"Choosing change over stagnation is the essence of story." When valuable writing advice overlaps with valuable life advice... 😳 I feel confronted, and thank you for it. 😆
HELP! At 0:52, those pictures that represent writer-rules like Chekovs Gun and all such, where can i find more of them? I want to hang such up on my walls where i live, reminding me of Rules and Concepts. But where to find more of them; let alone those in this video here?
I remember coming up with an entire grand plot, and after so much planning and I was about to start it, I found a MASSIVE plothole that could potentially ruin the entire story if it were found out. Fun
The slow middle is why I get bored with serial shows. When there's 27 seasons of a show you know nothing is going to happen for a while. "Gee, what color will this wedding be?" "Oh no, they've run out of main characters and are starting to kill secondary characters."
@@TrueMohax that might be why the red wedding works so well... just casually reading and in the middle of the book at some boring wedding everything changes. I remember reading it and feeling my blood drain when I realised what was happening and I literally audibly said 'fuck' and had to stop reading for a while.
My characters just sit around and have coffee. I am opposed to drama. You will read my novel of 3 people having coffee and the waitress who brings it to them.... AND LIKE IT! :D
Thanks everyone for comments. @@lunapond7652 You have NO idea how eerie your name is as it pertains to my story! I've never heard of Coffee Talks but I'll look it up when I can as it looks interesting. Here's an excerpt from my fiction: The waitress served the coffee for everyone. There were 3. She was wearing an apron. Everyone grabbed their spoon and started stirring the coffee----with respective spoons. (No one stirred anyone else's coffee.) "How's the coffee?" He took a sip of his. "You know," she thought about it, "I mean it's..." she shrugged "...coffee," she finally uttered. "So what did you do this weekend?" "Not much. You?" "Not much." "Not much, too," said the 3rd one, albeit without being asked. "Huh!" They all sipped the coffee in the silence of the very busy diner. I'm just kidding, LOL! Ok that was a nice break, back to email work! XD
For repetition you can replace it with the character describing their day to day work, or turn it into a short montage. Using a montage can show the reader the repetitive and monotonous life the character lives while also showing the passage of time. Using this method is useful for fetch quest storylines, characters looking for more excitement in their lives, or to prevent the feeling that the characters are teleporting to locations.
I think I felt this In The Binding. Throughout the first 100 pages the plot barely moves ahead and it's an exasperating read. But slowly things pick up and somehow...that stagnant time seems to make sense. However I've not read the full book yet, so let's see
@@deekshab9417 HELP! At 0:52, those pictures that represent writer-rules like Chekovs Gun and all such, where can i find more of them? I want to hang such up on my walls where i live, reminding me of Rules and Concepts. But where to find more of them; let alone those in this video here?
@@QuotidianWriter Pas de probleme! As busy as I know you are, it's touching to think of how you spare no expense in finding entertaining, eye-catching images to go with your top-shelf scripts and video editing. And, as if that wasn't impressive enough, all of your videos are all steak and a decadent helping of sizzle (which we all love), but no fat! Taken together, your videos so far have more than enough valuable, applicable and timely content, to fill a book on how to write engaging novels while avoiding writing pitfalls, etc. How you do all of this "in your spare time" is beyond my ability to understand! I just wanted to extend you my truly sincere appreciation for all you do for your fledglings. Our hearts jump whenever you post a new video because what you do means so very much to us! P.S. I'll be preparing Thanksgiving dinner so I wanted to get in "what I'm thankful for" before I get too busy! 😉
@@QuotidianWriter I don't agree with all of your opinions { especially that one about " juicy character development " } however I've only yet to start my first story { since abstaining from creative writing since after primary/elementary school } . So your more expert than me. I dislike " negative conflict " , as well as sad/disappointing endings Although I know some stories deserves them. You've got a nice voice for #TH-cam. 🧑💻🇦🇺🇳🇴 📖🔏
Speaking of unsatisfying payoffs: I just got done reading a relatively new YA trilogy that started out perfectly--it was dark, heavy, serious. It didn't really FEEL like something made for Young Adults (or, more brutally, it seemed way better written in the beginning than most YA fiction XD) Then the typical sh!t eventually happened (boy goes on dangerous adventure with girl. They eventually get feelings for one another.) The usual. But there was an amazing mystery at the very start of the series to do with the MC's origin--where he came from, how he ended up where he was, etc. And it was heavily mentioned (it heavily fostered curiosity about it) for the whole series... And then in the end, they just have the character do the whole 'No, this family (that I know exactly nothing about aside from the fact that they gave me up for whatever reason) isn't something I care about anymore, because I now have a FOUND family' And just ends the book like that. No proper resolve. No anything. It's like getting edged for 6 hours and your partner just walking tf away. (But, get this, I discovered that there actually WAS some resolution to this mystery--IN THE 'SPECIAL EDITION' OF THIS SERIES. Like, wtf? So not only did this author butcher any respect I had for them for just leaving this HUGE mystery to fall flat, they did some shady thing where you'd only get the full story (that should have been in the original trilogy) by buying or renting a whole new book.) (Jeez, it's a good thing someone posted it online so I didn't have to go through the trouble of that XD But, it's like come on man, give me a break)
This sounds like a similar problem I have to revenge plot stories that just end with “actually, revenge bad.” Like, you can’t have something be the core motivation driving your character throughout the story and stubbornly refuse to change their mind until right at the climax where they suddenly decide that the thing that’s been most important to them this whole time actually isn’t important anymore. It’s certainly possible to have them change their mind, but we should see them actually deal with consequences of revenge and stuff that does the seeds of doubt throughout the story so that finally at the end, we see conflict in their desire to complete their goal. Or in the case of what you mentioned, there should be layers throughout the story of the character learning to let go of their past if you want them to say “never mind, I’m okay with not knowing” at the end and have it be satisfying.
I have read book series where year's after finishing extra book(s) came out just like the author realise what they messed up and tried to fix it xD Another thing that upsets me is whenever a protagonist has to go through alot and in the end almost everything is coming back (like losing eyesight and all friends and family are dying and in the end the protagonist finds out they aren't dead and is getting the eyesight back) without proper explanation.
