To be honest, during and after the war both the British and American armies spent a lot of time studying the reports and results from tank on tank actions (including sending people to visit the wrecks if possible). They found that in most cases the tank that fired the first round was the one that won the action. That turned out to be true in almost every case. Another thing that they also found was that the majority of tanks destroyed in tank on tank actions were destroyed from ambush, not in front on front confrontations. Those reports are pretty dry, but still interesting reading if you can get hold of them (or have the time to read them!) I believe that this is partly what prompted Germany to go light, fast and heavy firepower when the developed the Leopard, same with the French. With that data plus the advent of ammunition types such as HEAT as well as early ATGMs armour was seen to be relatively inneffective.
@@SvenTviking To be fair I think many of this era had longer barrels with very high pressures, while trying to keep the weight reasonable. I'm not sure how the old barrels would hold up to being packed with clay.
My grandfather can be seen inside his tank at 4:13 . Charles Edmund Saunders of Walters Falls, Ontario fighting with the British Columbia Regiment. He was the L/O in that tank.
My uncle Percy was a TC for the Calgary Tank regiment) and my Uncle Roy was his gunner in a Sherman. They were in a variety of Sheman tanks, they lost 3 to mines and 2 to anti-tank guns. They only had one casualty, their driver who was kiled by a round through the glacis. My uncles were both quite happy when wet stowage of rounds became available. This greatly reduced fire risk. Getting out was apparently quite quick if you got hit.
@@roscothefirst4712 my grandfather was originally in an Sherman M4 until it was lost in the battle of Falaise. His entire crew survived but was divided among other crews to replace those who had been lost. It was at this point that he was put in a Firefly. Glad your Uncles made it through!
Greg Smith my great grandfather originally volunteered for the Canadian armoured division in St Thomas but was denied, he later joined the infantry as a radioman
@Brian One of my grandfathers worked in a steel plant in Nova Scotia that made artillery shells, my other grandfather (who served in World War I) volunteered and became a guard of German POWs in Ontario, and two of his sons also volunteered: my father was ground crew at the world's largest air base during the war (Goose Bay, Labrador) and his brother was a medic with Canadian troops in Italy, Holland, and Germany in '43-'45. Like your grandfather, they were ordinary people whose efforts mattered.
went to bovington a few years back to see tankfest best experience ever its just surreal. to see the tanks that are so iconic performing maneuvers i plan to go again this next year for tankfest well worth every penny. :) Also i'd recommend visiting arnhem as that is a history nerds dream day out helped that i used to live not far from there.
Fun fact: The length of the 17pdr gun was disguisd by painting disruptive lines along the extra barrel length making it look like an standard 75mm gun from a distance. The paint scheme was designed by the artist Rex Whistler who served in the Guards Armoured Division and was sadly killed in Normandy.
My father drove a Sherman with a multibank Chrysler engine in the Calgary Tank Regiment(14th Armoured regiment) in Italy, Belgium and Holland. He never used the term firefly but called it a 17 pounder Sherman. He also said Canadian practice was have the 17lb equipped Sherman to be second in column in a troop to make it less likely a target for the Germans.
My father was a 75mm Sherman tank gunner in Normandy. He told me his troop didn''t have a Firefly. His war lasted three weeks for reasons I don't really need to go into, except only three of his crew survived.
I always thought of the Firefly as the most British tank ever: "You can't fit a 17pdr in a Sherman turret"! "Oh, really"?, says the chap smoking a pipe and with leather patches on the elbows of his tweed jacket. *Retires to workshop at the end of the garden* *Sounds of loud banging, grunting and polite swearing* *re-emerges from workshop* "There you go"! "But the gun is on its side!" "Yes, but it works". "You had to cut a hole in the back of the turret!" "Yes, but it works" "You've had to get rid of the spare driver!" "Yes, but it works" "Oh, all right then; how many do you want?"
Unfortunately not. Another chap that I did not recognise was taking shots for the video. Like I say, they were the internal shots edited in is post production, so only the one chap there and there wasn't an opportunity to sneak into a background shot ;-)
Back to work after two weeks off, feeling blue then my mood lifts after spotting another "Tank Chat" with David Fletcher. Kettle on and 8 mins of tank pleasure
@@TheBob3759 Depends on the job assigned to the tank. The regular Sherman was quite good at infantry assault support. The Firefly was much better at fighting other tanks, but wasn't nearly as good as infantry assault due to the limited high explosive ammunition. He even explained this in the video.
Everyone likes to think that the German tanks were as huge as houses but just look at Mr. Fletcher next to that thing! He's tiny compared to the Sherman.
Bence Juhász I know he's not the tallest gent on the block, that's rather apperant but I doubt even David Willie would stand much taller than the hull. The Sherman's massive and while not certainly King Tiger or Jagdtiger massive, I'd say they stack up to a Tiger I or a Panther.
Last year we visited the Munster Tank Museum. There, I saw the first time ever WW 2 tanks. I understood then, why the Panther was designated as heavy tank. Even the Achilles was a huge vehicle, the Tiger II was like a barn, and they didn't have a Jagdtiger. But the most suprising size for me was the Hetzer, how low was that, and the Jagdpanther, which was almost the same height, as the Tiger. So yes, these machines are HUGE.
Stunning machine! The British definitely overhauled her! I'm just back from Bovington this week it was great! I bought a few model kit's and got this one from RYE field model's to build! Doing the Sherman Jumbo on white wash just now can't wait to start my firefly! I bought the AFV club model David Fletcher favourite rota trailer lol
Sir 17-pounder won’t fit! Put it in sideways Radio won’t fit! Cut a hole in the back an have it stick out the back Engine’s no good! Get 5 car engines and put em together
That is what the US did for their 76mm gun Shermans. The 76mm Shermans was installed in a much larger turrent then the earlier 75 75mm Shermans. The Firefly was installed in the smaller 75mm turrents and when tested by the US Army, the Army rejected it as to cramped for the crew. Please note the US 76mm gun was considered as good as the 17 pounder of the firefly, if given top end anti armor ammunition. The problem was US WWII doctrine reserved such ammo to tank destroyers not tanks. Thus during WWII the Firefly Sherman was considered better then the 76mm Shermans, but in Korea, where the 76 mm Shermans received the high end anti tank ammo, was considered as good as any other tank in a tank to tank fight.
