Great video. Really funny. I am actually fixing that code on a vehicle this morning. My problem was purge solenoid. The step by step video you made is absolutely invaluable..
The proper way to check for ESIM/small leak test on Chrysler is to first force run large leak test with the scan tool. Doing this allows you to test to see if the ESIM switch goes closed while testing and to see if a large leak test passes. If the ESIM switch goes closed while testing, then the ESIM is electrically and mechanically good. If it does not go closed while testing, the next step is to use a jumper wire at the ESIM connector and verify the switch goes closed on the scan tool data assuming it goes closed then the ESIM should be removed from the canister gingerly and rotated upside down to see if the ESIM check valve is sticking they like to get stuck. Now the system can be tested for a leak using a smoke machine. I prefer a machine that can air test first without using smoke. I only use smoke to find the source of the leak. I generally test at the canister I like splitting the system in 2. On this vehicle, since the canister does not have the purge solenoid connection there, I would test at the connection point where the quick connect fitting is at the frame rail/body going to the purge solenoid. From experience the best way to block off an ESIM, is to have an old ESIM filled with silicone capping off ESIM or pinching off an ESIM hose does not always work. From here all that has to be done is isolate the leak. Just my opinion checking for leaks at the gas cap with an adapter is a bad idea because gas cap leaks can be intermittent and removing the cap could hide the leak at time of diagnoses. Also you are wrong about process of elimination and asking for more time. Proper evaporative testing isolates leak(s) the only time more time is needed from the customer is when the tank has to be removed to isolate a leak on top of the tank, fuel pump, or fitting(s) which can not be seen without tank removal. I'm sorry but you did this all wrong. You should have been able to isolate the leak with your machine and you need better adapters for testing. Try using fuel pressure test adapters, making your own from old parts, or try Dorman yes Dorman makes adapters.
Hey Anthony, If you listened closely in the beginning I mentioned that this car passed the large leak just fine verifying the ESIM was able to close the switch...but that doesn't do anything for our small leak test. My testing started at the purge through the whole system plugging the ESIM fresh air hose. My second smoke test was from the canister through the entire system the other way. This vehicles next step was to drop the gas tank to check up there...but the customer did not approve. I'm not sure what you think I did wrong. Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
@@GoTechTraining What think you are doing wrong is testing the whole system each way then assuming you have to drop the tank. That is incorrect you did not break the system up to isolate the leak. What if you did drop the tank and found no leak? What if the leak was in the purge solenoid line vapor line going to the purge solenoid itself or a pin hole leak in the filler tube. You did not isolate. Telling a customer a fuel tank has to be removed means the rest of the system is not leaking. My bad on missing your large leak ESIM results it was a long video. Cheers
Doesn’t Chrysler/jeep run large leak test during normal engine operation? It can only run a small leak after engine operation during which it already evaluated the system for large leak. So if it ever arises to a small leak detection you can deduce with certainty that the large leak is not a problem.
I don't know how successful it would be, but maybe with a section of vacuum hose held to your ear and the other end near the fuel pump module, could you possibly hear the leak at the top of the tank with the smoke machine running? Definitely dropping the tank would be the best way to verify, but, like you, I always strive for a 100% accurate diagnosis. Keep up the good work, Mike!
I had an 06 Liberty with a bad seam in the canister that would allow just a little wisp of smoke to be visible before the pressure of the smoke machine became enough for the leak to seal itself. Once I saw that wisp leak out, I wouldn't see any more smoke no matter how long I left the smoke on. It took a few tries to isolate the source of the smoke because I couldn't move from under the hood to under the vehicle fast enough to be sure the leak wasn't from the tank instead of the canister. It was a comeback repair (NVLD was also proven faulty), so once I figured out the canister was leaking, I tried sealing the seam up with the right stuff RTV and and then wrapping it up in black tape. It looked like it would have worked fine, but when I pushed the canister mounting ball studs back into the grommets, it actually broke the bottom of the canister wide open and I didn't know it until the next comeback. At least my customer was really patient about it.
