“They’re left sitting in these little islands of isolation, fantasizing who they might have been and not ever being anything” these words broke my heart.
Against society without general interest and only make believe and only for it self and not for the general interest and everybody. No authenticity. Someone who is working at the detrimental of others and in the benefit of themselves. At the cost of society excluding others as it was for your own in what you are doing. It is as if you are only in the right and the other is always in the wrong and don"t want to see both sides.
@@LXSeaV Because the environment is not interested in people and their motives but only in interested money name and fame and not in people . Corrupt therapists who are this maybe they want to see people sick to earn money or to get better of it at the cost of you. Not of sincere interest and unwilling and uninterested. Unuseful at the detriment and don"t want to serve. .
This video has just opened my eyes on one acquaintance I had recently. I met a woman on a party who seemed very friendly and not threatening at all. She was younger and obviously admired me. I thought that she could become my friend because we shared interest in music. Soon I noticed that she is copying me - a haircut, a cocktail choice in a bar... She also seemed to have the same opinions and experiences as me. I thought that she is just very young and insecure. Then she changed her tactics: she was having the same things, opinions and experiences but better than me. Whatever I mentioned she already tried and mastered, whatever I wanted to try or buy she already had. Either she was just like me or better than me in every little thing. She bragged all the time assuming that other people are jealous of her. Often she bragged about her plans, future accomplishments but she felt so proud of herself like it was already hers. And I felt robbed - all my plans, tastes, looks, even feelings were appropriated by someone who didn't even like me anymore and always tried to devalue and belittle me. I wondered what was wrong with this person, why she is copying someone and devalues at the same time, why she is lying about her opinions and experiences and so on. I guess I understand now: she doesn't know that she's lying. She sincerely believes that if she sees something she likes she can declare it hers, that she is all the beautiful things in the world, that her goals are her accomplishments. And this is really scary
You got lucky you noticed the mimicking behavior early on. If those demons had gotten a hold of your life they would not and will not stop until you are completely gone in facets of being human from your spirit and soul if need be and preferred.
@@morpheusmirror2857do you also believe this friend of hers is showing competitive tendencies? From which at some point she will want to cut her out of her life, isn’t that the next step? She’s going to want to take her friends or acquaintances from her circle, and then close her out. That’s what they typically do. Her next step is to get some distance from this friend and reinforce her most significant peripheral relationships, in order to avoid any future damage, as they like to leave people damaged and isolated from the social networks. They all have the same predictable patterns of behaviors.
Isn't he the best at keeping things understandable?! We're continuing our work on this interview series and will keep on posting a new one every week. So happy to hear you're getting something out of it, and thanks for taking the time to comment!
@@BorderlinerNotes "...sitting in these little islands of isolation fantasizing about who they might be and never doing *anything* ..." Ouch. Thanks for posting this. It's one of the best summaries of narcissism I've seen. He keeps it simple and understandable.
I can't tell you how helpful this was to me. I have wrestled with whether I have NPD or not - this explanation helped me see more clearly that I have narcissistic traits and not NPD (most likely). Such a simple explanation has made a profound impact on me. Thank you.
Thank you so much for this channel. It helps me so much. I can't even begin to describe why and how. But it's the only channel where it feels safe for me to listens to the information on NPD and BPD. A channel where it's not about good and bad people, but about insight, empathy and understanding personality disorders. About really seeing humans.
@@howlingwaters2741 Matthew 7 :: NIV. "Do not JUDGE, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Again, do not JUDGE. You were not put on earth to make others feel ashamed. Shame is part of the problem, not the solution, not God's plan ;). Think about it babes.
It is so refreshing for me to see content on social media that doesn't demonise people with cluster B personalities. I understand that we humans naturally want to simplify and distinguish ourselves from people who have hurt us and we have difficulty understanding. However, for those of us who have access to a significant amount of quality resources, I think that we have a moral obligation to the rest of our fellow human beings to move away from devaluing cluster B people and reducing them to "monsters," and "demons.". I'm not suggesting that we all have to learn everything we can about every single thing that pops up in life - that's not realistic - but I think we need to at least acknowledge when we lack understanding about a fellow human who is more difficult to get along with instead of "othering" them. I think we need to acknowledge that even humans who we find are "difficult," or exhibit undesirable behaviours are still human and not some other thing that we can easily justify our mistreatment of. These types of people can trigger discomfort and uncertainity - sometimes even trigger fear - in ourown sense of self. Sometimes these people exhibit a trait that triggers shame in us because we realise on some level that we have that particular trait too. Sometimes, being around these people challenges us to empathise and show compassion when we're still feeling the sting of their actions. Sometimes, we realise that under the "right circumstances," we might have ended up being a narcissist too. It's uncomfortable and unsettling when we rraluse that so much of our personality is determined genetically and environmentally from conception (things none of us had any control over). Difficult things such as personality disorders sparks curiosity in me about human nature, existence, and I wonder if any of it has inherent meaning. This is refreshing content and I sincerely hope education like this will help humanity develop more empathy and compassion.
"Trigger discomfort and uncertainty" you say? Do you think maybe that's it? That living with a narcissist just "somehow challenges us to empathize" with them? I honestly don't mean to be rude here but, let me tell you: it is BECAUSE I empathized, that I got married, then had children, then endured hell for two decades, just to not leave my kids alone with her. Only when they were all through school I divorced, but STILL she is not satisfied, she finds endless ways to put sisters and brothers against each other, and against me. I am a pretty decent man, may I say, or just a common guy for the point's sake, and yet two of my kids won't talk to me, as a result of her intrigues. And one of them is ostracized by the others. And the second youngest took his life for Christmas, my hands shake as I write this. So please go find a little bit about the suffering narcissists inflict on others, and then come back with your sparks of curiosity. And yes I was rude, I am sorry, but life is shitty around these people. They deserve a chance, a cure, certainly, but for the most part they DON'T want it.
@francochianale493 Hi, I can see how my comment came across as minimising difficult experiences with narcissists, and I'm sorry my choice of words didn't accurately convey the true intentions behind it. I didn't see your reply as rude - I can see that my comment truggered sonething very painful for you and I am sorry you have had to go through that. Although, my situation has been a very different one to yours (I have a narcisitic parent who is borderline as well - another cluster B personality), I really feel for you and can relate to your experience of having family members turn on you because of the manipulations and selfishness of the narcissist. I've been on the other end of numerous triangulations and have had outright lies told about me that had painful repercussions. It's very painful to have someone you love do these things to you. As a child, I could not help but internalise all of it - I still struggle with the fear, anxieties, anger, mistrust in myself and others, and depressive episodes that typically comes with it. And worse, when I pucked up the courage to tell someone about it, they just could not understand how a parent could be that way and so I was dismissed or had my experience minimised. But that's what I was touching on in my comment: that all humans struggle to acknowledge or validate the experiences of others (victims and perpetrators alike) and that lack of understanding creates problems for all amd keeps the cycles of dysfunction continuing. I've been in therapy for 7 years now and I am finally better off. And now I can see that it's not their fault that they are the way they are. I can't make them change - and it's best I don't have that kind of power anyway. The ball is in their court and if they choose to hold onto it, then I can choose to walk away from the game or find another way to play tennis. I only have choices over what I do - and with a narcissist, unfortunately that means a lot of the choices I have are crap. But I'll try the best with what I have, and that's good enough for me. I've learned that I can be empathetic without letting them cross my boundaries - and that's where a lot of my sense of empowerment comes from these days. What I won't do anymore, is use my parents' actions and personalities to justify the crappy treatment I have given to them or others. Taking responsibility for my shortcomings does not hinge on them taking responsibility for theirs. I hope that provides helpful context - if not, I tried my best. I sincerely hope that you are better off. I hope the wounds in your family are healing. It is rough 😔
So much more reflected than most others talking about narcissism on youtube, there are actually only quite few people with true npd, most people who are being labelled narcissists do not fulfill enough criteria to have true npd
I have heard many in the field of psychology put forward the idea that "healthy narcissism" and narcissistic personality disorder are on a sliding scale, but it always seemed to me that it just appeared that way to an observer from the outside. This is the first time I've seen the point where one might cross over and become the other clearly described in a way that I can make sense of.
Basically narc traits are the trauma that the victim or the person put up to protect their wellbeing and mind in response to what they have been through. In a sense, it is healthy albeit it is not their normal original. This is not on the spectrum of disorder. The NPD on another hand has a different type of narc and they are on the disorder spectrum of types.
