Hi there, viewers! An adapted text version of this video is now available on Medium: quotidianwriter.medium.com/writing-tips-for-fixing-overwritten-and-underwritten-prose-d7d735da7eda
I am the posterboy for underwriting. I could easily have pared down that first Fiona/Hector example. Fortunately, the other examples really clarified how I can fix it.
I thought it was gonna be that Hector had a secret child, and that’s why the main character brought up the time he insulted her mother, since this is an even greater insult (cheating on the mom)
I'm an underwriter, and I like reading books that lean that way as well. People give George R.R. Martin a lot of crap for his long winded descriptions, but he can be impressively economical with words when he wants to be: "Jaime scrambled to his feet. "My lady. I had not thought to see you again so soon." Gods be good, she looks ten years older than when I saw her last. And what's happened to her face? "That bandage ... you've been wounded ..." "A bite." She touched the hilt of her sword, the sword that he had given her. Oathkeeper. "My lord, you gave me a quest." "The girl. Have you found her?" "I have," said Brienne, Maid of Tarth. "Where is she?" "A day's ride. I can take you to her, ser ... but you will need to come alone. Elsewise, the Hound will kill her."" - A Dance with Dragons
Me too, and I also prefer underwriting in my books. For me, one of the many reasons is that I learned from movie scripts, where it's just dialog and minimal setting and action details. But also because I come from a background of (non-computer) game design, and much of the plot is assembled like a puzzle, where the feeling and dynamics are where I start from, and only add the mechanics, relationships and details later. And also because I'm an impatient reader, and want my story moving along to its essential components.
I found this very inspiring. Now I'm definitely in the mood for writing... I probably shouldn't have watched it with my morning coffee right before I leave for work.
I simply overwrite to understand the scene and story, and then I condense the overwritten plot elements to a digestible and enjoyable medium. I enjoyed this greatly!
I'm an over writer, I think I like to tell in different ways how a character is feeling but it can come as redundant, I also get really immersed in descriptions to the point that I give examples or comparisons to let clear how is the thing/ feeling I'm describing but again, sometimes is just too much lol
Is it possible to be both?🤣 In terms of depicting a characters emotions, I think I could be leaning more toward over-writing, yet in terms of depicting the environment, I am definitely more prone to under-writing🤣 Anyway, this was a very interesting video that brought on an "Aha!" moment - so thank you for that!🙏😊
This was timely as I just finished underwriting a very important part of a story I'm currently developing. I had a feeling I was underwriting the scene but I didn't want to force in too much detail. Listening to this has given me a few ideas on how I might add the proper amount of frosting so to speak. I may come back to this one. Thanks.
I really like the way you use metaphors frequently to illustrate your points, like the one about the cupcakes. That's an extended metaphor if I'm not mistaken, in other words it's developed throughout the video. I love using metaphors and symbolism in my writing. In one of my short stories which is about 5000 words I have about 8 symbolic references in it.
Great video as usual. For me, the Fever series by Karen Marie Moning is the perfect example of overwriting. A third of each book is endless internal monologing. I always feel like I'm reading the first draft when I read her books. I tend to underwrite in most situations myself.
I don't know why but I felt reading game of thrones there was some overwriting.... Maybe that's just my underwriter self not loving the details of martins writing 😂
The character voices for Fiona and Hector have given me life on this gray morning. Really helpful vid. I think finding *your* balance between over/underwriting is practically the skeleton key to storytelling and style. Which is why it's a constant battle :P
I think you could overwrite and underwrite for artistic expression. But but not in every paragraph! Maybe when someone, might be under stress and not thinking clearly or when they're angry, shocked or scared.
@@lorrismalls4736 Yes, you can def underwrite certain characters vs others for characterization, too. Like, if you have a character whose mind is always wandering (think: Mrs Dalloway by Virginia Wolfe) then you'd write lots of sensory detail & thoughts about the past
This is excellent advice. I always appreciate your videos. Your underwritten example of the Fiona and Hector scene felt familiar. My first drafts seem like that, often containing a lack of sensory details. Yet, as you also acknowledge, it's too simplistic to label our own writing styles as "underwritten" or "overwritten". Most of us do a little of both, whilst perhaps having tendencies in one direction or the other. Thank you for the tips, which are definitely helpful. 😃👍💖💝
Omg thank you so so much for this. I know this is one of your older videos but I am SUCH an overwriter. I was trying for ages to find advice on how to fix this, and I didnt even know the term overwriter existed until now. Again, thank you!!
I have trouble with underwriting most of the time. When I studied journalism in college I was taught to write with as few words as possible. That was over 25 years ago, and now that I'm writing fiction, it feels like I'm constantly underwriting. Thank you for the helpful video.
Good video, I was thinking that in the balanced version she doesn't have to say anything after slapping the letter on his desk. It's obvious it's a letter, it's obvious she is angry, and his reaction could explain he intentionally never showed it to her.
I am heartened to have found you. Your competency in producing good teaching and good teaching videos is extraordinary. Thank you for your buoyancy of delivery. For the help you are giving me. Kudos!!
Thanks again Diane, some good stuff in there. After I'd watched, like, 30 seconds, I suddenly got inspired to write an example. Tell me how I did if you like! Overwriting: If you'll be driving along SH2 from Masterton, heading north, you might experience a much-stated phenomenon. You'll have played car-cricket for a while, considered stopping at the Mount Bruce Wildlife Sanctuary and decided you'd better keep heading on for now. You'll have gotten hungry, (What? You only just had lunch!) and thirsty, and then argued about what music to play in the car before getting annoyed and having to turn the ruddy thing off, (Great! Now neither of us gets what we want!) Silence. You'll be looking at the beautiful scenery. Pastures, trees, streams, rivers, farms - very rustic. Then you'll start to nod off. You'll have felt the car slow down and notice your dad has put the indicator on. "Are we at the turn-off already?" "Yup," he'll have replied. "Hmm. And I didn't even notice us driving through Eketahuna! Rats. We missed Retro-Republic!" Normal: If you're going to be driving north from Masterton, you may be hoping to stop briefly at that second-hand clothing shop in Eketahuna. Keep your eyes peeled - that town just appears out of the countryside, and you'll be through it in a flash." Underwriting: Eketahuna? Blink and you'll miss it! P.s. from your descriptions of how overwriters may feel upon receiving you're-overwriting feedback, I immediately felt defensive! I guess my weakness is much more on the overwriting side of things...
I've been trying to write a book for some time. I gotta thank you for all the information ur channel gave me, and i think i became slightly better at writing 'cause of ur indirect help. Ur channel is one of the few that offers this kind of help and insight, i really appreciatte what you are doing, keep it up! Greetings from Argentina.
Thank you for all your videos! They are actually helpful! And entertaining as well. The examples and your analysis and tips show the hard work you put in! Hope it helps your writing to develop further as well as our's :P
I like a moderate amount of frosting, but I like the light, whipped cream frosting. Simple and light language is far more effective to be than flowery and dense words.
Great advice as always! Thanks for keeping up with the videos. Your advice of taking time off from the drafts always helps a lot to see what can be improved. It would be great if you gave advice on how to create better character voice, believable plot twists that are not predictable and writing mystery or tense scenes. Also I would love for you to make a video like the one you did of Harry Potter and J.K. Rowling but about Stephen King. PS: Sorry for hidding the letter :P
🎉 congratulations on making the comprehensive Kodak camera details,😮it really unfolded all my questions and curiosity if a will be a good prose writer this will only be because of urs kindling knowledge provided in the video in a lovely voice thanks a lot
At first, I thought I was an underwriter. But, as I’m writing my draft as of now, I think I might be both honestly. I underwrite the description of the places my characters are, but just enough so readers would know where they are; and I overwrite when I’m writing the character’s thoughts and emotion, or internal monologue or basically that had to do with the characters. So, I underwrite descriptions; I overwrite emotions. But, in honestly, reading a novel, it’s not about the story, but the characters. I think I read a tip somewhere: Simple story, complex character. So, if you have a compelling and well-developed character, then they could and will carry a bad story. If the characters bad, and the story’s bad, then you can see the readers putting down the book.