Thanks a lot for the video. I'm writing a fanfic right now and I hadn't even realized that part of the reason why everything seemed to slow down once in a while was that I didn't give my protagonist enough of a reason to care for portions of it. It killed the pace and the interest some of my readers had. There were significant events but they felt dull.
My main 'plotting problem' is... that I don't plot. I'm a pantser. Well, I do some plotting, but during the actual writing, not in advance. If I plan a story, knowing what will happen to who, let alone how it will end, I feel like the story is done already, and have no urge to have to write it down. Instead I have to surprise myself while writing, as I would get surprised by reading a story someone else wrote. It still astounds me that my stories actually make any sense in the end, but they do, as if I did plot and plan everything from the start.
My next video will be about plotting vs. pantsing, actually! :) There are a lot of pantsers out there who feel the same way you do, and plot is always something you can revise after the draft is finished. Keep writing!
I believe the only way for your brilliant efforts to payoff and for us to show the utmost of gratitude is to extract better material of ourselves to provide as writers. Diane, we can never thank you enough!
I rarely comment on videos, but I feel like I just have to express my gratitude somehow for your videos. They're among the best writing advice videos I have ever come across and I feel like I have become a much better writer thanks to them. I always feel like I'm learning so much watching your videos, more than most other writing videos, and the depth and quality of them are absolutely great! I love how you bring up stuff I personally have not seen as often, at least not put together in this way, and the diversity in examples etc. and I want to thank you for that. You put a lot of hard work into these and it's really showing. Thank you so much for helping me and other fellow writers on our journeys!
Premise: a guy finds the love of his life only to discover he has cancer. as luck would have it, a shadowy man approaches with a cure for his illness. but there are consequences. body altering, face distorting consequences. but hey...now he's sort of indestructible. coming soon! (sounds kinda familiar) cue Peter Cetera for a soundtrack song.
I've been struggling to outline this story I've had in my head for a while and your video just helped me figure out that making the ending a midpoint reversal could work really well. Thanks!
Love how French novelcraft is used as the illustrator here. Just because they went long & meandering does not mean the plot was absent. If the artist is paid by the word or page, why not take some savor time and go full Ferris Bueller?
His eyebrows raised at the realization, mind racing with new found potentiality. A river rushed from his fingertips as hours and hours on end were lost to the page, gratefully.
your video on showing versus telling and the way you explained it 100 percent helped me rewire my brain for narrative storytelling. I cannot even express it. thank you. I can't wait to revise my novel.
Thank you! Generally, writer advice videos are so _uninspiring_ that I can't wait to get through them, hoping to find just one nugget of wisdom. Your video is a treasure trove. Perhaps the old saying is true, "When the student is ready the master appears". I am writing a time travel novel with dual timelines that interweave throughout the story, and it's driving me batty to keep it properly structured. I believe your advice will help, and I look forward to watching your other videos as well. Subscribed.
This is one of the best and most accurate plot-related advice i've seen out there in a while and god knows i've watched many. The amount and the quality of the information is astonishing. Thank you so much, you're a pearl!
These videos are as brilliant as they are inspiring. I am getting old, and the mind isn't what it once was. I appreciate how much information you have provided in such perfectly produced sessions. You've helped approach my writing from a clearer perspective. Thanks for your obviously very hard work.
Thank you so much for those tips! I’ve always tried to write stories since I was a kid. Boring as they are, I’ve decided to work on something original this time. I was struggling on the plot and character arcs when your video popped up in my recommendations this morning. It definitely broadened my horizons and I would absolutely forward this gem to others who share the same writing passion around me!
Oml!! i literally just began clapping like a seal would when i saw that you uploaded!1 i have been waiting patiently for ages and it was so worth it!! thanks for this! you have no idea how much i have been struggling with plot development, this could not have come at a perfect time!! thanks so much!
It's the first video of yours that I've watched and I have to say that the quality is superb. I personally really appreciate the original illustrations and the general graphic representation of what is being talked about. It's professional and provides clarity. And the exapmles are also much appreciated. The pitfall I've been hearing about is focusing too much on the worldbuilding. Too much focus on figuring out the history of the royal family four generations back instead of actually creating a story.
You are doing something really special with this channel. I find your videos are often as thought provoking as they are informative. I truly appreciate the time and effort you put into this and I hope you are happy and healthy.
You can check out my behind-the-scenes notes for this video on my Ko-fi page! ko-fi.com/Blog/Post/4-Plotting-Pitfalls-and-How-to-Avoid-Them-Behind-Z8Z618IAC You can also read an adapted text version of this video on Medium: quotidianwriter.medium.com/4-plotting-pitfalls-and-how-to-avoid-them-aaadec8a72a7
My plot is: "Guy hears stories." Stories of human trafficking and other abuses, mostly consensual but not all. Then at the Midpoint he goes to the police, but he doesn't have enough info, so he decides to play detective and gather more info. As a result of this decision ... he keeps hearing stories. Finally he finds out whether the stories are true. Also, he lives by a set of rules that his mom has made him memorize (complete with numbers).
skaetur1 If there’s a personal connection in the part of the story where the guy is being told the stories, OP doesn’t necessarily need to start with the police involvement. So long as the police involvement feels like it’s recontextualizing something incredibly important in the first half.
This is great. Reassuring to me that I am at least on the right track with my WIP. Loved the examples you used. I too have had a problem with the sagging middle. I think i fixed that. One of my problems has been how and where to give backstory, revealing it a little at a time. So many writers, it seems, want to give the reader "info dumps" to give up all the backstory at once. Sometimes this is right in the middle of the book too! And often the reader does not need the info as it is not essential to the story.
