@@eroero830 Be prepared for "Background Processes are not running" and NORDVPN will not connect you. Just wait an hour or so, don't go online and try again. A reboot won't work. I sometimes just uninstall and reinstall then it might work. 8 times out of 10 it is OK, just be prepared for when it doesn't. I still use it though.
Im waiting to go to court for £360, been going on for 2 years now. The car park used to be free, they then added signs about new charges against the floor, so when you reverse into the bay you cant see it and because there was cars in all the other bays you couldnt see the signs. I sent them photos to show this and nope still taking me to court for a £1.60 ticket i didnt buy. How does £1.60 go to £360? What makes it worse the whole day is £6 so I could have parked my car there for 60 days for the fee they are charging me, they didnt lose £360 by me being there for 1 hour...
Just people exploiting the fact that our government gives no fucks about us. When one company gets away with stupid shit like that the rest figure it out and do the same. Society gets worse but nothing changes. This is because the people we have elected to keep this behaviour in check through legislation have abandoned us because they live in their bubbles of elite dinner parties, networking in wealthy social circles and elitist ways of thinking. Until we change the system we use to elect our representatives then they will continue their plan of turning this country into the land of exploitation (which means opportunity in their circles). The only solution is mass rebellion but they've spent decades using propaganda and the media to dismantle communities to divide people up. The strikes under Thatcher shook them to their core and highlighted how small of a grip they have on us therefore they've been working to eliminate that ever since.
c-yc5rk There should be a limit on the maximum a parking company can charge e.g. £100 so that the cost can never escalate because this is just parking! Furthermore, parking companies should pay compensation to drivers who are incorrectly charged. Currently there is nothing to stop a parking company from speculatively charging every car in a car park on the basis that some people will pay out of fear regardless of whether they were in breach of the rules.
It's the escalation in the fees if you don't pay that I find unreasonable i.e a 50p parking ticket turns to £70 if not paid within xdays it doubles to £ 140 so most people just pay the 70 to avoid bigger and bigger fees it's a total disgrace
Absolutely. But properly staffed and funded. We used to have a CA office locally. We might still have - hardly matters, as everyone has given up on it. I needed it - desperately - some years ago. But gave up when it became clear it was staffed by people who had given up on everything but manning the phones - and they were failing even at that.
I tried to contact CA this past week - all I got was ‘the office is unmanned please ring our help line’. I rang the help line to be informed by an automated voice ‘no one is available to respond to your call’. I loathe what the conservative party has done to my country since 2010.
I volunteer with CAB, I couldn't agree more we get too many cases like this which are a waste of time, they often cost more for them to go to court than they would get back as well, yet they still insist on going ahead causing untold stress for decent people.
Used to park a good few years ago in a retail park for the rail station…parked as usual, arrived back in the evening to a clamp and had to pay £50 release fee…they were waiting around the corner for folk to park, then installed signs and fraudulently caught everyone. I called the parking firm the next day, secured the details of the owners of the land including the employee who had authorised the parking firm…wrote to him personally to ensure that he was clear that having approved the fraudulent parking firm’s actions he is liable and a Small Claims would be issued within two weeks unless my £50 is refunded double quick. A £50 refund arrived from the parking firm within a week.
As a sub contractor from up north when working in London I always videod myself paying at the meter,showing any problems faulty meters and also photographed the ticket on the windscreen and photographed the vans position on the road or in the bay,
That’s what I do. I have received notices from these people making up all manner of so-called breaches that when I showed them the photo to prove that what they are saying is BS they back off immediately! 😂
@@jujutrini8412 Yes, I learned that lesson when one of the largest ones in the UK tried it on. They waited a couple of weeks then sent a letter saying I had not paid. By sheer chance I had not thrown the ticket out (which I guess is why they delay 2 weeks as most people will have discarded the ticket by then, so if you paid with cash you by then would have no way to prove your innocence and they could steal £100+ from you, supported by the court if you tried to fight it). It was very clearly a deliberate policy and made me wonder how many hundreds of thousand they extort this way. I replied sending a copy of the ticket and said I looked forward to meeting them in court.. . They backed down. So now I keep any tickets for several months.
I've started doing this after the local hospital car parking company tried to screw me over when their machine was not working. Their "evidence" was clearly falsified and they were unable (or unwilling) to provide any photographic evidence. They took it all the way to court and they only pulled out the Friday on the week before the court date. I guess they were hoping I would just pay up under threat. No chance.
@@Mr-J... I’m just a suspicious bastard and trust no one, it’s always a trump card to keep for when you need to use it. I would love to have the time, money and balls to let them get so far into a lie take me to court and for me to whip out the video and photos in court, but it’s nice to dream, plus I wouldn’t trust the courts to rule in my favour even with the evidence.
Had a similar problem. Appealed, rejected. Appealed with BPA….rejected. Agreed to pay fine in 3 instalments by cheque, ( just to be awkward) sent 3 post dated cheques which one solution decided to cash AT once. Complained, money refunded and ticket cancelled. Legislation needs to change. Will I ever park in a private managed car park again….. NEVER. Profiteering is disgraceful.
The other issue is whether the parking company is justified in obtaining your details from DVLA. On ANPR, the parking company are supposed to check the tickets for validity BEFORE obtaining your details from DVLA. That is also covered within the BPA rules.
When i was sent a £100 fine for supposedly parking in an Asda car park for 24 hrs i asked for photo evidence of every vehicle movement for the stated 24 hrs and they cancelled straight away
I wouldn't deny you asked for the info. I would doubt they cancelled straightaway. They will send a list of reg plates that went past their ANPR cameras. That list is usually redacted "for privacy" but really it is so you can't analyse the data properly and prove them to be lying b******s.
It is unfair, but point the finger at the right party. In most instances those fees are either taken by the broker, or by the insurer to give to the broker. The fee ensures that they get their commission no matter what.
@@leblueawoo You can only tell that to the court; and that has risks. All teh telecoms/mobile companies are crap - I would add to that list all the electricy companies.
The time to bring these nasty parking to account is long overdue. These are the same greedy companies that used to go round clamping vehicles before it was made illegal. Also, who gave the DVLA the right to pass on the vehicle details to these companies. This is totally wrong.
A while ago one of the consumer programmes on TV set up an entirely fake parking company on no more than a letter heading land sent one of their own registrations to DVLA along with the small fee ... DVLA sent the keeper details!
Similar thing happened to my mother. She driven to a DIY store ealy in the morning and bought some items. This took less than 30 mins and left the store at 10:00 and later she returned back to the store to refund some items and left the car park at 18:10, so she visited twice that day. We received a £100 charge letter by post stating that my mother has parked at the property of the store for 516 mins (roughly 9hrs). Luckily I took the car out for an MOT service during that day and I pointed this out to them using their online appeal and they just waved it off with no explanation or an apology.
As the parking company is no longer a member of the BPA are they still bound by the BPA's rules on keying errors? Also, if they are no longer a member of the BPA, how were they able to access personal details of the registered owner of the car?
The BPA rules and guidelines are generally a reflection of the law. They exist, supposedly, to prevent things going to court that the parking company would be sure to lose. That's the value proposition of the BPA to the parking companies. Follow our guidelines and you won't have deal with the legal stuff so much. Obviously not quite how it goes down in practice but it makes nice window dressing.
1, how are they still obtaining keeper information if they are not a member of a required trade body? DVLA should get sued for breach of GDPR! 2, Name the company! Stop protecting these scummy companies.
@@S.Trades Private vs business access is different. Parking companies (PC) sign up to the KADOE contract with the DVLA. Under that contract, the PC has to be a member of a DVLA Accredited Trade Association, i.e British Parking Associates. No member = no data and is a breach of GDPR! So yes, DVLA should not have given out the data in the first place. The main issue are these trade associations, all are completely shady, none really work to the letter of the law and none are impartial. The BPA I remember used to be registered in my town... but I knew the address, there are no offices there. Went to check... and nope, no BPA. The entire system is frankly rotten. Parking companies make money from fines, not the parking charges!
there is also a further issue its really easy to get accreditation with a trade association, One day some nefarious person will sit outside a court, police station or military base, animal testing centre and record number plates, and they get private addresses of these vehicles from DVLA , its a serious security breach which can lead to peoples homes being targetted.
@@khalidacosta7133 Even when a clear breach of data can be proven, ICO don't give a damn and private litigation is outside the economics of us mere plebs. ICO will only move on something when enough public pressure has mounted that they cannot ignore and/or where the government are going to get to pocket the fine.
I got taken to Court by VCS for exceeding the parking duration time even though I proved that I did not. Took 5 minutes for the judge to dismiss the case. Even their solicitor was embarrassed to have to represent them. This bullying should be outlawed and their licence revoked 🤔
I fully agree with this sentiment. Did you know that every year approximately 750,000 bulk financial claims (penalty charges) proceed to default judgment (CCJs)! Many of the victims are in a very vulnerable position or are unable to defend the claims due to various human factors including fear or challenges with literacy. The court documents are another topic for discussion in terms of minimum literacy requirements.
If they are using ANPR cameras, they should be able to record when he entered. Before leaving, he could enter his plate details on the payment machine and it would automatically search and identify that plate and provide him an amount to pay. He pays, payment gets assigned to his plate, he drives out, the same ANPR cameras record him leaving, job done. Local supermarket uses exactly this principle. Sounds like their system isn't fit for purpose. Hope he wins the case (he should do, seems like a slam dunk case to me).