That's crazy Shaun! I wonder if the C02 system "Bullseye" from ATS would have helped find that failure. The molecules are smaller I believe leading to the leak being more prevalent. Glad your customer was patient! Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Mike ,i used a rubber plug in the esim to seal system ,also use a hand vac pump on purge valve,i m find i lot of bad ones, they do not hold vac at all or drop to maybe 5"
Hey Rich, a plugs a great idea! I have seen a ton of purge issues as well. That's what I thought this one was going to be at first. Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
I' ve had success cleaning the ESIM with alcohol/compressed air but that would be stop-gap while waiting for a part or to verify bad ESIM. Great training video - thanks
You need a purge soliniod should not see smoke there, you should be using a light on the smoke and see it better. I would like you have proved the reapair for us.
You should keep a small tiny flashlight in your pocket. They make tiny ones. I carry one and don't even notice it anymore. Im the type I like empty pockets during work.
The ECU is too sensitive in setting codes for very minor evap leaks. I think a higher threshold should be met before the pesky check engine light comes on.
Unfortunately, that's not what the government thinks...not long and we'll see .010" leaks setting check engine lights. Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Hey Kennedy, I use the machine from Redline, it's a fantastic tool. I've heard people have good luck with other machines as well. As long as it's designed for EVAP you should be all set. Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Hahah yeh Marco, I have ;) None of the plastic caps I had would seal it. I have 3 different smoke machines in the shop here, all came with caps. Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Great video Mike. Quick question though, I have a matco branded redline smoke machine , made for evap. Still somewhat new to evap leak testing as we are transmission specialists. With the dial on the flow gauge to regulate smoke/pressure, how do I know if I am over pressurizing the system with smoke? I worked on a Hyundai sonata a few months ago that had a bad leak from the fuel pump module , and all the lines (We are in the Milwaukee area , everything is full of rust). After fixing the leaks it had a code for vent system stuck closed and it ended up being a plugged up canister. I am assuming since the PCM couldn't test the system before because it had such a large leak, that it wasn't able to test the vent system. It very well could of had 2 separate problems but I am afraid I maybe over pressurized the system and saturated the charcoal? Is this possible?
Alex, great question! If the smoke machine is purpose built for EVAP testing then you are good to go. They will self regulate usually 5 PSI and under. 5 PSI is usually the max you want to put into a system. BTW, we are located in Fond Du Lac, know all about that rust :) Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
I disconnect the vent hose and put a vacuum cap on it. You didn't smoke test the canister to prove anything. I also would replace the vent filter with that much dirt. I enjoy your videos and usually learn a lot. I feel this video is a fail.
Hey David, the canister was smoked during the first test when I went in through the purge hose and pinched the fresh air hose. Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
I guess my issue is not seeing a zero on the smoke machine, but seeing a borderline pass on a "not calibrated in several years" smoke machine. I feel it could go either way. I never saw anything definitive in your test.
You are completely correct David. I wish I could have found a definitive answer..but the next step was to pull the gas tank down and look and the customer didn't approve it. Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
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Video starts at 9:23
Great video. Really funny. I am actually fixing that code on a vehicle this morning. My problem was purge solenoid. The step by step video you made is absolutely invaluable..
Thanks Mike, glad the video was able to help!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Thats a nice looking jeep. They must take really good care of it. They do have the best working on it.
