White Balance vs Color Checker: Ask David Bergman
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 เม.ย. 2020
- Today's question: “Isn’t a custom white balance sufficient enough to reproduce accurate colors? If so, then why would I need to use a color chart like the ColorChecker Passport?
Go to www.AskDavidBergman.com to submit your own photo question, see David's gear list, and view the episode archive. Attend David's live concert photography workshops at www.ShootFromThePit.com
Products Used:
X-Rite ColorChecker Passport Photo 2 with Balance Target www.adorama.com/ghccppb.html?...
Production Equipment Used:
Canon EOS R Mirrorless Full Frame Digital Camera Body www.adorama.com/car.html?kbid...
Canon Control Ring Mount Adapter EF-EOS R www.adorama.com/carcrma.html?...
Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM Zoom Lens www.adorama.com/ca2470.html?k...
Rode Microphones RODELink Digital Wireless System www.adorama.com/rdrodelfmk.ht...
CLAR S30 Focusing LED Light 3-Light Kit www.adorama.com/cllcls30d.htm...
Manfrotto MT055XPRO3 Black Aluminum Tripod with MVH502AH Pro Video Head
www.adorama.com/bg055xprob52....
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#whitebalance #colorchecker #lightingtips - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
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Wow! The difference between the original image and the corrected one is astonishing! Thank you so much for this video!
The best-ever explanation of the difference between white balance and a color checker and how to use them. Thank you.
David Bergman is a true expert. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for showing us the difference. I never even thought of using a CC Passport but now I need to give it a shot.
You're amazing David! Thanks a lot for the wonderful tutorial! God bless you!
Amazing, much-needed tutorial. Thanks a lot
I finally understand it. Thanks. Be well and stay safe.
Thank you very much indeed, you explained it beautifully.
Thanks again, Wishing you all the best .
There's three things that you get out of using a calibrated color checker 6:09 .
1. You get a reference for neutral grey that allows you to set your white balance to the exact right level.
2. You get a reference for exposure via the black to white boxes which allows you to balance exposure if you have over or underexposed your shot.
3. You get a reference for color that allows you to see if your colors are off then allows you to calibrate your editing program with correct color.
The one thing that this color checker card doesn't give you is an exact numerical value for color temperature. That is when you would have to use a spectrometer.
In reality there are two ways of shooting. The traditional being using a color card and the digital way via not using any color cards and doing your best to estimate colors using various scopes / waveforms.
The traditional way gives you a perfect image vs the digital way which is always just slightly off if you are aiming for a perfectly neutral real to life image.
Very helpful! Thank you, David 🙏
So grateful for the upload 🙏🏻❤️
Terrific explanation, David. Very helpful. Thank you...and Adorama.
Thank you for this explanation and showing the difference.
Thanks, David!
So the answer to the original question is that white balance will shift the entire color pallet along the scale of warm vs cool. In real life, each color is off to different degrees depending on the lighting and your equipment. A color checker allows you to sample known versions of key colors and use them to adjust over the full pallet of colors.
It is not perfect, and you will notice the rendition of color even changes within the same room, but color checkers make it better.
Love your videos - always a lot of information in a short period of time
Great vibe! Very motivating. Thanks, David!
good explanation David!
Great tutorial, very informative. I take it this wouldn't be used to much in street or run and gun photography but definitely see the benefits in portrait or product photography.
Well, all you need is one shot of the checker.
Good question & Good Elaborated Answer.... Thanks David Bergman 😍 & Tommy too....
Excellent tutorial, very clear.
Excellent explanation. Thank you
Thanks for the info.
Fantastic video! Doing Senior portraits this fall, this refresher is exactly what I needed thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the info! I have had a passport for years and rarely ever use it. But it makes a lot more sense for certain photographers and situations.
I don't use it too often for my style of work, but it's always in my bag and I'm so glad I have it when needed! It's actually really good for portraits to get skin tones just right.
@@DavidBergmanPhoto For sure. I use it if the lighting conditions are way too crazy. Otherwise, I'm using color adjustments for skin tones and making the surroundings look nice, all on a calibrated monitor.
Nice one. Thanks for this.
Fantastic video, thank you!
Thank you.
Excellent explanation as always! Thank You 👍🤗
I use the X-Rite ColorChecker in combination with my EOS R5 - often in woodlands, because especially the fall Colors can trick the WB of the R5.
I do have a Strange problem: After making and applying the custom color profile and correcting WB according to the ColorChecker, I most often end up with a much too warm (maybe redish) picture, and I don't get it, because I photograph the ColorChecker exact at the same spot and time, as I do my subject. Do you have any suggestions, why I can end up with this disappointing result? Any advices are more than welcome!
