Watching this in 2024, Oct 3 is roughly 9 months after Valentine's Day . Also I often do listen to JM's podcast and TH-cam all day. Super interesting, well researched, and brilliant analysis. Keeps me company while I go about my routine.
When I hear the glass candle "flame" doesn't move, I picture an incandescent light bulb as seen by common folk before something like that existed. When I hear that the light was weird I imagine something similar to a black light. In a way it feels like some advanced lost technology rather than magic and I'm still of a mind that George is masquerading some sci-fi elements even if he won't admit it.
Last, but not least... I think we ignore the fact a lovely guy called Xhondo Dhoru is around almost anytime a glass candle is burning. He is in Qarth in ACOK virtually in the same time as the lovely Urrathon and he takes Sam and Maester Aemon on his ship, from Braavos to Oldtown. I rather see him as a friend of Marwyn (a guy who, despite his name, might not be a nice guy at all) and I suspect, glass candle in his possesion or not, is through him Marwyn gets his info on both dragons and whitewalkers. He also gets from Sam the books Aemon got from Castle Black and, as far as I know, he still has Aemon’s dead, but full of kingly blood, body. Whoooo!!!!
Things that mimic Taragaryen magic: dragonhorns and glass candles able to send dreams similar with dragondreams make me believe somewhere out there, as well in Quaithe’s prophecy, a a false dragon is lurking. No, is not Faegon - although not Rhaegar’s son, this guy is a Targaryen from a lesser branch. My guess is the fake dragon is, indeed, Euron, who is so prone to garb himself in valiryan things although it seems impossible for him to have even a drop of Targaryen blood.
Wow! I am so sorry to have missed this stream last week. It was such a good take on such a thorny subject. Especially I do share your worries about some elements overcomplicating the story. For me is dragonbinder horns, but, I keep faith George will use these elements only to enhance certain aspects of the story and not to find magic explanations for otherwise unexplainable things. That is not George and I am still waiting for him to present us even with the good part of the White Walkers.
Was late to the stream but now I get to have a few cups of coffee and rewatch the whole thing. Glass candles are one of my most favorite topics, there is great possibility with it. Dany with a glass candle would be so powerful!
Dreams, especially metaphor/symbolic dreams, happen via the weir wood net, like with Bran or Jamie. For glass candles, people appear in dreams as themselves, as Quaith does. Even when Quaith comes to Dany as "stars" in her dreams, Dany knows who it is. Is there any evidence that glass candles actually give dreams- like Dany's dragon dreams.
Haha while I appreciate the comments for their own sake for engagement, I'd prefer ones that have something to say as well. Looks a little strange y'know?
Well remember, Marwyn is the Arch Maester of Magic, so he knows specifically, as it is his field. I imagine Marwyn is treated as an Alchemist would be in a modern University, for centuries (likely, I don't believe magic just stopped suddenly, likely a slow decline after the Doom, or perhaps even earlier, it's just became more noticeable a century ago), the field became ever increasingly obsolete. Also George's version of the Palantirs
if sam learns to use the glas candle, he could send a message with his crucial knowledge to the north without having to actually get there. old town will be attacked and as things are right now, most people expect sam to get out because he has to convey information. this would be a possibility around that. Sam, while shit hits the fan, runs to marvin's office and grabs the glass candle, sends a sos message with both his information and "omg this terrible thing is happening here" and then it cuts off. and for a while we dont know if he made it. that would be really cool and work well for tension
October 3rd is national holiday in Germany :D Funny there are so many people having birthday. Thanks for your stream! I love listening to you :) Hope I can join a livestream in future.
I thought that the flame was just bright. I think of a nightmarish and sickly white, like how bright lights feel when one is about to pass out. It is the other colors in the room which get their saturation cranked way up.
It reminded me of a halogen lamp or the arc of a TIG welder. Maybe not THAT bright, welding arcs will cook your cornea if you stare at them. Also I guess we pass out in different ways lol. When my vague nerve acts up everything goes black, then I see pinpoints of light trailing backwards like in Star Wars, THEN I pass out.
I think the location of the glass candles important and everyone we see kind of so far is that one of those access points. I think that's why marwin couldn't take one with him. It was probably set up thousands of years ago by the original magic practices to talk to each other and they can't just be moved and used as like a walkie-talkie
Just found this one Matt. Glass candles always intrigued me. Not a book reader but intend to in the foreseeable future. Thank you so much 💓 for being so informative. Your channel along with: order of the green hand, gray area, talking thrones, altshiftx, dragon demands, fire and blood, smokescreen, because geek, and nerd soup have always been the goto for GOT and asoif. Thank you so much you guy's 😘 So looking forward to HOTD. N maybe that dunk n egg ;))
So...it sounds like you and Robert/In Deep Geek should do a video that's "When In Doubt, Blame: Bloodraven (IDG) vs. Glass Candles (JM)," and just duke it out, haha.
