Dyno Death March! Testing Jeep Engine Combos for Power
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- Whether you love straight six engines in general or Jeep engines in particular, we've got some dyno testing for you. We worked with Jeep engine specialists Newcomer Racing (www.newcomerra...) on the dyno over two days to test multiple throttle body and intake manifold combinations to see which made the best power.
Here's a link to our previous cylinder head test with Newcomer Racing -- • We Test 5 Jeep Cylinde...
Engine Builder: Newcomer Racing -- www.newcomerra...
This is MUSIC to my ears.
As the Afternoon Senior Technician in the Performance Test Cell at Chrysler JTE working on the 4.0L, I can not begin to tell you how MANY combinations of intake and exhaust manifolds we tested on this engine.
So.
All this noise is music to my ears.
Some of the music was also supercharged.........
The things most will NEVER see before an engine is introduced to the public.
BTW, the supercharged engine found it's way into a Commanche, it FRIED the tires off that little pick up!
Our Flow Lab man, had a D-Altered with a 4.0L. It spun to 7800 RPM. It made the small hairs on your neck stand on end....the noise? GLORIOUS!!!!
AND, did ya know the 1st Vipers had TWIN Jeep 4.0L throttle bodies........???????
YUP.......
Sooo…. There are intake manifolds out there with dual throttle bodies??
For vipers yeah...@manfredolson6889
Somewhere the engineer who put that neckdown in the stock throttlebody has earned a good I-told-ya-so
It was likely done for a very good reason. Likely hp & torque at certain RPM range. When the 4.0 was first being developed it supposedly put out 242 hp. One hp per cubic inch. But they were breaking drive train parts. Primarily rear axle assemblies iirc. They were spinning the axle tubes in the housings. Dana had been contracted to build the rear ends and the tooling was shipped to them. When AMC built the rear ends* the axle tube was welded at one point into the rear end housing. Dana thought this is what held the tube in place. Actually the tubes had between .005 to .010" press fit to the housing. When the tubes where pressed in it was so loud that area was enclosed. Manufacturing the rear end housings were a PITA simply because of keeping the three bores in proper alignment. Simply having too high of a clamping pressure would result in the parts being out of spec.
*we once made Ring and Pinion sets for Ford. The first sets after they came out of heat treat were set-up on the test machines to run them to check mesh pattern etc. They made excessive noise. The Ford engineer thought they sounded fine. The next test machine had a set of our gears on it. They turned it on and all you heard was a low hum. Every ring and Pinion set in an AMC rear end was a matched set because they where run through a lapping operation as the last step of manufacturing.
If you look through the throttle body, at small throttle inputs the neck makes it so only one side of the throttle body is letting in air. Helps a lot with driveability with the all torque no real hp 4.0
Cylinder distribution played a HUGE part. Curved plenum intakes made more torque, straight plenums made more HP. Plenum volume and it's length made the job difficult for cylinders 1&6.
Axles? We tested them by doing forward/reverse shifts at peak torque RPM with the vehicle tied to BIG honking concrete poles. Not sexy. But SO fun to watch them bust shit!
@@mpetersen6 Every gear set that I have bought be it factory or aftermarket like Richmond gear they all are matched gear sets that are lapped together at these factories that make them . I've never had a problem with a noisy set of gears from Richmond or any stock factory gear sets in the differentials I've built through the years as long as you have the gear tooth pattern set up correctly when checking tooth pattern using yellow pattern grease . I've even set up known good used gears in rear ends that weren't used in the same housing and never had issues other than with used ring & pinion gears you check the coast side of the ring gear pattern more than the driven side because with used ring & pinion gears the driven side is worn more than the coast side of the ring gear and this gives you a more accurate gear pattern . I get what your saying as far as maybe some differential housings can be not exactly the same which is true but that's why different thickness shims are used to adjust for this by either moving the pinion gear in or out more to get that in spec or by shimming the ring gear closer our further away from the pinion gear to achieve the correct tooth pattern. Granted some differentials don't use shims and have adjusters on each end of the gear housing like the Ford 9 inch & Chryslers 8 &3/4 uses where you just turn what sides need to be turned to shift the gear housing in the direction it needs to go to get the correct gear pattern for the ring & pinion . I had GM 12 bolts that were spot welded like you were saying that those welds broke on the 1/2 ton 4x4 trucks and on a Elcamino I worked on & had to pull the rear end out and use a big pipe wrench with the rear end mounted solid so it wouldn't move to a fixture I made to then used the pipe wrench to turn the axle tube back into its correct placement again then re welded those spots again & welded around the axle tube and housing right where that axle tube is pressed into the housing and had no issues with a noisy rear differential. As long as the housing itself is machined correctly for the gear sets and the concentricity is spot on you really shouldn't have any issues with gears not being able to be shimmed or adjusted correctly for the desired gear patterns be it with new or a known good matched set of used gears that were taken out & swapped for a different gear ratio for either a performance gain application or for a fuel milage gain with lower rpm while cruising. I'm sure especially now that there's probably been instances where someone bought a brand new gear set that weren't properly lapped in and they installed them to spec and checked gear tooth pattern and it looked good but the gears whined and made noise because it was a set of gears that got by inspection and quality control but in all the years I've built differentials I've never had a problem like this with a gear set that wasn't lapped in but anything is possible now that most things aren't being made here like they used to be.