Wow, this was so helpful. Thank you so much! I’m writing my first book and have had a hard time finding a good and original plot for my book that won’t be too boring. This inspired me a lot✨
I actually struggled with too many ideas - internal plot points or the like. That's continued to haunt me for how convoluted or unclear everything felt until I began to see it in a simplified way. Suddenly, it became as simple as "your sweetheart's abuser returns, and they want her back". While nowhere thrilling at first glance, the easier it is to understand, the better it will be to stay focused and motivated to give it life with all the little spices.
Vert helpful. You deliver your content without the snarky, pedantic tone that characterizes so many internet editors and other fiction writing instructors.
You give some solid advice! Thank you! Mary Robinette-Kowal (might have misspelled that) also have good advice on how to do some of these, she calls it the "yes, but..." and "no, and".
In my most recent project, a science-fiction novel, I'm struggling with a cohesive plot. Thanks to videos like this, however, I think I have a notion of what do to.
I'd like to argue that it's okay to write stories with figures instead of characters, who are more about representing something or someone than they have unique personality, like Bertholt Brecht did in his plays. I prefer writing dense, intrinsic characters, but some people might not be interested in writing them
I love to hear your insight, and your voice is very pretty. You've actually helped me a lot in my writing journey, and some of what I've accomplished wouldn't have been possible if it weren't for you, so thank you, and I can't wait to watch more!
Personally, I would like to see more unreliable female narrators and characters who start "good" but descend into villainy. I appreciate stories where two morally gray characters are in opposition, rather than the story featuring an obvious hero and villain. However, everyone's tastes are different, and what I like might not be what the current publishing market is looking for!
Thank you for the wonderful video!!! I'm stuck figuring out my plot! It would be a romance with a sci-fi setting. It started with the concept of Nadya (main character 1) finding out about her grandfather owing basically a king's ransom. While he insists that it's nothing to worry about she worries about it... A LOT since she's got some tied-up emotional stake in lost family/trusting. She becomes a runner/merc in an attempt to solve the problem. She lands herself a job with Thiago (main character 2), a hacker, who is a huge flirt (to a fault). My biggest struggle is I want to do a romance/erotica, to show how these two weirdos come together, learn how to communicate effectively, and become a couple, but I don't know how to balance it with the ransom / what do I do once the ransom situation resolves itself. EDIT: To clarify this originally started as characters that were developed for a tabletop RPG game but it's since been divorced from that.
HELP! At 0:52, those pictures that represent writer-rules like Chekovs Gun and all such, where can i find more of them? I want to hang such up on my walls where i live, reminding me of Rules and Concepts. But where to find more of them; let alone those in this video here?
That sounds like a great plot! Honestly, the story might come across as more sci-fi-oriented than romance-oriented based on your premise. If you truly want to spotlight the romance/erotica plot, then Nadya's relationship with Thiago needs to be at the forefront. Based on your description, it feels more like a romantic subplot rather than the romance being THE plot, as readers might expect it to be in an erotica novel. I would consider how you can make their relationship the main thrust of the story. Perhaps she needs to seduce and sleep with Thiago in order to get the information she needs, which relates to her goal of dealing with the ransom. Or maybe she's investigating Thiago's involvement in the ransom, but she can't deny their chemistry, so she's torn between throwing him to the cops and banging him, haha. Although you're writing sci-fi, the genre closest to what you're doing is paranormal erotica, so you could also check out some bestsellers in that category and see how they balance plot and sexy times. Keep writing! :)
@@slevinchannel7589 I answered in your other thread for you! :) Those illustrations and more are by an artist on Pixabay. pixabay.com/users/cdd20-1193381/?tab=popular&pagi=
There's a school of thought that says someone who alerts others about a twist ending in a book (or other storytelling forms like movies, TV shows, or plays for that matter) is effectively spoiling it, even if they don't reveal what that twist is. This is especially true for those who like to go in blind. Giving notice about a twist creates a subconscious anticipation for it and robs the element of surprise.
The majority of Author tube or the authorities of writing and editing are from the West or Countries that treasures reading and the writing industry. Here in the region of Cordillera in the Philippines, it took me about 8 years to write and publish my book. The main reason is the Arts in general like writing, music, painting, sculpture, acting and the like are considered as "hobbies" and not a "real careers". People are focused on what they consider as "real careers" that are "paying jobs" like farming, carpentry, professions, businesses and the like. This is mainly due to the low standard of living or poverty that are prevalent here. It was difficult for me to find editors, beta readers, critic partners, support systems (family and friends who believed on my career choice), time to write (have to hustle in the real world to fulfill basic needs and to exhausted in my free time) and others. I end up skipping some steps and submitted my manuscript this year in a publishing company willing to help me publish as a novice writer. I don't know if this is necessary but it is my reality as a writer.
This is some good advice here! I found that my plotting problems/minus points often come from me gravitating to episodic structures or video game mission style plotting naturally. So for instance a chapter is more aking to a TV show episode or a mission given. They may have a larger story connecting them or at least a theme. Or show something about certain characters at the very least. Downside is: It can often look like a lack of focus and drags on and on and on (aka some things keep occuring). Also huge ass word count to be written making any sort of publishing a moot point.
AMAZING! I love this channel! it's extremely helpful and interesting to listen to. I rarely comment on youtube videos but I really like the content. thank you!
I have almost never heard of the Two Princesses of Bamarre ever referenced anywhere. That book has been in my shelf for years, and I love it so much. Such a bittersweet story. This was so cool! But the question "What happens if the protagonist walks away" is a great one I hsoul dbe thinking abut myself.
I've found that my writing uses dream logic and surrealism, which makes it hard for me to convey ideas clearly. I love that ambiguity and forming a paradox with clever wordplay, but I'm worried that doing so alienates my audience. How could one use the midpoint to ground the story and reconnect with the audience?
That is a tough challenge. I wonder if you could have part of the story feel more "grounded" or conventional than the rest, giving readers an anchor, and then you could launch into the more surreal, dreamlike aspects. You could return to that grounded story line at the midpoint to reorient the reader. Challenger Deep by Neal Shusterman uses this technique, switching between real life and a metaphorical dream world. I also recommend reading popular "surrealist" writers like Haruki Murakami to get a sense for how they balance ambiguity, wordplay, and audience connection. Keep writing! :)
one thing that defines surrealism is the ability to transition. one thing that defines a dream, is that the is an inkling that it is in fact a dream logic. for both, it requires a deeper sense of suspension but a lighter spring. take it easy on the vocabulary.