Do you think the Dornish used the glass candles during the conquest? Is that how they were able disappear and reappear completely avoiding the dragons for the most part
Imagining some slow novice at the citadel stabbing himself in the eye with an obsidian dagger to try and gain telepathy after returning from the tavern, drunk.
I think the whole “George assumes his readers knows that glass candles are” means they are a direct stand in for the palantir - when he talks about entering a man’s dreams, this seems similar to how people can show any image they want to the other palantir users if they have the mental ability to do so. I don’t think changing a man’s dream is as world breaking as you think it is. Bloodraven does it to Bran all the time, probably was doing it to Aerys and maybe Euron as well. This is just the fire equivalent, much the same as there are fire wights etc.
Do we know if the glass candles can influence dreams through time? Could that be where the Targaryens' visions of Dani waking the dragons came from? Same with the vision of the Doom? Maybe someone is trying to warn them.
As idiot as he is, there is something about Victarion that makes me feel sorry for him and I suspect he might redeem himself somehow in the end, or, at least prove useful. George calls him “Vic” so he must be fond of him, too.
I cannot believe you mentioned the last Jedi, since you did is implied that Rey dreams of Kylo Ren before they met, through the forcebond ( in the novelization of the movies)
Is there ANY chance that glass candles are cooled dragon’s blood? In F&B, Balerion’s blood is smoking as it drips out, whereas glass doesn’t smoke even when it’s molten... this would denote that anyone with BOTD would have the same latent power as the glass candles. It would also explain how dragons have connections not just to their riders but to each other.
you say the report could have reports as far as horses could go, but valyria had dragons so it be as far and fast as the dragon could go. big difference. also do they have glass candle waiting? glass candle voice message?
Maybe you can only hear or see through other obsidian items, just like Sam had the dagger and talk with other who has Glass candle too. Infiltrate t or sending dreams you should have some three eye stuff opened or weirwood/shade of the eve drugs in your system
You make a good point about the dream invasion thing with glass candles, but I still disagree that it's implementation is a bad idea. Yes, they can invade dreams, but using this idea as a premise to question every characters dreams I think is a bit of an overreach. We know that they are very rare, so therefore not many people that we know of are using them, so in itself that would put a strict limit on the number of possible dream invasions. Also, we don't know whether or not someone using a glass candle needs to "know" or "know of" a person in order to invade their dreams, or if it can literally be anyone (which seems kind of impossible if one has never met everyone and can't know that person A, B, or C exists). It may even be possible that the user needs some kind of object (personal item perhaps?) in order to reference that person before they can accomplish such a feat. If anyone using a glass candle can simply invade any person's dreams, then why not just give crazy dreams to the worst people until it drives them mad? I think it's clear that either there is some bit of information we don't yet have in order for us to understand how this works, or that it is extremely limited with respect to how dream invasions work.
The glass candles definitely complicate things. You certainly need some kind of barrier. Generally the limits to magic in these books seems to be the cost. We know it has something to do with blood but I suspect it is more than just a prick of the finger. To activate dream invasion mode you probably need the blood of a virgin or something absurd. Or maybe there isn't a specific recipe for spells but you have a mana bar that can only be filled by committing costly acts like chopping of peoples cocks but once your mana bar is filled you can spend on glass candles or resurrecting people or whatever your preferred magic trick is. Like if you are a warrior and give up your sword hand you have a full mana bar. Or if you are a reader you give up your eye sight. Musician gives up fingers, etc. Seems like all the sorcerers in the series are missing something big.
I rather suspect the glass candles, as dragonbinder horns, are used as prop for negative NON-Targaryen characters in the story, who try to reach a level of magic the Targaryen and their offsprings can achieve through their blood. As we all know how important are names for George, my take is the origin of Targaryen lies in the Tarquins of ancient Rome (the thrope of Lyanna’s rape, the King’s blood) with a hint of the aryan superior race the nazi where so fond of. So my take is Taragaryens, not Valiryans as a whole, are “the special” ones. I kind of suspect only Taragaryen, at list at the begging of the freehold, where able to bond with dragons while the rest of silver haired guys had to use the dragonbinder horns. This will fit well with the Targs orchestrated doom of Valyria theory - maybe the other families did terrible things to them, due to their special blood.