Kind Regards from Jan, Denmark
3:40: Misinfirmation, this is not a 18% grey card, but a color neutral greycard. 18% card is not color neutral and not used for whitebalance but for exposure.
Thank you Amigo you are so smart you are a brilliant mind thank you for being here with us to help us the video was a little complicated but I will play it again and again and again until I get it because English it's not my first language not to mention computers are different language
Best of luck! Once you figure it out, it's not that complicated.
Good vid. I use 1, it works.
would it be or is it a good idea to make a new color profile for every shoot since lighting conditions are always different? (in rarely shoot in studio ) thank you :)
You are the best!
you can take your white balance sample from one of the two boxes in the swatch of the colour checker passport. look for the two grey squares which have a little scallop shaped cut out. You dont need to used the grey card
It happens eerily often that I start thinking about getting something and one of you guys do a video on it. Color is my nemesis. It's fine most of the time but, when it's bad, it's irreparably this-is-gonna-be-a-black-and-white-photo BAD. I have a grey card I usually forget to use but doesn't always nail it anyway. I just calibrated my monitor using a Spyder but you're still setting the color by eye. I'm heavily leaning toward an X-Rite. So this was very helpful and strangely timely.
Reading your mind.....
Cameras produce some colors more accurately than others. Canon specifically gets reds almost spot on, but blues and purples are super dull and washed out by comparison. It really depends on the colors you're shooting! Poor exposure is also the nemesis to color, so make sure you're getting correct exposures in camera. Using a light meter or shooting a gray card and knowing where that gray should peak on the histogram are two techniques to feed the sensor the light it needs for best results. Also controlling your fill light and other lighting ratios in camera when using flash is crucial too. The less you are adjusting that Exposure slider and the others, the better. It's easy to just jerk everything around in post, but just be aware the more you pull a file, the less color quality you retain. And another thing to consider is just because a strobes off studio shot is pure black doesn't mean there's no data in the file. Daniel Norton demonstrates shooting a black frame then pulling the exposure slider up. He likes to have to pull it almost 2 full stops before you can start to see the color critical parts of the image start to show up. Otherwise, your initial frame may be free of ambient light, but pulling the shadows or blacks up even just a tiny bit might start to reintroduce ambient light back into your shot. And the results of a color checker will also start to deteriorate because your custom color profile will account for less and less of that.
great video!!
Very helpfull!
David: is it best to shoot the 18% gray and set my camera's auto white balance with that image to keep a consistency even before ever going to LR or ACR?
Thanks David for this video. I have the Colour Checker Passport, but I must admit I haven't been using this properly. Your explanation was very detailed. What are your thoughts regarding using the Expose Disk? Keep safe....Keith Pinn (Ontario Canada)
Keith Pinn Thanks. The expo disc is one method to get a proper white balance. I found shooting a calibrated grey card to be much simpler / quicker.
Excellent information. I have a question, what do you do with all the profiles that build up with time under Camera Calibration? Is there a way to save some standard, reusable profiles. Do we have to make profiles for each lens we use? Thanks 😊
Alejandro Perez Excellent question! I regularly purge mine from the profiles folder. I suppose if I had some setups that were identical, I would just name those profiles in a way so I know those are the ones to keep. But I still think I’d do a new profile occasionally just in case there were any subtle shifts.
Thnak you.
can you use the photo colour checker for film and videography work. i am aware they have one for video but can this be used for both?
Hi David,
Thank you for the explanations.
About outdoor shooting, if the lighting conditions are likely to be constant 'long enough', is possible to take the first shot with the color checker, then to apply the method in post-process to the other shots ?
In extension, one can make regular shots to adapt to the lighting conditions ?
Regards
In theory, yes. Reality is that if you are going for extremely accurate and consistent color, the light outdoors changes even little by little as clouds move, fog and dust moves through the atmosphere, etc. It may or may not be noticeable, but obviously this is more ideal in a controlled environment.
@@DavidBergmanPhoto hello David - just watched this video… got a question! If you photograph the color checker also in that same lighting, wouldn’t the temperature of those colors on the checker also change? I am a bit confused about that part.. does the color checker calibration software know the exact color code of those in the physical chart and adjust the parameters accordingly to match the colors in that lighting? Hope I am clear 😀
thank you for these tips and tricks videos.. am not a beginner but I’ve learnt a lot from some of your super informative videos!