I have consistently found the ANPR registration is incorrect. In my case the VRN is ##68 V##. Yet the machine will give the option for putting the incorrect registration as ##68 Y## replacing the V for Y. I have to manually override this, if I were not to, who would be culpable?
@BBB I'm appealing against 2 Bristol Clean Air Zone (CAZ) fines at the moment, and Bristol City Council have stated I am liable because of "Code 17J". When I looked this code up there was plenty of information on it linked to Bristol City Council, BUT when I looked for it on the gov legislation there is no mention of a Code 17J at all! I'm under the impression that Bristol City Council thinks it can write anything it wants into law! If this is the case and there's no government legislation for Code 17J - is this considered fraud? Because they are not only making money through false representation, but they are using force and fear in their approach. I would love to know your thoughts on this.
I had a similar problem with an NCP ANPR carpark. I entered my registration and a sticky or faulty button missed the second letter of the number plate. So the fee was paid and my number plate minus the letter was printed on the ticket. I was unaware of the error but kept the ticket in the vehicle as I do all parking tickets for a while. A month later I had a fine through the door. I rang them and after several phone calls and emailing a photograph of the ticket They eventually removed the fine. They did not say this though they actually said they would assess it and get back to me. I never heard anything back. So great for pointing the finger but not so great at accepting errors with their machines and nor using common sense.
The exact same thing happened to me only a few months ago. Wife was parking at Woking train station, entered reg number, but only the 1st part of the registration number was saved. I received a fine of £85, disputed the fine and enclosed the receipt and told them that parking was paid for. They came back to me and said they would wave the fee for a £20 admin fee, due to the error. I replied back through POPLA saying that it’s not my fault their equipment didn’t work properly, so no I won’t be paying anything thank you. And if you do force me to pay, I’ll claim back the equivalent amount through small claims court. Anyway they dropped the charge, bullies 😅
For quite some years now,I've always wherever possible,avoided the private car parks as they're run by nothing more than legitimised thieves and crooks. I also always take a photo of the ticket when placed in the screen,because again,I totally distrust the system. In one instance,this provided proof that the private car park was completely in the wrong-cost me time and effort to fight,but these thieving parking bastards make my blood boil.
Is it possible to play them at their own contractial game? If you are fairly sure that the penalty charge will be rejected (either at appeal or court). Spell out your charges for your time/letter etc if they wish to continue their action. Any further pursuit of their claim constitues acceptionof your terms. Then issue them with an invoice if the penalty charge is overturned.
I certainly on my accountants advice did this with debt collectors trying to enforce a payment for a cancelled mobile phone contract. They sent a letter to appear at a court in Scotland. I pointed out I was a self-employed contractor and would be when I won seeking for them to pay all my expenses including hotels and 2 days at my then day rate. They backed down so far you could almost hear a sonic boom.
@@grantclay66 I'd be surprised. They don't need to chase awkward, obstinate non payers. They are after the low hanging fruit, the easy pickings. But I'm not a lawyer.
I had something very similar. I got one digit wrong on the ticket. Didn't realise. But, luckily I kept the ticket, as 2 weeks later the first letter arrived! I went to the shop that I parked at, and asked them to deal with it, they said no. I then appealed, and lost, and appealed again, and again, I lost. I had a couple of demands arrive, and I said I paid for parking, and have the ticket. Either take me to court, or go away. This went on for about a year, and then, finally, the court letter arrived. I filled in my defence, and attached a copy of the ticket. The court said it was a hearing claim, and gave a time and date at my local court. 3 days before the hearing, I presume a lawyer was preparing for my case. I had a call. We're dropping the case. Followed by an email to say they were no longer pursuing me. I was never told why, but presume the lawyer took one look, said I'm not going to argue this, and dropped it. But, the main thing that got me, was it went on for so long, and I've never known anyone win any of these silly appeals you do. I didn't get stressed, as I've been in business for so long, this sort of thing is a minor niggle. I would love to be able to sue the butts of them
My Father has had multiple from various parking firms. Partly incorrect reg, sometimes the ANPR camera not registering correctly. Every time, he has told them to stick it. The "debt" gets sold to a dept collection agency (after they increase the "fine" to £200+) .. Every time, the debt collection agency end up just dropping it after being told to go swivel. Personally, I would ALWAYS demand they take me to court (unless it was clearly my fault)
My wife was fined at a parking in wales. The thing is her car was parked at our flat the whole day sent a letter asking them to prove by a photo of the vehicle and number plate. I then received a letter saying that they had the wrong car; how was that possible? I think they just choose a random number and send them a charge notice
Thanks for this. Under human error by Reason J, 1990, a mistake is a circumstance where an operator thinks about a task then correctly dos the wrong thing. In this case as described he followed the machine instructions and the machine provided the wrong product. If the ticket machine isn’t working properly, there is nothing to show that and there are no instructions to say what to do if the machine breaks, the customer did not make a mistake.
My partner got a ticket in a SIP car park in Sheffield because we read on the sign ''Concessions do not apply for disabled drivers - Vehicles in disabled bays must have a fully visible disabled badge on display in the windscreen'' now we took this as we didn't have to pay for parking because we displayed her Blue Badge, but the ANPR got us coming in and going out and sent a ticket, but I've done a google search and can't find anything on if we misinterpreted it or not. Ended up costing me £160 as we tried to challenge it and they said no and then put fees on top of the payment, in the end I ended up paying it as I didn't want her having the stress of the letters.
I had a Stopping in a no stopping area for stopping to go through a security barrier at Bristol Airport! I do think the law nerds to come down on those who use faulty tech.
Including hospital parking. I owed £2, fed a tenner in and got £5 back! After months of trying to find out who was responsoble, writing letters to the hosp telling them no one would contact me about my 'short change' I finally got thro to someone who told me another hospital manages the money. I wrote a very terse letter and they sellotaped my additional pounds coins to a piece of paper and posted back to me. No apology 😂 They were ticked off 😂😂😂 It was worth the challenge as I believe in standing your ground when you are right.
What people in the UK aren't usually aware of is that their bureaucracy and their bureaucrats are among the most malicious and purposefully adversarial in the world. Usually, bureaucrats do not go out of their way to this extent in order to persecute, humiliate or aggravate the individuals in their grasp - they just do what they're told by sometimes unfair or unjust rules, and even in dictatorships there is usually a measure of softening perceived hardships in outlying cases. Not as much in the UK where antipathy towards the subjects of a bureaucratic procedure seems to be the expected norm. The conduct of institutions like the famously hostile environment of the Home Office or the Post Office, the outrageous conduct of the Met and some other police forces differs from other democratic countries in the sheer amount of personal grudge, iniquity and malignance. This has seeped from state institutions to private corporations, where unchecked greed, another current-day British value, is added on top.
We used to have a separate Law Advice Centre but it merged with the CA. The service is still called a Law Centre but they don't provide any legal advice.... If you look up Law Works, their probono 'services' are University Law Students looking for cases to study, no help for 26 weeks of the year when the students are on holiday, or they have exams or are on a month long freshers week. I can save you the bother of calling the CA for legal help as all they will say is "You need to a solicitor as you need formal legal advice". My response is always if I could afford a solicitor, I wouldn't be calling them. The huge sums of money that go into advices centres is spent on signposting people until they end up back where they started, it's an absolute farce.
These companies will approach any company with a car park. I know of many medical centres being paid £500 a month to manage their free car park. Yes, they intend to make money off the "fines".
If he wont say it I will. It does not matter if you put wrong reg in. As soon as they accept payment both sides have accepted a legal contract of parking for a vehicle and both parties have to abide by the law. As long as you can supply a receipt or bank statement showing this, there is nothing they can do. If they do start hassling you then send your own invoices for your own time, charge at the same rate they are charging you, you are well within your rights to do this. Also always ask under a FOI request for all video and admin data regarding your case, plus a copy of all their operating licence's regarding data usage and storage of data, including if its on site or off site data storage. It will cost them a lot of man hours and they will probs drop it.
Lat year my dad went to court (and won) over car parking charges. The machine was out of order and a sign told him to use the "nearest available" pay point - which he did. Same company, same tariff, but the alternative machine was pay & display and not ANPR and was apparently for a different car park. The company did not accept any appeals, they gave him the wrong reference number to the mediator, their lawyer refused to represent them in court over the case and the case was dismissed immediately.
My wife had similar with a parking app. Had multiple vehicles on the same app , payed for parking in the correct car park but used the wrong registration by mistake. Provided them with all the information and proof , they could see what had happened but wouldn’t back down .
I had a company try to claim that I stayed over 6 hours when I visited their car park twice in one day. I appealed giving them the exact times I entered and left the car park with the GPS co-ordinates of the entrance/exits I used. They denied my explanation, but told me I could appeal, so I emailed them asking for CCTV footage of the relevant entrance and exits at the times I left (to the minute, I was using a GPS tracker a lot at that time), and they emailed back to say they rejected my appeal, but they cancelled it 'out of good faith'. Now when I enter or exit a car park I tap the 'incident' button on my dashcam, and get locked footage of me exiting and exiting the car park at that time. I also take photos of the ticket in situ in the car, and the parking signs / policy
It’s not just Parking charge notices. It’s ALL business. I ALWAYS challenge fees and charges applied for miss payments. For example I missed an insurance payment. The company then charged me £27.50 and threatened to record the missed payment to the credit reference agencies. I sued them via small claims court and I got my money back pretty quickly…. I ALWAYS do this as charges and fees must be proportionate.
