Solace Cycles Pinion Gates Carbon Drive Calderdale what is a gearbox like to use with the grip shift
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ธ.ค. 2024
- Please note everything in the video is my own personal opinion. There is no right or wrong system. It is just what works for you, and gearboxes work for me. If you want to know more then @Cyclingabout is a brilliant resource for looking at the actual data through experiments about different shifting systems. Again this is a personal opinion when I have used derailleur I have always had my bikes set up with friction shifters. @PathLessPedaledTV is a good resource if you would like to know more about the advantages of friction shifting. The reason why I love gearboxes and IGH's is that they have some of the advantages of friction shifting and a load more. Plus pair them with an @Gates.bicycle belt and the advantages grow and grow.
Yes they are a proprietary system BUT they have hardly changed since they first came to market and any changes they make they seem to make sure it is easy to upgrade the part so what you bought is never out of date. For example Pinion brought out an updated shifter and if you had the older shifter you can easily swap to the new shifter etc. The new SRAM mechs now need a proprietary frame and the cost is way more than a gearbox. So the arguments of cost and being tied into the gearbox ecosystem is not valid anymore as SRAM makes more and more links with brands to fit their proprietary rear mechs.
I have had Rohloffs and Pinion gearboxes for quite a few years. Rohloffs since 2015 and I got my first Pinion Gearbox in 2017 on a Ti Pilot Vamos. That was a lovely bike but the geometry was not right for the kind of riding I was doing at that time.
I love the way Rohloffs and Pinion gearboxes shift with their twist shifter. I personnally feel it is the best way to shift a gearbox. If you try to go for a trigger shifter or brifter which is possible you lose a bit of the advantage of the gearbox ie the ability to go through THE WHOLE GEAR range in one motion. I have used the cinq brifters but these allow about a three gear shift at a time.
The things you see in reviews is that you cant shift under load. I hope to prove that it is not as complicated as people make out in reviews and comments. You just need to lift of the pressure a little bit just like you should with a traditional system.
The area where I am riding is Calderdale. It was a lovely sunny day. So if you have questions about gearboxes such as:
1) What is a Pinion Gearbox like to ride
2) What are the advantages of a Pinion or Rohloff?
3) Are Pinion gearboxes heavy?
4) Can you shift under load?
5) What are Gates Carbon Drive belts like to ride?
Then some of my videos might help, but check out the other links I put at the top of the description for facts, figures etc.
#gatescarbondrive
#pinioneu
#solacecycles
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A really interesting video, with beautiful scenery (and polite language throughout): true for all your videos. They're a credit to you, Sir! I'm really looking forward to seeing your Rohloff build, as and when. Thanks for your efforts, from near the Welsh border.
Many thanks 🙏🏽
@@RidingBicycles I've thought of something else: expressing gratitude for car-free routes, especially if from your own home*, is really important. Well done.
* a bit jealous. It takes me 1.5 miles till I can be on the bridleways.
thank you so much for your contents! they got me one step closer to buy my new P18 tout terrain silkroad explore 275! I'm just waiting for it to arrive and to get my derailleur to retirement!! so exited!
They are a solid, comfortable bike. I had a 26” wheel size Rohloff and it was a lovely looking thing.
Love your content on the pinion! It helped me a lot. I’m Having a Custom steel Reynolds 853 pinion bikepacking rig to put my dog on the back, and the ease of maintenance and rugged build quality of pinion is what made me trust being able to take my dog on extended journeys into the unknown!
Sounds like lots of fun and adventures to be had with man’s best friend!
After watching your videos I have brought a P.18pinion and currently testing it on the King Alfred’s Way. Half way around now and the pinion has been faultless and always has the gear I need.
If you just want to jump on a bike and know it will work faultlessly regardless of the conditions along with Rohloffs they are the best inventions since the bicycle wheel 😂. Just remember if you are using a belt to carry a spare. My partner and I were just this weekend talking about that route. Let us know how you find it. Enjoy your trip!! Beautiful weather for it!!
Lovely bike and part of the UK to live and ride.
The changing gear under load issue usually comes from people who basically have no mechanical sympathy whatsoever. Ignore them.
The Pinion gearbox is brilliant. As you say, you have to ride a bike with one fitted or indeed a Rohloff to appreciate how good they are.
