We Need to Talk About Magic in Games
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- Magic systems in video games are due for a change and also is our thinking about it.
We're diving deep into the world of magic systems in video games and exploring why traditional spellcasting mechanics, like the ubiquitous fireball, often feel repetitive and uninspired. From Skyrim's unchanging fireball spell to innovative approaches in games like Magicka 2 and Divinity: Original Sin 2, we’ll examine how different games handle magic and why it's time for an evolution.
Magic in video games has been a staple for decades, but many games still rely on outdated systems. We’ll analyze how classic games like The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and Dark Age of Camelot use traditional mana pools and portrayed spells, while newer titles like Magicka 2 and The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild push the boundaries with innovative mechanics.
Join me as we explore how these games handle magic differently and what makes their systems stand out. I’ll also discuss potential future directions for magic in games, from procedurally generated spells to environmental and narrative integration.
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Featured games in order of appearance:
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (2011, Bethesda Game Studios)
World of Warcraft (2004, Blizzard Entertainment)
Diablo 2: Resurrected (2021, Blizzard Entertainment)
Magicka 2 (2015, Arrowhead Game Studios)
Path of Exile (2013, Grinding Gear Games)
Guild Wars 2 (2012, ArenaNet)
The Elder Scrolls Online (2014, ZeniMax Online Studios)
Dark Age of Camelot (2001, Mythic Entertainment)
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (2017, Nintendo EPD)
Final Fantasy X (2001, Squaresoft)
Final Fantasy VI (1994, Squaresoft)
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn (2013, Square Enix)
Divinity: Original Sin 2 (2017, Larian Studios)
Black Desert Online (2014, Pearl Abyss)
Spellbreak (2020, Proletariat, Inc.)
The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom (2024)
Throne and Liberty (EU/NA 2024, NCsoft)
Dragon's Dogma 2 (2024, Capcom)
Path of Exile 2 (tba, Grinding Gear Games)
Hogwarts Legacy (2023, Avalanche Software, Shiver Entertainment)
Okami (2006, Clover Studio)
Shadow of the Colossus (2005, Team Ico)
Journey (2012, Thatgamecompany)
Noita (2020, Nolla Games)
Black and White (2001, Lionhead Studios)
Elden Ring (2022, FromSoftware)
Featured movies in order of appearance:
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (2013)
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CONTENT:
00:00 - About Fireballs
00:59 - About Magic
02:13 - Traditional Magic
02:53 - Evolving Traditional Magic
04:01 - Conceptual Magic
05:54 - Narrative-Driven Magic
07:20 - Impactful Magic
08:51 - Final Thoughts
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#magicingames #gamedesign #videogameessay - เกม
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Magic can take on many forms. Customization features are found in a lot games but sometimes it's just the basics. What do you think magic in video games would look like if it wasn't for some modern literature? And what should it look like in a few years?
This video was a lot of fun to make. Especially, because I got to log in into my old Dark Age of Camelot Account. My first character in an MMO ever is STILL alive, can you believe that (no, it wasn't the caster)?! 🤣
Magic has always been my way of playing Skyrim
Especially necromancy\conjuration
When I think of magic, I often think of Avatar the Last Airbender. It's just the way that the bending was shown throughout the series, as an extension of ones self, therefore, there would be a lot of personalization to each individuals bending style, or in this case magic, I would love to see new games come out with the ability to customize your magic in a way you'd find cool or interesting. Great video I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this!
First, thank you very much for your words! And yes, Avatar is a great example! I have to admit I didn't come around to watch it until this year and I was blown away. Even though some bending techniques are the same within one element, each character had some special skills and executions that set them apart from one another to reflect their style and personality. Well, maybe we'll see an MMO sometime in the future, who knows. 😄
Great video! When I think of customization for magic I always think of Oblivion where you can make your own spells with different effects than just an average fireball.
Thank you very much, glad you've enjoyed it!
Ah yeah, Oblivion! Loved that game so much as well. Was a great time for me, bad time for school. 🤣 Funnily, ESO got that feature in a different form with the release of the "Golden Road"-Update too. Which is essentially the real Oblivion (game, not the portal, but also... in a sense.) 🤣
I think for an RPG to have more interesting magic, everything needs to be more powerful to keep it balanced. If Wizards can do nearly anything with their magic, the Warriors and Assassins need something that makes them special and just as appealing.
If I made a single player RPG like Skyrim, I would let players sacrifice any magic potential to instead gain limitless strength or speed potential. It would be cool if the Warrior was the class that could potentially throw a dragon by its tail, or if the Assassin was the class that could potentially dodge and deflect projectiles as fast as bullets.
Very good point! Goes along the line of saying "if everything is OP, nothing is". I love the idea of sacrificing your magical powers to gain others! Games that have all sorts of different "classes" in them should definitely aim for you not being able to chose which to play because they are all awesome! I say that because yes, I often fall for the flashy displays of magic spells too.
I'm already in love with your channel. Very easy subscription, my friend - I look forward to seeing you grow over the months and, hopefully, years to come.
Wow, that really means a lot to me, thank you so much! 💛
nice take, nicely presented, nice video. gotta sub to see what you've got cooking next!
Thank you very much! Yeah, well something's already cooking! 😄
I actually think about this topic way more than is probably reasonable to and if I ever actually get around to learning to edit videos and write a script it's actually a series I want to start at some point. You've already mentioned my personal favorite magic system, Magicka, but a couple of others are Mages of Mystrelia and Outward. Personally I think Mages of Mystrelia is pretty good already, the best way to improve that one would just to be add more base options for spells to build upon, the spellcraft system in that game is already incredible for both combat and puzzle solving. I view Outward more as a proof of concept though, I don't think another open world game has even tried to make a magic system that makes exploration a part of it's casting system but there's so much more that can be done with it. At the end of the day Outward only has 3 items in the world that are required for one of it's four casting methods and all of those items can be stockpiled in the first region. On top of that, there are really only like, 4 spells in that casting method that are really worth casting in the first place. Hopefully Outward 2 will fix these issues because I genuinely loved the meticulous inventory management and glyph set up required to fight properly and it's a shame that the glyph system is overshadowed by the rune and hex system and that the chakra spell casting is more or less just a weapon that uses mana than an actual casting class. Did I mention I think about this topic way too much? XD
Well, let me know if you ever upload that series, I'd definitely watch it! You do not have to wait until you've acquired the skills, just start and you'll learn - as I do with every video as well!
Mages of Mystrelia I will have a look at, I've never heard of that. Outward was kinda fun at the beginning but when I started playing with a friend it felt a bit empty at the beginning. Apparently, it got a lot better and I should check it out once more. But you're right, that there are games out there already thinking differently about magic. It shouldn't all be fireballs and chain lightning, magic has many forms. It's always good to rethink what you have, otherwise there would be no progress! So don't stop thinking about it! 😄
Great Video! I actually never or rarely think about the system how magic works in videogames. Although I play mostly as a mage in games😅But I'm also playing games more for the stories. I still like how dragon age handled magic with a lot of story around it with the fade and the blight and that magic could be the reason why everything happened.
Thank you so much! I suppose magic is something that goes quite early into "worldbuilding". If not, the world seems unfinished, unreasonable and even dull. Dragon Age was quite the game back then and I loved it! I suppose, in a way it portrays the real world, where our magic is "technology" and "bad things" are happening because of that too. Or what is your take on it?
This video was very well edited, but the script seems very scattershot, leaving me confused. Every example seemed to be a non-sequiter, with few comparisons drawn between each kind of magic, and each example was only explored for such a short time, I felt I could not really understand the details without having played the games myself. Not to mention that some of the ideas it seemed you were promoting as good, also raised big questions on how they could be practically applied - e.g: "Magic systems should be deeply tied to the story and character development... and allowing players to create and customise their own spells, leading to endless possibilities" - how can a player created spell be deeply tied to story and character development?
Overall it leaves me asking what the "point" of this video was? Which is a shame because this channel seems like it has a lot of potential. I'm not a "video essayist" or anything like that, so I don't know what the answer is myself, but maybe it could be good to try to go a little more in detail with the specifics of just one or two examples and draw more comparisons between them to talk about what does and doesn't work; what the strong suits of each approach are. Then maybe if you still want to include so many examples, turn a video like this into a short series of videos?
Thank you so much for taking your time to give me some honest feedback!
The topic is indeed very vast and I could have easily made an hour long video about it. Because of that, I aimed for a video to raise some questions and not answer everything as "good magic" is different for everyone out there. But I think that magic systems are due for a change and it can't just be mana and fireballs again and again. Of course, many games have proven this, I just wanted to highlight some of the things I thought worth mentioning. What you define as "future magic" is something I wanted to provoke you to think about.