I got a fine from a parking company, when i had paid for the ticket. After a few communications they final agreed that i had in fact paid for parking, and they said that in that case they would reduce the fine down to only £30 from £90. I told them thanks for confirming that i had paid for my ticket and they would not get any money from me. Never heard anything back.
Better system: remove all number plates from the tickets, bin the anpr system and either have a gate or a warden. Done. Even better all tickets in ungated carparks would be transferable based on time. Much nicer for the public.
My partner is a dementia carer. She takes some time selecting items in our local Sainsburys, and unlike most Sainsbury car parking (according to their website) its an hour and a half not two. Coupled with mandatory self checkout the minutes soon pass. She was nineteen minutes over, and got the inevitable from their chosen enforcement company. Went to ask customer services and was totally rebuffed by a disinterested staff member: Take it up with them. On her behalf I tried to email Sainsbury head office and whether by accident or design there seems to be nothing there. Surprise. Agreed, this car park is abused by locals who park due to the very enthusiastic 'revenue enhancement officers' employed by Barnet Council, but to have no facility for redress in branch for a genuine error is (in my opinion) not particularly good customer relations? We paid, better get it out the way, but Sainsbury's has lost a customer to Asda for something that could have been resolved locally without confrontation....
@@S.Trades Exactly. Apologies if I didn't make this clear. I can empathise with Sainsburys to a degree as it is quite obvious that vehicles in the rather small car park don't always shop at the store. My point is if there is a genuine reason for an 'infringement' there should be local representation rather than an 'appeal' to an entity that exists to make money. My partner works really hard in a difficult environment to earn her way in life, and to be hit with a 'fine' for an accidental lapse in concentration whilst trying to do the best she can for herself and her client is wrong.
Sainsbury's don't just give parking companies the right to operate on their car parks for nothing🤔 You might like to check who actually owns the land! You may find it's your local CONcil. Favours for favours operater ?
@@oddball7483 good point, but in this particular instance 1) Barnet realises the value of parking enforcement, and 2) the locals know this is a good place to park for a quick visit to the bank (yes, we still have branches in Golders Green), local retail outlets and a quick coffee! I realise I'm diluting my initial complaint, but sadly opportunism on behalf of others means my partner and I have to suffer financially. Life eh?
"Disinterested staff member...." in my experience,Sainsbury is full of them! Even had staff members being downright rude to me. Will never shop there again. Saino!!
I work for the NHS and have to pay monthly parking to park at the hospital, this payment comes out of my salary monthly. Sometimes when l get to work l can’t find a staff parking place, so lve had to park on patients car park and when lve gone back to my car lve got a parking ticket. I’ve never ever paid them as l pay for parking on the hospital grounds to go to work. I’ve had loads and loads of threatening legal letters and put them all in the bin because all they can do is take me to court for loss of earnings but as l pay monthly car parking charges from my salary they are not loosing any earnings from me. if lm paying parking charges then lve a right to park my car on hospital grounds ……
If you do defend one of these in court with legal representation, and you win, can you not claim back all your costs against the parking company, including the cost of the lawyer?
I don't quite understand the PO Box address part, is it that if they don't have a real address then you can challenge the ticket as you can't go to their offices to sort it out?
For comparison, our local swimming pool car park is run privately, i made a mistake one week and put my wife's car registration in by mistake (I use either car). Got a ticket, replied to the company to explain, and demonstrated i have both cars, my previous history at the pool ( extensive) and they cancelled the ticket. Superstars, common sense prevailed.
It happened to me... I couldn't get the machine to give me a ticket with my number plate, I even asked help from another person who couldn't do it either so I wasn't the only one who couldn't do it. I was fined £60 if I paid then, or £100 if I went over the date given. I appealed twice and I lost. Yet the 1st 20 minutos were free anyway, and I was parked for just over 15 mins but I didn't display the ticket. During the appeal they provided the evidence when i entered and left the car park, so they could see I was there for less than 20 mins this was not disputed. Their argument was that I should've left the car park if I couldn't get a ticket! I paid just because of the hassle! I think the appeal system also let me down!
I also think that in this case you discuss, they are in breach of contract for voters and services. Implicit in the contract is that they provide a working facility to enter and print a valid ticket. They took his money but didn't provide part of that paid for service. It could be argued that they owe him £100 as it was their fault, not his.
The right/ wrong material can reach 60-70 C in direct sunlight and that's before we consider the greenhouse effect of the screen protection. The only datasheet for an lcd that i can find states a max operating temperature of 70C
This happened to me, it only recorded the last 3 letters of my registration. I appealed sending them a photo of the ticket and the tickets I had bought either side of that day. and it was not upheld. But they said if I paid the admin fee £20 that I would hear no more. I paid the £20.
Recently I got a PCN from MET parking services. I was at the KFC Gatwick. I Got a ticket to enter the drive-through and had the cashier in the window scan the ticket. Then when exiting the parking lot, the machine spit out the ticket and it fell onto the floor. Oh no I thought before exiting my car to pick up the ticket. I discovered many other tickets on the floor. I picked up a couple and they did not work. I then pressed the intercom button to see if I could get someone to open the barrier for me. No one answer the call. A car then drove up behind me and was wating to get out. I also could not reverse as it was a one-way road. I pressed the big red button that said “If you press this you may receive a penalty charge notice”. lo and behold I did indeed receive that notice. I explained all this to the company and they still went ahead. I was given the option to use the POPLA. But I did not as I was worried about being sued. Really do think these parking companies act like mafia organisations bullying people to pay whatever they want. Sorry for the bad English
I have one that is ongoing at the moment for parking in a disabled parking bay at Morrisons and I forgot to put my blue badge card on the dash. They took photographs of the reg plate and also of the inside of the car showing the dash. I have told them that I will not be paying them a penny and that they can FRO! I haven't heard a word for them in a month. Here's hoping it stays that way.
Watch out as they will say they sent you letters when they have not then suddenly you have a CCJ on you like my son got only found out when he applied for re mortgage 😊
I incorrectly selected my wife’s car registration in a parking app once. Luckily I was returning to my car and saw a parking attendant stood in front of it and doing something on their terminal. I asked him what was happening and he said there was no payment for the car. I showed him the app and he noticed the incorrect registration. Thankfully he hadn’t gone far enough into the process and could cancel it. He said this happens a lot.
This is from a DVLA document published on the Government's website, so unless the parking company joined another ATA, under the DVLA's own rules they should not have sold the registration details. "To make sure motorists are treated fairly when any parking or trespass charge is pursued, DVLA will only provide vehicle keeper details where the company is a member of an Accredited Trade Association (ATA). ATAs enforce a code of practice which covers many aspects of a car parking operator’s business. While complying with the code of practice is an important consideration for DVLA when releasing vehicle keeper data, not all requirements of the code affect reasonable cause. DVLA will not disclose data to parking or trespass companies who are not members of an ATA. We expect the ATAs to monitor adherence to the code of practice and investigate and address non-compliance when it arises."
I'm in Scotland, where hospital parking charges aren't a thing. Or that's what they'd like the public to believe. At my local general hospital my wife received a parking 'fine' from the private firm that polices their huge carpark. Don't ask why they should need that when parking is 'free.' She was parked in a disabled space displaying a valid disability card. So why a charge? The card - the parking firm claimed - wasn't 'straight' and H&S rules forbade their staff from bending their necks. Arrant finance-generating crap, of course. I wrote to the hospital administration - and was ignored. Took the matter up with my MP, who to be fair had the ticket quashed. His secretary contacted me to ask if I was satisfied. OF COURSE I WASN'T ! Did my MP think I was so shallow all I wanted was to escape a parking charge??!! I'd written in the first place hoping to have someone address what I saw as an OBSCENITY! Still largely unresolved. I'm 80 and in shockingly declining health. But not as shocked as my GP who's been informed I will NOT ever consent to admission to a hospital with such openly commercial standards of care. Long ago, I worked for a year in an NHS hosptal. Hated Matron - she was a pure terror. But I'm now convinced we need Matron back in charge of our hospitals - in place of the 'suits' that have reduced the NHS to near-extinction.
A relative parked in the private bay for my flat with my permission. The Parking Management Company targeted this vehicle with 3 PCNs. My local Councillor told me I must pay up. The appeals process for the other trade body is administered by the same firm of solicitors who pursue vehicle owners.
This is a great Channel, and more and more people need to be aware of the advise given freely. Here's an early congratulations on the pending 500k subscribers.
I have a similar situation in a hospital car park. The touch screen was faulty and I only managed to enter my registration number after five abortive attempts. (The touch screen repeatedly showed the incorrect key stroke made by myself.) I was then asked at what time I entered the car park, which as I attended accident and emergency, I was unsure of the time I arrived. I guessed a time, and if I am wrong I anticipate a penalty charge. Nowhere was it stated in the terms and conditions that you had to record your arrival time as you will be asked to enter it into the payment machine when leaving. It was stated that ANPR cameras were in operation., which surely should have registered the time I arrived. This was pay on exit only parking.
If you are going to ignore them, ignore them without even engaging with them, once you engage they know you are willing and afraid of the process so know they have a high chance of forcing money out of you.