I now have a fat bike Kona Wo with an XXL Rohloff. It is awesome. I should imagine a fat bike with Pinion P18 gearbox would be even more awesome. Both ideal for riding off road terrain. My Rohloff fat bike off road is such a joy to ride. I have 4 inch tyres on it atm. I should do a review of it and upload it to YT like you have done with your bikes. The thing that I hate most is people stopping me and asking if I am riding a fecking E-bike!!! No, I'm not lazy.
The Gates belt is awesome too. As you say low maintenance and no more muck and grime nor the need for cleaning and lubing or getting oil on your clothes or hands except if you have to fix a friend's bike whose still using the horrors of derailleurs, chain and cassette. People seem to think just because you ride a bike with Pinion or Rohloff gearbox you have no experience of derailleur gears. LoL. Like you I have ridden bicycles for many decades and after 30 years of suffering with derailleurs discovered Rohloff and never looked back. There is now also Pinion. Wooohooo! Don't miss derailleur gears one bit. High maintenance fragile things and now very expensive even more so than IHGs.
Shame the video of your bike will only attract a niche group of cyclists who know about these sorts of gearboxes and bikes and can appreciate them.
Have you sold all your derailleur bikes? You were rebuilding one iirc?
Thanks for making this video. Very interesting. Will check out Solace bikes.
I had a Salsa Blackborrow Fatbike with 5” tyres it was ace. I can imagine a Rohloff or Pinion version of that would of been ace.
The plan was to eventually turn the two Salsa Fargos I had to Rohloff but even though I followed Salsa size guide after a few rides I decided that the frame was too small for me and quite a few people were maybe suggesting that from looking at the seat post. I have a dodgy knee without cartilage and it would hurt even more than normal and my back would be all bent over after a ride. So my partner now has my Ti Fargo which will eventually change to Rohloff when I can afford. I have our touring tandem that I am still building up ready for my exploits with my partner. I would love to change that to Rohloff later down the line. And we have our Bromptons that already have a hub gear with Sturmey Archer. Kinetics cycles in Glasgow do Rohloff conversion for Rohloff if I had the money I would do that as well! But I don’t and retirement is looming so it is time to call time on all my tinkering, but that won’t be a problem as I am over the moon with the Solace. It is basically a Fargo with Pinion. Change the tyres and it can do anything.
All the best.
Hey, this was nice, thank you, we should do it again sometime. Any tips on keeping your electrical devices alive during a long trip?
I use a combination of battery packs and a dynamo hub. On trips of about a week I just have a big battery pack. On longer trips I use the dynamo hub to charge a smaller battery pack and then charge my devices from that.
I was hoping you’d taken the ironing board up on the moors 👍🏻
Next time 😂
I have 2 bikes with a Rohloff & one With a pinion , For me I like the pinion maybe because of the belt drive & it can be submerged in water & the Rohloff can't according to them .
@@kevindean9613 I fully submerged my Rohloff a few times in rivers with no ‘known’ issues. I think if you do end up submerging it I would do an oil change as soon as reasonably possible afterwards.
@@RidingBicycles I agree , I haven't used either of the Rohloff bikes for a couple of years now , I've had the Rohloff slip gears a couple of times ,They are both very clever systems but for me the belt drive ,bike balance ,gear action & being able to swap out wheels wins .Pinion even remind me when to change oil .The electric gear change looks very cool .
Hi - enjoyed the Video - is there a Dealer in the UK for Solace Cycles?
Hi, no they are direct sales. The owners are very friendly and are more of in the business to help local and biking communities. So price is good but you will have to pay duty. Other alternatives of similar bikes are NUA and Sonder. Both are really nice. You get a Ti fork with the NUA though!
I was really excited when I saw this video. I was hoping this would be another UK pinion bike but unfortunately it is from the USA. Did you order it directly from Solace or do they have a dealer in the UK. At the moment the only Ti pinion bikes I can find in the UK are from Sonder and Olsen. One frame builder in Ironbridge offers to build me a Tout Terrain Outback replica for £8000, that’s mad. I am probably going to plumb for the Sonder Broken Road Pinion. In your opinion is there that much of a difference between the P18 and C12. Is the P18 worth the extra money and weight for an extra 36% efficiency or is the 11.5 % step that much better than 17% on P18.
