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Thank you thank you thank you! We had a person change our AC fan. But later in the day when we turned on our AC, the compresser would not turn on. I could hear it try, but just would not go. I looked at the relay switch and hard start connect to the capacitor and it was not making any sense to me. After watching your video I learned the hard start and capacitor was not wired correctly after replacing the fan. After watching your video, I changed the wiring (both c wires were going into the hard start, while the condenser wire was only plugged into the relay - which makes sense why the switch was turning on, but the capacitor was not getting power to turn the compressor on). YOU SAVE OUR EVENING AND THE TEMP IN OUT HOME IS WELL ON IT WAY DOWN. Thank you so much!!!
I had one 5-2-1 that worked Initially. Then the compressor was trying to start on and off and the capacitor was overheating when I removed it everything was fine. The capacitor 40 / 5 was also replaced and tested good.
I had a compressor the other day with a bad relay which had an open coil. I told the customer first thing he could do is just shut the system down, leave the evap fans on if he wants but shut the compressor off until I arrive. Amazingly the compressor survived. I thought for sure it was toast. The internal overload saved him some big money. That's a bad situation closed contacts with any of the starting relays.
Great, clear explanations - very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. I know Start performance improvement with a 5-2-1 Hard Start Capacitor Kit is not as great on SCROLL compressors, compared to RECIPROCAL types (many Y.T. vids show reductions of Inrush Amps by as much as 45% after installing a 5-2-1 Kit - I assume these are on Reciprocal compressor units). At best, I've seen only about a 9% reduction in Inrush Amps on my Rheem 5-Ton Scroll Compressor aftter the 5-2-1 Kit was installed. Is this a normal "improvement" to see when matching the 5-2-1 Hard Start kit (biggest capacitor) to a Scroll compressor, or should I be seeing lower Inrush results than this? Install Story/DETAILS, for anyone interested: So, I just installed a CPS 5-2-1 CSRU3 Hard Start KIT in my 7YR old Rheem 5-ton SCROLL compressor/condenser unit, ( was running fine), but was slightly slower, buzzier, and metered with INRUSH Amps a bit above the specification on start-ups, recently. L.R.A. specification for this 5-Ton split unit is: 152.9 Amps. BEFORE 5-2-1 Install... Compressor "C" wire Metered INRUSH = 157.2 Amps. AFTER 5-2-1 Install... Compressor "C" wire Metered INRUSH = 156.1 Amps. Metered several "call for cooling" startups @ 150-155Amps INRUSH, AFTER Install: Best score was 147Amps INRUSH, with most starts hitting 152-155Amps. Disappointed (thinking the 5-2-1 kit was a dud), I metered INRUSH again, a day later, on a few more start-ups - I found that my INRUSH was averaging between 142-146 Amps and the compressor has a more positive start, no buzzy wind-up; lighting in home doesn't dim during start, as before. All wiring terminals checked & re-verified, good. (Same weather, thermostat settings, no other system changes since install day). Odd - I'm unsure why unit seemed to perform better the following day. Thanks for reading!
Very helpful!! 3 ptacs in my home, got rid our our ducting, best thing we ever did (put sleeves in the three main areas of our home), our master bedroom ptac went out 2 days ago, august 103 degrees S. georgia. just took the capacitor out of another bedroom ptac and ours is fixed now. I switched them. btw the other bedroom ptac now does the same thing, so it was the cap. Wife very happy, we'll see tonight! So here[s what it was doing.. on high or low cool, about every minute or so, there was a slight buzz for about 5 seconds, then stops till another minute rolls around, compressor was very hot to the touch, really hot. the fan always ran as normal just no ac. so the cap fixed it. and the compressor was fine all along and we're happy now. cleaned the whole thing too ge digital ptac. thanks for your video.
Thanks a lot Rookie! You will have to change the name soon, especially if you are continuing to search out lingering questions. Thats what will put you over other techs, thanks!
@@acservicetechchannel lol. Thanks. I'm actually thinking what I will rename the channel to once I go over a year in refrigeration. That's like 6 months away..