Wow. The greatest explanation of narcissism i have ever heard. I struggle with narcissistic traits for sure but have never been able to relate to the description until this man. Thank you... I'm trying.
@@PanzerChicken69 Fragile? Let me tell you something . You have no right to attack a random person you do not know just because they’re brave enough to admit that they may have some issue. I am extremely offended, by your callous, unfounded attack. It’s you who are fragile. You are a bully, and I quite frankly, YOU are the only god damned narcissist I can see here. Fuck you.
@@andrewwabik5125 This person is clearly a narcissist or trolling. For someone to say something like that they would have to be very delusional and in a lot of pain on a daily basis. I feel bad for them. That person cannot be taken seriously
Yeomans is the best! Kernberg is also great, but he uses more difficult psychoanalytic jargon, so its not as easy to get into. Yeomans has such a clear way of talking, despite the enormous difficulty of objectrelations theory.
Excellent video again. I think the turn to a narcissistic cultural structure has much to do with consumerism that treats everything including people as commodities, erodes substantive interpersonal relationships or puts on at odds to maintain them and atomizes every aspects of how we view meeting needs into transactions. Parents not being able to truly be their, if they know how to with their parents having faced much the same constructed hierarchy of overvaluing profit generating actions and devaluing leisure and emotional resource cultivation. Children emotional raise themselves with evidence of little optimal coping strategies being found as they desperately group through the dark for relief from the many small 'T' traumas of life. These experiences with natural meaningfully importance, contorted by unnatural expectations and constraints on interpersonal resources are stripped of their potential for bonding and attunement. Experiences that would otherwise be benign or beneficent in emotionally rich environments, absent of extremely overt destructive conditions, then become at most interactions of objectification. You perform a function, a role, a service, are an outlet, an escape, a hope with little consideration for your true thoughts, feelings and desires in too many "close" relationships. Even asserting your humanness and emotional needs in such circumstances can be seen as a challenge and disruptive to you externally assigned "function" for someone else's benefit that they are loosely and subconsciously convinced you are designated for. Ultimately these ideas more or less are very common and in my experience contribute to a lot of unhealthy coping. It's the mental emotional equivalent of either eating junk food, eating processed and slightly supplemented "health" food or overcoming circumstantial obstacles to eat whole natural foods to live. You can survive consuming all three options and there are multiple variants within the three categories but only under one can you function optimally and get the most out of life. There is a lot of unhealthy "food" to abstractly consume these days.
This is an excellent analysis. Respectfully, perhaps take a look at punctuation, sentence structure and spell check. You have much to offer. Your insight is worth a channel of its own. Truly, respect.
Isolating in their parents basement, this is exactly what my childhood bestfriend has been doing throughout his twenties, he was such an awesome person growing up. But somewhere along his journey I believe he developed NPD, I eventually had to cut ties with him. Every interaction was him talking about being famous and some big shot, but in reality he was doing nothing with his life, no job, no nothing. I feel bad for him and wish there was something I could do, but I can't do anything to help, he needs to help himself. I mentioned therapy but he said that he doesn't need it and he just needs to hangout with successful people.
@@rockyp32 yea I agree or he may be a borderline with certain other traits. Narcissists rarely isolate. They are always out looking for new supply. Isolation is more of Borderline symptom
I think his last words were the best. People isolating themselves in their little box and imagining rather than living because the wotld is too difficult to live in
Whoa that ended up being a million times more enlightening than I thought. I've never heard anyone explain how important that isolation component is to upholding their grandiosity but I definitely see that in the people in my life who are the most narcissistic. Makes me sad because my little sister has been living at home for too long ... hope she gets out and gets real sometime soon. I don't know if she has NPD--I really don't think she does. But there's so much NPD/BPD in my family, I think a lot of those habits can definitely rub off on everyone.
I understand that from a single point of view, the one of the individuals trying to find a place in the world, the NPD, so the extreme situation, is a pathological issue for psychiatrists and psychoanalysts. But from a social point of view, a lot of people with just some narcissistic traits, not so severe to be considered NPD, can reach the sphere of the pathological too, even if they are professionally realized and they seem to have a realistic approach to life. They are difficult to stand, difficult to be sincere with. These traits are already there in their twenties, and when we are young we all try to say "Look at me, I'm cool, I'm strong, I'm a rising star!", but today that we are 40s, I find difficult to keep friendship relationships with old pals who show narcissistic traits...
I'm middle aged, spent years avoiding people so as not to get triggered into spirals of self-loathing. I totally agree with what he says at the end. I started working in a big workplace 3 years ago. The reality is that we, people, in general, are fundamentally flawed and quite unremarkable. Nothing quite like that realisation to knock the narcissistic traits into shape! Working in a big workplace with working class people I hear all sorts of opinions about all sorts of things. Some I agree with, some I don't. It's actually quite interesting to just listen to people, don't get emotional, just hear their point of view and discuss with upmost respect. Disengage from those who try to dismiss you. As adults we can chose who we invest our time in. The trouble is that until we realise we're unremarkable, like everybody else, we will continue to categorise people as either worthy of our attention or unworthy. Which is a classic narcissistic move! Social media breeds this division, how many times today have you seen something on Facebook and thought "what a fuc*ing idiot"....
Last 5 min was so true. Im 39 and did same and now im all alone cause only family i had(mom and grandma) are dead and here i am with nolife...a prisoner in my own head
@@YongyoonKim Ew what? I'm exactly the same, rotting away at home with no life. With the only difference that I'm actually actively starting up a biz, putting in lots of effort. I think it's very hard to diagnose yourself with NPD just because one lives in isolation and fantasizes about the future.
Everyone has a purpose in life. Just you saying that you are a narcissist is a good step. How about this, you know the mistakes you made because of your narcissism, would you like someone younger to live with that as well? Everyone wants to throw a narcissist away and act like they are all serial killers, not true. Your purpose can be helping others who might be in the same situation and may not be aware of it or not aware of the word narcissism. 😄
@@champshannonthecannon5652 I love helping people! It's that people usually start assuming I'm being nice or helping them for alternative motives which 90% of time is untrue. More people take advantage of me the more I isolate. I've been used alot unfortunately
I'd love more videos like this. There's loads of videos on Narcissistic abuse in relationships, but sometimes you meet some one who has red flags of narcissistic traits; the occasional self-importance, arrogance, selfishness and sensitivity to criticism - but doesn't really tick all the boxes of a full-blown narcissist. It's very confusing because you are led to believe these people are black and white, but it never really added up. I think it's important to understand the spectrum of these things, for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes, it's good to notice people's flaws and act accordingly, without necessarily dehumanising them (you can avoid them without thinking everyone should shun them and treat them as evil). The problem is, most of what you read leads people to diagnosing people we don't know that well as narcissists which can be as unhelpful as ignoring the red flags.
We must be cognizant that there is a range of narcissism. We all have innate narcissist qualities. It is necessary for self preservation. The majority of us have grown out of the infant narcissism and adapted to social mores'; however we are capable of returning to our narcissist behavior when we become overwhelmed such as in severe depression.
I think this was the best description of narcissism I’ve ever heard and I’ve spent a fair amount of time looking into this topic. Thank you for posting this, it was very helpful.
You dont have to have a Narcissistic idealized Self. Thats the whole point. Not taking your real Self to that. Giving up on that Narcissitic idealized self, baby. People may want you to burn in hell when you force that idealized self on them!
The world is difficult that is reality. To deny that means we suffer from delusion or as he says a self narrative to alleviate us from reality aka narcissism. Welcome to the club🤍
Believe me, I’ve tried working, but never had a career as such. Not because I was holding out for some unattainable goal, though I do have my fantasies. It’s just that I know the first time something went wrong, or I made a mistake, I’d invariably have a screaming meltdown that got me fired. Not having had a career is a tremendous source of shame for me, and I feel like a parasite for living on disability. But in a way I figure I’m doing prospective employers a favor by not working. They don’t have to deal with me.
OH MY GOD!, JUST FOUND YOU.FIRST DR.,COUSELER ETC. THAT I CAN RELATE TOO.thank you Dr. Frank!! just subscribed but want, and need to hear from you.comfort, your way of talking, for me is great. Looking forward to hearing more.