As for your question about "player created spells": Let me talk about Divinity once more: It is an RPG much like Baldur's Gate 3 (which you probably heard about, I hope) but it is its own universe and has its own magic. In this game you can, for example, play Lohse. She hosts quite many spirits and otherwordly entities in her mind, but also something far more powerful. Apart from that, she is a musician. There are skills only she can you like "Maddening Song" which deeply reflects her story and being. It would have been awesome to also be able to create spells along those lines, like manipulate the mind of others, control illusions, summon spirits or whatever you can think of. If we think about RPGs, it wouldn't even matter if you'd play a non-preconstructed character. You would have to define your personality while playing (or already in the menu), your morale and thinking about the world. Then, you would have access only to certain aspects of magic which reflect exactly that, letting you craft from among those aspects the kind of magic that reflects what you are. I hope I could somehow explain what I mean. Unfortunately, English isn't my native language which you might have guessed already. :)
I appreciate your suggestion a lot! I will definitely take this into account on my next video. I still have a lot to learn, but I try to improve with every video. :)
You need the XP for destruction magic and a💯 and every perk in the tree the experience points are the icing on the cake 🎂🍰
Yes, XP and perks will change a lot if you go down that line - or any line actually. Definitely hurts more when you have it all maxed out! Imagine having only to throw a single fireball into a dungeon to clear it, though. 🤣
@@cyriliantales I can imagine that but imagine your enemies are constantly running from you because you are op that overpowered you have to use RALLY spell to keep them from running 💨 away to make them fight you and then you are playing vanilla Skyrim and then the game for some unknown reason crashes on you and you ask your self why by the gods this can't be happening I think because I am playing a Xbox 360 is what I think is happening I don't drink but now I am tempted to
@@cyriliantales maybe you should try another spell or do like Ido use a daedric dagger not enchanted to clear out the dungeon with I have killed a dragon with a daedric dagger 🗡️ before and even the dragon runs away that is life
Well, I could definitely give it a try, if I'm gonna do a Skyrim again. 😄👍🏻 Maybe there'll be other mods until then that adress what I was trying to point out in the video, who knows. 😊
Unpopular opinion, but I think Magic should be dangerous and be even in MMOs always "friendly fire" ... burn everyone and kill even all team members if they are in the way.
Also, if a spellcaster makes a firewall, the wall should burn him too if he walk in it.
Magic should be limited, like not more than 10 fireballs per hour ... and some really big spells should have cooldowns of days, weeks or even months.
I consider potions also as a form of magic, they should be limited and work different like in most games. For example a healing potion needs 15 minutes or so to show an effect.
@@paluxyl.8682 Ahh, very interesting! From the top of my head, I can't think of an MMO that did that. It values magic more than other forms of combat. In an MMO I just see the problem in people abusing this to deliberately hurt their own which would lead to a community become toxic fast like LoL. In a different environment other than MMO it might work! What would you be doing in your downtime, when you wait for spells? I mean you don't wanna feel useless for your group once you've spent your big spells and they carry on doing stuff. 😄 The health potion I can understand. I think this is a gameplay choice since Ou have to anticipate being hurt and if effects come in later without you actively causing them, they feel less impactful. In games we need instant feedback on our impacts. The potion being 'digested' in 15 minutes makes sense in a way. You could explain it with magic but then again why jug it anyway and not inject it with a syringe into your heart or so? 🤣
Maybe it comes down to the world and system that defines how 'meaningful' and 'realistic' magic should be. But would definitely have been fun to call a meteor storm on my guild members in Orgrimmar just for lols. 🤣
@@cyriliantales A magic user can do a lot while waiting to be able to use magic, just remember Gandalf ... he was very good in weapon combat. All Jedi in Star Wars are in theory magicians, they also use weapons like blaster and lightsabers.
The main problem of MMOs is that speed of the combat and the lack of friendly fire (magic, arrows and weapons should wound everybody), most are based on dps. And it seems that the combat is becomming from year to year faster and flashier. It must be 5 years ago that I have stopped to play MMOs (Blade & Soul was my last), I started to hate leveling, improving gear, run the same dungeons over and over again ... and most of all I started to dislike other players because of their mentality to talk only about dps and the playstyle. All was just sprinting fast and teleporting. I'm still triggered when I hear the word "Endgame". lol
Ah yes, 'downtime activities for magic users' I'd call that. That's actually really interesting! So a magic user would have to do research or maybe engage in political affairs as an advisor of sorts. Makes me think that in MMOs professions are usually separated from classes but maybe they should be combined so they complement each other.
It really comes down to the game and pacing if I enjoy grinding. If I find it fun an engaging and I don't feel pushed towards the endgame because fomo and friends racing towards it, I found it to be quite relaxing. Last time this happened was Elder Scrolls Online. I just did what I found fun to do. As for flashy displays, yes. I feel like magic should be meaningful (as elaborated in the video) and reflect your experience as a caster but it shouldn't be you buttonsmashing the whole time. I suppose MMOs are difficult to tackle that way but there must be a middleground between "realism" and making gameplay not boring.
It's probably us that should take the blame for many games being the way they are these days. Back in the days MMOs were a grind but the pacing was different... ah well, maybe I'm just nostalgic. 😄
@@cyriliantales I personally don't understand why didn't a third person MMO action adventure game exists.
I'm searching since years for one with nice graphics and a extremly big interesting open world.
There are hundereds or even thousands MMO RPGs ..... but not a single MMO Action Adventure game. :(
@@paluxyl.8682 Trying something new comes with huge risks and especially MMOs that consume tens or even hundreds of millions in development costs, I suppose it is just something they don't want to risk and try something completely different. But as we change, the games do as well. Don't give up hope. 😄