Hey Aliso, the two wire is a ptc, positive coefficient thermister that increases in resistance as amperage goes through it which cuts out the start cap. I would like to at some point, thanks!
i replaced 2 capacitors and one relay this whit relay is the only one left to try before i need to call someone. fan runs but air is not cold from the vent , unit is 5 years old tramxr15. nice vid thank you.
My AC also has a drip pan in the attic which has a sensor that shuts off the compressor when it gets clogged and fills with water. If yours is configured like mine you might want to check your drip pan.
Is this why OEMs build new condensers without start kit ? So that they don't have to warranty burnt out compressors due to defective relays not lasting past warranty? I thought mechanical relays were bullet proof until you mentioned the possibility of contacts welding itself shut or problems with windings. Scary stuff ! I'm going to remove my rectorseal 2 wire TO5 start kit from my condensing unit tomorrow. Reason why I put it on was because my lights were dimming for a second each time my compressor starts up. As always, your videos are very informative. Thank you!
Great instructional video! I’m watching because I’m trying to figure out if my potential relay is bad. I came home to an air conditioning compressor that was practically red hot, unit not cooling. Compressor shut down on thermal overload. The start capacitor was in bad shape, so I replaced it. Now the compressor will start but the current goes up to 95 amps and stays there for about 5 seconds, then trips the circuit breaker. So a bad coil or stuck contacts in the potential relay could cause this problem? What voltage can I put on the coil to test it to make sure it opens the contacts? Thanks!
2 years late but did the compressor end up being replaced? Sounds like its drawing locked rotor amps. I dont think the relay could cause this but I just got out of school so IDK for sure. I wouldve checked to see if ur contactor was sticking closed, that could be a possible cause of a locked compressor.
Are you in favor of using this type of device overall or only under warranted circumstances? Are you a fan of the popular521 or are you in the camp of manufacturer hard start only?
Excellent video.....At 3:50 of this video, as you told when the bracket is pulled back, there should be "no resistance". But when the contacts are not joined together than there should be "some" resistance? Kindly correct me please. Thanks for your excellent work.
@@acservicetechchannel what is my comment doing here ?! Lol it was from another video I think. I must have been writing, the video I was watching ended and it passed on to this one and I posted the comment thinking it would go to where I thought I began to write it.
Is it common for the relay to melt? Our A/C stopped working, and found the relay melted/blown....just trying to figure out if the problem was the relay or if there is a bigger issue and the next relay is going to practically explode. Thanks!
Great info... 1) can you explain why there is a resistor between the poles on the start capacitor (what's its function/ what it protects). I just put a start capacitor on my old Carrier 38XD-130-300 but the cap didn't have the resistor between the 2 connections (like in this video) and it promptly blew up. Now I wonder if the start potential relay is failed or the cap with no resistor was the reason for failure.
I've been having issues with my compressor not 5 on and tested the coil in the relay, reads OL. Also tested start capacitor which checks out. Inexplicably I put everything back together and air conditioner started working. Is it possible to have intermittent issues with the potential relay? If so I will replace it but don't want to replace a perfectly good part even though it did test bad.
Here because I turned a capacitor on a unit to see the MFD rating and a wire was loose on top of the capacitor. That wire came off 2 on the relay and boom. Relay chattered and kept sparking. Gonna replace tomorrow.
Yes usually the 5 is up and the relay will usually say this side up. This is a potential relay. I did another video on the current starting relay, thanks
What are the symptoms of a failed or failing relay please? I have a vacuum pump that is hard to start when cold. Trips the overload switch after a few seconds of slow turning so I have to switch it off and on until it gets up to speed. Funny thing is once it’s run up once it then turns on fine but if I block the inlet it on the pump it won’t start again (adding load I guess). I have replaced the start and run capacitors but it’s made no difference so was wondering if it could be the relay? Any help would be appreciated!