I actually felt many times as a narcissist and a borderline but I never was neither malignant or notoriously self destructive so I couldn't completely identify with those diagnoses until I discovered the covert borderline proposed by Sam Vaknin and it woke me the fuck up. With distance from abusers (practically most people I ever met) and facing the painfull truth im slowly healing, starting to build my own inner dialogue and thinking, my own voice and silencing abusers voices. And putting the hard work and discipline of course, I always had a sense of agency even if not completely true.
Also very important: some of my "narcissism" is actually internalized voices from abusers is like I know I have narcissistic defenses but also the "awareness" of my own narcissism sometimes is internalized abuse and not actually narcissism... I can pinpoint my own grandiosity (which I know it was implanted by abusers) but its not as big and rigid as in NPD and can actually work with it and make it more realistic objectives and goals. And another big one I have is trying to "control" abusers by idealizing them and rendering them inocuous (which is very destructive for myself of course) I would suggest by my own experiences that most of the diagnosed as depression, anxiety disorders, even co dependency or borderline come not for who you actually are but for you not being allowed to BE, a root cause: narc abuse or just plain abuse. And when you distance from abusers and work with yourself to kill their voices you start to heal and cure, I dont think labels are any good for victims but a good guide!
That 28 year daughter sounds just like a then 22 year old know it all come in and changed the farm operation to benefit him and he nearly ran it into the ground in 2013. But being a narcissist he felt entitled to call the shots on the farm and pull the wool over my parents eyes. I knew he was a problem and my parents wouldn't listen to me. They thought he was the greatest thing since the invention of sliced bread when he was about as useful as a screen door on a submarine. He left the farm because he wasn't going to get ownership. He then tries to convince my parents to sell it to him for next to nothing. Just sickening.
I wanna keep watching a lot more of frank yeoman’s videos. he is just so knowledgeable... I wish he creates a TH-cam channel with loads of long videos.
'fantasizing about who they MIGHT be' yeah I'm a narcissist and this is an accurate description of my fantasies, I don't have a god complex or think I'm superman or think I'm better than everyone else (I see a lot of people as superior to me), like how a lot of these dumbasses talk about narcissism (which probably doesn't solve the problem), I've just felt like I could be and should be very similar to people who appear to have a lot of control over their survival and basic needs, in regards to how I live, talk and behave. For example, I've molded myself off of Ant Middleton from the SAS Channel 4 docuseries, when talking to people... why? Because the guy appears to have more control over his survival and basic needs, he might not earn a lot but he's probably capable of surviving a bit of poverty with all his special forces training and living in jungles etc. I've only recently become more aware that people can see what I'm doing and have a rough idea of what I'm thinking and that I'm not being authentic, and as a result, have stopped getting so annoyed when people give me funny distrusting looks and gestures. I'm trying to keep calm and focussed on the stuff I actually like without it being about being someone who's better at surviving and having mastery over basic needs and that has a lot of charisma and is likeable by a lot of people. My true self appears to be more laid back than that when I try to actually incorporate some structure in my life like most other people do.
I may have seen this in my mother. Despite me being in daily contact with her, she might’ve sunken into isolation. Her husband died, she was involved in a legal dispute and I think it caused this Sunken Costs Fallacy, which caused her to feel literally abandoned in her quest for success. I’d always been the most supportive child and she’d actually been a pretty self-motivating and independent person. But, once her husband died, it was like the only person I could be to her, was the enemy that wasn’t making things happen. I didn’t even realize it, for quite some time. But, for her, it grew covert narcissism so, the idea that I’d be doing anything like looking for a job, during the recession or working, to support myself or even to be asleep at night, became absolute betrayal and me a target to destroy, because she couldn’t control me. She may have been narcissistically healthy, earlier in life. But it completely soured into covert narcissism, in a very malignant way.
Are their loving” feelings even really love? I don’t think Narcissists even love themselves which is why they have to exaggerate to makeup for what they lack but yeah that ending wooo I have some work to do because that’s exactly me 😔
I went through a stage of being narcissistic . People will just power trip you if you at raging at them. People love to act superior to boost their self esteem. Females will get checked and told off. I have tried to be more polite and confident and have a positive attitude. Give my self positive mantras.
Probably why most borderlines are women, they are never allowed to develop that grandiose self. Because like you said, females will get checked if they try to act grandiose.
I would agree but I think most people suffer from just being selfish which is definitely a key aspect of narcissism but narcissism itself is a much more complex disorder and I don’t think it would be wise to generalize it to the majority of people
I would love to know your take on how harmful, a "Christian Therapist" who is CEO of his counseling group. The same man is a very angry man. He was my therapist for 13 years. The damage done to me is more than I can express. He always has a few older women he treats more like his girlfriends than clients. His game was to tell you he loved you then say it is not romantic, yet my first few sessions with him he told me he " Felt the sexual tension" when we were alone together.
"fantasizing about what they could be, but never really being anything".... Wow. I think anyone who has been spoilt will have to have these realizations. You actually have to put in effort and work to get where you really want to be. Not where others want you to be.
I agree that our definitions and attitudes of narcissism have to change. These days narcissism is Believe to be a spectrum rather than a condition. It is true we need a certain amount of narcissism, or egoism (not egotism), in order to function and live well in the world, the pathological side then would be NPD. However, perhaps narcissism is not a term we should use for this and it should be separated from normal narcissistic behaviors. Such as we won't let someone cheat us because we value our reputation or integrity, but if we cheat someone to improve our reputation then we are at a point of malignancy, lacking empathy. Normal levels of narcissism then should be considered a good thing, but the term itself has become wholly negative, as has the word retard. So we either adopt a positive connotation of narcissism or reserve it for the malignant disorder. Because malignant narcissism has its own spectrum from the passive-aggressive, covert narcissist to the overt egotistical megalomaniac, it could very stand alone from functional narcissism/egoism.
Am I wrong to postulate that some narcissists present as impulsively self absorbed ? . So self involved that no one matters only in the context of what people can do for them .
It is worth noting that a regular a bit self-centered person is not going to enter into a frenzy over someone pointing out some harmless real fact (Hey Jane, you usually do not wake up early do you), will not go on an endless relentless revenge spree against that person over that, and won’t try to chase them into the grave. Because how dared they imply the narcissist was not perfect.
"Who am I?" is a question only the pseudo Narcissist would ask. The collective version of this question remains "Who are we?", which I concluded decades ago was one of the most idiotic questions ever conceived. The pertinent questions, almost converse to these, were always "What am I?" and "What are we?" respectively. Answering the latter lays an intelligent foundation for the former. That is to say, "Who one is" will only make sense once one has a full working comprehension of "What one is".
What solution for a feeling of unrootedness, of not feeling in charge of one's life and even wanting to destroy it, but not knowing why? What solution for attacking the couple not understanding why? And when understanding why, doesn't manke any difference, because intelectually understanding something doesn't change a damn thing (makes things worse sometimes). How do you deal with trying your best to fit which is exhausting and then feeling like you deserve a break which you impose on your family, which is unfair, but you don't know better. How do you deal with being told by your shrink after 20 years that you should love your husband as he is, which sounds like doing a cartwhel on one finger? What solutions? I have some ideas but NPD is not a bunch of maladaptive traits .
Found a very good video on a channel called "Resilient Life Therapy". She has a video called The Narcissistic Parent which is very insightful. Thought you may find it interesting.
Instead of clinging to thoughts and Ego, the cure to this Narcissistic traits is this, surrender to your own true self, surrender to your good intentions and integrity..... Intelligent vs spirituality, thoughts vs hearts and compassion.... Those old true self inside of you that you left behind, instead of clinging in those negative thoughts and delusions....
Can that barrier ever be broken down to where a person can actually experience love and intimate relationships with others at the same capacity and manner that healthy individuals without narcissism personality disorder do? Does the actual purpose of being able to love in this capacity even of importance if they can obtain a similar purpose/goal by being aware of how their narcissism causes the ability of others not to feel loved? If the same conclusion is met but obtained in a different way does it matter how it arrived to the point? For myself the entire process of Love and empathy is what keeps myself able to maintain a healthy relationship and feeling of love! Who is to say what is correct and what is not? Sorry if I am not explaining my question completely. I'm still struggling with the words because I have not yet been able to completely digest my ideas, thoughts on this topic at this point. Possibly my question is can someone who has narcissistic personality disorder be capable of feeling empathy for another person and for all the people that they come into contact with? A empathy test was given to an individual with this condition and scored relatively high on having empathy. What I have noticed is when this person feels attacked, their reality has been threatened or they have experienced an injury from another person they no longer feel any empathy for the individual! If this happens simultaneously more than one person has broken any of these defense barriers they seem to go on attack with everyone they come in contact with and in a result destroying their own lives and the people who are in them by the choices they make, it seems to trigger their impulsive excessiveness as well.. everything becomes all or nothing, black and white. This seems to cause their lives to be stuck in a perpetual circle never being able to get out, grow learn or move forward for their lives to evolve. At the same time I noticed that there is one person who they seem to always have empathy for and I don't believe it isn't only because they see this person as an extension of their self!
The way this man is explaining makes it seem like people with NPD are not as harmful as they are. Inflated sense of self, a tool, is a problem but isn't what makes someone with NPD scary. They purposely ruin you life to inflate themselves is. Taking time to focus on self, even away from others and seeing your own problems because you notice trends and want to fix them is normal. Not spending time to look at yourself is a problem.
Marnie Grohs not really. Think about it. He is explaining in a normal and calm/educated manner. Just search narcissism and all the articles are attack attack like yours. If that’s the case then what? Kill all of them. At least he is calmly trying to help people understand and state that hey maybe we can help some of these people.
@@champshannonthecannon5652 I'd like some help. That'd be great. But it's to the chopping block for this old narcissist apparently. They won't even diagnose me correctly. I still hold the borderline label lol. Weird sh*t trauma does. But we don't really need help. We need to collapse in a safe environment and then accept the ego death that's happened. It's actually called enlightenment and it's part of Buddhism. Interesting how this works.
Thoughts and Ego never accept reality as it is, it always find flaws in everything, blame everything, criticize and hate every thing.... While our own heart, our own true self much more forgiving and accepting on people flaws and imperfections..... That's why all those new age Guru's tell us to not clinging to our own thoughts, cause those thoughts is full of lie, full of imagined worst scenario, of catastrophy or past trauma....
I have a question, if you're isolating away from the narcissist and stuck because you're dealing with narcissists does that make you are narcissist too? But, you're not isolating from all people just the narcissist.
I adopted a cat today and someone else her sister . The place she chose around the house is right next to a mirror. Wouldn't even look at me and turned her head towards the mirror each time. Now after a few hours and interaction she's already moving around the house, getting curious and so on. So someone needs to (for real reason and not superficiality) take the NPD away from the "one in the mirror".
Hi doc, I know some of this can cause compound anxiety on a normal person. But to somebody who’s healthy and knows it because they live it, wouldn’t it be extra sickening. These grandiose narratives and toxic abuse?
But she isn't hurting anyone for meditating and it's one of the better things you do? I need a more complex answer than that this is to simple, but definetly a spectrum.
not sure about this...the artistic endeavor must ALWAYS have a narcissistic element...it challenges how the rest of society sees the world..Van Gogh...Dali.. Picasso...is that..pathological ?
If it hurts others, likely. I think there is an element of healthy narcissism that artists can have. In fact, many of my friends are narcissistic and artists. But, they also possess empathy for others, which a person with npd lacks.
I agree if any kind of uniqueness will be called narcissism so the term will be misleading and a fireback sword! Self narrative is needed to build oneself in many cases. If you didn't believe in yourself no one would ever believe in you. It's an inside out work. Pathalogical narcissism is a real different thing. The self narrated stories are all lying and they mainly know it's lies they are aware of the pattern they get themselves into just to avoid facing the truth of the trauma that made them who they are today. The fine string between what's called healthy narcissism and I call it self esteem or one's belief is that these group of people are authentic empaths and hold no grudges or envy to no one. They don't want to harm or hurt anyone to achieve themselves and reach success. On the other hand real narcissists are all about harming, grudges and envying everyone cause they just can't face their limited barriers of fear and self doubt to flourish. Narcissism doesn't have to be divided into healthy and unhealthy traits to not lose its definition more than it's already being a dilemma to many people and phycologists!
The difference is that those artists worked and worked and worked at what they did. They didn't just sit there running stories in their heads about being a famous artist. Yes, there's a single-mindedness to what they did and how they developed, and probably some pretty potent narcissism and general inner mess. But they rolled their sleeves up and worked.
This seems really ignorant to the systemic reality that the world is now falling apart and opportunities are exceedingly limited for young people. I think he's right about this example, but be careful about stigmatizing young people for not leaving their parents' basement when they can't get a job that pays enough to even pay rent let alone buy a house.
A narcisisst lacks awareness of many things that are self evident for the majority of people? I think that is why they are so boring to listen to. One never have a conversation with an adult with NPD it is all about listening. They are the best and everybody else are less.
Are you sure that would be an NPD? We are not really coming across as haughty and arrogant. Some can of course, but we would be entertaining usually. Not Megan Markle type. Tell me.
There are npd having people who I genuinely like. They are upfront with me about it and I make sure to tell them I like them. I make sure to compliment them for things. This is my friend. His self doubt is hurting him. That self doubt monster is beating him up and I am going to protect my friend as much as I can when I am around. That monster hasn't died yet. It keeps getting up and going but I swear someone will get it done someday. Not every narcissist is Donald Trump or my mother.
“They’re left sitting in these little islands of isolation, fantasizing who they might have been and not ever being anything” these words broke my heart.
Yeah. My heart sank with the utter truth of that. They're so frustrating, but also such sad people, sad lives.
@@LXSeaV speak for yourself
yep, sad, but true; usually as you get older that island gets further and further from friendly neighboring land
Against society without general interest and only make believe and only for it self and not for the general interest and everybody. No authenticity. Someone who is working at the detrimental of others and in the benefit of themselves. At the cost of society excluding others as it was for your own in what you are doing. It is as if you are only in the right and the other is always in the wrong and don"t want to see both sides.
@@LXSeaV Because the environment is not interested in people and their motives but only in interested money name and fame and not in people . Corrupt therapists who are this maybe they want to see people sick to earn money or to get better of it at the cost of you. Not of sincere interest and unwilling and uninterested. Unuseful at the detriment and don"t want to serve. .
This video has just opened my eyes on one acquaintance I had recently.
I met a woman on a party who seemed very friendly and not threatening at all. She was younger and obviously admired me. I thought that she could become my friend because we shared interest in music. Soon I noticed that she is copying me - a haircut, a cocktail choice in a bar... She also seemed to have the same opinions and experiences as me. I thought that she is just very young and insecure.
Then she changed her tactics: she was having the same things, opinions and experiences but better than me. Whatever I mentioned she already tried and mastered, whatever I wanted to try or buy she already had. Either she was just like me or better than me in every little thing. She bragged all the time assuming that other people are jealous of her. Often she bragged about her plans, future accomplishments but she felt so proud of herself like it was already hers. And I felt robbed - all my plans, tastes, looks, even feelings were appropriated by someone who didn't even like me anymore and always tried to devalue and belittle me.
I wondered what was wrong with this person, why she is copying someone and devalues at the same time, why she is lying about her opinions and experiences and so on. I guess I understand now: she doesn't know that she's lying. She sincerely believes that if she sees something she likes she can declare it hers, that she is all the beautiful things in the world, that her goals are her accomplishments. And this is really scary
You got lucky you noticed the mimicking behavior early on. If those demons had gotten a hold of your life they would not and will not stop until you are completely gone in facets of being human from your spirit and soul if need be and preferred.
@@morpheusmirror2857do you also believe this friend of hers is showing competitive tendencies? From which at some point she will want to cut her out of her life, isn’t that the next step? She’s going to want to take her friends or acquaintances from her circle, and then close her out. That’s what they typically do. Her next step is to get some distance from this friend and reinforce her most significant peripheral relationships, in order to avoid any future damage, as they like to leave people damaged and isolated from the social networks. They all have the same predictable patterns of behaviors.
You undoubtedly are an immature teenager... That's the level of consciousness your complaints reflect.
Sounds like a Lifetime Movie I saw once. 😮
@@MaryClareVideos what's it's title?
This man is brilliant, he explains complex terms in such a clear, relatable and accessible way. Keep those videos coming please! - Thanks.
Isn't he the best at keeping things understandable?! We're continuing our work on this interview series and will keep on posting a new one every week. So happy to hear you're getting something out of it, and thanks for taking the time to comment!
@@BorderlinerNotes
"...sitting in these little islands of isolation fantasizing about who they might be and never doing *anything* ..."
Ouch. Thanks for posting this. It's one of the best summaries of narcissism I've seen. He keeps it simple and understandable.
