out or should you add the other meriad of tricep excercises in with it?
interesting discussion and might even be worth its own video.
Yes, I think it makes sense to reduce range of motion as you reach failure with full ROM. Although, the exact cut-off point is unclear at this stage. I personally have stopping sets once I cannot complete around 50% of the full ROM. And keep in mind this strategy only works for some exercises.
Check out this video for how many exercises I recommend to train each muscle group with th-cam.com/video/4-m-MpTqgZQ/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
@@FlowHighPerformance1 should talk to a few gyms around your area and see if their gym goers would be interested in doing a ROM study. would be interesting.
Eventually they will say that the difference in lengthened and shortened is so small its not worth even considering. Just like the majority of these hypertrophy studies it is splitting hairs.
Very possible. Ensuring you train sufficiently close to failure were the target muscle is the limiter is priority #1 💪
Good confirmation of basics which most lifters and gym goers should all know by now.. never the less a very informative video , would have been even better if a real person was doing the excercise to show the muscle while working in the shorter and longer range of motion , rather than using the stick cartoon...
Thanks for the feedback. Will consider using video footage of lifters where it is relevant 👍
Great video, as always.
Cheers Daniel 👍