If was for noise reduction
I am nearly 40 years old, and have been a nerd since I was 4 years old. I absolutely LOVE videos like this! Yet another channel I am so glad I found :)
This was like engine masters. But i didn't have to pay 4 bucks a month to watch it. Thank you so much
I love this kind of videos, it shows that the amc 4.0 can be a beast
I have several Newcomer Racing products on my 4.0 Jeep. I like their products and they are good quality.
Always cool to see back to back testing on the same engine combo . The engine sounds nice under load too. Thanks for the content.
Sounds like I'd be happy with any of these on the big displacement engine. Great job Newcomer doing all this work and thanks for sharing the results.
I swear you make VERY high quality content, sir!!! Always good stuff, very informative, good pictures and fun
My boys and I enjoy our stroked 4.6 producing 352HP/350TQ from Keith in the LJ.
Great video, I have been waiting years for someone to do this 👍
Thanks a lot!
Great job!
I have a 4.6L stroker and bore TBs for Jeep 3.7/4.0/4.7/5.2/5.9.
I always knew that the 62mm TB is the best choice for stock 4.0 Jeep.
How did you tune it
I’ve been checking 5x a day for 2 weeks waiting for another 4.0 video
Thanks for watching!
Would've been really cool if there was a clean way to test this against an offy or clifford 4bbl intake. Awesome video, great job from Newcomer as always. Your videos are why I started buying parts from him!
and then there is the SOUND of the different intakes....of which the fabbed straight runner unit sounds sweet!
Very excited another Jeep 4.0 motor vidieo! Was looking faward to this!!!
I love this channel the possibilities for my 2000 Grand Cherokee are endless just takes knowledge a little bit of money and patience
Thanks for letting us GEEK out guys. Great vid.
I’m surprised he hasn’t made his own cross flow head yet for these things
Yea really, then he can make some good power with just the cross flow alone and same volumes of runners
Can you imagine how much business he would get?! That would be so cool.
ford 300? bolt on ? as i think the two are cousins design wise
add jag as well?
How about DOHC crossflow. Yea, we looked at that at JTE....... Beau Coup HP, but torque down low where Jeeps are used? Not much to be gained. Bear in mind, that is where most Jeeps were being used at the time. This was being done on 1990's level engine controls. NOT the 21 Century as is today......where you can dial in SO much.
How have I never seen this. Love watching this kind of stuff
Still though I do love everything newcomer does. They come up with some pretty cool stuff.
Can you show how to make maximum power and torque around 2500 rpm? I rarely rev my Jeep over 3000 rpm. I don’t need to know how to make maximum power at 6000 rpm.
Camchaft and crazy supercharger
The last Jeep video you did it ended up as an Engine Labs article and you covered a record hp run. I know this is going to be good even tho I know nothing about this motor.
Hey thanks! And yeah, they cover a lot of my videos. I know several of the guys over there and they are good folks. Thanks for watching
@@TheHorsepowerMonster 2005-2006 has a different throttle body because of the IAC valve, I have both earlier and later 4.0 L and they will not fit. F&B also makes 66-68mm throttle body for early 96-04 Jeep 4.0, I have one for over 18 years now.
Love these dyno days
Thanks!
Would liked to have seen both headers tested on the best of ported stock intakes to see the differences.
seems to me the "curved runner" intake is the the way to go for most jeep/amc 6's
I would like to see a extrude honed curved runner vs. the cut open ported short runner
Agreed.
I think you will find the carb set up had the dip because of engine vibration at that RPM. I have a video up on an Iron Duke w a carb and we had the big dip problem also. No mater how we changed the tune it just would no go away. Love your stuff, doing an awesome job for sure.