To be fair, I probably would've enjoyed it if I'd read it as a kid or teen, when it's easier to look past an author's writing style. I don't dare pick it up now because I know I'll be too critical. Still, it's impressive to me that someone could write a coherent, popular story at such a young age!
Hello, thank you very much for this instructive video. The examples you brought were very demonstrative to me. To answer your question at the end, I am an overwriter, way too much, and I realise it already when I am on my first draft. I tell myself that I am going to fix it at the editing phase. What I am going to focus on during this phase is my ability to balance between telling what the reader needs to know, and in the meantime give him/her all the space needed to picture the scene in its several aspect. I strongly believe that the most appealing aspect of reading is the extended field of imagination at the reader's feet. And I get myself bored when I read my endless showing bad habit flooding down paragraphs after paragraphs. Best regards.
I wasn't sure if I was underwriting at the current stage I'm in, but I realize underwriting is essencial in first drafts. I've killed way too much time trying to perfect certain scenes when I haven't even finished laying out the second half of the story, which would likely lead me to edit these "perfect" scenes yet again.
I'm a natural over-writer who piles details into run-on sentences. I found that pretending to write either hard-boiled or like Ernest Hemingway gets me a nice balance because it tames my dragons. I learned this trick in a pre-Covid IRL writing group, so can't take credit for it, but it works for me. Your mileage may vary.
the writer who i think writes the exact right amount is sharon kay penman. In the sunne in splendor, I dont have to "try" to read it all. I forget I'm reading a book and the words disappear. It's like i'm watching it
Please could you do a video analysisng how to write a story if you are basing it off of a real event, a real person, or something modern. I am thinking about a dystopian all about the problems of social media especially within TH-cam, basing my characters off of of real people and ideas linking to problems of modern TH-cam. But I don't know how to do so without sounding too on the nose of the context, and also if what I am thinking of writing is too much.
That's a fascinating topic! I would label that genre as speculative fiction, similar to the TV show "Black Mirror," which is pretty on the nose about its critiques of social media yet still effective in its message. I've been wanting to make a video on recommended reads for writing that type of fiction, which includes books like "The Circle" by Dave Eggers (basically a satire of Google and social media). That sounds similar to what you're interested in writing. Also check out "Broadcast" by Liam Brown, which is about 24-hour mind streaming and TH-cam. I don't think that topic would be too much to tackle at all. When it comes to writing about real people, I would be careful to invent characters who are clearly different from the real-life figures they're based on, since you wouldn't want to get into legal trouble. You could try writing a short story around that idea first to see if it's worth exploring at book length. Keep writing! :)
I’m definitely an over writer at a sentence level - for some reason, I struggle with trusting the reader and always show a lot more than I need to in terms of sensory details. I personally think showing too much is just as bad as always telling.
Hello. I just found your channel and subbed and turned on the bell. I love the grown approach you take to your videos. Most of the authortube videos I have watched tend to do with Young Adult writing. I'm in the process of watching all your videos and loving all of them. I was hoping you could help me out with something I'm struggling with and that is sex scenes. How much is too much and when is there too little. Thank you for all your videos and for helping us out. Most appreciated.
Thank you so much for your kind words! I try to cover different types of books in all my videos. With sex scenes, it really depends on the genre expectations and the overall tone of the book. If you're writing a fantasy or sci-fi adventure novel, there are usually only "fade-to-black" sex scenes. However, if you're writing a story that's heavier on all types of graphic scenes, including romance and violence, then you're bound to see more explicit sex scenes, like in "A Song of Ice and Fire" or "Outlander." You'll also see heavier sex scenes in literary novels that focus more on realism and portraying the characters' emotions, like Ian McEwan's novels (particularly "On Chesil Beach"). In that case, the reader is reading with the understanding that these characters are being displayed at their most vulnerable and human moments, which can entail the finer details of their sex lives. It's when you have a contrast between the reader's expectations and what's on the page that you run into issues. A romance novel is expected to have some steamy scenes, and it's disappointing when it doesn't. A random, detailed sex scene in a fast-paced action novel is going to feel out of place. Generally, I’d say you want enough emotion-packed language to make the readers feel what the characters are feeling but without the more clinical details of the mechanics, since that tends to gross people out (like using the words “moist” or “penetrated”). More importantly, make sure the sex scene serves a purpose. How does it provide a deeper understanding of the characters? What does it reveal about the power dynamic or conflicts in their relationship? How does it change the direction of the story? The make-up sex scene from “Their Eyes Were Watching God” by Zora Neale Hurston is tame while also expressing the intensity of feeling: “They wrestled on until they were doped with their own fumes and emanations; till their clothes had been torn away; till he hurled her to the floor and held her there melting her resistance with the heat of his body, doing things with their bodies to express the inexpressible; kissed her until she arched her body to meet him and they fell asleep in sweet exhaustion." It definitely helps to ask other writers to read your stories and evaluate whether or not the explicitness of the scene works. You can also read examples of the “best of” and “worst of” sex scenes, but don’t be surprised when you find that items on the two lists overlap, haha. Keep writing! :) “50 Incredibly Written Sex Scenes in Books”: thejohnfox.com/sex-scenes-in-books/ “Literary Review’s Bad Sex in Fiction Award”: literaryreview.co.uk/bad-sex-in-fiction-award
@@QuotidianWriter I want to thank you for replying with such a well thought out and detailed response. Not a lot of AuthorTubers do that. You can't know what responses like this can do to help those of us new to the writing field. The funny thing is as I was reading it, I heard you. That's an amazing thing to make it seem like you're talking directly to me. Thank you for that. For the tone of my book sex is a major component. It's not a porn story by any means, rather, the sex informs who my characters are in whatever form that is. I'm certainly not going for an EL James effect. God no! Nor am I going for a Marquis de Sade tone either. I have three characters who are my three main for the story. They are synergistic in the business world as well as their private lives. The three of them are together in everything, which makes them a force to be reckoned with. So I guess the mode I'm going for is more along the lines of realism I've ordered almost all of McEwan's books and plan on digging into them voraciously. I think this might be the tone I'm looking for. Certainly less than George R. R. Martin who sort of makes his sex scenes more ritualistic in nature. It's the emotion I'm looking for. My main female character has been raped by her father and does not in any way feel a victim. In fact the opposite and the two men she's with is sort of her triumph in light of her father's treatment. I'm hoping I can find something to "feel" in terms of McEwan's writing. I'm hoping after I get my first draft done I can get some beta readers involved to see if I'm going awry or keeping it real. LOL!!! Once again Diane (I'm with two 'ns') for your help and for taking the time to answer my question. I'm looking forward to your further videos and love your channel. Take care.
I'm so glad I could be of help! I enjoy having opportunities to articulate my thoughts on different writing topics, as it helps me hone my own skills. For me, that's a big plus to having this channel. :) That dynamic you described should make for an interesting story, especially with the overlap between the business world and the bedroom. It sounds like sex is a core aspect of the characters' identities and reveals a lot about how they interact with others. I wish that more literary novels delved into the complicated nature of sexuality and sexual relationships (particularly positive ones, even if there's conflict). "On Chesil Beach" is one of those books where the plot is explicitly *about* sex, specifically the character's aversion to sex, so that's part of the reason the descriptions are more detailed. I hope that Ian McEwan's work provides some insight into what you want to do in your own work. Thank you for your comments, Dianne. Keep writing! :)
It's all a matter of tastes. Some readers prefer less dense prose and others enjoy lots of detail! I was trying to write poorly, but apparently it wasn't bad enough, haha.