I would be very scared for several reasons chief amount at those being that would be more Firefly's then the number of men in the U.S Army. Which would mean reality is breaking apart
According to David Render in his book, the blast of the gun was so powerful that the tank commander actually had to dive in the turret at every shot to avoid harm.
Always bothered me that in the movie Kelly's Heroes the tank commander character 'Oddball' bolted a length of steel pipe onto his Sherman's regular sized cannon to make it look like a Firefly. He claimed he did it to scare the Germans when in fact what he was really doing was making himself more of a target.
It wasn't to mimic the firefly it was to make it look like a 76mm instead of the 75mm as the 76 was a longer gun. And the firefly did scare the Germans as they knew it could knock them out easily hence why they targeted them first
Not a firefly. More like a normal longer barreled 75 which the US managed to stick on after. And yeah that always worked the wrong way around didnt it xD
My father's older brother my Uncle Cliff, was a sergeant in one of these in the war. And yes, he did survive the war, and died aged 99, and 20 days short of his 100th.
The Chieftain got into the turret of a Firefly and could barely fit into the gunner's position. (The look on his face was priceless!) It's a pity David Fletcher didn't give it a try. He looks to be about the same size as Joe Ekins, the most famous Firefly gunner. I can't help but believe crewman size was what determined who would be the Firefly's gunner!
This is the stuff that should be on the internet more : facts, presented by people who research and know the facts, without any form of sensationalism.
The term Firefly was actually the code name for all their 17 pdr armed vehicle prototypes, the official term used in WW2 for these tanks was the Sherman 17pdr
"It had to get the first shot in and destroy the enemy tank before the enemy tank fired at *it*; Just to make it a bit more exciting for them" I can really never be quite sure how self-aware David Fletcher MBE is of how hilarious his commentary is.
I absolutely adore this channel, the videos are top top quality and the presenters are an eternal fountain of armoured vehicle knowledge which EVERYONE should listen to. Brilliant work fellas, I love the content!!🇬🇧✌️
No idea how I ended up here, but the David Attenborough of tanks seems to be a very knowledgeable well presented gentleman, who's very informative and interesting to watch! Well done sir!!
Pfsif in fact it's so reliable that a Germany tank had to knock it out ... so how likely would-be for a Chrysler car to be knocked out by a German tank..
The british worked with chrysler to make it more reliable than the standard chrysler multibank engine and apparently the modified engine was the most reliable Sherman engine of the war. I think it's mentioned in one of the ChieftainWoT's videos.
Fascinating information as ever. I hope he explains Challenger soon that, was the upgraded Cromwell 17Pounder, making the tank very tall. It was used in Normandy it will be interesting to know how it got on. The firefly was the better compromise though very tight in side. The commonwealth forces understood they needed something to combat the cats during 1944, until comet and Centurion arrived. The ordnance department let the US armour force down, they had to struggle on until the 90mm M36 and Pershing arrived late 44 early 45. The controversy that dogged the Firefly 74 years ago is alive to day a pragmatic solution to a significant problem. However, the most important factor is those guys in the tank. It provided a major psychological boost to the Commonwealth Allied forces, Montgomery quoted they love it, they did make around 2100 of them and the German Army went after it first. Psychologically, what do you prefer, alive in an uncomfortable tank, or a casualty in a comfortable tank. The US armoured divisions had 54,872 casualties in the European theatre, total fatal 11,566 of which 9,559 in action.the controversial question how many could have been saved with Firefly? Refer, Battle casualties by theater, organization, type, and disposition: 7 December 1941-31 December 1946.
loved this as with the other Tank Chats but would always like more. The Chrysler multibank engine sounds interesting too so will have to learn more about it. Thanks for Tank Chats, they are appreciated.
The spuds would be peeled to a 76.4mm cylnder, then chopped off at one end, with curvy point at the other. Bake for 8 hours. Who would eat that, Wittman! Diliveroo done right,no need to answer the door.
The flash when the 17pdr was fired was so fearsome that not only did it give the Fireflies' position away to the Germans, but it would also temporarily blind the firefly crew and even singe the commander's eyebrows if he failed to duck inside the turret! Crews quickly learned to close their eyes when the gun was fired and then immediately pull back into cover to avoid return fire. Initially there were only enough fireflies to provide one per troop, so they tended to be used in overwatch positions while the other 3 Sherman's roved forward; if the 75mm armed Sherman's ran into a German tank they couldn't deal with, then the firefly would be called to take out the German tank. Eventually there were enough fireflies available to provide 2 per troop. After doing nothing but find fault with the firefly before D-Day the Americans did eventually request to be supplied with fireflies but the British were short of both fireflies and 17pdr ammunition, so couldn't comply
Ultimate irony is the 76mm armed M4s where sitting in Britain available but not brought over due to logistical concerns and the feeling the 75mm would be sufficient, which it was 99% of the time. Since tanks spent most of their combat time supporting infantry, something most forget. 76mm M4s where in so many respects superior to the Firefly. But the Firefly was the one that was actually there when it was needed and that's what gives you fame.
Say that when your staring a Tiger in the face. The Firefly was brought about for a very specific role, to give the Tank units Front line ability to kill big cats, and at that it excelled .
Love this series. It's an excellent format and very informative. Thanks for the new one, because i've seen them all! Mr. Fletcher does excellent work and is a great presenter. I hope he conducts tours at the museum and that i get to meet him some day.