Probably right. Thanks for watching
looks like that big manifold likes that Holley 4 barrel! I'd like to see that combo dialed in with a matching cam!
Great tests! These kinds of comparison videos are extremely helpful!
I've Tracked Down 15 of these in my area with broken piston skirts I can't imagine stressing these things on a dyno
@3:05, Keith says the stock throttle body necks down to 54mm, but in several subsequent comments you said 58mm. I'm left wondering which it is. But this is a very cool comparison! It's waaay more data than most of us could ever hope (or afford) to gather on our own!
great test. If only there were DCOE's or ITB's as well :)
Thanks! And I agree
@@TheHorsepowerMonster
Can I get your contact info..
Port match straight runner for an off road set up. That's the one for me.
Get the banks header, port your straight runner, 4 hole injectors,port the throttle body, relocate the intake air temp sensor to the air box, use lead foot to go fast!!!
I think an individual throttle body/carburetor setup would be easy enough to fabricate and would increase airflow immensely. That would in my opinion be the best option that wasn't looked at🤫
Heck yeah another Jeep video!
My 72 IH Scout with a 4.0 in place of the 258 and a FAST computer handling injector/spark duty is in love! This stuff is yum!!😉👍
Can't wait for a stroker in my MJ and in my amc eagle
Love to see more AMC I6 stuff! I always want to see more camshaft and RPM with these things. What's with Jeep guys and wanting torque anyway? haha
um the engine's habits for one and 2 what do expect a linebacker to turn into a ballerina cheerleader character ? that's why i feel the 4.0L works better with a manual transmission than a automatic transmission as the potential power band lines up better
that last setup on dyno looks badass :D
I'd like to see this dropped in a Fox or SN95 just for fun 🤔
Then boost it after the novelty wears off for some real fun!
Edit: if I'm not mistaken right before they went to the curved manifold, the factory rating was 195 HP there for a couple of years. I'm guessing they went curved to slightly enhance torque output or for emissions purposes. Strange why they even bothered to mess with what already worked. Great testing, love hearing the pulls!
I wondered how something like the intake on the Mopar SL6 would work when i saw the hand fabbed unit. It looks like the curved runners are almost the same length and Mopar back then had discovered the formula to determine the length of intakes and exhausts ....which I suspect was shared with Mercedes.
I love these series.
Thanks!
I’d like to see the Offenhauser intake and Clifford intake used with the Edelbrock head and Holley Sniper or MSD EFI against the Weber carbs.
I’m doing the 4.0 head swap on the 4.2 with the Edelbrock head myself ordered the BUNDLE PACKAGE "Copper intake/exhaust gasket" and "Stainless Steel Winged Washer/ARP bolt kit". from Newcomer Racing site, I’m using it with this Offenhauser 360 degree intake & eventually an MSD EFI master kit.
You guys should also start testing 4.0 headswap 4.2’s , its becoming a popular option with the cast or aluminum head.
Thanks for the great videos and information/ parts. ✌️
That crazy manifold didn't do enough to impress... The bigger throttle body was cool.
NICE TO SEE R.D GOOD WORK BOYS
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I LOVE THE JEEP ENGINE!!!! THANKS FOR SHARING!!!! I LEARNED SO MUCH!!!
Thank you! And thanks for watching!
I'd love to some pulls with individual throttle bodies
Awesome video man
This was so cool to see on my recommended I got a factory purple 96 xj that I’m trying to research building her and I’ve been having a lot of trouble, she’s been mad at me and I need to rebuild the transmission soon and I want to figure out what else I can do to her.
Love watching these Dinosaurs being hurled into modern times when it comes parts and tuning.
Yes I am ready to see more of this
Its too bad no one ever developed a crossflow head...That engine should make 300hp without much modification with stock cam and crank/bore stroke.. I wonder what 6 individual throttle bodies would do?
The fabricated intake should use dual throttle bodies each feeding three cylinders to keep the intake runners equidistant
The good old cast iron Straight. six cylinder engine! Kinda Clunky but very durable and reliable
That much spring pressure seems like it would wipe out a flat tappet cam pretty quick.
Not even that much spring pressure on base my guy
Not many of us with this engine care about power at 5000rpm. We want max power and torque at 1800-2400rpm do you have a video on that?
Just a thought-has anybody extrude-honed one of these intakes to open up the areas that can’t be reached by hand?
Time to add some new parts to the XJ
I would love to see a turbo version of this comparison, especially for the higher flow straight runner intakes.
They have one it’s on a old episode
This is what we all wanted the horse shoe vs the log
Love the straight sixes miss my old 300
That was awesome...😁😁👍👍
Thanks a lot!