I could have gone my entire life without seeing Daario in a mustached thong 😳😳😱 ...I mean, I could have but I’m glad I did not 😆 Mallory is a talented woman
Why the rant about magic and how it should be thrown out of the novels? This reminds me fatally of D&D dumbing down ASOIAF to GOT by trying to make it more "realistic"... The glass candles are a great device, as long as you do not take everything characters claim about them literally (which GRRM explicitely does advice against in many different cases, especially when it comes up to religious and supersticious ideas of people in the novels) and wait for more clues in the text to solve the mystery - or you come up with solid (or tinfoily) theories, as long as they do not cook down to "That's so dumb - leave it out!" - Boring!
@@JoeMagician Strange, I've always thought that was by far the greatest thing about them, narrative-wise. There's just so many things GRR Martin can do through that single ability. Great video as always, looking forward to the next one.
Watching this in 2024,
Oct 3 is roughly 9 months after Valentine's Day . Also I often do listen to JM's podcast and TH-cam all day. Super interesting, well researched, and brilliant analysis. Keeps me company while I go about my routine.
When I hear the glass candle "flame" doesn't move, I picture an incandescent light bulb as seen by common folk before something like that existed. When I hear that the light was weird I imagine something similar to a black light. In a way it feels like some advanced lost technology rather than magic and I'm still of a mind that George is masquerading some sci-fi elements even if he won't admit it.
Last, but not least... I think we ignore the fact a lovely guy called Xhondo Dhoru is around almost anytime a glass candle is burning. He is in Qarth in ACOK virtually in the same time as the lovely Urrathon and he takes Sam and Maester Aemon on his ship, from Braavos to Oldtown. I rather see him as a friend of Marwyn (a guy who, despite his name, might not be a nice guy at all) and I suspect, glass candle in his possesion or not, is through him Marwyn gets his info on both dragons and whitewalkers. He also gets from Sam the books Aemon got from Castle Black and, as far as I know, he still has Aemon’s dead, but full of kingly blood, body. Whoooo!!!!
There is an old rule in folktales that you cant magic iron.
This would explain the swords in the crypts of winterfell and the masks
Regarding the glass candle call waiting absurdity: "We've been trying to reach you about your dragon's extended warranty...."
I’m glad to see the house plant behind you
Things that mimic Taragaryen magic: dragonhorns and glass candles able to send dreams similar with dragondreams make me believe somewhere out there, as well in Quaithe’s prophecy, a a false dragon is lurking. No, is not Faegon - although not Rhaegar’s son, this guy is a Targaryen from a lesser branch. My guess is the fake dragon is, indeed, Euron, who is so prone to garb himself in valiryan things although it seems impossible for him to have even a drop of Targaryen blood.
@@blabla187 How dare you? Nettles is as Targaryen as everyone else.
Wow! I am so sorry to have missed this stream last week. It was such a good take on such a thorny subject. Especially I do share your worries about some elements overcomplicating the story. For me is dragonbinder horns, but, I keep faith George will use these elements only to enhance certain aspects of the story and not to find magic explanations for otherwise unexplainable things. That is not George and I am still waiting for him to present us even with the good part of the White Walkers.
Was late to the stream but now I get to have a few cups of coffee and rewatch the whole thing. Glass candles are one of my most favorite topics, there is great possibility with it. Dany with a glass candle would be so powerful!
Likes for the TH-cam god.
Comments for the TH-cam throne.
Dreams, especially metaphor/symbolic dreams, happen via the weir wood net, like with Bran or Jamie. For glass candles, people appear in dreams as themselves, as Quaith does. Even when Quaith comes to Dany as "stars" in her dreams, Dany knows who it is. Is there any evidence that glass candles actually give dreams- like Dany's dragon dreams.
I do like the fact that every dream may be sent by someone with a glass candle !!❤
The tower of Hightower is itself a giant glass candle?!?
Lol yesss
they have a green glass candle and several other
Consider this a blood sacrifice to the TH-cam algorithm gods.
^^
Haha while I appreciate the comments for their own sake for engagement, I'd prefer ones that have something to say as well. Looks a little strange y'know?
Well remember, Marwyn is the Arch Maester of Magic, so he knows specifically, as it is his field. I imagine Marwyn is treated as an Alchemist would be in a modern University, for centuries (likely, I don't believe magic just stopped suddenly, likely a slow decline after the Doom, or perhaps even earlier, it's just became more noticeable a century ago), the field became ever increasingly obsolete.