The Firefly is kind of like that Big Brother you have when you're getting bullied at School. You're the Normal Sherman and the Bully is the Tiger... No wonder most Tankers called Firefly crews "Charlie."
>The americans only encountered 3. The british faced all of those that were in normandy and there were more than 100 tigers there. Even in tunisia the british faced the bulk of them, with the germans losing 19 tigers in one day to the british first army in operation ochsenkopff.
A great man gives great talks about great tanks!On top of all the other fantastic things here, they find some awesome WW2 images and footage I've never seen.
Thanks for yet another very interesting video! This is yet another exmple of a very good characteristic of the Sherman. It was how well it could be converted to other variants. Just think of it. The Shermans itself used four guns. 75mm, 76mm, 105mm and the 17pdr. Also, the M10 and M36 TD-s with 3-inch and 90-mm guns were based on the Sherman chassis. Also, they built so many specialized vehicles on the Sherman. The Duplex Drive amphibious tank, the Crab mine-clearer, the M32 ARV. What other tank of WWII era was so flexible?
The Panzer III also had 4 guns on the tank variants and of course,the Sturmgeschütz III assault gun/tank hunter also got 3 guns.Or 4 guns,if I count the Sturmpanzer II/StuG III hybrid and the Sturmpanzer III.And also had multiple specialized vehicles. By the way the Sherman had got two variants with the 90 mm M3 on standard hulls.One with an M26 turret(2 specimens were manufactured if I remember correctly),and the M36B1 which has an M4A3 hull.
The only tanks that give it a run for the money are both "only just" WW2 tanks, The M26 and Centurion, both of which would have long lives although the M26 technically becomes the M46/48 later. In terms of so many variants in such a short space of time, nothing matches the Sherman really.
The Churchill is definitely at least as flexible. 2-Pounder, two different 3-inch howitzers, 6-Pounder, M4's 75mm, QF 75mm, Flamethrowers, 295mm Spigot Mortar, 17-Pounder, large amounts of uparmouring, mine clearers, bridging systems, Ark models, APC variants, hull mounted large guns, tank destroyer variants...absolutely endless combat engineering variants. Western Allies sure did understand the need for flexibility.
It occurs to me that if you were a German crew member of a towed anti-tank gun (rather than in an armoured vehicle) then the 75 mm Sherman was more of a threat to you, because it could blow you to bits with a high explosive round?
I think a high explosive and an armor penetrating round were equally bad news to a towed gun. Maybe more casualties with a high explosive round. But shrapnel from an AP would be bad too.
@@kpd3308 But a shell with a bigger bursting charge would have a bigger radius around the point of impact for killing you, whereas an a.p. round would need to be exactly on target to kill.
From what I've read, the original 75mm gun was preferred for infantry support. Its HE round really was a better round to use against softer targets. Which is, of course, what it's original purpose was. Early US doctrine was that tanks would support the infantry and towed AT guns and tank destroyers would take on the panzers.
The 17pdr on my Dad's tank got stuck into the side of a ditch or gulley. They had some of the crew from another disabled Sherman crammed into the turret. It was pitch dark and when dad pulled forward the tank went down into the gulley, forced the gun back and ejected a round onto the lap of one of the "passengers"...Austin Baker. (From his wartime diary with the 4/7 RDG. The length of the barrel could certainly pose problems at times, hence the gun cradle on the side of the rear deck.....when out of the line That is !
Great video , I live near and have visited slapton sands many times in commemoration of operation/exercise tiger tragedy of ww2. Great to learn more about the firefly and Sherman m4, thanks
My grandfather was REME, attached to Guards Armoured Division, I understand he supported Sherman Fireflies while they trained before D Day. Thinking of coming over for a look next week.
My wifes great grand father was a legend he fought on d-day in a donald duck tank then when they built the firefly he got upgraded! Peter ewert of the 1st hussars absolute legend!!
Yeah - I remember the first time one drove past me at a show. I thought 'my god that's an excessively big tank for what it can do'. Then they put a 17pdr on it and it all makes sense :D
I think that quote should be amended to read "From the front or any angle". Wittman's Tiger was taken out by a normal Sherman from the side at under 300m remember?
Went to my wife's grandmother's for xmas a few years back, it was awful, drinking a scotch I noticed a group photo of a firefly crew in front of their tank with a long long barrel. I sat up and asked who was that, oh that's my late husband he was in Normandy but I never asked him what he did.
Huh? How did they fail to do so? Tons of later model Shermans had 76's, even the Soviets had 2,000+ 76mm Shermans as lend-lease. Not to mention the M18 Hellcat and the Jumbo Sherman also had the 76mm.
Marten Trudeau they did eventually. They refused to accept the British saying that a 17Pdr would be good, so the British did it to their own Sherman’s. Eventually the US realised that they needed one, but Britain was in a short supply so the US just made their own versions
I've read somewhere that after the war Swedish took some of the Fireflies. On one occasion while on the range one or two 'banks' caught on fire. After extinguishing fire the tank was able to limp back home on remaining engines.
The US made a new larger turrent for its 76mm Shermans, the British put their 17 pounder gun inside the smaller turrent of a 75 75mm Shermans. Being inside that smaller turrent made it a tight fit for the crew, so tight a fit that the US rejected using such Fireflys when offered by the British.
@@paulmentzer7658 The British thought it more imporant to have a tank that could take on the Panther's and Tigers as soon as possible, even if it wasn't perfect. The Firefly was good enough at the time and they preferred not to wait any longer.
May have been cramped and a had a bit of gun flash in the turret, but it got us through the early stages of France liberation and was a work of art that they got it to fit
It had to get the first shot off "just to make it a bit more exciting for them" Fletcher is a international treasure.
Another phrase to add to the list of "Most British Thing Ever Said".
Miller Time .. those first sightings must have been really exciting. ..
@Steven King: Along with "every time they went over a hill they ran the risk of sticking the gun into the ground... which not everyone liked."
To be honest, during and after the war both the British and American armies spent a lot of time studying the reports and results from tank on tank actions (including sending people to visit the wrecks if possible).
They found that in most cases the tank that fired the first round was the one that won the action. That turned out to be true in almost every case. Another thing that they also found was that the majority of tanks destroyed in tank on tank actions were destroyed from ambush, not in front on front confrontations.
Those reports are pretty dry, but still interesting reading if you can get hold of them (or have the time to read them!)
I believe that this is partly what prompted Germany to go light, fast and heavy firepower when the developed the Leopard, same with the French. With that data plus the advent of ammunition types such as HEAT as well as early ATGMs armour was seen to be relatively inneffective.
in 1956 with the m 48 they still talked of first shot kills, it turns out the speed of laying on the target is still critical
"... ran the chance of running the gun into the ground. Which not everyone liked."
Classic.
Therese Jardinier My mate, who was an MOD test engineer, said that the modern 120 mm can fire with about 20lb of soil in the end of the gun.
@@SvenTviking damn seriously...thats awesome.
@@SvenTviking I would’ve loved to seen the testing for that aspect of the gun! …From a distance….
haha
@@SvenTviking To be fair I think many of this era had longer barrels with very high pressures, while trying to keep the weight reasonable. I'm not sure how the old barrels would hold up to being packed with clay.
My grandfather can be seen inside his tank at 4:13 . Charles Edmund Saunders of Walters Falls, Ontario fighting with the British Columbia Regiment. He was the L/O in that tank.
My uncle Percy was a TC for the Calgary Tank regiment) and my Uncle Roy was his gunner in a Sherman. They were in a variety of Sheman tanks, they lost 3 to mines and 2 to anti-tank guns. They only had one casualty, their driver who was kiled by a round through the glacis.
My uncles were both quite happy when wet stowage of rounds became available. This greatly reduced fire risk. Getting out was apparently quite quick if you got hit.
@@roscothefirst4712 my grandfather was originally in an Sherman M4 until it was lost in the battle of Falaise. His entire crew survived but was divided among other crews to replace those who had been lost. It was at this point that he was put in a Firefly. Glad your Uncles made it through!
Greg Smith my great grandfather originally volunteered for the Canadian armoured division in St Thomas but was denied, he later joined the infantry as a radioman
Cool!
@Brian One of my grandfathers worked in a steel plant in Nova Scotia that made artillery shells, my other grandfather (who served in World War I) volunteered and became a guard of German POWs in Ontario, and two of his sons also volunteered: my father was ground crew at the world's largest air base during the war (Goose Bay, Labrador) and his brother was a medic with Canadian troops in Italy, Holland, and Germany in '43-'45. Like your grandfather, they were ordinary people whose efforts mattered.
These videos should be longer. I could listen to David Fletcher talk tank all day.
Valhalla Knight .. surely he has a lot more than 9 minutes worth. . probably should be visiting him in the museum. .
just a cheap 1500.00$ plane ride away!
How much does it cost to get in the museum, I'd like to go there one day.
TheMightyCongueror Google it ?
went to bovington a few years back to see tankfest best experience ever its just surreal. to see the tanks that are so iconic performing maneuvers i plan to go again this next year for tankfest well worth every penny. :)
Also i'd recommend visiting arnhem as that is a history nerds dream day out helped that i used to live not far from there.
Fun fact: The length of the 17pdr gun was disguisd by painting disruptive lines along the extra barrel length making it look like an standard 75mm gun from a distance. The paint scheme was designed by the artist Rex Whistler who served in the Guards Armoured Division and was sadly killed in Normandy.
Nice one mate.
If see a dislike here it was a mistake i hit it twice to give you 2 likes sorry
Brilliant post. Didn't realise that was how it was done! You learn something everyday. Well done.
He served his country well in the guards with his idea, how nows how many lives he saved.
My father drove a Sherman with a multibank Chrysler engine in the Calgary Tank Regiment(14th Armoured regiment) in Italy, Belgium and Holland. He never used the term firefly but called it a 17 pounder Sherman. He also said Canadian practice was have the 17lb equipped Sherman to be second in column in a troop to make it less likely a target for the Germans.
That weapon is so strong, so powerful, so deadly...
One should wield such a moustache with the utter most care.
Most people dream of meeting movie stars. My dream is to meet Mr. Fletcher. His wealth of knowledge is awesome.
If it were too strong, the German would oppose the Tiger.
@@tuncersahin4554 the Germans had the Tiger they didn't oppose it
My father was a 75mm Sherman tank gunner in Normandy. He told me his troop didn''t have a Firefly. His war lasted three weeks for reasons I don't really need to go into, except only three of his crew survived.
Should have been in a M26 Pershing...the whole lot of them.
Albert Tankenstein about to drop his theory of Panzertivity...
Special or General?
I always thought of the Firefly as the most British tank ever:
"You can't fit a 17pdr in a Sherman turret"!
"Oh, really"?, says the chap smoking a pipe and with leather patches on the elbows of his tweed jacket.
*Retires to workshop at the end of the garden*
*Sounds of loud banging, grunting and polite swearing*
*re-emerges from workshop*
"There you go"!
"But the gun is on its side!"
"Yes, but it works".
"You had to cut a hole in the back of the turret!"
"Yes, but it works"
"You've had to get rid of the spare driver!"
"Yes, but it works"
"Oh, all right then; how many do you want?"
"Just to make it a bit more... exciting for them" This guy is the best presenter of anything ever.
American and British cooperation resulted in two legends. The Firefly and the P51 Mustang with its Merlin engine.
🙂👍
That's called a stealth mustache, it allows you to speak without anyone noticing you're talking.
Oh, ok....I thought he was speaking over a hedgerow.
Can we fit a 17-pounder in there? Yeah. Let's do it!
no but we're going to anyways
My personal design and maintenance moto "cut and beat until it fits and drill it to match." 😉
American: "Hold my beer I got this." British: "I say old chap hold my tea and marvel at my deeds."
kenhutchens513 Beer and tea created the p51 also.
😀
Isn’t it put in a certain way as in on it’s side
I was at the museum when they were filming the internal shots of the turret :)
Well done.
Did you get to meet Mr. Fletcher?
Unfortunately not. Another chap that I did not recognise was taking shots for the video. Like I say, they were the internal shots edited in is post production, so only the one chap there and there wasn't an opportunity to sneak into a background shot ;-)
Damn, that would have been outstanding. Still cool tho.
What's your point?
Back to work after two weeks off, feeling blue then my mood lifts after spotting another "Tank Chat" with David Fletcher. Kettle on and 8 mins of tank pleasure
I love Shermans, but the British really made a beast out of an already good tank.
They built a better Sherman than the US did.
@@TheBob3759 Depends on the job assigned to the tank. The regular Sherman was quite good at infantry assault support. The Firefly was much better at fighting other tanks, but wasn't nearly as good as infantry assault due to the limited high explosive ammunition. He even explained this in the video.
What is a great the way to start the morning? With a tank chat of course
or at lunchtime.....hell, any time of the day is a great time for a Tank Chat :D
Vaul the Creator Damn right, I don't even want any hymns at my funeral, 2 or 3 tank chats will much better
+ZB6 uk HAHAHA nice one......oh bugger.....now you've gone and given me ideas XD
I love the smell of tank chat in the morning!
"You can't fit a 17 pounder into a Sherman turret!"
"Hold my Claret."
Churchill:"PUT IT SIDEWAY!"
@@tuongtang8974 hold my scotch
Put the Kettle on, we'll make it fit after a Brew 💪
Everyone likes to think that the German tanks were as huge as houses but just look at Mr. Fletcher next to that thing! He's tiny compared to the Sherman.
Ideed, Sherman's hull height is quite abominable in that regard.
You know,with all his outstanding qualities,Mr. Flethcer isn't exactly a tall man.
You say that, but have you ever stood next to a Royal Tiger? I have...and they're MASSIVE!
Bence Juhász I know he's not the tallest gent on the block, that's rather apperant but I doubt even David Willie would stand much taller than the hull. The Sherman's massive and while not certainly King Tiger or Jagdtiger massive, I'd say they stack up to a Tiger I or a Panther.
Last year we visited the Munster Tank Museum. There, I saw the first time ever WW 2 tanks. I understood then, why the Panther was designated as heavy tank. Even the Achilles was a huge vehicle, the Tiger II was like a barn, and they didn't have a Jagdtiger. But the most suprising size for me was the Hetzer, how low was that, and the Jagdpanther, which was almost the same height, as the Tiger. So yes, these machines are HUGE.
Mr fletcher and a firefly... awesome
Stunning machine! The British definitely overhauled her! I'm just back from Bovington this week it was great! I bought a few model kit's and got this one from RYE field model's to build! Doing the Sherman Jumbo on white wash just now can't wait to start my firefly!
I bought the AFV club model David Fletcher favourite rota trailer lol
Sir 17-pounder won’t fit!
Put it in sideways
Radio won’t fit!
Cut a hole in the back an have it stick out the back
Engine’s no good!
Get 5 car engines and put em together
found it
th-cam.com/video/TFJ_YqnlElY/w-d-xo.html
In my opinion they should have made a bigger turret for it, but you adapt and overcome lol!
That is what the US did for their 76mm gun Shermans. The 76mm Shermans was installed in a much larger turrent then the earlier 75 75mm Shermans.
The Firefly was installed in the smaller 75mm turrents and when tested by the US Army, the Army rejected it as to cramped for the crew.
Please note the US 76mm gun was considered as good as the 17 pounder of the firefly, if given top end anti armor ammunition. The problem was US WWII doctrine reserved such ammo to tank destroyers not tanks. Thus during WWII the Firefly Sherman was considered better then the 76mm Shermans, but in Korea, where the 76 mm Shermans received the high end anti tank ammo, was considered as good as any other tank in a tank to tank fight.
Paul Mentzer hr
the ussr just put in a bigger turret why did'nt they just do that
You would not believe your eyes if ten million Sherman fireflies light up the world as I fell asleep
Lol good one thats what the tiger and panthers tanks would sing lol
I would be very scared for several reasons chief amount at those being that would be more Firefly's then the number of men in the U.S Army. Which would mean reality is breaking apart
Yes. I'm sure you would hear them coming too.
According to David Render in his book, the blast of the gun was so powerful that the tank commander actually had to dive in the turret at every shot to avoid harm.
David Fletcher - consummate master of the understatement. Wonderful!
A great way to start a morning
If I go to the UK, this is the first place I will visit
The first place you visit will probably be the airport.
Aus Explorer
I can teleport, I don't need to travel by aircraft
i live 1hr from bovington, do u think i should go by myself? would y/?
Imperial War Museum. Bovington, the RAF one, Porthmouth.....
@@gewizz2 YES, Just Go!
Always bothered me that in the movie Kelly's Heroes the tank commander character 'Oddball' bolted a length of steel pipe onto his Sherman's regular sized cannon to make it look like a Firefly. He claimed he did it to scare the Germans when in fact what he was really doing was making himself more of a target.
It wasn't to mimic the firefly it was to make it look like a 76mm instead of the 75mm as the 76 was a longer gun. And the firefly did scare the Germans as they knew it could knock them out easily hence why they targeted them first
Joshua Ngau Ajang pretty much lol
Not a firefly. More like a normal longer barreled 75 which the US managed to stick on after. And yeah that always worked the wrong way around didnt it xD
Well it is Oddball.