'Little fires everywhere' extract was exactly the kind of writing I really dislike....tiresome. Tried to read it but hated it..yet I love Nabokov, with his huge descriptions of almost nothing.
What a yawnfest followed by bunch of self-congratulatory "writers" patting each others back. Sheesh. If you are overwrite, you overwrite. If you underwrite, underwrite, fine. Find your strength and outlet and maximize it! As simple as that. Writing is an art and a form of self-expression. Genius cannot be "taught" nor imparted. This idea that everyone must somehow tone themselves down or rather buff their writing up with just the "prim" and "proper" dosage is absolutely risible. It is akin to expecting everyone should "live up to" some imaginary facial standard. Hahahahahaahaha. Find what are you good at. Express yourself. And never compromise the core of your soul and being just to fit some "mould".
Making a video about over/underwriting and then spending two minutes on an analogy about cakes to explain it...really? This video should have been ten minutes long. It reminds of when you go to check a recipe and they spend the entire text telling you why you should like this recipe. Just. Get. To. The. Recipe.
I'm a severe underwriter, but it's more intentional than not. I've always had issues with holding passion for one story at a time and always got sidetracked when writing first drafts, so nowadays I solely focus on word count for that first draft and getting the story on the page. Then, when rewriting comes around, even though it takes much longer, it feels less daunting and I can have more fun with it. I think it was Hemingway who said "The only kind of writing is rewriting."
Dude, I've got like 37 different Google docks files saved, each is a different story. I pick whichever one I'm in the mood for and they are all progressing together. I'm the type to dive in the dark (didn't plot a single thing 💀) so I'm testing to see which one will stick.
Me too, being an underwriter of the first draft in most scenes. For me, one of the many reasons is that I learned from movie scripts, where it's just dialog and minimal setting and action details. But also because I come from a background of (non-computer) game design, and much of the plot is assembled like a puzzle, where the feeling and dynamics are where I start from, and only add the mechanics, relationships and details later. And also because I'm an impatient reader, and want my story moving along to its essential components.
@@tsu2155 and I thought I was the only one with this problem. I kinda dropped the whole thing some Years ago believing I get distracted too easily or simply not cut out for writing. I have strange problem for stumping around 15-16 pages for whatever I write. Then it's complete blank.
These videos are so astoundingly good! I'm not much of a comment writer, but I just wanted to take the time to thank you for these. The lessons, the editing, commentary, production value, etc. are all golden. You deserve so many more thousands of views and subscribers. I truly believe you'll get there some day with this kind of quality. Thank you :)
@@QuotidianWriter Firstly , I was disappointed when you said this video will focus on " Cupcakes and not the whole bakery " . I'm likely to be guilty of *BOTH* underwriting of scenery and of plot 😓. I understand that you've got only a certain amount of finite time to make your videos & with more topics to cover in them , you risk the chance that *NOBODY* will watch any of your videos { if they're too long } . I'm afraid { so to speak 😳 } of when starting my story { of } plagiarizing the style of the other writers when you have shown me those paragraphs 😕 . If we talking about cupcakes { for real } I don't like frosting at all . I'm not much of a reader either & don't like thick heavy wording of narrative and scenes. A story rich in character status and diversity , I love 🥰📖 though. The last reading in this video i found perfect 💯%. 👨⚖️🇦🇺🇳🇴 ▶️👍
Under: "Will this really work?" asked her son. "Shh," said the mother, laying one tea bag, then another over each eye. The clock down stairs struck nine. A kiss to the head. "I'll be back in five minutes. No touching." Over: In Nebraska last year. "Will this really work?" asked her son of fifteen, pimply, scarred, eyes closed and burning, burning with allergies. "Shh," said the mother, laying a sopping wet, room warm bag of black tea purchased that morning on accident at the corner store, then another bag, some the same box bought accidentally, it's yellow label a symbol of how a little home remedy can go a long way. Suddenly, from one floor down, the ringing peals and gear turning of a wooden clock gifted on her wedding day struck with one hand pointed west and another north. That means nine, thought the mother, nine sharp to be precise. Her favorite tv show would start. But look at him, so grown up, so upset at the world. Just one little kiss. And she planted it on his forehead, imaging for a second he were not fifteen but five again, back when his father, meaning her husband, was alive, able to teach him things, but now? "I'll be back in five minutes," she said, looking at her watch, when the ringing and the peals died down. "No touching." The son took her words to mean so many things, as she stepped out the door, and left him alone. Just right: "Will this work?" asked her son, at an age where everything his mother did annoyed him, yet she was still capable of magic. "Shh," she said, laying one sopping wet bag of black tea over one eye, then a second over the other. Where there had been clear tears, there were now brown ones streaming, soothing. "I'm back in five," she said, shaking her wrist watch, and kissing the only boy in her life on the forehead. "No touching."
I honestly agree with you - I thought the "over-written" version sounded pretty good. It needed 2 or 3 edits to the sentences that described a character's motions in melodramatic body movements & cliches, but other than that, it'd be considered a better 1st draft
I am a very VERY big underwriter, and honestly, even that example felt good written for me. I do have a habit of getting the reader completely stuck in a character's thoughts sometimes, but I'm yet to learn how to write, because I genuinely enjoy it! This video was very insightful, Thank you.
Underwriter here. I actually had a scene where there should have been a lot more dialogue, but, well... here's what I did... Yoshi looked up, but unsure what to say, she looked back down at the files. After some time of inane bantering with an extremely patient Yuna, she looked towards the Space Master.
When it comes to setting descriptions, I'm a chronic underwriter. My brain naturally focuses on action and dialogue over description. The best technique I've found to fix it is in editing. I get to a description I need to expand and find an ambience track for a similar location. There are tons out there for every location, thanks to tabletop roleplaying becoming so popular. Then I sit back, close my eyes to let the ambience build the scene in my mind and add the new elements to the (bare bones) description that's already there.
You had me at cupcake!😜 What an ingenious device to help writers distinguish between what they desire, versus what is necessary! Usually, when I see this topic tackled it feels like one is suffering through a Latin grammar class. It is example after example of technically correct writing and nothing more. But your videos are so beautifully conceived and executed, Diane! They are deeply engaging on both intellectual and emotional levels. Your gift for laying bare the problems we writers are having and for offering applicable, engaging solutions is top-notch. Thank you for making this, and all of your other videos. As a massive overwriter, I will be referring to this video over and over again.
You have to have a lot of patience writing a book. I'd rather be a chef preparing Fugu some days! Lol. Even when you're naturally good at storytelling, it's still going to take skill to execute everything you say. I wish everyone the best on their endeavors. It's not easy. I could just picture that tasty cupcake with the right amount of lemon frosting. So I clicked subscribe!!!
Literally editing is so hard for me...how did she say it? "Emotionally attached" That's exactly how I feel towards almost everything that's fresh in the paper, that I wrote in one go (and that I enjoyed writting). The worst comes when I have deadlines...it's not about letting go. It's about letting go FAST.
This exactly captures my problem. I am a crazy overwriter. Knowing what and where to kill your darlings is my issue. I want to edit down, but struggle to convince myself that the stripped down version has enough creative heft and momentum. And once/if I find the story or my own writing uninspired, I abandon or just bin the story altogether. Then I repeat the same madness all over again.
I think I'm initially likely to overwrite, as a means of clarifying in my own mind what I want to say, and then trim. Possibly this marks me out as a rookie!
As long as the cupcake is chocolate... One question I have; in all three drafts, are you trying to convey what Fiona thinks of her father, or to the reader that the father is actually a jerk?
Good question! My intentions shifted across drafts, but I felt their interactions were more interesting when Hector was an outright villain. In the latter two drafts, her father is objectively a jerk, but the first one is more Fiona *thinking* her father is a jerk. However, a writer could definitely make it more ambiguous by revealing Fiona's judgments without the examples of what her father has done wrong before. That would show the reader how Fiona is feeling without giving evidence that backs up the idea that her father is a jerk. Thanks for watching! :)
I’m writing middle grade fantasy fiction so I feel my final draft should err on the side of underwriting, but balancing that out with relevant world building. I lose focus and my attention wanders easily when I read overwriting. I’m slogging through a middle grade fantasy that had one action scene take me 10+ minutes to read and it was way too descriptive that I almost stopped caring for the characters 😩! Also, I feel horrible for saying I don’t have the patience for Pride & Prejudice!
I’m an over writer because I over analyze plot and hyper focus on stuff and I fix this problem by reading over every line and deciding what isn’t necessary by asking myself, is it telling and not showing? Is it redundant? Is it important to the ending? Is it interesting?
I was taught to "choose a side of the road" meaning if your comfortable underwriting underwrite if you overwrite .. overwrite...I am an overwriter so the rule for me is "shorten tighten and intensify"...so I begin were I need to sometimes "no exposition" and we're off to the races..go and get it alllll out of your system... then "push-in" were you need to shorten what's boring and unnecessary and intensify... sometimes that's details sometimes it's the subplot twist that's gonna kick you in the teeth my nasty trick is everything is repeated in threes subplot twist that influences story context stated twice🤭🤭🤭 once mentioned is to fast and the reader misses it and feels dirty tricked and most people who get to read my stuff love the creative details and rhythm 🤷they like the lengthy detail 🤷
I prefer the cake with too much frosting, both literally and figuratively. :D Also, I'm an overwriter. And I like to read books with nice and detailed descriptions, as long as they're not of totally pointless or meaningless things. Like, exactly what type of flowers are growing on the plain the heroes are just passing by... (I'm looking at you Tolkien!)
I was told I rushed the end of a short story, a section that took me literal months to untangle. I promise, I hadn't rushed. I was just exhausted but the continuity problems. When I returned to it after the constructive criticism, the section became bloated, like a puffer fish defending itself from attack... I'm doing it again. I'm overwriting. Make it stop!
Thank you. I write nonfiction, but I think you've shared some principles that will help me. I'm in the process of re-wrting my third book. This video will be playing in the back of my mind as I work.
I actually think most elaborate, purple prose is good. Shakespeare and Victor Hugo are purple prose, so are many of the greats. Writers say it's bad as an excuse because they cannot write beautifully.
I would posit that "purple prose" has its place. It can work really well for the feeling you intend, BUT only if it still flows as it's been written and presented. That's difficult. When it doesn't flow really well, it reads as clunky exposition and tells far more than it shows. Elaborate words with multiple syllables can bog most readers down, and let's be honest, with the advent of "smart technology" people are losing their edge in the intelligence game. We're in a world that rewards a lack of attention span as if it's a virtue, and damns anyone with the focus to spend longer than a few seconds on nearly any subject. Allen Watts once pointed out (I believe back in the 50's or maybe 60's) that "We're in such a hurry to get things finished, that we finish things that weren't worth doing, because they were done so fast." I don't think society in general is improving on that observation. On the (very slightly) other hand, one should also relax a bit. You don't have to write an important book every time you put pen to paper (or finger to keyboard). Stephen King has written a veritable mountain of less than inspiring stories... from demonic cars to the stories witnessed by a cat. Those weren't "important" in any stretch of the word. Only fun to read through. Maybe, then, complicated scenarios, full of intricately developed scenery and immersive descriptions and all the trimmings of fantastical settings and beauty might be great, but it's a niche market. Understanding that going in, then a writer could budget the time for a "labor of love" purely for the sake of crafting the work, rather than an interest in getting the fullest returns for his/her time. ;o)
There's a lot more terrible purple prose written by hacks than great purple prose written by Shakespeare. If you're Henry James, then go for it, but you're probably not.
Shakespeare isn't even prose -- I'd push back against the notion that his writing could be defined as "purple prose" (even dropping that technicality) because the better stuff of his is practically defined by it's masterful -- wholeness. There's no excess slapped in there just to sound pretty or show off his chops (again, in his better works). The medium he's working in provides enough constraint to keep him from that. That being said, while I can't speak to Hugo there definitely are writers who dip into purple prose masterfully. Being honest, they tend to be my favorite! So I don't disagree with the premise of your comment -- personally I read primarily for the language, rather than the plot or character, so I love well executed "purple prose."
There is no Shakespearean prose. As for his writing style, it changes drastically during his career, but I don't really agree it can ever be called purple. Lurid and tacky, sometimes. Knotty and overly complicated, at times. Stunning in its simplicity and concision, often. Ornate and finely wrought, often. But none of that is the same as purple. The greatest purple prose I can think of is Mervyn Peake in his first two Gormenghast books. It's the apotheosis of purple!
On the one hand, I like no frosting. Up my arm, across my chest, and down again, placed upon the other hand resides a highly specialized cupcake with frosting akin to my simplest descriptions of the finest details pertaining to inconsequential elements within any given span of text are as a doctoral dissertation competing to solidify my complex philosophical point of reference, which persists in its elaboration even well after my fiftieth reduction of the carefully crafted proposal.
Hi there, viewers! An adapted text version of this video is now available on Medium: quotidianwriter.medium.com/writing-tips-for-fixing-overwritten-and-underwritten-prose-d7d735da7eda
I am the posterboy for underwriting. I could easily have pared down that first Fiona/Hector example. Fortunately, the other examples really clarified how I can fix it.
WHAT? *YOU* DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT'S IN THE LETTER? You're killing me right now.
Same tbh
Me, too. I really want to know now. But that's the point, isn't it? To hook the reader into wanting more.
I thought it was gonna be that Hector had a secret child, and that’s why the main character brought up the time he insulted her mother, since this is an even greater insult (cheating on the mom)
I'm an underwriter, and I like reading books that lean that way as well.
People give George R.R. Martin a lot of crap for his long winded descriptions, but he can be impressively economical with words when he wants to be:
"Jaime scrambled to his feet. "My lady. I had not thought to see you again so soon." Gods be good, she looks ten years older than when I saw her last. And what's happened to her face? "That bandage ... you've been wounded ..."
"A bite." She touched the hilt of her sword, the sword that he had given her. Oathkeeper. "My lord, you gave me a quest."
"The girl. Have you found her?"
"I have," said Brienne, Maid of Tarth. "Where is she?"
"A day's ride. I can take you to her, ser ... but you will need to come alone. Elsewise, the Hound will kill her."" - A Dance with Dragons
Me too, and I also prefer underwriting in my books. For me, one of the many reasons is that I learned from movie scripts, where it's just dialog and minimal setting and action details. But also because I come from a background of (non-computer) game design, and much of the plot is assembled like a puzzle, where the feeling and dynamics are where I start from, and only add the mechanics, relationships and details later. And also because I'm an impatient reader, and want my story moving along to its essential components.
I found this very inspiring. Now I'm definitely in the mood for writing... I probably shouldn't have watched it with my morning coffee right before I leave for work.
I simply overwrite to understand the scene and story, and then I condense the overwritten plot elements to a digestible and enjoyable medium. I enjoyed this greatly!
I kinda use the same tactic. Just get all the shit down and condense it.
Mister Pete knew I wasn’t the only one.
You're the only TH-camr I bothered to press the bell icon for. Thank you for all this.