Also George's version of the Palantirs
if sam learns to use the glas candle, he could send a message with his crucial knowledge to the north without having to actually get there. old town will be attacked and as things are right now, most people expect sam to get out because he has to convey information. this would be a possibility around that. Sam, while shit hits the fan, runs to marvin's office and grabs the glass candle, sends a sos message with both his information and "omg this terrible thing is happening here" and then it cuts off. and for a while we dont know if he made it. that would be really cool and work well for tension
Turned up late live, so am watching it now! Thankyou joemagician.... Great as always!!!
2 years n 22 days later I wanna wish everyone a happy belated birthday to all the oct.3rd new years babies
October 3rd is national holiday in Germany :D Funny there are so many people having birthday.
Thanks for your stream! I love listening to you :) Hope I can join a livestream in future.
I never thought the maesters tests as a humbling experience, I think that the maesters were proud that the glass candles weren't burning
I thought that the flame was just bright. I think of a nightmarish and sickly white, like how bright lights feel when one is about to pass out. It is the other colors in the room which get their saturation cranked way up.
It reminded me of a halogen lamp or the arc of a TIG welder. Maybe not THAT bright, welding arcs will cook your cornea if you stare at them.
Also I guess we pass out in different ways lol. When my vague nerve acts up everything goes black, then I see pinpoints of light trailing backwards like in Star Wars, THEN I pass out.
If you put out an edited version, 30 minutes or less, I'd bet the views would go way up⤴️⬆️🆙
I think the location of the glass candles important and everyone we see kind of so far is that one of those access points. I think that's why marwin couldn't take one with him. It was probably set up thousands of years ago by the original magic practices to talk to each other and they can't just be moved and used as like a walkie-talkie
Just found this one Matt. Glass candles always intrigued me. Not a book reader but intend to in the foreseeable future. Thank you so much 💓 for being so informative. Your channel along with: order of the green hand, gray area, talking thrones, altshiftx, dragon demands, fire and blood, smokescreen, because geek, and nerd soup have always been the goto for GOT and asoif. Thank you so much you guy's 😘 So looking forward to HOTD. N maybe that dunk n egg ;))
I have a good name for a Valyrian soap opera: the dragons of the soul
So...it sounds like you and Robert/In Deep Geek should do a video that's "When In Doubt, Blame: Bloodraven (IDG) vs. Glass Candles (JM)," and just duke it out, haha.
Great topic bro! Absolutely loved it
would love to see a future episode on Quentyn!
Euron probably got a glass candle in that empty eye socket.
Do you think the Dornish used the glass candles during the conquest? Is that how they were able disappear and reappear completely avoiding the dragons for the most part
If a glass candle is just obsidian, can the daggers also be used to see?
Probably not, it seems that these were more manufactured than naturally occuring.
Imagining some slow novice at the citadel stabbing himself in the eye with an obsidian dagger to try and gain telepathy after returning from the tavern, drunk.
I think the whole “George assumes his readers knows that glass candles are” means they are a direct stand in for the palantir - when he talks about entering a man’s dreams, this seems similar to how people can show any image they want to the other palantir users if they have the mental ability to do so. I don’t think changing a man’s dream is as world breaking as you think it is. Bloodraven does it to Bran all the time, probably was doing it to Aerys and maybe Euron as well. This is just the fire equivalent, much the same as there are fire wights etc.
Do we know if the glass candles can influence dreams through time? Could that be where the Targaryens' visions of Dani waking the dragons came from? Same with the vision of the Doom? Maybe someone is trying to warn them.
As idiot as he is, there is something about Victarion that makes me feel sorry for him and I suspect he might redeem himself somehow in the end, or, at least prove useful. George calls him “Vic” so he must be fond of him, too.
I cannot believe you mentioned the last Jedi, since you did is implied that Rey dreams of Kylo Ren before they met, through the forcebond ( in the novelization of the movies)
My favorite star war :)
@@JoeMagician SAME
Is there ANY chance that glass candles are cooled dragon’s blood? In F&B, Balerion’s blood is smoking as it drips out, whereas glass doesn’t smoke even when it’s molten... this would denote that anyone with BOTD would have the same latent power as the glass candles. It would also explain how dragons have connections not just to their riders but to each other.
Obsidian explosions can melt Valyrian-Steel beams.