Is he a professor? Should be!
BorderlinerNotes I’ve been researching narcissism for more than 2 years now and I find his explanations are profound and enlightening. Brilliant man!
@@jeanvandorst4287 but then again she isn't doing anything wrong? and it's also alot of parental errors
I can't tell you how helpful this was to me. I have wrestled with whether I have NPD or not - this explanation helped me see more clearly that I have narcissistic traits and not NPD (most likely). Such a simple explanation has made a profound impact on me. Thank you.
Some of the best information I’ve seen anywhere. Brilliant
Woah was watching for my mom but the end hit me
Thank you so much for this channel. It helps me so much. I can't even begin to describe why and how. But it's the only channel where it feels safe for me to listens to the information on NPD and BPD. A channel where it's not about good and bad people, but about insight, empathy and understanding personality disorders. About really seeing humans.
Thanks feels good to hear this. -P
5:36 god damn ive never felt so called out before. thanks for the dose of reality.
Keep up that kind of language and one day, there will be a reckoning. The soul is at stake.
@@howlingwaters2741 ?
@@howlingwaters2741 not everyone believes in god you know
@@howlingwaters2741 Matthew 7 :: NIV. "Do not JUDGE, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Again, do not JUDGE. You were not put on earth to make others feel ashamed. Shame is part of the problem, not the solution, not God's plan ;). Think about it babes.
It is so refreshing for me to see content on social media that doesn't demonise people with cluster B personalities. I understand that we humans naturally want to simplify and distinguish ourselves from people who have hurt us and we have difficulty understanding. However, for those of us who have access to a significant amount of quality resources, I think that we have a moral obligation to the rest of our fellow human beings to move away from devaluing cluster B people and reducing them to "monsters," and "demons.". I'm not suggesting that we all have to learn everything we can about every single thing that pops up in life - that's not realistic - but I think we need to at least acknowledge when we lack understanding about a fellow human who is more difficult to get along with instead of "othering" them. I think we need to acknowledge that even humans who we find are "difficult," or exhibit undesirable behaviours are still human and not some other thing that we can easily justify our mistreatment of.
These types of people can trigger discomfort and uncertainity - sometimes even trigger fear - in ourown sense of self. Sometimes these people exhibit a trait that triggers shame in us because we realise on some level that we have that particular trait too. Sometimes, being around these people challenges us to empathise and show compassion when we're still feeling the sting of their actions. Sometimes, we realise that under the "right circumstances," we might have ended up being a narcissist too. It's uncomfortable and unsettling when we rraluse that so much of our personality is determined genetically and environmentally from conception (things none of us had any control over).
Difficult things such as personality disorders sparks curiosity in me about human nature, existence, and I wonder if any of it has inherent meaning.
This is refreshing content and I sincerely hope education like this will help humanity develop more empathy and compassion.
"Trigger discomfort and uncertainty" you say? Do you think maybe that's it? That living with a narcissist just "somehow challenges us to empathize" with them? I honestly don't mean to be rude here but, let me tell you: it is BECAUSE I empathized, that I got married, then had children, then endured hell for two decades, just to not leave my kids alone with her. Only when they were all through school I divorced, but STILL she is not satisfied, she finds endless ways to put sisters and brothers against each other, and against me. I am a pretty decent man, may I say, or just a common guy for the point's sake, and yet two of my kids won't talk to me, as a result of her intrigues. And one of them is ostracized by the others. And the second youngest took his life for Christmas, my hands shake as I write this. So please go find a little bit about the suffering narcissists inflict on others, and then come back with your sparks of curiosity. And yes I was rude, I am sorry, but life is shitty around these people. They deserve a chance, a cure, certainly, but for the most part they DON'T want it.
@francochianale493 Hi, I can see how my comment came across as minimising difficult experiences with narcissists, and I'm sorry my choice of words didn't accurately convey the true intentions behind it. I didn't see your reply as rude - I can see that my comment truggered sonething very painful for you and I am sorry you have had to go through that. Although, my situation has been a very different one to yours (I have a narcisitic parent who is borderline as well - another cluster B personality), I really feel for you and can relate to your experience of having family members turn on you because of the manipulations and selfishness of the narcissist. I've been on the other end of numerous triangulations and have had outright lies told about me that had painful repercussions. It's very painful to have someone you love do these things to you. As a child, I could not help but internalise all of it - I still struggle with the fear, anxieties, anger, mistrust in myself and others, and depressive episodes that typically comes with it. And worse, when I pucked up the courage to tell someone about it, they just could not understand how a parent could be that way and so I was dismissed or had my experience minimised. But that's what I was touching on in my comment: that all humans struggle to acknowledge or validate the experiences of others (victims and perpetrators alike) and that lack of understanding creates problems for all amd keeps the cycles of dysfunction continuing.
I've been in therapy for 7 years now and I am finally better off. And now I can see that it's not their fault that they are the way they are. I can't make them change - and it's best I don't have that kind of power anyway. The ball is in their court and if they choose to hold onto it, then I can choose to walk away from the game or find another way to play tennis. I only have choices over what I do - and with a narcissist, unfortunately that means a lot of the choices I have are crap. But I'll try the best with what I have, and that's good enough for me. I've learned that I can be empathetic without letting them cross my boundaries - and that's where a lot of my sense of empowerment comes from these days. What I won't do anymore, is use my parents' actions and personalities to justify the crappy treatment I have given to them or others. Taking responsibility for my shortcomings does not hinge on them taking responsibility for theirs. I hope that provides helpful context - if not, I tried my best.
I sincerely hope that you are better off. I hope the wounds in your family are healing. It is rough 😔
So much more reflected than most others talking about narcissism on youtube, there are actually only quite few people with true npd, most people who are being labelled narcissists do not fulfill enough criteria to have true npd
I have heard many in the field of psychology put forward the idea that "healthy narcissism" and narcissistic personality disorder are on a sliding scale, but it always seemed to me that it just appeared that way to an observer from the outside.
This is the first time I've seen the point where one might cross over and become the other clearly described in a way that I can make sense of.
Basically narc traits are the trauma that the victim or the person put up to protect their wellbeing and mind in response to what they have been through. In a sense, it is healthy albeit it is not their normal original. This is not on the spectrum of disorder.
The NPD on another hand has a different type of narc and they are on the disorder spectrum of types.
Wow. The greatest explanation of narcissism i have ever heard. I struggle with narcissistic traits for sure but have never been able to relate to the description until this man. Thank you... I'm trying.
@@PanzerChicken69 what the hell is wrong with you?
@@PanzerChicken69 Fragile? Let me tell you something . You have no right to attack a random person you do not know just because they’re brave enough to admit that they may have some issue. I am extremely offended, by your callous, unfounded attack.
It’s you who are fragile. You are a bully, and I quite frankly, YOU are the only god damned narcissist I can see here. Fuck you.
@@PanzerChicken69 very salty and lacking of empathy, similar to that of a narcissist
I hope you're doing well. Consider training your empathy, it has helped me a lot.
@@andrewwabik5125 This person is clearly a narcissist or trolling. For someone to say something like that they would have to be very delusional and in a lot of pain on a daily basis. I feel bad for them. That person cannot be taken seriously
Damn im isolating but im just a depressed underachiever and i dont have a fantasy of super important job/role
Sounds more like a schizoid predisposition.
Not fun if you have it, but a whole lot easier to treat than NPD.
Same I fantasise about having any job period.. like a minimum wage stable job
same lol
Yeomans is the best! Kernberg is also great, but he uses more difficult psychoanalytic jargon, so its not as easy to get into. Yeomans has such a clear way of talking, despite the enormous difficulty of objectrelations theory.
Excellent video again.
I think the turn to a narcissistic cultural structure has much to do with consumerism that treats everything including people as commodities, erodes substantive interpersonal relationships or puts on at odds to maintain them and atomizes every aspects of how we view meeting needs into transactions. Parents not being able to truly be their, if they know how to with their parents having faced much the same constructed hierarchy of overvaluing profit generating actions and devaluing leisure and emotional resource cultivation. Children emotional raise themselves with evidence of little optimal coping strategies being found as they desperately group through the dark for relief from the many small 'T' traumas of life. These experiences with natural meaningfully importance, contorted by unnatural expectations and constraints on interpersonal resources are stripped of their potential for bonding and attunement. Experiences that would otherwise be benign or beneficent in emotionally rich environments, absent of extremely overt destructive conditions, then become at most interactions of objectification. You perform a function, a role, a service, are an outlet, an escape, a hope with little consideration for your true thoughts, feelings and desires in too many "close" relationships. Even asserting your humanness and emotional needs in such circumstances can be seen as a challenge and disruptive to you externally assigned "function" for someone else's benefit that they are loosely and subconsciously convinced you are designated for. Ultimately these ideas more or less are very common and in my experience contribute to a lot of unhealthy coping. It's the mental emotional equivalent of either eating junk food, eating processed and slightly supplemented "health" food or overcoming circumstantial obstacles to eat whole natural foods to live. You can survive consuming all three options and there are multiple variants within the three categories but only under one can you function optimally and get the most out of life. There is a lot of unhealthy "food" to abstractly consume these days.