I'm an over writer, I think I like to tell in different ways how a character is feeling but it can come as redundant, I also get really immersed in descriptions to the point that I give examples or comparisons to let clear how is the thing/ feeling I'm describing but again, sometimes is just too much lol
hi somnie
Is it possible to be both?🤣
In terms of depicting a characters emotions, I think I could be leaning more toward over-writing, yet in terms of depicting the environment, I am definitely more prone to under-writing🤣
Anyway, this was a very interesting video that brought on an "Aha!" moment - so thank you for that!🙏😊
Ahhh! I suck at describing settings soo bad! Can't wait to fix all that up during revising 😅 ... So underwriter for sure.
This was timely as I just finished underwriting a very important part of a story I'm currently developing. I had a feeling I was underwriting the scene but I didn't want to force in too much detail. Listening to this has given me a few ideas on how I might add the proper amount of frosting so to speak. I may come back to this one. Thanks.
I really like the way you use metaphors frequently to illustrate your points, like the one about the cupcakes. That's an extended metaphor if I'm not mistaken, in other words it's developed throughout the video. I love using metaphors and symbolism in my writing. In one of my short stories which is about 5000 words I have about 8 symbolic references in it.
Great video as usual. For me, the Fever series by Karen Marie Moning is the perfect example of overwriting. A third of each book is endless internal monologing. I always feel like I'm reading the first draft when I read her books. I tend to underwrite in most situations myself.
I don't know why but I felt reading game of thrones there was some overwriting.... Maybe that's just my underwriter self not loving the details of martins writing 😂
The character voices for Fiona and Hector have given me life on this gray morning.
Really helpful vid. I think finding *your* balance between over/underwriting is practically the skeleton key to storytelling and style. Which is why it's a constant battle :P
I think you could overwrite and underwrite for artistic expression. But but not in every paragraph! Maybe when someone, might be under stress and not thinking clearly or when they're angry, shocked or scared.
@@lorrismalls4736 Yes, you can def underwrite certain characters vs others for characterization, too. Like, if you have a character whose mind is always wandering (think: Mrs Dalloway by Virginia Wolfe) then you'd write lots of sensory detail & thoughts about the past
This is excellent advice. I always appreciate your videos.
Your underwritten example of the Fiona and Hector scene felt familiar. My first drafts seem like that, often containing a lack of sensory details.
Yet, as you also acknowledge, it's too simplistic to label our own writing styles as "underwritten" or "overwritten". Most of us do a little of both, whilst perhaps having tendencies in one direction or the other.
Thank you for the tips, which are definitely helpful. 😃👍💖💝
Omg thank you so so much for this. I know this is one of your older videos but I am SUCH an overwriter. I was trying for ages to find advice on how to fix this, and I didnt even know the term overwriter existed until now. Again, thank you!!
Thank you so much for watching and for your kind words! I'm so glad to hear that the advice has helped you. Keep writing! :)
I have trouble with underwriting most of the time. When I studied journalism in college I was taught to write with as few words as possible. That was over 25 years ago, and now that I'm writing fiction, it feels like I'm constantly underwriting. Thank you for the helpful video.
When I write, I know I'm underwriting because I don't know what to put into the scene yet, but later I fix it.
Good video, I was thinking that in the balanced version she doesn't have to say anything after slapping the letter on his desk. It's obvious it's a letter, it's obvious she is angry, and his reaction could explain he intentionally never showed it to her.
As an underwriter I really find this helpful. Thank you.
I am heartened to have found you. Your competency in producing good teaching and good teaching videos is extraordinary. Thank you for your buoyancy of delivery. For the help you are giving me. Kudos!!
Thanks again Diane, some good stuff in there. After I'd watched, like, 30 seconds, I suddenly got inspired to write an example. Tell me how I did if you like!
Overwriting: If you'll be driving along SH2 from Masterton, heading north, you might experience a much-stated phenomenon. You'll have played car-cricket for a while, considered stopping at the Mount Bruce Wildlife Sanctuary and decided you'd better keep heading on for now. You'll have gotten hungry, (What? You only just had lunch!) and thirsty, and then argued about what music to play in the car before getting annoyed and having to turn the ruddy thing off, (Great! Now neither of us gets what we want!) Silence. You'll be looking at the beautiful scenery. Pastures, trees, streams, rivers, farms - very rustic. Then you'll start to nod off. You'll have felt the car slow down and notice your dad has put the indicator on. "Are we at the turn-off already?" "Yup," he'll have replied. "Hmm. And I didn't even notice us driving through Eketahuna! Rats. We missed Retro-Republic!"
Normal: If you're going to be driving north from Masterton, you may be hoping to stop briefly at that second-hand clothing shop in Eketahuna. Keep your eyes peeled - that town just appears out of the countryside, and you'll be through it in a flash."
Underwriting: Eketahuna? Blink and you'll miss it!
P.s. from your descriptions of how overwriters may feel upon receiving you're-overwriting feedback, I immediately felt defensive! I guess my weakness is much more on the overwriting side of things...
I've been trying to write a book for some time. I gotta thank you for all the information ur channel gave me, and i think i became slightly better at writing 'cause of ur indirect help. Ur channel is one of the few that offers this kind of help and insight, i really appreciatte what you are doing, keep it up!
Greetings from Argentina.
I needed this! I'm a huge underwriter. You're the best!
A very well thought out video explaining all the things that you need to know man this is a good video.
Thank you for all your videos! They are actually helpful! And entertaining as well.
The examples and your analysis and tips show the hard work you put in! Hope it helps your writing to develop further as well as our's :P
I like a moderate amount of frosting, but I like the light, whipped cream frosting. Simple and light language is far more effective to be than flowery and dense words.
I’m an overwriter so this was definitely helpful 🙈🙈
Thank you so much for this video! I now know why I sometimes feel my writing is too dry. I never knew it was because I am underwriting.
Great advice as always! Thanks for keeping up with the videos. Your advice of taking time off from the drafts always helps a lot to see what can be improved.
It would be great if you gave advice on how to create better character voice, believable plot twists that are not predictable and writing mystery or tense scenes. Also I would love for you to make a video like the one you did of Harry Potter and J.K. Rowling but about Stephen King.
PS: Sorry for hidding the letter :P
I would love to make videos on all those topics! Your PS made me laugh!
🎉 congratulations on making the comprehensive Kodak camera details,😮it really unfolded all my questions and curiosity if a will be a good prose writer this will only be because of urs kindling knowledge provided in the video in a lovely voice thanks a lot
At first, I thought I was an underwriter. But, as I’m writing my draft as of now, I think I might be both honestly. I underwrite the description of the places my characters are, but just enough so readers would know where they are; and I overwrite when I’m writing the character’s thoughts and emotion, or internal monologue or basically that had to do with the characters.
So, I underwrite descriptions; I overwrite emotions.
But, in honestly, reading a novel, it’s not about the story, but the characters. I think I read a tip somewhere: Simple story, complex character. So, if you have a compelling and well-developed character, then they could and will carry a bad story. If the characters bad, and the story’s bad, then you can see the readers putting down the book.
16:09 Eragon got called out haha!
To be fair, I probably would've enjoyed it if I'd read it as a kid or teen, when it's easier to look past an author's writing style. I don't dare pick it up now because I know I'll be too critical. Still, it's impressive to me that someone could write a coherent, popular story at such a young age!
Your writing is so good! I'd want to read the book the excerpts (the model ones) are from, if there was one. Thanks for the video!
Your videos have been so inspiring for me in writing my novel! Keep them up!
Thanks for this, Diane! I have a history of underwriting, but I found value in the latter advice, too.
XD the shade thrown at Eragon!! lmao, i love those books even after all this time. they're not perfect at all but i always loved the story. 😊
They deserve some love! They inspired a whole generation of readers and writers. :)
Just a quick thank you for all of your videos!
Hello, thank you very much for this instructive video. The examples you brought were very demonstrative to me.
To answer your question at the end, I am an overwriter, way too much, and I realise it already when I am on my first draft.
I tell myself that I am going to fix it at the editing phase. What I am going to focus on during this phase is my ability to balance between telling what the reader needs to know, and in the meantime give him/her all the space needed to picture the scene in its several aspect.
I strongly believe that the most appealing aspect of reading is the extended field of imagination at the reader's feet. And I get myself bored when I read my endless showing bad habit flooding down paragraphs after paragraphs.
Best regards.
i love eragon lol. 10/10 fav book series.
i love your videos. can you do a "what you can learn from eragon" doesn't have to be the first book
This is a fantastic channel. Subscribed !!
Not gonna lie, these overwritten cupcakes look delicious :D
Great video, keep it up :)
Great content! Subscribed 🤗
Great piece. Well crafted: very actionable. (I know, under-writing!)
This is useful, thank you.
I wasn't sure if I was underwriting at the current stage I'm in, but I realize underwriting is essencial in first drafts.
I've killed way too much time trying to perfect certain scenes when I haven't even finished laying out the second half of the story, which would likely lead me to edit these "perfect" scenes yet again.
I'm a natural over-writer who piles details into run-on sentences. I found that pretending to write either hard-boiled or like Ernest Hemingway gets me a nice balance because it tames my dragons. I learned this trick in a pre-Covid IRL writing group, so can't take credit for it, but it works for me. Your mileage may vary.
Ooh, that sounds like an excellent strategy!
I am a series writer. I just haven't time to do everthing perfect. Still, this was interesting.
the writer who i think writes the exact right amount is sharon kay penman. In the sunne in splendor, I dont have to "try" to read it all. I forget I'm reading a book and the words disappear. It's like i'm watching it
Please could you do a video analysisng how to write a story if you are basing it off of a real event, a real person, or something modern. I am thinking about a dystopian all about the problems of social media especially within TH-cam, basing my characters off of of real people and ideas linking to problems of modern TH-cam. But I don't know how to do so without sounding too on the nose of the context, and also if what I am thinking of writing is too much.
That's a fascinating topic! I would label that genre as speculative fiction, similar to the TV show "Black Mirror," which is pretty on the nose about its critiques of social media yet still effective in its message. I've been wanting to make a video on recommended reads for writing that type of fiction, which includes books like "The Circle" by Dave Eggers (basically a satire of Google and social media). That sounds similar to what you're interested in writing. Also check out "Broadcast" by Liam Brown, which is about 24-hour mind streaming and TH-cam. I don't think that topic would be too much to tackle at all. When it comes to writing about real people, I would be careful to invent characters who are clearly different from the real-life figures they're based on, since you wouldn't want to get into legal trouble. You could try writing a short story around that idea first to see if it's worth exploring at book length. Keep writing! :)
I like Crave cupcakes level of frosting.
I’m an overwriter, i always feel like my writing is too underwriting so i add more lol!
Thank you!
“Some books bore you to tears -“ *picture of Eragon*
Me: YES! Finally someone agrees with me
I’m definitely an over writer at a sentence level - for some reason, I struggle with trusting the reader and always show a lot more than I need to in terms of sensory details. I personally think showing too much is just as bad as always telling.
My first draft I have to underwrite or I get stuck on the same scene and never move forward.
Hello. I just found your channel and subbed and turned on the bell. I love the grown approach you take to your videos. Most of the authortube videos I have watched tend to do with Young Adult writing. I'm in the process of watching all your videos and loving all of them. I was hoping you could help me out with something I'm struggling with and that is sex scenes. How much is too much and when is there too little. Thank you for all your videos and for helping us out. Most appreciated.
Thank you so much for your kind words! I try to cover different types of books in all my videos. With sex scenes, it really depends on the genre expectations and the overall tone of the book. If you're writing a fantasy or sci-fi adventure novel, there are usually only "fade-to-black" sex scenes. However, if you're writing a story that's heavier on all types of graphic scenes, including romance and violence, then you're bound to see more explicit sex scenes, like in "A Song of Ice and Fire" or "Outlander."
You'll also see heavier sex scenes in literary novels that focus more on realism and portraying the characters' emotions, like Ian McEwan's novels (particularly "On Chesil Beach"). In that case, the reader is reading with the understanding that these characters are being displayed at their most vulnerable and human moments, which can entail the finer details of their sex lives.
It's when you have a contrast between the reader's expectations and what's on the page that you run into issues. A romance novel is expected to have some steamy scenes, and it's disappointing when it doesn't. A random, detailed sex scene in a fast-paced action novel is going to feel out of place.
Generally, I’d say you want enough emotion-packed language to make the readers feel what the characters are feeling but without the more clinical details of the mechanics, since that tends to gross people out (like using the words “moist” or “penetrated”). More importantly, make sure the sex scene serves a purpose. How does it provide a deeper understanding of the characters? What does it reveal about the power dynamic or conflicts in their relationship? How does it change the direction of the story?
The make-up sex scene from “Their Eyes Were Watching God” by Zora Neale Hurston is tame while also expressing the intensity of feeling: “They wrestled on until they were doped with their own fumes and emanations; till their clothes had been torn away; till he hurled her to the floor and held her there melting her resistance with the heat of his body, doing things with their bodies to express the inexpressible; kissed her until she arched her body to meet him and they fell asleep in sweet exhaustion."
It definitely helps to ask other writers to read your stories and evaluate whether or not the explicitness of the scene works. You can also read examples of the “best of” and “worst of” sex scenes, but don’t be surprised when you find that items on the two lists overlap, haha. Keep writing! :)
“50 Incredibly Written Sex Scenes in Books”: thejohnfox.com/sex-scenes-in-books/
“Literary Review’s Bad Sex in Fiction Award”: literaryreview.co.uk/bad-sex-in-fiction-award
@@QuotidianWriter I want to thank you for replying with such a well thought out and detailed response. Not a lot of AuthorTubers do that. You can't know what responses like this can do to help those of us new to the writing field. The funny thing is as I was reading it, I heard you. That's an amazing thing to make it seem like you're talking directly to me. Thank you for that.
For the tone of my book sex is a major component. It's not a porn story by any means, rather, the sex informs who my characters are in whatever form that is. I'm certainly not going for an EL James effect. God no! Nor am I going for a Marquis de Sade tone either. I have three characters who are my three main for the story. They are synergistic in the business world as well as their private lives. The three of them are together in everything, which makes them a force to be reckoned with. So I guess the mode I'm going for is more along the lines of realism
I've ordered almost all of McEwan's books and plan on digging into them voraciously. I think this might be the tone I'm looking for. Certainly less than George R. R. Martin who sort of makes his sex scenes more ritualistic in nature. It's the emotion I'm looking for. My main female character has been raped by her father and does not in any way feel a victim. In fact the opposite and the two men she's with is sort of her triumph in light of her father's treatment. I'm hoping I can find something to "feel" in terms of McEwan's writing.
I'm hoping after I get my first draft done I can get some beta readers involved to see if I'm going awry or keeping it real. LOL!!!
Once again Diane (I'm with two 'ns') for your help and for taking the time to answer my question. I'm looking forward to your further videos and love your channel. Take care.
I'm so glad I could be of help! I enjoy having opportunities to articulate my thoughts on different writing topics, as it helps me hone my own skills. For me, that's a big plus to having this channel. :)
That dynamic you described should make for an interesting story, especially with the overlap between the business world and the bedroom. It sounds like sex is a core aspect of the characters' identities and reveals a lot about how they interact with others. I wish that more literary novels delved into the complicated nature of sexuality and sexual relationships (particularly positive ones, even if there's conflict). "On Chesil Beach" is one of those books where the plot is explicitly *about* sex, specifically the character's aversion to sex, so that's part of the reason the descriptions are more detailed. I hope that Ian McEwan's work provides some insight into what you want to do in your own work.
Thank you for your comments, Dianne. Keep writing! :)
@@QuotidianWriter god that scene is BEAUTIFULLY written.
Occasionally i get it right .Or i should say eventually.
I'm weird. I feel like I'm always overwriting when I write and when I revise but the word count it should be around is nowhere near.
now i want cupcakes
19:31 what i needed to hear
QUESTION--- Hope it’s okay to ask here but do you have a Patreon/Creator account? :)
Not yet! Maybe someday, if I ever get around to producing videos more regularly. :)
What's the problem with the "overwriting" in the first scene? I was captivated in a way the "balanced" writing did not
It's all a matter of tastes. Some readers prefer less dense prose and others enjoy lots of detail! I was trying to write poorly, but apparently it wasn't bad enough, haha.
@@QuotidianWriter lol I guess not bc I might take it for practice!
'Little fires everywhere' extract was exactly the kind of writing I really dislike....tiresome. Tried to read it but hated it..yet I love Nabokov, with his huge descriptions of almost nothing.
It's heartbreaking how many disillusioned underwriters go into mortgage banking.
15:52 That man legit scared me tho-
I definitely am an overwriter.
10:55 😄
I am an underwriter.
Shit. I think I'm an overwriter.
What a yawnfest followed by bunch of self-congratulatory "writers" patting each others back. Sheesh. If you are overwrite, you overwrite. If you underwrite, underwrite, fine. Find your strength and outlet and maximize it! As simple as that.
Writing is an art and a form of self-expression. Genius cannot be "taught" nor imparted. This idea that everyone must somehow tone themselves down or rather buff their writing up with just the "prim" and "proper" dosage is absolutely risible. It is akin to expecting everyone should "live up to" some imaginary facial standard. Hahahahahaahaha.
Find what are you good at. Express yourself. And never compromise the core of your soul and being just to fit some "mould".
Too much repetitive explaining. When do you get to the point?
Making a video about over/underwriting and then spending two minutes on an analogy about cakes to explain it...really? This video should have been ten minutes long. It reminds of when you go to check a recipe and they spend the entire text telling you why you should like this recipe. Just. Get. To. The. Recipe.
I'm a severe underwriter, but it's more intentional than not. I've always had issues with holding passion for one story at a time and always got sidetracked when writing first drafts, so nowadays I solely focus on word count for that first draft and getting the story on the page. Then, when rewriting comes around, even though it takes much longer, it feels less daunting and I can have more fun with it. I think it was Hemingway who said "The only kind of writing is rewriting."
Dude, I've got like 37 different Google docks files saved, each is a different story. I pick whichever one I'm in the mood for and they are all progressing together. I'm the type to dive in the dark (didn't plot a single thing 💀) so I'm testing to see which one will stick.
Me too, being an underwriter of the first draft in most scenes. For me, one of the many reasons is that I learned from movie scripts, where it's just dialog and minimal setting and action details. But also because I come from a background of (non-computer) game design, and much of the plot is assembled like a puzzle, where the feeling and dynamics are where I start from, and only add the mechanics, relationships and details later. And also because I'm an impatient reader, and want my story moving along to its essential components.
@@tsu2155 and I thought I was the only one with this problem. I kinda dropped the whole thing some Years ago believing I get distracted too easily or simply not cut out for writing. I have strange problem for stumping around 15-16 pages for whatever I write. Then it's complete blank.
Me 2
These videos are so astoundingly good! I'm not much of a comment writer, but I just wanted to take the time to thank you for these. The lessons, the editing, commentary, production value, etc. are all golden. You deserve so many more thousands of views and subscribers. I truly believe you'll get there some day with this kind of quality. Thank you :)
I really appreciate you taking the time to comment! These videos are so fun to make, and knowing I'm helping other writers is the cherry on top.
@@QuotidianWriter Firstly , I was disappointed when you said this video will focus on " Cupcakes and not the whole bakery " . I'm likely to be guilty of *BOTH* underwriting of scenery and of plot 😓. I understand that you've got only a certain amount of finite time to make your videos & with more topics to cover in them , you risk the chance that *NOBODY* will watch any of your videos { if they're too long } . I'm afraid { so to speak 😳 } of when starting my story { of } plagiarizing the style of the other writers when you have shown me those paragraphs 😕 . If we talking about cupcakes { for real } I don't like frosting at all . I'm not much of a reader either & don't like thick heavy wording of narrative and scenes. A story rich in character status and diversity , I love 🥰📖 though. The last reading in this video i found perfect 💯%. 👨⚖️🇦🇺🇳🇴 ▶️👍
Under: "Will this really work?" asked her son. "Shh," said the mother, laying one tea bag, then another over each eye. The clock down stairs struck nine. A kiss to the head. "I'll be back in five minutes. No touching."
Over: In Nebraska last year. "Will this really work?" asked her son of fifteen, pimply, scarred, eyes closed and burning, burning with allergies. "Shh," said the mother, laying a sopping wet, room warm bag of black tea purchased that morning on accident at the corner store, then another bag, some the same box bought accidentally, it's yellow label a symbol of how a little home remedy can go a long way. Suddenly, from one floor down, the ringing peals and gear turning of a wooden clock gifted on her wedding day struck with one hand pointed west and another north. That means nine, thought the mother, nine sharp to be precise. Her favorite tv show would start. But look at him, so grown up, so upset at the world. Just one little kiss. And she planted it on his forehead, imaging for a second he were not fifteen but five again, back when his father, meaning her husband, was alive, able to teach him things, but now? "I'll be back in five minutes," she said, looking at her watch, when the ringing and the peals died down. "No touching." The son took her words to mean so many things, as she stepped out the door, and left him alone.
Just right: "Will this work?" asked her son, at an age where everything his mother did annoyed him, yet she was still capable of magic. "Shh," she said, laying one sopping wet bag of black tea over one eye, then a second over the other. Where there had been clear tears, there were now brown ones streaming, soothing. "I'm back in five," she said, shaking her wrist watch, and kissing the only boy in her life on the forehead. "No touching."
I can’t read “No Touching” without also thinking of Arrested Development haha
Brown tears? Awful .I saw disrrea
I'm the underwriter. People tell me my ideas are good, but there are barely any details. Oh my goodness-
I am an underwriter. When I heard the overwrite lone, it sounded fine to me. Too much detail is much better than too little detail according to me.
I honestly agree with you - I thought the "over-written" version sounded pretty good. It needed 2 or 3 edits to the sentences that described a character's motions in melodramatic body movements & cliches, but other than that, it'd be considered a better 1st draft
Who says "according to me"? 🤣
I am a very VERY big underwriter, and honestly, even that example felt good written for me. I do have a habit of getting the reader completely stuck in a character's thoughts sometimes, but I'm yet to learn how to write, because I genuinely enjoy it! This video was very insightful, Thank you.
Underwriter here. I actually had a scene where there should have been a lot more dialogue, but, well... here's what I did...
Yoshi looked up, but unsure what to say, she looked back down at the files. After some time of inane bantering with an extremely patient Yuna, she looked towards the Space Master.
You mean insane?
@@kukithegood
Even if it was, even insane people won't refer to their own actions as insane.
When it comes to setting descriptions, I'm a chronic underwriter. My brain naturally focuses on action and dialogue over description. The best technique I've found to fix it is in editing.
I get to a description I need to expand and find an ambience track for a similar location. There are tons out there for every location, thanks to tabletop roleplaying becoming so popular. Then I sit back, close my eyes to let the ambience build the scene in my mind and add the new elements to the (bare bones) description that's already there.
You had me at cupcake!😜
What an ingenious device to help writers distinguish between what they desire, versus what is necessary! Usually, when I see this topic tackled it feels like one is suffering through a Latin grammar class. It is example after example of technically correct writing and nothing more. But your videos are so beautifully conceived and executed, Diane! They are deeply engaging on both intellectual and emotional levels. Your gift for laying bare the problems we writers are having and for offering applicable, engaging solutions is top-notch. Thank you for making this, and all of your other videos. As a massive overwriter, I will be referring to this video over and over again.
A wonderful video!
You have to have a lot of patience writing a book. I'd rather be a chef preparing Fugu some days! Lol. Even when you're naturally good at storytelling, it's still going to take skill to execute everything you say. I wish everyone the best on their endeavors. It's not easy. I could just picture that tasty cupcake with the right amount of lemon frosting. So I clicked subscribe!!!
Can i make all the characters gay after a couple of years after it was published ? I'm just asking for a friend
Go for it
YES
JK Rowling would never
Literally editing is so hard for me...how did she say it? "Emotionally attached"
That's exactly how I feel towards almost everything that's fresh in the paper, that I wrote in one go (and that I enjoyed writting).
The worst comes when I have deadlines...it's not about letting go. It's about letting go FAST.
This exactly captures my problem. I am a crazy overwriter. Knowing what and where to kill your darlings is my issue.
I want to edit down, but struggle to convince myself that the stripped down version has enough creative heft and momentum. And once/if I find the story or my own writing uninspired, I abandon or just bin the story altogether.
Then I repeat the same madness all over again.
I think I'm initially likely to overwrite, as a means of clarifying in my own mind what I want to say, and then trim.
Possibly this marks me out as a rookie!
As long as the cupcake is chocolate... One question I have; in all three drafts, are you trying to convey what Fiona thinks of her father, or to the reader that the father is actually a jerk?
Good question! My intentions shifted across drafts, but I felt their interactions were more interesting when Hector was an outright villain. In the latter two drafts, her father is objectively a jerk, but the first one is more Fiona *thinking* her father is a jerk. However, a writer could definitely make it more ambiguous by revealing Fiona's judgments without the examples of what her father has done wrong before. That would show the reader how Fiona is feeling without giving evidence that backs up the idea that her father is a jerk. Thanks for watching! :)
I’m an underwriter. My first drafts are so plot focused and have to much dialogue. 🙄
I’m writing middle grade fantasy fiction so I feel my final draft should err on the side of underwriting, but balancing that out with relevant world building. I lose focus and my attention wanders easily when I read overwriting. I’m slogging through a middle grade fantasy that had one action scene take me 10+ minutes to read and it was way too descriptive that I almost stopped caring for the characters 😩! Also, I feel horrible for saying I don’t have the patience for Pride & Prejudice!
Damn, this is a good one. Taking notes.
I’m an over writer because I over analyze plot and hyper focus on stuff and I fix this problem by reading over every line and deciding what isn’t necessary by asking myself, is it telling and not showing? Is it redundant? Is it important to the ending? Is it interesting?
Just discovered your channel yesterday. And Im now binging your videos. Your voice is really so smooth and clear, I feel like im floating.
I was taught to "choose a side of the road" meaning if your comfortable underwriting underwrite if you overwrite .. overwrite...I am an overwriter so the rule for me is "shorten tighten and intensify"...so I begin were I need to sometimes "no exposition" and we're off to the races..go and get it alllll out of your system... then "push-in" were you need to shorten what's boring and unnecessary and intensify... sometimes that's details sometimes it's the subplot twist that's gonna kick you in the teeth my nasty trick is everything is repeated in threes subplot twist that influences story context stated twice🤭🤭🤭 once mentioned is to fast and the reader misses it and feels dirty tricked and most people who get to read my stuff love the creative details and rhythm 🤷they like the lengthy detail 🤷
I prefer the cake with too much frosting, both literally and figuratively. :D Also, I'm an overwriter. And I like to read books with nice and detailed descriptions, as long as they're not of totally pointless or meaningless things. Like, exactly what type of flowers are growing on the plain the heroes are just passing by... (I'm looking at you Tolkien!)
but frosting-less cupcakes are better....
I was told I rushed the end of a short story, a section that took me literal months to untangle. I promise, I hadn't rushed. I was just exhausted but the continuity problems.
When I returned to it after the constructive criticism, the section became bloated, like a puffer fish defending itself from attack... I'm doing it again. I'm overwriting. Make it stop!
Ahhh, thank you! This video convinced me to hit subscribe. 😄🎉 I learned that I am an underwriter for sure! So helpful 💗💗
The overwritten scene sounded like a Shrek fic💀
Thank you. I write nonfiction, but I think you've shared some principles that will help me. I'm in the process of re-wrting my third book. This video will be playing in the back of my mind as I work.
I hate frosting but not the point
I actually think most elaborate, purple prose is good. Shakespeare and Victor Hugo are purple prose, so are many of the greats. Writers say it's bad as an excuse because they cannot write beautifully.
I would posit that "purple prose" has its place. It can work really well for the feeling you intend, BUT only if it still flows as it's been written and presented. That's difficult.
When it doesn't flow really well, it reads as clunky exposition and tells far more than it shows. Elaborate words with multiple syllables can bog most readers down, and let's be honest, with the advent of "smart technology" people are losing their edge in the intelligence game. We're in a world that rewards a lack of attention span as if it's a virtue, and damns anyone with the focus to spend longer than a few seconds on nearly any subject.
Allen Watts once pointed out (I believe back in the 50's or maybe 60's) that "We're in such a hurry to get things finished, that we finish things that weren't worth doing, because they were done so fast."
I don't think society in general is improving on that observation.
On the (very slightly) other hand, one should also relax a bit. You don't have to write an important book every time you put pen to paper (or finger to keyboard). Stephen King has written a veritable mountain of less than inspiring stories... from demonic cars to the stories witnessed by a cat. Those weren't "important" in any stretch of the word. Only fun to read through.
Maybe, then, complicated scenarios, full of intricately developed scenery and immersive descriptions and all the trimmings of fantastical settings and beauty might be great, but it's a niche market. Understanding that going in, then a writer could budget the time for a "labor of love" purely for the sake of crafting the work, rather than an interest in getting the fullest returns for his/her time. ;o)
There's a lot more terrible purple prose written by hacks than great purple prose written by Shakespeare. If you're Henry James, then go for it, but you're probably not.
Shakespeare isn't even prose -- I'd push back against the notion that his writing could be defined as "purple prose" (even dropping that technicality) because the better stuff of his is practically defined by it's masterful -- wholeness. There's no excess slapped in there just to sound pretty or show off his chops (again, in his better works). The medium he's working in provides enough constraint to keep him from that.
That being said, while I can't speak to Hugo there definitely are writers who dip into purple prose masterfully. Being honest, they tend to be my favorite! So I don't disagree with the premise of your comment -- personally I read primarily for the language, rather than the plot or character, so I love well executed "purple prose."
There is no Shakespearean prose. As for his writing style, it changes drastically during his career, but I don't really agree it can ever be called purple. Lurid and tacky, sometimes. Knotty and overly complicated, at times. Stunning in its simplicity and concision, often. Ornate and finely wrought, often. But none of that is the same as purple.
The greatest purple prose I can think of is Mervyn Peake in his first two Gormenghast books. It's the apotheosis of purple!
I don't think you understand what purple prose is then. It's inherently bad. Poetic prose is good. When it's bad, it's Purple Prose.
Helpful as always! This video came at the perfect time for me.
On the one hand, I like no frosting.
Up my arm, across my chest, and down again, placed upon the other hand resides a highly specialized cupcake with frosting akin to my simplest descriptions of the finest details pertaining to inconsequential elements within any given span of text are as a doctoral dissertation competing to solidify my complex philosophical point of reference, which persists in its elaboration even well after my fiftieth reduction of the carefully crafted proposal.