My system died on me after a lightning strike very nearby, The thermostat works and the main relay in the outdoor unit gets pulled in. The fan runs. I checked the dual run capacitor and the capacitance was fine. I can't check my start capacitor because my meter only reads up to 100 uF and it is 189-272. . I checked start the relay (coil, contacts all looks good) and even opened it up. I watched it on power up. It pulls in the contacts on power up but never opens back up. I get no sign the compressor runs. No evidence of refrigerant being moved and no increase in am I have a new starting capacitor coming tomorrow and meter that can read up to 400 uF so I can check my starting cap (and others in the future). Would a bad start cap cause these observations? I worry the cap is not bad and its something worse. The lightning strike killed a GFI, a router power supply, internet, tripped a arc fault breaker, and now I hear the microwave is dead. Ughhh!
Ok old man needs some help please.... York 2.5 heat pump. No cooling..start cap was blown.replaced start cap blew again.relay welded. Replace relay 1 2 5 ..replaced cap with new same cap. Turn unit on....fan out side and inside run compressor not coming on. I have in the past replaced the cap then all was fine but not this time. Help Please Note. I opened the relay and the points were open so I bent it so it would stay closed so as not to have an open circuit. I have ordered another will be here tomorrow. No click as to power up for the compressor to start. Relay may have need faulty...I will ohm out compressor tomorrow after installing newer relay.
AC Service Tech LLC Wow 😮, you’re putting a book together ? Man you’re talented alright ! Ever since you said that that carrier furnace can be installed in a down flow application and I’ve been happy and configured one for such application ! Next will be doing the gas pipe to the whole house and having the furnace installed and fired up. I hot tried it while it was in it’s down flow upside down configuration and it worked no problem after redoing the drain for such application
This is only needed when supplied by the manufacturer of the unit or the compressor is really having a hard time starting with correct voltage and good capacitor. Otherwise, it is not needed, thanks!
So if i go to a ac unit that has a burn out compressor i should also check this relay or if i didnt it could burn out the new compressor? Shouldnt there be something to protect the compressor burn out because of this relay not release or (stuck)?
Yes you should check the relay but I would replace it along with the run cap and contactor for sure if you go to the extent of replacing the compressor. That needs to be built into the price of the job so that the contractor is safe, thanks dang0088 da and thanks Throttle Bottle!
some of the 'instructors' are terrible. what would be easier that drawing a simple schematic and writing the colors of the wires rather than following the wires?
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Thank you thank you thank you! We had a person change our AC fan. But later in the day when we turned on our AC, the compresser would not turn on. I could hear it try, but just would not go. I looked at the relay switch and hard start connect to the capacitor and it was not making any sense to me. After watching your video I learned the hard start and capacitor was not wired correctly after replacing the fan. After watching your video, I changed the wiring (both c wires were going into the hard start, while the condenser wire was only plugged into the relay - which makes sense why the switch was turning on, but the capacitor was not getting power to turn the compressor on). YOU SAVE OUR EVENING AND THE TEMP IN OUT HOME IS WELL ON IT WAY DOWN. Thank you so much!!!
I had one 5-2-1 that worked Initially. Then the compressor was trying to start on and off and the capacitor was overheating when I removed it everything was fine. The capacitor 40 / 5 was also replaced and tested good.
Should the relay and start Cap be replaced before they fail as a maintenance procedure ?
I had a compressor the other day with a bad relay which had an open coil. I told the customer first thing he could do is just shut the system down, leave the evap fans on if he wants but shut the compressor off until I arrive. Amazingly the compressor survived. I thought for sure it was toast. The internal overload saved him some big money. That's a bad situation closed contacts with any of the starting relays.
I’m glad that you brought this episode👍🏽
Thanks a lot Edgar!
Nice little refresher video Acservicetech. Thanks.
Thanks Nick!
Great, clear explanations - very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge.
I know Start performance improvement with a 5-2-1 Hard Start Capacitor Kit is not as great on SCROLL compressors, compared to RECIPROCAL types (many Y.T. vids show reductions of Inrush Amps by as much as 45% after installing a 5-2-1 Kit - I assume these are on Reciprocal compressor units).
At best, I've seen only about a 9% reduction in Inrush Amps on my Rheem 5-Ton Scroll Compressor aftter the 5-2-1 Kit was installed.
Is this a normal "improvement" to see when matching the 5-2-1 Hard Start kit (biggest capacitor) to a Scroll compressor, or should I be seeing lower Inrush results than this?