The proper way to check for ESIM/small leak test on Chrysler is to first force run large leak test with the scan tool. Doing this allows you to test to see if the ESIM switch goes closed while testing and to see if a large leak test passes. If the ESIM switch goes closed while testing, then the ESIM is electrically and mechanically good. If it does not go closed while testing, the next step is to use a jumper wire at the ESIM connector and verify the switch goes closed on the scan tool data assuming it goes closed then the ESIM should be removed from the canister gingerly and rotated upside down to see if the ESIM check valve is sticking they like to get stuck. Now the system can be tested for a leak using a smoke machine. I prefer a machine that can air test first without using smoke. I only use smoke to find the source of the leak. I generally test at the canister I like splitting the system in 2. On this vehicle, since the canister does not have the purge solenoid connection there, I would test at the connection point where the quick connect fitting is at the frame rail/body going to the purge solenoid. From experience the best way to block off an ESIM, is to have an old ESIM filled with silicone capping off ESIM or pinching off an ESIM hose does not always work. From here all that has to be done is isolate the leak. Just my opinion checking for leaks at the gas cap with an adapter is a bad idea because gas cap leaks can be intermittent and removing the cap could hide the leak at time of diagnoses. Also you are wrong about process of elimination and asking for more time. Proper evaporative testing isolates leak(s) the only time more time is needed from the customer is when the tank has to be removed to isolate a leak on top of the tank, fuel pump, or fitting(s) which can not be seen without tank removal. I'm sorry but you did this all wrong. You should have been able to isolate the leak with your machine and you need better adapters for testing. Try using fuel pressure test adapters, making your own from old parts, or try Dorman yes Dorman makes adapters.
Hey Anthony, If you listened closely in the beginning I mentioned that this car passed the large leak just fine verifying the ESIM was able to close the switch...but that doesn't do anything for our small leak test. My testing started at the purge through the whole system plugging the ESIM fresh air hose. My second smoke test was from the canister through the entire system the other way. This vehicles next step was to drop the gas tank to check up there...but the customer did not approve. I'm not sure what you think I did wrong.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
@@GoTechTraining What think you are doing wrong is testing the whole system each way then assuming you have to drop the tank. That is incorrect you did not break the system up to isolate the leak. What if you did drop the tank and found no leak? What if the leak was in the purge solenoid line vapor line going to the purge solenoid itself or a pin hole leak in the filler tube. You did not isolate. Telling a customer a fuel tank has to be removed means the rest of the system is not leaking. My bad on missing your large leak ESIM results it was a long video. Cheers
Doesn’t Chrysler/jeep run large leak test during normal engine operation? It can only run a small leak after engine operation during which it already evaluated the system for large leak. So if it ever arises to a small leak detection you can deduce with certainty that the large leak is not a problem.
I don't know how successful it would be, but maybe with a section of vacuum hose held to your ear and the other end near the fuel pump module, could you possibly hear the leak at the top of the tank with the smoke machine running? Definitely dropping the tank would be the best way to verify, but, like you, I always strive for a 100% accurate diagnosis. Keep up the good work, Mike!
Hey Joseph, maybe that would work. Never tried it. I'll give it a shot next time!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
I had an 06 Liberty with a bad seam in the canister that would allow just a little wisp of smoke to be visible before the pressure of the smoke machine became enough for the leak to seal itself. Once I saw that wisp leak out, I wouldn't see any more smoke no matter how long I left the smoke on. It took a few tries to isolate the source of the smoke because I couldn't move from under the hood to under the vehicle fast enough to be sure the leak wasn't from the tank instead of the canister. It was a comeback repair (NVLD was also proven faulty), so once I figured out the canister was leaking, I tried sealing the seam up with the right stuff RTV and and then wrapping it up in black tape. It looked like it would have worked fine, but when I pushed the canister mounting ball studs back into the grommets, it actually broke the bottom of the canister wide open and I didn't know it until the next comeback. At least my customer was really patient about it.
That's crazy Shaun! I wonder if the C02 system "Bullseye" from ATS would have helped find that failure. The molecules are smaller I believe leading to the leak being more prevalent. Glad your customer was patient!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
These videos are great. Thank you for making them and educating us.