Please do this with the stock 4.0 engines.
These tests show that unless you have a modified, stroked, tuned engine, you will not have any noticeable differences.
I know they mentioned that the increased plenum manifold was mostly beneficial at higher RPM on highly modified engines but I'd like to know how much of a difference in throttle response it produced, particularly down low and with rapid throttle changes. Maybe a real world (non-dyno) type test for next time.
Great video! My head was playing thought experiments seeing the throttle body plenum vs runner lengths. I wonder if the carb test fell over because 2 of the runners were so short vs the much longer runners.
i guess thats why a lot of intake manifolds have secondary valves today,.
Love me a good jeep L6
This is AWESOME😃....l like straight 6's🥰....Thanks guy's👍
Inline 6 engines are the best they can't be broken last forever
Power Nation they show $500 and some horsepower out of an inline 6
Power Nation 500 horsepower inline 6
Is Newcomer still playing with that cannon style front entry intake ?
I think your having issues with too much air volume and little venturi effect. I would like to see the 68 throttle body on the straight runner with a 62mm port matched spacer between it and the manifold
Awesome work by the way, this is really good data
So the stock TB makes more power where 99.9999% of jeep engines need it. Pretty cool
What software/hardware setup do you use to tune these with the stock ECU?
They’re so close it doesn’t matter
I was very much be interested in seeing what a air filter does to these tests
Be great to see Newcomer play with the Aussie I 6 turbo Barra !
Look it up ?
That tq issue with the TB's seems to be a velocity issue. They should build an ITB intake with some GSXR600 tb's (with intake trumpets)..haha.
If they could come up with a way to keep the velocity up near stock while getting the improved flow they would see much more interesting numbers.
I wonder if the cam was also a limitation for the tests.
What did you use to program the ECU?
head and camshaft with stock everything else because that would make killer torque early that would be a cool comparison
You guys need to grab a 300 i6 ford and a pair of ls 5.3 heads made into an i6 head will blow your minds, some even push 3hp/cid
Would much rather be tossing a 4.6 in my XJ than dropping the pan to replace bearings on a stock 4.0 in freezing temps & low teen windchill. I would have a permagrin & that warm fuzzy feeling even with numb fingers.
- Å fan! 👍
Ever notice that none of these Jeep engine "experts" ever modify the very common and durable 2.5L? I've been driving the same YJ with one for well over twenty years and often wonder why.
@@Future-Preps35 sure i drove the 2.5 for 3 years and it was so slow that i was embarassed whenever i took someone for a ride
Did you ever think about using a 5.2 /5.9 V8 throttle plate and welding the top of the large plenum with an adapter?
Thanks for this!!
I would like to see 6 wide bands with that homemade one.
Seems the stock parts are good enough?
I have a cherokee with a 4.6 stroker. Everything else is stock. It too much throttle response. So much it's annoying. I believe this it caused by the high air velocity caused by the stock throttle body. I believe it needs a bigger throttle body to slow down the air speed.
So if all versions nosed over at the same point, why didn't you show the first version all out? I bet it made more power out longer as well. You could see it on the screen.
I love yall calling ole boy newcomer enjoyed it Im 64 the video would say newcomer searching for bifocals lookin fer torqer wrench
I’m surprised you didn’t test a Clifford engineering intake for your 4.6 stroker.
3 Weber side drafts and (1) coil per cylinder zero deck block would blow your fruit stand over!!
Should have put the carb over the TB and ran both. I could design something like that for the extra fuel.
It would be my dream if I had the money to send my Jeep back east to him. I’d ask him to build my Jeep for a square 350 hp and torque. I like daily driving my XJ year round with some weekend fun. Someday. I could only dream of that.
Where can I find a straight comparison between a 91-6 straight runner vs a 99 up curved ? No other mods. Big flow yes for big hp is true for all engines. Low end torque is what most need.
I own a 1990 YJ with the 2,5 pussy motor , single GM throttle body, I was thinking about swapping the the intake to the one that has bigger and better ports , and just plugging the electric fuel injector boss,s (ports) and putting a 1 inch spacer under the throttle body
I should've kept the log intake and the stock throttlebody on my 96' 4.0 XJ. lol
You build a custom intake but leave the air making a 90 degree off the throttle. Why not straight flow through? Less drag means more power.
Such a small plenum volume those intakes have. Even the modded one seem small in comparison to other engines.
I wish MAP sensor was added to the graph.
Sucks that the throttle body isn't available anymore... just went to their website and they don't use that part number anymore.