Install Story/DETAILS, for anyone interested:
So, I just installed a CPS 5-2-1 CSRU3 Hard Start KIT in my 7YR old Rheem 5-ton SCROLL compressor/condenser unit, ( was running fine), but was slightly slower, buzzier, and metered with INRUSH Amps a bit above the specification on start-ups, recently.
L.R.A. specification for this 5-Ton split unit is: 152.9 Amps.
BEFORE 5-2-1 Install... Compressor "C" wire Metered INRUSH = 157.2 Amps.
AFTER 5-2-1 Install... Compressor "C" wire Metered INRUSH = 156.1 Amps.
Metered several "call for cooling" startups @ 150-155Amps INRUSH, AFTER Install: Best score was 147Amps INRUSH, with most starts hitting 152-155Amps.
Disappointed (thinking the 5-2-1 kit was a dud), I metered INRUSH again, a day later, on a few more start-ups - I found that my INRUSH was averaging between 142-146 Amps and the compressor has a more positive start, no buzzy wind-up; lighting in home doesn't dim during start, as before. All wiring terminals checked & re-verified, good.
(Same weather, thermostat settings, no other system changes since install day).
Odd - I'm unsure why unit seemed to perform better the following day.
Thanks for reading!
Very helpful!! 3 ptacs in my home, got rid our our ducting, best thing we ever did (put sleeves in the three main areas of our home), our master bedroom ptac went out 2 days ago, august 103 degrees S. georgia. just took the capacitor out of another bedroom ptac and ours is fixed now. I switched them. btw the other bedroom ptac now does the same thing, so it was the cap. Wife very happy, we'll see tonight! So here[s what it was doing.. on high or low cool, about every minute or so, there was a slight buzz for about 5 seconds, then stops till another minute rolls around, compressor was very hot to the touch, really hot. the fan always ran as normal just no ac. so the cap fixed it. and the compressor was fine all along and we're happy now. cleaned the whole thing too ge digital ptac. thanks for your video.
Got it! Great video. Everything cleared up at "pick up voltage".
Thanks MP!
Great video. It actually answered a few lingering questions
Thanks a lot Rookie! You will have to change the name soon, especially if you are continuing to search out lingering questions. Thats what will put you over other techs, thanks!
@@acservicetechchannel lol. Thanks. I'm actually thinking what I will rename the channel to once I go over a year in refrigeration. That's like 6 months away..
Got ya, nice!
I had a problem similar with this I forgot you have a video on everything
Thank you
Glad it helped
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Would you do a video on your views and experience using 3wire hardstart kit and the 2wire? As always, thanks for your excellent hvacr teaches.
Hey Aliso, the two wire is a ptc, positive coefficient thermister that increases in resistance as amperage goes through it which cuts out the start cap. I would like to at some point, thanks!
Saved me on a service call thanks mate
Glad it was helpful
Great job on this one to. But then again you always do a great job. I have learned a ton from you, thinks for all the lessons.
Thanks a lot Drifter!
i replaced 2 capacitors and one relay this whit relay is the only one left to try before i need to call someone. fan runs but air is not cold from the vent , unit is 5 years old tramxr15. nice vid thank you.
My AC also has a drip pan in the attic which has a sensor that shuts off the compressor when it gets clogged and fills with water. If yours is configured like mine you might want to check your drip pan.
Very good video..thanks
Is this why OEMs build new condensers without start kit ? So that they don't have to warranty burnt out compressors due to defective relays not lasting past warranty?
I thought mechanical relays were bullet proof until you mentioned the possibility of contacts welding itself shut or problems with windings. Scary stuff ! I'm going to remove my rectorseal 2 wire TO5 start kit from my condensing unit tomorrow. Reason why I put it on was because my lights were dimming for a second each time my compressor starts up.
As always, your videos are very informative. Thank you!
Anything is possible with relays, any relay can burn or pit over time, thanks
@@acservicetechchannel I'd learned a lot from you channel. Thank you so much!