You have to wonder how many of these companies are set up with the intention of selling parking as their core revenue stream, and how many are financially dependant on enforcement activity. Some of this behaviour is indistinguishable from that of Scrubbit and Bleacher. We need to start seeing companies routinely fined or prosecuted for vexatious demands.
It would be interesting to read the actual terms of the parking contract to see if any term was actually breached. if the only term being relied upon is paying and displaying the ticket, then it can be argued that it wasn't breached.
The overall system is corrupt, including often the court support of the parking companies. Civils claims court is for addressing damages, but these companies are clearly acting punitively and also compounding the over-estimated costs. All courts should be dismissing anything but the maximum parking charge for the remainder of the day of parking infraction, plus a fixed amount for bringing the matter to court. If the parking companies only tried to claim back for lost charges (i.e. their true damages), then more people would be more than happy to cough up. But the undeniable level of abuse by parking companies is a testament that there is zero profit to be made from an honest parking company and they depend on their dishonest punitive practices. And as BBB points out, the government are slow to do anything, because they are making taxes out of all of it.
I found the parking situation in the UK mystifying. The places I've lived the past 10 years (in Europe) all have ANPR parking systems and are ticketless. You drive in and you pay when you drive out by swiping your card at the exit (from your car) or alternatively pay at a machine in the facility (e.g. if you want to use cash; you enter the license plate and it displays the charge to pay and you can pay by cash, card or phone). In most cases you can install an App on your phone and run the charges that way, which is useful if your vehicle is shared or a company vehicle etc. The systems I saw in the UK seem to be a mix of old processes whilst using new technology and strikes me as a curiously labour-intensive way to run this.
ticket since 79 which is when I started using the roads with motorised vehicles. I ride a motorcycle, so never paid for parking, never wasted time or fuel sat in traffic. Riding a motorcycle gives you more time and saves fuel, so go buy one would be my advice. I wax my leathers so waterproof and these days you can buy heated clothing, so we don't get cold like we used to.
The car parking fee in School Lane, Herne, in Kent has become six times more expensive, with the fee jumping from just £2.20 to £15 as new tariffs introduced at the start of the month inflated costs. The previously busy car park is now rarely used however the local authority refuses to do anything saying they will review it after a year! Local businesses are suffering and vehicles parking on sparsely available roadside is affecting traffic flow. It appears the council have imposed the same parking charges at all its car parks regardless of location. Any thoughts on this attitude of the council?
YES! Ask your CONcils where the money collected has gone? The costs in setting it up and the amounts collected and Into whose pockets it went. It's why the rich become richer and the poor become poorer.
25 years ago i got a parking ticket in the high street i took photos of the street no yellow lines except round the corner no where near me went to court i took them to court was told by the judge he was not allowed to hear my evidence due to me not responding to the the organization that deals with this i explained i had sent all my files to the council who held onto them until after the 28 days i then displayed the photos of the area with time stamp and he said your right theirs no yellow lines but theirs nothing i can do i lost the case to the council but on the way out stated i would take it to the next court where i could claim money for my time i never received or heard anything again from the council.
Since they like to add fees on when taking you to court, can you add fees on when they have denied appeals causing you to defend yourself in court, including solicitor fees? If there was a possibility that they would be paying your fees they might take appeals more seriously.
Had a PCN from Parking eye a few years back. I ignored it as I thought it maybe a scam. I couldn't remember the exact date and time I'd used the car park. The PCN said it was 7pm ish in the middle of July, the photo seemed to be taken in the dark and had no recognisable features of where it was taken. Also the carpark in question had signs on the perimeter fence saying 20 mins fee parking (turned out these signs were not for the carpark, they were for the few spaces outside it.) I subsequently received a court summons. I confirmed I would attend. I received a for from the court where I had my chance to explain and to see if it could be resolved without a hearing. I obviously mentioned the photo and my thoughts about a scam, along with photos of misleading signs. My other defence was that Parking Eye like to mention their high court case, a lot. I claimed this was intimidation as the claim against me had was completely different to that case. I claimed it was bullying tactics. A couple of weeks before the hearing I was asked if I still Intended to attend, I confirm that I did. A couple of days before I received notice that Parking Eye had dropped charges. Don't know if they thought I had good enough defence or if they though it would cost too much to send a solicitor to argue with me.
Just food for thought why do you need to put the VRM on the ticket? as long as the ticket is display on the dashboard inside your car with the correct date and within the time stated on the ticket that has been paid for, dose that not mean a parking spot have been allocated and paid for within the specified time?
My daughter uses an app. She has her own number plate and her partners number plate on it. She parked and paid. Unfortunately she paid for the wrong car. When she received a parking charge notice ahe realised the mistake - appealed the decision, and that was allowed. Not all stories end with court - but I totally understand this mistake could have cost a phenomenal amount.
ParkingEye took me to court when I was carrying out remedial works to a fire alarm in a hotel. They backed down at mediation. DCBL (NPC) took me to court for parking in my allocated parking space while displaying a permit. I haven’t heard back from them since submitting my DQ. They (the parking management companies) rely heavily on getting judgement in default because people have been told to ignore their demands. I appealed at every point, which was rejected. Yet PE backed down at mediation and DCBL haven’t even responded to my DQ.
Interesting. Thanks for posting Daniel. Hope the guy gets sorted they don't deserve this or the stress. I have had a couple over the years two from Travel Lodge and Premier Inn on ANPR which were cancelled but the funniest one was from Tyne Tunnels I queried that one too and got a copy of the photograph and my car was on the back of a car transporter doesn't anyone look at these before the send a PCN. That was cancelled too as I had sold the car to Cinch and notified DVLA.
As soon as any carpark changed the payment machines over from just plain putting coins in and getting a ticket for time of stay, to having to enter number plates and using apps and cards I stopped using them. I am all for tech but why make things more complicated than they need to be.
If you have paid but, eg, mistyped your number, and can prove that, then surely they have suffered no loss to take you to court for? This happened to me where screen could not be read because of glare from the sun and also the keypad was sticky. I was able to prove they received the money because i paid with debit card, not cash. The payment to them was evidenced by my bank statement.
And the con as well is that they won’t hold the reduced charge pending the outcome of an appeal. One also has to ask whether the full charge, typically around £70 these days, cannot be a fair reflection of any loss incurred, so may well amount to a penalty, which is unenforceable?
In the local Aldi car park they say disabled spaces for blue badge holders only . So i looked at a few cars with "blue coloured badges" on their dashboards. The white van man with the ticket machine said to me even though they were obviously fake , they are blue in colour and he cant issue a ticket as they meet the signage criteria. (In Scotland)
Embarrassed to say I paid for hour's parking recently to run a 5k and overstayed. I was slow and it started late. It was a couple of minutes and hopefully covered by the grace period. It was a council car park.
if there is a telephone number you are able to ring and point out the error at least you have tried to do something keep a record of the call on your phone for future reference. a ticket is better than none at all but i would only buy the one ticket and like i said about calling a number if available
Get an Exclusive NordVPN deal here nordvpn.com/bbb. It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee!
there's a girl I know that i'm trying to avoid, will this nord vpn help hide my tracks from dangerous hunting girl?
@@eroero830 Be prepared for "Background Processes are not running" and NORDVPN will not connect you. Just wait an hour or so, don't go online and try again. A reboot won't work. I sometimes just uninstall and reinstall then it might work. 8 times out of 10 it is OK, just be prepared for when it doesn't. I still use it though.
Hi do you know what kind of sentence will I get for punching my brother head?
Still with the VPN's, Why? (well i know why). Just do a little research. Search "vpns are scams" in youtube.
@@eroero830 depends... if you are rich, she might be very persistent!
Im waiting to go to court for £360, been going on for 2 years now. The car park used to be free, they then added signs about new charges against the floor, so when you reverse into the bay you cant see it and because there was cars in all the other bays you couldnt see the signs. I sent them photos to show this and nope still taking me to court for a £1.60 ticket i didnt buy. How does £1.60 go to £360? What makes it worse the whole day is £6 so I could have parked my car there for 60 days for the fee they are charging me, they didnt lose £360 by me being there for 1 hour...
Just people exploiting the fact that our government gives no fucks about us. When one company gets away with stupid shit like that the rest figure it out and do the same. Society gets worse but nothing changes. This is because the people we have elected to keep this behaviour in check through legislation have abandoned us because they live in their bubbles of elite dinner parties, networking in wealthy social circles and elitist ways of thinking. Until we change the system we use to elect our representatives then they will continue their plan of turning this country into the land of exploitation (which means opportunity in their circles). The only solution is mass rebellion but they've spent decades using propaganda and the media to dismantle communities to divide people up. The strikes under Thatcher shook them to their core and highlighted how small of a grip they have on us therefore they've been working to eliminate that ever since.
That's the issue isn't it? There is no actual loss, which why I found the judgement so odd that the charges didn't have to reflect a loss.
Good luck
Sorry you are going through that stress. Do bear in mind, though, that they often drop out at the last minute, or don't send anyone to the hearing.
Was the ticket machine supplied by Fujitsu?
😂
Nice…😂
Its quite likely....
Someone needs to put this company out of business by pressuring the councils.
The crazy thing is, this is just parking! The stress that the victim is subject to is totally out of proportion to the error.
c-yc5rk There should be a limit on the maximum a parking company can charge e.g. £100 so that the cost can never escalate because this is just parking! Furthermore, parking companies should pay compensation to drivers who are incorrectly charged. Currently there is nothing to stop a parking company from speculatively charging every car in a car park on the basis that some people will pay out of fear regardless of whether they were in breach of the rules.