Dave I been shooting mma with a red mat that reflects red light back into every fighters skin tone . It’s tungsten lightening ....what do I do ? Canon 1dxii
i have a question . how to use the color check in different scene . and the color palette each color how to use out door or different scene
Ive seem others crop the color checker, adjust exposure and black levels before exporting the image to the software to create a color profile, so which is the correct method?
Hi David and Adorama, do you use the checker passport color when you take photos at NFL games? Or how do you calibrate your camera so that the colors are as faithful as possible to the colors inside a football stadium?
Just remember, you have to do one EVERY time you shoot with different lighting. Hope he gets into calibrating monitors. Without that you will get confused. The freeware DisplayCal works really well, sometimes better than Xrite and the ColorSpyders calibrations which can make things very confusing as they should all be the same.
I was watching this and a question popped in my head. So doesn't exposure affect this calibration? If I, for example, underexpose the image, won't that affect the creation of this color profile?
David, I respect your expertise and have enjoyed, and learned from, all of your videos. I intend on continuing to do so as long as you are willing to share. However, (and you may correct me where I am wrong) you can create the profile directly from the CR2 file within Lightroom and not have to convert to DNG and use the ColorChecker software. It is completed in the same manner you described and aside from restarting Lightroom (the same you were required to do in Camera RAW to load the profile) it is a much easier one-step and one program process. In this manner I have processed many photos. Again, thank you for sharing and please correct me, as necessary.
dcshores49 Ah - to be fair, I don’t use Lightroom. I believe there’s a plug-in for LR Classic. Can you do it also using LR CC??
@@DavidBergmanPhoto X-Rite software installed the necessary plug-in making it very easy to build the profiles. I do not use CC and cannot answer for that. Thank you for your reply and I look forward to your next video.
Just so I understand this, you should take a new photo of the color checker when the lighting, etc changes, correct? If not the colors would be off again if using the profile of the color checker from another lighting situation?
Hi, I can locally find the old passport, will it be ok, or should I get the passport 2? What are main differences please?
Since changing the profile, such as changing it to the one created by the color checker will change the color response, it would make sense to me to set the white balance after selecting the profile, rather than before.
The profile actually should give you a neutral color balance, but if you want to adjust it warmer or colder than yes, absolutely after the profile.
As a hybrid shooter, do I need just the ColorChecker Passport Photo 2, just the ColorChecker Passport Video, or both?
I enjoyed your demonstration on how that works, I always wondered how you were supposed to use it. Now the big questions is, "do you use this method very often?" Looks to me like you need to take a picture of the color checker every time the lights change. So unless you are in a very static situation, you take a lot of pictures, then have to create a profile for each shot that you deem worthy of the extra effort. In other words, it appears to me that it is a technique that you save for special photos. Is that a correct assessment?
Rusty Myers Yea - the people who generally need the most accurate colors are working in the studio. I wouldn’t attempt this on a run and gun situation.
Hi David, two white/grey/black card question? When do you choose/combine which? And how does Lightroom/Capture One “ know” if you’ve selected white/grey/black?
Good Video.
Color Management is a chain.
As strong as it's weakest link.
The irony is photographer's judge colors of a $ 5000 Lens + camera on a $150 monitor.
80% photographer's have not seen the true colors of their camera though having spent considerable years in their trade.
Ex Minolta
Ex Sinar.
I need to color match cameras of different models in OBS Studio. If I create a profile for each one of them with Color Checker and then export them as LUTs from Photoshop, would it work?
How would I then apply these “correct Settings” across multiple images in photoshop?
If I was shooting and interior space. Where would I place the passport? And how big would it need to be in the frame?
I get the basic idea here, but I’m quite a beginner in the photo & video field, so some stuff definitely flyes way above & over my brain. How would I go about using the color checker to match my 5D mk4 and Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera 6K for live streaming? Basically I like the Canon’s setting as I have them now, so I’d like to match the BMPCC6K to the 5D, so when going between cameras on my live streams there would be very little if any difference. My streams are done in the same space and I can control the lighting and other variables quite well from stream to stream. I do have 3 different themed streams, a each having their own color (purple, blue & yellow-ish white, done with Philips Hue lights), but first I should get the cameras matching in neutral light, right?
Hey, what you want to do is very doable, and similar to this but includes some other steps to apply it to the video on the fly. Send me a mail or reply here (hopefully I am notified) and I can tell you how to move on forward with that!!
Also, nice to see the one and only Darude!!
Excellent video. Did the color temperature change from 5,000 after the Color Checker correction was applied?
No, it was set at 5000 after I did my "click" white balance.
David Bergman Thanks David.
You did that in Ps, is LrC the same?
Does this work with Corel Paintshop or Corel After Shot?
Very "illuminating." Thanks!