This is an excellent analysis. Respectfully, perhaps take a look at punctuation, sentence structure and spell check. You have much to offer. Your insight is worth a channel of its own. Truly, respect.
Great comment.
Isolating in their parents basement, this is exactly what my childhood bestfriend has been doing throughout his twenties, he was such an awesome person growing up. But somewhere along his journey I believe he developed NPD, I eventually had to cut ties with him. Every interaction was him talking about being famous and some big shot, but in reality he was doing nothing with his life, no job, no nothing. I feel bad for him and wish there was something I could do, but I can't do anything to help, he needs to help himself. I mentioned therapy but he said that he doesn't need it and he just needs to hangout with successful people.
Chances are he was hurt by other NPD people sounds like an empath turned NPD
@@rockyp32 like parents who put too much pressure and expectation on kids that even when they do above average well, it still isnt enough
@@rockyp32 yea I agree or he may be a borderline with certain other traits. Narcissists rarely isolate. They are always out looking for new supply. Isolation is more of Borderline symptom
@@ST-yc7uj Jesus Christ only way
@@michaelscott-kj3ir the narcissists isolate their victims that’s what happened to me. Jesu is the only way out
NPD, APD and BPD are VERY real.
This is so helpful, clear and soothing that it seems he can calmly describe all these things.
Great point at 0:26 about libidinal feelings being interested into the self but not others by Yeoman here
Wow, the last sentence hit hard, if anyone can relate.
I think his last words were the best. People isolating themselves in their little box and imagining rather than living because the wotld is too difficult to live in
Whoa that ended up being a million times more enlightening than I thought. I've never heard anyone explain how important that isolation component is to upholding their grandiosity but I definitely see that in the people in my life who are the most narcissistic. Makes me sad because my little sister has been living at home for too long ... hope she gets out and gets real sometime soon. I don't know if she has NPD--I really don't think she does. But there's so much NPD/BPD in my family, I think a lot of those habits can definitely rub off on everyone.
I understand that from a single point of view, the one of the individuals trying to find a place in the world, the NPD, so the extreme situation, is a pathological issue for psychiatrists and psychoanalysts. But from a social point of view, a lot of people with just some narcissistic traits, not so severe to be considered NPD, can reach the sphere of the pathological too, even if they are professionally realized and they seem to have a realistic approach to life. They are difficult to stand, difficult to be sincere with. These traits are already there in their twenties, and when we are young we all try to say "Look at me, I'm cool, I'm strong, I'm a rising star!", but today that we are 40s, I find difficult to keep friendship relationships with old pals who show narcissistic traits...
Because... you gave up you have a mediocre life? Or am i n now
I'm middle aged, spent years avoiding people so as not to get triggered into spirals of self-loathing. I totally agree with what he says at the end. I started working in a big workplace 3 years ago. The reality is that we, people, in general, are fundamentally flawed and quite unremarkable. Nothing quite like that realisation to knock the narcissistic traits into shape! Working in a big workplace with working class people I hear all sorts of opinions about all sorts of things. Some I agree with, some I don't. It's actually quite interesting to just listen to people, don't get emotional, just hear their point of view and discuss with upmost respect. Disengage from those who try to dismiss you. As adults we can chose who we invest our time in. The trouble is that until we realise we're unremarkable, like everybody else, we will continue to categorise people as either worthy of our attention or unworthy. Which is a classic narcissistic move! Social media breeds this division, how many times today have you seen something on Facebook and thought "what a fuc*ing idiot"....
Last 5 min was so true. Im 39 and did same and now im all alone cause only family i had(mom and grandma) are dead and here i am with nolife...a prisoner in my own head
Ew
@@YongyoonKim Ew what?
I'm exactly the same, rotting away at home with no life.
With the only difference that I'm actually actively starting up a biz, putting in lots of effort.
I think it's very hard to diagnose yourself with NPD just because one lives in isolation and fantasizes about the future.
@@SuspiriaX oh that is kinda weird
Everyone has a purpose in life. Just you saying that you are a narcissist is a good step. How about this, you know the mistakes you made because of your narcissism, would you like someone younger to live with that as well? Everyone wants to throw a narcissist away and act like they are all serial killers, not true. Your purpose can be helping others who might be in the same situation and may not be aware of it or not aware of the word narcissism. 😄
@@champshannonthecannon5652 I love helping people! It's that people usually start assuming I'm being nice or helping them for alternative motives which 90% of time is untrue. More people take advantage of me the more I isolate. I've been used alot unfortunately
The conclusion of this channel at it's best.... !? !
I'd love more videos like this. There's loads of videos on Narcissistic abuse in relationships, but sometimes you meet some one who has red flags of narcissistic traits; the occasional self-importance, arrogance, selfishness and sensitivity to criticism - but doesn't really tick all the boxes of a full-blown narcissist. It's very confusing because you are led to believe these people are black and white, but it never really added up.
I think it's important to understand the spectrum of these things, for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes, it's good to notice people's flaws and act accordingly, without necessarily dehumanising them (you can avoid them without thinking everyone should shun them and treat them as evil). The problem is, most of what you read leads people to diagnosing people we don't know that well as narcissists which can be as unhelpful as ignoring the red flags.
We must be cognizant that there is a range of narcissism. We all have innate narcissist qualities. It is necessary for self preservation. The majority of us have grown out of the infant narcissism and adapted to social mores'; however we are capable of returning to our narcissist behavior when we become overwhelmed such as in severe depression.
Love, love, love this channel.- always top-notch content and fascinating, thoughtful insights by such an array of clinicians - Frank is excellent.
Brilliant explanation...balanced n clear
Amazing clarity of perception, very helpful.
I think this was the best description of narcissism I’ve ever heard and I’ve spent a fair amount of time looking into this topic. Thank you for posting this, it was very helpful.
Most important content on YT.
Im healing my narcissism with this videos, that is, taking my real self closer to my narcissistic idealized self. It's all or nothing for me, baby.
Check out healNPD channel
You’re already one Step ahead of narcs: they never Except Theyre the problem.
You dont have to have a Narcissistic idealized Self. Thats the whole point. Not taking your real Self to that. Giving up on that Narcissitic idealized self, baby. People may want you to burn in hell when you force that idealized self on them!
@@petekdemirciogluNever is a strong word
Thank you. You seem to have taken over for Kernberg!
Hey I disagree most of these people haven't become anyone because of the fear of rejection in. A Narcissist work environment
The world is difficult that is reality. To deny that means we suffer from delusion or as he says a self narrative to alleviate us from reality aka narcissism. Welcome to the club🤍
I think it was more her response to her situation that he read as narcissistic, not the fact that she was in that situation in the first place.
we’ve emptied our world of meaning.
Believe me, I’ve tried working, but never had a career as such. Not because I was holding out for some unattainable goal, though I do have my fantasies. It’s just that I know the first time something went wrong, or I made a mistake, I’d invariably have a screaming meltdown that got me fired. Not having had a career is a tremendous source of shame for me, and I feel like a parasite for living on disability. But in a way I figure I’m doing prospective employers a favor by not working. They don’t have to deal with me.
I hope you dont mind me saying but i can sort of identify with you too. 😢
I confirm you are a parasite. Go away.
Instead we have to deal with you.
Excellent video ❤️❤️
OH MY GOD!, JUST FOUND YOU.FIRST DR.,COUSELER ETC. THAT I CAN RELATE TOO.thank you Dr. Frank!! just subscribed but want, and need to hear from you.comfort, your way of talking, for me is great. Looking forward to hearing more.
I actually felt many times as a narcissist and a borderline but I never was neither malignant or notoriously self destructive so I couldn't completely identify with those diagnoses until I discovered the covert borderline proposed by Sam Vaknin and it woke me the fuck up.