@@manchegocheese997100% agree with this
It's the escalation in the fees if you don't pay that I find unreasonable i.e a 50p parking ticket turns to £70 if not paid within xdays it doubles to £ 140 so most people just pay the 70 to avoid bigger and bigger fees it's a total disgrace
We need to get Citizen Advice properly funded again. This country is being destroyed by corporate greed like this.
100%
Absolutely. But properly staffed and funded.
We used to have a CA office locally. We might still have - hardly matters, as everyone has given up on it.
I needed it - desperately - some years ago. But gave up when it became clear it was staffed by people who had given up on everything but manning the phones - and they were failing even at that.
I tried to contact CA this past week - all I got was ‘the office is unmanned please ring our help line’. I rang the help line to be informed by an automated voice ‘no one is available to respond to your call’. I loathe what the conservative party has done to my country since 2010.
I volunteer with CAB, I couldn't agree more we get too many cases like this which are a waste of time, they often cost more for them to go to court than they would get back as well, yet they still insist on going ahead causing untold stress for decent people.
CAB will be overwhelmed with immigration issues
You are right, so many companies just reply on bullying and intimidation and threats of court action.
They must make literally millions of pounds this way.
Used to park a good few years ago in a retail park for the rail station…parked as usual, arrived back in the evening to a clamp and had to pay £50 release fee…they were waiting around the corner for folk to park, then installed signs and fraudulently caught everyone.
I called the parking firm the next day, secured the details of the owners of the land including the employee who had authorised the parking firm…wrote to him personally to ensure that he was clear that having approved the fraudulent parking firm’s actions he is liable and a Small Claims would be issued within two weeks unless my £50 is refunded double quick. A £50 refund arrived from the parking firm within a week.
It's a sad you can't disclose who the company was or the location. Criminals need to be named and shamed .
He doesn't want to do anything that can give the company leverage to sue for further things. I'm sure he could later.
Everyone should go there and duplicate the same mistake using the evidence storing app mentioned.
As a sub contractor from up north when working in London I always videod myself paying at the meter,showing any problems faulty meters and also photographed the ticket on the windscreen and photographed the vans position on the road or in the bay,
That’s what I do. I have received notices from these people making up all manner of so-called breaches that when I showed them the photo to prove that what they are saying is BS they back off immediately! 😂
@@jujutrini8412 Yes, I learned that lesson when one of the largest ones in the UK tried it on. They waited a couple of weeks then sent a letter saying I had not paid. By sheer chance I had not thrown the ticket out (which I guess is why they delay 2 weeks as most people will have discarded the ticket by then, so if you paid with cash you by then would have no way to prove your innocence and they could steal £100+ from you, supported by the court if you tried to fight it). It was very clearly a deliberate policy and made me wonder how many hundreds of thousand they extort this way. I replied sending a copy of the ticket and said I looked forward to meeting them in court.. . They backed down. So now I keep any tickets for several months.
I've started doing this after the local hospital car parking company tried to screw me over when their machine was not working.
Their "evidence" was clearly falsified and they were unable (or unwilling) to provide any photographic evidence. They took it all the way to court and they only pulled out the Friday on the week before the court date. I guess they were hoping I would just pay up under threat. No chance.
@@Mr-J... I’m just a suspicious bastard and trust no one, it’s always a trump card to keep for when you need to use it. I would love to have the time, money and balls to let them get so far into a lie take me to court and for me to whip out the video and photos in court, but it’s nice to dream, plus I wouldn’t trust the courts to rule in my favour even with the evidence.
Shame you need to take such extreme measures
Had a similar problem. Appealed, rejected. Appealed with BPA….rejected. Agreed to pay fine in 3 instalments by cheque, ( just to be awkward) sent 3 post dated cheques which one solution decided to cash AT once. Complained, money refunded and ticket cancelled. Legislation needs to change. Will I ever park in a private managed car park again….. NEVER. Profiteering is disgraceful.
Makes you wonder if you could take them to court for clearly making things up. Almost fraudulent.
The other issue is whether the parking company is justified in obtaining your details from DVLA. On ANPR, the parking company are supposed to check the tickets for validity BEFORE obtaining your details from DVLA. That is also covered within the BPA rules.
If the Judge cancelled the case and made the company pay the court costs, these frivolous cases would all disappear, That would be proper justice!
When was the last time there was a judge with commonsense and non biased.
When i was sent a £100 fine for supposedly parking in an Asda car park for 24 hrs i asked for photo evidence of every vehicle movement for the stated 24 hrs and they cancelled straight away
Bullshit
Yeah, of course you did.
That happened to me too … I love Asda but not much Lol … I’ve heard several people say it’s happened to them too
I wouldn't deny you asked for the info. I would doubt they cancelled straightaway.
They will send a list of reg plates that went past their ANPR cameras.
That list is usually redacted "for privacy" but really it is so you can't analyse the data properly and prove them to be lying b******s.
The £90 cancellation fees from insurance companies is criminal
It is unfair, but point the finger at the right party. In most instances those fees are either taken by the broker, or by the insurer to give to the broker. The fee ensures that they get their commission no matter what.
Our internet provider charges about £40 per remaining month. That's almost 2x the monthly fee.
@@leblueawoo A charge that high seems likely to be considered by a Court to be unlawful
@@ABadManinLondon Tell that to TalkTalk
@@leblueawoo You can only tell that to the court; and that has risks. All teh telecoms/mobile companies are crap - I would add to that list all the electricy companies.
The time to bring these nasty parking to account is long overdue. These are the same greedy companies that used to go round clamping vehicles before it was made illegal.
Also, who gave the DVLA the right to pass on the vehicle details to these companies. This is totally wrong.
If they weren’t members of the BPA, then how did they get the owner’s details from the DVLA?
A while ago one of the consumer programmes on TV set up an entirely fake parking company on no more than a letter heading land sent one of their own registrations to DVLA along with the small fee ... DVLA sent the keeper details!
Similar thing happened to my mother. She driven to a DIY store ealy in the morning and bought some items. This took less than 30 mins and left the store at 10:00 and later she returned back to the store to refund some items and left the car park at 18:10, so she visited twice that day. We received a £100 charge letter by post stating that my mother has parked at the property of the store for 516 mins (roughly 9hrs). Luckily I took the car out for an MOT service during that day and I pointed this out to them using their online appeal and they just waved it off with no explanation or an apology.
As the parking company is no longer a member of the BPA are they still bound by the BPA's rules on keying errors? Also, if they are no longer a member of the BPA, how were they able to access personal details of the registered owner of the car?
It is an easy challenge as to where they obtained the contact details.
The BPA rules and guidelines are generally a reflection of the law. They exist, supposedly, to prevent things going to court that the parking company would be sure to lose. That's the value proposition of the BPA to the parking companies. Follow our guidelines and you won't have deal with the legal stuff so much. Obviously not quite how it goes down in practice but it makes nice window dressing.
1, how are they still obtaining keeper information if they are not a member of a required trade body? DVLA should get sued for breach of GDPR!
2, Name the company! Stop protecting these scummy companies.
Anyone can (or used to be able to) get the details of the registered keeper. Done it myself.
@@S.Trades Private vs business access is different. Parking companies (PC) sign up to the KADOE contract with the DVLA. Under that contract, the PC has to be a member of a DVLA Accredited Trade Association, i.e British Parking Associates. No member = no data and is a breach of GDPR!
So yes, DVLA should not have given out the data in the first place. The main issue are these trade associations, all are completely shady, none really work to the letter of the law and none are impartial. The BPA I remember used to be registered in my town... but I knew the address, there are no offices there. Went to check... and nope, no BPA. The entire system is frankly rotten. Parking companies make money from fines, not the parking charges!
there is also a further issue its really easy to get accreditation with a trade association, One day some nefarious person will sit outside a court, police station or military base, animal testing centre and record number plates, and they get private addresses of these vehicles from DVLA , its a serious security breach which can lead to peoples homes being targetted.
@@khalidacosta7133 Even when a clear breach of data can be proven, ICO don't give a damn and private litigation is outside the economics of us mere plebs.
ICO will only move on something when enough public pressure has mounted that they cannot ignore and/or where the government are going to get to pocket the fine.
The word "REASONABLE" is possibly the most important word in British consumer law.
If that company is not part of the parking association, how did they get details from DVLA?
DVLA are willy nilly giving out drivers details for payment which is another injustice by itself
Driving multiple vehicles i accidentally put wrong registration number in. It took several letters and unsupportive boss (Martin Henegan) but i won.
I got taken to Court by VCS for exceeding the parking duration time even though I proved that I did not. Took 5 minutes for the judge to dismiss the case. Even their solicitor was embarrassed to have to represent them. This bullying should be outlawed and their licence revoked 🤔
Probably wasn't even a solicitor.
I fully agree with this sentiment. Did you know that every year approximately 750,000 bulk financial claims (penalty charges) proceed to default judgment (CCJs)! Many of the victims are in a very vulnerable position or are unable to defend the claims due to various human factors including fear or challenges with literacy. The court documents are another topic for discussion in terms of minimum literacy requirements.
If they are using ANPR cameras, they should be able to record when he entered. Before leaving, he could enter his plate details on the payment machine and it would automatically search and identify that plate and provide him an amount to pay. He pays, payment gets assigned to his plate, he drives out, the same ANPR cameras record him leaving, job done. Local supermarket uses exactly this principle.