Hi, I have a dodgy knee no cartilage so I really do appreciate the smaller steps of the gears of the P.18. The range is not an issue at all as the C12 has a bigger range than a derailleur setup. I do not worry about the little bit of extra weight between the two. I think the P18 is made a bit stronger and I like that. I can’t tell a difference in weight between my Ti P.18 Solace and the Ti Salsa Fargo with 1x12 derailleur. The Broken Road looks a very similar bike to the Solace the geometries look very close. I think the Broken Road is very good value. When you buy from Geoff at Solace you pay all the custom charges in advance as they use Bike Flights so it comes straight to your door without bothering with UK customs, it was less than a week, only three or four days from dispatch.
Did you put a hole in the carbon fork to hold the mudguard/ I ask because I normally use a Pelago front rack that requires such a fixing point & I'm looking a a similar bike ?
The fork already had the bosses for all the mounts I needed. Do not put your own holes in carbon forks it will make them weaker and could cause a nasty accident. All warranties would be void. The fork I have on is the Salsa Firestarter Delux. Brothers Cycles does a carbon fork which is a lot cheaper than the salsa. I can’t remember if it has bosses for racks though. Other ones to consider are Whisky, cinq, bombtrack. You need to measure your axle to crown measurement and get something that is in the ball park. 5-10mm either way should be ok, but check with the store before purchasing. As a different measurement to the fork you are using will change the geometry.
@@RidingBicycles thank you
Hi, Could you compare this bike towards the Tout Terrain Outback? What made you chose this over the Outback? I'm playing with the idea of buying one of them to have as an allround bike, what attracts me is the ability to do mountain biking in addition to some more regular biking actives.
Hello, Both bikes are MTB bikes with the same geometry. The main difference between the two is one is steel and gearbox and the other is Ti and derailleur. I have just written a post to bikepacking.com on the Priority HXT review but it is waiting to be moderated. I have included the post text below as I think it will answer most of your questions.
Hi, before I join the conversation I just want to be clear that this is just my personal opinion and I know I am not right or wrong, it is just what I think.
There is a lot stated about the advantages of a Pinion and Gates combination so I am going to focus on the weight as that seems to be a discussion point. At the end I will discuss why I am turning my back on the Pinion gearbox and maybe selling my current Pinion bike.
I have had quite a bit of experience with Gates, Pinion and Rohloff. I have had a Pinion bike in the shed for maybe the last 12 years. The list of Pinion bikes that I have had is below.
Pilot Vamos - Titanium Adventure Touring Frame - 16+ kg
Tout Terrain Outback - Steel Adventure Touring Frame - 15-16 kg
Tout Terrain Scrambler x2 - Steel Gravel Frame - 13-14 kg
Solace Cycles OM-2P (current bike) - Titanium Adventure Touring Frame with Ti Cycles fork - 15 kg
Some of the bikes I have built up myself, you can get most things Pinion related from pinion-bikes.de . The only reason you would want to buy your gearbox separate to the frame is if your frame provider as a hefty mark up and that is all dependent on what country you live in.
Many many years ago when Santos had a dealer local to me here in the UK I was talking with the owner of the bike shop and I was discussing the possibility of retro fitting a Rohloff and belt to a frame I had. He advised that the torque belts can put through a rear triangle when you pedal can misalign the frames (this is the view of the owner and not Santos). I think I recall that adverts about this time had little logos to say Gates Certified if they were selling belt drive bikes. Maybe it was for this reason? Maybe they need to be built a bit more burly than your standard bike not just to take the weight of the gearbox. So talking about the weight issues. As you can see from the list of bikes above the frame material does not make that much difference. A Ti bike is not that much lighter if at all, than a steel one. Carbon might be different but I have not had experience with one.
The Tout Terrain Scramblers are lighter, but they are a 50mm max wheeled gravel bike and an equivalent derailleur bike would be around 10 to 12 kg. So you may be wondering why I don't mind the weight. The reason is I don't tend to ride with other people. If I do I generally take a derailleur bike. The reason being, it is harder to keep up with riders of a similar ability. I did the Cairngorm Loop with friends on one of the bikes listed above and I was wrecked by the end even though my friends, they won't mind me saying, are of lesser fitness. People state that if you load a bike up then weight does not matter, but regardless of your starting point if it is heavier to start off with it is going to be heavier when loaded up, this makes a difference when you are pushing your bike up endless passes. No matter how much you are carrying psychologically you know your set up could be 2 - 3 kg or more lighter with a different bike. Why do I like Pinion, Gates, Rohloff? For all the reasons we hear about all the time. No maintenance, no concerns when out riding, changing gear when not moving etc, etc etc.
Just to answer some quick points that have come up in the discussion.