I love you Joe!!
you say the report could have reports as far as horses could go, but valyria had dragons so it be as far and fast as the dragon could go. big difference. also do they have glass candle waiting? glass candle voice message?
glass candles are what caused aerys to go mad
Maybe you can only hear or see through other obsidian items, just like Sam had the dagger and talk with other who has Glass candle too. Infiltrate t or sending dreams you should have some three eye stuff opened or weirwood/shade of the eve drugs in your system
Good video
The Stark fleet could used to transport armies to fight the Others.
Late January not early
The glass candles would explain how Gods are born. All of them spawned from dream inception . Just like green seers but more hardcore
You make a good point about the dream invasion thing with glass candles, but I still disagree that it's implementation is a bad idea.
Yes, they can invade dreams, but using this idea as a premise to question every characters dreams I think is a bit of an overreach. We know that they are very rare, so therefore not many people that we know of are using them, so in itself that would put a strict limit on the number of possible dream invasions.
Also, we don't know whether or not someone using a glass candle needs to "know" or "know of" a person in order to invade their dreams, or if it can literally be anyone (which seems kind of impossible if one has never met everyone and can't know that person A, B, or C exists). It may even be possible that the user needs some kind of object (personal item perhaps?) in order to reference that person before they can accomplish such a feat. If anyone using a glass candle can simply invade any person's dreams, then why not just give crazy dreams to the worst people until it drives them mad? I think it's clear that either there is some bit of information we don't yet have in order for us to understand how this works, or that it is extremely limited with respect to how dream invasions work.
I like the screen
F for bulbasaur.
The glass candles definitely complicate things. You certainly need some kind of barrier. Generally the limits to magic in these books seems to be the cost. We know it has something to do with blood but I suspect it is more than just a prick of the finger. To activate dream invasion mode you probably need the blood of a virgin or something absurd. Or maybe there isn't a specific recipe for spells but you have a mana bar that can only be filled by committing costly acts like chopping of peoples cocks but once your mana bar is filled you can spend on glass candles or resurrecting people or whatever your preferred magic trick is. Like if you are a warrior and give up your sword hand you have a full mana bar. Or if you are a reader you give up your eye sight. Musician gives up fingers, etc. Seems like all the sorcerers in the series are missing something big.
Came here to listen lore while cleaning, stayed for Daario thongs
Clearly Joe Magician hasn't watched Austin Powers :P
I rather suspect the glass candles, as dragonbinder horns, are used as prop for negative NON-Targaryen characters in the story, who try to reach a level of magic the Targaryen and their offsprings can achieve through their blood.
As we all know how important are names for George, my take is the origin of Targaryen lies in the Tarquins of ancient Rome (the thrope of Lyanna’s rape, the King’s blood) with a hint of the aryan superior race the nazi where so fond of. So my take is Taragaryens, not Valiryans as a whole, are “the special” ones. I kind of suspect only Taragaryen, at list at the begging of the freehold, where able to bond with dragons while the rest of silver haired guys had to use the dragonbinder horns. This will fit well with the Targs orchestrated doom of Valyria theory - maybe the other families did terrible things to them, due to their special blood.
In a way that would also explain why they didn't believe the Targs about the Doom happening and if they want to survive to leave to Westeros with them
It's glass candles all the way down
I don't want it haha
@@JoeMagician the sword Dawn is equivalent to the big palantir that can monitor all the smaller palantiri. Boom, we cracked this plot wide open boys.
I could have gone my entire life without seeing Daario in a mustached thong 😳😳😱
...I mean, I could have but I’m glad I did not 😆 Mallory is a talented woman
She's as astoundingly great artist
But why, why . . . I will never be able to ride my mind of that image . . . I am scared for life . . .^^
I'm a hungry weirwood
The candles they test the novices with might be fake
Why the rant about magic and how it should be thrown out of the novels? This reminds me fatally of D&D dumbing down ASOIAF to GOT by trying to make it more "realistic"... The glass candles are a great device, as long as you do not take everything characters claim about them literally (which GRRM explicitely does advice against in many different cases, especially when it comes up to religious and supersticious ideas of people in the novels) and wait for more clues in the text to solve the mystery - or you come up with solid (or tinfoily) theories, as long as they do not cook down to "That's so dumb - leave it out!" - Boring!
So, as I said, it's specifically the glass candles ability to invade dreams and influence people I don't like. Not magic in general.
@@JoeMagician Strange, I've always thought that was by far the greatest thing about them, narrative-wise. There's just so many things GRR Martin can do through that single ability.
Great video as always, looking forward to the next one.
Likes for the TH-cam god.
Comments for the TH-cam throne.