"Brilliant" comment!
Does the software come with the checker or is it part of light room? I shoot Fuji and the files have to be converted to DNG. Do I loose anything in that process?
The thing is that the profile doesn't only realign the hues, but also the saturation of each individual hue, so they become true to life.
Hi. Can I use the same color checker for photography and video?
So in short, white can be achieved with various combinations of colors, and locking down white as white therefore does not automatically specify which exact hue the rest of the colors get.
Can I use the colour checker passport 2 for video?
3:33
No that's not an 18% grey card. It's the white balance card from the v1 Passport.
Passport v2 has an 18% grey card next to the white balance card. 18% grey is much darker.
Thanks for the video David... Question: I've had my Color Checker for about 2 years... to be honest, I don't think I've used it. Should I replace it even though I don't think it's been opened but once or twice?? Thanks in advance
Should be fine. It's just years of exposure to light and accidental touching that starts to fade the colors.
I know your comment is old, but I just thought it was odd to replace something that you don't use. An overpriced something at that.
Is that tee shirt a military medical unit?
As you are a Camera Raw User - I thought I would ask a question. Why does Raw install all the camera profiles in the world when I only have one camera or 2?
Isn't there a concern over taking the true RAW data and running it through a RAW converter like ACR before making the DNG image that you open in the Color Calibration software? I would think the profile that was used to open the RAW image in order to export it to DNG would be a huge influence into how much adjustment the Color Checker software would apply, and that new profile would only look when also using that specific application (i.e. Adobe Camera Raw) and initial profile within that application (i.e. Adobe Standard)?
Yes - you should use an "unprocessed" DNG. I simply run my Canon CR2/3 files through the free Adobe DNG convertor, which doesn't do any processing on the image. Alternatively, the ColorChecker software can now create ICC profiles, and you need to use a TIFF for that. To do that, you should export a "flat" TIFF file. In Camera Raw, that means using the "no color correction" profile and the "linear response" curve and then exporting a 16b bit TIFF (make sure the profile is embedded on output).
David, is there mistake? In my opinion, firstly set a camera profile, secondly set a white balance. Am I right? You first set a white balance and after that you set a camera profile which gives different effect. Please answer :)
What software do you use to make the videos with?
Thank you for this. Would I be able to do this using the passport and Capture One Pro?
Capture One had a beta, but it was a pain the the butt to use compared to the one for ACR. Hopefully by now the have a final and easier to use version.
Yes! Thankfully now you can create an ICC profile from the latest colorchecker software using a TIFF, not DNG. The DNG version creates a DCP profile, which is not compatible with ICC. Just install the ICC profile on your system and you will be able to access it inside of Capture One (and other software as well!).
Good explanation, but you should know that an "18% gray card" is not used for white balance (3:32). It's used to set exposure because it reflects 18% of light, and it is not spectrally neutral, normally. A white balance gray card, which should be spectrally neutral (many are not), is used for white balance.
It is great. That I don't get how little simple plastic chart with colors could cost $100+....
David, hope you're still monitoring these comments because I'm confused. Your example of oranges on a blue towel in a red bowl: Using the color checker will create a profile that makes the blue towel match the blue ColorChecker target swatch. But I want the blue towel to match the blue towel as it appeared in the existing lighting. Maybe the towel actually was blue with a slight greenish cast. Once the Color Checker maps the image to the targets won't the towel be turned by the profile into the same blue as the target swatch? Seems like the Color Checker would need 56M colors of targets to map and profile, silly as that sounds.
What's a good one to start with if you don't have $100
Can color checker fix colors from a RYYB sensor?
If the monitor is benq sw2700 100% srgb do you still need colour checker passport ? It says 💯 percent hardware colour calibration . Thanks
Yes. Ideally, you want to have your monitor calibrated as well. I use the Datacolor SpyderX Pro www.adorama.com/icvsxp100.html?kbid=66043 - the idea is to have everything calibrated so that you will see the exact same color from capture to output. Each device handles color differently, so creating profiles for each should help them all match.
Does this work with Capture one? And great Video
Thanks! Yes - it does work with Capture One, finally. You just have to create the profile with the standalone software and save it into the proper folder so C1 recognizes it as an option.
Why dont camera printer and monitor manufacturers make their products to comply with ICC profiles then there would be no need for this............would there?
Darrell Adrian I’m not sure that’s possible since every lighting situation is different. Since there still has to be an analog to digital conversion, there is always going to be some special sauce applied by each company. They are all trying to be accurate, but it can’t know exactly what it’s seeing unless you give it something consistent like the color checker to analyze.