Sounds like their system isn't fit for purpose. Hope he wins the case (he should do, seems like a slam dunk case to me).
It’s done that way by design, to prey on those who make mistakes and/or are unwilling to fight.
I have consistently found the ANPR registration is incorrect. In my case the VRN is ##68 V##. Yet the machine will give the option for putting the incorrect registration as ##68 Y## replacing the V for Y.
I have to manually override this, if I were not to, who would be culpable?
@BBB I'm appealing against 2 Bristol Clean Air Zone (CAZ) fines at the moment, and Bristol City Council have stated I am liable because of "Code 17J". When I looked this code up there was plenty of information on it linked to Bristol City Council, BUT when I looked for it on the gov legislation there is no mention of a Code 17J at all! I'm under the impression that Bristol City Council thinks it can write anything it wants into law! If this is the case and there's no government legislation for Code 17J - is this considered fraud? Because they are not only making money through false representation, but they are using force and fear in their approach.
I would love to know your thoughts on this.
I had a similar problem with an NCP ANPR carpark.
I entered my registration and a sticky or faulty button missed the second letter of the number plate.
So the fee was paid and my number plate minus the letter was printed on the ticket.
I was unaware of the error but kept the ticket in the vehicle as I do all parking tickets for a while.
A month later I had a fine through the door.
I rang them and after several phone calls and emailing a photograph of the ticket
They eventually removed the fine.
They did not say this though they actually said they would assess it and get back to me.
I never heard anything back.
So great for pointing the finger but not so great at accepting errors with their machines and nor using common sense.
The exact same thing happened to me only a few months ago. Wife was parking at Woking train station, entered reg number, but only the 1st part of the registration number was saved. I received a fine of £85, disputed the fine and enclosed the receipt and told them that parking was paid for. They came back to me and said they would wave the fee for a £20 admin fee, due to the error. I replied back through POPLA saying that it’s not my fault their equipment didn’t work properly, so no I won’t be paying anything thank you. And if you do force me to pay, I’ll claim back the equivalent amount through small claims court. Anyway they dropped the charge, bullies 😅
Train station car parks may be covered by byelaws which is handled differently yet again.
For quite some years now,I've always wherever possible,avoided the private car parks as they're run by nothing more than legitimised thieves and crooks. I also always take a photo of the ticket when placed in the screen,because again,I totally distrust the system. In one instance,this provided proof that the private car park was completely in the wrong-cost me time and effort to fight,but these thieving parking bastards make my blood boil.
Is it possible to play them at their own contractial game?
If you are fairly sure that the penalty charge will be rejected (either at appeal or court). Spell out your charges for your time/letter etc if they wish to continue their action.
Any further pursuit of their claim constitues acceptionof your terms.
Then issue them with an invoice if the penalty charge is overturned.
You think that would be enforceable in court?
I certainly on my accountants advice did this with debt collectors trying to enforce a payment for a cancelled mobile phone contract. They sent a letter to appear at a court in Scotland. I pointed out I was a self-employed contractor and would be when I won seeking for them to pay all my expenses including hotels and 2 days at my then day rate. They backed down so far you could almost hear a sonic boom.
No idea, hence it being a question.
How likely is it the parking companies would risk testing this in court as opposed to paying up?
@@grantclay66 I'd be surprised. They don't need to chase awkward, obstinate non payers. They are after the low hanging fruit, the easy pickings. But I'm not a lawyer.
I had something very similar.
I got one digit wrong on the ticket. Didn't realise. But, luckily I kept the ticket, as 2 weeks later the first letter arrived! I went to the shop that I parked at, and asked them to deal with it, they said no. I then appealed, and lost, and appealed again, and again, I lost.
I had a couple of demands arrive, and I said I paid for parking, and have the ticket. Either take me to court, or go away. This went on for about a year, and then, finally, the court letter arrived. I filled in my defence, and attached a copy of the ticket. The court said it was a hearing claim, and gave a time and date at my local court.
3 days before the hearing, I presume a lawyer was preparing for my case. I had a call. We're dropping the case. Followed by an email to say they were no longer pursuing me. I was never told why, but presume the lawyer took one look, said I'm not going to argue this, and dropped it.
But, the main thing that got me, was it went on for so long, and I've never known anyone win any of these silly appeals you do. I didn't get stressed, as I've been in business for so long, this sort of thing is a minor niggle. I would love to be able to sue the butts of them
My Father has had multiple from various parking firms. Partly incorrect reg, sometimes the ANPR camera not registering correctly.
Every time, he has told them to stick it. The "debt" gets sold to a dept collection agency (after they increase the "fine" to £200+) ..
Every time, the debt collection agency end up just dropping it after being told to go swivel.
Personally, I would ALWAYS demand they take me to court (unless it was clearly my fault)
My wife was fined at a parking in wales. The thing is her car was parked at our flat the whole day sent a letter asking them to prove by a photo of the vehicle and number plate. I then received a letter saying that they had the wrong car; how was that possible? I think they just choose a random number and send them a charge notice
Thanks for this. Under human error by Reason J, 1990, a mistake is a circumstance where an operator thinks about a task then correctly dos the wrong thing. In this case as described he followed the machine instructions and the machine provided the wrong product. If the ticket machine isn’t working properly, there is nothing to show that and there are no instructions to say what to do if the machine breaks, the customer did not make a mistake.
My partner got a ticket in a SIP car park in Sheffield because we read on the sign ''Concessions do not apply for disabled drivers - Vehicles in disabled bays must have a fully visible disabled badge on display in the windscreen'' now we took this as we didn't have to pay for parking because we displayed her Blue Badge, but the ANPR got us coming in and going out and sent a ticket, but I've done a google search and can't find anything on if we misinterpreted it or not.
Ended up costing me £160 as we tried to challenge it and they said no and then put fees on top of the payment, in the end I ended up paying it as I didn't want her having the stress of the letters.
It means disabled ppl still have to pay in full
Same with Tyne Tunnel pcn's. Total extortion. Someone needs to takr them to court over their corrupt procedures because it's doubling their profits.
I had a Stopping in a no stopping area for stopping to go through a security barrier at Bristol Airport!
I do think the law nerds to come down on those who use faulty tech.
Including hospital parking. I owed £2, fed a tenner in and got £5 back! After months of trying to find out who was responsoble, writing letters to the hosp telling them no one would contact me about my 'short change' I finally got thro to someone who told me another hospital manages the money. I wrote a very terse letter and they sellotaped my additional pounds coins to a piece of paper and posted back to me. No apology 😂 They were ticked off 😂😂😂 It was worth the challenge as I believe in standing your ground when you are right.
It's not faulty. It's designed to do these things.
@@juliaw7533 Absolutely!
Thank-you for making videos like this. It always annoys me to see people bullied into pay unfair charges.
What people in the UK aren't usually aware of is that their bureaucracy and their bureaucrats are among the most malicious and purposefully adversarial in the world. Usually, bureaucrats do not go out of their way to this extent in order to persecute, humiliate or aggravate the individuals in their grasp - they just do what they're told by sometimes unfair or unjust rules, and even in dictatorships there is usually a measure of softening perceived hardships in outlying cases. Not as much in the UK where antipathy towards the subjects of a bureaucratic procedure seems to be the expected norm. The conduct of institutions like the famously hostile environment of the Home Office or the Post Office, the outrageous conduct of the Met and some other police forces differs from other democratic countries in the sheer amount of personal grudge, iniquity and malignance. This has seeped from state institutions to private corporations, where unchecked greed, another current-day British value, is added on top.
We used to have a separate Law Advice Centre but it merged with the CA. The service is still called a Law Centre but they don't provide any legal advice....
If you look up Law Works, their probono 'services' are University Law Students looking for cases to study, no help for 26 weeks of the year when the students are on holiday, or they have exams or are on a month long freshers week.
I can save you the bother of calling the CA for legal help as all they will say is "You need to a solicitor as you need formal legal advice". My response is always if I could afford a solicitor, I wouldn't be calling them.
The huge sums of money that go into advices centres is spent on signposting people until they end up back where they started, it's an absolute farce.
These companies will approach any company with a car park. I know of many medical centres being paid £500 a month to manage their free car park. Yes, they intend to make money off the "fines".
The pay machine, situated at the Lake Vyrnwy cafe. All of the options are in Welsh, and a guessing game.
A contract is only valid if it is understandable by both parties. Yet another reason for never visiting Wales.
I just paid £300 and now they want another £170. No help in sight.
Maybe help yourself by learning the law and fight against their extortion...👍🏼
They are first class professional scammers, so much for Greg Nights intervention in private parking pirates.
If he wont say it I will. It does not matter if you put wrong reg in. As soon as they accept payment both sides have accepted a legal contract of parking for a vehicle and both parties have to abide by the law. As long as you can supply a receipt or bank statement showing this, there is nothing they can do. If they do start hassling you then send your own invoices for your own time, charge at the same rate they are charging you, you are well within your rights to do this. Also always ask under a FOI request for all video and admin data regarding your case, plus a copy of all their operating licence's regarding data usage and storage of data, including if its on site or off site data storage. It will cost them a lot of man hours and they will probs drop it.
Lat year my dad went to court (and won) over car parking charges. The machine was out of order and a sign told him to use the "nearest available" pay point - which he did. Same company, same tariff, but the alternative machine was pay & display and not ANPR and was apparently for a different car park. The company did not accept any appeals, they gave him the wrong reference number to the mediator, their lawyer refused to represent them in court over the case and the case was dismissed immediately.