Hmm... I thought I might be having a problem with the middle (at least, I was seeing it coming on). I am also fearful of unsatisfying endings... Until you mentioned 1984. Now, we know that Winston has made his choice in the opening few lines of the book. Everything else is build up to the inevitable. But one of the most evocative puzzle pieces of that ending has to do with the equation he writes in the dust of a table at the Chestnut Tree Café; 2+2=... In the original 1951 version, the typographers have not put the "5" that was intended by Orwell, which would have meant that Big Brother has won. It has been argued that this was an honest mistake, but I doubt it, as typography then was with lead type. So the question is, how satisfying is the ending, relative to the type of book this is? Also see Saint-Éxupéry's Sun Sand and Stars. Otherwise, I will stick with F. Scott Fitzgerald for unsatisfying endings.
12:50 I understand what you're saying, I shudder at basically subverting the entire premise of your story 60-90 through your story. Mostly cause it nearly always ends up being, "Oh, you were furthering the villains' plot all along" (either by being unwitting dups, being strung along when you think you're working against the villain, or having been fighting for the wrong side all along). It makes it feel like the first 60-90% of the story was a completely different story, and now it has no real end, and now we have this much shorter story with these characters we'll read about instead.
Watched this again just now. Again, finding this very insightful. Interestingly I'd say that whilst, yes, ending with a bang instead of a whimper is the way to go, I've read two books in the last year or so that had very different but very unsatisfactory endings, one a whimper, (The Book of Strange New Things,) and one a bang, (Birnham Wood.) Both were reasonably readable up until the end, but both left me feeling, "What a stupid lazy ending." I've a feeling there's quite a trend of leaving books without a real resolution, without tying up at least most of the loose ends. And I hate it. As I say, it feels like the author's gotten tired of the journey, and just wants to wrap things up quickly so they can sell the book and move on. But either there is no real ending, or the ending is a cheap ploy for dramatic effect, that leaves you thinking, "What about all that other stuff?" and, "Oh. Right. Those characters really were that two-dimensional after all." But I love your clear and sensible unpacking of this topic Diane. Very grateful you've taken the time to create this and upload to TH-cam. (I personally don't use any social media, unless TH-cam can be described as such.) Looking forward to the next piece you might choose to create and upload 🙂
![[ENGSUB] UNPRODUCTIVE DAY ใช้ชีวิต (เปื่อยๆ) ด้วยกัน 1 วัน! | OUROAD CLOSEFRiEND SS2 EP.9](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pyYKZ3kra9w/mqdefault.jpg)
"Choosing change over stagnation is the essence of story." When valuable writing advice overlaps with valuable life advice... 😳 I feel confronted, and thank you for it. 😆
HELP!
At 0:52, those pictures that represent writer-rules like Chekovs Gun and all such, where can i find more of them?
I want to hang such up on my walls where i live, reminding me of Rules and Concepts.
But where to find more of them; let alone those in this video here?
I remember coming up with an entire grand plot, and after so much planning and I was about to start it, I found a MASSIVE plothole that could potentially ruin the entire story if it were found out.
Fun
What was it if you don't mind me asking
x2
x3
x4
x5 lmao
The slow middle is why I get bored with serial shows. When there's 27 seasons of a show you know nothing is going to happen for a while. "Gee, what color will this wedding be?" "Oh no, they've run out of main characters and are starting to kill secondary characters."
Why did the Red Wedding suddenly pop in my head?
@@TrueMohax that might be why the red wedding works so well... just casually reading and in the middle of the book at some boring wedding everything changes. I remember reading it and feeling my blood drain when I realised what was happening and I literally audibly said 'fuck' and had to stop reading for a while.
My characters just sit around and have coffee. I am opposed to drama. You will read my novel of 3 people having coffee and the waitress who brings it to them.... AND LIKE IT! :D
Sounds awesome! Lately I've been more interested in books not about the end of the world and drama. Good luck on the book! :)
@@teardrop6392 Thanks for the lovely comment, I appreciate that! :D
@@irened2 Of course! It's great to see people write new and fresh stories that they love.
You’d Like the game “coffee talks”
Thanks everyone for comments. @@lunapond7652 You have NO idea how eerie your name is as it pertains to my story! I've never heard of Coffee Talks but I'll look it up when I can as it looks interesting. Here's an excerpt from my fiction:
The waitress served the coffee for everyone. There were 3. She was wearing an apron. Everyone grabbed their spoon and started stirring the coffee----with respective spoons. (No one stirred anyone else's coffee.)
"How's the coffee?" He took a sip of his.
"You know," she thought about it, "I mean it's..." she shrugged "...coffee," she finally uttered.
"So what did you do this weekend?"
"Not much. You?"
"Not much."
"Not much, too," said the 3rd one, albeit without being asked.
"Huh!"
They all sipped the coffee in the silence of the very busy diner.
I'm just kidding, LOL! Ok that was a nice break, back to email work! XD
Queen has blessed us with 26 minutes of content.
I read content as consent and it really confused me
Golden advice to remember
Gay
@@aayushipriya0216 n I. Cchiu
For repetition you can replace it with the character describing their day to day work, or turn it into a short montage. Using a montage can show the reader the repetitive and monotonous life the character lives while also showing the passage of time. Using this method is useful for fetch quest storylines, characters looking for more excitement in their lives, or to prevent the feeling that the characters are teleporting to locations.
But they are teleporting
A time lapse can also works, like in Big Hero 6 when Hiro is busy with his work. That’s a great scene.
I think I felt this In The Binding. Throughout the first 100 pages the plot barely moves ahead and it's an exasperating read. But slowly things pick up and somehow...that stagnant time seems to make sense. However I've not read the full book yet, so let's see
@@deekshab9417 HELP!
At 0:52, those pictures that represent writer-rules like Chekovs Gun and all such, where can i find more of them?
I want to hang such up on my walls where i live, reminding me of Rules and Concepts.
But where to find more of them; let alone those in this video here?
"Oooh, this is juicy!" I smiled so wide my cheeks hurt. You truly have a beautiful gift, Diane! Thanks for another entertaining and informative video.
Haha, thank you so much, Joel! :)
@@QuotidianWriter Pas de probleme! As busy as I know you are, it's touching to think of how you spare no expense in finding entertaining, eye-catching images to go with your top-shelf scripts and video editing. And, as if that wasn't impressive enough, all of your videos are all steak and a decadent helping of sizzle (which we all love), but no fat! Taken together, your videos so far have more than enough valuable, applicable and timely content, to fill a book on how to write engaging novels while avoiding writing pitfalls, etc. How you do all of this "in your spare time" is beyond my ability to understand! I just wanted to extend you my truly sincere appreciation for all you do for your fledglings. Our hearts jump whenever you post a new video because what you do means so very much to us!
P.S. I'll be preparing Thanksgiving dinner so I wanted to get in "what I'm thankful for" before I get too busy! 😉
@@QuotidianWriter I don't agree with all of your opinions { especially that one about " juicy character development " } however I've only yet to start my first story { since abstaining from creative writing since after primary/elementary school } . So your more expert than me. I dislike " negative conflict " , as well as sad/disappointing endings Although I know some stories deserves them. You've got a nice voice for #TH-cam. 🧑💻🇦🇺🇳🇴 📖🔏
Speaking of unsatisfying payoffs:
I just got done reading a relatively new YA trilogy that started out perfectly--it was dark, heavy, serious. It didn't really FEEL like something made for Young Adults (or, more brutally, it seemed way better written in the beginning than most YA fiction XD)
Then the typical sh!t eventually happened (boy goes on dangerous adventure with girl. They eventually get feelings for one another.) The usual.
But there was an amazing mystery at the very start of the series to do with the MC's origin--where he came from, how he ended up where he was, etc. And it was heavily mentioned (it heavily fostered curiosity about it) for the whole series...
And then in the end, they just have the character do the whole 'No, this family (that I know exactly nothing about aside from the fact that they gave me up for whatever reason) isn't something I care about anymore, because I now have a FOUND family'
And just ends the book like that. No proper resolve. No anything. It's like getting edged for 6 hours and your partner just walking tf away.
(But, get this, I discovered that there actually WAS some resolution to this mystery--IN THE 'SPECIAL EDITION' OF THIS SERIES. Like, wtf? So not only did this author butcher any respect I had for them for just leaving this HUGE mystery to fall flat, they did some shady thing where you'd only get the full story (that should have been in the original trilogy) by buying or renting a whole new book.)
(Jeez, it's a good thing someone posted it online so I didn't have to go through the trouble of that XD But, it's like come on man, give me a break)
This sounds like a similar problem I have to revenge plot stories that just end with “actually, revenge bad.” Like, you can’t have something be the core motivation driving your character throughout the story and stubbornly refuse to change their mind until right at the climax where they suddenly decide that the thing that’s been most important to them this whole time actually isn’t important anymore.
It’s certainly possible to have them change their mind, but we should see them actually deal with consequences of revenge and stuff that does the seeds of doubt throughout the story so that finally at the end, we see conflict in their desire to complete their goal.
Or in the case of what you mentioned, there should be layers throughout the story of the character learning to let go of their past if you want them to say “never mind, I’m okay with not knowing” at the end and have it be satisfying.
@Lilly Devil What book series was this? If you don’t mind me inquiring.
I have read book series where year's after finishing extra book(s) came out just like the author realise what they messed up and tried to fix it xD
Another thing that upsets me is whenever a protagonist has to go through alot and in the end almost everything is coming back (like losing eyesight and all friends and family are dying and in the end the protagonist finds out they aren't dead and is getting the eyesight back) without proper explanation.
Thanks a lot for the video. I'm writing a fanfic right now and I hadn't even realized that part of the reason why everything seemed to slow down once in a while was that I didn't give my protagonist enough of a reason to care for portions of it. It killed the pace and the interest some of my readers had. There were significant events but they felt dull.
My main 'plotting problem' is... that I don't plot. I'm a pantser. Well, I do some plotting, but during the actual writing, not in advance. If I plan a story, knowing what will happen to who, let alone how it will end, I feel like the story is done already, and have no urge to have to write it down. Instead I have to surprise myself while writing, as I would get surprised by reading a story someone else wrote.
It still astounds me that my stories actually make any sense in the end, but they do, as if I did plot and plan everything from the start.
My next video will be about plotting vs. pantsing, actually! :) There are a lot of pantsers out there who feel the same way you do, and plot is always something you can revise after the draft is finished. Keep writing!
@@QuotidianWriter
Thanks! I'm looking forward to that! :)
I believe the only way for your brilliant efforts to payoff and for us to show the utmost of gratitude is to extract better material of ourselves to provide as writers. Diane, we can never thank you enough!
I rarely comment on videos, but I feel like I just have to express my gratitude somehow for your videos. They're among the best writing advice videos I have ever come across and I feel like I have become a much better writer thanks to them. I always feel like I'm learning so much watching your videos, more than most other writing videos, and the depth and quality of them are absolutely great! I love how you bring up stuff I personally have not seen as often, at least not put together in this way, and the diversity in examples etc. and I want to thank you for that. You put a lot of hard work into these and it's really showing. Thank you so much for helping me and other fellow writers on our journeys!
Thank you so much for your kind words! I love making these videos, and receiving wonderful comments like yours inspires me to keep creating them. :)
Premise: A young boy witness the murder of his parents after a night in the movie thea.....wait
Premise: a guy finds the love of his life only to discover he has cancer. as luck would have it, a shadowy man approaches with a cure for his illness. but there are consequences. body altering, face distorting consequences. but hey...now he's sort of indestructible. coming soon! (sounds kinda familiar) cue Peter Cetera for a soundtrack song.
@@chaddelong998 premise: guy walks he trips then disappears
@@mjolninja9358 Please warn people before you write something so scary.
Premise: 3 people sit at a 1930's diner to have coffee. The waitress brings it to them... and SHE SMILES!
@@chaddelong998 isn't it the premise of Deadpool?
I've been struggling to outline this story I've had in my head for a while and your video just helped me figure out that making the ending a midpoint reversal could work really well. Thanks!
HELP
Love how French novelcraft is used as the illustrator here. Just because they went long & meandering does not mean the plot was absent. If the artist is paid by the word or page, why not take some savor time and go full Ferris Bueller?
Screenwriter here, I use these methods and this channel of novelty to help with my writings!
His eyebrows raised at the realization, mind racing with new found potentiality. A river rushed from his fingertips as hours and hours on end were lost to the page, gratefully.
your video on showing versus telling and the way you explained it 100 percent helped me rewire my brain for narrative storytelling. I cannot even express it. thank you. I can't wait to revise my novel.
This channel is so calming. Bonus, you learn something about creative writing. 😊
Thank you! Generally, writer advice videos are so _uninspiring_ that I can't wait to get through them, hoping to find just one nugget of wisdom. Your video is a treasure trove. Perhaps the old saying is true, "When the student is ready the master appears". I am writing a time travel novel with dual timelines that interweave throughout the story, and it's driving me batty to keep it properly structured. I believe your advice will help, and I look forward to watching your other videos as well. Subscribed.
I can’t thank you enough for this video...
I finally ‘get it’ about what personal stakes really are.
This video is a true education.
This is one of the best and most accurate plot-related advice i've seen out there in a while and god knows i've watched many. The amount and the quality of the information is astonishing. Thank you so much, you're a pearl!
You're the only TH-camr I've hit the bell notification for. Your advice is much appreciated:)
Same
These videos are as brilliant as they are inspiring. I am getting old, and the mind isn't what it once was. I appreciate how much information you have provided in such perfectly produced sessions. You've helped approach my writing from a clearer perspective. Thanks for your obviously very hard work.
Thank you so much for those tips!
I’ve always tried to write stories since I was a kid. Boring as they are, I’ve decided to work on something original this time. I was struggling on the plot and character arcs when your video popped up in my recommendations this morning. It definitely broadened my horizons and I would absolutely forward this gem to others who share the same writing passion around me!
Your timing is great! I'm at the dreaded 40k mark in NaNoWriMo and plotting is pitfalling hard right now!
Oh my god the midpoint reversal is genius!
Oml!! i literally just began clapping like a seal would when i saw that you uploaded!1 i have been waiting patiently for ages and it was so worth it!! thanks for this! you have no idea how much i have been struggling with plot development, this could not have come at a perfect time!! thanks so much!
Me seeing that one of my favourite authortubers liked my comment: (*≧▽≦)
°˖✧◝(⁰▿⁰)◜✧˖°
Brilliant advice! I've watched it three times, I suppose I'm trying to memorize it. Best writing advice I've seen. Many thanks!
Ooh, a new channel with advice to binge watch when taking writing breaks
Your voice is so soothing.
It's the first video of yours that I've watched and I have to say that the quality is superb. I personally really appreciate the original illustrations and the general graphic representation of what is being talked about. It's professional and provides clarity. And the exapmles are also much appreciated.
The pitfall I've been hearing about is focusing too much on the worldbuilding. Too much focus on figuring out the history of the royal family four generations back instead of actually creating a story.
You are doing something really special with this channel. I find your videos are often as thought provoking as they are informative. I truly appreciate the time and effort you put into this and I hope you are happy and healthy.
a quick appreciation for the accurate subtitles on all these videos!! so grateful for them
I loved listening to this while doing vocabulary work. Very satisfying!
You can check out my behind-the-scenes notes for this video on my Ko-fi page! ko-fi.com/Blog/Post/4-Plotting-Pitfalls-and-How-to-Avoid-Them-Behind-Z8Z618IAC
You can also read an adapted text version of this video on Medium: quotidianwriter.medium.com/4-plotting-pitfalls-and-how-to-avoid-them-aaadec8a72a7
Where are the graphics of the man from?
thanks so much for these videos, they're always so informative and presented in an easy to understand manner.
I've started a binge of your videos. Definitely helps deal with some road blocks with some of my ideas.
My plot is: "Guy hears stories." Stories of human trafficking and other abuses, mostly consensual but not all. Then at the Midpoint he goes to the police, but he doesn't have enough info, so he decides to play detective and gather more info. As a result of this decision ... he keeps hearing stories. Finally he finds out whether the stories are true.
Also, he lives by a set of rules that his mom has made him memorize (complete with numbers).
Sounds good if executed well
Skip the first part. Start where he goes to the police.
skaetur1 If there’s a personal connection in the part of the story where the guy is being told the stories, OP doesn’t necessarily need to start with the police involvement. So long as the police involvement feels like it’s recontextualizing something incredibly important in the first half.
I keep rewatching this. Thank you for making such a good resource!
Your videos are really good. I fell down a writing rabbit hole recently and your videos have helped me with moving my plot. Thank you.
This is great. Reassuring to me that I am at least on the right track with my WIP. Loved the examples you used. I too have had a problem with the sagging middle. I think i fixed that. One of my problems has been how and where to give backstory, revealing it a little at a time. So many writers, it seems, want to give the reader "info dumps" to give up all the backstory at once. Sometimes this is right in the middle of the book too! And often the reader does not need the info as it is not essential to the story.
This viedo helped me so much for developing my fantasy novel! Thank you for your work!!!
Possibly the most helpful of your videos I've seen so far. Thanks very much for this.
Wow, this was so helpful. Thank you so much! I’m writing my first book and have had a hard time finding a good and original plot for my book that won’t be too boring. This inspired me a lot✨
one of the most helpful videos ive found so far, was very understandable and easy to listen to for me
Another fantastic video to help writers with certain problems. Your true voice offering help is appreciated. 🙂
Just found your channel, and now I'm watching everything... I love it (I also like the production value, it's great)
Thank you so much for your kind words! Keep writing. :)
I adore Shoreh Agdashloo's voice. The most pleasant and grandmotherly one in media today.
I actually struggled with too many ideas - internal plot points or the like. That's continued to haunt me for how convoluted or unclear everything felt until I began to see it in a simplified way.
Suddenly, it became as simple as "your sweetheart's abuser returns, and they want her back". While nowhere thrilling at first glance, the easier it is to understand, the better it will be to stay focused and motivated to give it life with all the little spices.
Vert helpful. You deliver your content without the snarky, pedantic tone that characterizes so many internet editors and other fiction writing instructors.
Your presentation is pure genius
You are exotically original
Diane, you are pure gold!
You give some solid advice! Thank you!
Mary Robinette-Kowal (might have misspelled that) also have good advice on how to do some of these, she calls it the "yes, but..." and "no, and".
Your videos are fantastic. Great graphics, nuanced explanations, and highly informative. Thanks for the great content.
Thankyou. It took a little time of searching on TH-cam until I found this. Thanks Diane
Your advice on how to handle slow middles is awesome! You're videos really get me inspired! :D
Great ideas, so well presented, Diane. Your visuals and voice add so much, too.
Amazing video and so useful. Thank you! One to watch more than once.
It was cool that you mentioned Blake Crouch's Dark Matter. I couldn't put it down.
This is super helpful, thank you!
I like how you are talking about pitfalls and showing the gameplay of pitfall !
In my most recent project, a science-fiction novel, I'm struggling with a cohesive plot. Thanks to videos like this, however, I think I have a notion of what do to.
Omg. This helped so much. I’ve been stuck for weeks. Thank you.
I can't believe you only have 18k subs. Your content is amazing.
I'd like to argue that it's okay to write stories with figures instead of characters, who are more about representing something or someone than they have unique personality, like Bertholt Brecht did in his plays.
I prefer writing dense, intrinsic characters, but some people might not be interested in writing them
A lot to chew on, here. I will watch this a few times and absorb all I can. Another good one, D.C.
Thank you for sharing all four at the beginning!
This video made me realize that my novel is severely lacking. Thank you though for making me realize this!
It has been *years* since I heard of the Two Princesses of Bamiere. This was one of my favorites as a child.
Same! I’m so glad someone else sees how wonderful this book is.
I love to hear your insight, and your voice is very pretty. You've actually helped me a lot in my writing journey, and some of what I've accomplished wouldn't have been possible if it weren't for you, so thank you, and I can't wait to watch more!
Best writing advice I've seen on TH-cam 😃
Really too good video. Very crisp, clear and full of content. Nicely talked-about.
If I may ask a question, what are sime unused character tropes these days, and what would you like to see more aften?
PLEASE ANSWER. :)
Personally, I would like to see more unreliable female narrators and characters who start "good" but descend into villainy. I appreciate stories where two morally gray characters are in opposition, rather than the story featuring an obvious hero and villain. However, everyone's tastes are different, and what I like might not be what the current publishing market is looking for!
@@QuotidianWriter thank you, I'll think about it.
0:34 how satisfying is that visual?!
Thank you for the wonderful video!!!
I'm stuck figuring out my plot! It would be a romance with a sci-fi setting. It started with the concept of Nadya (main character 1) finding out about her grandfather owing basically a king's ransom. While he insists that it's nothing to worry about she worries about it... A LOT since she's got some tied-up emotional stake in lost family/trusting. She becomes a runner/merc in an attempt to solve the problem. She lands herself a job with Thiago (main character 2), a hacker, who is a huge flirt (to a fault).
My biggest struggle is I want to do a romance/erotica, to show how these two weirdos come together, learn how to communicate effectively, and become a couple, but I don't know how to balance it with the ransom / what do I do once the ransom situation resolves itself.
EDIT: To clarify this originally started as characters that were developed for a tabletop RPG game but it's since been divorced from that.
HELP!
At 0:52, those pictures that represent writer-rules like Chekovs Gun and all such, where can i find more of them?
I want to hang such up on my walls where i live, reminding me of Rules and Concepts.
But where to find more of them; let alone those in this video here?
That sounds like a great plot! Honestly, the story might come across as more sci-fi-oriented than romance-oriented based on your premise. If you truly want to spotlight the romance/erotica plot, then Nadya's relationship with Thiago needs to be at the forefront. Based on your description, it feels more like a romantic subplot rather than the romance being THE plot, as readers might expect it to be in an erotica novel. I would consider how you can make their relationship the main thrust of the story.
Perhaps she needs to seduce and sleep with Thiago in order to get the information she needs, which relates to her goal of dealing with the ransom. Or maybe she's investigating Thiago's involvement in the ransom, but she can't deny their chemistry, so she's torn between throwing him to the cops and banging him, haha. Although you're writing sci-fi, the genre closest to what you're doing is paranormal erotica, so you could also check out some bestsellers in that category and see how they balance plot and sexy times. Keep writing! :)
I'll have to relook at my current drafts and check out your suggestions!
Thank you so much for the response! It means a lot!
@@QuotidianWriter What about my comment though??
@@slevinchannel7589 I answered in your other thread for you! :) Those illustrations and more are by an artist on Pixabay. pixabay.com/users/cdd20-1193381/?tab=popular&pagi=
Really Wonderful video.... Learnt a lot... Thanks.... Do keep posting often. I look forward to your videos. 👍
There's a school of thought that says someone who alerts others about a twist ending in a book (or other storytelling forms like movies, TV shows, or plays for that matter) is effectively spoiling it, even if they don't reveal what that twist is. This is especially true for those who like to go in blind. Giving notice about a twist creates a subconscious anticipation for it and robs the element of surprise.
The majority of Author tube or the authorities of writing and editing are from the West or Countries that treasures reading and the writing industry. Here in the region of Cordillera in the Philippines, it took me about 8 years to write and publish my book. The main reason is the Arts in general like writing, music, painting, sculpture, acting and the like are considered as "hobbies" and not a "real careers". People are focused on what they consider as "real careers" that are "paying jobs" like farming, carpentry, professions, businesses and the like. This is mainly due to the low standard of living or poverty that are prevalent here. It was difficult for me to find editors, beta readers, critic partners, support systems (family and friends who believed on my career choice), time to write (have to hustle in the real world to fulfill basic needs and to exhausted in my free time) and others. I end up skipping some steps and submitted my manuscript this year in a publishing company willing to help me publish as a novice writer. I don't know if this is necessary but it is my reality as a writer.
This is some good advice here! I found that my plotting problems/minus points often come from me gravitating to episodic structures or video game mission style plotting naturally. So for instance a chapter is more aking to a TV show episode or a mission given. They may have a larger story connecting them or at least a theme. Or show something about certain characters at the very least.
Downside is: It can often look like a lack of focus and drags on and on and on (aka some things keep occuring). Also huge ass word count to be written making any sort of publishing a moot point.
AMAZING! I love this channel! it's extremely helpful and interesting to listen to. I rarely comment on youtube videos but I really like the content. thank you!
I have almost never heard of the Two Princesses of Bamarre ever referenced anywhere. That book has been in my shelf for years, and I love it so much. Such a bittersweet story. This was so cool!
But the question "What happens if the protagonist walks away" is a great one I hsoul dbe thinking abut myself.
Ommggg this video has been so helpful
Ugh thank you so much!
Jotted some notes while listening. Thank you for the tips 😊
I've found that my writing uses dream logic and surrealism, which makes it hard for me to convey ideas clearly. I love that ambiguity and forming a paradox with clever wordplay, but I'm worried that doing so alienates my audience. How could one use the midpoint to ground the story and reconnect with the audience?
That is a tough challenge. I wonder if you could have part of the story feel more "grounded" or conventional than the rest, giving readers an anchor, and then you could launch into the more surreal, dreamlike aspects. You could return to that grounded story line at the midpoint to reorient the reader. Challenger Deep by Neal Shusterman uses this technique, switching between real life and a metaphorical dream world. I also recommend reading popular "surrealist" writers like Haruki Murakami to get a sense for how they balance ambiguity, wordplay, and audience connection. Keep writing! :)
@@QuotidianWriter Thank you so much! I'll definitely give them a read and focus on finding an anchor.
one thing that defines surrealism is the ability to transition.
one thing that defines a dream, is that the is an inkling that it is in fact a dream logic.
for both, it requires a deeper sense of suspension but a lighter spring.
take it easy on the vocabulary.
Very skillfully done!
The video was a very skillfully crafted object lesson.
Amid the coronavirus lockdown .... I'm binge-watching your videos. The content is damn amazing.
I am so thankful to have found your channel
5:10 sounds like a parallel world to Kingkiller Chronicles 😂
IT IS.
I thought of Hawkeye lol
I'm just here on my journey of watching every one of your videos.
Hmm... I thought I might be having a problem with the middle (at least, I was seeing it coming on). I am also fearful of unsatisfying endings... Until you mentioned 1984. Now, we know that Winston has made his choice in the opening few lines of the book. Everything else is build up to the inevitable. But one of the most evocative puzzle pieces of that ending has to do with the equation he writes in the dust of a table at the Chestnut Tree Café; 2+2=... In the original 1951 version, the typographers have not put the "5" that was intended by Orwell, which would have meant that Big Brother has won. It has been argued that this was an honest mistake, but I doubt it, as typography then was with lead type. So the question is, how satisfying is the ending, relative to the type of book this is? Also see Saint-Éxupéry's Sun Sand and Stars. Otherwise, I will stick with F. Scott Fitzgerald for unsatisfying endings.
That's correct just tell your story and try to make it relate to everyone
THESE BROKEN STARS. I LOVE THE TRILOGY OMG
It's definitely a unique series! Lilac and Tarver are my faves.
Love your views and thoughts and visuals and voice
Thank you so much
Excellent video and nice break down!
I loved the useful information. Thanks🙂
As Im doing Nanowrimo I’m loosing that first excitment I had about this story. Need to get that fire back!
It might be worth reading 'The Dip' by Seth Godin. He talks about this exact problem. He calls it, 'the dip'. See what he did there? Haha
12:50 I understand what you're saying, I shudder at basically subverting the entire premise of your story 60-90 through your story. Mostly cause it nearly always ends up being, "Oh, you were furthering the villains' plot all along" (either by being unwitting dups, being strung along when you think you're working against the villain, or having been fighting for the wrong side all along). It makes it feel like the first 60-90% of the story was a completely different story, and now it has no real end, and now we have this much shorter story with these characters we'll read about instead.
Bro, your videos are so informative.
Watched this again just now. Again, finding this very insightful. Interestingly I'd say that whilst, yes, ending with a bang instead of a whimper is the way to go, I've read two books in the last year or so that had very different but very unsatisfactory endings, one a whimper, (The Book of Strange New Things,) and one a bang, (Birnham Wood.) Both were reasonably readable up until the end, but both left me feeling, "What a stupid lazy ending." I've a feeling there's quite a trend of leaving books without a real resolution, without tying up at least most of the loose ends. And I hate it. As I say, it feels like the author's gotten tired of the journey, and just wants to wrap things up quickly so they can sell the book and move on. But either there is no real ending, or the ending is a cheap ploy for dramatic effect, that leaves you thinking, "What about all that other stuff?" and, "Oh. Right. Those characters really were that two-dimensional after all."
But I love your clear and sensible unpacking of this topic Diane. Very grateful you've taken the time to create this and upload to TH-cam. (I personally don't use any social media, unless TH-cam can be described as such.) Looking forward to the next piece you might choose to create and upload 🙂
Very well made and helpful!