Thanks!!!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Mike ,i used a rubber plug in the esim to seal system ,also use a hand vac pump on purge valve,i m find i lot of bad ones, they do not hold vac at all or drop to maybe 5"
Hey Rich, a plugs a great idea! I have seen a ton of purge issues as well. That's what I thought this one was going to be at first.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Excellent job Mike.
Thanks Jeremy!!!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Hi Mike, I'm a little late but here I am !!!!
Hey David, better late than never :)
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
I' ve had success cleaning the ESIM with alcohol/compressed air but that would be stop-gap while waiting for a part or to verify bad ESIM. Great training video - thanks
Interesting AN, fortunately I had a new part here already :)
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
You need a purge soliniod should not see smoke there, you should be using a light on the smoke and see it better. I would like you have proved the reapair for us.
You should keep a small tiny flashlight in your pocket. They make tiny ones. I carry one and don't even notice it anymore. Im the type I like empty pockets during work.
Got another one for ya. IOD Fuse went out. Stock Radio, was working fine when I arrived at work, was out when I went to leave. Help
The ECU is too sensitive in setting codes for very minor evap leaks. I think a higher threshold should be met before the pesky check engine light comes on.
Unfortunately, that's not what the government thinks...not long and we'll see .010" leaks setting check engine lights.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
what type of smoke machine do you recommend for diagnosing evap leaks on most vehicles.
Hey Kennedy, I use the machine from Redline, it's a fantastic tool. I've heard people have good luck with other machines as well. As long as it's designed for EVAP you should be all set.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Have you heard of plastic caps? Most quality smoke testers come with them.
Hahah yeh Marco, I have ;) None of the plastic caps I had would seal it. I have 3 different smoke machines in the shop here, all came with caps.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Do you have a place where you got new parts? And part numbers?
Hey Bobby, check out WVEBrand.com.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Great video Mike. Quick question though, I have a matco branded redline smoke machine , made for evap. Still somewhat new to evap leak testing as we are transmission specialists. With the dial on the flow gauge to regulate smoke/pressure, how do I know if I am over pressurizing the system with smoke? I worked on a Hyundai sonata a few months ago that had a bad leak from the fuel pump module , and all the lines (We are in the Milwaukee area , everything is full of rust). After fixing the leaks it had a code for vent system stuck closed and it ended up being a plugged up canister. I am assuming since the PCM couldn't test the system before because it had such a large leak, that it wasn't able to test the vent system. It very well could of had 2 separate problems but I am afraid I maybe over pressurized the system and saturated the charcoal? Is this possible?
Alex, great question! If the smoke machine is purpose built for EVAP testing then you are good to go. They will self regulate usually 5 PSI and under. 5 PSI is usually the max you want to put into a system. BTW, we are located in Fond Du Lac, know all about that rust :)
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
You are forgetting the possible leak at fuel filler cap.
For the life of me, I can never see smoke on these Chrysler small leaks. I have to use bubble solution.
They are good at hiding the smoke i guess :)
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
I disconnect the vent hose and put a vacuum cap on it. You didn't smoke test the canister to prove anything. I also would replace the vent filter with that much dirt. I enjoy your videos and usually learn a lot. I feel this video is a fail.
Hey David, the canister was smoked during the first test when I went in through the purge hose and pinched the fresh air hose.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
I guess my issue is not seeing a zero on the smoke machine, but seeing a borderline pass on a "not calibrated in several years" smoke machine. I feel it could go either way. I never saw anything definitive in your test.
You are completely correct David. I wish I could have found a definitive answer..but the next step was to pull the gas tank down and look and the customer didn't approve it.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Have this information in spanish?
Hey, sorry we do not.
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
@@GoTechTraining ok mike no problem.but just i want to know if there is some measure resistence (ohm) of swicth ESIM.? Please
Please in spanish , the videos are very good
Thank you for watching! Sorry, we no longer have a Spanish speaking instructor :(
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
I think there's leaks between all the engineers ears........ lol
Hahah yeh for sure!!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor