The REAL Cost of Charging An EV | Project Leaf
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ธ.ค. 2021
- Rory whips out his calculator to determine the real cost of charging an EV, and to see how it compares to a petrol-powered equivalent.
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I've owned an EV for the past 5-years and charge it, 95%+ of the time at home with my solar panels and pay $0 for fuel and $0 for my home electric bill. I've saved about $3600/yr., every year as we used to spend $150/mo. for gasoline and $150/mo. for our home power bill. I installed my own solar panels for super cheap and bought a slightly used EV, far lower than the price of a new one, and it's been a great decision!
That sounds great, how many panels does it take to run your home and charge your car? Do you live in a very sunny location? I'd love to do this eventually.
and how much were your panels?
nothing is free!
@@leeneal6969 That is what I was thinking. You have to add at least some of the panel costs to the running cost of the car. But if you are using the panels to run your car as well as your home it would not take long to cover the cost and then your would have real "free" driving.
@@recumbentrocks2929 average solar panel is 400W, so you would need 20 to achieve the 8KW fast charge status, I never seen any residential property with that many panels.
Lets also not forget that most cars will be plugged in overnight, not sure how clued up you are but solar panels dont work well at nighttime, so you would need some battery backup system installed too, and those are bloody expensive.
Well done. Gives me an idea of how large your roof is, given that EVs seem to have a minimum charge load of 1.4 kW. It can be a gamble with the weather as well, if on day/night rate to get the best price for import. Otherwise, on some utility supply accounts, if the cloud comes over one could be paying as much as the cost of fuel for an ICE car.
********UPDATE********: We used the original 24kWh battery capacity as the basis for these calculations to keep the calculations simple, as we currently do not know the exact remaining capacity of the battery. As some of you have expressed an interest in the exact capacity (which will affect the calculations slightly) we're going to try to get this number for you and update it in a pinned comment. We'll also edit the video to remove an error in the ESB cost per mile calculation (pending). Thanks for watching! -Rory
Love you video Rory. Battery capacity should not matter in you calculations only miles per kwh. If an ev does an average of 4 miles per kwh at 5p per kwh its 1.2p per mile. I think your leaf has about 16kwh of usable battery.
Can you tell me which UK provider is giving you electric at £0.14 per kWh???
Very good video indeed.
Although these are bread and butter calculations for people who own an ev and charge at home already, this is massively informative for people considering buying an ev.
I took the plunge regardless but can only wish Rory did this nearly 2 years ago.
This is most obvious when you run a PHEV as you see the price difference for yourself when you mostly run it on electricity alone... either with a granny charger or for free at Sainsbury's or Tesco (while doing the shopping).
One minor point to mention is that the Leaf battery is half shot already (as per your previous video), so I am sure you're only half filling it every time you charge Rory...so it probably costs you even less...
In any case, full marks
Good point. If the car had the original range of around 90 miles the maths would make more sense.
If the battery is half dead, then you need to charge it twice as many times for half the price. So no benefits there. Probably even worse, because if you go to town with the little boy, you might not be able to get back home to your cheap and cozy socket. You charge where you park to boost the battery a bit and is a bit more pricey. Depending on how long you stay (if you're lazy and just let it charge) or how much you really need to get home (and how many times you have to do that) you have to increase your yearly cost calculation by more or less.
But here in Germany, chargers in the city-streets are reserved parking for EVs, which can give you a nice space when everyone else is looking for parking. So that can be a bonus for paying extra.
Generally: in these kinds of calculations, only the cost per mile or cost per year (which is ultimately cost per mile times lots of miles) will make sense. Because a small battery takes less power = less money to charge, but it will drive you less miles. so... hm! :)
The Leaf has around 21KWh of useable capacity out of 24. There are a few KW used as a buffer to protect the battery ever being fully charged or discharged. Subtract the degradation that's on the Leaf and you're talking closer to 15KW of electricity. Even cheaper than what's calculated.
First thing I thought during the calculations. I was waiting for Rory to subtract the battery degradation. So yes, the Leaf is even cheaper than you’ve calculated it to be. Also….. it wasn’t the cheapest Leaf available on Autotrader at the time you bought it. Mine was! Yours is in better condition though.
@@RoystonTumbles I sold my 63 plate acenta this year for £2500, 66%soh and 192000 miles. Ex taxi.
It's true, but he's not taking into account the efficiency of the charger. So.. one mistake cancels the other
Yeah, 24kwh leaf is listed as 22kwh usable as new. 60% mean 22x0.6=13.2kwh, or around 14kwh.
@@tj2375 it means your "fuel tank" is smaller. So your math will just be wrong if you assume you still have 24kwh tank, but you dont. It does not keep taking in 24 and giving out less, it will "literally" be smaller, taking in less and thus you have less tank/energy to work with.
Meaning you do not pay for 24kwh for full charge since you dont even have room for 24kwh anymore. He has room for 14kwh. Thats what he did his 60miles with too. (~14.5kwh/100km)
Would you consider an EV given the charging costs?
Would love to have an EV. I don't know what it is about EV's but they have really captured my imagination as I've never been in to car's more motorbikes but addicted to EV's and researching them and reviews and love Rorys reviews as they are insightful and come over as genuine without any bias and I can't wait to see more episodes. Keep up the great work Rory
Tesco/pod point is still free. BP pulse at £8 per month then free charging at 7kw and reduced rates at high power charging. Again if your staying in a hotel find one with free ev charging inclusive of your stay 10hrs over night upto 70kw. 70kw would cost a fortune at a high powered 50kw plus charging station
@Alaberti - Sounds like you need a track day car !
@Alaberti model 3 is very fun in a corner
I have an EV. Thanks.
Time for my Corsa E and me to add our two cents. A few disclaimers first: 1.) I can't charge my car at home; 2.) Power consumption went up quite a bit with the current cold weather and snow; 3.) I am completely dependant on public charging stations. Now, I average at about 1200 km per month. My most recent bill for charging my car came to 56 Euro for November. As I said, I can only charge at public points (42 - 48 cents per kwh) though this is partially balanced out by free charging options near my home. To compare costs: up until 2 months ago I was driving a 1.2 litre Corsa series e "Active" which came to about 170 Euros a month in fuel. So my electric Corsa only costs a third under current conditions in raw "fuel" price than what the ICE Corsa needed.
2 years of leaf ownership, it does 99% of my use! Love it! And the torque for city driving is awesome! I charge for free at work, love it.
Did a range test of 30% highway and 70% city , got 140km out of mine , 24kwh with 15% degradation. I was driving sensible to get those numbers though. Not bad for 6 years old leaf.
You seem to have made a mistake on the Leaf figures. The car has lost quite a lot of its battery capacity, but you've used the *full-spec* capacity to calculate the charging cost. Then you divided by the *degraded* range to get the cost per mile. That makes the Leaf look a fair bit worse than it actually is.
Correct
There's also usable vs total capacity. If it's a 24kwh battery with 22kwh usable you only put 22kwh in when charging. The extra capacity is left unused to extend the lifespan of the battery.
I can't remember how degraded his battery is but I'd knock 1/3rd off the kwh input and change the price per mile accordingly.
Yep, you're right. Really he needed to look at how much charge he is actually putting IN overnight - it'll be more than the battery capacity also. In an earlier video I think Rory said that the battery had degraded by nearly a third over its life.
You are right, but let’s not scare people with additional math. 😉
The other thing is that the charging efficiency is not 100%. Some of the electricity will be lost to heat etc.
Rory just keeps on delivering high quality content with Auto Trader! Loving it mate!
Great stuff Rory, helps people to see the real cost benefits of going electric. I doubt many people with an old Leaf will be using public rapid chargers though with only 100 km of range. Perfect for home charging and doing the school run though. Where we live in France the local electric company have slow chargers (7.2 kW) in most small towns and villages. If you pay €15 a month you can take as much power as you want. I worked out that if you do 20,000 km a year (12,000 miles) that would be cheaper than charging at home. Makes sense for people who can’t get their car off the road to charge.
Great stuff because charging is cheaper than petrol or diesel, no road tax, YOU JUST NEED TO PAY DOUBLE FOR THE CAR AT FIIRST. And be stressing al the way hoping to have enough charge get to work in time, because if you don’t have enough, you’ll waste over an hour most of the days, plus coffee or wherever you need to spend where you stop to charge.
@@pablodepeche Bullshit Pablo. You don’t pay double for the car, mine was 30% more expensive than the petrol hybrid version back in 2019. Since then the gap has narrowed. And you clearly know zip about the day to day running of an EV. I have never ‘stressed’ about getting anywhere in my EV as does anyone who owns one. You plug in overnight and wake up KNOWING you’re going to get to work on time and a lot less stressed than in a fossil car with all that engine noise and wasted fuel in traffic. EV owners are never waiting for our cars to charge, we are doing something else like sleeping, eating or shopping. So stop your nonsense postings.
@@pablodepeche you never had an electric car, obviously…
@@erebostd My job is to deliver electric cars every day of the week in UK. I know what talking about.
@@pablodepecheSo you deliver cars…Do you think that the guy delivering food recognizes the delicacies of the cuisine he delivers? Or is he more the hot dog guy, complaining why the boeuf stroganoff costs so much more than his ordinary burger, which tastes the same to him? Right…
This was a huge help! You make absolutely incredible content, my friend. Keep up the great work!
If u do 4 full charges per month the £4.99 is only £1.24 per charge. And obviously becomes less with every charge.
Yes that was another inaccuracy. If you only charged once a month you would not use a subscription
Also I have driven a Leaf up and down the UK for a year and never heard of ESB or used a provider with a subscription service. Average price for rapid charging is probably about 30ppkwh ATM. More expensive than home or public slow chargers but Way cheaper than petrol.
Cheaper maintenance costs on the leaf as well. Mine is 4years old and still has its original break discs and pads. No oil or plugs or timing belt to change. No tail pipe or catalytic converter.
Expensive battery though
@@millimetreperfect by the time he needs a battery he'll be so rich he can buy three new cars lol 😅 while the person who has a gas car squeeze their life savings to maintain theirs
@@millimetreperfect The battery last the lifetime of the car, so long as it is not abused like always charging from empty to full using rapid chargers only. There are lots of Leaf taxis that have done in excess of 150,000 miles and still going strong on the original batteries.
@@millimetreperfect your right but after 4 years I still have all my battery health indicators. Ice cars deteriorate as well you know.
I'll bet the insurance on the Leaf is a lot less than his Mustang too!
Really clear video and real world examples. Thanks
Brilliant report, Rory that used Leaf is perfect for me, I have a free charger at work. Great back-up for my '97 E420.
It is crazy how expensive things are for you guys in the UK and Europe. In America the cost to drive an electric car is similar (my volt costs about 3 cents per mile) but vehicle registration is generally less than $100 per year and it costs my parents about $0.18 per mile to run their V8 15 passenger van.
That will be why the US is Trillions of dollars in debt !
@@SDK2006b in Europe the funds raised from drivers are used to help subsidize the rest of the government's budget. In the US the goal has been for drivers to cover the cost of maintaining the roads and no more. Granted it would be good if the US increased the gas tax slightly or implementation of a small vehicle mile tax (about $0.03 is enough), but even still it would be far less expensive to drive in America than in Europe and the UK.
@@SDK2006b Both the UK and Germany are in trillions of dollars of debt, so I'm not quite sure what's your point is.
UK road tax is sooooooo cheap compared to most countries in the rest of Europe. In Belgium a V8 Mustang would cost you around 15 grand in road tax the first year and 3500 every year after that!!!!! You guys in the UK are lucky
Good, i hope it increases so people have to go electric
@@radioactivet-rex286 are you the anti-christ of cars
@@radioactivet-rex286 As more people change to EVs governments will need to recover road tax AND fuel tax. Most likely by a mileage tax, but whatever it is - they will find a way. EVs will end up just as expensive to run as ICE cars.
@@raytrevor1 and? Thats not the point of EVs, the point is to find a good replacement for the stupid amount of greenhouse gases we produce, just like many other sectors will have to change, automobiles will have to too
In the US if a car gets poor enough fuel economy there's a gas guzzler tax when you buy it, but other than that vehicle registration cost is dependent on vehicle class not efficiency and is generally less than a couple hundred dollars.
The £4.99 ESB monthly membership charge isn’t every fill up of electric though. You might use it 4 times a month adding only £1.25 per charge to the .28p per kWh
Subscription members enjoy our best value tariffs to charge on the bp pulse network, starting from £0.28/kWh. You’ll also get access to free charging on selected bp pulse points as well as a physical access card, all for just £7.85 per month. Oh, and all new members get the first 3 months’ subscription free!
Very clear and informative. Thank you 👍
Fantastic video and highly informative. Thank you very much for sharing.
Brilliant video once again, Rory . Thanks!
So we drove 8000 miles in our Leaf over the past 12 months - 75% of those miles were delivered by our solar PV; the remainder cost us 5 pence per kWh using Octopus go overnight tariff. Total fuel cost for the year - £30.
Excellent information video, thanks.
Well done, clear, precise & informative.
A thing I have noticed when talking to other drivers is that they drastically overestimate their real world driving. Before buying your next car write down a carefully remembered list of ALL of teh journeys you have done in the last year. You will be surprised to see how few journeys you do that even come near to the range of one of the newer EVs.
To be fair, you only need to do one journey over your cars range and you then have to consider the charging infrastructure and the time it will take. I was willing to jump in, first with a 22kWh Zoe in which I did several road trips and the charging was part of the adventure. Now I have a 30kWh Kia Soul. We still do and enjoy road trips but they are a little easier than in the Zoe. It might only do 30 miles more per charge, but that has a much bigger effect than the raw numbers would suggest. You don't leave one charger and immediately start looking for the next. I would say that the sweet spot would be a few miles more still (dependant on charger availability), say 150-180 miles. What is more crucial is charging rate!
@@timsmith5339 My first LEAF was an ex-demo version, with a best range of just short of 100 miles. I soon found that I only needed to know of a couple of chargers around 40-50 miles from home.
My second LEAF had a slightly better range, I learnt to remember the charger points on the main roads. (Thank you Ecotricity).
My current LEAF has a dependable range of 140 miles in winter, more in summer. It has been all around Wales, up and down the M/Ways in the Midlands and numerous days trips to the beaches in Dorset. It has just turned 51000 miles. A day out of around 200 miles , one rapid charge, or a couple of hours on a 7kwh charger is all I need. Of course I do not hold the charging lead as I fill up. I do life, Lunch, shopping, visit a NT house, etc.
I am tempted by a 200miles+ EV but the budget ,and wife say not yet.
Exactly.
And how often would you drive 1000 km without a break to stretch your legs, relieve yourself and have a snack?
If you absolutely need that 1200 km range that a modern diesel has for the holiday trips, you could use an EV as a daily, and rent a diesel wagon for the longer holiday hauls.
If I could justify the purchase of a new car (I only use my car for holiday trips), I'd go electric. My only requirment is that I can get 300 km with a rapid charger, within reasonable time (30-45 minutes).
@@panzerveps You are exactly right. It's amazing how many ICE drivers either have bladders the size of basket balls or pee into a bottle rather than stop! If you do go electric, I believe the key is charge rate. I went with the Kia Soul because of the 100kW charging. It isn't paying off yet as there are few 100kW chargers out there yet (I will probably use it for the first time on holiday next summer when I travel on motorways in central UK), although it may be very slightly quicker on 50kW chargers than a car who's limit is 50kW.
@@timsmith5339 The current Soul is a great car. My sister and her boyfriend has an e-Niro, and it's been quite reliable and well suited for their needs as a family of 3, now 4.
Of all the cars on the market right now, I prefer the id3 for my actual needs, but Enyaq for comfort, styling, performance (the 80x is insanely good on snow and slippery mud) and value for money.
Another good video from Rory - but what about the usual provisos? - you can't charge at home if you live in a flat (that's 60% of Scots) - charging of EV's is recommended only from 20 to 80% (not 0 to 100) - cold weather can reduce your range by 20 - 30%. Put all that together and a flat buyer is not going to be rushing out to buy a 10 year old Nissan Leaf with a (very theoretical) range of 66 miles. That 10 year old Focus looks a far better bet.....
This doesn't just apply to those living in flats. It also applies to those who don't have off-road parking too.
Agreed, while EVs are cheaper for those that they work for, the technology still needs to advance some more before they are a viable alternative for everyone. But for those whose lifestyle already accommodates EVs, EVs can be far cheaper to run than a comparable petrol car.
I live in a flat in a city where almost nobody has off street parking. I charge overnight in a residents charging bay plugged into a street lamp. Our council put them near our homes on request. Many more councils are waking up to the fact they have to make provision for residents charging.
@@EVinstructor That's good to know. But just imagine what it'll be like when everyone has to go electric.
@@garysmith5025 How does he charge for free?
Great video presentation thank you.
Great video Rory - there are “free” public charging points especially at shopping centres, but these tend to be slower AC units and also you are normally limited as to how many hours you can park up + they tend to be in heavy demand (or ICE’d) during busier times. Also “free” is a bit mythical if you are stuck at a shopping centre for several hours on an AC charger 🤔
You are not stuck for several hours, you only plug in for the time that you are shopping as normal, you simply 'Top Up' . I normally 'top up' when I go for a meal in a town near to me, I'm there for about two hours, which adds over 40 miles to my 'tank' of fuel. The charging time involved is around 40 seconds (30 seconds to plug in and start the charge, 10 seconds to unplug)
@@solentbum Yes. and: The leaf will only charge at 3.7KW (1 phase x 16A, typically for a Japanese car) while the rates on your car suggests the more European 3-phase 16A = 11kw.
So sadly, the Leaf with the shot battery will benefit less from AC-charging, while it also relies more on it. However, DC charging - when available (on the socket - dying Chademo - and the car - yes some Leafs came without the Chademo plug) - is quite fast (45kw on lower percents, 10kw on the last percents to full)
Idk in Canada where I live all the public chargers are free and charge fast. I thought they were doing that in most places as an incentive to drive electric
Good comparison, many thanks.
Very useful Rory, thank you.
excellent info keep up the good reviews
Cracking video, Rory, very thought-provoking. I think that the £4.99/m is a one-off payment, not a per charge cost. But loved the principle of explaining to people the pros and cons. Well done, looking forward to the next. It is interesting, now with electric charging, almost all other factors are now ghosted,; handling, steering, comfort. We will all be driving white goods (like fridges) in the future and the only consideration apart from the badge is the range.
You’re absolutely right… it’s a monthly subscription fee.
@@huggyuk @Megapangolin and even if it was every time you charged - it would still be cheaper than petrol or diesel at today's prices...
Nice one Rory, explaining EVs for the lay man. Keep up the good work 👍
Great video Rory, really enjoying following your journey in EV Land.
Perhaps a video showing the leaf spy app paired with an OBD dongle would be interesting to people? Explaining further how traction battery’s work, charge and degrade.
We now own 2 leafs (24 and 40kwh) and although I have had many emotional connections to my cars over the years, BMW, Porsche, Renault, Land Rover etc, I love my leaf x
Great information mate an great video 👍
Your leaf calc was wrong! 24kwh is the gross battery size when new. The usable size is about 22kwh when new and gets around 100 miles range. Your battery is at about 80% of the this , around 18kwh. So the leaf is way cheaper to run than your calc shows. Otherwise I agree with the rest of the vid. Nice one.
Nah his battery is even worse. About 66% at best.
It's even worse than that because it's nowhere near 100% efficient from the charger to a charged battery.
Came to the comments for this. His cars range was 66 miles in city streets, at an optimistic 4.5kw per mile that's 14.6 kw used. So his cost is way cheaper than what he calculated.
It’s a tricky one to give accurate numbers for because I don’t know the true capacity of the battery. As I said it “had” 24kwh. You could also factor in 20% charging efficiency losses.
@@AutoTraderTV An excellent test would be to charge it on the granny lead, plugged in via an energy meter. Then you'd get a proper real-world figure which takes into account both the real capacity of your battery and the grid-to-battery efficiency. Energy meters are cheap. Go-on, we *need* to know!
How come I dint get a notification when this video went up?awesome awesome video bruv, still waiting to see u bring this legend into the new age
Thanks Rory, really informative as usual.
I completely agree. Here in Spain, I pay 0.045€ per KWh from 12PM to 7AM, and with my e-Niro the cost is about 0.50€ / 100km (65 miles).
To charge at home is cheaper and convenient.
Thanks for your videos.
Wow. Thanks for the info, Rory. Keep up the good work. 👏👏
Great series!
Just for comparison I live in Canada and recently traded in my PHEV for a 64kwh Kona EV.
I charge at home and average 450-475 kilometres per charge in the summer so far about 400-425 in the winter.
My car takes 7-8 hours to charge on level 2 in my garage and I charge about 4 times a month.
So far I seem to be averaging $30-40 per month in hydro, what we call electrical rates here.
As a topper my insurance went down.
I couldn’t be happier. Gas just jumped here to around $1.35 per litre.
The best ever explanation of running cost ev v ice… superb!
Your calculations are well off. Your battery on that leaf will absolutely not take 24kwh anymore, I’d guess 18 at best. My leaf does 4miles/kWh in winter and 4.8 - 5 miles/kWh in summer. So on your night rate that’s 1.75p per mile in the winter and around 1.4p per mile in summer.
The 24kWh never took 24kWh, a factory fresh one had a maximum capacity of 21.7kWh. The gross battery size is not the same as the useable capacity.
His leaf has a range of 66 miles left so the battery is degraded down to 7 or 8 bars. So the capacity goes down to about 14 kWh I think. I also don't understand why a monthly fee is added to every charge session. That assumes you will only charge 1 time per month away from home. Is that realistic???
@@GadgetFrank71 not at all. You don’t have to pay that fee to use the chargers. It’s just the cost per unit it slightly higher if you are not a member. Unless you are a very high mileage user it is unlikely to be worth paying the membership fee.
Great explanations Rory 👍 nice to hear from a real user point of view. Looking forward to the next leaf episode
Love this series!
Great overview!
Great explanation. I'm newbie and planing to buy nissan leave but was struggling to understand cost. Your video explained all enquiries I had. Much appreciated. God bless 🙏
Thanks rory another great indepth analysis 😀👍
Very well explained
Being a 2014 Leaf owner your numbers line up, with mine, I also found the best range sweet spot in moderately hilly roads is between 48 to 52 m.p.h. due to its tall gear ratio.
Wish we had off peak rates, but again this is the US....still living in the 1970's.
Great video once again!
thank you for the info... it was great..... and WHERE IS OUR VIDEO ABOUT LEAF UPGRADES ? :)
Hello There, thank you for sharing this calculation, this is much appreciated, this Video is really useful. Cheers Peter :)
This has become my favourite channel is 👌🏿 quality content
Great info
Another well presented video Rory.
Excellent presentation here dude
I was very interested to see your videos series on the Leaf, I'm enjoining it very much, I've had a 2013 one for two years, but your efficiency comparison with the Skoda was way off, its all about Kilowatt's per mile not battery size, over a year I get 4.1miles per kw what does your Skoda do? That's what you compare.
Brilliant!
Heck yes! Back to Project Leaf!
Real world tests are the best. Thank you Rory.
Thanks for this Rory, I'm just waiting for delivery of my first electric car - Dacia Spring (new version) This helps a lot. I live in France and currently drive a really old diesel Toyota Yaris. I'll miss her, but not the cost of the filling. Love your videos, a great help.
Yes more of this please
Really nice video.
Hi Rory, we have 2 2016 leaf Tekna’s. Rather than buying new EV’s to replace them when the batteries inevitably degrade, we are looking at the option of replacing the 30Kw battery with nearly new 62Kw batteries with a 33Kw range extender. The benefit of this being sustainable resource and money saving option not having to buy new cars. The cost of a 62Kw battery approx £13,500 and 33Kw range extender not sure on the range extender price but I think less than £10,000. So you then have a car with a potential maximum range of 436 miles. The 95Kw cars I have appear to start around £45,000 at present and I think very few do the new possible range of this project.
Loving maths with Prof Rory :)
Great video to show benefits of EV driving. Over past 6 months my Kia E-Niro with 64kWh battery has done 5000 miles most charges at home but some paid for at 50kWh chargers. Also some supermarkets and shopping centers offer free charging, so I have also benefitted from that. Total cost per mile has been 2.4 pence per mile.
Great video Roy, unfortunately I think lots of people might be moving towards new tariffs where the price of electric doubled. I am currently paying 23p per kilowatt for my electricity with British gas
Both Octopus and EDF are still charging 5p per kw on their EV tariffs I believe.... you do only get around 4 hours at that through the night, but there are 7 nights per week!
Same here 23p
@@Brian-om2hh thank you but unfortunately don't think you can get that any more :(
Yeah, I know this is from December, so about 2-3 months ago, but Rory must be on the best electric deal ever as his tarrifs seem very low. I'm on a fixed deal that lasts two years, taken out in April 2021 and my rate is 17.38p kWh. I know from chatting to other people, that's very low compared to what some people are paying. Oh and with all this stuff going on with Russia and Ukraine, prices are likely to go even higher for anyone not on a fixed price deal of some kind. Rory should also be factoring in the standing charge for electricty, as that can be as high as 40-50p a day. In short, he seems to have prices from about 5-6 years ago!
Wow thanks the leaf makes good sense
Wow excellent content!! Before your information on EV cars I'd completely discounted ever buying one but now I MIGHT consider one 🤷♂️
Such a great channel. I'm always looking forward to your videos. Love the math! More math please!
Love this series! This is exactly what I like to see. If I have to buy a car in near future it would be an ev. And the best I could do is 2012-14 leaf or 2014 e-up!.
Nice 'n clear. How has the Leaf been - reliability and quirks wise? Problems because it's electric or just because it's a Nissan? For an oldish 2nd hand car, good/bad against a 2nd hand ICE car of similar vintage & class?
Another good video by Rory. We charge our two Nissan LEAFs at home 90% of the time. We are not going back to a petrol car as there are so many hidden advantages to owning and operating an EV.
A great video as always. I only need to comment on the idea that EVs are only for people who can charge at home. Ideally, as you also pointed out, they should be charged at home. That makes a world of difference. But for those people who have no way of doing that, there should be an improvement in infrastructure. In Canada we have huge shopping malls and in those big parking lots there are starting to install EV chargers. I see different rates of charging, but there is an interest from the private companies to add more of them, powered by solar pannels. This will potentially reduce the rate, or even make them free (maybe L2). I know a few of the L2 public chargers to be around $1/hour, at 11kw.
Also, before I forget, don't forget that there are losses on charging. Not significant at lower current, but at DC (fast chargers) you will actually spend more energy to fill up the battery than the capacity, I believe the test showed that around 90% efficiency is what should one expect. Still, your point about EVs vs ICE cars stands.
What the video ignores is in certain cities when you charge your car, you are also parked, for free. In certain cities, like Paris for example, you save A LOT in parking fee from that as well! For example: 2-5 euro per hour is common price...
Remember we live in a country where we have homes that are older than your civilisation.
So the infrastructure just cannot be upgraded there, we have something called terraced housing (and alot of it) and if you live there it will be impossible to charge an EV.
Not to mention the tower blocks we have all over the world.
How are they meant to charge?
It's not impossible to charge an EV at terraced housing. Some terraced houses have driveways.
Infrastructure can be upgraded it's just a matter of whether central government, local government and property corporations are willing to put in the work (and money) to do so. Charging stations can be installed into car parks whether that be in the towers car park or a workplace car park. Some shopping centre car parks have retrofitted chargers in them so it is possible.
With current battery technology and charging infrastructure it would be impractical for those who live in towers or don't have access to off street parking to buy an EV but as technology improves (eg solid state batteries) and battery power density and charging rates increase EVs will be little different in terms of range to an ICE car and if your car is sitting outside with 300mi+ range in it there won't be any necessity for people to charge at home as you can just go to a charging station as and when you need it exactly the same way you go to a petrol station. Obviously it would be better to have at home charging but that's just going to be another way where it's expensive to be poor in this country.
@@christhompson4630 how many Victorian terrace houses have driveways?
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Who will pay for all this infrastructure to be fitted, what about the carbon footprint of that works being done.
This isn't an easy thing, the media would have you think if we all go to EV the
world would be better...
This was super helpful. Getting an EV and figured out I will save about 75% on fuel charging from my local public chargers. If I had a home charger (I can't as I live in a block of flats), I'd save ~95%. 🤯
Thing is that a quarter of uk drivers don’t have off street parking, and are generally prohibited from charging at home, and excluded from charger grants. This needs fixing as it’s a disincentive to upgrade.
But grants are available to most Local Authorities to fit grids in pavements Darren. The work allegedly takes about 40 minutes and allows a charge lead to pass under rather than over the pavement. The grants are there, your Local Council just has to apply for them. The same grants are there for the installation of street light EV chargers and free standing bollard types, but you would need to request one from your Council, then they should apply for the grant. The problem seems to be that many councils just don't seem to realise this!
Great exposition. Although my favourite bit of the video is seeing the Skoda flashing its lights at the camera operator.
really good video. This clear so many doubts and gave us the perfect math while we consider to buy an EV
Will you replace or upgrade the battery on the Leaf
I drove a 2014 Honda Fit EV for three years under lease. I never did any deep calculations, but this was my average result: driving a 40 mile commute 5 days a week (200 miles per week), with about 20 miles per week incidental driving for shopping and the like, my electric utility bill increased by about $12 USD per month (using a home 220V charger), going up slightly to $13 during the cold winter months. I confirmed that difference at the end of the lease, when my bill dropped by those amounts! I do live in Oregon, where our electric rates are rather low, since the large majority of our electric power is generated by hydroelectric and wind turbines. Even if the rate was double or triple that, it is still far below what my gasoline cost is for my Jetta! My next car will certainly be another EV. 😁
We are in Canada, and managed to grab a Mini SE just before everyone wanted one (6 month waiting list now). We love it, and daily top up charge at home (off peak) is just over ONE dollar. I've done some reviews, but we are heading into deepest whitest winter very soon, so we'll find out how the range changes. Great video as always!
How much of a rebate did you get? I’m in Ontario and we don’t get any EV rebates, just the FED.
@@TML34 We got the 5K off the price, but I think Mr Ford stopped the incentive claiming we were all millionaires. It might be re-introduced.
@@ScottRods 5k is pretty good, so that brings the Mini under $40k before tax. Not great, but you get the fuel savings! I’ve always liked the Mini, but knew it was horrifically unreliable. Hopefully the EV version corrects that. 😀
To make the calculation of EV fuel costs easier you can use the miles per kW figure for the car. Much like the miles per gallon for fossil cars.
I’ve owned a MK1 Leaf and now a MK2. Their average consumption is a little more than 4 miles per kW. At this figure your 7p kW electricity will be 1.75p per mile. I have managed to get to well over 5 miles per kW but I do train Eco driving techniques. From what I know of the Skoda it’s less efficient than a Leaf so would be lower than 4 miles per kW.
A Leaf has buffers in the battery so never uses its full capacity, I think the 24kW was 21kW useable. Also yours has lost a few battery bars so is not charging to that capacity. It might only be holding 16 to 18 kW. If this is factored into the calculations your cost per mile will be less.