It's not so crazy when you remember that he also like to blast music while shooting paint projectiles at the enemy lol
that was a Great film.. loved the ending. .. 💰
My father's older brother my Uncle Cliff, was a sergeant in one of these in the war. And yes, he did survive the war, and died aged 99, and 20 days short of his 100th.
I AM SURE WE ALL WANTED THAT USELESS INFORMATION
@@williamredfern5504 Well, it's far more relevant and humane than your miserable contribution. William, william you were really nothing.......
God bless him, a more noble age and one of heroes, glad he had a long life
Good show, thank you uncle cliff.
God bless uncle Cliff ,he and others like my uncles made sure we are free today cuz of they're sacrifices. 👍🇬🇧🇺🇲
I like David Flatcher. Can watch him for hours. Another great Video. Thx and greetings from Germany :)
The Chieftain got into the turret of a Firefly and could barely fit into the gunner's position. (The look on his face was priceless!) It's a pity David Fletcher didn't give it a try. He looks to be about the same size as Joe Ekins, the most famous Firefly gunner. I can't help but believe crewman size was what determined who would be the Firefly's gunner!
This is the stuff that should be on the internet more : facts, presented by people who research and know the facts, without any form of sensationalism.
Very true plus Bovington is an amazing place run by incredible people
I love how the british decided to call the more powerful version of the Sherman something as unthreatening as 'Firefly'
Widow Peak a wolf in sheep's clothing
Read somewhere that the Firefly was never referred to as a 'Firefly' in WW11 and the name came after the war.
The term Firefly was actually the code name for all their 17 pdr armed vehicle prototypes, the official term used in WW2 for these tanks was the Sherman 17pdr
They were called Sherman VC or Sherman IC during the war. Firefly was either an nickname due to the flash of the 17 pounder or a code of the project.
Firefly was a nickname due to the incredible muzzle flash of the 17 pdr.
I was gonna sleep, but damn it David, I'll watch one more video.
A tank chat on my birthday ! Thanks tank museum !
Well, for what it's worth, happy birthday to you!
thanks very much chap!
"It had to get the first shot in and destroy the enemy tank before the enemy tank fired at *it*; Just to make it a bit more exciting for them" I can really never be quite sure how self-aware David Fletcher MBE is of how hilarious his commentary is.
ZombieM0ses he knew what he was saying lol
That's the humor of the British isles.
Mr Fletcher is a freaking legend. love this man. thank you so much!
"To make it more exciting for them" :D
Thank you for another awesome video in this series :)
A decent enough stopgap. Could of been better but there was a war on and we needed it yesterday.
Tank so gangster even IT holds it's gun sideways
I absolutely adore this channel, the videos are top top quality and the presenters are an eternal fountain of armoured vehicle knowledge which EVERYONE should listen to.
Brilliant work fellas, I love the content!!🇬🇧✌️
Excellent in every aspect . These videos are jewels .
David Fletcher all the way. He is brilliant.
this series of videos is just about my favorite thing on youtube .
No idea how I ended up here, but the David Attenborough of tanks seems to be a very knowledgeable well presented gentleman, who's very informative and interesting to watch! Well done sir!!
"A reliable Chrysler engine", you don't hear that every day?
Pfsif in fact it's so reliable that a Germany tank had to knock it out ... so how likely would-be for a Chrysler car to be knocked out by a German tank..
The british worked with chrysler to make it more reliable than the standard chrysler multibank engine and apparently the modified engine was the most reliable Sherman engine of the war. I think it's mentioned in one of the ChieftainWoT's videos.
What, more reliable than the Ford GAA V8?!
Old Chrysler V8s are quite reliable. It's the rest of the cars that tend to be the problem.
+Pfsif Well, to be fair there was a lot of redundancy what with 6 of 'em bolted together ;)
They don't like it up them Captain Mainwaring. Reminds me so much of Corporal Jones from Dads Army.
Oh God I miss Dad's Army....funny stuff.
Same, but the recent movie was very lame. Can't replace the original actors.
Arthur Lowe was very good at his role.
Fascinating information as ever. I hope he explains Challenger soon that, was the upgraded Cromwell 17Pounder, making the tank very tall. It was used in Normandy it will be interesting to know how it got on. The firefly was the better compromise though very tight in side. The commonwealth forces understood they needed something to combat the cats during 1944, until comet and Centurion arrived. The ordnance department let the US armour force down, they had to struggle on until the 90mm M36 and Pershing arrived late 44 early 45. The controversy that dogged the Firefly 74 years ago is alive to day a pragmatic solution to a significant problem. However, the most important factor is those guys in the tank. It provided a major psychological boost to the Commonwealth Allied forces, Montgomery quoted they love it, they did make around 2100 of them and the German Army went after it first. Psychologically, what do you prefer, alive in an uncomfortable tank, or a casualty in a comfortable tank. The US armoured divisions had 54,872 casualties in the European theatre, total fatal 11,566 of which 9,559 in action.the controversial question how many could have been saved with Firefly? Refer, Battle casualties by theater, organization, type, and disposition:
7 December 1941-31 December 1946.
loved this as with the other Tank Chats but would always like more. The Chrysler multibank engine sounds interesting too so will have to learn more about it. Thanks for Tank Chats, they are appreciated.
What a Legend...and that tank is pretty good too...
I can't work out why is there a Dislike button shown for any of David Fletcher videos, it's redundant and will never be used, the man is priceless!
If this guy would talk about peeling potatoes, I would listen. What a LEGEND!
The spuds would be peeled to a 76.4mm cylnder, then chopped off at one end, with curvy point at the other. Bake for 8 hours. Who would eat that, Wittman! Diliveroo done right,no need to answer the door.