I'm seeing examples where people are exporting a TIF file for the color checker software, so I don't think it has to be a DNG.
Yikes. I thought that when I calibrated my monitor and shot with custom white balance I was “good to go." Guess not.
If your happy with your results , your good to go. But really, color calibration begins with camera calibration profiles (which is what he made in the video). I use the CCPP once in a while for some still life pics. It works. You can make some generic profiles with a profile for each camera/lens profile with 1 each for sunny, cloudy etc.
Cameras these days have pretty stunning color as-is. But even if you don't need accurate color for product, a Color Checker still gets absolutely gorgeous, rich, true-to-life colors that are so vibrant and beautiful. It's so worth it!
Hi David, the X-Rite ColorChecker PP2 is about $138 in Germany and I strongly dislike the idea of replacing it every second or so year based X-Rite's suggestion. Can you explain how come colors fade on this ColorChecker when you keep the box closed in a studio where this device would not be exposed to sunlight at all? I assume UV rays from sunlight make colors fade, no UV rays in a studio might mean it could serve its purpose for way longer than 2 years.
Evander Quinn That is just the company’s recommendation. I assume they’re referring to one that gets a lot of regular use in a commercial studio. I’ve had mine longer than two years. :)
I could see this being a worthwhile investment for product / fine art photographers. Not sure hobbyists would need it to photograph oranges. Grey card and saturation/vibrance or HSL sliders will do the same thing in less time, and you save $150.
changing hsl doesnt do the same thing because the monitor, camera, and eyes might all see things differently you you have no idea what is accurate. This method matches exactly to one standard.
10:31 is really a "depends" kind of situation. Unless the person who wants to buy that item is watching this on your monitor.
Haha, maybe. But if you work for a catalog company, you ideally have everything calibrated from capture to output. Camera profiles, monitor, and prepress/printing. Most commercial printers have ICC profiles you can download so you can match to their systems.
That's what I was thinking as well. And my next thought was David's response (to some extent).
is there a final version for Capture One? They had a beta a few months ago...
You can now export an ICC profile from the latest ColorChecker software. Those can be used by Capture One. Just export a "flat" TIFF file in C2 - use the "no color correction" profile and the "linear response" curve and then export a 16 bit TIFF (make sure the profile is embedded on output). Load that into CC and save to your system. Restart C1 and you can access it now in the "other" dropdown.
Does this work for video if It does, how.
Even for my admittedly non-critical work (quick family snapshots etc) I'm guilty of fiddling with colors way too much. _That looks good, no that looks better, wait is that correct? I kind of like it better like this_ .... and before you know it you've lost the plot.
That's not to say I intend to whip one of these checkers out all the time, but I suspect I'd use it more often than just leaving it all to chance.
The Color Checker does fade over time
David Crooks The company suggests replacing it every two years for that reason.
How about the color 24 chart for spyder? Do you recommend it
Same deal, different maker. As long as you have a calibrated standard target and software that can create a profile from it that's usable in the processing software you use, it's a good option. Datacolor (the maker of the Spyder) isn't a fly-by-night operation; you can count on them provided you keep your colour target up to date.
Does it work for Datacolor's SpyderCHEKR24?
The SPyderCHECR24 is a similar product and works the same way. You just use their software to create a profile, which is then loaded into the raw converter.
Calibrating your screen, great, but how does it look on an uncalibrated screen!? If it is for the internet surely shoot in Srgb, edit in Srgb. If it's for print shoot in adobe and edit in adobe (RAW files obviously so we can all make it up as we go along and assist with our inability to take the best shot in camera, sorry I mean use our artistic license!) you likely only need a white card for in camera WB and grey card for post production. Colour checker for who you need to colour match for a client or that special portrait. But never ever lose the shot for the sake of digging one these out your bag surely!?
Martyn Phillips Ideally, you are calibrated all the way through to final output. But yes - as I say in the video, it’s not practical for run and gun photography. The people who need the most accurate colors are shooting in studio where there is more time to do this kind of calibration.
Questions:
1- The white balance used on the camera for my test picture with the colorchecker at the beginning of the shoot, is it totally unimportant?
2- For the test picture, if I plan on using flashes in my small home studio, should I take the test picture with the flash or the results will be the same no matter what? I guess if ur pictures are gonna have both ambiant light and flash, that's a "different condition" so u want to put the colorchecker with both at the same time to be more accurate rather than just ambiant light?
3- Instead of using Lightroom and openning my test photo with a grey card, can I set a custom white balance with the card directly on the camera then keep it for my entire shoot and it's gonna be as accurate as Lightroom?
Thanks a lot!