For most EV owners rapid charging is rare. To bundle a monthly subscription into the charge cost for a single charge is slightly misleading. If you regularly used that charger then you’d pay a subscription and spread the cost over multiple charges, however, you’d avoid it for a single charge. A much more representative cost is 30p/kW, which you find at the Gridserve chargers at motorway services, or the excellent Instavolt network which is quite high at 45p/kW. 7.5p and 11.25p per mile respectively for a Leaf.
My car is my driving school and personal car so all the costs of running it are in my accounts. The Leaf saves £2,000 a year on fuel and servicing compared to my last fossil car, a Toyota hybrid, when petrol was about £1.25 a litre. My regular electricity is 13p kW and I do 20,000 miles a year.
Yes thought that if his leaf only has about a 60 mile range then it's not getting the full charge it did when it was new. Better to use a public charger and charge the car from flat, this will show how many Kwh it's taken to charge.
presumably your students end up with an automatic only licence? given the transition to EVs (and certainly away from manual cars) over the next decade or so, I'm guessing this doesn't put them off?
@@dirtjumper23 I’ve been teaching automatic for 16 years. It used to be difficult to make a living in auto. However in recent years demand for automatic lessons has become very, very high. The demographic of pupils has shifted and most of my pupils are now younger and can’t be bothered with gears.
Hi, I am plannig to buy a 2015 leaf.what is life-span of their batteries.
Great stuff. Any chance you could do a video on what you need to do and the cost of getting a home charger installed.
Problem is each house is different, is there enough space in the consumer unit, how far from outside wall to consumer unit, what sort of walls etc. Chargers are roughly 4-500 quid, installs from couple of hundred to a couple of thousand.
You'll need an electrician to connect into your fuse box, and a basic charger is around £500. Smart chargers are a little more but there's a £350 grant for them, so they can work out cheaper. If you go that route, the installing company needs to be accredited. A long cable run can add hundreds more, especially if it needs to run underground. OTOH if you have a garage with power or an outside socket, you might not need anything.
Great video about this rising and topical issue of "the cost of charging" your EV. Looking forward to the next video and more numbers with a modern EV.
He did with the skoda!
When you mentioned the ESB charging, you implied you would only be charging once per month and that's why the price per mile was so high. If you charged 10 times, the price per mile drops dramatically to about 11p/mile.
Per mile cost goes down, total cost goes up.
That is true, so long as you use that public charging station 10 times per month and not one in a different network.
@@AutoTraderTV Using it 10 times instead of once means total costs go up? My mind is blown!
Kinda over simplified, but a good way to compare like for like. How often will you be using the rapid chargers to charge from empty to full? If you're paying the standing fee for a provider, I'd assume you'd tend to hunt them out to spread the cost of the subscription across the month/a number of charges. I am on-board with EVs, but the cost to change is currently too high for someone of my means.
Any plans to swap out the battery to extend the range ?
Brilliantly explained for those of us who do not have an electric car but are looking at the costs of ownership compared to our current ICE cars.
7p off peak? What deal you on fam?! Nevertheless great video!
Must be on that "5 years ago" deal lol
First.
🙊 Well I'm 1st to reply 🤣
😂😂
@@happyguy2k good try
Does your leaf still have a full 24 kw working batter?
I like the fuel consumption comparison but also the petrol has weight so filling your tank is like carrying a mate unnecessarily battery packs are heavy but part of the car amps don't add more weight.
24kWh battery doesn't translate to 24kWh of electricty to charge as there is a loss while charging, I thought you were going to tell us the real world cost of charging which needs to include the extra lost kW/W.
Seen it on Bjorn Nyland once when he charged from battery to battery and lost almost 50%, would be interesting to know from home electricity supply to battery.
Charging losses from a home charger is probably 2 kWh worst case scenario for this leaf - that's 14 pence !!!
Level 2 charging at home the efficiency is not 100% but close enough for this kind of napkin math.
hi ..thanks for the great car content love ur channel , just a suggestion though .. could you please add metric conversions , via text on the bottom of the video..
How much does the leaf cost vs the focus?
Great video. I have just one issue. Energy price you mentioned is outdated. It is nearly impossible to find 14p per kWh. My energy cost is 35p per kWh which giving £8.40 per 24 kWh. This is equal to 0.12 p per mile. It is still cheaper then petrol car but not as much as you calculation
You could do a like for like comparison for a year between the leaf and the focus using all scenarios ie home peak, home off peak, public etc
More and more supermarkets and multi-storey car parks now have free 7kW chargepoints (My local Tesco does). So plugging in there is the same as home but is free unless you have to pay for parking or course.