With distance from abusers (practically most people I ever met) and facing the painfull truth im slowly healing, starting to build my own inner dialogue and thinking, my own voice and silencing abusers voices. And putting the hard work and discipline of course, I always had a sense of agency even if not completely true.
Also very important: some of my "narcissism" is actually internalized voices from abusers is like I know I have narcissistic defenses but also the "awareness" of my own narcissism sometimes is internalized abuse and not actually narcissism... I can pinpoint my own grandiosity (which I know it was implanted by abusers) but its not as big and rigid as in NPD and can actually work with it and make it more realistic objectives and goals. And another big one I have is trying to "control" abusers by idealizing them and rendering them inocuous (which is very destructive for myself of course)
I would suggest by my own experiences that most of the diagnosed as depression, anxiety disorders, even co dependency or borderline come not for who you actually are but for you not being allowed to BE, a root cause: narc abuse or just plain abuse. And when you distance from abusers and work with yourself to kill their voices you start to heal and cure, I dont think labels are any good for victims but a good guide!
That 28 year daughter sounds just like a then 22 year old know it all come in and changed the farm operation to benefit him and he nearly ran it into the ground in 2013. But being a narcissist he felt entitled to call the shots on the farm and pull the wool over my parents eyes. I knew he was a problem and my parents wouldn't listen to me. They thought he was the greatest thing since the invention of sliced bread when he was about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.
He left the farm because he wasn't going to get ownership. He then tries to convince my parents to sell it to him for next to nothing. Just sickening.
Sickening is right. He is sick. Not very smart to enable his illness. That's called codependency. It takes two (if not more) to tango.
@@Sarahizahhsum the bigger problem is that they never thought he was a problem.
That’s terrible 😣
This is brilliant. Thank you so much
really like this guy
I laughed so hard about the studio head comment
that was so right on.
Imagine if she had become President...
I wanna keep watching a lot more of frank yeoman’s videos. he is just so knowledgeable... I wish he creates a TH-cam channel with loads of long videos.
So glad you are enjoying Yeomans. More to come....
@@BorderlinerNotes thanks
'fantasizing about who they MIGHT be' yeah I'm a narcissist and this is an accurate description of my fantasies, I don't have a god complex or think I'm superman or think I'm better than everyone else (I see a lot of people as superior to me), like how a lot of these dumbasses talk about narcissism (which probably doesn't solve the problem), I've just felt like I could be and should be very similar to people who appear to have a lot of control over their survival and basic needs, in regards to how I live, talk and behave.
For example, I've molded myself off of Ant Middleton from the SAS Channel 4 docuseries, when talking to people... why? Because the guy appears to have more control over his survival and basic needs, he might not earn a lot but he's probably capable of surviving a bit of poverty with all his special forces training and living in jungles etc. I've only recently become more aware that people can see what I'm doing and have a rough idea of what I'm thinking and that I'm not being authentic, and as a result, have stopped getting so annoyed when people give me funny distrusting looks and gestures.
I'm trying to keep calm and focussed on the stuff I actually like without it being about being someone who's better at surviving and having mastery over basic needs and that has a lot of charisma and is likeable by a lot of people. My true self appears to be more laid back than that when I try to actually incorporate some structure in my life like most other people do.
@@Sarahizahhsum I hope you both find peace... God knows we need it...
I may have seen this in my mother. Despite me being in daily contact with her, she might’ve sunken into isolation. Her husband died, she was involved in a legal dispute and I think it caused this Sunken Costs Fallacy, which caused her to feel literally abandoned in her quest for success. I’d always been the most supportive child and she’d actually been a pretty self-motivating and independent person. But, once her husband died, it was like the only person I could be to her, was the enemy that wasn’t making things happen. I didn’t even realize it, for quite some time. But, for her, it grew covert narcissism so, the idea that I’d be doing anything like looking for a job, during the recession or working, to support myself or even to be asleep at night, became absolute betrayal and me a target to destroy, because she couldn’t control me. She may have been narcissistically healthy, earlier in life. But it completely soured into covert narcissism, in a very malignant way.
Are their loving” feelings even really love? I don’t think Narcissists even love themselves which is why they have to exaggerate to makeup for what they lack but yeah that ending wooo I have some work to do because that’s exactly me 😔
No you are not an NPD but cute
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye No I am not and never want to be. Thank you 😊
@@sarahk6254 Yes should have listened to my dad. I didn't believe him that PDs sucked.
So much level-headed criticism and not a single shred of compassion for the hell these people are up against.
wat
I went through a stage of being narcissistic . People will just power trip you if you at raging at them. People love to act superior to boost their self esteem. Females will get checked and told off. I have tried to be more polite and confident and have a positive attitude. Give my self positive mantras.
Probably why most borderlines are women, they are never allowed to develop that grandiose self. Because like you said, females will get checked if they try to act grandiose.
what if your parents are the reason for keeping you? from the real world?
Get away as soon as possible
Whole family trees can be involved in this. Especially if families struggle with addictions in combination with personality disorders.
So true, so heartbreaking, the demands of the world is breaking people down.
He knows his stuff...
seems most people suffer from this these days, sitting home on social media.
I would agree but I think most people suffer from just being selfish which is definitely a key aspect of narcissism but narcissism itself is a much more complex disorder and I don’t think it would be wise to generalize it to the majority of people
5:34 - complicated reasons:
#1) emotional and financial indulgence by parents
Identifying issues is great, interesting, and informative, but where are his thoughts on steps to improve or solution based information?
Those who can explain their field in simple words to all humans are little geniuses…😊
This describes me they diagnoses menwith stpd but this applies too
Excellent! Thank you 🙏
I would love to know your take on how harmful, a "Christian Therapist" who is CEO of his counseling group. The same man is a very angry man. He was my therapist for 13 years. The damage done to me is more than I can express.
He always has a few older women he treats more like his girlfriends than clients. His game was to tell you he loved you then say it is not romantic, yet my first few sessions with him he told me he " Felt the sexual tension" when we were alone together.
He’s a perv and a predator for sure, I mean really now ?????
Christian Man problems
Jordan Peterson is one. A coward one.
Please Frank, write a book about NPD
"fantasizing about what they could be, but never really being anything".... Wow. I think anyone who has been spoilt will have to have these realizations. You actually have to put in effort and work to get where you really want to be. Not where others want you to be.
Where do you want us to be, just to make sure I go elsewhere? But thank you for a next life, I will think of this tip.
I want to watch all the hours of footage not posted on here
I agree that our definitions and attitudes of narcissism have to change. These days narcissism is Believe to be a spectrum rather than a condition. It is true we need a certain amount of narcissism, or egoism (not egotism), in order to function and live well in the world, the pathological side then would be NPD. However, perhaps narcissism is not a term we should use for this and it should be separated from normal narcissistic behaviors. Such as we won't let someone cheat us because we value our reputation or integrity, but if we cheat someone to improve our reputation then we are at a point of malignancy, lacking empathy. Normal levels of narcissism then should be considered a good thing, but the term itself has become wholly negative, as has the word retard. So we either adopt a positive connotation of narcissism or reserve it for the malignant disorder. Because malignant narcissism has its own spectrum from the passive-aggressive, covert narcissist to the overt egotistical megalomaniac, it could very stand alone from functional narcissism/egoism.
You agree with disorders ?
@@ThreetwoOne-wu7ye what does that mean ?
Wow that is deep you just described my son
Am I wrong to postulate that some narcissists present as impulsively self absorbed ? . So self involved that no one matters only in the context of what people can do for them .
It is worth noting that a regular a bit self-centered person is not going to enter into a frenzy over someone pointing out some harmless real fact (Hey Jane, you usually do not wake up early do you), will not go on an endless relentless revenge spree against that person over that, and won’t try to chase them into the grave. Because how dared they imply the narcissist was not perfect.
"Who am I?" is a question only the pseudo Narcissist would ask. The collective version of this question remains "Who are we?", which I concluded decades ago was one of the most idiotic questions ever conceived. The pertinent questions, almost converse to these, were always "What am I?" and "What are we?" respectively. Answering the latter lays an intelligent foundation for the former. That is to say, "Who one is" will only make sense once one has a full working comprehension of "What one is".
Less on symptoms and more on solutions.
What solution for a feeling of unrootedness, of not feeling in charge of one's life and even wanting to destroy it, but not knowing why?
What solution for attacking the couple not understanding why? And when understanding why, doesn't manke any difference, because intelectually understanding something doesn't change a damn thing (makes things worse sometimes). How do you deal with trying your best to fit which is exhausting and then feeling like you deserve a break which you impose on your family, which is unfair, but you don't know better. How do you deal with being told by your shrink after 20 years that you should love your husband as he is, which sounds like doing a cartwhel on one finger?
What solutions? I have some ideas but NPD is not a bunch of maladaptive traits .
NPD definitely exists. Just ask anyone who grew up with with a malignant narcissistic parent.
100% exist
So helpful. Tysm
"They’re left sitting in these little islands of isolation" Twas even worse after Covid hit, just after this video.
Found a very good video on a channel called "Resilient Life Therapy". She has a video called The Narcissistic Parent which is very insightful.
Thought you may find it interesting.
Instead of clinging to thoughts and Ego, the cure to this Narcissistic traits is this, surrender to your own true self, surrender to your good intentions and integrity.....
Intelligent vs spirituality, thoughts vs hearts and compassion....
Those old true self inside of you that you left behind, instead of clinging in those negative thoughts and delusions....
Can that barrier ever be broken down to where a person can actually experience love and intimate relationships with others at the same capacity and manner that healthy individuals without narcissism personality disorder do? Does the actual purpose of being able to love in this capacity even of importance if they can obtain a similar purpose/goal by being aware of how their narcissism causes the ability of others not to feel loved? If the same conclusion is met but obtained in a different way does it matter how it arrived to the point? For myself the entire process of Love and empathy is what keeps myself able to maintain a healthy relationship and feeling of love! Who is to say what is correct and what is not? Sorry if I am not explaining my question completely. I'm still struggling with the words because I have not yet been able to completely digest my ideas, thoughts on this topic at this point. Possibly my question is can someone who has narcissistic personality disorder be capable of feeling empathy for another person and for all the people that they come into contact with? A empathy test was given to an individual with this condition and scored relatively high on having empathy. What I have noticed is when this person feels attacked, their reality has been threatened or they have experienced an injury from another person they no longer feel any empathy for the individual! If this happens simultaneously more than one person has broken any of these defense barriers they seem to go on attack with everyone they come in contact with and in a result destroying their own lives and the people who are in them by the choices they make, it seems to trigger their impulsive excessiveness as well.. everything becomes all or nothing, black and white. This seems to cause their lives to be stuck in a perpetual circle never being able to get out, grow learn or move forward for their lives to evolve. At the same time I noticed that there is one person who they seem to always have empathy for and I don't believe it isn't only because they see this person as an extension of their self!
No.
Too long NPD is a child looking for a parent.
It's a little confusing to say a narcissist has loving feelings toward himself.
It's more like adoration to build themselves up because they feel so worthless.
@@freshlondon2283 Sure whatever victims know
Wow. Yup. Thank you!
Thanks. This helps me.
But why?
I soooo what Ed him to unpack it!
Fantastic channel... thanks!
The way this man is explaining makes it seem like people with NPD are not as harmful as they are. Inflated sense of self, a tool, is a problem but isn't what makes someone with NPD scary. They purposely ruin you life to inflate themselves is. Taking time to focus on self, even away from others and seeing your own problems because you notice trends and want to fix them is normal. Not spending time to look at yourself is a problem.
Marnie Grohs not really. Think about it. He is explaining in a normal and calm/educated manner. Just search narcissism and all the articles are attack attack like yours. If that’s the case then what? Kill all of them. At least he is calmly trying to help people understand and state that hey maybe we can help some of these people.
@@champshannonthecannon5652 I'd like some help. That'd be great. But it's to the chopping block for this old narcissist apparently. They won't even diagnose me correctly. I still hold the borderline label lol. Weird sh*t trauma does. But we don't really need help. We need to collapse in a safe environment and then accept the ego death that's happened. It's actually called enlightenment and it's part of Buddhism. Interesting how this works.
Wanting to fix us is normal, but being resentful for not getting your efforts paid in return is wrong.
Why are therapists reluctant to diagnose narcism disorder?
Not spending time to look at yourself is also a problem.
Thoughts and Ego never accept reality as it is, it always find flaws in everything, blame everything, criticize and hate every thing....
While our own heart, our own true self much more forgiving and accepting on people flaws and imperfections.....
That's why all those new age Guru's tell us to not clinging to our own thoughts, cause those thoughts is full of lie, full of imagined worst scenario, of catastrophy or past trauma....
I have a question, if you're isolating away from the narcissist and stuck because you're dealing with narcissists does that make you are narcissist too? But, you're not isolating from all people just the narcissist.
No that’s self protection and getting out of the cognitive dissonance in you narcs create.
The body never lies… body language is the dogs balls..
I adopted a cat today and someone else her sister . The place she chose around the house is right next to a mirror. Wouldn't even look at me and turned her head towards the mirror each time. Now after a few hours and interaction she's already moving around the house, getting curious and so on. So someone needs to (for real reason and not superficiality) take the NPD away from the "one in the mirror".
Reads like poetry
Hi doc, I know some of this can cause compound anxiety on a normal person. But to somebody who’s healthy and knows it because they live it, wouldn’t it be extra sickening. These grandiose narratives and toxic abuse?
But she isn't hurting anyone for meditating and it's one of the better things you do?
I need a more complex answer than that this is to simple, but definetly a spectrum.
She was living for free in an apartment her dad pays for, not working. Pay attention.
But narcissists hate themselves. Loving their self is fake. If you have trully love for yourself you truly love others also
Have you asked them/us?
Thats Exactly what I think
not sure about this...the artistic endeavor must ALWAYS have a narcissistic element...it challenges how the rest of society sees the world..Van Gogh...Dali.. Picasso...is that..pathological ?
If it hurts others, likely. I think there is an element of healthy narcissism that artists can have. In fact, many of my friends are narcissistic and artists. But, they also possess empathy for others, which a person with npd lacks.
I agree if any kind of uniqueness will be called narcissism so the term will be misleading and a fireback sword! Self narrative is needed to build oneself in many cases. If you didn't believe in yourself no one would ever believe in you. It's an inside out work. Pathalogical narcissism is a real different thing. The self narrated stories are all lying and they mainly know it's lies they are aware of the pattern they get themselves into just to avoid facing the truth of the trauma that made them who they are today. The fine string between what's called healthy narcissism and I call it self esteem or one's belief is that these group of people are authentic empaths and hold no grudges or envy to no one. They don't want to harm or hurt anyone to achieve themselves and reach success. On the other hand real narcissists are all about harming, grudges and envying everyone cause they just can't face their limited barriers of fear and self doubt to flourish. Narcissism doesn't have to be divided into healthy and unhealthy traits to not lose its definition more than it's already being a dilemma to many people and phycologists!
The difference is that those artists worked and worked and worked at what they did. They didn't just sit there running stories in their heads about being a famous artist. Yes, there's a single-mindedness to what they did and how they developed, and probably some pretty potent narcissism and general inner mess. But they rolled their sleeves up and worked.
This seems really ignorant to the systemic reality that the world is now falling apart and opportunities are exceedingly limited for young people. I think he's right about this example, but be careful about stigmatizing young people for not leaving their parents' basement when they can't get a job that pays enough to even pay rent let alone buy a house.
There’s one thing the system is failing, another if one is brave enough to even try and not just fantasize
Or stupid enough to waste your energy into something obviously rotten
Not because they can’t but because they don’t have to. 😊
if they isolated how they get fuel?
damnnnnnnnnn... this dude Michael Jordan #23 of this game
A narcisisst lacks awareness of many things that are self evident for the majority of people? I think that is why they are so boring to listen to. One never have a conversation with an adult with NPD it is all about listening. They are the best and everybody else are less.
Are you sure that would be an NPD? We are not really coming across as haughty and arrogant. Some can of course, but we would be entertaining usually. Not Megan Markle type. Tell me.
There are npd having people who I genuinely like. They are upfront with me about it and I make sure to tell them I like them. I make sure to compliment them for things. This is my friend. His self doubt is hurting him. That self doubt monster is beating him up and I am going to protect my friend as much as I can when I am around. That monster hasn't died yet. It keeps getting up and going but I swear someone will get it done someday.
Not every narcissist is Donald Trump or my mother.
I was recently diagnosed with NPD
What do you think about it?
A lot of men have those. It’s so sad, especially for the people that have to be involved with them. What are you going to do?