@@garyomglol Glad to help Gary!
got a trane xr 16 OEM start relay burn to ash this week lol
Great instructional video! I’m watching because I’m trying to figure out if my potential relay is bad. I came home to an air conditioning compressor that was practically red hot, unit not cooling. Compressor shut down on thermal overload. The start capacitor was in bad shape, so I replaced it. Now the compressor will start but the current goes up to 95 amps and stays there for about 5 seconds, then trips the circuit breaker. So a bad coil or stuck contacts in the potential relay could cause this problem? What voltage can I put on the coil to test it to make sure it opens the contacts? Thanks!
2 years late but did the compressor end up being replaced? Sounds like its drawing locked rotor amps. I dont think the relay could cause this but I just got out of school so IDK for sure. I wouldve checked to see if ur contactor was sticking closed, that could be a possible cause of a locked compressor.
Thank you sir for sharing your expertise. Much appreciated👍
Glad to help Achilles!
Are you in favor of using this type of device overall or only under warranted circumstances?
Are you a fan of the popular521 or are you in the camp of manufacturer hard start only?
How would you test that start capacitor with the resister on it. Do you have to remove the resistor then check it
Yes and then add a bleed resistor back on with spade clips, or you could solder it back on it desired.
Does the coil always stay energized and just the contacts open up?
OL stands for open lead and 0.0 stand for infinity which means you have a circuit!
Over Limit
thanks for the video
Glad to help Drew!
If start capacitor and run capacitor are good, but the compressor still quickly starts and stops, does it mean the potential relay is bad? Thanks.
Good video, thank you.
Thanks 404 Refrigeration!
Can you do a video on how to wire the potential relay. Using the phrase 521 can she run.
Ha ha, nice!
Excellent video.....At 3:50 of this video, as you told when the bracket is pulled back, there should be "no resistance". But when the contacts are not joined together than there should be "some" resistance? Kindly correct me please.
Thanks for your excellent work.
Got it. Thank you
Thanks Alex!
Great explanation. 👍
Thanks Mr Ice!
Good video
U surely did a good job advertising that turbo cap! "I got nothing for saying that 😂 " sure? U did say that with sarcasm
I have no relation with a hard start cap company at this point, thanks
@@acservicetechchannel what is my comment doing here ?! Lol it was from another video I think. I must have been writing, the video I was watching ended and it passed on to this one and I posted the comment thinking it would go to where I thought I began to write it.
Comment was supposed to be here :
th-cam.com/video/KY4OqoU_ndE/w-d-xo.html
😂
Real good.
Glad you warned folks what happens IF the potential relay fails. Maybe Bye-Bye Compressor??? Ok to use as a last resort IMO.
Is it common for the relay to melt? Our A/C stopped working, and found the relay melted/blown....just trying to figure out if the problem was the relay or if there is a bigger issue and the next relay is going to practically explode. Thanks!
To test the kick start just take a mF reading?
Great info... 1) can you explain why there is a resistor between the poles on the start capacitor (what's its function/ what it protects). I just put a start capacitor on my old Carrier 38XD-130-300 but the cap didn't have the resistor between the 2 connections (like in this video) and it promptly blew up. Now I wonder if the start potential relay is failed or the cap with no resistor was the reason for failure.
The resistor is for discharging the high capacitance capacitor so that it won't shock you if you accidentally touch the contact.
how about continuity between 5 and 2? am I suppose to have continuity is is good?
I've been having issues with my compressor not 5 on and tested the coil in the relay, reads OL. Also tested start capacitor which checks out. Inexplicably I put everything back together and air conditioner started working. Is it possible to have intermittent issues with the potential relay? If so I will replace it but don't want to replace a perfectly good part even though it did test bad.
Here because I turned a capacitor on a unit to see the MFD rating and a wire was loose on top of the capacitor. That wire came off 2 on the relay and boom. Relay chattered and kept sparking. Gonna replace tomorrow.
So, do those potential (voltage) relays have a correct orientation ("up" direction) that they should be installed in?
Thanks
also, i think the relay in the video is a current relay, not a potential relay. I think voltage relays have 4 connectors
Yes usually the 5 is up and the relay will usually say this side up. This is a potential relay. I did another video on the current starting relay, thanks
What does it mean when the coil reads infinity?