I love that guy. He is the typical grandfather knows lots of interesting things! :)
Simple: I liked before I even watched the video
the firefly looks absolutely beautiful, there's one as a monument near where i live.
The flash when the 17pdr was fired was so fearsome that not only did it give the Fireflies' position away to the Germans, but it would also temporarily blind the firefly crew and even singe the commander's eyebrows if he failed to duck inside the turret! Crews quickly learned to close their eyes when the gun was fired and then immediately pull back into cover to avoid return fire.
Initially there were only enough fireflies to provide one per troop, so they tended to be used in overwatch positions while the other 3 Sherman's roved forward; if the 75mm armed Sherman's ran into a German tank they couldn't deal with, then the firefly would be called to take out the German tank.
Eventually there were enough fireflies available to provide 2 per troop. After doing nothing but find fault with the firefly before D-Day the Americans did eventually request to be supplied with fireflies but the British were short of both fireflies and 17pdr ammunition, so couldn't comply
Grev A the gun would also set any nearby foliage on fire, hence the nickname
Ultimate irony is the 76mm armed M4s where sitting in Britain available but not brought over due to logistical concerns and the feeling the 75mm would be sufficient, which it was 99% of the time. Since tanks spent most of their combat time supporting infantry, something most forget.
76mm M4s where in so many respects superior to the Firefly. But the Firefly was the one that was actually there when it was needed and that's what gives you fame.
The 76mm M4 could not touch the Fireflys Penetrative power my friend.
DRAGON TECH not all about penetrative power. The 76 had a better HE round, as well as APHE available whereas the 17pdr was solid shot or sabot
Say that when your staring a Tiger in the face. The Firefly was brought about for a very specific role, to give the Tank units Front line ability to kill big cats, and at that it excelled .
Love this series. It's an excellent format and very informative. Thanks for the new one, because i've seen them all! Mr. Fletcher does excellent work and is a great presenter. I hope he conducts tours at the museum and that i get to meet him some day.
The Firefly is kind of like that Big Brother you have when you're getting bullied at School. You're the Normal Sherman and the Bully is the Tiger... No wonder most Tankers called Firefly crews "Charlie."
DuckSwagington most tigers died that encountered shermans but ok
Geoff Rey >most
>Sherman's only encountered 3
>The americans only encountered 3. The british faced all of those that were in normandy and there were more than 100 tigers there. Even in tunisia the british faced the bulk of them, with the germans losing 19 tigers in one day to the british first army in operation ochsenkopff.
jorelemes yeah that's it.
can i have a link to your source for that? i would like to read up on it.
A great man gives great talks about great tanks!On top of all the other fantastic things here, they find some awesome WW2 images and footage I've never seen.
Glad to see you have moved the credit to the patreons to the end. Having them flash on screen during the lecture was distracting. Thank you.
I love the Firefly, it's a amazing tank and very unique.
Thanks for yet another very interesting video!
This is yet another exmple of a very good characteristic of the Sherman. It was how well it could be converted to other variants. Just think of it. The Shermans itself used four guns. 75mm, 76mm, 105mm and the 17pdr. Also, the M10 and M36 TD-s with 3-inch and 90-mm guns were based on the Sherman chassis. Also, they built so many specialized vehicles on the Sherman. The Duplex Drive amphibious tank, the Crab mine-clearer, the M32 ARV.
What other tank of WWII era was so flexible?
The Panzer III also had 4 guns on the tank variants and of course,the Sturmgeschütz III assault gun/tank hunter also got 3 guns.Or 4 guns,if I count the Sturmpanzer II/StuG III hybrid and the Sturmpanzer III.And also had multiple specialized vehicles.
By the way the Sherman had got two variants with the 90 mm M3 on standard hulls.One with an M26 turret(2 specimens were manufactured if I remember correctly),and the M36B1 which has an M4A3 hull.
The only tanks that give it a run for the money are both "only just" WW2 tanks, The M26 and Centurion, both of which would have long lives although the M26 technically becomes the M46/48 later. In terms of so many variants in such a short space of time, nothing matches the Sherman really.
The Churchill is definitely at least as flexible. 2-Pounder, two different 3-inch howitzers, 6-Pounder, M4's 75mm, QF 75mm, Flamethrowers, 295mm Spigot Mortar, 17-Pounder, large amounts of uparmouring, mine clearers, bridging systems, Ark models, APC variants, hull mounted large guns, tank destroyer variants...absolutely endless combat engineering variants.
Western Allies sure did understand the need for flexibility.
You missed the 95 mm howitzer(just trolling,but you missed it).
Retrosicotte Good point on Churchill - Doh!
Got your little book on the Firefly mr Fletcher. My fave WW2 Tank with the Panther.
War Thunder has messed up my sense of tank sizes. I never imagined Shermans to be this huge, David looks quite tiny next to it
As a Yankee, the Firefly is one of my favorites tanks. British POUNDER oow baby!
The tank wouldn’t be possible without the ‘Yankee.’
It occurs to me that if you were a German crew member of a towed anti-tank gun (rather than in an armoured vehicle) then the 75 mm Sherman was more of a threat to you, because it could blow you to bits with a high explosive round?
I think a high explosive and an armor penetrating round were equally bad news to a towed gun. Maybe more casualties with a high explosive round. But shrapnel from an AP would be bad too.
@@kpd3308 But a shell with a bigger bursting charge would have a bigger radius around the point of impact for killing you, whereas an a.p. round would need to be exactly on target to kill.
From what I've read, the original 75mm gun was preferred for infantry support. Its HE round really was a better round to use against softer targets. Which is, of course, what it's original purpose was. Early US doctrine was that tanks would support the infantry and towed AT guns and tank destroyers would take on the panzers.
Extremely interesting and very well presented. Thank you for the upload.
When it comes to asthetics, the 17-pounder is my favourite gun of ww2. Panthers Kwk-42 comes close but 17-pounder is still the sexiest.
The gun was a true whopper.👌🏼
Agree with you there
Good job, David! (As always!) Excellent research... your videos never get boring! Thanks and keep up the good work......
A crewman on this after a normal Sherman must've thought "right fritz! Time for you to get yours!!!"
Nice video. Thanks David. That tank is much larger than I thought it was.
The 17pdr on my Dad's tank got stuck into the side of a ditch or gulley. They had some of the crew from another disabled Sherman crammed into the turret. It was pitch dark and when dad pulled forward the tank went down into the gulley, forced the gun back and ejected a round onto the lap of one of the "passengers"...Austin Baker. (From his wartime diary with the 4/7 RDG. The length of the barrel could certainly pose problems at times, hence the gun cradle on the side of the rear deck.....when out of the line That is !
Hey i remember him from a tv show called: Junk Yard Wars👍
2:12 Being hit on the weld _"didn't do it any good"_. Love it.
Must have been poorly welded because a quality weld is as strong as the parent metals.
Great video , I live near and have visited slapton sands many times in commemoration of operation/exercise tiger tragedy of ww2. Great to learn more about the firefly and Sherman m4, thanks
I didnt know Albert Einstien was a tank expert.
The Firefly was the first tank I fell in love with from World War II, certainly from a tabletop gamer perspective. My German opponents, not so much.
British Sherman best Sherman
Laughs in 76mm M4A3E2
My grandfather was REME, attached to Guards Armoured Division, I understand he supported Sherman Fireflies while they trained before D Day. Thinking of coming over for a look next week.
David Fletcher for PM 👍🏻
My wifes great grand father was a legend he fought on d-day in a donald duck tank then when they built the firefly he got upgraded! Peter ewert of the 1st hussars absolute legend!!
7:40
Sherman Easy 8: Am I a joke to you?
Sherman 76 was a much better tank to fight in, it was however both the easy 6 and easy 8 versions that had it
Thank you for the great video in detail and changes made compared with the US Sherman. Keep up the good work!
Sherman is a lot bigger than I thought.
Yeah - I remember the first time one drove past me at a show. I thought 'my god that's an excessively big tank for what it can do'. Then they put a 17pdr on it and it all makes sense :D
it has a very tall profile. It's actually a tiny bit higher than a king tiger! David is also a small guy.
It was always a very tall yes. Not ideal but it served the Allies’ needs very well.
Well done, David! Greetings from Germany!
A thirty plug engine... it sounds dreadful but it worked very well! Lol
Didn't have the armour of a Panther or Tiger but was more nimble. Also, the Sherman was available in far greater numbers.
Actually the Sherman is really close to the front amour of the tiger 1.
90mm, averaging armor on all different variants of the Shermans, not even mentioning the E2 Jumbo 150mm of effective armor.
"The only Sherman that could knock out any German tank .."
That makes it the best Sherman by a long shot ...no pun intended
I think that quote should be amended to read "From the front or any angle". Wittman's Tiger was taken out by a normal Sherman from the side at under 300m remember?
The best Sherman is a Sherman that got to its battlefield and fight.
wow, i just looked up the chrysler multibank, and it is a BEAST!
www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=112613
Went to my wife's grandmother's for xmas a few years back, it was awful, drinking a scotch I noticed a group photo of a firefly crew in front of their tank with a long long barrel. I sat up and asked who was that, oh that's my late husband he was in Normandy but I never asked him what he did.
You have to love John's dry British humor!
Who's John?
*It’s David mate.
That officer at Lulworth Camp decided to bring all the lulz to the Germans.
This makes me want to do a model tank diorama. Good talk!
The17 pounder Firefly was British, the Americans should have used the 76mm Sherman that was comparable to the Firefly, but failed to do so.
Huh? How did they fail to do so? Tons of later model Shermans had 76's, even the Soviets had 2,000+ 76mm Shermans as lend-lease. Not to mention the M18 Hellcat and the Jumbo Sherman also had the 76mm.
Are you kidding? They only made about 250 fireflys, the US and Canada made thousands of later model shermans with the 76.
@@ironiczombie2530 2,200 fireflys were made.
Ironic Zombie 250 Fireflys, are you mad??
Marten Trudeau they did eventually. They refused to accept the British saying that a 17Pdr would be good, so the British did it to their own Sherman’s. Eventually the US realised that they needed one, but Britain was in a short supply so the US just made their own versions
I've read somewhere that after the war Swedish took some of the Fireflies. On one occasion while on the range one or two 'banks' caught on fire. After extinguishing fire the tank was able to limp back home on remaining engines.
Americans - puts a 76 on a small turret sherman, you can’t figth on it, you don’t have the space.
British- hold my tea, because that fits a 17 pounder
The US made a new larger turrent for its 76mm Shermans, the British put their 17 pounder gun inside the smaller turrent of a 75 75mm Shermans. Being inside that smaller turrent made it a tight fit for the crew, so tight a fit that the US rejected using such Fireflys when offered by the British.
@@paulmentzer7658 The British thought it more imporant to have a tank that could take on the Panther's and Tigers as soon as possible, even if it wasn't perfect. The Firefly was good enough at the time and they preferred not to wait any longer.
The Sherman Firefly is considered the best British tank of WWII.
The one drawback was that it did not have a bow machine gun.
"British tank" ?
@@nickdanger3802 Best tank the British used.
@@nickdanger3802It was a british tank even though the hull is based on us sherman it was upgraded and the turrets also so it was a british
Sir the 17 pounder won't fit!
They didn’t actually just put it in sideways they actually completely redesigned to be more compact
May have been cramped and a had a bit of gun flash in the turret, but it got us through the early stages of France liberation and was a work of art that they got it to fit