1) You can tell a belt is coming towards the end of its lifecycle you just look at it and check for wear. You can change it then or weight for it to break just like a chain.
2) Belts are strong, they are not fragile things. You just need to make sure you fold and fit it correct. Just like you would not bend a chain sideways.
3) Belts do not stretch at all, so your cogs are going to last longer. Change the cogs when the teeth look like they are changing shape and your belts will keep to the desired life cycle.
Again, what I say below is personal opinion. I am not right or wrong it is just how I feel.
So if I like them, why am I thinking of selling? - One big reason why I jumped on board was the prospect of owning a brand that had longevity with its parts and did not follow market trends for the sake of fashion. They make a product that has been pretty much been the same since it was introduced and any improvements have generally been backwards compatible or like Rohloff they introduce a part that can make it backwards compatible. I must be one of the few people out there that don't mind a twist shifter. I have lots of other bikes that all use a different way of shifter. They are all friction shifters some on the bar ends, some thumb, I also use downtubes shifters on my Brothers Cycles Mr Wooden and Black Mountain Road bike. As long as it is a friction shifter I have no preference over which shifter I use it is just a way to change gear. So as you can imagine, I am not a fan of electronic shifting, yes I have used it, yes it works very well. I just think it is another unnecessary introduction of more batteries in the world that we don't need like the electric toothbrush. Plus another opportunity for manufacturers to make proprietary parts to tie you to their brand with zero interchangeability. As you can probably tell I am a fifty year old that wants the bicycle to remain a simple thing in life. So I am sticking with all my friction shifting bikes, cause I love um. I have started waxing the chains, this keeps your hands clean. I love tinkering with bikes and changing parts in and out and with my friction bikes my options are near enough unlimited.
So if you are interested I have a very low mileage (300 miles max) medium Ti Solace Cycles with Ti Cycles (handmade in Portland) fork. I can sell this as a full bike with various wheels sizes and SON hubs etc. or as a frame/fork/gearbox. If you do a search for ridingbicycles.co.uk you should be able to find my blog and/or youtube channel.
For those wondering I think electric bikes are a good addition to a household as a car replacement or for accessibility reasons (age, mobility, etc). But when fit healthy middle aged men are using them to finish a route and get to the pub quicker my view becomes a bit blurred.
Hope this helps to push the discussion forward.
@RidingBicycles you had both version with pinion, Solace OM-2P and Tout Terrain Outback. So the riding charactics are almost the same and the main difference is steel vs titanium? Are one of them more capable doing offroad/mtb? As I wrote first I like the thought of one bike that can do it all, main idea is doing bike rides on trails on local mountains, but maybe I will dip my toe into some bikepacking some day as well. There would also be some bikeing along roads and stuff like that so that would exclude the bikes that only focus on mtb/downhill.
The one thing I am sure of is that the bike I will end up with will have Pinion geerbox and belt drive. Many of your videos have convinced me that it is the correct choice.
@@Niflheim919 Sorry I thought you were asking my opinion of my Stanton MTB versus the Outback.
So yes the only difference is frame material. They both have similar geometry and both take the same travel suspension fork. The Solace Cycles is about lighter and I think is more fun to ride. The Outback is a nice smooth ride. Both are ace for bikepacking and you don’t have to worry about maintenance. Don’t let my choice deter you. My decision is purely based on an ideology that we need less batteries in the world. Pinion and belt are amazing for riding without worry or concern over your drivetrain. And the fact you can shift gear whilst stationary is really beneficial with a loaded bike. You don’t realise how much you appreciate it until you have the option to use it.
@@RidingBicycles thanks for your feedback. Highly appreciate it. Do you know how much lighter the om-p2 is compared to the Outback?
I find it hard to come across information about these kind of bikes and how they perform in their mtb role, most articles is about long journey bike packing.
I would say the Outback is a kg or two heavier. If you are in England I have the Solace for sale with loads of spares I can sell it as a frameset with a carbon Firestarter fork. A full bike or just the frame and gearbox. It has only done 200 dry miles. I have spare belts and oil change kits and Pinion tools which I can also sell. If you are abroad I am sure we could sort something out regarding shipping. We are hoping to move abroad within the next year so I am going to be having to sell most of my bikes barr a couple and the Solace will be one to go. You can contact me on djugroop@gmail.com
Hi mate hope you all well I need to get InTouch with to ask couple questions if that ok many thanks
@@adelkandil4069 Hi, you can contact me through my website at ridingbicycles.co.uk cheers