What are the symptoms of a failed or failing relay please? I have a vacuum pump that is hard to start when cold. Trips the overload switch after a few seconds of slow turning so I have to switch it off and on until it gets up to speed. Funny thing is once it’s run up once it then turns on fine but if I block the inlet it on the pump it won’t start again (adding load I guess). I have replaced the start and run capacitors but it’s made no difference so was wondering if it could be the relay? Any help would be appreciated!
Awesome
My system died on me after a lightning strike very nearby, The thermostat works and the main relay in the outdoor unit gets pulled in. The fan runs. I checked the dual run capacitor and the capacitance was fine. I can't check my start capacitor because my meter only reads up to 100 uF and it is 189-272. . I checked start the relay (coil, contacts all looks good) and even opened it up. I watched it on power up. It pulls in the contacts on power up but never opens back up. I get no sign the compressor runs. No evidence of refrigerant being moved and no increase in am I have a new starting capacitor coming tomorrow and meter that can read up to 400 uF so I can check my starting cap (and others in the future). Would a bad start cap cause these observations? I worry the cap is not bad and its something worse. The lightning strike killed a GFI, a router power supply, internet, tripped a arc fault breaker, and now I hear the microwave is dead. Ughhh!
South Korea Hvac 기능공입니다~
놀러오세요^^응원해쥐세요~
Ok old man needs some help please....
York 2.5 heat pump. No cooling..start cap was blown.replaced start cap blew again.relay welded. Replace relay 1 2 5 ..replaced cap with new same cap. Turn unit on....fan out side and inside run compressor not coming on. I have in the past replaced the cap then all was fine but not this time. Help Please
Note. I opened the relay and the points were open so I bent it so it would stay closed so as not to have an open circuit. I have ordered another will be here tomorrow. No click as to power up for the compressor to start. Relay may have need faulty...I will ohm out compressor tomorrow after installing newer relay.
AC Service Tech LLC, if you have a potential relay do you need a PTC assist on your compressor, or one or the other?
One or the other, thanks
Potatshionl rely enizing vsytom using circiut slft potacting systom ..
maybe do a video on a current relay some time, thanks ...
Thanks, yes at some point I would like to do a video on a current relay and also the ptc, thanks
Is the coil 240v on the relay?
It is around 300v for pick up voltage and is generated due to the back emf from the compressor motor, thanks A VM!
How have you been Craig ?
Hey Tom, very good, time flies but I am pushing forward putting a book together on refrigerant handling and doing more videos, thanks and how are you?
AC Service Tech LLC Wow 😮, you’re putting a book together ? Man you’re talented alright ! Ever since you said that that carrier furnace can be installed in a down flow application and I’ve been happy and configured one for such application ! Next will be doing the gas pipe to the whole house and having the furnace installed and fired up.
I hot tried it while it was in it’s down flow upside down configuration and it worked no problem after redoing the drain for such application
Got ya, nice, glad to help Tom!
I have a cap and a compressor -I don't have this setup on my system, is it better?
This is only needed when supplied by the manufacturer of the unit or the compressor is really having a hard time starting with correct voltage and good capacitor. Otherwise, it is not needed, thanks!
I don’t read 0.0 between 1 and 2
👍👍
wiring cabls please my best friend..cause my english isn't fluent..im from indonesia
So if i go to a ac unit that has a burn out compressor i should also check this relay or if i didnt it could burn out the new compressor? Shouldnt there be something to protect the compressor burn out because of this relay not release or (stuck)?
new compressor = automatic NEW contactor, start relay and all capacitors. well unless you want to do the job twice and look stupid ;)
lot of guy dont change that other stuff out tho. @@throttlebottle5906
Yes you should check the relay but I would replace it along with the run cap and contactor for sure if you go to the extent of replacing the compressor. That needs to be built into the price of the job so that the contractor is safe, thanks dang0088 da and thanks Throttle Bottle!
all start components should be replaced if u are going to replace compressor. no need to check. check contactor tho.
some of the 'instructors' are terrible. what would be easier that drawing a simple schematic and writing the colors of the wires rather than following the wires?