This is why electronic payments win over cash - you have a bank statement to reference against the company verifying payment
Finally, we have someone to point the obvious out loud. Thank you! Love your Chanel!
My wife had similar with a parking app.
Had multiple vehicles on the same app , payed for parking in the correct car park but used the wrong registration by mistake.
Provided them with all the information and proof , they could see what had happened but wouldn’t back down .
I had a company try to claim that I stayed over 6 hours when I visited their car park twice in one day. I appealed giving them the exact times I entered and left the car park with the GPS co-ordinates of the entrance/exits I used. They denied my explanation, but told me I could appeal, so I emailed them asking for CCTV footage of the relevant entrance and exits at the times I left (to the minute, I was using a GPS tracker a lot at that time), and they emailed back to say they rejected my appeal, but they cancelled it 'out of good faith'.
Now when I enter or exit a car park I tap the 'incident' button on my dashcam, and get locked footage of me exiting and exiting the car park at that time.
I also take photos of the ticket in situ in the car, and the parking signs / policy
It’s not just Parking charge notices. It’s ALL business. I ALWAYS challenge fees and charges applied for miss payments. For example I missed an insurance payment. The company then charged me £27.50 and threatened to record the missed payment to the credit reference agencies. I sued them via small claims court and I got my money back pretty quickly…. I ALWAYS do this as charges and fees must be proportionate.
I got a fine from a parking company, when i had paid for the ticket. After a few communications they final agreed that i had in fact paid for parking, and they said that in that case they would reduce the fine down to only £30 from £90. I told them thanks for confirming that i had paid for my ticket and they would not get any money from me. Never heard anything back.
Better system: remove all number plates from the tickets, bin the anpr system and either have a gate or a warden. Done. Even better all tickets in ungated carparks would be transferable based on time. Much nicer for the public.
The parking ticket machines are more than likely setup to fail on purpose
My partner is a dementia carer. She takes some time selecting items in our local Sainsburys, and unlike most Sainsbury car parking (according to their website) its an hour and a half not two. Coupled with mandatory self checkout the minutes soon pass. She was nineteen minutes over, and got the inevitable from their chosen enforcement company. Went to ask customer services and was totally rebuffed by a disinterested staff member: Take it up with them.
On her behalf I tried to email Sainsbury head office and whether by accident or design there seems to be nothing there. Surprise. Agreed, this car park is abused by locals who park due to the very enthusiastic 'revenue enhancement officers' employed by Barnet Council, but to have no facility for redress in branch for a genuine error is (in my opinion) not particularly good customer relations?
We paid, better get it out the way, but Sainsbury's has lost a customer to Asda for something that could have been resolved locally without confrontation....
Sainsburys are probably nothing to do with the parking enforcement.
@@S.Trades Exactly. Apologies if I didn't make this clear. I can empathise with Sainsburys to a degree as it is quite obvious that vehicles in the rather small car park don't always shop at the store. My point is if there is a genuine reason for an 'infringement' there should be local representation rather than an 'appeal' to an entity that exists to make money. My partner works really hard in a difficult environment to earn her way in life, and to be hit with a 'fine' for an accidental lapse in concentration whilst trying to do the best she can for herself and her client is wrong.
Sainsbury's don't just give parking companies the right to operate on their car parks for nothing🤔
You might like to check who actually owns the land! You may find it's your local CONcil. Favours for favours operater ?
@@oddball7483 good point, but in this particular instance 1) Barnet realises the value of parking enforcement, and 2) the locals know this is a good place to park for a quick visit to the bank (yes, we still have branches in Golders Green), local retail outlets and a quick coffee! I realise I'm diluting my initial complaint, but sadly opportunism on behalf of others means my partner and I have to suffer financially. Life eh?
"Disinterested staff member...." in my experience,Sainsbury is full of them! Even had staff members being downright rude to me. Will never shop there again. Saino!!
I work for the NHS and have to pay monthly parking to park at the hospital, this payment comes out of my salary monthly. Sometimes when l get to work l can’t find a staff parking place, so lve had to park on patients car park and when lve gone back to my car lve got a parking ticket. I’ve never ever paid them as l pay for parking on the hospital grounds to go to work. I’ve had loads and loads of threatening legal letters and put them all in the bin because all they can do is take me to court for loss of earnings but as l pay monthly car parking charges from my salary they are not loosing any earnings from me. if lm paying parking charges then lve a right to park my car on hospital grounds ……
If you do defend one of these in court with legal representation, and you win, can you not claim back all your costs against the parking company, including the cost of the lawyer?
The answer probably, is "maybe". Nothing is cut and dried. Nothing is a foregone conclusion.
I don't quite understand the PO Box address part, is it that if they don't have a real address then you can challenge the ticket as you can't go to their offices to sort it out?
For comparison, our local swimming pool car park is run privately, i made a mistake one week and put my wife's car registration in by mistake (I use either car). Got a ticket, replied to the company to explain, and demonstrated i have both cars, my previous history at the pool ( extensive) and they cancelled the ticket. Superstars, common sense prevailed.
Surely this wasn't Britain...
It happened to me... I couldn't get the machine to give me a ticket with my number plate, I even asked help from another person who couldn't do it either so I wasn't the only one who couldn't do it. I was fined £60 if I paid then, or £100 if I went over the date given. I appealed twice and I lost. Yet the 1st 20 minutos were free anyway, and I was parked for just over 15 mins but I didn't display the ticket. During the appeal they provided the evidence when i entered and left the car park, so they could see I was there for less than 20 mins this was not disputed. Their argument was that I should've left the car park if I couldn't get a ticket! I paid just because of the hassle! I think the appeal system also let me down!
I also think that in this case you discuss, they are in breach of contract for voters and services. Implicit in the contract is that they provide a working facility to enter and print a valid ticket. They took his money but didn't provide part of that paid for service. It could be argued that they owe him £100 as it was their fault, not his.
The right/ wrong material can reach 60-70 C in direct sunlight and that's before we consider the greenhouse effect of the screen protection. The only datasheet for an lcd that i can find states a max operating temperature of 70C
This happened to me, it only recorded the last 3 letters of my registration. I appealed sending them a photo of the ticket and the tickets I had bought either side of that day. and it was not upheld. But they said if I paid the admin fee £20 that I would hear no more. I paid the £20.
Recently I got a PCN from MET parking services. I was at the KFC Gatwick. I Got a ticket to enter the drive-through and had the cashier in the window scan the ticket. Then when exiting the parking lot, the machine spit out the ticket and it fell onto the floor. Oh no I thought before exiting my car to pick up the ticket. I discovered many other tickets on the floor. I picked up a couple and they did not work. I then pressed the intercom button to see if I could get someone to open the barrier for me. No one answer the call. A car then drove up behind me and was wating to get out. I also could not reverse as it was a one-way road. I pressed the big red button that said “If you press this you may receive a penalty charge notice”. lo and behold I did indeed receive that notice. I explained all this to the company and they still went ahead. I was given the option to use the POPLA. But I did not as I was worried about being sued. Really do think these parking companies act like mafia organisations bullying people to pay whatever they want. Sorry for the bad English
I have one that is ongoing at the moment for parking in a disabled parking bay at Morrisons and I forgot to put my blue badge card on the dash. They took photographs of the reg plate and also of the inside of the car showing the dash. I have told them that I will not be paying them a penny and that they can FRO! I haven't heard a word for them in a month. Here's hoping it stays that way.
Watch out as they will say they sent you letters when they have not then suddenly you have a CCJ on you like my son got only found out when he applied for re mortgage 😊
Many courts are not allowing these extra fees say £60
I incorrectly selected my wife’s car registration in a parking app once. Luckily I was returning to my car and saw a parking attendant stood in front of it and doing something on their terminal. I asked him what was happening and he said there was no payment for the car. I showed him the app and he noticed the incorrect registration. Thankfully he hadn’t gone far enough into the process and could cancel it. He said this happens a lot.
I agree with your analysis.
In addition, think the £100 penalty for not paying a £3 fee is disproportionately excessive and unfair.
This is from a DVLA document published on the Government's website, so unless the parking company joined another ATA, under the DVLA's own rules they should not have sold the registration details.
"To make sure motorists are treated fairly when any parking or trespass charge is pursued, DVLA will only provide vehicle keeper details where the company is a member of an Accredited Trade Association (ATA).
ATAs enforce a code of practice which covers many aspects of a car parking operator’s business.
While complying with the code of practice is an important consideration for DVLA when releasing vehicle keeper data, not all requirements of the code affect reasonable cause.
DVLA will not disclose data to parking or trespass companies who are not members of an ATA. We expect the ATAs to monitor adherence to the code of practice and investigate and address non-compliance when it arises."
I'm in Scotland, where hospital parking charges aren't a thing.
Or that's what they'd like the public to believe.
At my local general hospital my wife received a parking 'fine' from the private firm that polices their huge carpark.
Don't ask why they should need that when parking is 'free.'
She was parked in a disabled space displaying a valid disability card. So why a charge? The card - the parking firm claimed - wasn't 'straight' and H&S rules forbade their staff from bending their necks. Arrant finance-generating crap, of course.
I wrote to the hospital administration - and was ignored.
Took the matter up with my MP, who to be fair had the ticket quashed. His secretary contacted me to ask if I was satisfied. OF COURSE I WASN'T !
Did my MP think I was so shallow all I wanted was to escape a parking charge??!! I'd written in the first place hoping to have someone address what I saw as an OBSCENITY!
Still largely unresolved. I'm 80 and in shockingly declining health. But not as shocked as my GP who's been informed I will NOT ever consent to admission to a hospital with such openly commercial standards of care.
Long ago, I worked for a year in an NHS hosptal. Hated Matron - she was a pure terror. But I'm now convinced we need Matron back in charge of our hospitals - in place of the 'suits' that have reduced the NHS to near-extinction.
A relative parked in the private bay for my flat with my permission. The Parking Management Company targeted this vehicle with 3 PCNs. My local Councillor told me I must pay up. The appeals process for the other trade body is administered by the same firm of solicitors who pursue vehicle owners.
Does you Lease authorize the management to enforce parking management?
This is a great Channel, and more and more people need to be aware of the advise given freely. Here's an early congratulations on the pending 500k subscribers.
I have a similar situation in a hospital car park. The touch screen was faulty and I only managed to enter my registration number after five abortive attempts. (The touch screen repeatedly showed the incorrect key stroke made by myself.) I was then asked at what time I entered the car park, which as I attended accident and emergency, I was unsure of the time I arrived. I guessed a time, and if I am wrong I anticipate a penalty charge. Nowhere was it stated in the terms and conditions that you had to record your arrival time as you will be asked to enter it into the payment machine when leaving. It was stated that ANPR cameras were in operation., which surely should have registered the time I arrived. This was pay on exit only parking.
If you are going to ignore them, ignore them without even engaging with them, once you engage they know you are willing and afraid of the process so know they have a high chance of forcing money out of you.
You have to wonder how many of these companies are set up with the intention of selling parking as their core revenue stream, and how many are financially dependant on enforcement activity.
Some of this behaviour is indistinguishable from that of Scrubbit and Bleacher.
We need to start seeing companies routinely fined or prosecuted for vexatious demands.
It would be interesting to read the actual terms of the parking contract to see if any term was actually breached. if the only term being relied upon is paying and displaying the ticket, then it can be argued that it wasn't breached.
The overall system is corrupt, including often the court support of the parking companies.
Civils claims court is for addressing damages, but these companies are clearly acting punitively and also compounding the over-estimated costs. All courts should be dismissing anything but the maximum parking charge for the remainder of the day of parking infraction, plus a fixed amount for bringing the matter to court.
If the parking companies only tried to claim back for lost charges (i.e. their true damages), then more people would be more than happy to cough up. But the undeniable level of abuse by parking companies is a testament that there is zero profit to be made from an honest parking company and they depend on their dishonest punitive practices.
And as BBB points out, the government are slow to do anything, because they are making taxes out of all of it.
When this goes to court and you win can your client claim their legal expenses?
I found the parking situation in the UK mystifying. The places I've lived the past 10 years (in Europe) all have ANPR parking systems and are ticketless. You drive in and you pay when you drive out by swiping your card at the exit (from your car) or alternatively pay at a machine in the facility (e.g. if you want to use cash; you enter the license plate and it displays the charge to pay and you can pay by cash, card or phone). In most cases you can install an App on your phone and run the charges that way, which is useful if your vehicle is shared or a company vehicle etc. The systems I saw in the UK seem to be a mix of old processes whilst using new technology and strikes me as a curiously labour-intensive way to run this.
The answer is that the market for parking in Britain is driven by revenue from infractions rather than from parking itself.
Sounds like a breach of contract to me, the operator failed to provided a working machine so they are liable, can you counter sue
Hi Black Belt, love the content. I've never seen duplicitous used in that way!
ticket since 79 which is when I started using the roads with motorised vehicles. I ride a motorcycle, so never paid for parking, never wasted time or fuel sat in traffic. Riding a motorcycle gives you more time and saves fuel, so go buy one would be my advice. I wax my leathers so waterproof and these days you can buy heated clothing, so we don't get cold like we used to.
Simple advice -bin the letters.
They can’t take everyone to court and will only take those to court who have responded to their threatening letters.
The car parking fee in School Lane, Herne, in Kent has become six times more expensive, with the fee jumping from just £2.20 to £15 as new tariffs introduced at the start of the month inflated costs. The previously busy car park is now rarely used however the local authority refuses to do anything saying they will review it after a year! Local businesses are suffering and vehicles parking on sparsely available roadside is affecting traffic flow.
It appears the council have imposed the same parking charges at all its car parks regardless of location.
Any thoughts on this attitude of the council?
YES! Ask your CONcils where the money collected has gone?
The costs in setting it up and the amounts collected and Into whose pockets it went. It's why the rich become richer and the poor become poorer.
Never paid any private fines only local council. Nothing happened ever , And I've had a few .
So how did the parking company get the drivers details if no longer a member of BPA?
25 years ago i got a parking ticket in the high street i took photos of the street no yellow lines except round the corner no where near me went to court i took them to court was told by the judge he was not allowed to hear my evidence due to me not responding to the the organization that deals with this i explained i had sent all my files to the council who held onto them until after the 28 days i then displayed the photos of the area with time stamp and he said your right theirs no yellow lines but theirs nothing i can do i lost the case to the council but on the way out stated i would take it to the next court where i could claim money for my time i never received or heard anything again from the council.
Since they like to add fees on when taking you to court, can you add fees on when they have denied appeals causing you to defend yourself in court, including solicitor fees?
If there was a possibility that they would be paying your fees they might take appeals more seriously.
Had a PCN from Parking eye a few years back. I ignored it as I thought it maybe a scam. I couldn't remember the exact date and time I'd used the car park. The PCN said it was 7pm ish in the middle of July, the photo seemed to be taken in the dark and had no recognisable features of where it was taken. Also the carpark in question had signs on the perimeter fence saying 20 mins fee parking (turned out these signs were not for the carpark, they were for the few spaces outside it.)
I subsequently received a court summons. I confirmed I would attend. I received a for from the court where I had my chance to explain and to see if it could be resolved without a hearing.
I obviously mentioned the photo and my thoughts about a scam, along with photos of misleading signs.
My other defence was that Parking Eye like to mention their high court case, a lot. I claimed this was intimidation as the claim against me had was completely different to that case. I claimed it was bullying tactics.
A couple of weeks before the hearing I was asked if I still Intended to attend, I confirm that I did.
A couple of days before I received notice that Parking Eye had dropped charges.
Don't know if they thought I had good enough defence or if they though it would cost too much to send a solicitor to argue with me.
Just food for thought why do you need to put the VRM on the ticket? as long as the ticket is display on the dashboard inside your car with the correct date and within the time stated on the ticket that has been paid for, dose that not mean a parking spot have been allocated and paid for within the specified time?
My daughter uses an app. She has her own number plate and her partners number plate on it. She parked and paid.
Unfortunately she paid for the wrong car. When she received a parking charge notice ahe realised the mistake - appealed the decision, and that was allowed.
Not all stories end with court - but I totally understand this mistake could have cost a phenomenal amount.
ParkingEye took me to court when I was carrying out remedial works to a fire alarm in a hotel. They backed down at mediation.
DCBL (NPC) took me to court for parking in my allocated parking space while displaying a permit. I haven’t heard back from them since submitting my DQ.
They (the parking management companies) rely heavily on getting judgement in default because people have been told to ignore their demands.
I appealed at every point, which was rejected. Yet PE backed down at mediation and DCBL haven’t even responded to my DQ.
Interesting. Thanks for posting Daniel. Hope the guy gets sorted they don't deserve this or the stress. I have had a couple over the years two from Travel Lodge and Premier Inn on ANPR which were cancelled but the funniest one was from Tyne Tunnels I queried that one too and got a copy of the photograph and my car was on the back of a car transporter doesn't anyone look at these before the send a PCN. That was cancelled too as I had sold the car to Cinch and notified DVLA.
As soon as any carpark changed the payment machines over from just plain putting coins in and getting a ticket for time of stay, to having to enter number plates and using apps and cards I stopped using them. I am all for tech but why make things more complicated than they need to be.
If you have paid but, eg, mistyped your number, and can prove that, then surely they have suffered no loss to take you to court for?
This happened to me where screen could not be read because of glare from the sun and also the keypad was sticky. I was able to prove they received the money because i paid with debit card, not cash. The payment to them was evidenced by my bank statement.
And the con as well is that they won’t hold the reduced charge pending the outcome of an appeal. One also has to ask whether the full charge, typically around £70 these days, cannot be a fair reflection of any loss incurred, so may well amount to a penalty, which is unenforceable?
In the local Aldi car park they say disabled spaces for blue badge holders only . So i looked at a few cars with "blue coloured badges" on their dashboards. The white van man with the ticket machine said to me even though they were obviously fake , they are blue in colour and he cant issue a ticket as they meet the signage criteria.
(In Scotland)
All parking charge companies need to understand is i live in the sticks alone with my little boy, and i dont like uninvited visitors
Embarrassed to say I paid for hour's parking recently to run a 5k and overstayed. I was slow and it started late.
It was a couple of minutes and hopefully covered by the grace period. It was a council car park.
if there is a telephone number you are able to ring and point out the error at least you have tried to do something keep a record of the call on your phone for future reference. a ticket is better than none at all but i would only buy the one ticket and like i said about calling a number if available